Financial Stability Starts With Changing How You Think About Money

24:51So now it's kind of my husband and I are, you know, in a spot where we're not really, we don't really know what to do. We're not agreeing. It seems like a really bad time to have a baby and we just don't know what to do. Yeah. It's an awesome, awesome time to have a baby. Okay. I'm serious. It's awesome.

25:12Rachel Cruze:Yeah. And I know it's scary. it's awesome okay i was gonna say we don't ever stop anyone from getting married or having babies like the debt stuff is important don't get me wrong no no i hear you though but you're also like wow that uh that paused the plans that we were so dead set on um okay what was because it sounds like you guys were on track as you said we were we you were in quote unquote the journey before you even thought that you were pregnant had you guys estimated a calendar date when you would be debt-free when all$189 ,000 was going to be paid off? Well, my husband was using that EveryDollar app very religiously.

25:47So he was kind of more in tune with our debt payoff.

25:52Rachel Cruze:Okay. But obviously some things came unexpected, which, you know, unfortunately we had to put certain expenses on a credit card, which increased the balance again. And sometimes it just seems we We take five steps forward and then 10 steps back. Let me challenge you on that. What happened that a couple making$170 ,000 had to solve right away via credit card? Like why did we have to put something on a credit card? Yeah. What happened that popped out of nowhere that y 'all had to solve right away? We had an unexpected lawyer cost for a custody disagreement with my son and my ex-husband. Okay. So how much money was that?

26:38$4 ,000. Okay. What I would love y 'all to wrap your head around is this idea that we never borrow money, period. And here's what that means for y 'all. That means you get a bill and you say, cool, next month we're not going to send any overage to debt. And we're going to take the$5 ,000 extra or the$7 ,500 extra and we're going to pay this off next month. Okay. But changing your psychology around it, because for y 'all,$4 ,000 is not an emergency because you can solve it next month. Right? And you would have got a 30 days past due notice and a threat. Right? And y 'all would have written a check and you would have moved on with your life.

27:18But psychologically, y 'all, it feels like you went 100 steps back. Right? I agree. So saying I'm never going to borrow money again, it keeps you calm when the world throws stuff at you. because you're like, well, that's not an option for us. So I can pay you$2 ,000 this month and I'll pay you$2 ,000 next month and we'll be good. Right? You get what I'm getting at?

27:38Rachel Cruze:Not to throw a Dave story in here, Elizabeth, but I remember dad talking, and he used to say this in the old FPUs, that they would, when him and mom went bankrupt and it was like, well, right before actually, but they would draw a line or write out everything. And when the money ran out, a big red line went across the yellow pad and he was like, and I knew that X, Y, and Z creditors, and we'd call in and he's like, and I would just answer and they would just yell and yell. And he's like, I have no money to pay you. You can call me next month and we can have this discussion, but I have no money.

28:07Rachel Cruze:Like, it was that, like, I know people are going to be pissed and people are going to threaten and whatever, whatever. But we are not borrowing money. And so it does. It forces. You just slow down. Yes. This kind of extremeness. And then what I think it does to Elizabeth in some cases forces some level of creativity where the credit card, there's no, you know, that's not creative. It's just sitting there and you can just use it. Right. But it's actually like, oh, crap. Well, is there something we can sell? Could you do X, Y and Z over time? Right. It actually forces you to come up with solutions.

28:39Rachel Cruze:And so there's a there's a mentality there that John is spot on. Can I ask you a question, Elizabeth? And I want you to say, no, you've missed the mark completely and I'm all good. OK. Is there any of this with the divorce from the past? quote unquote and I'm saying this in air quotes your student loans and now quote unquote you're pregnant are you feeling some guilt here because if you are I want you to let that go yeah I don't really feel guilt as much because don't get me wrong I used to be a compulsive spender so I've been able to pay off like 70 ,000 in credit card over the last couple years oh my gosh awesome So my husband is really kind of because he is very, follows Dave Ramsey to a T, listens every day, wants to follow the steps.

29:27And I'm kind of adjusting my way into this. And now we're at this point where we were getting on a little, you know, we're going on our journey. And then all of a sudden something gets thrown into it that kind of we don't really know how to navigate it. Straight through it.

29:44Rachel Cruze:Yeah. And Elizabeth, he'll know this if he's like an avid listener because we talk about this a lot, that when you are pregnant and you are specifically on baby step two, you're paying off debt because if you're doing it, you have$1 ,000 and that's it. But if you are expecting a baby, we call it stork mode where you do want to put cash aside to have a bigger emergency fund during this. And some people have a dollar amount they go to and they go back to the baby step. Some people just take the whole pregnancy and just stockpile money. And then when baby's here and you're good and baby's good They take all that money and throw it at the debt And just pay off a ton, you know, within that next month So depending on what you guys want to do But I will tell you, you guys need some savings, though For this pregnancy Yeah, we only have the$1 ,000 in our emergency fund right now So that's going to be your goal, I think And you guys can, again, you can pick a number that you want to have Or, you know, again, or you just say, yeah Between now and the rest of the year We're just going to stockpile money on the side we're good with that and then you press play to pay everything off you just have to promise you will not go buy a brand new minivan with fifty thousand dollars yeah even my husband is like maybe we should sell our car maybe we should do this i'm like okay let's i don't get some back i don't think it's as dire as you think it is even close i think this was just an adjustment to your picture that y 'all had yeah but hey if he could get 23 for the 17 000 car sell it and go buy a 5 000 i think 17 000 wait right i mean there are some moves elizabeth you guys can do uh to make some big progress.

31:09Rachel Cruze:But I could tell you from a lady that's been pregnant to a lady that is pregnant, having some cash above a thousand is going to be going to bring you some peace. And then I think that's going to put you more on that journey to pay this off and attack it. But I'm glad you guys are working together. And yeah, and that you're quote unquote, adjusting to the Ramsey way. I like that.

31:56And listen, we're living in a world full of nonstop noise. All the screens, the comparison, all these notifications that are always going off, our bodies are on high alert all the time. And we're communicating with everyone and everyone's trying to communicate with us, yet we're not connecting with anyone. And we all feel anxious, lonely, and more overwhelmed than ever. This stress shows up in our relationship, shows up in our sleep, it shows up in our health, it shows up right in the middle of our chest. We were never meant to have this much information and this much communication and especially, we were never meant to carry all of this alone.

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33:13Rachel Cruze:All right, let's go to Jim in Phoenix, Arizona. Hi, Jim. Welcome to the show. Hi, thank you for taking my call. I have a question for you guys. I've been working the baby steps. I went through a divorce about five years ago, racked up some debt, and I am about a month away from being able to pay off the last of my consumer debt. Oh, wow. Congratulations, Jim. Thank you. And, you know, now that the light is kind of at the end of the tunnel, my ex-wife just notified me that she's moving out of county. It's about an hour and a half away, one way. We have 50-50 custody right now. and her plan is to commute the kids back and forth um which it's not really going to work that's a lot of time for them to spend in a car every day and so I've been looking for legal advice and every attorney I talk to wants a retainer you know I have my thousand dollars and I just don't you know they're all telling me they accept credit cards I don't know how to pay for this I don't know how to navigate it.

34:22I don't feel like it's, it's not like I'm buying a new car or something. I just don't know what to do.

34:28Rachel Cruze:Yeah. Yeah. I, I, I would let them know your situation and how long would it take you to get 5 ,000 bucks? So right now I, I've been saving about a thousand dollars a month. Okay. That's been going towards your debt. It's all been going towards the debt. Yep. So you have about a thousand dollars. Okay. How fast is she going to be doing this move? Do you know? Yeah, it's going to be within the month. School is just ending. Yeah. And she's also quitting her job to live with a live-in boyfriend and requesting an increase in child support. Yeah. The best option I could give you is to sit down with an attorney and say, kind of tell them what you're doing.

35:14and that you're, I mean, literally say the words, I'm paying off my debts for my last thing from my, I'm on the Ramsey plan. And most of the time they'll roll their eyes or they'll laugh and you can say, here's my pay stubs, I'll get you paid. But this is time sensitive. But man, I mean, I'm just telling you as a dad, I would go to the ends of the earth to keep this from happening. So as a guy who's sitting in the Ramsey chair right here, I wouldn't beat you up if you went over to a credit union to pay that I can't tell anybody to borrow money Just because it's got so many downstream consequences But someone's trying to break the law and take your kids And there is an entry fee to that Because I know every state is different, right?

36:01Rachel Cruze:But county to county, you can't do that, right? I mean, is she violating the divorce decree? So the divorce decree did say that we're not supposed to move out of county without notifying the other parent, which she did. And it's not so much that she's an unfit parent. It's just that that's a huge burden to put on the kids, especially with moving. One of them's in high school and the other one is starting junior high school. Yeah. Would you be willing to take 100 % custody? I would be willing. Yes. Okay. Because I'm just wondering when you get a lawyer on your side, is there going to be something that they can do you know what i mean or or like is it in you know the divorce decree that it's like well there's nothing there's nothing legally that you can do yeah or is there that's my question originally we had agreed on custody so that part of it was was pretty amicable during the divorce but now it just doesn't seem like a real a real possibility with that much distance between us sure do you have anybody um and i'm always again i i live in such a gonzo world brother that that most of the people I sit down and talk to, whether in my personal life or on my show, like it's because they're in a tough season, something bad has happened, but man, there's the data on live-in boyfriends and kids is no bueno, right?

37:19Um, so you would have a case to

37:21Rachel Cruze:fight it, what you're saying. I would, I'd fight it to the ends of the earth. Um, when you've sat down with attorneys and discussed them taking you on, have they told you you have a shot or not? most attorneys will be honest with you. I have been told that they think I have a really strong case, and that's immediately followed by we need$5 ,000 now and another$2 ,000 in 30 days. Yeah, that's usually what I hear is a$5 ,000 retainer. Do you have a friend that can write a letter just to stop the move at this point or no?

37:52No, she's actually already moved most of her stuff. I was sort of the last one to find out about it, except I had a heads up from the kids. okay uh and so have you told her i'm gonna go fight this in court i haven't she she expressed that she wants to try to do it outside of court but provided that she gets an increase in support yeah but she's i mean she's trying to hold you hostage and that's not going to fly yes um yeah she's living in a fantasy world are y 'all able to sit down and have coffee actually you know what i wouldn't do that i would send i would send it via email i would keep all my communication and writing um but i would let her know the terms or and i would put what she has asked you for you're trying to get a an increase in in child support for to trade an increase in child of money for me to have time with my kids and i reject that and you didn't give me due notice of when you're moving out and I'd like I would put all that in writing and let her know that you're contacting an attorney and to hold tight okay um yeah yeah

39:02Rachel Cruze:you're not crazy brother no and especially when it comes to our kids it's like a child that's sick or something you're going to do whatever you can to help your child right I mean like there's there are those moments um yeah so I would say fight the fight the only if there was a um a word of caution and it's only because we've seen and taken these calls on the other side that people fight in court and specifically with divorce not always just custody things and it's and it's a four long four year long thing and they pay you know hundreds of thousands of dollars out and they end up losing at the whatever it is right and there's like there can be an endless cycle in the legal world with fees and attorneys and if she's quitting her job and ask and moving into somebody with somebody has no rent and asking you for an increase she doesn't have any money either does she no she she will have none and she's going to be totally reliant on this guy that she's not married to and i wonder what happens the first time they have a fight of course 100 yeah and it's not a stable home for your kids of course and you know that but she doesn't have five hundred thousand dollars to fight you to keep you in court is what you mean yeah yeah that's a good point so her family does have money and i've had people tell me you don't need an attorney for this you can do this on your own and that was my plan initially but i realized i'm so emotionally like involved in this i just don't know if that's a good idea or not to try to do it on my own i i i just know too many trust i know too many of my personal friends who've gotten burned trying to do things on their own and i know too many um great attorneys who make it their life's a mission to take care of people in your exact situation someone who's getting taken advantage of and the kids are the fulcrum of that of that taking advantage and man they just make at their life's mission to make sure kids are taken care of.

40:45And that's what you're trying to do here. I don't even hear one ounce of vindictiveness in your spirit. I hear you want to take care of your kids. Just so sad, yeah.

40:53Rachel Cruze:Jim, do you think if, I mean, now I'm just, I feel invested in this story. If you push her from a legal standpoint or if you chose outside legal counsel, would she give you majority custody, do you think, to keep the kids close to their school and from a lifestyle perspective? Or do you think she'll fight you on that? I think it's money is her motivation right now. And I don't even want anything from her. I just want the kids. Yeah, absolutely. But it doesn't make any sense that she's trying to bargain with her kids and try to give you more time with them, but she wants money. Like that doesn't even make sense.

41:30Yeah, and the kids have also expressed to her that they don't want to go there and she tells them she doesn't care. Yeah, of course. Yeah, brother, I would sit down with an attorney with somebody that you've got some friends or colleagues that have used in the past that has a good reputation for being trustworthy. And not just trustworthy that they're going to fight for you, but trustworthy they'll look you in the eye and say, hey, brother, I don't think you have a case. And the best attorneys I've ever sat down with have said, I don't want to take your money because you're not going to win here.

41:56And I always really appreciate that. But yeah, again, I'm just telling you dad to dad and Rachel's a parent. Like we'd go to the ends of the earth for our kids.

42:04Rachel Cruze:For sure. And, Jim, I think it's so wise on your part, so self-aware to be like, I'm so emotional right now that I don't think I could probably make great decisions. I need help. I need someone. And that's what we talk about. It's like, where can you outsource people that you trust to help you in situations, financial and otherwise? Yep. I'm assuming, by the way, I'm assuming that you're working this Ramsey plan to a T and that you've sold everything you can sell. if I had guitars if I had a car in the garage if I had a writing I'd sell everything I had to avoid going into debt but yeah Jim you're a good dad you're a good man brother call us back if you need us but we'll be praying for you guys and pray that it works out for you

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44:15Rachel Cruze:Welcome back to The Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union Studio. I am Rachel Cruz hosting with Dr. John Deloney this hour. So give us a call at 888-825-5225. All right, let's go to Daniel in Los Angeles. Hi, Daniel. Welcome to the show. Hi, how's it going? Hi, doing great. How can we help today? Question. I'm 54. My wife's 53. You need some help here. We want to buy a home. Business is bad right now. Got about$31 ,000,$32 ,000 in debt. Income's not coming in the way it used to come in. Um, and so we're just looking for some hope, you know, being 54 and 53, um, we really want to buy a home and be able to retire with, with some wealth.

45:08Yeah. And, um, what do you do for living? It's really tough right now. I'm in the commercial truck business. I sell commercial trucks and right now it's, it's slow. Um, typically it's a very, very, very good business. I'm talking about making over$300 ,000 a year, but right now I'm at a, about 108, um, after taxes, I mean, before taxes. and it's really expensive to live in LA, California. And my outgo on a monthly basis is about$8 ,000 a month. Towards what? It's expensive. I'm sorry? What do you spend$8 ,000 a month on? uh car payment uh rent um life insurances for uh being my wife my daughter uh car insurance fuel um food um all the household necessities it's about it equals about eight grand a month what's your total what's your total debt load uh 31 32 just on credit cards no no what's the car is it is it 32 it's all just in car it's uh 28 in car and then a medical bill that's about three thousand dollars right now okay if you sold your car what would you get for it private party oh i have no idea it's a 2023 dodge durango okay i have no idea to be honest i think we checked i think i don't know to be honest with you i've never checked okay probably you're probably upside down on it yeah i i think we are and um i know things are going to turn around with commercial truck business but um it's just bad right now you know yeah well yeah let me ask you that is is there talk in your industry is there writing on the wall here or is it just with all the stuff going on overseas and the the every every business i know is talking about how ai is going to impact them and gas prices is that what's is that what's contracting your business right now It doesn't affect us.

47:10I mean, we're, you know, we deal directly where it's, it's, um, I do directly with businesses, with business people. Um, it's just the market right now. It's just that coming out of COVID, it's been really, really bad. Um, but that was, that was five years ago. Yeah. And that's what I mean. Since coming out of COVID, it's been really, really bad. It's during COVID, it was really, really, really good. And we just haven't been able to turn around. You know what I mean? I do have my customers that call me. Here's my big question then. as a 53 year old what I don't want you doing is waking up and being 58 and saying it's going to turn around when you had a chance at 53 to sit down with your wife and say hey we have some hard choices to make A.

47:51Do we have to live in one of the most expensive places on the planet and not only is expensive just to live there but then they also take half your paycheck every month do we want to stick in this business and keep riding it out,$108 ,000. So if you're at$108 ,000 in the middle of Q2 or at the beginning of Q2, you're going to end up at$200 ,000 for the year. That's still a great salary. It's just an adjustment from what you were making. No, no. It's$108 ,000 period for the year. Oh, for the year. Yeah. So you've lost two-thirds of your salary. Well, the thing is, I moved from the old dealership I was at.

48:25I'm in a new dealership managing it, the commercial department. And so I required them to give me a guarantee of $12 ,000 a month for the first six months and then the remaining six months after that$6 ,000 a month. And then, you know, above that, my commission, a percentage of what I require. But here's what I'm saying. You're a good salesman. And if you know how to be a good salesman and you know how to lead salesman, you're going to have a job anywhere. But your job and your particular thing that you're selling, you're going to be down two-thirds. And if you've been struggling for five years, I'm just telling you, as a guy, you're older than me, but not by a lot.

49:00Rachel Cruze:The hope is decreasing. Yeah, it's a time to sit down and have a really hard conversation and say, do we want to move to Texas where we don't have any state income tax? We're going to move to Tennessee or Nevada somewhere. It's very hard to do because we have a special needs child. That's what I'm asking. That's what I'm asking. Who lives with my in-laws. Who lives with my in-laws. They've raised them. My wife, when she was there, she was irresponsible, didn't take care of her son. My in-laws are aging so bad. They still watch him, but eventually, probably in about a year or two, they're not going to be able to watch him.

49:30Rachel Cruze:So Daniel, so I think what's hard is what John's saying is if you keep doing what you've been doing, you're going to keep getting what you've been getting. And you just don't want to look up three, four, five years down the road and you're in the exact same position financially where you're not able to buy a home. And so if our goal is to get our head above water financially, if our goal is to be homeowners, if our goal is to retire with dignity, then at your age, you guys got about 10 years, right? 10 to 15, depending on if you can work even longer, to say we got to figure this out. So if there are some non-negotiables, that's fine, right?

50:11Rachel Cruze:There's a non-negotiable we're not going to move, is what I just heard you say. So as much as John and I would convince you to X, Y, and Z, you're like, nope, we're not. Okay, then what are some other negotiables? I mean, I tried doing Kelly Blue Book for you, Daniel, and it made me enter my email and all this stuff. I didn't know how many mileages were on your Durango. I was like, dadgummit, I wish I could find the price for you. Because honestly, the last six months or so, people calling on the show, unless you rolled over negative equity, we actually are seeing some people are like, no, I owe$23, but I can sell it for$30.

50:39Rachel Cruze:I mean, you may be, I don't know, but look and see, hey, if I am even$3 ,000,$4 ,000 underwater, you can go get a loan for$8 ,000 at the credit union, sell the car, go buy a$4 ,000 car and get rid of$28 ,000 of debt. Like there's some moves you can make that can be very significant for you guys, Daniel. I mean, you guys are paycheck to paycheck. And a car payment freed up is what? How much do you pay on the car per month? 800 bucks. Yeah. 803. That's pretty nice to get that back in your pocket, wouldn't you say? Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, it would. Yes. And Daniel, think about this. I'm going to round the math off.

51:17Okay. Can I add something? Yeah, go for it. I am extremely good at what I do. I mean, very good. Of course. But right now it's just bad. However, and this is not, it's kind of sad. I mean, obviously we had Eaton fires here a few years ago in California, and that's going to start picking up the market because of the fact that contractors are buying trucks and vans, you know, because they're going to start rebuilding. So I know that will affect the business in a positive way, but I'm just so frustrated, angry. Okay, but you've got to act. You got to act. All right? And so, like, I can't motivate you.

52:00You have to decide. You want a different kind of life. And let's run the math out. I'm going to round the numbers off. But let's say you work for 15 more years and you make$100 ,000. You're going to have$1.5 million. $750 ,000, and that's going to go to the state of California. And$750 ,000 are going to be in your pocket to spend how you want to. If that's okay with you, then so be it. What are y 'all going to do with that$750 ,000? I don't want that. I want more. Okay. And Michael Phelps is a great swimmer, but if I throw him in the middle of a raging river, it doesn't do him any good. You can be the best person at your job, but if the market's gone, the market's gone.

52:39So take those skills and have the courage to go somewhere else. You only have hard choices ahead of you. Make the hard choices that are going to get you where you want to be, like sell the car, like reduce spending, like get a new job possibly.

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54:32Rachel Cruze:Next up, we have Cecile in Augusta. Cecil. Cecil? Cecil, I'm so sorry. Yes. Hello. Hey, what's up, man? It's okay. Cecile, can I just say, can I defend myself for not reading it correctly? Rachel read your name as Cecile. Because I literally was just having dinner with friends and their daughter. That is her name. And so we were talking. So when I saw it, I just went to there. I'm sorry. Forgive me. It's cool. Cecil, I'm glad you're here. Cecil, I'm sorry. You're a dude from Augusta. Hooked on phonics did not work for Rachel. I'm talking to you. I got it. Whatever. So what's up, brother? So recently I've had a very large string of unfortunate situations.

55:20My income has gone down drastically and my expenses have gone up drastically. And I'm just drowning and I don't know what to do. So what happened with your income? um so i did a lot of side work on the like doordash as well as i did a lot of just hanging and help people in my area and recently with the gas prices and other things i had to slow that down. Okay. And as soon as I slow that down and my income starts getting lower, as well as some changes at my primary job where my income dropped significantly.

56:06Rachel Cruze:What happened there?

56:11Rachel Cruze:Oh, hey, Cecil, can you speak directly into your phone? Maybe step to where we can hear you a little bit better. Cutting out a little bit. Okay. I had to take a class for my work, and I get a differential based on the weekends, and my income went down by maybe$800 every two weeks. Did you fail the class? No, I passed the class, but the class isn't going to upgrade my income at all, and I'm out of it now, but that led to the downgrade. Just while you were in the class, but now you're out of the class. Can it go back up$800? It has gone back up$800, but the rest of it has gone down, and also my car has gone out, so I can't even do the sides even a little.

56:58Okay.

56:59Rachel Cruze:What do you do for a job? I work as a CNA. As a CNA? Like a nursing assistant. Oh, okay. Okay. A certified nursing assistant. My guess is that there's a market for that. Could you go get another job somewhere else? Unfortunately, not without my car. I have rides through my weekends because I only need a certain amount. I pretty much work 17-hour shifts Saturday and Sunday, and then just one eight-hour during the week. Okay, what are you doing the rest of the week? The rest of the week, I am doing schoolwork. I am in college to change my career into accounting. Okay. How much school do you have left?

57:52I just started. Okay.

57:53Rachel Cruze:How old are you? I'm 21. Okay. I don't think you can afford to go to school. I think you have to be working 40 hours a week. Yeah, you just got to pause, brother. Or you go at night, and it takes you a little bit longer. But you got to put the hours. And I know you're putting the hours in on weekends, but the formula you have laid out for us and what it sounds like is without door dashing or having a side hustle, you're not able to pay your bills. Is that correct? I'm able to pay my bills, but the problem is my car has gone out. Your car has gone out. Okay. What does that mean with your car went out?

58:35I'm a mechanic also on the side, and it's something that I don't even know. It's a head gasket leak But there's also something else going on Have you gotten an opinion? Yes I have gotten a couple

58:49Rachel Cruze:How much have they quoted you? Anywhere from Three grand to six Three grand to six Okay

59:01Rachel Cruze:And you don't have a car right now Is what you're saying? No And it's not running at all It's done it's done i can't even make it anywhere how much money do you have on the side if you're making all your payments and stuff how much money do you have saved up i don't have anything saved up i had a string of separate emergencies from health care okay um yeah i mean what i mean i i mean at this point it's it's extreme enough that i'm like all right Do you move in with family To save on rent Or do you Uber to and from Bring in a roommate, Uber to and from work From nursing, it's going to cost you your first Hour of work there and your first hour of work home But that's six hours in between And if you're working 60 hours a week You know what I mean Like you could This will shift pretty quickly I just think you're just trying to do too many things at once And you're not able to get ahead And so something has to give right now So I would do, if you can do school at night don't go into student loan debt though but if you're able to cash flow it through school do it at night or press pause on accounting for now get your head above water get an emergency fund get a car that is running and then out of a place of strength make a change in a career or to you know for school but it doesn't sound like you're in a place to do that you need to be working 60 to 70 hours and again yep if that's an Uber to and from until you save that.

1:00:34Rachel Cruze:It may take you a month or two. Or to pay a coworker five bucks to come pick you up and drop you off or whatever, pitching on gas or something. Yeah, absolutely. And Rachel, we're getting calls a lot over the last six weeks, maybe the last three or four months, where people want a certain thing to be, and it's not. And I've been there myself, you've been there. I want so badly for the car just to turn on. It's not. or i want so badly to get a degree and get out of this current job i'm in but i can't or i want this but this is reality and i feel like so many people right now across the country are just stuck they were living such thin margins and suddenly student loan payment kicked in or suddenly the gas prices went up just past where they could keep floating there exposes everything yeah or their jobs are cutting back hours or they can't they just got a degree and ai has taken away the first bottom layer of hiring and so they can't even get into a position.

1:01:35The reality is if you're faced with what I wanted to be true isn't anymore, the longer you stay there, the more anxious you get, the more depressed you get. That's just your body trying to take care of you. And man, Rachel, if I could tell people one thing, it's just take action. Just take a step in a direction towards I've got to stop going to school. I don't want to. Grieve it. Grieve it like crazy. or I've got to take on a third job or I'm going to have to start asking people for rides and I hate asking for anything or I've got to start Ubering to work. It's going to cost me an hour and a half of my workday to get there and I don't have to get back.

1:02:09Okay, that's what I've got to do right now or I've got to move in with family for a season and I'm embarrassed that I have to do that. But delaying what is real, what's right in front of you for I wish it was different doesn't get you anywhere closer. And in fact, what we're finding is it's just putting you further and further behind.

1:02:25Rachel Cruze:Yeah, absolutely. And I think acknowledging the outside factors are very real, right? The changing job market, very real. The housing market, very real. You know, you could plug in the gas prices, right? I mean, like you can plug in external factors that are happening. But, John, the people we see that are winning, and we're meeting them in the lobby. We have a great audience today. They've shared a little bit of their stories. You know, when we have a caller on the debt-free stage, you know, doing their debt-free scream, Like I will say the common denominator with people and they don't always get there the first day stuff starts happening.

1:02:59Rachel Cruze:But the common denominator of people changing their lives is realizing I'm the answer. External factors are going to happen. Things are going to happen that we can't control. Right. That is we became good friends. I feel like you started here around the pandemic during COVID. And I remember you would say it all the time, like control what you can control. During that time was a strong message. But it still rings true today of like things are going to happen. You guys, the external factors are real. Maybe you started out in student loan debt and the person next to you didn't because their parents paid for whatever it is, right?

1:03:25Rachel Cruze:Things are going to happen. But it's the people that look up and say, you know what? I'm in charge of my future and I have to make decisions. I have to choose things that I don't maybe not want to do. I don't want to work the extra job. I don't want to sell the car. I don't want to. But I'm going to choose to actually do something to the action, put it in the action and actually start to see things shift. And so it's up to you guys. It really is. And those are the people that win, John. Those are the people that call us and you're like, like we're debt free or we're almost out of debt, but you know, this is happening, whatever it looks like.

1:03:56Rachel Cruze:But it's beautiful because you start to see that shift and you can feel it in their tone. Get to reality as fast as you can and take action.

1:04:19Rachel Cruze:Okay, guys, let me ask you something. What would it take for you to switch your bank? Because if you're still earning next to nothing on your savings, you need to check out Fairwinds Credit Union. And I know what you're thinking. It might sound like a hassle. Moving your direct deposit, updating bills, getting a new debit card feels like a lot. But here's what most people don't realize. Staying where you are could be costing you hundreds of dollars every year. Y 'all, the average savings account pays less than half a percent. So let's say, for example, you've got$20 ,000 saved. You might earn around$70 a year, but with a Fairwinds high-yield savings account earning 3 % APY or more, that same money could earn you over$600.

1:05:01Rachel Cruze:And that's real money that you can use towards the baby steps. So don't let temporary comfort keep you stuck. Check out the Smart Bundle from Fairwinds Credit Union. You get a high-yield savings account, a no-fee checking account, and the Ramsey Be Weird debit card. Go to fairwinds.org slash Ramsey to learn more and make the switch today. That's fairwinds.org slash Ramsey, insured by the NCUA.

1:05:46Rachel Cruze:Buying or selling your home is a big deal, and you want an expert in your corner fighting for you to find the best deal possible for the right price. The Ramsey Trusted Program is the only way to find a top agent that you can trust who will make your home a blessing, not a burden. And it's easy. Just compare agent profiles, interview them, and choose the right ones to work with. To find a Ramsey local trusted real estate pro for free, go to RamseySolutions.com slash agent or click the link in the description if you're listening on YouTube or podcast. All right, let's go to Gerald in New York City.

1:06:21Rachel Cruze:Hi, welcome to the show. Hi, how are you doing? Hi, we're doing great. How can we help? First of all, reality, what a concept, right? Who would have thought? Who would have thought we'd make a job out of it? I have a shirt. I have a shirt that actually says that. uh funny so i have i'm retired 63 still um i'm set uh house is paid for no cars are paid for no debt i have a pension social security my wife still works uh so our investments are i'm working with fidelity and the broker wants us to because i i made the mistake of saying that we don't plan on touching anything for at least 10 years. And he, he thinks we should be in a hundred percent.

1:07:10And that's, that's really my question is, is, is it wise to really at where I am in life? And I did all the right things in life. And I'm okay. And, uh, on top of that, I should also say this. Um, so I have like 450 ,000 in cash and, uh, and he thinks we should put, but at least 300 of that into the market as well. I'll let Rachel talk about money. My first red flag is anytime you're having a relationship with a professional, whether it's an attorney, whether it's a tax person, or whether it is an investment professional, you should never think I made a mistake of being honest. That to me is a big red flag.

1:07:58If you can't sit down with your investment professional and say, here's what I want to do, and here's what I'm thinking, of course you pay them to give you their opinion and their perspective, but they work for you, right? And if you feel like, oh, man, I shouldn't have said that to them because now they're going to try to snake my money or get me into some high risk, something or other, man, I would say walk out that door and never go back. That's just how I'm perceiving it. Again, reality, what a concept. That's not reality. That's just how I'm perceiving it. Well, I think, I mean, you've done well for yourself financially and you've done well for yourself professionally.

1:08:34You're still married. So I would tell you that your gut is probably a pretty good, got a pretty good BS meter on it.

1:08:41Rachel Cruze:How much you have with him right now? Yeah. A little under$600 ,000. Okay. And what is it invested in right now? it's i was at 60 40 and i just bumped it up because i literally just met with him and i 60 40 meaning what be more specific when you say 60 40 what what do you well i guess so so uh 40 i guess more in in the bonds and the safe things oh okay okay and what does he have you in in stocks is it now like index funds etfs what is it yeah more index funds index funds okay it's all fidelity stuff i'm letting them manage my money so they are definitely charging me for that i am quite aware of that there is right well i mean i do the same thing yeah yeah well what's um when i'm running these calculations um what's crazy is if you just left if you if you had transferred the 40 % yes.

1:09:47I would not recommend having money in bonds and CDs. I have zero dollars in bonds. Unless you're a 98 year old and you're like it just makes me sleep better at night.

1:09:56Rachel Cruze:I'm like that's great whatever at that point but you're a young 63 and so I just did a quick calculation if you had that 600 ,000 and you just left it alone like you said maybe use some of it but just what what it could grow to by the time in 25 years, it'll be 7.2 million. If you went quote unquote aggressive, meaning it was just in the market, which isn't even necessarily aggressive. You could do more aggressive type funds. But if you are, if you're just in, you know, the S &P 500 and index funds and all of that, like it's, it's pretty wild where it will grow. And CDs, some of them, depending on the rate, won't even keep up with inflation.

1:10:35Rachel Cruze:So I'm with him. I would not do 60, 40. I'd do 100%. And then to the... Yeah, which is what they were saying. I would do. That's what I do. That's what... I mean, that is... Dave's a little bit older than you, and that's how he does his. Yeah, I'm not telling you anything different. So I would... I'm just glad Dave's not here today, because I would have been nervous talking. I know. He would have been proud of you, Gerald. You've done so well. Yeah, you've done great. You've done so good. Okay, the four... I've worked my whole life, but it doesn't mean I don't have fears. No, it's fair. I'm scared of him, too.

1:11:05I'm with you.

1:11:07Rachel Cruze:My question is, Gerald, if you guys don't really necessarily need to touch that money, is that because your wife still plans on working or you guys can live off Social Security? I have a pension and Social Security. I bring in$10 ,000 a month. And my wife is still working for at least another few years. She's bringing in$2 ,500 a month. Everything is paid for. So you don't need the money is what you're saying. I did all the right things kind of in life. Sounds like you did. I did most of the right things in life. Yeah, it's great. I mean, I have a lot of cash, and, you know, I don't want to use names or anything, but, you know, I heard someone say, until, you know, our president is out of the office, I would keep cash, because cash is going to be king when everything drops.

1:11:51You can jump, jump, and then drop it, and then. I mean, we don't have a crystal ball.

1:11:55Rachel Cruze:We don't know. And nobody does. No, because it did go down after the IRA, and now it's back up and above what it was. So I'm like, no, yeah. I think that the longevity of investing takes out these weird little dips and stuff that we get because of an administration. I mean, personally. And I like cash. I have more cash than normal. And it has nothing to do with anybody in office. It has to do with I'm kind of a lunatic. Okay. So, Gerald, you got to do what you're comfortable there, I guess, with that aspect. Yeah. Sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We have probably the six months or more just in the regular savings.

1:12:33Okay, Gerald. My cash is in Amex and in the money market. All right, hold on. Gerald, let's wipe everything clean for a second, okay? Okay. If you lost all of your investments, it went to$0. And you looked up and your cash went to$0. You have a paid-for house, paid-for vehicles, a pension, and Social Security. Yes. Here's what I'm telling you that. And my wife's income. Here's what I'm telling you that. You did good. you're good okay here's what i'm hearing i'm hearing a 63 year old guy who is waking up every morning and saying what's my purpose now what do i do exactly okay and if you get up every morning and you fret over your money you're a millionaire i'm not doing that i'm not going to do that okay then you're going to have to do something you're going to have to join a bowling league or join some weird club in like in new york you're gonna have to do something right get a group of guys to go throw seed at pigeons i don't know what you do in new york but like but like listen you gotta have to get a gang otherwise you're gonna like your body will fall off a cliff and i'm being serious no you're right i work out every day i know but you work out alone job you work out alone i want you gotta get well i usually if you saw my gym you would understand why because I have a gym at the house.

1:13:55I am not – we did things right. That's all I'm going to say. I know. I'm eternally grateful. It's because of my beliefs and everything that just I feel that – I know, I know, I know. But listen, on this call, Gerald, you've told me I think I've done everything right enough. That leads me to believe you're still wondering if you did everything okay, if you did a good job. Yeah. And so I'm telling you you did a good job, and I'm telling you, you've got at least 20 years left, if not 30. and so i better be going for that 100 and stop messing around well your money yes but right now

1:14:28Rachel Cruze:you're fine financially you're more than fine if you do nothing gerald you're fine if you do nothing you do nothing you're great you're good i want you i want the next 30 years i don't want you sitting on a couch with your phone out checking internet articles and fretting over your money i I want you out having fun. Yes. And from the financial aspect, I want more bang for your buck. And I think you'd be making a tons more in the market. So I would move that 40 over. So if you did nothing, that's fine. But I think you could be way more efficient financially by being in there. So, yep, in the market.

1:15:01Rachel Cruze:And then if you want to keep on to the 450. That's a lot. That's a lot. Maybe a quarter million. Then you could scratch by, right? That's right. And then go get a gang. Go do some fun things. And you've done great, Gerald. We're proud of you. You did good. You did so good. So great.

1:15:19Thank you.

1:15:45Rachel Cruze:by Y-Refi. If private student loans are in default and you're not sure what to do next, Y-Refi can help you explore refinancing with a low fixed rate and a payment plan based on what you can actually afford. Go to Y-Refi.com slash Ramsey. That's the letter Y-R-E-F-Y.com slash Ramsey. May not be available in all states. Today's question comes from Renee in Nevada. My husband has a gambling problem and has money invested in a retirement account. How can we protect that money so he can't withdraw it? He agrees with me that we have to protect this money so he cannot access it. Can we put it in my name or another kind of account?

1:16:25He has withdrawn around$40 ,000 in the last two years, and there's about$85 ,000 left in the account. Gosh! It's a second gambling. Listen, people who care about people. Dude, I am as First Amendment guy as they come. I am a leave-me-alone guy as they come. but access to gambling is destroying families it's just destroying teenagers it's destroying college students it's destroying society we have to draw some lines there it's just it's it's out

1:16:55Rachel Cruze:of control man geez and i mean honestly from renee i mean not 401ks i mean they have to be in your specific name to get the tax benefit and i mean i guess you could talk to your if you guys have a financial advisor and have some kind of documentation that says and let but he could still log into his account i mean i i don't know there's not a way to like i mean in a trust or a living trust or something there could be some like legal loopholes but you can't take it out of your name um i guess he could possibly put you could you could come up with a password on the account yeah he doesn't have that that could be good so he can't call around and get it i rachel So I don't like, this really puts Renee in the seat as the mom.

1:17:45Rachel Cruze:And putting responsibility on her. Or as the police officer. It's in many ways gambling. So if you have an addiction to cocaine or to alcohol, one of the first things you do is you get rid of all the alcohol. And then you have to decide I'm not going to be in places where alcohol is. which it's just tough for folks going through alcohol rehab because they lose their friendship, their friends, they lose their, you know, cheers. They were places where everybody knows their name, right? It's hard. If you're struggling with disordered eating, it's a different thing because I have to make peace with food.

1:18:21I can't just cut food out. Similar with gambling, you can delete all the apps and stuff, but you have to make peace with money because that's how the world works. You still have to use it and interact with it. You have to interact with it, have some sort of relationship with it. And so, Renee, if it's a very short period of time and you're trying to step up while he's getting in rehab and he's getting help, good and great and grand. But if this is this is not a long term solution for you to become the police officer of the family finances, especially.

1:18:55Rachel Cruze:Yeah, well, that's I mean, a little bit of the addiction world. I've heard you kind of talk about this, that no one else can fix you. Like so you can put things in place that are wise and smart. But that's not going to be, yes, that's not going to solve you. He's got to go, if it's at this level where he is withdrawing from his account and he's looking at you saying, I can't stop, he needs to go to an inpatient facility and disconnect himself from the planet for 30 days or 60 days or 90 days and get the help he needs. Because this is not a long-term solution here. But short-term, I mean, short-term, I have given the password to Amazon Prime to my wife before.

1:19:32I gave her my debit card for a season. I just carried cash when I was out of control. But I wasn't struggling with gambling addiction, right? I wasn't addicted to anything. I was just being a brat.

1:19:41Rachel Cruze:And you know what? It takes a level of humility because we had a call earlier in the show about this to admit to something, right? Yeah, it's the worst. And to go get help. And I know you've probably seen this, John, more than me. I've had only a few people in my life do like true 12-step and been in it. But they're some of the deepest, most wonderful people that I know. that walk through recovery it changes you like addiction and shame feed on secrets and the beauty of a 12 step program is you walk in and you say my name is John and here it all is and you're surrounded by people who are like yeah here's us too and you realize they still like you and they don't kick you out and you realize you're not the worst thing you've ever done it's hard Ian Cron one of our friends he wrote a book and I'm sorry Ian if you're listening I can't remember the name of it but it was a little bit Everybody needs a 12-step.

1:20:31The 12-step, yes.

1:20:32Rachel Cruze:And he was like, those meetings are more like church than some churches today. Than most churches today. So saying all this to say, Renee, that your husband, if he chooses something, it just sounds intimidating. When you just said, like, go to an outpatient, I even was like, okay, yeah. But then you go back to your, and you're like, no, that's where change is. And those people that walk that change, actually on the other end of it all, I don't want to say they're like better people, but there's something different about them. That's beautiful. They've had to go. And I've known folks who've gone to multiple different rehab centers.

1:21:03It doesn't always work the first time or the second time or the fifth time. But there's something about saying I'm worth the investment in getting well.

1:21:10Rachel Cruze:Renee, I hope that that's helpful and that encouragement to you guys and for anyone out there that's hearing this. All right, let's go to Atlanta, Georgia, and we have Amanda on the line. Hi, Amanda. Welcome to the show. Hi, thanks for having me. Absolutely. How can we help? So I have a question, and maybe I'm looking for a little bit of validation with a decision. I am a single mom, and I'm wondering if I need life insurance to take care of my child if something were to happen to me. And I know the immediate answer might be yes, but my son has a trust, and then he would inherit all of my assets as well in addition to survivor benefits.

1:21:50Rachel Cruze:Okay. What was the trust from? His father's passing. Oh, okay. Oh, I'm sorry, Amanda. Okay. How much is in that trust? When it's all settled, it'll be about$600 ,000. Okay. Okay. How old's your son? Four. Okay. And then what assets do you have that he would inherit? About a million in property and... Property, okay. And retirement. Okay. I mean, when you look at that numbers-wise, I mean, you could pan it out and just think, okay, for his life, college, living expenses, to whoever's going to be taking care of him, right? I'm sure you have a will and all that in place. Is that enough? And I think you could make that decision.

1:22:42Rachel Cruze:The reason I still lean towards having some term life is, honestly, it's so inexpensive, Amanda, that it's, I think it's honestly worth it. Because if something were to happen to you so tragically, if you did have, I mean, how much money do you make a year? Between 150 and 200. Okay, so if you had, you know, a million and a half on you or something, I think when you look at a policy like that, it's gonna, it is gonna be so inexpensive that I think I would. And I may just do like a 10-year term until he's 14. Because again, that kind of gives you some runway. And the only reason I say that is I just re-upped.

1:23:30Rachel Cruze:Winston and I both did. And we're self-insured. Everything's paid off. We're baby step seven. But when we ran the numbers, I was like, it's so inexpensive that if something were to happen, it's just that extra cushion, that extra peace of mind for him. And again, you don't have to do a long-term policy and shop it around. If you go to Xander, Xander.com, Xander Insurance or, you know, RamseySolutions.com slash Xander, we've been working with them for over 30 years and they're an insurance broker, Amanda. So they will, so you type in all your info and they basically shop around all the top companies and find the competitive rates and most of them, you don't even, you don't even have to do all the, all the, what is it, like the, where they check in on you and they get, they do all your blood work.

1:24:12Rachel Cruze:Yeah, some of them, you don't even have to do that. Like it's, so it's so simple and so inexpensive that I as a mom I would sorry that's a very long answer I just want to give you my why here's what I would do it Amanda and you may have had some of this lived experience when did your husband pass away last year oh man what was his name sorry his name was Robert was he awesome yeah yeah so here's here's why I would I've sat with people whose spouse has passed away and they have, quote unquote, a lot of money, a lot of assets, but they have no cash. And they've got real estate, they've got trust, and they need groceries and gas or they need tuition payments or whatever.

1:25:00And so I like the idea of having a policy that pays out relatively quickly so that if your son is 17 and he's heading off to college, he doesn't have to worry about selling a million dollars worth of land and estate and stuff like that. he can continue on with his life and then deal with the assets later. That's my opinion. I would have it.

1:25:36Rachel Cruze:Welcome back to The Ramsey Show and the Fairwinds Credit Union Studio. I am Rachel Cruz, hosting with Dr. John Deloney. And we are taking your calls, so give us a call at 888-825-5225 to talk about your life and your money. All right, let's go to Henry in Tampa, Florida. Hi, Henry. Welcome to the show. Hey there, guys. I just want to say, when I was a delivery driver in the U.K., I would binge listen to the Ramsey and Dr. Deloney shows. Yeah. Bye-bye. Oh, my gosh. I'm very happy to say, long-time listener, first-time caller. Thank you, Henry. Well, glad you're calling in. And how can we help? Okay, so I'm 25, and I just moved here three weeks ago from the UK.

1:26:17Welcome. Thank you, thank you. I just got married two weeks ago to my amazing wife.

1:26:22Rachel Cruze:Awesome. Is she American, too, or were you guys both from, you say, England? No, yeah, she's from Florida. I'm a Brit who cannot do with heat. I would not choose Florida. I have a choice. Good luck. You're heading into the summer months. Oh, I know, I know. I'm dreading it. I'm just happy to have the air conditioning. So basically, until I get my green card in what could be about 6 to 12 months, I'm not allowed to work. So after upcoming paperwork fees, I've got about$16 ,000 in my savings. I'm just wondering how I can spread slash invest those savings to give me a decent amount of growth, although it's not coming from an income.

1:27:04I guess my first question is, man, I've heard of green cards taking a lot longer than 6 to 12 months. Do you have a good path? Yeah, six to 12 months is, of course, just the estimate, but that's based on what the processing times are right now. So it's an optimistic one, but it's what we could potentially be looking at, yeah. Well, that's us U.S. folks. We're the optimistic bunch, right? Yes. You're already drinking the tea. I love it.

1:27:35Rachel Cruze:And is this the only— I've got a lot of experience with that. Well, actually, we don't drink tea. We drink coffee. So we're drinking the coffee. Yeah, I'm sorry to hear that. Okay, so, Henry, yeah, for the investment side, I mean, are you guys wanting to use this money? I mean, you guys are newlyweds. Yeah, do you need it? Are you going to purchase a home? Are you going to use it probably in the next four to five years? Okay, in the next four to five years, yes. Currently, we're living with my now in-laws. So we're in a pretty good position in that sense. My wife's working, so that's great. And she's got savings as well.

1:28:12But I'm just trying to see how to basically build upon my own savings because I don't want to be leeching off my wife. I'd rather it be the other way around. Well, you listen to the show along, so I've got a reputation. In fact, Reddit always beats me up for I'm hard on men. But I'll tell you, I mean, man, I can't believe I'm saying this, but you've got somewhat of a pass. I mean, actually, you don't have the pass, right? But, I mean, legally you can't. But my concern for you is taking six months to 12 months. I'm not worried about y 'all financially, it doesn't sound like. You've got a place to stay.

1:28:49Your wife is working. I'm more worried about purpose. Yeah, what you're going to be doing. Oh, so when I do end up working, I'll be working. So next week I'm going to a meeting about doing volunteer work with a social media team at a church. because I do photography, videography, and editing. Excellent. I'll just be building up my portfolio until I can work. Dude, you're... Henry, we love you. I'm so glad you're here. Yes, it's awesome. We talk to so many people who are like, I'm just stuck and I don't want to do anything. And you're doing exactly...

1:29:22Rachel Cruze:And you have an excuse to not do anything, genuinely. Yeah, and you're doing exactly the right thing, which is... I want my opportunities. Gosh. That's awesome, Henry. Just sit on the side of the road with a billboard and say, you have lots of opportunities. Here, look at me. I could, I'll tell you what, I'll just, I'll set the, I'll set the billboard up because I can't deal with the Florida heat. Yeah. Sit in the shade of it. Yeah. So from an investment standpoint, Henry, honestly, because of where you guys are and the fact you're probably going to need this money, it sounds so boring, but I probably, I think I just put it in a high yield savings account.

1:29:53Yeah, I would too.

1:29:54Rachel Cruze:Because I mean, it'll grow three, maybe four, probably more like 3%, 3, 4%. And you'll make a little bit off of it. Right. But if you invested at this point, I'm nervous that you guys are going to need it. And sometimes riding out the market in less than two to three years, you don't always, you know what I mean? If the timing's off, you don't have that longevity of the growth in it, in the investment. So I know it sounds boring, but I think I would just set it in a high-yield savings account. Because I think you guys, you're so focused that I could see you guys moving forward so quickly on decisions because you're going to have the ability to.

1:30:31Rachel Cruze:and I wouldn't want it stuck in some investment and you're trying to time the market because you know you have to get it out. Okay. What do you want to work when you get this green card? What jobs do you want to have? And there's no work visa. I'm terrible with all this stuff. Well, that's what I'm wondering. What do you want to do? Just as a long-term job. Yeah. Primarily work in social media. Like I said, I do photography and videography. so yeah I'm going to be working with this social media team at this church too basically because they're a little bit behind on social media so to just get them up with I love that.

1:31:09Henry you're an awesome guy. If you're able to find even a 6 month or 12 month gig with somebody who will sign a work visa over for you there in Florida and I imagine Florida has more experience with work visas but you might find a company that will pick you up and sponsor you until you get your green card. So it's an honor to talk to you, brother.

1:31:29Rachel Cruze:Well done, Henry. All right, let's go to Raleigh, North Carolina, and we have Tyler on the line. Hi, Tyler. Welcome to the show. Hi, how are y 'all doing? Hi, we're doing great. How can we help? Hi, so I recently graduated from college in December, and I am also new to the Ramsey sort of baby steps program. Welcome to the call, brother. Yes, thank you. So when I graduated, I graduated with student loans, car payments, all that, settling up to like$105 ,000. Ooh. And yes. So between now and then, I've got it down to$90 ,000. Good for you. In the best four months. But I'm looking to see, as far as my student loans go, I work for the state.

1:32:11And so there's a public service loan forgiveness. After you work for the state for 10 years, you get all of your student loans wiped. So I know about the debt snowball and targeting the smallest thing, and that's definitely my biggest thing. So it'll be the last thing I target. My question would be once I get to – No, I wouldn't wait. I wouldn't wait. Do not wait? Okay. Here's my two reasons. One, this is me calling balls and strikes. The Fed has picked up the number of applications that they're processing, right? So there was years when I had former students who were part of the debt repayment program working with the state and They were it was like 1 % were getting picked up and everyone else is getting rejected They have increased that okay, but here's what I want you to think through number one 10 years is two elections away from now Right 10 years ago would you have predicted today?

1:33:08No, nobody would know right and so a A, who knows who's going to be in office in 10 years and what program they're going to say, I'm not honoring, I will honor, whatever.

1:33:20Rachel Cruze:Congress passes it, right? I mean, like, yeah, who knows? The second one is 10 years ago, I was two states, four houses, and three careers from where I am right now. And I would hate to have thought that I couldn't be in the seat I'm in right now because I was tied to a$90 ,000 federal repayment program where I worked, right? So I want you to be in control of your life and you're crushing this debt. Just get it knocked out. And by the way, if they decide six months after you pay it off that they're going to wipe away every student loan in the country, know that you were a person of integrity. You signed your name to a piece of paper.

1:33:58You said, I'll pay you back. And you kept your word to yourself if nobody else.

1:34:01Rachel Cruze:So the classic debt snowball, Tyler, no debt consolidation. no loan forgiveness, just smallest to largest, and you're killing it already. $15 ,000 since the beginning of the year. Well done.

1:34:21Rachel Cruze:Hey guys, Rachel Cruz here, and I love summer. There is more fun on the calendar, more time with your people, and way more chances to make memories. But you know what else there's more of? Spending. Oh, between the extra groceries and gas and camp fees and family trips, it all starts to add up so fast. And before you know it, money stress starts to steal the fun out of everything. And that is why I love the EveryDollar Budget app. Because it helps you plan your money, track your spending, and find more margin in your budget so that you can put extra cash towards the goals that matter most. Enjoy your summer without the money stress.

1:35:01Rachel Cruze:Download the EveryDollar app in the App Store or Google Play and start for free today.

1:35:19Rachel Cruze:All right, let's go to James in Springfield. Hi, James. Welcome to the show. Hi. Hello. Welcome, welcome. How can we help today? Okay, so I have a decision on the table in front of me today, and it is a job change situation. So at my current job, we do okay. Me and my wife, we make about$72 ,000 a year. We make about$17.50 an hour, and we get a$1 an hour shift differential on the weekends. But for the last three years, we worked this job with no, like we don't get any PTO, no vacation, no benefits. It's like bare bones. They actually just implemented a sick, like occurring sick time or whatever.

1:36:09What's the job, dude? In home care. We do, we take care of people. Are you all 1099? No. You're W2 employees? Yeah. With no days off and no sick leave? No, we do accumulate sick days. We can accumulate up to like 56 hours, I think.

1:36:32Rachel Cruze:But no vacation. So there's no benefits. This company has nothing for you guys. Yeah. Okay. And honestly, with where we're at, we live in a town of like 800 people. That's kind of the norm here, which is unfortunate, but it's just how it is. It is. Okay. All right. How can we help today? So I've been considering, and I got a call today, and I've got a decision put on the table in front of me on whether or not I want to take this job working in a CNC factory that do contracts for Boeing Defense, which makes me really happy because I like stuff like that. Wait, CNC factory? Yeah. I remember CNC Music Factory.

1:37:10That's one of James' favorite bands, but that's not what you're talking about? No, no, no. Okay. Like a computer parts machining. Yeah. For F-14s and stuff like that.

1:37:21Rachel Cruze:For airplanes. Very different than CNC Music Factory. Okay. All right. Yeah. Yeah. But so my big question is, is like me and my wife have been working here for the last three years. It's really allowed us to like kind of get our lives together. You know, like we're consistently making good money. You know, we homeschool our kids. So it's kind of tough for us to both work and find something that works with our schedules and stuff like that. And going into this new job, I would take a little bit of a pay cut, like close to 50 cents an hour. But I'm also, like at this job that I work now, I get overtime and stuff.

1:37:55And I would be not only losing all my overtime, but I'd be losing like five hours a week. I'd be like 35 hours a week. And I really like the idea of the change, and I'd have a set schedule. Like at this job, we don't have a set schedule. I mean, I could have Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday off, or I could have Thursday, Friday off. I could work 12 hours, four hours a day, just all over the place. And so it's kind of like, I guess the big benefit for me of the new job would be like consistency for my kids, you know, not having to get them up out of the house at 11 o 'clock to do shift change. For sure.

1:38:31Rachel Cruze:Better quality of life, it sounds like, but less hours. Yes, exactly. Is there a pathway for getting a raise? What does that look like in this company? Whenever I, this is kind of the other reason why I'm really on the fence about it. It's like anytime I try and ask about that kind of stuff, he's kind of, this guy just came in from Kansas City and bought this place. And he's been like trying to get the numbers up on it. And he just signed some long-term contracts with Boeing, which were very promising and stuff. But whenever I talk about raising, he's kind of like, well, you know, nothing set in stone.

1:39:04I don't really have a.

1:39:05Rachel Cruze:He's got to make sure that he gets his numbers up before promising anything. Okay. Yeah. The business was kind of drowning when he bought it. Okay. So is the question, is it worth the jump because it'll be a decrease in pay, but a better lifestyle from a consistency standpoint? Is that what you're asking us? Pretty much. Because right now, me and my wife, we take home on average probably 53 to 55, because I get overtime and mileage and stuff. Yeah, a month. Yep, and then how much would it be then if you took this job? I'd probably take like a$600 to$800 decrease. Okay. Is it offset by? We're also trying to pay off a lot of, like not a lot of debt.

1:39:47We don't have a ton of debt.

1:39:48Rachel Cruze:What would it feel like making, yeah, I mean, could you guys live off of$4 ,800 a month and be okay? Our gas, groceries, bills, like every single dollar that has to come out of our account adds up to right about$4 ,000. Okay. Like it feels tight, you know. Right.

1:40:12Rachel Cruze:And then what debt, what consumer debt do you guys have? We have a car loan that's about$7 ,000. Okay. Um, we have credit card debt altogether. We're about to pay two of them off, but that adds up to, I think, right around 2 ,700 or something like that. And then, um, I had, we had two vehicle incidents. I didn't want to file insurance claims because it was minor damage. So I did use a firm, which I knew I shouldn't have, but I did it and, uh, fixed one of my cars. Well, both of my cars with the parts and stuff from that. So a firm, I think I have$2 ,000 or$3 ,000 probably. All in all, I think I'm under$12 ,000 total debt.

1:40:59Gotcha. And I'm also in school right now. Golly, y 'all have a lot going on. What are you studying? Accounting. Are you cash flowing? Well, Pell Grant's paying for a lot of it. I'm out of pocket like$600 a year. Okay. Great. Yeah.

1:41:17Rachel Cruze:I would be okay. I mean, it's$12 ,000. So I'm like, if you guys, and you got 900, that realistically, right, if you're going all crazy, you know, and you're only doing what you have to do, needs versus wants during the debt snowball, just pretend that you could throw 900 at it. And if you worked extra, James, I know you would have a full work week with this, but if you went and worked weekends, could you work? Could you work for your old? No, no opera. No, okay. Okay. I might be able. Could you do home health one or two days a week? Yeah, that's what I was going to say, on the weekends. Surely they need you.

1:41:54Well, I mean,

1:41:57Rachel Cruze:maybe a possibility. Okay, so here's the thing. If you could find an extra$1 ,000 a month on top of that$900, you guys are completely debt-free by September or October. Completely. Yeah, that was the plan. Okay, perfect. So if you can find that extra thousand dollars, that would have been there if you stayed in this job. If you could replace that with something else, I think I would be okay with the move. But there's a part of me that I'm like, I think you make better money at this job. And I know it makes life inconsistent. But for another six months and then take on more overtime with that job and make more, I'm like, could you get out even faster?

1:42:39Well, sorry to cut you off. Go ahead. No, go ahead. The thing that has me pausing for you is listening to you talk about the home health job versus talk about the CNC job, your whole cadence and tone changed. You sound excited about the CNC job, but the other variable is you're going to school for accounting. So this isn't like a career move for you. There's been several jobs where I took a pay cut because it was going to get me where I wanted to go. and every time that's worked out to my benefit, but I was going to something, not from something. Right. And so for you, it sounds like you're just, I mean, home health will burn you out.

1:43:19That's a tough, tough gig, especially with a, with a, with a company that doesn't seem to care much about you outside of the workplace. And so I can imagine you wanting to just stop doing that. And you found the first ship out of that, you know, out of that Harbor. But man, if you ride it out for a couple more years, you're going to set yourself up totally different and then go do the job you're going to college to do. You know what I mean? That's kind of, that's kind of like where I'm at is like, I could take this job now, short term struggle, I suppose, but more of a path. Cause like, even when we got this job, they were like, there's no opportunity for a raise.

1:43:55The only reason we got raises was because minimum wage increased in Missouri. And that was a nightmare in and of itself. But, you know, my other option is do I just stick it out here? I have a projected – I just finished my first term of classes in like nine weeks because I'm doing like a self-paced – How long until you get down to school? September 27th probably, give or take. Yeah, you're talking a year and a half, I would say put. I know that's hard to hear, but you're taking a pay cut for –

1:44:27Rachel Cruze:Something that's not getting you where you want to go. 18 months of stability, and you're going to throw everything back up with a degree in accounting. And by the way, before I took one more class in accounting, gave them one more dollar, I would make sure in my local area there's going to be jobs for accountants that you can start working to use that degree once you get it.

1:45:08You spend hours researching before making a major purchase like a home or car, but it's also a good idea to put in the work searching for the right insurance coverage.

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1:45:57Rachel Cruze:The right insurance acts as a shield around you and your loved ones and your wallet if disaster strikes. So for our free insurance coverage checkup, it will help you figure out if you have the right coverage by giving you a personalized action plan with clear next steps. Go to RamseySolutions.com slash checkup to take the coverage checkup and find out if you have the protections that you need. I'll be biased here I think this is one of the best things that we do It's free and insurance is one of these You either have too much too little And if you just need like an overall picture you guys It really is the best so again go to RamseySolutions.com slash checkup Alright let's go to Hillary In Fresno California Hi Hillary welcome to the show Hi thank you for taking the time To speak with me absolutely how can we help Today Okay so it's kind of a Concept but I would love to get your guys opinion on.

1:46:51So I started listening to you guys about a year and a half ago, and just the contentment and joy and things that have just come from changing our mindset of not trying to keep up with the Joneses or look at what's next and all of that has just completely changed our life. And so as my husband and I are sitting down and just planning for the future, we are trying to decide how to help our kids, basically. And I recognize they're little, we don't have to make this choice or these decisions for a long time. But, you know, we're doing the 529 accounts and we live in California, so it's ridiculously expensive here.

1:47:26And just imagining what a house is going to cost once they're ready to buy and the thought of like, okay, well, we could start investing to have accounts set up to help them with that. But then I just think about my husband and I, and we're doing pretty well. And the pride that I have when I look at us and I look at my husband and the scratching and the clawing that we did for our careers and our finances. Like it was me and him and God against the world. Like we started doing nothing. Yes. And I'm just thinking like, am I robbing them? Would I be robbing them of that? Like I want my daughter to look at her husband with the pride that I look at my husband with, you know?

1:48:07But I also don't want to be like, okay, you're on your own, kids. Figure it out in this ridiculously expensive state. So we're just trying to figure out how to balance that. I've got some opinions What do you think Rachel?

1:48:20Rachel Cruze:Okay quickly two thoughts I think regardless Is if you help them With the house or not They're going to They're going to run Into some crap In their lives Regardless It may not be financial But they're going to Run into some things And I think if they Have the character And maturity Of what you're raising Them to be They're still going to be Look at each other As spouses and be like We just took on the world And it may not be a money issue But it could be something else So I think it's more The character of the person That's there And then my second thing kind of along with the characters is I would pray, because Winston and I have these conversations, Hillary, too, with our kids, that we raise them in such a way that we don't have to turn a switch at 18 years old to be like, oh, crap, now you've got to be responsible.

1:49:00Rachel Cruze:You've got to think about other people. You've got to be generous. You've got to learn that money won't make you happy. Oh, you've got to learn that stuff. You know, like that switch doesn't just flip when they leave your home. It is an act of who they are. And as parents, you walking life with them while they're under your roof and then when you launch them into the real world the prayer is they're not gonna be perfect obviously but the prayer is that they have a level of insight into money and contentment and hard work because you all have maybe um manufactured some of that while they're under your roof so that they learn and understand how to handle money um so that if they are given some financial gift whatever that looks like it doesn't ruin them it magnifies who they are So those were my two thoughts that came up, but John may have other thoughts.

1:49:44I love what you said, and I ditto everything Rachel just said. Hillary, I want you to teach them how to scratch and fight and claw. And because you're right, it's kind of like you're a professional MMA fighter, right? And you and your husband, and you going around and fighting all their fights for them will keep them from having broken bones and bruises, but they won't be tough when they face the real world. and so what is that going to look like for y 'all that's going to be different like in my house i could have bought my son a truck he just turned 16 but he worked for two years to save up to buy his truck because i wasn't going to give it to him right and he knew that years ago and he treats that truck and it's it's my old truck and i gave him a great obviously i did all the parent things right gave him a great deal and all that he loves that truck and he takes care of that thing because it's years of his life he invested in it.

1:50:39And so I want to teach him how to scratch and fight and claw. And I won't have the money to buy him a house when he graduates, right? But man, he'll have the tools in his toolkit. And so some of that is as he's gotten older, I've talked more about our household budget with him. In fact, our 10-year-old daughter, she leaves lights on everywhere, right? We just started talking about the light bill. and here's what the light bill costs. And now I'm watching her go through, now she's turning off the lights when I'm in the middle of doing something. She's like, dad, it's expensive, right? And that's a little bit far, but I want our kids to know how the world works and that way they're, I don't want to give them bruises and I don't want to manufacture broken arms for them, but I do want them to know how the world operates.

1:51:22And as their parents, whether we have nothing or we're in a season of abundance, man, they're going to know that life isn't free. and that means they're gonna not have an allowance, but they're gonna get paid for jobs. And I love hearing my 16 year old came in the other day and he's like, I need to put gas in the car. And my wife said, there's three weeks worth of dog poop you haven't picked up in the backyard, go get on it, right? And so he's like, oh yeah, that sweat equity equals gas in the truck, right? And so he's gonna learn those lessons so that when he goes out there, but you are dead on two people who get married, them two plus God plus the world, that's it.

1:51:57And the other thing I'll tell you is the data is pretty clear. The greatest gift parents can give their kids is to love each other recklessly. And that gives kids something to anchor into as they head out into the world. And so it sounds like you and your husband are doing a great job already.

1:52:14Rachel Cruze:Yeah. So I think the goal, Hillary, would be that you teach them in such a way while they're under your roof how to do things and how to have the dignity and the self-efficiency of learning work and where money comes from and all of that. so that if later, because part of our message is changing your family tree. And part of that does look like, you know, we have people on the show. And they're not going to need it when they're 70, right? That's right. So, yeah, and we've heard people that are like, I'm the last one to ever be in debt, and I will do X, Y, and Z. But I do expect them to have jobs and whatever.

1:52:44Rachel Cruze:Like, I don't know, whatever the formula is. So my goal would be, because once I talk about this, that if there is anything in the future that is given, if we pay for their tuition for college, if we pay for their wedding and they don't have to pay for their wedding. Like whatever that thing is, that doesn't ruin them, right? And if it ruins them, the character was never built in the first place. And so, yes, have the dignity of creating their own paycheck. They need to be, yes, out in the world because it's good for them. It's good for society, right, to be hard workers and all of it. I just don't want something dependent, any level of a financial gift to ruin them.

1:53:21Rachel Cruze:That would be like a character flaw. Does that make sense? Yeah, it does. And, again, they're little, but we are working pretty hard on, you know, they do chores for money and we're doing generosity and all of those things. Totally. So the gifts just kind of won't even matter. That's right. And we did 401 Dave in our house. We had to pay for half of our cars. That's what we plan on doing with our kids. John's already lived through it with Hank. Yeah, it's 401 Dad. And I love it. And here's another thing, Hillary. What I have found, besides chores and things like that, and I'll tell you, in our house, we divide up.

1:53:53There's some things that you do in our house because you're a part of this house, right? I'm not going to pay you for being a human. Yeah. And then there's other things that are jobs that either I would hire out or that I have to do. And so I'll pay somebody to do it and you might as well take it.

1:54:06Rachel Cruze:Um, Dave was always like, I don't want to create little union workers. Every sock you pick up, you expect a quarter. He's like, no, sometimes you just have to pick up your crap. But, but I'll tell you one of the greatest things I've seen, and this is something I stumbled into is my son and I started going to breakfast every once a week back when he was in fifth grade and watching him watch me tip. That's when he got the idea of money because he would watch. It started with, Hey, how much do you, how much do you want to give as a tip? And he'd say$2. And I was like, let's do more. And he would watch them, the waiter or the waitress, they would smile.

1:54:44One time at Christmas, they chased us out in the parking lot to give us hugs like him seeing in my daughter now to seeing what generosity looks like and how it's received that for whatever reason has been the biggest shape shift in that oh we can be a blessing to other people i want to be a part of blessing other people what does that mean well that means you got to work real hard so you have your needs taken care of so that you can bless like crazy and so all i have to say is there's a bunch of little things you and your husband can do um even when they're young to begin to teach them about how y 'all handle money and they're going to mirror what y 'all do out in the world.

1:55:18Rachel Cruze:Yeah. And the importance of money and where, where it is, the role it plays in your life, Hillary, which is going to be good. It's not a tactical lesson, but they're going to see the importance of it or the, Hey, it's just a tool to create a life that we love.

1:55:39All right, let's cut to the chase. It's easy to get discouraged about crazy house prices and interest rates. But when you have the right real estate agent to help you buy and sell the right way, you'll have confidence to make smart decisions. Ramsey Trusted Agents aren't just experts who guide you through buying or selling. They're people you can trust to have your back from the first call to closing day. Find a Ramsey Trusted Agent near you at RamseySolutions.com slash agent. That's RamseySolutions.com slash agent.

1:56:25Rachel Cruze:Our scripture of the day comes from Hebrews 4.16. Let us then approach God's throne of grace with confidence so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help us in our time of need. Norman Vincent, is it Peel? I don't know. Tell me, John. I don't know. According to you, it's P.L.A. You know that. Those names, they can be hard sometimes. It's Norman Vincent P.L.A. That's right. It said, empty pockets never held anyone back. Only empty heads and empty hearts can do that. Norman Vincent Peel is a famous ice skater. Are you being for real right now? No. Oh, gosh. I was going to fall for it. I'd be like, oh, I had no idea.

1:57:12Rachel Cruze:Is he an author? He's a writer? Yeah, he was a - Yeah, he's an author. Oh, he was a - James. American Protestant clergyman and an author, yes. He's a writer. Ooh, clergyman. Fancy. Do you know what clergyman is? Or as Rachel calls them, clergyman. All right. Let's head to Denise. It's not thermometer. It's thermometer. I can say this name. Denise and Houston, Texas. It's D-Nice. It's D-Nice in H-Tone. A-A-Ron. That's a great skit. That's so good. Okay. All right, Denise, we're coming to you in Houston. What's up, Denise? Hi, Denise. How are you? I guess I'm okay. No, better that I'm talking to you guys.

1:57:55All right, we got you. I was just in Houston this weekend. It's my hometown, and I love it.

1:57:59Rachel Cruze:And Denise is my sister's name, so we feel connected to you already. We got you. What's up? Okay, awesome. Well, I'm a spouse of a disabled vet that recently received our 100%. But in the interim, I incur debt, personally and business-wide. I incur about$35 ,000 in business-wide and probably about the same in personal debt. But the company I used to work for went bankrupt two years ago, so I decided to do my own business, which was a boutique. But now I think I'm ready to go back into the workforce because the tariff actually made my business, you know, kind of fail somewhat. I'm still doing it part-time, and I just need advice.

1:58:56I'm a great sales consultant So I'm a finance manager And yeah, I just need some guidance

1:59:03Rachel Cruze:Okay, and it's$35 ,000 in business debt And then you said$35 ,000 more on personal? And personal, yes Okay, what's the personal debt? Break that$35 ,000 down Credit cards Credit cards, okay And loans Was it used, were you using that on the business? Or was that just like personal? You were just using it for life? Yeah, I was using it for life while we go through trying to get 100%, you know. Yeah, where are you at on that? I was paying what I can. Like a lot of them are being default. I just recently, you know, negotiated like one or two of them. But yeah. Okay. But yeah, it's just I don't start Ubering, but I know I need to go back into the workforce.

1:59:53Rachel Cruze:Okay, but you're still part-time at the boutique, and you own the boutique, correct? Yes, correct. Okay, how are you working part-time? Do you have other workers that are there when you're not there? No, I don't. I don't. Okay. With all the merchandise and everything you have in it, if you ended up selling it or liquidating everything, do you know what you would get out of the business? Well, that's what I started doing, but then I got overwhelmed. Yeah. I paused it for two weeks because I've just been really, really overwhelmed. But I think I need to go back to trying to liquidate it and go. Because what's it making a month?

2:00:37Rachel Cruze:What does it bring in a month? It was bringing like at least six grand. But now because of the tariff and all that, maybe two. It's bringing in two grand and that's profit after your expenses and everything Okay, so you're not going in the red Well, that's profit because I paid, no Okay, so it's two grand and is that, sorry, with you working part-time making two grand with all of it If you think you went full-time, would you double that or probably not just with the amount of foot traffic and stuff because it's a boutique I probably would, I guess I just got nervous and overwhelmed and start hoovering.

2:01:19Rachel Cruze:Yeah, because if you brought in$4 ,000 a month, if that's what you made, and if that was, I mean, I guess you'd have to bring it home and pay taxes on that. Yeah, it's still not a ton. Does your husband work? I don't know. He's a disabled dad. Okay, how much does he get in disability a month?

2:01:37He got disability. He has his pension and stuff. I think about $5 ,000 or$6 ,000 when she's taking care of the other bills. The only bill that I need to pay is my car note, which is a Corolla. And what kind of set me back not just a tariff, I got into a bad car accident,

2:01:59Rachel Cruze:which set me out of work for eight months. Oh, I'm sorry. Okay. So one of the best I think actions for you guys is even the way you're explaining how you guys are paying bills in the household. It kind of sounds like he takes care of this. I take care of that with his salary, my salary, all of it. I want you guys to look more holistically and say, here are the bills of the household, regardless of who drives what car or whose credit card, whatever. As a household, here's where we're at. And as a household, here's the income that's coming in. How can we most efficiently use this household income to tackle not only the household bills, but also get us out of debt?

2:02:41Rachel Cruze:And I do wonder if there's more of a, yeah, that holistic approach might help. I don't know, Denise, because I'm wondering if you do. I probably would, yes, either look somewhere else or go full time in this boutique and see if you can make$4 ,000. Because if so, that's$10 ,000 a month you guys are bringing in, you know, if that's the case, which is not bad. That's good. And you guys can make some headway on some of this debt if that's the case. So I think you kind of have to plan out and put your business hat on and just say, OK, realistically, could I profit out four grand out of this business or more?

2:03:18Rachel Cruze:And if it doesn't look realistic because you're saying tariffs and all of this, when you look at your expenses, if it just feels like it's going to go into the red or your effort is better spent in another position, in another job, because you could double your income, right, if that's an option, then looking to liquidate everything in the boutique, yeah, what you could get out of it. So I would kind of map out those two plans, see and shop some jobs outside of that boutique living and just say, okay, what's out there for me realistically and what could I make? And I would say if I worked here full time at the boutique, could I double, triple what I profit?

2:03:57Okay. Denise, tell me if I'm wrong here. You don't fully know all the money your husband has coming in, do you? No. Okay. I think part of the scary thing for you right now is you're doing all this alone. Mm-hmm. Yeah, because I've been a single mom, I guess, all my life. Yeah. I mean, you know. And I get you've been grinding your whole life. Are you married to this guy? Yes. Okay. I would love it If you sat down tonight And said I want us to For the first time Go all in on each other And I want us to Put all of our money in one account I want us to put all of our debts on the table I want to put all of our income on the table And I want us to look at How the total picture of our financial picture And how we going to work out on our debts I guess I've never been in this position before.

2:05:04I know. I know it's scary. And I'm so used to doing it alone. And it's tiring. It's exhausting, huh? Yes. I was a single mom, but I will say my daughter is in grad school. I did so much to get her there. You did good. Yeah, you're a good mom, Denise. And I haven't, I did it almost alone, which was very important. But here's the thing. I want you to allow your husband, who looked you in the eye and said, till death do us part, I want you to allow him to love you like you loved your daughter. You're worth being loved now.

2:05:44Rachel Cruze:Yeah. And so both of y 'all fight this thing together. And Denise, hang on the line, and Christian's going to pick up. We're going to give you every dollar, because it will start walking you through the baby steps, the debt snowball. You guys get a budget together and sit down together and start mapping this out. So it's a good tool that may help start that conversation. But thank you so much for the call. John, great show. Thanks to everyone in the booth and our great audience today here in Franklin, Tennessee. And remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's The Walk Daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.