Follow a Proven Plan, Quit Making It Up As You Go

30:26Yes. Do it the next day or two. Yes. Right. Let everybody in your family know, let all the temper tantrums happen. Let all the plans happen. Let all the exhale happen. But make those plans while you are still in control of them before you get dragged behind somebody else's vision of Thanksgiving and Christmas. I agree. I would take a step further too and just think back on last year's holiday and kind of audit that and say, here's what went well and here's what didn't and use that as the template this year will not be the year it finally all works out it'll be just like last year hey quick reality check ai isn't just for sci-fi nerds and silicon valley tech bros anymore it's the new weapon of choice for every scammer with fast Wi-Fi and bad intentions.

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32:31All right. Anthony is in Providence, Rhode Island. Hey, Anthony, how can we help out today? Hi, how are you doing? Thanks for taking the call. Yeah, you bet. What's up? um so i'm currently torn right now um my wife and i i'll start off with this my wife and i we both take home around and i'm saying like net uh we take around eighty thousand dollars a year maybe with bonuses closer to 85. okay um right now we are both currently twenty thousand dollars in debt between our car loans and credit card debt. Okay. The main concern I have now, I just started following the baby steps. I just got introduced to Dave Ramsey by my friend.

33:26And everything's great. The math is mapping. The only concern I have right now is that I've been working, between her and I, we've been working very, very, very hard. Long, long hours trying to figure out babysitting. So it's been pretty tough trying to manage time because I know you can't get time back. That's the one thing I've always been told. That's true. So the$85 ,000 net, that's with side hustles? The$85 ,000, that's with both of our primary incomes. right but you were saying like we're navigating you made it seem like you were doing a lot of extra so uh at our so we both have a job um a full-time job i'm working about 60 hours a week and then she's working about maybe 30 35 hours a week okay how old are your kids so i have one kid he's one years old he just turned one um and trying to find a babysitter is the main issue for us got it um we're able to make it work her grandma's always there for us and stuff okay um that's a blessing dude so how much margin do you have every month yeah like you've done the budget and by the way welcome to the cult brother hope you like took a bath in the kool-aid man all right so you're here in our crazy little gang like how much margin do you have y 'all on a budget, what do you got left at the end of every month that you're throwing at this$20 ,000 debt?

35:00So, for me alone, just because we're not factoring both of our incomes together as much. You're married. You all made a human together. You can share a checking account. So, the main issue has been trying to get her on board with the Dave Ramsey thing. Okay, so halt everything. Halt everything, homie. Halt it all. You can't do this by yourself, man. Right. You can't. You've got a bigger issue than debt right now and then it's a spouse that doesn't share the same values as you. Right. You've got to get there. What does she want to do? Tell us her side. Yeah, so she definitely believes in working very hard and trying to stack the money, but the issue is that she's not, in her mind, she wants to save the money, but she's not actually putting it on pen and paper.

35:55And then she's not having any, you know, margin at the end of every month. But she shouldn't have margin. Y 'all should have margin. So is the problem that she doesn't feel good about combining money? Like plan aside, like getting out of debt aside, just you guys going through, let's pretend that there was no debt to pay off. Just you guys being in a world where both your paychecks go into the same account. And as you spend, you let, you know, there's transparency and what's yours is mine. She won't do that. She would be willing to do it. I think I just have to kind of engrave the importance of it more often to her or just have that one good conversation about how serious I am about it and see if she, see how she feels too.

36:38So, go ahead, John. I was going to say, it's not about engraving, dude. It's the opposite. it. Like, I want you to sit down with your wife tonight and say, we've got a one-year-old, we created a human together. And I don't feel like I am like that we're, we're united in this marriage and I want to be all in with you. And the way I want to start being all in with you is I'm going to put all of our money in one account and we're going to have to talk about it. And we're going to share stuff because I don't feel safe with our money situation right now. right okay and you and so instead of trying to engrave it in her like i gotta force this plan i want you to do the opposite i want you to take a knee in front of your wife and open your hands and say i'm scared to death with how we handle money and if it happened in your house in a negative way i want you to say i lived through this right and i don't want our one-year-old growing up like this and y 'all make almost 90 grand you 85 grand and you owe 20 000 bucks y 'all and have this done in like six to eight months.

37:40Right, right. And then I don't care about like, you're going to miss six months of a one-year-old's life so that you can have the rest of the life that y 'all want to build. Okay. You get what I'm saying? Absolutely. But if you go at a spouse who's kind of on the fence or doesn't really care with a bunch of spreadsheets and a middle-aged man who like yells, get out of debt, they're just going to blow you off. If you go to them and say, I'm scared to death that I'm going to repeat the same mistakes my family made and I don't want to do this, will you be all in with me? And if you are, I've got a plan that millions of people have used and it will work every time.

38:18And can I add something to that? I would also, if I were in your position, I would seek to understand what's giving her pause. Like, why is she feeling that trepidation against you? Do you always have a scheme? Is this like scheme number 50? like you were selling essential oils last week and avon the week before that and like hot yoga the week before or is she just like pretty much immature kind of does what she wants to do i want to say it's a little bit of immaturity okay she's just not not as responsible with money do you do you venmo her for babysitters um so thankfully our her grandmother's not charging us i was being sarcastic but like Do y 'all have been to each other for like, dude, you got Wendy's last week, so I got Arby's this week.

39:08Do y 'all really? Yes. Okay, that ends today. That ends today. Okay. Okay? That's how roommates in college handle stuff. Right. But there's something, the truth is some of it might be immaturity, but there's something behind that. There's something behind that. Totally. There's something of she wants to protect herself or it's a way. Embarrassment, she doesn't make enough, whatever. Yeah, embarrassment. It's a way for her to reward herself. There's something there that it'll be hard for you to get to the bottom of changing that without understanding her perspective. Wrong or right, it's still her perspective.

39:41The more you can understand it, the more you guys can get on the same page. So I think that the plan of working the baby steps is secondary to understanding why there's not a trust to combine finances. So that's thing number one. and then as you unravel that you can start to do these things. Dave talks about and Rachel talk about there's a nerd and a free spirit in every relationship. And so tell her you'll take the role of the nerd and what that means is you'll create the draft of the budget when you'll sit down on Sunday nights just to run through it. And she gets to change one thing at least.

40:24And y 'all go but you'll create the framework you'll create the draft but y 'all gonna sit down and y 'all are going to go over this thing. But all the money is going to go into one account. We're never Venmo-ing each other again because it's our money. This isn't yours and this isn't mine. And when you get a big bonus, it's going to be y 'all's. And when she gets a big bonus, it's going to be y 'all's. And when y 'all have babysitting, when y 'all have food costs go up like crazy because of inflation, it's going to be y 'all's problems that y 'all handle together. You know what I'm saying? Right.

40:55Absolutely. Yeah, this conversation could transform your marriage. Or it will reveal your marriage, right? Yeah, exactly. I've been trying to figure out a way to manage it without, I guess, poking the bear per se. How long have you been married? So we actually got together two years ago. But how long have you been married? So I want to say about a year now. I want you to know how long you've been married that's a number you need to know you need to dial that one in I'm sorry Anthony that was funny to me if you ever have to refer to your wife as a bear and I know you're playing but like when you say I don't want to poke the bear that tension is the doorway conflict is connection you gotta go through that if you keep working around it if it's unsafe you gotta go somewhere else but if it's just immaturity, I'm going to do what I want to do.

41:56You've got to go right through that. Otherwise, you're going to just recreate the same trauma that's been in your family for generations. Ooh, good question. It's the next right call, man. Yeah.

42:20you know when i became a dad something flipped suddenly it wasn't just about me and my wife anymore it was what happens to my family if i'm not here tomorrow and things like that just hit different when you become a parent. But I'll be honest, making a will feels heavy and complicated, and it's not exactly what I want to be doing with my time off. But here's the deal. Being a parent means doing the hard stuff, especially stuff that protects your family. And that's why I used Mama Bear legal forms. No hassle, no lawyers, just a simple online tool that helped me create a legit will in about 20 minutes.

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43:30All right, welcome back. We're here in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio taking calls about your life and your money. I love this show. I love that you guys call in. I love that you trust us with your situations. It means a lot. That's what Allison's doing from Omaha, Nebraska. Allison, you're on the line. How can we help today? Heck yes, I am. Miss Jade, Dr. Deloney, thank you guys so much. This is weird and really exciting at the same time. It's our honor. It's our honor. What's up? Yeah, so my fiancé and I are at a crossroads on how to handle finances, and there is a difference in economic status and a family business involved.

44:08But because that's not complicated enough, we decided to try for a child and instantly succeeded, which is great. But once that happened, his tone has now changed regarding combining finances and even getting married legally at all. Uh-oh, uh-oh. Yes. A little marching band of red flags. Yeah, man. Okay, so how long have you been together? Oh, man. I'm not laughing at you. I'm just like, pass the picture. I'll pour another one. Jeez. So has this guy just done a 180 on you? Yes. I would like to dance around it and pretend that it's anything but. But it is dressed up in a really nice package. But when it gets down to it, it's a little hoodwinky.

45:02Okay. Sorry, Jake. We've been together four years. Four years. So what's your question? How can we help? There's like 50 questions here I got. But what's your question? um is there is there a way around structuring things that I can we can make him and his family business and all that feel secure while also providing security for me as a stay-at-home mom oh so okay I see so tell us the economic uh unbalance there tell us what his family business is, what it's worth, what you think he's worth, and then tell us about you. Yeah. To the best of my understanding, he was in finance before. He's coming in with about $4 million.

45:50And then the family business is about$15 to$20. However, they do leverage a lot of debt. So at least to me, a lot of debt. That's like$1 to$5 million a year they can take and go through. For myself, I have no debt. I've got a little under$600 ,000. Own a home in Nashville. Had a great business that I shut down in order to come and be a part of this. Again, like 110, working only 10 hours a week. So you work in his business, his family's business? I help out probably more than I should and don't get paid. But I had my own business prior that I shut down in order to move and be a part of this. So did you say, let me make sure I understood, did you say that you help out and don't get paid at all or you get paid for something, but then you go above and beyond that and don't get paid for the above and beyond?

46:47Well, I don't have an official role in this business and I've been given a credit card, which he thinks I should be happy with that, that a credit card should be security enough. Got it. Okay, so there's problems here. There's problems everywhere. Let me ask you this question. The most perplexing thing to me is why aren't you running for the hills? Because I have the most beautiful baby and I... I know, but you... There's a piece of me, and I'm so sorry to cut you off. There's a piece of me that I just want to make sure that I've unturned every rock. You have. Oh. You have. Oh, ow. Behavior is a language.

47:40This man has said, I do not want you a part of my life. Unless it is as an unpaid employee who does whatever I want, whenever I want it, however I want. Period. Right? I'm so mad and so happy I called. Right? Yeah. Behavior is a language. You are desperately trying to hold on to a picture that is right and is good. And you have sacrificed a whole bunch to get here. And as you have sacrificed, he has continued to pull back because he'll take everything you got, including your dignity and your respect and your work and your job and your time. he'll take all of it because you keep putting it on the table

48:29did he even offer a prenup in the discussion leading into this it was always I don't believe in prenups I would never get married with a prenup it was all that kind of discussion he just changed it to and I'll never get married either I think that's the thing if you had told me something like Like he offered a prenup and I didn't want to sign it. That would have been weird. But I'll be honest, the fact that he didn't even say it let me know from the beginning. He was planning all along not for this to go through. That's kind of the way I see it. Because a guy like this, he would be planning to protect his assets upon marriage, right?

49:15I mean, you're right. There's a big difference. There's a family business. it would be totally fine for him to offer that and say, hey, with my family business, here's what I have to do. And you'd be like, sure, fine. But the fact that he didn't even say it or mention it like that makes me know, oh, he wasn't even intending to get married at any point. Yeah. Things got even more squirrely when there was like this push because I do have this credit card, which, by the way, I spend less than I ever have before when I was supporting myself. The credit card's for you to use for yourself, not for the business.

49:48It's for you to just live on? Is that what it's for? It's what I pay for our child. Yeah, Jade, and she should be happy. Exactly. When he was pushing for a budget, I said, perfect. I can live within a budget. I mean, I made my first million before I was 20 and lost all and don't want to do that again. But I was like, how much do we make? And I've never even been able to get an answer of what that number actually is. Can I ask you a question beneath the question? Oh, I guess. You're real smart. And you're real accomplished. How much of you're trying to force this fantasy into reality, even against the wishes of the person that you created a human with?

50:38How much of this is, I don't have another word off the top of my head right now, but is embarrassment, sunk cost fallacy? I'm too smart and too accomplished. I've done too much to have fallen for this. It's like, I've got to make this work. Otherwise, it's going to be tough to look myself in the mirror. Probably more than I want to acknowledge. Okay. I want to let you off the hook for that, man. We've all made mistakes with money. We've all made mistakes in love. We've all like gone all in on something and had it burn us. That's just, that's the human experience. What I don't want you to do is like, you're an amazing woman and you've got a little kid now.

51:20And I don't want you to end up in ash over trying to make something happen. Your partner is being very clear. I do not want to be in a relationship with you unless it's 100 % on my terms, which means it's not a relationship.

51:37Is that fair? That's fair. I'm heartbroken for you. I appreciate the directness more than you know. Yeah, I'm heartbroken for you. We'll be thinking about you in the next right move you've got to make. But these are hard conversations moving forward. And by the way, you're about to find out how much he makes when you file for custody. All those documents are about to be laid out on the table. So there we go. So sorry.

52:19The holidays can come with a lot of pressure to spend. Family, friends, secret Santa at the office, all the things. But y 'all, this season should be about peace, not payments. That's a big reason why I love Fairwinds Credit Union. They share the Ramsey values of helping you reach your money goals without debt. And with the Fairwinds Smart Bundle, Ramsey fans get a no-fee checking account, a high-yield savings to grow your emergency fund, and the exclusive Ramsey Be Weird debit card. It says, debt is normal, be weird, right there on the front. So every time you use it, it's a reminder that you're doing your money differently.

52:57So this Christmas, skip the credit cards and celebrate progress, not payments. Spend with peace of mind, knowing that you're sticking to your budget and staying debt-free. And check out the Fairwinds Smart Bundle today at fairwinds.org slash Ramsey and open up the smart bundle and grab your exclusive Ramsey BeWear debit card. That's fairwinds.org slash Ramsey. Fairwinds is federally insured by the NCUA.

53:44All right, all right. So I just want to tell you guys right now, thank you, thank you, thank you so much for listening to the show, for liking the show, for subscribing to it. You guys even go so far as to share it with your friends, which is even better if you're doing that. Please keep doing it. It helps us out so, so much, and we're grateful. It's a small gesture that makes a huge, huge impact. So, again, if you've ever liked the show, hit the little heart. if you've ever subscribed by smashing the button or if you've ever shared it by sending the link, sending the paper airplane, dropping it in a DM.

54:15We truly, truly, truly appreciate it. Thank you so much. Keep doing it. All right, let's go to Mac, who's in Chicago, Illinois, Chitone. What's up, Mac? Hey, how you guys doing? I'm a big fan of the show. Thanks for having me on. Yeah, you bet. What's up? My question is around investing. I'm not sure what to do with my cash and my extra money at the end of the month. I am investing fully in my Roth 401k. I'm doing 15 % there and kind of maxing it out. But I have a lot of extra cash left over just sitting in my savings account. And I feel like I should be investing. I don't know how to start. I don't know what to buy.

55:02and there's definitely a little bit of fear behind it too because I don't want to make the wrong choices and I don't want to lose it. So I'm calling for some financial guidance. Cool. I like this question. You're awesome, man. Yeah. Appreciate the call. Way to go. So you're already maxing out a Roth 401k. Now are you just maxing it out or is it 15 % of your income? Well, it actually comes out to 14.5 % of my income is maxing out the legal limit. So it's kind of yes to both. Okay, good. And you're at the right stage of investing, right? There's no debt. You have three to six months saved. That's correct.

55:44I've got about 25K emergency fund. I don't have any debt. It's so funny. I called the show about four years ago when I did have debt. And now I'm totally debt free. I love it. So good. Okay, so you got$25 ,000 emergency fund. How much did you set? You said there's extra sitting in your checking that's just above and beyond you need to invest it. How much is that? Yes, it's currently$110 ,000. And though it feels good, I know that probably shouldn't be sitting in cash. And so that was really the genesis for my call. And then on top of that, I'm able to save$2 ,500 a month. And I don't want to continue doing that.

56:27Yes, that's correct. So before I tell you about the investing, I want to get a snapshot of your life. Tell me about your living situation. Are you renting? Do you own a house? Yes, I'm currently renting. And though I would like to follow the baby steps and buy a house, I'm not in a position to do so right now. I am financially in a position to do so. But the way my life currently is, I don't know where I want to live long term. I don't know where my next job is going to be within the company I'm in. I'm open to relocating to advance my career. So I really don't, I'm not in a position to buy a house right now.

57:05What's the timeframe on all that? Is it in the next two to three years? Probably, yeah. Okay. Well, I will say, so I'm going to pair your living situation with your investing question. I will say you've got the$110 ,000. I think that's a great start for a down payment. But you know, like I know, wherever you end up in the United States, real estate wise, it's going to cost you a pretty penny of a down payment to even get into the world. I'm looking over here at our, you know, on our Ramsey Trusted site where you can see the housing market trends. And I'm just seeing that the national median median price for a home is$424 ,000, right?

57:45So even with something like that, if you want to get that to 25 % of your take home, you're likely putting down around 60%, right? Like you're putting down a lot. even if you make$100 ,000 a year. So that's a lot of money. So part of me says what I would do if I were in your shoes is I would keep investing the 15%. But as far as this$2 ,500 in margin goes, and as far as$110, I might keep it in a high yield savings account and just keep plugging away until I know that when the time comes and I'm gonna buy a house that's likely$400 ,000, that I can easily plop down a big enough down payment that that thing is not too big of a piece of my world.

58:22Does that make sense? It does make sense. And that's what I'm currently doing. Like all the cash I have is in a high yield savings account. However, I think that's your question about time. Is that the 110? Or you have something above that? Okay. That's the 110. About your previous question on timeline, I thought you meant like when do you think I would relocate? And that would be in two to three years. In terms of when I think I'm going to buy a house, I really don't know. And that's something I just haven't decided yet. Well, I still like the idea of when the time comes, you having like$250 ,000 or$200 ,000.

59:02I don't know, but it sounds like the type of work you do might cause you to be in an area that has higher real estate prices. Am I wrong? That's correct. Okay. So for that reason, that's why I'm saying I like that plan because you're getting the best of both worlds. What's your income, by the way, right now? um about 170 to 180 grand a year yeah exactly so you have a really great income that would be my plan now let's say you stack that up to 250 000 you're like jade i really feel good with this i'm going to keep that in a high yield i'm still not ready to buy then yeah i would look over and i'd probably in your case it'd be easy for you to max out on a roth ira every year you know you throw$7 ,000 in there and let that grow.

59:46Now, as far as what to invest in, because I think I heard you ask that question. Correct. Yeah. Four types of mutual funds. And by the way, hopefully your 401k is spread out like this too. But four different types of mutual funds is what I would suggest. We're looking for growth funds. We're looking for growth in income. We're looking for aggressive growth. And we're looking for international. You might hear that stated as mega cap, large cap, small cap, and mixed markets or emerging markets. So that's kind of how we do it. It's just a way to make sure that you're very diverse, everything's spread around.

1:00:23Some of them are higher risk profile than others, and it all balances each other out. And that's the way my money is invested. And that's the way John's money is invested. So that's how I do it. But you also asked a question at the beginning. And your question was, I want to make sure I don't lose this money? Yeah. Part of investment is a risk. Of course. Yeah. So you can put all of that in there and the Q4 NVIDIA number comes in lower. And since the stock market's been propped up by 10 stocks the last year, or maybe even longer, like it could be volatile, right? And so that might go down. And the day it goes down, I'm still going to make my same contribution because I'm playing a long game with it, right?

1:01:06That's correct. And I'm definitely going to continue to do my 401k. That's something I don't think about. It's definitely a long-term thing, every check, you know. But in terms of my current cash is where I'm concerned. Yeah, I guess I want to double-click on what Jade was saying. Part of investing, or let me ask you this, what are you going to do with a big pile of money? i don't know i guess that's why i was calling i'm just saying like in 10 years or in 15 years you're gonna buy a place to live that's correct yeah right and so i i just want to double click on what jade said i think it's so right if you have a quarter million dollars in a high yield savings account number one some bros somewhere are going to come after you who cares because here's what you'll have that they don't 250 000 to do whatever you want whenever you want yeah and if you want to go put 25 down on a million dollar house you can just write a check you know who else can be in this country not very many people and if you want to pay put 50 down on a 500 000 house great like you'll be able to just chip away at it and chip away at it i love the idea of you having cash for like like real estate as part of your investment portfolio over time you know what i'm saying yes i understand yeah that makes a lot What I don't want you to do, you're going to get itchy, is to get into speculative stuff and crypto.

1:02:39That's where I think you're going to get yourself in trouble. Yeah, and that's definitely something I don't plan on participating in. I think it's like I even have an initial fear of investing in the stock market with funds. And I know I probably should be on top of my 401k. Just remember, it's the same that's in your 401k. So if you're looking, if you log in and check out your 401k and you feel good about it, you feel good about the growth, you feel good about what you've seen, it's the same stocks. And if you're still unsure, you can check out a SmartVestor Pro to help you learn a little bit more.

1:03:15And we'll make sure you get that information from Christian when he picks up.

1:03:28you

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1:04:53it. All righty, Hannah in West Virginia, Virginia, Virginia's for lovers. That's the saying. What's going on? Hi, guys. Thank you so much for taking my call. I'm a big fan. I appreciate it. Well, we're happy to have you on. Thank you. So my question is, how do I eliminate or consolidate my debt as a single mom? My monthly expenses are higher than my take-home pay. Ooh. Well, you know, I can tell you all of the tools all day, but that's a math problem right there, Hannah. Yes, I know. I moved up to West Virginia from Mississippi in the hopes that I would be making a little bit more money in the career path that I'm in.

1:05:44I don't know that I did the math the correct way before I moved up here. What's your career? I am in property management for student housing. What's your income? I make$77 ,500 a year before taxes and insurance and everything. Before taxes. So after, I mean, what are you,$4 ,600? I bring home about$2 ,300 every two weeks. Yeah,$4 ,600. Okay. And then what does it cost to make your life? Is it your rent that's too high? What's going on? It is rent. It is daycare, car note. I had zero credit card debt moving up here. But since I have moved here, I have accrued about six grand in credit card debt.

1:06:37And that's just closing the gap on your budget, right? I don't think you're going out living La Vida Loca. I am not. Tell me what you pay for daycare every month. It is$1 ,400 a month. Ooh, mama. Tell me what you pay in rent every month. $1 ,590. Okay, that's not that bad. That could be worse. Is that a two-bedroom or a one? It's two bedrooms. Okay. How young is the child? I mean, they're daycare age, but how young? My son is 18 months old. I think you've got to get a one-bedroom. Oh, man. Is there a chance you can move? I've spent my career working with these adjacent campus villages at universities.

1:07:23Is there a chance you could get into a campus apartment for a while? I where I work is not directly affiliated with the school I know but with the with the adjacent campus community would they give you a place I I've never heard of that I would ask to be honest with you I had never heard of it either until I asked and then because I was in charge I created it for myself but my wife and I and our infant I mean our two-year-old toddler moved into a campus living environment for a year. Okay. And it changed our whole life. And it wasn't the best thing in the world, and it was not how I drew it up, but it ended up, dude, my two-year-old son had like 175 college students.

1:08:06They're just fawning over him all the time. It was a dream come true for him. Yes, that's awesome. I will definitely look into that. Thank you. You know why? Because it's going to, quote unquote, help you with the student experience and help you with marketing, blah, blah, blah. You know all the right words you've got to say. Agreed. Yes, that is correct. The university technically considers any off-campus housing to be in direct competition with the university. And we're actually not even allowed to market on campus. But anyway. Well, do you live on your property? I do not. No. That's what I'm talking about.

1:08:45Is there a possibility you can move on to the property? Oh, yes. I would have to reach out to my supervisor and all the things just to see if we had like a concession. Of course. Reach out today. Yes, we'll do. Yeah, reach out today. We'll do. I love that idea. I know that there's – it's a great idea, yes. I know that they – there's like a list, like a company-wide list for however much they can allot per property. And all of my current staff lives on site. Fire somebody. I'm just kidding, but maybe. I did two weeks ago. Oh, there you go. You got to find a place to live. But there's a bigger issue here, and that is, do you need to reconsider going back to Mississippi?

1:09:35I relocated up here because I was not going to make even this much money doing what I do in Mississippi. Is it time to find a new career path? i've been doing this for four years i know but you can't afford to live that's right if you were in another situation and you told me that you made 78 000 a year i i'd be like okay great that's a fine that's a there's that's a fine income you didn't call me telling me that you're making 40 or even 52 i think the price the problem is twofold number one you're in a season of higher expense whenever you're in a daycare season. I mean, John, you know, I know daycare is expensive and it's not forever, but it is some, the most expensive four to five years of your life.

1:10:23Um, so that's thing. Number one thing. Number two is this car. Tell me about your car payment. I, my car note is$600 a month. That's the bit. Yeah. How, how different would your life be if you had that$600 back? It would be much better. Yeah, you wouldn't be putting it on a credit card every month, right? Yes, I wouldn't have to put daycare on a credit card every month. Right. So tell me, tell me the situation. What do you owe on your car? Currently, I owe 24 ,000. And what is it worth? Last time I looked, I believe it was worth about 13 ,000. Oh, boy. and you're positive that's private sale that it's been a minute since i've looked so don't quote me on that it could be completely different but around about 13 000 do a little homework on that tonight it sounds like you might have rolled some negative equity in there at some point but just do a little homework what other debt is there anything else besides the car and the credit card no i i don't have any other debt other than the car loan and my credit card debt so I go back to what I said before do you know anybody where you are or are you just brand new no friends no community yet no community yet I'm working on it I'm trying to get involved with a church in the area um I packed myself and my son up and we just this was my better opportunity.

1:11:54Where is this child's father? Not, has never been involved. I told him I was, you know, pregnant. He told me to get an abortion and I haven't heard from him since. Okay. But he still has a financial responsibility for this kid. He does. Yes. And I am working on that. Okay. That would help you significantly as well. yes it would so if you were to look up in 90 days and you're getting at least some money from deadbeat and you're living on campus at a free or reduced rate not on campus but on your property and you go trade this car in and you go to a local credit union and take out a$5 ,000 loan because you found somebody to sell it and you're going to owe$5 ,000 to a credit union and you got a cheap crummy car your whole life is different then right yes yeah yes those are the i mean those are your your three homeworks number one is check out the campus thing if the campus thing doesn't work then you at least have to go down to a one-bedroom to save some money you're going to save you know 300 bucks by going down to a one-bedroom thing number two like john said yeah we need to look into this car do some due diligence on that yeah see if you can get a loan for the difference and you're buying like a$3 ,000 beater, which is, you know, that's what you're getting the loan for to cover the difference plus a little bit to get a car.

1:13:25Yeah, that's what this is looking like. And then number three is, like John said, tracking down deadbeat dad and getting what you can get from him because you need the money. Listen, I hear you. I know just bringing up the man's existence is hurting you on the inside because you're probably like, I don't want anything to do with him um and i don't want to need his money but you you could use it right that is exactly how i am feeling yes and i always said that no amount of money you know was worth you know putting my kid in the hands of someone that i don't trust but you're not going to put him in his hands but on behalf of the dads who the greatest thing in our life is the privilege of taking care of our kids.

1:14:10This guy's got a responsibility and there's hopefully the courts will step up and do the right thing and he needs to participate. The only other thing you can do is try to figure out something you can do at night once the baby is home that you can do from home that's online. Maybe you edit papers or you do, you know, copy editing or something that you can do on your own time to make money.

1:14:46Hey guys, George here. You know I hate debt, and that includes sleep debt. I've been there. Fatigue, low energy, brain fog, and that's why I switched to Casper. My Casper mattress helps me sleep easier, cooler, and deeper. And now every bedroom in my house has one. On top of that, Casper ships free, comes with a 100-night trial, and if you don't love it, they'll come pick it up. So let's ditch the sleep debt and build sleep wealth. Go to casper.com slash Ramsey and use promo code Ramsey for 30 % off all mattresses and up to 35 % off everything else. That's casper.com slash Ramsey, promo code Ramsey.

1:15:24Exclusions apply.

1:15:46All right, you guys, the all new EveryDollar, it's here. And it's now way more than just our world-class budgeting app. As a matter of fact, there are tons of new and advanced features that are there to help you make faster progress with your money. As a matter of fact, the average person finds thousands of dollars in margin in just the first 15 minutes. So if you want to get into it, if you want to get involved, you can start every dollar today for free. All you have to do is get it in the App Store or in Google Play. All right. Mark is in Detroit, Michigan. Mark, what's up? Hey, how you doing, guys?

1:16:23Doing great. How can we help? So I kind of have a weird question for you. So quick history. I was married 17 years. I've been divorced about a year and a half. And my ex-wife and I, we followed the Dave Ramsey financial model. Okay. We did it right. Like, I feel like our story is unique in a divorce in that we didn't walk away like ruined financially. Good. But, well, yeah, but I feel very, I guess, disillusioned with it, I guess, a little bit in that. I feel like we put our entire thought and everything into making sure we did everything right financially. Yeah. And we didn't fix anything else.

1:17:06And I feel like now we're sitting here 17 years later, a couple of kids in high school, lives destroyed, and I don't know what to do. It's like I have a stack of money. I have retirement. So does she. Our kids are fine. They're going to go to college no matter what happens do you feel like you used this in place of dealing with your real issues is that what you're saying you kind of both just focused on this instead of yeah i think it was like all i cared about was the money side of it and i was so focused on making sure that the balance sheet was right that i we i i lost everything else and and i'm in a spot an hour I really don't know what I want to do I mean it's it's like work doesn't really feel like it has a lot of meaning anymore even though I do it and I go every day when was your how soon was your divorce over brother a year and a half ago okay exhale man you still haven't even started the grieving process yet like you're still mad yeah well I I feel like I failed um like I feel like like neither one of us did anything like i feel like it wasn't like some some neither one of us like did some terrible thing or anything else that it was just we just got to a point where it was like after 17 years we just didn't even didn't even know who was who and you know what i mean we just we just both walked away and i don't know how to recover from that i don't know what to do next but my kid like i have a condo now my kids are like well why don't we get a house why don't we build a house.

1:18:39I can build any house we want, but I don't want, I already had that. I don't want it again. You know what I mean? I'm just really struggling with what now? I'm going to tell you, I'm just going to be honest with you. You're not going to like my answer, dude. Because you've built a really powerful, like, wall between you and feeling something. And it's probably been there for a while.

1:19:09And you're going to keep spinning your wheels until you open the door and let yourself feel this. And that feeling is probably going to be overwhelming because it's been there since you were a kid. Because somebody said, if you go get good grades and make a bunch of money, then you're going to feel worth being loved. And then you got married to somebody who you loved and cared about and you all created an amazing family. But you were still trying to prove yourself to the guy in the mirror for all these years, man. and until you acknowledge I'm worth being loved and I'm worth more than the spreadsheet and the balance sheet you know if you until you grieve that man it's good you're going to continue to chase it yeah I just I just don't know like all like all I care about is my kids and like I hate I only get to be a dad half the time I mean there's nothing I wouldn't do or give them or or give their mom or anything.

1:20:03Like there's, there's nothing, you know what I mean? I just want them to be good. And I hate that, you know, Hey, I get my week and then all of a sudden there's a week where I get to, I sit in my living room and I can't go say goodnight to my kids. It's called grief. I don't know. I wouldn't, I wouldn't wish, I wouldn't wish what you're experiencing on my worst enemy. Well, why like circle me back. Do you, do you and your ex, are you all on good terms? We, we co-parent great. To be honest, we get along better after the divorce than we did for the five years leading up to it. Okay, then why not go sit in a coffee shop and say, what have we done?

1:20:47Why not go sit in a coffee shop and say, hey, look, we chose, especially the last five years, a miserable marriage. What if we chose something different? Because we both can. and we chose to walk away there's no rule in the books that say two people who built a pretty amazing life but got so disconnected emotionally and relationally and spiritually that we just thought the next right move was just we bought into the one of the most insidious cultural lies which is relationships just quote unquote run their course it's bullcrap it's a lie it's not but you can also start things. Why wouldn't you do that?

1:21:35I don't know. I think it's a lot of years of hurt, a lot of years of things. Don't care. You cannot edit that story at all. There's a period after the end of that sentence. Why not today write a new one? Can I ask a question, Mark? I mean, was there a moment, like was there infidelity? Was there one of those big bombs dropped? It was just, we just drifted apart. It was just after a couple of years of sleeping in different rooms and just basically just not caring about each other at all in either way. And just getting to a point where it was just like, you know what, neither one of us can live like this.

1:22:12Okay, but you have to go back all the way up. You're too smart with the spreadsheet to not get what I'm trying to say here. Yeah. At some point you chose to stop caring. and that means you can choose to start caring.

1:22:30It's a choice. It is not a feeling. I don't care how much Hollywood says it is.

1:22:38I just spent an entire weekend with 1 ,400 people, 600 plus couples up here in Nashville leading a marriage retreat where we taught people how to rebuild your marriage from the floor up. Now, I'm not trying to push you into getting remarried to her. What I want to tell you is the next choice you make is a choice. The next thing you don't do is a choice to not do something. And I'm trying to empower you as I'm trying to do.

1:23:05But you know and I know that 18 months later, sitting on the couch and just with your face in your hands, wanting to see your kids, isn't the next right step.

1:23:20Right. going to see a therapist and saying, I've not liked the guy I see in the mirror since I was second grade. I want to deal with this is. Maybe calling your ex and saying, what have I done is. Maybe calling and saying, I miss the kids. Can I come by and see them in the evening? Because we're good co-parents. Maybe that, I don't know what the next right one is, but you have to regain your autonomy here amidst this black hole of grief. And at some point, dude, you have to feel it. or your body will shut you down. And it feels like that's what it's doing to you right now. It's starting to spiral and spiral and spiral.

1:24:01Yeah, there doesn't seem to be a lot of light at the end of the tunnel. That's right. And there can't be any light when every day you go home and sit on the couch in a dark room.

1:24:13And here's what I'm trying to give you. I'm trying to give you your power back. that yes, like the feelings you have are real and you're now a partner in this misery, which means, I'm trying to give you a good side to this, that means you can be a partner in walking towards a light somewhere.

1:24:36Do you get what I'm saying? Yes, sir. Do you believe you're worth even taking that step? Or are you just sitting at home thinking, and I failed my kids, I failed my wife, I failed everything, I failed myself. Well, there's a lot of that. I'm not going to lie to you. Okay, then here's the path. Because I'm a guy that your job is to make it work. Okay. No matter what. Then good. Then we're going to make this one work. You're going to write yourself a letter tonight. Two years ago, you, you're going to write that guy a letter who's sitting at the divorce table, and you're going to write a letter to yourself in five years about who the guy you're going to become because of the choice you started making today.

1:25:11Go make it happen, brother.

1:25:30Hi, friends. Rachel Cruz here. And today we're doing our singles day sale. On 11.11, you can snag some of our best deals of the season. Right now, you can grab the Total Money Makeover, Baby Steps Millionaires, the Get Clear Career Assessment, plus the holiday editions of Questions for Humans and more, all for just$11 each. You don't want to miss this. When Singles Day ends, so does the sale. So head to ramsaysolutions.com store and stock up while you can.

1:26:11Welcome back to the show in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio. I'm here hosting with Dr. John Deloney. I'm Jade Warshaw. Thanks for listening to The Ramsey Show. We've got Dave, who's in Los Angeles, California. Hey, Dave, how can we help? Thank you so much. I just found you guys this weekend for the first time, so forgive me if what I'm asking is something you've covered through the years. Dave, we're just glad you're with us, man. We're glad you're with us. I'm excited. Yeah, dude, no apologies needed, man. Everybody's showing up new and pulling in at their own pace, so I'm glad you're here.

1:26:46Excellent, excellent. I'm a single father, and I went through a major family crisis three years ago. The type of family crisis that is, you know, life or death, as a result, to deal with the expenses of that, I went into$140 ,000 of credit card debt, and I have no regrets. I would do that again every day because at the end of the day, the crisis was resolved and that money was well spent. However, the credit card debt is crazy. I mean, some cards are$22 ,000. Others are$32 ,000. And the interest on that ranges between 25 % to about 32%. So it's killing me, obviously. I'm treading water, no disposable income, no backup money whatsoever.

1:27:43If I had another crisis, the type of real crisis, I would drown because, you know, just enough to do just every bare minimum for the cards and just enough to put gas in the car and just enough for decent meals, but nothing crazy, no vacations, etc. What do you make? What do you make every month? I make a decent income. I'm in California, so it may seem like a lot here, but it's not when you have a mortgage and all of the things. Hit me. And luckily... Hit me with the number. Oh, I'll give you a yearly. No, give me monthly. Monthly? Yeah. It's about$4 ,200. No, sorry, that's for paycheck. Okay,$84?

1:28:35We're looking at$84. Okay. Math was never my strength. That's all right. We're walking with you. So you've got the$8 ,400, and like you said, you are in California, so I've got to assume that your real estate is higher. You own a house? I do, and I fortunately have a 30-year fixed rate with really good interest, like really good before the pandemic. What do you pay every month for that mortgage? Okay, so one paycheck goes to the mortgage. That's one of the paychecks, and the other paycheck goes for the bills. So half of your mortgage is 50 % of the problem, is 50 % of your take-home pay? Is that what you're saying?

1:29:16Yes. Okay. So almost. Your house is not a blessing, brother. You got to change your mindset on it. It's not. It's killing you. The mortgage is a bigger problem than the credit card debt almost. It's killing you. I hate to tell you that. We're telling you that because we love you, dude. There's a little twist. The mortgage normally won't be that high coming in March. I went through the crisis. I couldn't pay my property taxes and I couldn't pay my, um, I couldn't pay my property taxes. So you're doubling up right now. Is that what's happening? Yeah. My mortgage company basically did an escrow and, um, and to pay for the back taxes, um, my mortgage went up, but it's going to come down about$1 ,500, um, in March.

1:30:00So I'll have a little breathing, I'll have, you know,$1 ,500 of breathing space, which we'll put in some of those kind of cards, but, you know, not as much as I need because some of the interest is obviously going to gobble that up. All right, well, here's the thing. Here's what you're going to have to do. You're going to have to either, and this is me just being a direct because I care about you, okay? Either, man, you are a smart guy, you make a good salary, and your heart is bigger than the moon, dude. You're an amazing guy. And you're going to have to figure this out. or if you get with this crazy crew over here in Nashville, Tennessee, and we've got millions of people who've gone through this and it's worked, you're going to have to say, I'm going to surrender all of the old ideas I had about things like a good mortgage rate is always a blessing or the interest rate here and that.

1:30:53But we have a process and I promise you it will work if you'll follow it. But you got to go all in, okay? And no other little influencer-y person can get away with what we say, which is it works 100 % of the time if you'll run the plan. Okay? Jade's going to walk you through it, but you just got to be all in. How old's your kid?

1:31:15By the way, I have two things that were offered to me, which is the purpose of my call. So I just want to make sure we get to those. But my child is five years old. Five. Okay, good to know. Okay. Okay. So I was just trying to attack the first question that you had, which seemed like the credit card debt was an issue. I wanted to know what your time was like and what your ability is to earn more money. Knowing the age of your kid helps with that. If you have a toddler at home, it's a lot different than if you have a 14-year-old at home. But what were the other two parts of your question that you had?

1:31:48so the reason for my call is because i got two offers to deal with this and not knowing what you've said previously on this topic i am because i'm really tempted to go with either of these two okay um because i don't have any more income because i'm spending as a single dad the every minute of my life with my baby i mean she's the world and and i'm all alone get into your question because we don't want to hit the clock on you. Got it. Okay. One agency hit me up and said, look, we will help you. We will negotiate all of your... No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Don't do that. Don't do that. It's a total scam.

1:32:27Total scam. Promise. It's not that consolidation, but they said they would, you know, if I go, you know, don't pay them for 60 days. No, no. All that's going to do... Ask yourself two questions. If you don't pay them, what's going to happen? and your credit's going to be destroyed. And during that time, all they're doing is setting you up for negotiations. If you really wanted to go that route, couldn't you do that yourself? If you wanted to say, you know what, I'm just not going to pay them. I'm going to default everything and then I'm going to settle everything. Couldn't you do that yourself if you wanted to?

1:32:59Yeah, sure. You don't need anybody to do that for you. Okay, good. But don't do that. You don't have to do that. You don't have to do that. I was trying to set you up for a world where you can say, okay, right now I'm making minimums. there's not much breathing room. What can I do to get more money in the door? And that would be my biggest question is what can I do to get more money in the door? You're right. It's going to be very tight for you until March or April. And there's part of you that if you want to, you know, take that horse to the Old Town Road, that's fine. Because once you do, you're going to be well within, not well within, but you're going to be way closer to being able to keep this house about 600 bucks off.

1:33:36I don't think I'm going to make you sell the house over that just yet. But in the meantime, you've got to be doing everything under the sun to get money. We can't just do nothing for the next four months. You've really got to make sure that you are exhausting every single effort to get more money in. And what I would do if I were in your shoes is I'd say, okay, what do I need? What would make me feel like I'm making a dent in this? Is it$2 ,000 a month to put at the smallest credit card? Is it$1 ,500 a month? And I would work backwards from there. Can you take your kid with you to do some DoorDash and to do some Uber Eats.

1:34:13I think you can. I've seen it. And to do some grocery runs for folks. That's what you've got to do because that's the only way you're paying this off. And I can tell you right now, there's not going to be anything comfortable about it. There's not going to be anything easy about it. There's not going to be anything about this that makes you look forward to it, except knowing that at one point you're finally going to pay it off and it's going to be behind you for good. That's it.

1:35:00What's up guys, George Camel here. What if I told you that you had thousands of extra dollars hiding in your budget right now. Listen, I know how crazy that sounds. You're thinking, dude, I'm broke. My money's tighter than the middle seat on a spirit flight. But believe it or not, you've got more margin than you think. And our EveryDollar budgeting app helps you find it. In fact, the average person finds$3 ,015 on average in just the first 15 minutes. That's like giving yourself a huge raise without an awkward conversation with your boss. Now look, this isn't magic. You're not hitting the lottery.

1:35:30This is just your money that we're helping you reclaim and reorganize. And EveryDollar shows you how to make the most of it so you can make faster progress on your goals. So don't miss out on thousands of dollars of margin. Go start EveryDollar for free by downloading the app in the App Store or Google Play right now.

1:36:01All right, all right. hey, do you ever feel like you're doing everything with your money, but you're just not getting anywhere? You ever feel like you're taking two steps forward, one step back? Do you ever feel like Alan, who called in a couple hours back and said, I'm gazelle intense, but still not where you want to be with your money? Man, I know all about that. Maybe you've made the changes. Maybe you've had a few wins, but something still feels off. It's not because you failed. It's because money is not just about math. And John, I've been saying that over and over across the airwaves, that money is not just about math.

1:36:37Money is so completely emotional. I mean, you've probably heard us say it for years here that money touches every area of your life, right? It touches your relationships with your spouse, your relationship with your kids. It touches your spirituality. It touches your career. Your relationship with yourself, the shame, the embarrassment. everything. And so when you listen to a show like this and you have a situation like earlier when the guy called in and he said his wife didn't want to combine the money, remember? And we are trying to get to the bottom of that. Guaranteed is something emotional that happened, whether something she observed as a kid in her parents' household, something that happened with the boyfriends.

1:37:15There's always something behind it. So when we say, hey, combine your finances, it's never as easy as just one, two, three, right? When we tell somebody, hey, you're going to have to sell that car and they say, well, wait a minute, that was my gift to myself when I finally finished med school. And that was huge accomplishment that that's attached to a feeling of achievement for me. It's not always easy, right? There's always, I don't think we talk about right now. Everybody knows like we were just talking off air, how unfathomably expensive things are. It's wild. And we're getting more calls than ever about people making 70 grand, 80 grand, a hundred grand that are just duct taping things together right now.

1:37:55nobody talks about and I'm so glad that you do now nobody talks about that sitting at the table feeling with your face and your hands like you have failed your kids like you have failed your spouse like you're just going to be just like everybody else in your family that sense of it's easy like I quote unquote know what to do next right spend less and go make more but if it was that simple everybody would be doing that There is a wheelbarrow full of emotions in there. And nobody talks about that moment when the lights are dim in your kitchen by yourself with your hands in your face going, I don't know how this is going to work.

1:38:34And man, that's why I'm glad you put that down. Yeah. John's talking about my new book that just came out. It's called What No One Tells You About Money. So good. And it is. It's the real key to getting unstuck from someone who's been there, which is me. I've been there. I've been in your situation. Just what John was talking about. that moment where you look up and you go, my life is not what I thought it was going to be. And I thought I would be X, Y, Z by now. I thought I should have this by now. I thought I would have that by now. And you do. There's a lot of things that hit us. You feel frustrated and you feel scared and you feel angry and you have shame and guilt.

1:39:06All of these things. I talk about it all in the book. And it's not just me pontificating. It's me giving you practical steps on how to get out. John, that's what we do here. We tell you, we tell you the problem, but then we tell you step by step how to get out. And it's the same thing with this. If you walk through the frameworks in this book, you are going to go, oh, oh, Jade, now I know what it is. I just needed you to give me words for it. I didn't know what it was. And now I see it. Now I can see how that's been holding me back. Yes, I will do it. So please, guys, this is the book. It's on pre-order now.

1:39:39It's$24.99. And if you order it now, you'll get$100 in free bonus items. You'll get the audio book. You'll get I do a video where I go through and do a financial checkup with you, like one-on-one. We'll walk through your numbers and it's really helpful. And guys, I'm going to do a book club of this book. It's going to be a three-week book club where we're going to really unpack this thing together. So if you've just felt like you needed something, you need somebody to grab your hand, I'm the one grabbing your hand. I'm reaching out. Grab it. And I'm helping you. Come on. Let's do this together.

1:40:14This is your year, man. And pre-order today at RamseySolutions.com slash store. Or if you're watching on YouTube or podcast, of course, you already know. Click the link in the description to get your copy. Guys, please don't wait on this. I know we sell you a lot of books, but this one is completely different. I'm telling you, man, you can look at me. You can already tell it's going to be different. All right. Keaton is in Denver, Colorado. Keaton, how can we help, man? Hey, guys. Thanks for taking my call. You bet. How can we help? So my question is, how do I start a business as the sole provider to my family?

1:40:52You don't sleep very much for the first couple of years. Yeah, I kind of thought the same. I just want to know, I'm kind of a newer listener to the show, and luckily I don't have any debt. And I know that's what you guys talk about a lot, which is awesome. And I'm lucky enough where somehow without the Ramsey plan, I got there, but I'm here. Oh, you have common sense? You know how to do elementary school math? Congratulations, man. That's awesome, dude. Well, I'm here, and I just want to know, like, what would the baby steps for me look like, the different set of baby steps for starting a business and potentially walking away from my current career?

1:41:34because I worked really hard to get to the position where I'm at, and I'm making over six figures now, which is awesome. What six figures? Six figures can be a lot. It can be$101 ,000 or it can be$901 ,000. So how many figures? Tell me the real figures. Okay, the real figures is I'm making just over$100 ,000 a year. I'm in sales, so half of that is commission, half of it is salary. What business do you want to go start? Um, I, so that's another part is the business I would want to start. I, I'm a, I'm a sales rep for a manufacturing company and I would essentially want to go into direct competition.

1:42:15Um, and the issue with that is I, I feel like I can't start it unless I walk away from my current position. I think that's fair. I think that's right. And, um, that that's an integrous way to do that. So if you were to walk away from the job, what could you do? in the meantime as a full-time job that makes money while you start building up your book of business, doing the business you want to do? Well, I could probably, I mean, I've done a lot of things in the past. I was a bartender for a while. I worked, I've done a bunch of different jobs. So I'm sure I could figure something out. But in my industry, without going into competition, I could probably make about$25 to$30 an hour while I'm building this business.

1:43:04Okay. Well, that's – Just get a – here's the deal. I want you to focus on the math problem. Mm-hmm. You – are you married? I am. Yeah, and we have two kids. Okay. So you and your spouse are going to sit down and just go up and here's how much money we need to survive for 24 months. Okay. And then I'm going to commit to making this much or if she wants to be a part of this dream too, then – I mean, she's got to be a part of the dream, but like contribute, like then I'm going to take on, she's going to take on a second job or she's going to stop doing X, Y, like, here's how much it costs to run this house.

1:43:37Here's what we can cut for 24 months. Here's my investment in this thing. And here's how we're going to know dollar amount. Is this being successful or not? Now you have no debt, but do you have any money saved? I do. And I guess, I guess the other wrench to throw is I'm renting right now. We don't own a home, but I'm debt free besides not owning a home. That's not a wrench. It's fine. So I rent, but I have about 70 grand in savings right now. Okay. Yeah, I think that's the homework. Number one is make a list of what can I do in the meantime to bring in money, whether it's, like you said, in your field, you can make however many dollars an hour, but you need customers first, right?

1:44:17So that's not like you can start that necessarily tomorrow. So we need to make a list of what we're going to do in the meantime until your business gets off the ground. And we need to figure out exactly what that number is. What does it take to make our household run? Is it$5 ,000 a month that we need? Is it$6 ,250 a month that we need? And whatever that number is, now we work backwards in order to accomplish it using that list of skills and jobs that we said we were going to get. So that's what I would do. And then just on the more practical side, you know, this is I don't say this in the way that I don't believe in you because I actually I actually really do.

1:44:51I think you'll do this and you'll kill it. But maybe possibly for your wife and just for fairness, set boundaries around this and say, here's like create a plan and say, here's what the plan is. Here's how long I think it's going to take to actually get this thing off the ground. here's how long I'm willing to be in this amount of income bracket here's where and here's also the point that we turn it off if for some reason it's not making money right go ahead and put those boundaries around it because that's going to a light a fire for you to go quickly and really make stuff happen and number two it's going to make your wife go okay I can get behind this there's a starting point there's a succession point and there's a turn off button if it doesn't work out

1:45:50you spend hours researching before making a major purchase like a home or car but it's also a good idea to put in the work searching for the right insurance coverage to protect your biggest assets I recommend using Ramsey Trusted Pros. Whether you're looking for car, home, or any other type of insurance, Ramsey Trusted providers have been coached and vetted to serve you like we would. Find what you need at RamseySolutions.com slash insurance.

1:46:36Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm John Deloney joined by Jade Orshaw. Let's get into that Ramsey Show question of the day, shall we? We shall. All right. You already know it. The Ramsey Show question of the day is brought to you by YReFi. When your private student loans are in default, it's easy to feel ashamed or stuck. But don't worry. YReFi will not judge you. They'll help you rebuild, refinance, and regain control. So just visit yrefy.com slash Ramsey. Remember, that's the letter Y-R-E-F-Y dot com slash Ramsey. And it's not available in all states. This question comes from Paige in Missouri.

1:47:14Paige writes, my husband and I are struggling to balance everything right now. We are$25 ,000 in debt, which will be paid off next year. Combined, we earn around$100 ,000 a year. And between rent, home expenses, and our one-year-old, it feels like we can never get ahead. I've thought about getting a second part-time job, but I feel guilty leaving my baby longer than I do now. Man, that keeps coming up over and over and over, man. Should we put everything on hold, including parenting time, church obligations, and personal commitments to focus on paying off debt faster? Or is there a better way to balance faith, family, and finances without burning out?

1:47:53Ooh, you know what? I really, I love this question, John, because it's so real. I mean, you just wrote a book about this question. It's such a real thing. And it's a question of priorities. And I think it's a very difficult question because everything wants to be the priority. Everything does. And I've said this before, I think with you, it's very easy to say, I want to prioritize getting out of debt. And then we also say, well, I also want to prioritize being a parent. And then she's got another laundry list. Well, what about my faith? What about my family? What about my church? All right, let's pretend that you have said the number one thing for me to do is I want to get out of debt.

1:48:37That's the number one thing. That's top priority. It's going to butt up against other things that are saying, but no, I want to be the top priority. So you're feeling that now. You're feeling saying, well, wait a minute. I have a one-year-old. Is it a one-year-old? I have a one-year-old. What about them? If I pay off this debt, I'm not prioritizing them. But that's simply not true. There's different ways to show priority, okay? You could say, well, I'm not prioritizing my baby if I'm not spending time with them, but that's not true. There's ways to prioritize your family, like providing a roof over their head, like taking care of them, making sure there's food on the table, making sure you can be there for them in the long run, making sure that you don't make your retirement their burden, right?

1:49:17Let's stop saying that the only way that we make our family a priority is to be there every waking moment of the day. That's just not true. And that's something that we have to like square up with in the mirror. If we ever want to get this thing done, you're right, John, this has popped up a couple of times today. And I just want to say that it's a harsh reality, but it's a true reality. And I can say that as a mom, it doesn't feel good to leave your kid. As a dad, I don't like leaving my kids. I like hanging out with my kids. It doesn't feel good, but remembering what's true. And this is what I talk about in the book.

1:49:49The things that we tell you to do, I get it. It sounds good in the moment. Yeah. Just pick up a side hustle. No problem. 700 bucks a month. Bam. But then when you actually go home and start thinking about it, you develop these fears of, well, what if I, what's your biggest fear? Oh my gosh, if I do that, my child is going to forget about me. I'm going to be the worst parent ever. They're going to end up in therapy. No. And I've found, John, with fears, they can be rational or irrational. We know that. And a lot of times when I find that there's an irrational fear, it tends to be on the vague side.

1:50:19It's kind of like, oh, if I do this, it's going to ruin everything. Be specific. That's right. What do you mean by that? Ruin everything? If I do this, it's just my church obligations, my personal commitment. No, no, no. What do you mean? Because if we can dial it down to something true that's actually rational, then we can figure it out. If you said to me, Paige, well, here's the thing. If I work extra, we have this thing on Wednesday nights at my church and I'm the one that's responsible for bringing the meal. And if I don't bring the meal, then 70 people don't have food for Bible study, right?

1:50:50That's a very specific problem. Then I will say, well, can't you just call Natalie and ask her to bring the food? That's right. Right? Now we can solve the problem. So you have to ask yourself, do you even really want to solve the problem. So if you do, let's get specific. Number one, let's figure out and let's accept, hey, there's more than one way that I can prioritize my family. And in this season, the way I prioritize is I make sure this debt is paid off and that they have a life financially. And then number two, whatever it is I'm afraid of, can I please drill it down to something that's real and rational so that I can actually solve the problem and see if it's even true that this, you know what I'm saying, what it is that I'm spinning out in my brain.

1:51:24So that's what you need to do here. You're going to have to let these other things, church, family balance, I put that in quotes, personal commitments, let those be number two, number three, number four, number five, number six on personal commitment. And in this season, for this short period of time, let yourself prioritize putting your family first by getting your financials right. And that's all I can say about that, John. I mean. yeah it's it's short-term pain for a long-term gain man every time it's like i'm gonna this is gonna be awful right now for the next five months getting we have two thousand dollars of margin or we have two hundred dollars we're gonna we're gonna scratch and claw we're gonna sell some stuff and we're gonna look at do we have to have i mean i'm talking about getting radical in people's homes like with the the way we live get radical about it please please do and i love that you said that because you're, you're going to have to say, I feel like I'm saying this all the time.

1:52:25You're going to have to sacrifice. There may be a season when you got to move your, your thermostat down and you got to wear jackets and get under blankets. Or you sell your furniture and you sleep on an air mattress or you go down to one. Right. And, and thank you for saying that, John, because I want you guys to know, I'm never going to tell you something that I've not done myself, but you're talking to somebody who sold all the furniture in their house. And I sold my house and moved into a dorm. Like you just do what you got. And I, thank you. We, we, we, we, I drove a$3 ,000 truck. It's like, you do what you got to do what you got to do.

1:52:58We were a one car household for 10 years. The people on this show are not just, we're not just making it up. We're telling you the things that we would do. And that's what we would do. The things that we have done. Yeah. The things that we've done. Exactly. This is what it takes. And change requires change. That's all I can say. And it's rarely easy. It's never comfortable. That's just part of it. And I feel like that's the drum that I'm beating today, because I want people to understand that when you're in a marathon, you will feel pain. Like, that's just part of it. John, again, this is in the book.

1:53:32When you're running a marathon, some days you go out and it's sunny and it's 70 and the birds are chirping and it's great. Same thing with your money. Some days you wake up, you're like, man, today feels like a great day to pay some bills and you're paying the bills. You feel good. You're not mad about paying a little bit extra on your spouse's student loan. You feel good about it. The check came in today. Everything's good. But then other days on the marathon, you wake up, it's stormy outside. It's cold. It's rainy. It's the big raindrops that hit you in the eye when you run that you just, they soak your clothes immediately.

1:54:01And it's the same thing with your money. Some days you wake up and you're like, really? This is what I get? I've been working 10 years at a job I hate that I I barely make, and this is what I get, a crappy car where the AC barely works, right? And you want to throw up your hands and you want to quit, but you can't. You can't quit. You have to keep going. You have to keep going. It's not easy. And that's fine. It's good that it's not easy because then at the end, what it produces in you, John, is somebody who can go the distance, who can sacrifice to win, somebody who can look at things as what they are and go, you know what?

1:54:34That makes sense. That doesn't. I can take some of the emotion out of it. I can control the emotion. It's not just, well, this doesn't feel good. It really does. I was, last night I was in Chicago and I was sitting with a great comedian named Matt Taylor. We were talking and he was talking about first starting comedy and having to scratch enough nickels together to either eat or have a place to sleep. but he talked about where he is now. And he says, the strength he has now rests on the, I had to figure it out. And so now I know what I'm made of. And so things don't scare me in the now. And it was that sense of, if you don't know what you're made of, I don't think I could go without the house being at 76 degrees, but I promise you, you can.

1:55:21I don't know how we could make it without, if we sold these two recliners and I promise you, I promise you, you'll be okay. Well, people are adaptive. And that's the thing you have to remember. People, I don't know. I always like likening it to COVID. But there was a time of life where we wore masks over our faces. And we got used to it. Everywhere. Everywhere. And you get used. That's just how the humans are. We will adapt to anything and be like, okay, this is what it is. I'll make it work. And yeah, that's how it is with your money. There for a minute. My grandmother didn't have Chick-fil-A.

1:55:52She had chickens in the backyard. All right. That's how they did it. You'll go to sit where the recliner once was, and the first time you'll fall back thinking it was there. And then after that, you'll learn, oh, it's not there anymore. And you get used to sitting someplace else because that's what you'll do and you'll be fine. Guys, keep going. Do not give up. Do not give up. Do not give up.

1:56:35All right, our scripture and quote of the day. He has shown you, oh mortal, what is good and what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy and to walk humbly with your God. That's Micah 6.8. James Clear said, every action you take is a vote for the type of person you wish to become. Love it. That's such a great line. It is such a great line. It's so true. It's your choice. Every single one of them. All right. Rex in Providence, Rhode Island. Hi, Rex. Hey, how's it going? great first of all first of all me and my friends big fans um but um current i graduated college back in may i have a little over 75 000 in debt but uh i was blessed to promptly get a well-paying job my major and currently my expenses are uh i mean effectively zero i was wondering how to best capitalize on the situation and get those debts paid off as quick as possible How are your expenses zero?

1:57:36Yeah, so I mean, after college, moved back home. And I'm pretty blessed in my job. I'm constantly traveling, and those travel expenses get paid for by my company. So I'm effectively besides having a girlfriend and doing stuff here in there, playing golf. Effectively, my mandatory expenses are zero currently. Got you. What are you earning? So right now, currently around$6 ,200 a month. 6 ,200 a month. Love that for you. Okay, so listen, you told me you have nothing else to pay for. You called the wrong show, brother. You're not going to like what we say. I'll tell you right now. Hit him with it, John.

1:58:15Okay, you said you got a grown-up job, so now you have to start doing grown-up stuff. And that means you make 6 ,200 bucks a month. That means in Halloween of next year, you're going to be writing your last check for your student loan. So the loans do get deferred, so this is the first one that I have to pay for. No, no, no, no, no, no. Well, no, I was going to say, so I've been saving since starting a job. I currently have about$25 ,000 saved, and I was wondering, do I just go right at it? Yes, your balance is now$50 ,000. Congratulations. You keep$1 ,000 aside. Gotcha. Keep$1 ,000 aside. That's baby step one.

1:58:56You just need that there just in case, something to fall back on. It's not much, clearly. but yeah now you're now you're at 51 000 and then you can cash flow the rest it what could you i'm i'm just guessing can you put five thousand dollars a month on this uh i'm that's currently what i what i am doing it's amazing brother that's all you gotta do then yeah get it done and listen every i was just there's just so much conflicting information i know i know people you know telling people to invest and you know let the money work for you before getting to it but I'm going to tell you, like, here's the deal.

1:59:30Everybody's going to consider investing like building a house. Everybody's going to be telling you, you want your house to look like this? No, you want a house to look like this. You can't build a house in a hole. And you're in a hole right now. Right. And every single person around you is one word, broke. Right. Every adult next to you at church, broke. The people you work with, their lives are owned by car companies and mortgage companies. and credit card companies. They're owned. And you just have to choose, brother. I'm going to simply do life a different way. And this is me desperately. You can hear it in my voice.

2:00:10I'm desperately talking to 21-year-old me who got out of college, got my first big boy job, made a whole bunch of money, and I ended that first year out of college in more debt than I started. And you're not me. I'm just telling you, like, dude, you have a chance to change the entire trajectory of your life. Can I tell you something else crazy? Yes. When I was your age, the job I have right now did not exist. There was no such thing as a podcast, YouTube, social media. Why do I tell you that? The thing you have right now is not going to last forever. Right. And so if it goes way up or if it goes sideways or heaven forbid, even goes down, put yourself in a position where you don't owe anybody anything in the world and you've got your own place.

2:00:55You've got some money in the bank. So when whatever happens, happens, it will be a rocket ship for you, not a pushback even further. You get what I'm saying? Right. You're right. Absolutely. Bro, you got it. You got it right in front of you, man. You got like a path in front of you. Jade and I are sitting here like, you just got to walk that path. Ten months. Just walk the path. Ten months and you're done. Or be even crazier. Do it more. Do it more. Put$6 ,000 in a bunk and do it in eight months. Just get it done, man. Absolutely. All right. Bro, you could be done, dude. Done. Done, done, done, done, done.

2:01:29Do you think he's going to do it? No, I know he's not. Bro, listen, Rex, if you buy crypto, whatever, dude. No, I think Rex might do it because he did tell me that he could spend$5 ,000 on it. I think he might go on ahead and do it. All right. I think everyone's going to give him so much smoke. Like, I thought you were making money. Why are you broke all the time? He's like, I'm trying to get a debt. He doesn't have to tell him. All right. Ben is in Des Moines, Iowa. Don't tell him, Rex. Hey, what's up, Ben? How are you? Good. How are you guys doing? Good. How can we help? That's good. Hey, I'm in college and I'm a young 20-year-old.

2:02:03And just trying to figure out some ways, some practical tips to really be frugal with my money. How can I stay motivated with that instead of spending more? So how do you stay motivated to be frugal? Yeah, motivation is dumb. I rely on motivation for almost nothing because it's fleeting. Yeah. What are you asking for? Yeah, I mean, honestly, it's just trying to save money in the long run to have more in the end. It can't just be for nothing. What's the money going to be for? Yeah, that's too amorphous of a goal. I mean, I'd say for college mainly, so I can pay that off. Okay, so what are you doing currently?

2:02:46Tell us about your life currently and what you're trying to get to. Because if you're trying to save up to pay off later student loans, then I would say, well, let's talk about paying cash for college now. Okay. What are you trying to do? Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I would say just saving up trying to pay for college. And then, like, also, I'm really not working anywhere. So, like, how can I really be frugal with that so I don't, like, go spend it on other stuff that I maybe don't actually really need? Don't spend it on other stuff. Yeah. How much money do you have? What do you, how much do you make?

2:03:24I mean, I have like 200 with me. Okay. So you got 200 bucks? Yeah. Okay. And how often do you make the 200? Is it once a month, once a week? I make it once every two weeks. Okay. So you got 400 bucks a month and it's like, what's the best way? If I were you, I'd throw this in a high yield savings account. When does school start? When did it start in August? Okay. He's in class right now. And how much is it a semester? Let's work backwards. I think it's$5 ,000. Yeah, you don't even know. Right? Yeah, no, I don't. Yeah. Okay. Let's get some real information, some facts in front of us. You're asking us to do something for you, brother.

2:04:10With all due respect, you're asking us to do something for you that we can't do, which is if you've got$200 in your pocket and you know you're going to spend it, then you have to have the discipline to put$200 in the bank or to give$200 to your friend. You've got to make choices for what you want to do. That's perfect. That's what I need. Let's give you some homework. Number one, you're going to find out how much your tuition is so that you know, here's something for me to aim at. Then once you know the tuition, then it's like, okay, what do I need to do to pull in$1 ,500 a month so I can start to tackle some of this tuition?

2:04:47right so now you can reverse engineer it and say what is that per month what is it per week and start working on that um that's what i would do um right now is not the time to focus on investing or focus on anything uh yeah it's to save up to be able to pay cash because when next semester comes you want to be able to pay cash for it so that that would be my biggest goal and if you can work some extra hours it's okay to work part-time while you're in school studies show that you do better you're a better manager of your time so i would do that um how many hours are you working so far? Like six usually.

2:05:20I try to get like 15 hours a week under my belt. That'd be my goal. Or more. Okay. You know, start, start with that. If your grades aren't suffering, up it a little bit, right? Or double it. But if your grades start suffering, you need to pull back because that's the whole point. No point in paying for something that you're failing at, right? Yep. So balance that accordingly. But that's, that's exactly what I would do if I woke up in your shoes. And like John said, use that why use that goal as your I'll use your word motivation to do this. But it can't just be for the moment. You have to think about what life is going to feel like four years from now if you don't do it.

2:05:59Right. Do you want to wake up in a pile of twenty thousand, twenty five thousand dollars of debt when this is all said and done? Forty thousand. I don't think so. So that's your motivation right there is the future. All right, guys, thanks for hanging out with us. Remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.