Focused Intensity Is The Only Way To Make Financial Progress

27:24Okay. Does that make sense what I'm saying? It does. Okay. So you saying, I've hid this from you. And actually, I tried to do a noble thing, which is protect you, keep you safe, not worry you. And in so doing, I created a big, big mess. And so here it is. It's on the table. You've done that. I would hug you if you were here. Most men don't have the courage to do that. What you did was brave and good and right. And now it is realizing that the healing process is going to be slower than you want it to be. and on the back end of this your marriage will be so much stronger than you could have ever possibly imagined it and you will be a man of character not only in your words but in in the actions and she will be able to anchor fully back into you and you and vice versa you get what i'm saying i do we are already seeing that already the just brokenness between the two of us which has been that's right um which has been beautiful so i appreciate you saying that and i agree and And hey, part of this is, and this is unpopular to say, you addressing what might also be an elephant in the room, which is maybe she wasn't the safest person to sit down and talk about finances with.

28:33Maybe y 'all were creating a dance where she didn't want to hear it or she wants to buy when she wants to buy. And then so you're trying to solve it and you're trying to fix it and you're coming up with a scheme over here and doing it. Who knows what the dance in your marriage is, but this allows that to all get put on the table over time. Sure. Okay. Unless you're just a terrible, terrible human, which I'm not hearing at all. These things don't happen in a vacuum. They're co-created by two people in a marriage. And that's all that has to be put on the table. And if you just run out tomorrow and sell your house, you might bandaid over the math problem y 'all have in front of you.

29:03But the problems in your marriage about trust and safety and do we both relax when we both see each other when we come home, that just gets wallpapered over and it will show up somewhere else down the road. It more magnifies it. Okay. Okay, so George is going to walk you through this stuff. My burning commentary is on this Christian financial advisor. Yeah, never talk to that person again ever, ever. Listen, God loves all of his children. They're made perfect in his image, and some of their cornbread's not done in the middle. And so what he has suggested of you dumping dirty water into another vessel doesn't actually solve the problem.

29:40Would you agree? I don't love it. What do you love about it? because you're just moving the debt around and putting your home at double risk. Yeah, you now took the only safe place you and your wife have left, and you've leveraged that. And you made it into one giant pile that's even harder to pay off with a variable interest rate. Yeah, so being underwater$5 ,000 to$7 ,000 a month. Yeah, explain what do you mean by you're hemorrhaging$7 ,000 a month? What does that mean? Well, a lot of that has to do with spending habits. So if we... Which has nothing to do with the debt. And so that's what I'm trying to get at is, are you investing a dime right now?

30:21401k out of my paycheck. And he didn't advise you to stop investing to get rid of the mess? He did. He did. Yeah. He did recommend stopping that. So if you paused all investing, you guys lived on nothing. What's your mortgage payment? $2 ,082 a month. Okay. That's not the problem here. You can keep the house. What you need to do is use this income, pause your 401k investments, make sure you're not getting a refund on your taxes. You need that money back in your paycheck. Can you live off of$3 ,400 a month?

30:56I'm just going to show you the math. If you were able to do that. If you've got math, then please show me. Here's the math. You make$90 ,000 net, right? If you stop investing, you're going to have even more, probably closer to$100 ,000 net. If you put$50 ,000 of that towards your debt, you're debt-free in two years. Ta-da! See the napkin math there? which leaves 40 or 50 to live off of. Now, I don't know if that's reasonable to have your mortgage, your four walls covered, insurance and minimum debt payments on that side. But be unreasonable for 24 months. Yeah. I think this could all be solved by you guys living like you're broke because newsflash, you're broke.

31:30So it's an easy problem to solve when you make$100 ,000 net. You can knock this out in two years without taking on more debt just by doing that debt snowball method. If you say you believe in the Baby Steps approach, try it. Try it for a year. If you don't make progress and you want to go take out more debt, then you can be my guest. But I'm telling you, man, you can be debt-free in under two years if you follow this stuff, and your marriage is going to be better for it. We believe in you.

32:09Hey y 'all, you know I'm all about keeping your budget in check, especially during the holidays. And that's why I always start my grocery shopping during the holidays at Aldi. From fresh produce to holiday favorites and charcuterie boards for parties, Aldi has it all. And at prices that will help your family save big. Up to$4 ,000 a year for a family of four. So, do what I do for my family. Shop at Aldi first to save on groceries without sacrificing quality or holiday joy. Find a store near you at aldi.us. That's A-L-D-I dot U-S. Savings based on regional analysis of Aldi versus select competitors.

32:50Prices may vary by location, product availability, and the market.

33:07The all-new EveryDollar is here, and now it's way more than just our world-class budgeting app. There's a ton of advanced features to help you make faster progress with your money, and the average person finds thousands of dollars in margin in just the first 15 minutes of onboarding. So check it out. Start EveryDollar for free today. You can get it in the App Store or Google Play. Kristen is in Buffalo, New York up next. What's going on, Kristen? Hi, guys. Thanks so much for taking my call. Sure. I just have a question that I think is pretty simple. My husband and I have paid off all of our debts, except for we have his student loan.

33:42It's the last one. It's$63 ,000. And it's an income driven repayment with a current monthly payment of zero. and we're thinking we'd like to refinance it to kind of force ourselves to have to pay it. I know that's like a weird mind, like Jedi mind trick that we want to do, but we're wondering if we're crazy, if we should just pay through the student loan lender, which two of the loans, it's one loan, but there's four small ones, two are$10 ,000, two are$20 ,000. A couple of them have 5.2 % interest and a couple have six. And with refinancing or a personal loan to pay them, the interest would be higher.

34:28So what good would refinancing do at this point? It would, I feel like it's just kind of, the loan just kind of hangs out there and we have two goals. One is to be debt free, the other is to buy a home. Currently, we know that because it's, We've been told through our mortgage pre-approval that the student loan isn't affecting our pre-approval because it's a minimum payment of zero. So we're kind of at this point where we know we need to buy a home eventually, but we also want to kind of force ourselves to not just let this loan be sitting in the background just because, even though it's accumulating interest, the payment's zero.

35:09So we have a trusted Ramsey Pro who kind of said because of our ages, it doesn't, you know, it would be okay to kind of be saving for a down payment and paying off this debt. How much do you guys make? Total about$120 to$128 a year. Okay, so this debt could be gone in a year if you just hunkered down. Yeah, we have about$5 ,000 extra a month we could be putting on this debt. So the math they just laid out is perfectly there. $5 ,000 a month for 12 months,$60 ,000. So the loan is done in 12 months. And that's without you guys. I mean, you could probably even scratch up a little more money, spend a little less, and make it happen faster, couldn't you?

35:51For sure, yeah. That's the plan, is to move through it. I'm afraid I won't trust myself. Why don't you trust yourself? Well, this loan is kind of not interfering with us. But it is. You're calling a national radio show to talk about this loan. I would say it's very much living in your head rent free. Oh, it's totally living in my head. But we're also worried what if the right house comes up and then... Listen, you guys jumped the gun trying to home shop with$63 ,000 of loans sitting on the other side. That loan isn't going away. In fact, the interest is just adding to it and that loan isn't going away.

36:27So it would light an extra fire under me to start making payments. It's not, you know,$0, not$100, but$5 ,000 a month payments on this to knock it out in the next 12 months. We definitely have that fire. I'm just worried what if something happens and I don't have that fire six months from now. It's not a soulmate. It's a house. There's going to be more of them a year from now. No, I don't mean the house. I mean the payment on the loan. Right now we have the fire. Let me say it this way. if you wait for motivation to do anything if you wait for a quote-unquote fire whatever you're aiming for you'll never you'll never get all the way there i agree with you john that's what that's kind of what i'm asking if we refinance this to our credit union no now that loan is sitting in our bank and we have to look at it every day and i think so you're trying to make it more difficult to make you more scared of it to make you pay it that's exactly what i'm trying to do that is untrustworthy person you sound trustworthy I trust Kristen I've been listening to this show for 20 years and I have been in and out of debt many times and we're finally on the right track you've been in and out to where you don't even trust yourself to pay off this debt because you go well Kristen's not the kind of person who just pays off debt and stays out of debt so here's the thing it's going to be a trust exercise you need 12 months you need this how much do you guys have saved right now not a lot we only have about 5 000 faves okay and how old are you two i'm 41 he's 53 okay picture like 10 year old kristin if you said hey one day you're going to be making 120 000 and then your 10 year old self's going to say how much money do you have and you're gonna say five thousand dollars don't you think that's wild that you guys work this hard and 60 grand making six figures and you have nothing to show for it.

38:24Well, we had a lot of debt up until recently. We finally just got here is what I'm saying. And so I'm afraid that we won't pay off our last debt. You're like at mile 22 of the marathon and suddenly you're like, I don't think I can make it. Just look behind you. Look how far you've come. You for sure can make it. It sounds like, you know what, it sounds like you're tired. Here's the math of it. You have four loans. I love that they're split up. please do not refinance into one private, more expensive loan. Because right now, in two months, that loan is knocked out. Ta-da! You freed up a payment.

38:58You only have three left. Two more months, you knocked out the next smallest loan. That's another payment freed up that you can add to the next one. Do you see that's going to cause you to trust yourself again when you see that kind of progress and momentum? I don't know. I guess so. Yes. Listen, somewhere big and bold in your home, Christmas of 2026 y 'all are going to go somewhere awesome because you're not going to owe anybody any money. And the home is just going to be on a temporary delay. It's not going to happen in 12 months. So you know what? Don't even look. Don't even doom scroll Zillow to see what could have been.

39:35Because it's, you know what? Because right now Zillow is pornography for you. It is a way to escape that feeling inside that I'm exhausted. I'm not where I should be and I got a hard conversation, I have a hard path ahead of me I'm just going to off ramp it here Pinterest is pornography right now Zillow is pornography right now talking to a real estate agent is an emotional affair right now just don't, just don't concentrate on the one single goal you have which is we're going to get to zero and we'll have done it you get what I'm saying? You've done so good. Yeah. I know that I knew this question sounded crazy.

40:19No, it doesn't sound crazy. It just sounds like you're tired and you're just like, hey, should I just take some performance-enhancing drugs for the last four miles? And the answer is no. I think it's just that we've done so much better under pressure. And I work better under pressure. And we paid off our debt better under pressure. All right, let me give you some pressure. 24 months ago, would you have bet anything politically that has happened would have happened? No. No? Okay, so in 24 months from now, good God almighty, who knows whether there's going to be no such thing as deferment anymore.

41:02I'm just making stuff up whether they're going to demand all of the interest in a lump sum payment or put you in jail. I don't know. You don't know. there is a ton of pressure on you right now okay and if you want pressure imagine there's a five thousand dollar minimum payment due on these loans or just switch out of idr completely to a standard repayment plan if you're begging for a normal payment they'll give you one we don't mean that do you yeah well you're calling us asking you said you said i don't feel the pressure because it's zero dollars okay well you can switch to a standard repayment plan where it's$400,$500.

41:43Okay. But I'm telling you, you can just imagine there's a$5 ,000 minimum payment or else someone's going to come knocking on your door. If you need that manufactured pressure in order to do this plan. I don't think you need it. I don't. I just think you're tired. I think you want a house. Yeah. And I think you're so close to the finish line here on this, on this part of your trip. And I think you're frustrated and you have some shame and guilt because of the past decisions that have led you to have this delayed dream of home ownership. And that's a very normal thing. That's not crazy. That's normal in America today.

42:16For better and worse, it's normal. And so I would put the shame and guilt down and go, we make amazing money. We're going to put it to good use. We're going to be out of this thing a year from now, and we're going to have the rest of our lives debt-free, and we're going to be homeowners one day. The Christmas present y 'all buy each other this year is to get rid of that first student loan. Love that. That's a great present for both of you. Make a little card if you want to add some finosh to it.

42:58This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. This time of year can be tough, so make sure you check in on your friends, check in on your loved ones, and reconnect with people you haven't talked to in a while. I recently called one of my childhood friends. We had a great conversation. It was awesome. The conversation was hard, but we also laughed a little bit too. It can take a little courage to just send that message or go grab coffee or even get in the car and drive across the country to reach out with a friend. And reaching out for a therapist can also feel hard, but often it's worth it. And if you're thinking about therapy, I recommend calling my friends at BetterHelp.

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44:25welcome back to the ramsey show in the fairwinds credit union studio i'm george camel joined by best-selling author dr john deloney open phones at 888-825-5225 Sarah is in Columbia, South Carolina up next. What's going on, Sarah? Hi. My question is that I am in the process of trying to leave an abusive marriage, but I have a lot of debt. And I'm trying to figure out what I need to prioritize as far as my money in order to make a safe exit. Do you all have a bunch of debt or do you have debt? Both. Okay. We do. I think right now your chief, the most important thing for you is to get to a safe place.

45:15Yeah. I physically, I feel physically safe. But, I mean, there's just a lot. I do. Okay. Then I would create your own checking account to have your check deposited into it for the time being. And we're going to go into store mode because you're going to need cash. Right. And you're going to take care of your four walls. So that means making minimum debt payments on anything that's yours. Is everything co-signed for? Are you both on each debt? So we are, let's see, the car is mine. I have a student loan. And the rest of it is like credit cards and personal loans, and that's kind of both. Well, and even if you, if y 'all, or if he quote unquote bought a car and both of y 'all's income went into a pot and y 'all paid that car off, he may have some that he owes you to help pay off your car.

46:14All of that said, that's for the lawyers to figure out. because the debts are going to get parsed out. The assets you'll have are going to get parsed out. That's the fight. Does your spouse know you're about to file? So we've had a big discussion, and it isn't really going over well. But he's aware, and I do have a lawyer. And thank goodness I have a family member that has paid my retainer for that. But yeah, he's aware. Yeah. Let the attorneys work for you. Okay. If y 'all were able to have a big conversation, which almost never happens when there's an abusive spouse, where everybody goes, you're right.

47:07Here's my piece. Here's your piece. Let's shake hands and go down to the courthouse for$300 and file the paperwork on her own and be adults. Um, but y 'all wouldn't, you wouldn't be in the situation if you weren't in an abusive, unsafe situation. So wanting that to happen, it's not going to happen. Um, Dave gave me a quote one time that I loved the moment somebody files divorce. It is now, it's now a business transaction and that's how we're going to treat it. And we're going to let the people who are trained to, um, do business transactions, which is the attorneys do that stuff. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, and I've tried that.

47:44I've tried to be as strong as possible and not engage, not engage, not engage. Yeah. And he's very emotional about it. That's right. Let your husband say all the wild stuff. Keep every text message. Keep all the emails. I'm going to take you for everything. All that stuff, fine. Your goal now is to take care of you. Do you have groceries? Do you have a place to stay? are you able to make your minimum payments? And we're going to go from there. Okay. What do you make? So I make, um, I just started a new job. I make around 120, which is a great income. And the debts that are tied to your name, either joint or solo, what does that add up to?

48:28Um, about almost 70. Okay. What's the car worth that's in your name? um i'm not sure what it's worth it has 15 left on the loan okay i'm just wondering if you get to a tight spot and you could sell that and downgrade or borrow a car from a family member for now that might be a good move to get you to some better financial footing but i love the idea of you going today creating your own checking and savings account not connected to the bank that you're currently with with your husband and starting basically your new financial life right now to protect yourself and allowing that direct deposit to go there.

49:05And like John said, just stack up cash, make minimum payments on the debt. Don't get behind on it. Don't let it go to collections. But then once the divorce settles, you'll know as the dust clears, which debts you're going to be owing on, what you could do, and you'll have a pile of cash to help you get that kickstarted. Okay. What do you do for a living? I'm a nurse practitioner. I was just thinking nurse. So his attorney, if he or she is worth their salt, is going to make a claim that he put you through nursing school and so that he should get a part of that. So all that stuff, it's not going to come out clean.

49:40It's going to be a mess. Divorce is a mess. But we're trying to get from here to there. And from here to there is don't make any wild purchases. Don't overstress. Try Try to do your best to retain your emotional sanity as he throws whatever grenade he's going to throw. So sorry you're going through this. Yeah, I hate it for you. All right, let's go out to Rachel up next in Atlanta. What's going on, Rachel? Hey, guys. Thanks for taking my call. Sure. What's your question? Okay, so my parents are aging, and they have Alzheimer's and dementia. And so we are beginning to look at, like, long-term care facilities, assisted living, that kind of thing.

50:19and we know that we're going to need to liquidate their assets in order to pay for this, right? And we have their house, they have some annuities, my mom has some stock in AT &T. And so what I really need advice on is what kind of professional would I need to seek out to help me combine all these tiny little accounts into one big account that would be liquid enough to pay for a facility? so you're trying to piece these puzzle pieces together to go okay we have all these random things out here how do we basically sell off any assets and create a cash account in like a high yield savings or money market that we can use to fund the rest of their care right yeah well the the issue that i would see is you're going to need financial power of attorney to make any financial decisions on their behalf right and so that would depend on i pretty much have that We set up a living trust.

51:17Okay. And I am one of the trustees, but the way they worded the power of attorney, basically each of my parents would have to, quote, resign as a trustee in order for me to be able to completely take over. I am working on getting them to do that, but it is a slow process because there is a lot of pride and a lot of denial. Well, do they have clinical diagnostics around their dementia? Yes. Okay, then that in and of itself may preclude them from being able to sign off. That's my fear. If they don't have the capacity mentally where they go, yeah, they can sign off on this, they know exactly what they're doing, the courts won't sign off on it.

51:57But if you have medical power of attorney, then that's when you step in to make decisions for somebody who is unable to make decisions for themselves. Okay. and it's a nightmare because you're going to find yourself trying to do the best you can to love and honor your parents well. And in their diminishing cognitive capacity, you're going to become the biggest target, the biggest enemy to them. Yeah. I hope you're wrong in that. I know, I know. I've just sat with too many people whose parents have dementia and they feel like they're getting hit on one side by insurance companies and care facilities.

52:36And on the other side, getting hit by the person they love the most, who is a scared, terrified parent watching their ability to function slip through their own fingers. And it just is the it's the worst. It's a nightmare. So it's just getting yourself. If you're married, you've got brothers and sisters, you're all stealing yourself for the coming storm. And boom. But yeah, if they already have been diagnosed with dementia or Alzheimer's, then I don't think they can even sign off on anything moving forward.

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53:52Exclusions apply.

54:07All right, John, we're going to play a little game. Where are they now? We often take calls, and then we just, that's it. We'll never talk to them again. Oh, okay, I thought you were talking about, like, one of your ex-girlfriends from middle school or something. She lives here now. No, that would be hilarious and awful at the same time. No, this is a call from Skylar that you and I took back in February of 2025, this year. And she had made some mistakes in college, moved in with her parents as a single mom. Her parents then wanted her to put a mother-in-law suite on the back of their property.

54:37She was in baby step two trying to pay off debt. I do remember this call now. So she wanted to communicate to her parents that she didn't want to go into more debt. She got an apartment, was scared to tell them. They were using her to get ahead financially. We told her, hey, you got to move out. and she couldn't afford the apartment on her own without her parents helping. So it was a very just toxic, codependent situation. She was working long hours delivering mail. She was scared. And we told her, hey, lean into the hard conversations, into the conflict. This is not forever. This is a season.

55:05We gave her some resources and then something magical happened. She reached back out and said, hey, I want to update you guys on where I'm at now. I hope she doesn't call and be like, you ruined my life. That's always my fear. I'm hoping we've got good news from Skyler. How you been, Skyler? I've been great. How are you guys doing? Good. Good. That's a relief to hear. Okay, so what is the update? Did you end up moving out? I did. So I had the conversation with my parents, and I pretty much told them, I was like, I can't afford to put a mother-in-law suite on the back of the property. They pretty much were like, they were just trying to think of a way to help me have my own living space and pretty much be independent while also being close enough to help me with my son.

55:49is what the conversation boiled down to. But I found a cheaper apartment, was able to move out. Good. And I'm actually teaching now. Wow. You have a full-time gig, huh? Oh, yeah. Making more money? About the same. Okay. And how is single mom life going? What's going on with the kiddo? It's better. I'm able to get him into elementary school near the high school I work at. And so I could drop him off in the morning. I get to pick him up after school. I get to spend weekends with him, which before when I was working with the post office, I got lucky to see him maybe an hour or two before he went to bed.

56:28Wow. And I didn't see him in the morning. You got your whole life back. It's amazing. Oh, yeah. All right. And I got a boyfriend, so it works out. A boyfriend. Enter the picture. Gross. All right. Good for you. Good for you. All right, so I am of the belief that most of the time, not always, but most of the time, when aging parents come up with a plan or a scheme, that actually deep down they're trying to help and they open up their toolkit and there's just one or two tools in there. and so take me back to that conversation you had with your parents did it ruin your relationship with them or when they explained themselves did you realize oh y 'all are trying they're actually trying to help in the way they know how and maybe their generation was just borrow money or just whatever but tell me about that relation that conversation and then tell me about your relationship with your parents now um yeah that's pretty much how the conversation went it was they were trying to help me be independent and be on my own, but still provide the support I needed with working at the post office.

57:35And it ended up being productive conversation. Y 'all still talk? Y 'all still close? Oh, yeah. My son goes over there on the weekend still because he wants to visit his Grammy and Papa. The atmosphere has completely changed where before when I was living there with them. Things were tense all the time. And now that we all have our own space, it's way more relaxed and there is no tense. Oh yeah. We threw a bunch of resources at you at the last call, Financial Peace University, EveryDollar. What's the financial progress been like? It's still steady. Okay. Knocking out some debts in Baby Step 2, still working through that?

58:16Yes. So when I went through Financial Peace University and I did all the things, I sat down and looked at everything, really. I was able to pay off three credit cards at one time. Wow. Because I didn't realize they were so low. That's great. You're just looking at those minimum payments. Just by not ignoring it and not being in denial, going, all right, I'm going to put this on paper, put it in the EveryDollar app, and go, what can I do about this? And you just went, I could knock these three out. Oh, yeah. Knocked those three out. Right now I'm working on, obviously I still have three more credit cards, so I'm working on those, getting those down.

58:53Yeah, how much is left total? On my credit cards? Yeah, total debt that you have left to pay off in Baby Step 2. Oh, like completely? Yeah. 115. So you got a journey ahead of you, huh? Yeah, it's student loans. because I went back to school to get a master's degree, and at the time, takeout alone was always, you know. Did you finish the master's? Oh, yeah, I have my master's in marine biology. Okay, and you're using that now to teach, or are you not teaching on that subject? I'm not teaching yet. I'm hoping to hear back from a job, though. Very good. Awesome. Well, we are rooting for you, Skylar.

59:32Appreciate the update. I love to see just how much life has changed for you in nine months just by having some hard conversations and doing some hard things. Skylar, we're heading into the holiday season, and one out of three calls of letters that come into my show, the John Deloney show, one out of three of those is either newly adult kids who have cut off their aging parents or aging parents who have cut off their kids. and almost always there's one big, heavy, looming conversation hanging between that relationship. What would you tell the 25-year-old, the 27-year-old, the 22-year-old that feels like they can no longer be around their aging parents about that conversation?

1:00:25What advice would you give them?

1:00:30um well from my experience it's you you just have to say it because nine times out of ten it's not as bad as you think it is I'm a huge over thinker and so I had the whole conversation in my head before I even approached my parents about it and that's what scared me into not telling them ah you you replayed that imaginary conversation a thousand times huh oh yeah like every second I wanted to bring it up that conversation play over again okay and you know, people do change too. Um, if you're with, if you know, for sure your parents or whoever you have to have that conversation with is making efforts to be a better person, they're most likely, they're more likely going to not react the way that you expect.

1:01:11Gotcha. Well, I'm proud of you for doing that. And this is what changing your family tree looks like. And, um, you're raising a kid that's going to know, I can always go to my mom with hard conversations and, uh, You're living proof. That's amazing. We're proud of you. Well, thank you. That's cool. And I appreciate you guys. I used everything you guys gave me, and then I shared the books you guys sent me with a friend of mine who needed them to. I love it. The ripple effect continues, John. Yeah, pass it along. Pass it along. There's so many pieces there. You know, behind the scenes, we talk about the Ramsey show as being more than about money.

1:01:44It's expanded because we realized half the calls are about relational dysfunction, not about the money thing, which is what they called in about as we dig one layer deeper. Or it's about a work thing and a career thing and getting the income up. And this one really hits all three of those buckets. She had a career problem. She had the money problem. And she had the relational problem with the parents. And it's amazing how you can work on all three at once. And there's a domino effect. Well, and the underlying foundation to all those problems is this one uncomfortable truth. You cannot go around scary things.

1:02:20You can't go around debt. You can't go around that big, hard, scary conversation you need to have with your loved ones one, two or three times. You can't go around a job that's not working for you and your new kid. You can't go around it. You got to go right through it. And it doesn't always have a happy ending like Skylar has, right? But there's more happy endings out there if you will just head right through the discomfort. Well, most people have pre-decided, well, here's what's going to happen. So what's the point? or it's the imaginary conversation I'm gonna tell George you're never gonna tell George that right and then they're gonna say that that kind of rumination is never it's never happy.

1:03:03Brene Brown calls it dress rehearsing tragedy you're performing it without actually doing it we're heading into holiday season if you gotta have that hard conversation have it if you realize I can't even afford the Christmas presents I'm about to start buying then have that reality go right through the middle of the discomfort. Talk about it at Thanksgiving, not at Christmas in a blow-up argument. That's exactly right. You set the boundary, you set the expectation, and that's really going to create the best life for you. Instead of being resentful, I'd rather you feel a little guilty. That's the best case scenario.

1:03:49Thank you.

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1:04:54Well, John, the old dog's got some new tricks. We've done something different on The Ramsey Show and started introducing video calls. so now we don't just get to hear from the audience. We get to see their beautiful faces. So if you want to be a part of that, you've got a question you'd like to submit and you want to be on video, we'd love that. Go to ramsaysolutions.com slash ask. Let us know your question. And in the subject line, just put video call so our team knows that you are willing and able to be on video. And the experience has been really cool so far. So we'd love more of those video calls.

1:05:28Go to ramsaysolutions.com slash ask subject video call. call. Looking forward to talking and seeing you guys. All right, let's go to Grace in Jacksonville, Florida up next. Grace, how can we help today? Hi. I'm sorry. I'm really nervous to meet you guys. I am 19 and I want to know how to best prepare and invest in my future, even though I make a low income while having debt and helping my mother pay bills. Wow. That's a lot to take on as a 19-year-old, what kind of debt are you in? It's just credit cards. How much?

1:06:11$3 ,375. And what do you make? I work two part-time jobs and a couple other things on the side, but I still only make about$28 ,000. $28 ,000. Okay. And are you in school? What's going on on the other side? I am in college. I'm almost done with my associate's in arts degree, and then I want to go into communications. Great. Is that part of your undergrad? Yes. Okay, so it's a four-year situation? Two-year, and then I'm going into a two-year university for the bachelors. Great. Okay, and are you cash-flowing that, or are you going into student loan debt? I don't have any student loans. It's all financially paid for, and I have Chapter 35 from my dad being in a lobservatory.

1:07:05Okay, great. That's one of my goals for you. You're talking about how to invest in myself. It's to avoid student loan debt. It's a plague among young adults, and it's going to propel you forward if you can do this debt-free. Now, tell me about mom. What's going on with you helping mom with expenses? um so my parents are divorced um so and i live with my mom so she's basically a single mother and has been for many a couple years um i use i use my money to help her pay bills up to like 250 to 500 every two weeks um and that goes to the mortgage on our house as well um so like with that, the mortgage bills and all of that, I do end up spending a lot of money.

1:07:53So$500 to$1 ,000 a month is what you're doling out from your take-home pay? Basically, yes. And is she sitting you down and saying, I need this money to survive? Or is this you just trying to pitch in? Or do you pay rent? What's the arrangement here?

1:08:12It's the first one. just to be able to at least get us by. I know, but... But she asked for that. Is she asking for it? Yes. Okay, is she working full-time? Yes, she is a director at a daycare center. Okay. Okay, and what does she make? Do you know? About$50 ,000 a year. Okay. It's a brand new job, though. Okay, I'm wondering, the future for Grace means you're probably moving out eventually, And so I want to make sure that mom has a sustainable plan versus, well, if I don't have Grace's money, I'm going to be broke. Well, and here's the problem for you, Grace, is you can't make that choice for her.

1:08:55You can't make that decision for her. And ultimately, you can't be held responsible for the choices she makes. and so on the back end of divorce one of the hardest conversations i have with people who just got divorced is you cannot afford the home y 'all have been living in and people want to keep everything the same except for the divorce and the divorce is so painful and it's so messy and yada yada but we want everything else to stay the same and that's what's one of the hardest conversations. And you as a 19 year old, you can't continue to prop up a bigger, harder decision that your mom needs to make on her own as an adult.

1:09:39If you want to choose to live there and say, Hey, I want to start, I want to shift this from, Hey, 200 this month, I need 400 for next month. I'm telling you right now, Grace, this is a recipe for resentment. And your mom doesn't deserve that. And you don't either. It's getting really clear with, I want to come up with a rent number that I pay you every month. Okay. You know what I'm saying? And that's you stepping into your 19 year oldness, your young adulthood and saying, I want to begin to clarify my roles and responsibilities in my life because you can't make a plan. If there's the emotional weight and the reality to, Hey, I need a thousand bucks.

1:10:17Hey, I need 500 bucks. Hey, I need 200 bucks over here because here's what you're going to start doing rightfully so hey why did you buy that we didn't need that you're going out to eat again like you're going to start these little bitty cracks in your relationship with your mom and so i want you to own what you can on your side of that relationship which is clarity clarity clarity clarity and like george said i want you to start considering being in your own apartment by 20 you don't have to but what would the math look like what would you need to do what would what would the world look like if that was your plan?

1:10:49So, me and my mom actually used to live in an apartment, and we just moved into a house because we couldn't afford the rent anymore. So she purchased that home? It is with a mortgage, so... Yeah, she bought it. She can't afford that home either. Yeah, what's the mortgage on it? Do you know? The monthly or the full... The monthly mortgage. How much? About$1 ,700. Okay. Well, can she afford that on her own if you were to move out today?

1:11:28Because my guess is she's probably bringing home$3 ,000-something a month. I don't think she would. So that's my fear is that this mortgage is over half of her take-home pay. And the only reason she could afford it was because you're there helping to prop it up artificially right now. So that's going to be part of that hard decision that John said. That's not your responsibility. That's the sad truth. And so if she has to end up selling this home because you decide to move out, I don't want you to feel guilty for that. Okay. Because then you're going to begin to say, well, I can't afford to finish this degree.

1:12:06or I can't take this job in this town that they want to hire me for because I've got to stay. And it's a counterintuitive way that's going to really cap you. And your mom trying to take care of you, you're like, we're ride or die together. That's a ton of weight for a teenager to carry. Or let me put it this way. I always tell parents, you can't call your kid your friend until they reach 25 because a teenager can't carry the weight of an adult friendship and of the full adult responsibilities. It's a lot. And I'm not saying you let your mom be destitute or whatever, but she's got to make grown-up decisions.

1:12:45And if she has to get this daycare job and then go from there to working holiday hours at Target or whatever to pay her bills, man, that's hard and it's tough. And she's an adult and she needs to make those math decisions. If she wants to rent out a room to her daughter, awesome. Let's just get that real, real, real clear. Okay. And lastly, Grace, what was the$3 ,300 in credit card debt for?

1:13:14So it's actually from my mom. Because this is a pre-planned, prepaid thing from a while ago that my old school was doing this Europe tour. And so we went because it was like really cheap to do. It was with a whole school education. So you put on the credit card? Yeah, my mom did. Let me tell you this. $3 ,300 at 29 % APR is not cheap. And so if I were you, I would pay off that credit card, cut it up, freeze your credit so that you can't make another bad financial decision, especially at 19. And I think I just heard you say something right there at the end of that call. never, ever, ever, ever let your mom talk you into borrowing money on your credit, on your social security number, on your credit cards.

1:14:06That is a nightmare recipe. You're setting a precedent. Blow up your relationship with her forever. Grace, it's normal to be broke at 19, but it's not normal to have this kind of intertwined financial life with your mother. And so that's the thing I would caution you against.

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1:15:22So this Christmas, skip the credit cards and celebrate progress, not payments. Spend with peace of mind, knowing that you're sticking to your budget and staying debt-free. And check out the Fairwinds Smart Bundle today at fairwinds.org slash Ramsey. And open up the Smart Bundle and grab your exclusive Ramsey Be Weird debit card. That's fairwinds.org slash Ramsey. Fair Winds is federally insured by the NCUA.

1:16:19Humans Decks from my friend, Dr. John Deloney. Audiobooks and e-books for just$6.99 and$15 assessments. So much more where that came from. Go to ramsysolutions.com slash store. Or if you're watching on YouTube or podcasts, click the link in the description. Chris is in Cleveland up next. What's going on, Chris? Hi, thanks for taking from the bottom of my heart my call. Oh, we're on. I'm calling. Oh, you guys are great. Long-time listener. I wish I would have followed through. Everybody out there, listen to them. It would have been great. Thank you. What I'm calling about is there's a long history, but I'm 70 years old.

1:17:03My first husband passed away. My second husband passed away. But with the second husband, well, I did. I adopted my grandchild because of situations. um eventually because of different things i bought a condo um on my own um the condo now is worth about 425 000 i have social security and other things coming in jacob now the the child is 19 years old and he is in an HVAC program, which I'm really proud of him for doing that. And he's a good kid, but I'm wondering, he kind of wants to venture out and I'm to the point where I kind of want to sell the condo. And I'm wondering, I'm wondering if I should sell it and buy him something or if I should just stay here and help rent it out to him and this new girlfriend.

1:18:14But I'm not sure what to do. I can tell by your voice you know the answer to all that is no. Why do you feel the pressure to do something that you don't want to do? I want to make sure that I, you know, his mom is a wayward child. and I have my other daughter who is great. But I want to make sure he's taken care of. I want to make sure he has something. I'm 70. Are you paying for this HVAC program? No, the HVAC program, he has gotten some foundations and everything for it. And I do have money from his grandfather. No, I'm not paying for it. Distill down for me what your actual question is. Are you asking should you sell your home so that you can buy him a house?

1:19:24Well, the point is I want to make sure he's taken care of. This condo is getting to be a lot for me. What does taking care of mean? There's a difference of he's not going to be on the streets to he has a paid for home at 19 years. You adopted him and saved him. He is where he is because of you. I know. I understand. Okay, so you have given him everything. I know. And now he's on a good path. He's going to be one of these new blue-collar millionaires that everybody's talking about. But you know what? I'm to the point where I don't want this condo anymore. Okay, that's a separate issue. Disconnect that from your grandson.

1:20:07Where do you want to move? Where are you going to live? Because you're going to live to be 95. You've got 20 more years. Oh, I hope so. Okay, you've got 20 more years. He's going to be 40. Where are you going to go? Are you going to go rent somewhere? And that's when I don't know what to do. I don't know, because he doesn't want to stay. He's talking about moving out. And he's talking about moving out, and him and his girlfriend for$800 a month can afford something. Okay. What's wrong with that? There's no way. What's wrong with that is... You're saying he can only afford$800 a month? As a Christian.

1:20:48Okay, there we go. That's it. This is a violation of your values. Right. You selling your house and moving where you want to move is issue one. If you don't like this condo anymore, great, but you've got to have a place to live. And if you've already paid this thing off and you're not going to something, I would suggest you hang on to this condo because nobody can take it from you. If Social Security goes belly up in the next 10 years, if Social Security doesn't keep up with inflation, which it hasn't been, if, if, if, if, nobody can take your home from you. I know, but part of it is social security.

1:21:27I mean, I've got$42 ,000 coming in per month. $42 ,000 per month? Yes. No, per year. Per year. Okay, I was like, I don't know what kind of social security. I want that program. I want that program. I solve. So you've got$4 ,200 of income per month. You have no debt at all, right? No. You live fairly frugally. There's two cars. You know, I try. Absolutely. And I just, part of me really wants to move out of the condo. To where, though? To where? I'm thinking about senior place. Great. That's amazing. Can you afford that? Absolutely. I mean, my mom had a place and she just pantsed away within the year,$1 ,800 a month.

1:22:19okay then get with a smart investor pro sell your home put the 425 you're going to get from it in an account that will earn money to make sure your next 20 years you can afford um this place but what do i do about jacob you can't you can't here's the most beautiful part he's he's turning into a grown man and he's in the hvac world he's going to make great money and he gets to figure that out for himself and my fear is you stepping in is actually going to harm him more than it's going to help him when my grandmother when i came home from college and she sat me down and said i had five i think at the time earrings and my hair was all long and she said i don't like your earrings that's not jacob though i know but i'm just saying like she my grandmother who i love told me she didn't like a thing i was doing okay and i heard her and i actually made some changes in my life.

1:23:15But that was the extent of the power she held over me. Okay. And you're trying to take ownership or even asking yourself, did I do something wrong because he's at 18 or 19 wanting to move in with his girlfriend into a cheap apartment. I'm going to free you from that. No, you saved his life. Okay. Alright, thank you. Thank you for your time. He's done something amazing. You've instilled character into this and gave him a safe place and showed him what love looked like. That is worth far more than you handing him a condo at 19, which no 19-year-old needs handed to them. It's healthy to rent somewhere and figure it out.

1:23:52A half a million dollar condo is not going to keep him from living with his girlfriend. Maybe you sitting him down and saying, hey, this is a big deal to me. I want to be heard on this. I'm your grandmother and slash your mom. Don't do this. Then he gets to decide what he's going to go do next. But yeah, buying him a house, whatever. Sell your condo. That's great. Make sure you sit down with a smart investor pro on what to do with the cash so that 20 years of living in a residential facility, you're going to be okay. You're always going to have money to take care of yourself. That's the greatest gift you can give for him is him not having to come pay your rent the last 10 years of your life.

1:24:30So making sure you're good to go, that's a gift. But man, yeah, be heard on this values thing. It's tough. Chris is such a sweet, sweet person. If she's taking grandson applications, I'm willing to apply. my grandma god rest her soul here's what she gave us and we were grateful for it 100 bucks at christmas 100 bucks on the birthday that's a huge no condos i turned out okay barely but i loved it my grandmother had i mean she didn't have the courage she was just amazing but she said i don't like that hair i don't like those earrings i like this woman you need to marry her which when i was dating my wife like that was awesome that was awesome that wisdom yeah Yeah, it was great.

1:25:11It was far more. But I still, at 19, 20, 25, whatever, I had to go make the next decision. I thought it was the right one. Yeah. Handing a, I mean, just thinking me at 19, you hand any 19-year-old any large asset or any large amount of money, they're going to squander it and screw it up. He'll sell it within the month. Our brains are not developed enough to handle something like that. Yeah. And best case scenario, it destroys your work ethic. Because you're like, well, I was working so hard, so one day I could own a home, and now it's just handed to me. That's right. Who needs work anymore?

1:26:07Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio. I'm George Campbell, joined by Dr. John Deloney. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Paige awaits in Michigan up next. What's going on, Paige? Hi, thank you so much for taking my call. So my question today is, how do I tell my mom that I don't want her to be my financial advisor? Ooh, is she literally a financial advisor? That is her profession? so for background um she is becoming a financial advisor right now my current financial advisor um she was working for and he's retiring this year so she is taking over for him very simple very simple conversation i got you you ready yes i need you to just be my mom Yeah.

1:26:58So the issue with that is actually, I was meeting with a financial advisor that actually works right next to her office yesterday. She was leaving work early, and right as I was walking into the other door, she was walking out, and she was pretty upset that I was, another context I have a 529 plan that was set up years ago and I yesterday converted it over to start the process of converting it to an IRA and she was pretty upset with me when she told me okay but like if she was a therapist you wouldn't go to her for therapy yes okay true that's so true and so when she I want you to tell her hey mom if you were going to graduate school to get a graduate degree in therapy I would tell all my friends to come see you but I can't have you as my therapist.

1:27:47I need you as my mom. And I'm so proud of you for going to get your financial stuff. That's awesome. But I want you to stay my mom. Of course, I'm going to ask you your opinion on stuff, but I need, I want to preserve this relationship. Okay. What do I do if she feels offended by that? Because she - You can't control that. You can't control that. Okay. Yes. And can I be honest with you? You've probably been having to solve for that your whole life, haven't you? Yes, I think so. Yes. Mom's going to get mad. Don't do this. Don't say that. Mom's going to get mad. What you learned as a really young kid is that it was your job to take care of the emotional needs of the adults in your life, and that's never a kid's job.

1:28:32Yeah. And so if your mom, if you do what's best for you and your mom decides to go off the handle, scream and yell, not talk to you, not invite you to Christmas, that's heartbreaking. You have to grieve that. But that's a choice that she is as another adult made to put conditions on her love for her daughter, which is you will be one of my clients. Yep. Okay. No, it's so funny. My husband actually just told me this last night too. He's a huge fan of yours. Smart guy. All right, do not tell him that you called us. Tell him, be like, you know what, honey? You're so smart and handsome. You're right.

1:29:11And he's going to be like, oh, yeah. I love it. Thank you. Yeah. Here's my take, too, Paige. I want someone who's unbiased and unclouded. And the truth is your mom loves you so much she can't. Her judgment will be clouded by her love for you and what she wants for you and what she didn't get to do and what she would have done if she was your age. I just want an old guy who's like, here's the math. Here's what to invest in. And I go, okay, cool. Or an old woman. This is not sexist. But you know what I mean? I want someone so unbiased and so far removed who's looking at my situation from 30 ,000 feet, not somebody who was changing my diapers a decade ago.

1:29:49Right. So it's just harder when it's someone that close to you. So it's not out of that you don't love her or you don't trust her. No, it's because you love her and trust her that you want to keep the roles clear. Yes, exactly. And I know you guys always say don't mix family and money. Thanksgiving dinner tastes different. Yes. And imagine she moves you in a bunch of funds, and those funds, because they're on the market and they're part of a roller coaster system, they go down. I don't want that. Yeah, right? I don't want you looking at her being like, oh, our portfolio was good last month until mom moved it to, right?

1:30:24It's just going to protect you long term. Perfect. Okay. Thank you so much. Of course. I feel like I always need to hear it from another source. From an unbiased third party? Yeah, there we go. That's it. This is so funny. George, if my mom worked in concrete, I would ask her to come help fix my driveway. My mom was an English professor. When it came to, hey, will you help me edit this? Of course. But that's not a – it's just – does the comma go here or does the comma go here? it's there's yeah there's not all this other drama involved so there's certain jobs man absolutely my friend was just telling me so she's selling her house and her dad just became a real estate agent he sold zero homes guess who's the real estate agent guess who's not gonna sell their dad and so i'm like this is a nightmare situation but she's like well i just i want to help him out and i'm like this is not this is this is scary well you're choosing i'm gonna and by the way you're not helping out as much as you are placating.

1:31:28I would rather him not be sad than we sell our house. Exactly. And if he chooses to be sad, great. And here's what's going to happen. He's going to struggle to sell that house. First one, just the way it goes. And he's going to start panicking and feeling a little bit shamed. And then he's going to not call back all the time. And then Thanksgiving dinner is going to be really awkward. Oh, that was the other thing she said. Yeah, he's not great at like details and keeping up on stuff and getting back to texts and emails. I'm like, that's who you want selling the house. Let him have the privilege of just being your dad.

1:31:59Yes. Amen. That's all we got to say. All right. Allison is up next in Richmond, Virginia. What's your question, Allison? Yes. So I have a 12-year-old that, well, she's 12 and a half, that's been watching and listening to the Ramsey Show with us and watching her dad and I do our baby sets. And she's been saving money because she wants to buy a car in several years. So she has a checking account and a savings account. And we actually went to the bank yesterday. We were going to take a chunk of her savings and move it to a money market. But they said that because she's under 18, we can't do that.

1:32:31So we wanted to know, should we open a CD? Or would you suggest that she's gaining more interest than just a little savings account? Yeah. Well, she's making like 0.0 something percent. Right. You could do a – as the parent or guardian, you could open a high-yield savings account. That's what I would do. and designated as a savings account for the child. Okay. So it's just kind of a label on there that it's for the kid. Okay. So, okay. Because we asked about this. You can do a money market, put in your names, and then just turn it over to her when she's 18, but her name couldn't be on it. Exactly.

1:33:08You could just transfer it over. And if you want a great high-yield savings account, usually your brick-and-mortar banks have terrible high-yield savings accounts, terrible rates. So you might want to look at an online option, and one that I love and use is from our friends at Fairwinds. And you've heard Fairwinds Credit Union Studio. They have an awesome high-yield savings account. So you could open that in your name, label it for her, and start stacking away money in there. And it's going to make 10x what you're making in your current bank. And that's what I would do. CDs I don't love because the money is locked up and you've got to time it perfectly for it to mature, all of that.

1:33:40And the rates in high-yield savings accounts are as good as a lot of the CDs out there. And don't lose this. She sounds like an extraordinary 13-year-old. very mature is that fair yeah she is okay one thing a gift you can give her that's not going to feel like a gift in the moment is to remind her through things like this that you are still the parent i like that okay and because because when she goes to buy a car she is going to save seven thousand dollars to go buy a car you are going to say you can or cannot buy this car because you're 16. Right. Right? And I'm not going to let you buy a cool truck that's been dropped with...

1:34:21Right? Because I'm still your parent. This is a great way to say, hey, I'm proud of you. This is your money. You've earned it. But we're going to put it in this account because it can earn more money for you. And I like the 401 Dave plan. Maybe you match what she puts into that and she gets a$14 ,000 used car four years from now. Now we're talking.

1:34:56Do you want to keep more money in your pocket and not Uncle Sam's? Then listen up. There are tax deductions and credits you could maximize before the end of the year by connecting with an experienced tax professional like a Ramsey Trusted Tax Pro. They know the tax code inside and out, so you don't have to. and they can help you file when tax season rolls around. Get a trusted tax pro by going to RamseySolutions.com slash tax pro. RamseySolutions.com slash tax pro.

1:35:45Buying or selling your home is a big deal. With all the clickbait headlines and conflicting data out there, it's hard to know what's really happening in the housing market. So let's make the trends easy to understand. The median home prices held steady around$424 ,000. In October, about one in five houses saw a price cut, which means buyers might have more room this winter to negotiate and snag a better price. Mortgage rates dipped slightly to about 5.5 % in October, giving some buyers breathing room. But since rates are unpredictable, the best time to buy is when you're financially ready, not when rates drop.

1:36:18Do not try to time the market in that way. So if you want to learn more about housing market trends and get some free tools to help you buy or sell with confidence, go to RamseySolutions.com slash market or click the link in the show notes if you're listening on podcast or watching on YouTube. Victoria is in Temple, Texas up next. What's going on, Victoria? Hey, thanks. What's happening? So I, yeah, so my husband and I have no consumer debt, but we're about to close probably in January on our house, which will be about$260 after the down payment, maybe a little bit less because we're stacking it right now with my income.

1:36:53Right now I work, it's called PRN, it's as needed. So it works because I have two young kids. I have a two and a half year old and a 10 month old. so right now though we're looking at well what if i took there's a full-time night's position coming up i work social work in the er usually um there's a full-time night position coming up in the spring so we're looking at well what if i took that and we just worked really hard for a season in order to pay it off like we could pay our house off in about three and a half years and so what's stressing you out about this house why the aggressive nature well well that's the thing and that's kind of why I'm you know trying to get some advice is because it's not necessarily stressing us out we have a lot of peace with where we're at right now but the idea of looking forward and seeing um you know a short sprint and then being at the end of it and being totally free um which is huge to us being able to do you know what we need to do want to do if we feel called to go somewhere else do something else like all that kind of freedom yeah it's just really appealing to us so i don't want you're talking to two guys who are obsessed with not owing people yeah i feel the exact same pain it just just know that it comes at a cost and it does it it wears you out around the edges it's in my brain i'm going well right now with the with a two and a half year old and a 10 month old this is when they need you the most and so could we delay this aggressive you know take until maybe when they're three and five.

1:38:22Okay. Now life is a little easier. You can afford to take a little more sacrifice. That's a personal decision. I'm just looking at the variables as a dad with, with two young ones like you, it would be a really hard season for me to sacrifice right now versus when they're a little bit older. Yeah. I, I had kind of look at it two different ways. Like I think it would be a different sacrifice at that point. It is. I kind of look at it. I'm Like they're not really going to remember this time. I mean, I'm there when my mom watches them when I'm not home. Their nervous system will. Their nervous system will.

1:38:53Yeah. Yeah. But again, you have the right word. Any path you take is a sacrifice and any path you take comes with tradeoffs. Yeah. So if we play this out where you don't make this sacrifice, how long will it take to pay off the mortgage if you just make extra payments with your current income? What's that trajectory? That would be more like... Five years? I think when I looked at it, no, it's more like maybe eight. Okay. And then let's also fast forward. You guys will be making more money two years from now, four years from now than you are today, correct? Probably. Or is there a world where you want to stay home for a season?

1:39:33Or are you wanting to continue through that? I mean, my long-term goal is to be home. I was home for the first about year and a half of my son's life and went back to work actually right before I had my second to try to stack up cash for this down payment. Okay. And so, you know, I want to eventually be home. And that's part of it, too, is like at that point I could just be home and not have this in my mind. Let me ask you, I want to ask George a question on your behalf, okay? So this mortgage you're taking out is$260 ,000? Yeah, at tops after down payment. All right, so let's say after down payment, for easy math, let's say$250 ,000, okay?

1:40:06That's what you all come in at. George, could they take one year and just go B-A-N-A-N-A-S, get it down to where they owe$125 ,000, and then go recast that to where their payment is$125 ,000, basically their existing mortgage, which keeps all the interest the same, everything's the same, except now your monthly payment just plummets so that you could then stay home and you have a$125 ,000 mortgage? I like that plan. What does your husband make? uh he's actually starting a new job this week where he'll be making 80 his take home after all the i calculated the whole thing it should be about um 2 ,700 a paycheck per paycheck okay and then what are you making right now well right now i make one to three thousand a month because i work you know i pick up shifts if i took this job my take home after you know retirement and that would be maybe around six-ish.

1:41:01Oh, wow. So let me throw a thing, a variable in here that I always recommend to brand new parents, okay? Make six-month plans. Make three-month plans. Because what happens sometimes is people make four-year commitments and they have a 10-month-old, and then in six months you absolutely hate every second of your life waking up and being away from this barely one-year-old kid. Yeah. And you feel trapped because, quote-unquote, we made a deal. And so what if y 'all say, we're going to try this plan out, but we have it already on the calendar. We already have a half-day retreat planned with just the two of us to say, do we still like each other?

1:41:47Do we still, is our, are we still like hanging out with each other? Do we still like going to bed at the same time? Does our intimacy life, are we still going the way we want to be? Do we have the life that we want to have right this second? And is the sacrifice still worth it? And that gives both of you permission to say, I hate what we're doing, to go, cool, pull the plug. You get what I'm saying? That way you don't feel trapped. Yeah. At first when we started talking about it, we were like, no, we're not doing that. That's crazy. And then as we've talked about it more, we're like, well, what if we try it?

1:42:17And then we definitely have that understanding together of like, well, if we do this, not committing to more than like a year, and if we feel good about it at that point, keep going. But if not, then we stop. Or even if something sooner comes up, because that's the great thing about my job now is I have that freedom to work when it works for us and not work when it doesn't work for us. And make no mistake, what you're doing is like clinically, technically crazy. Right? It is. It's abnormal. It's outside of the normal. and it could change everything for the rest of your life. But if y 'all set the foundation of your marriage on fire to get to this thing, then when you get there, you cross that finish line and you got nothing left to give or you look back and realize we don't like each other.

1:42:59We don't like the parents we've become. We haven't been intimate in five years. Like it will come at a cost. And so it's constantly going back and checking in. The reason I can't tell you don't do this is it's exactly what I did. Yeah. And I don't regret it, but I wish my wife and I had had better conversations on the front end. And we had a lot. And I'm glad that we both, I'm glad that we did it. So it's, it's both in, but just go in very wide eyed that this is going to come at a cost. Yeah, well, definitely do. And that's why I'm trying to seek wisdom is I know like, you know, just the night schedule and switching back to days to be with them on my days off.

1:43:36And like, you know, that just would be a lot. It will be a lot. Alone. And then also my kids. Right. But I, am a lot when I owe somebody money, I just don't sleep as well. And I know because I've tracked it, right? I just don't, it just weighs on me. And so everybody's a little bit different there. But man, I always tell folks to go, if you can do it in two years, then just hit the gas. And you're looking at doubling that to four years. What's the mortgage payment going to be likely? I think it'll be around 18 or 19, depends on what the interest rate comes to. Okay. It sounds like your husband could cover that if he was just his income.

1:44:14Yeah, we designed our life so that if I really wanted to be home, I could be. Good. That was going to tell you. Same page, same team. I didn't want you to craft a life where you both have to work full time and you have no options. No, no, no. So the fact that you did this. We crafted this to be very flexible. Well, I think you have options then. And I think you'll know pretty quickly if it's working for the family, if it's working for you, if you wanted to try it for a season. That might be what I would do is just test it out. My wife did this. She came back to work after she had a baby. Four months later, she was like, I need to be home.

1:44:44But at least we knew. You know that you know once you've tried it out. So I would encourage you to try it out. And the good news is it's not a sin. If you pay it off in five years instead of three, you're still so far ahead of America. It's mind-blowing. I'm just so proud of you guys for pre-deciding that you don't want to carry this mortgage for 15, 30 years. Commit to a short-term goal. Hit it and reevaluate.

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1:46:41Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Today's question of the day is sponsored by YRefi. If you've tried everything to fix your defaulted private student loans and nothing's worked, YRefi can help. They build custom fixed rate plans based on what you can actually afford. Learn more at yrefy.com slash Ramsey. That's the letter Y, R-E-F-Y dot com slash Ramsey. Not available in all states. All right, today's question comes from Nathan in Georgia. Nathan writes, I'm in college and I'm trying to earn a degree that will make me the most money in the quickest amount of time. You just don't like that.

1:47:18I don't enjoy the field I'm studying, but my goal is to chase money and then figure out what I want to do after graduation. I really don't like that. Am I wrong to chase money instead of career satisfaction? Yes. Yes. Yes. And then more yes. And then yes after that. Wow. Okay. I'm trying to parse this. Earn the degree that will make me the most money in the quickest amount of time. What does that even mean? So the ROI on this degree. So that means like you're going to get into med school and become a doctor or you're going to work. It's the quickest amount of time. and so so it's just whatever i can do in a four-year degree that will roi with the highest paying job on the other side correct and then i will figure out what i want to do after graduation so there's no real career on the other side or then whatever pays the most yes you can do that you can but it will not work out long term and so i i know i'm in the minority on this and i know unbiased because I worked in colleges for years.

1:48:21The degree you get, the skill you learn how to do, the trade you learn, whether you're learning the trade of communication, you're learning the trade of counseling, you're learning the trade of how to work in a business. That is important. And so is if you have to have a degree with 128 hours in it, that means you're going to have multiple professors over the course of your time. That means you're learning how to operate with 30 or 40 different bosses. What does this boss want in that paper versus what this boss wants? What is this one? You're also learning to work with your classmates. You're also learning to navigate and learn how to do quote unquote life, how to pay your bills, how to be on time.

1:49:00And so to just distill down education into a transaction, I'm morally opposed to that. And I think we've reduced it to high schools are struggling with this. I just need this grade so I can get this test. And what we have done is create a system where the only thing that matters is not what you have learned or know, but what does that end report card say? And we're finding that there is more A's than ever, and we're falling off a cliff in terms of, oh, you don't know how to do math. You don't know how to write. You don't know how to think on your own. And so if you reduce this education to quickest this, quickest that, most ROI, you're going to run into a mess.

1:49:42So that's number one. Number two, don't hear me say that what you get a major in doesn't matter. It absolutely does. And there's a bunch of insane majors out there that are not a good use of your time and money. So be thoughtful about that. The next bigger thing here is, am I wrong to chase money instead of career satisfaction? Yes. The number three on our study of millionaires, the number three was teachers. teachers, if you pursue something you love and that you become good at over time and you are helping people, you have to make real life choices about the math problem that is your life. And what I love about teachers being number three is my wife was a teacher.

1:50:23She knew what this job was going to pay. And so she made choices on her undergraduate degree and she made choices that her first car she bought was a Corolla and she thought it was going to go for 25 years. I guarantee see that car still driving somewhere. She made peace with the Corolla life. She made peace with, this is what I'm going to do. And so this is what I want to have. And she would have fallen right in line with other teachers that you become a millionaire over time because you make choices about your lifestyle, right? But if you chase money, it will never end. It just won't end well.

1:50:53It'll never be enough. And if you get to some certain goal, the goalpost will just move and you'll be calling us saying, hey, I make 300 ,000 doing medical device sales and I hate it. right can i go back to school for the thing i love i'm like well dude just do that now do that now or don't go to school at all if you just want to go make a bunch of money go start a landscaping company and go bust your butt and make six figures the first year you can do that too this is america you have the choice but chasing money in and of itself is a terrible goal uh instead go what do i love to do what could i get really good at and the money helping yes that to me is the magic a question that never comes up in uh because i my whole my whole job trajectory has been the one thing i'm pretty good at is sitting behind closed doors of hurting people i did that as a dean of students i did that as a crisis responder now i do that as a youtuber and one day this will all go away and i'll the job will change again that's it it will change again but my identity is separate from it has to be from a job title the world's too crazy it's moving too fast.

1:51:57Your job titles are going to change. The job we have right now did not exist when I graduated. And so chasing money or chasing an, uh, I got to get this degree so I can go as fast. I can't, man, who knows where I would be right now. I would have fallen off a cliff, but get real good at the thing that you do, right? You're real, you are really good at distilling down complex information and helping people. That would be good across a number of fields. It just happens to be this one right now. What is the thing you're really good at and what lights you up and then go chase that. And by the way, people don't want to do business with someone who they know is just chasing money.

1:52:31They can smell the inauthenticity four miles away. And so you will actually suffer financially if you're just plain goal is chase money. Nobody wants to do that when you're desperate for the sale to make another buck. So I hope that helps, Nathan. Hope you're listening out there. Hope all young people listen to this conversation because this could spare you a lot of heartache. All right. Savannah is in Montgomery, Alabama. What's going on, Savannah? Hey, so I am looking to get some advice on a repossession situation that happened after a divorce, and I'm stuck paying for it. Oh, man. So is your divorce finalized?

1:53:14Yes, it's been finalized. The vehicle was awarded to him in the divorce. I've tried to communicate with the loan company. They don't care, honestly, because my name is on the loan as well. After the divorce, he just didn't pay the truck, and it got repoed back in June or July, I believe. They've since auctioned the vehicle off, and now they've sent me a letter for the remaining balance. The deficiency amount. How much is that? um seven thousand i'm sorry the whole balance is twelve thousand seven hundred fourteen dollars and thirty cents okay um have you called your attorney to circle back um i have not what did the divorce decree say no longer being recorded i'm sorry what are the what did the divorce decree say so whatever was in his possession at the time of the divorce was awarded to him, which is the, was the vehicle.

1:54:17But did it say he was responsible for the car payments or that you were? Well, it said, so the debt was, the loan was in both of our names and it said my debt was to be to me and his debt was to be to him. Okay. And I had asked them about this, you know, before and they just told me, you know, it's got my name on it. I have to deal with it. No, legally they don't, the lender doesn't care about the decree, but it just, you know, if you could take legal action against them, if you wanted to pursue that, I think the easiest route to go is just try to settle because you are legally responsible for it.

1:54:46And so if you can settle for instead of 12, seven, if you can come up with five or six and they can call it paid off, I would do that. So they did send me a letter. That's what I got this week telling me that they would settle for$7 ,628.58. Perfect. Okay. How, how fast could you save that up if you just worked your tail off and did nothing else but save up to get this car out of your life? Um, I mean, I don't know. On the letter, they're giving me 36 months to pay that off. I don't know if that's going to include interest or what. It may have some fees on there. You may be able to negotiate those off if you can say, hey, I'm going to pay you this money in a year, but I need you to remove all these extra fees.

1:55:27Okay. So, I mean, I'm a single mom and I work five full days a week. And then the weekends that I don't have my kids, I work those weekends as well. Do you have any other debts right now? I have my house. Okay, just a house. I would put all my guns toward this. Would this be a case of going to a credit union and getting a loan and getting this thing knocked out? If you could do that. I would, ideally that would be great. But, I mean, when he left me, he destroyed everything that I had. Yeah, your credit's tanked because of the repo. My credit was like$400 probably. Yeah. You might go to a credit union and take the divorce decree and explain it, and they may work with you because you're in a different situation, especially if you bring your work, your current hours that you're working right now.

1:56:14They may give you that loan knowing there's an extenuating circumstance, but maybe not.

1:56:56Hey friends, our Black Friday sale is live.

1:57:12Our scripture of the day, Isaiah 48, 17. I am the Lord your God, who teaches you what is best for you, who directs you in the way you should go. Eddie Vedder said, life moves fast. As much as you can learn from your story, you have to move forward. Chip is in Dallas, Texas up next. What's going on, Chip? Well, get straight to the point, guys. My father and I are in business together. I've got two other brothers and one sister. They don't participate in the business and never have. My parents are getting a little bit older, and I am worried about if something happens to them, where this leaves me for my business, which I've built.

1:58:00My father's a hands-off partner. And my main concern is I have a good relationship with my siblings, but when stuff happens, stuff happens. So in this case, it's a substantial business, but also we own the real estate. So I'm trying to figure out, is it something that I should try to pursue buying them out. I don't know if I could buy them out using funds from the business. And again, I don't know. How much has he invested in for? So technically, my mother's 25%, my father's 25%, I'm 25%, and my wife is 25%. Let's just say my parents are 50. What are they in for, though? Oh, money-wise,$3.5 million is total what their share would be worth.

1:58:54And your concern is that they pass away suddenly, and then your siblings come wanting their piece of that$3.5 million? Yes. I've talked to my father about it. He says that we have, I guess, laid it out equally. But my problem is that I don't know about the other assets. If it's going to come into the point, let's just say that if I want to take this business, am I going to have to buy out my siblings? Is your dad saying, no, no, no, I've got 3.5 for one sibling and 3.5 for the other? Is that what he was saying? No, no, no, no. What he has, like I'd say, to buy him out of this business is 3.5 million, like what I'd have to pay to get him and my mom out.

1:59:41That's what I would value it at. Of course, we haven't had a valuation in the past two years. Yeah, what is the business worth? So the business itself is probably worth about a million and a half. The real estate was worth two. It's probably worth more like three, maybe three and a half now. So it could be more than three and a half total. And what is it cash flow? Cash flow, so the only people that take, you know, of these partners that take salaries is my wife and I. And we each take about$100 ,000. and then we do disbursements at the end of the year. So cash flow after paying our salaries is about$500 ,000.

2:00:21Okay. And you're saying that$3.5 million, they would agree, that's fair amongst all parties as far as about it? I'm not saying that. I think that if I approach them, possibly. I think if you're making a net after expenses of$500 ,000 a year, your valuation is pretty high. Yes, I think what it is is it's a reoccurring income, and I don't want to get into too much details, but it is a kind of like a subscription-based, if you will. So it's kind of like you have people locked in, and then you have long-term customers. But let's just say – yeah, go ahead. But I mean even – I mean you're talking about 7X, your net cash flow, right?

2:01:08Oh, again, the 3.5 is including real estate. Okay. Got it. So let's just pretend it's three and a half. Let's just walk this through an example, and I'll tell you what I would do, what Dave Ramsey would do. We're not doing debt, and you obviously don't have the money up front to pay for this, correct? No, no. And again, not to say that he would want it all up front, but— Sure. But would they be willing to go, all right, we'll do$350K for 10 years is what you're going to pay us from this business? uh i think so um i don't know uh they are getting older so i'm not trying to be morbid but um i would say that 10 years may be a stretch truthfully uh unfortunately so yeah well we i think you just start playing with the numbers here and okay here's what we could comfortably do based on the actual revenue of the business to go all right we can do 400 000 over seven years i i would prefer it to be a percentage of your profit.

2:02:04I agree. I agree. And my hope would be that y 'all do that in every year y 'all can reconcile. And so maybe you get down to where, let's say they last six years. And then at the end, I just would have to pay the difference to siblings. You would pay it to a trust that would be dispersed to the siblings. That's right. At the agreed upon rate. And I would involve a lot of professionals at this point. I would not do handshake agreements. I would have a business valuation expert, a CPA, an estate attorney get all of this in writing so that everyone's on the same page, siblings included. And that's my thing.

2:02:40I've been trying to work on this the past three or four years, and again, my father's like, don't worry about it. Don't worry about it. He's a bare man. I'm not thinking anything's going to happen, like shady like that. But again, I'm just worried about the sibling. It's a relational drama outside of this. Have you talked to your siblings to tell them that you're working on it? um so uh one brother oldest brother doesn't have any care he's like i don't care about it he's like i'll sign over whatever so anything that if i did have to pay him he wouldn't want a payment um he's a he's done for pretty well in life i guess this doesn't is it needed for him i would make sure you get that in writing seven years from now his wife did they really want that yeah yeah yeah no and i agree i agree uh that's what i i don't see that being a problem um the other two again they're very nice people, but when stuff happens and they might say, oh, well, this is worth three and a half or whatever, and our portion's worth this.

2:03:33That's what I'm worried about. They have shown no interest in the business. They never supported the idea or supported real estate in general. Sure. A perfect world is you sit down with your dad and say, I'd like to make you a three and a half million dollar offer again after a real evaluation maybe two that you take the average of a real evaluation that you offer that to him and he says no chance i'll sell this to you for a million dollars yeah well i love that or for one whatever and he may say great cool but he may say i'm not taking that much money we're going to sign an agreement here and then it's going to be based off net profit over the next 10 years that way there's no debt if the business goes in the hole then you don't owe any money that year yeah but but if you if you sign a note to a four hundred thousand dollars a year then you're locked into a payment oh yeah no and i don't i don't like payments the only thing that we owe is a small mortgage on our home so again we've been we've been following dave and uh that's my main concern because i know that i could approach an sba loan for something like this i just don't want to yeah don't do that when you introduce risk it's going to add pressure and stress to everything.

2:04:43And so that's the one thing I don't do is do not touch debt to go into this plan. And I like the idea of a percentage of profits over time. And so I hope that you guys can come to an agreement on what's fair and equitable for all parties. And you avoid the drama of the siblings being involved. Make it very clear what they would get when mom and dad pass. Here's how this is going to go down. And I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but I'm going to be. If you have four siblings and one of those siblings had a really tight relationship with mom and dad, so much so that they invested a ton of money together, they were silent partners in a business together, I promise you there is already a little bit of golden child syndrome.

2:05:26Oh, yeah, sure. Chip always gets fill in the blank. And so make no mistake, you are clearly a man of character trying to set this thing up so you preserve your relationships over time, I would expect mathematically that at least one of your siblings, if not two, bundle up and try to start a fight after your parents pass. It wasn't fair. They didn't talk to us. He got more than whatever the thing will be. I hope that's not the case. But we're talking millions. It almost always is. Yeah. And so just be ready for that. I've rarely seen one of these just go perfectly smooth and everyone's happy and nobody's upset and everyone thought it was fair.

2:06:03That's right. Yeah. And so the best thing you can do is get ahead of it. talk about it so much they're sick of you talking about it to where it's like hey i'm gonna send you that email once a year about here's the agreement here's the estate plan and even dave ramsey does this with his own family every year they come to jesus if dave dies meeting here's what's going to happen with the estate and so there's no questions that's right there will not be any arguments to be had because there's nothing to argue about yeah just just it's easy to say i don't care about that i don't need that money and then you find out wait i was gonna get a million dollars?

2:06:33Yeah, now that conversation changes. That puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books. Remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

2:07:02Thank you.