Get Out of Survival Mode So You Can Finally Move Forward

29:38Emergency. Wow, good for you. I work for the money. You do work for the money. That's serious. Serious trauma, stress, and everything else, yeah. Now it's time to treat this debt like an emergency. Yeah, there you go. Hey, listen, you're going to get this. You're going to knock it out. I'm proud of you. And I'll give you one last prediction, Elizabeth, and that is that the more you get down into this and the more you see it is working, the more you're going to turn up the intensity. And so I think you're going to be done even faster than two years. I think the income is going to go up and her expenses are going to go down.

30:14Yeah, I think she's just going to say, I'm getting such a high off of paying off debt that I'm going to do, I'm going to just crunch it and crunch it and punch it and punch it. And man, when you do that, it's just, but you can't feel that today until you feel it. So once you get in there though, and it starts moving. When it goes from 300 down to 200, then it's 99. Yeah. Oh my goodness. You're going to be running. I remember the first time I ran a half marathon, I remember turning the corner and there was a half mile to go out of the 13.2. but you could see the tape on the finish line. And I just run 12 miles.

30:48And yet I found somewhere down inside, because you could see the end. And I was able to sprint. Your body and your brain go, we can do this. I was able to go kick it in for a half a mile. But you could see it. You could see the end. And then there's more in the tank than you believed you had.

31:21If you run a small business or work for yourself, health insurance isn't just a personal choice. It's a business decision. And the wrong plan can wreck your budget fast. Right now is health insurance open enrollment. And if you want your coverage to start by the first of the year, you've got to sign up by December 15th. and I recommend using Health Trust Financial to help make your game plan. They've helped families and business owners for over 20 years, and they're the only Ramsey-trusted health insurance advisors. Health Trust Financial Advisors cut through the confusion, explain your options in plain English, and help you find a plan that fits your life stage and budget.

32:04Most Health Trust Financial clients save hundreds of dollars a month, money you could reinvest into your business. So don't roll the dice this year. Protect your family, your business, and your financial future with the right plan. Go to healthtrustfinancial.com before December 15th to get started. That's healthtrustfinancial.com.

32:44Solomon is in Montana. Hi, Solomon. How are you? I'm doing good, Dave. How are you? Better than I deserve, sir. How can I help?

32:56Currently, I'm at a crossroads in my life where things can go a lot of different ways, and I'm just looking for guidance on what you would do in my situation. Okay. yes what's your situation so i'm currently ending my football career i spent eight years in college on scholarship uh seven at usc and then one over here at the university of montana and along that time i got my undergraduate degree and my master's degree and i got married and had two sons, but I'm stuck on deciding whether or not to stay here in Montana where I love it, and we found a good church, but I have a lot less connections out here compared to Utah, where a lot of my family is and where I have a lot of connections, and I'm close to the church out there that we were attending to for a little bit.

33:56Mm-hmm. Okay.

34:02Are you in a metro area in Montana? Yeah, so I'm in Missoula right now. Okay. It's about like 100 ,000 people in Missoula. So it's a big enough—what are you wanting to do? What's your career goal? So I'd like to make use of my education, and I have my undergraduate degree in business administration, and my master's degrees in project management. And I'd want to do something with that in construction. And I've been trying to look for jobs in both Utah and Montana, but, man, it's hard to get a job out here, man, especially with no experience, you know? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Have you talked to anyone in those fields or even in the project management field?

34:48Yeah, I've been networking a lot, And I have a strong connection to one of the biggest construction companies in Salt Lake through one of my uncles who's married in. But, yeah, I mean, I just love Salt Lake. It's a hub. It's huge. It's mean. And out here in Montana, it's harder to make connections, but the connections you do make are a lot stronger. So I've been trying to network out here, but it seems a lot harder being there. How are you making a living today, sir? You know, on scholarship, they usually give you a monthly stipend.

35:36You're breaking up on us. Yeah, I didn't get the last part. I heard stipend, and then that's all we heard. Are you still there? Yeah, I'm still here. Okay. So normally we get a monthly stipend, And that's all I've been living off of the past eight years. Is your wife working outside the home? No, she stay at home full time. We have a 22-month-old and a six-month-old. Wow. What's the stipend every month? How much are you guys living on? About$1 ,500. You're living off of$1 ,500 a month? Yeah. Plus some EBT food stamps. Okay. So here's the thing. Um, you, you obviously want to stay in Montana, your, all of your verbiage and your sentence structures are saying that.

36:22Um, but you also know that it's probably not going to happen because you're probably not going to land a good job there with a limited connections and the smaller area. So it may be that to start your career out after college, your first job after college, which is what we're talking about, that you end up in a major metro area, like your Salt like gig, you go take that for a few years, and then you make connections across the construction industry. You get some experience under your belt, and you may or may not move back to Montana someday. But for now, probably to take advantage of the education that you've got and actually make a good living for your family, because we just don't want EBT to be in your future, man.

37:09Man, that's just silly. Yeah, I wouldn't stay on the poverty line because I like my church. Yeah, or because I like Montana, either one. So, no, I think you go get a job right now as soon as possible and take that. And there's nothing evil about either one of these things. If you can get a good job there in Montana, take it. But if you can't, take Salt Lake City and get your butt in the car and go. And you can, you know, you got the rest of your life to do stuff. There's no rule that says you have to stay just because you went there. You can go over there, and it's an adventure, and, you know, we're going to give this two or three years.

37:46You just put a number on the calendar. We're going to give it three years. We're going to go over here and work our tail off for three years, make some money for the first time in my life, build up my tool belt of experience, and then I can decide where I want to live. And I can decide how maybe you want to open up your own thing someday. I don't know. And then you can start doing that. But for today, it's time to, for the sake of your family and your sanity and your pocketbook, it's time to go make some money as a result of this. And that's not greed. You've poured your whole life into football and into getting this advanced education.

38:22Now, for God's sakes, go use it. Go do something with it and get the most out of it. Squeeze it to where every drop of juice comes out of it. And that's a good thing for you. It's a good start to life for you. So, yeah, I'm taking, if you can't, you know, you got two weeks. You don't land something in Montana, I want you to land something in Salt Lake and be gone. You got two weeks. That might be an entry-level project management job that's not in construction right now, but you need some experience in order to make that final move. Yeah. And that's going to be, you might have to swallow your pride a little bit and go, I have a master's in project management.

39:01I deserve this. But you've never done anything yet. Yeah. So, yeah, go get her done. That's what I would do. Austin is in New Orleans. Hi, Austin. How are you? I'm doing great today, guys. How about yourself? Better than I deserve. How can we help? Well, guys, I was hoping to get some strategy advice from you all on a debt pay down. So just to kind of give you a 30 ,000-foot view, my wife and I currently have a net worth of approximately$650 ,000. And we currently have debts of$198 ,000, which is spread across four rental property mortgages. So your personal residence is paid for? Yes. We're in the fortunate situation where we have a home that's held in trust that we will inherit whenever my parents pass away.

39:50And that's where you're living? Correct. And that house is free and clear. Okay, cool. That's cool. All right. And what's your household income? And approximately$165K gross. Okay. So the only debt you have are four rentals? Correct. So we have four rentals. One of them is paid for, and then we have mortgages on the remaining three. Okay. That's your only debt,$200K? Correct. Okay, cool. All right. I guess you've got two options, right? I mean, it's a baby step six affair. So you need to have three to six months set aside of expenses, be putting 15 % of your income away towards retirement, and money that you find above that is maybe step six, you begin to pay off real estate.

40:36It's usually the home we're talking about, but in this case it's real estate. I'm going to list them smallest to largest and pay them off. How quickly can you pay off$200 ,000 making$165 ,000?

40:49I don't know. We haven't done the math on that yet, but that does not. That$165 ,000 does not include the rental income that we're bringing in from them. So currently we bring in$4 ,750 a month in rent. And then to cover our PITI for those properties, we're looking at about$2 ,500 to$2 ,600 a month. So we've got about an extra$2 ,200. By the time you have vacancy and expenses, you're not making any money. We end up clearing about$1 ,500 a month after we set aside money for maintenance, CapEx, etc. Yeah, it's not. Yeah, still not. You're not. That's not moving the needle towards. That's 18 grand a year.

41:27You owe 200. That's not OK. So I'm probably looking at those four properties and going, which one do I like the least? selling it and dumping all of its equity and getting rid of its debt, if it's one of them that has debt, and dumping all of it to accelerate this. Because I would rather you have a program that you're going to get out of debt faster than you are with this program. You don't have enough money to throw at$200 to get out of debt fast enough to suit me. I would want to be out of debt in three to five years if I'm you. 50 grand a year, you're done in four years. And if you sell one, it's done even faster.

42:03Yeah. Yeah. I think that's the plan. You got to be at that. That's a good point. You know, 50 grand a year is for you. That's the way to do it. If you can't do that, I think selling one is a good move. Yeah. Agree. That's a perfect move.

42:33Hey, it's Dave Ramsey. You've heard me talk about the importance of giving, and I love that Xander Insurance lives that out. This month, Xander is donating 25 % of all ID theft protection sales to Team Rubicon, a veteran-led disaster response organization that deploys wherever disaster strikes, boots on the ground, helping families rebuild, and offering real hope for communities in crisis. Xander's been supporting causes like Team Rubicon for over a decade, donating over half a million dollars. That kind of track record shows I can trust them, not just with my money, but helping protect my identity too.

43:17Xander's ID theft protection plan is the only one I recommend because, let's face it, identity theft is out of control. In today's online world, it's not a matter of if, but when. Xander's plan is comprehensive, affordable, and you can even give it as a gift. So protect your family and support a powerful mission this Christmas. Go to Xander.com or call 800-356-4282. That's Xander.com.

44:01Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union Studio. I'm Dave Ramsey. George Camel, Ramsey personality, number one bestselling author, is my co-host today. Catherine is in Reno. Hi, Catherine. How are you? Hi. Thank you so much for taking my call. I'm great. Thank you. Good. How can we help? Well, my husband and I retired in 22, and we were going to build our house from the ground up. The first year, we lived in a trailer as we were putting in the well and bringing in electricity and laying the foundation. and it's now three and a half years, almost four years later, and we still can't get in the house because he's afraid to take money out of the 401k to hire people to help him.

44:50So you're still in the trailer? No, we are not still in the trailer. We were able to do that for one year, and then my husband said, no more, we're renting an apartment in Reno. Okay. And what's it going to cost to finish this project? I figure it's going to cost between$1 and$150 to finish the house. How much is in your 401k? Yeah. How much is in your 401k? $700 ,000. Okay. And how old are you guys? He is 71. I am 69. Yes, you should pull out$150 and finish it immediately. Thank you. I just want to sit on my front porch and have coffee with him in the morning. It's time. Yeah. Well, I mean, this was a bad plan.

45:38Yeah, it sounded good, and we were— It didn't sound good, because you didn't have a plan to get the house done in a reasonable period of time. Yeah. It's hard on a house to not get finished. Yeah. If it's not—you know, you've got to get the thing in the dryer. It starts rotting down on you. Yeah. I mean, you guys have been drag-butting along for three years on this. Yeah. Yeah, this was a bad plan from the start. But now we're where we are. For God's sakes, let's get it finished. It's a small percentage of your overall life, and you're not losing the money. You're just investing it in real estate instead of 401K.

46:19Right. Now, it's not going to create an income there in the house, but it's also going to get rid of the rent. Yes. Oh, yes. That's huge. How have you guys been living so far? On what income? He has a pension and Social Security. And so you haven't even touched the 401k since you've been retired? Yes, that's correct. Yeah. So if you continue down that path, even the money that's left in the 401k would double after about seven years. Yeah, that would be awesome. So you're 76 and you're sitting there with, you know, a million dollars. If you leave 500 in there and it doubles. Yeah. That's a pretty good life.

46:58so much better. No, thank you, you guys. I hope he's convinced. That's the big question. Is he going to go along with this? Yeah, I think he will. I think he's getting tired of it, too. So it just, you know, it just took him getting tired of it all for me to, you know, want to ask. Yeah. Well, he had this picture in his mind of being able to build this house with his own hands, and he didn't understand how hard it was going to be and how long it was going to take. That's very true. And now that, so we're kind of giving up that little macho dream there. Yeah. Yeah. And just finish it so mama's got a place to drink her coffee, for God's sakes.

47:37He's tired. I haven't been doing this for about four or five minutes. I'm tired. Yeah, I'm half his age, and I don't have the energy for this. So I'm impressed he even attempted it. Hillary's in Vermont. Hi, Hillary. How are you? Hi, I'm good. How are you? Better than I deserve. How can we help? Well, so I'm in the process of trying to pay off student loans, and between, like, my federal loans, there's about, like, there was 21 to start with. How much? But now there's... There are 21 loans? Yeah. 21 loans. How much do you owe, Hillary? $326 ,000. Say that again? $326 ,000. $326 ,000. So are you a doctor or a lawyer?

48:25I'm a pharmacist. A pharmacist. Yeah. Wow. So you're making$120 ,000. I make about$150 ,000. Good. Okay. Are you single? I am. I'm a single mom of two, yeah. How old are you? I'm 31. Are you married? No, you said you're a single mom. You're not married. You told me that. Okay. All right. Wow. So has the balance grown because of interest? What's going on here? You've just been making minimum payments? So I graduated in 2020, and I paid off through that. I had like two separate loans. So I have paid off all my previous private loans, which was$70 ,000. And then I have my federal ones, which have been on forbearance and are still in the middle of forbearance, but I've been paying on them.

49:21Well, I've been paying on them since, like, the other one got paid off. But now the interest, and I tried to pay off as much as I could before the interest started, but now the interest is starting, and I can't seem to figure paying off. Okay. So let's pretend that you lived on$100 ,000 and you put$50 ,000 towards this. You've not been doing anywhere near that. What? This past year I was trying to put towards my retirement and plan for my retirement because I don't want to work forever. Well, that's a competing goal. You either want to get out of debt or invest. You can't do both at once and make progress.

50:01Yeah. So if you stop retirement and you stop everything and you live on beans and rice and you attack these student loans like your life depended on it, could you put$100 towards them? probably not a hundred with like my kids are seven and three so i have daycare but once like they're no longer in like full-time daycare my little less isn't in full-time daycare than i can but like i could definitely put like at least a 23 000 plus the other amount that i've been so i could probably put around 40 to maybe 50 000 yeah i want you to okay let's go let's get it to 75 which is a four-year plan. So within that, though, I was trying to pay off, like I mentioned, they're separated between 21 different loans.

50:51Yeah, you list them smallest to largest. List them smallest to largest, pay minimum payments on everything but the little one. But I want you to put in$75 ,000 a year towards debt. And if you're putting$75 ,000 towards debt. Nothing towards retirement? Nothing. Nothing towards retirement. You're broke. You have got to do something different. You've got to attack these student loans and get rid of them. They're not a pet, and they're an ugly zoo animal. Yeah. You got, I mean, you got completely screwed on your education. You paid like five times more than you should have to become a pharmacist.

51:29Mm-hmm. You know that, right? Yeah. I'm not sure why it ended up being so much, but yes, I know. Yeah, I'm not sure either because it shouldn't have been anywhere near, you know,$400 and something thousand dollars to become a freaking pharmacist. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. All right. Now, anyway, we're where we are. If you do 75 times four, that's 300.

51:55Four years. So eventually you're 100 % debt free. The goal here is to make more payments than the interest is accruing. So the balance goes down. That's the goal. And right now you haven't been putting enough toward it in order to make that happen. So we're telling you pause investing, pause everything, throw all of your energy towards that smallest debt so that you can begin to make traction. Just$75 ,000 a year,$6 ,000 a month plus$6 ,500 a month. Okay. And just lay out your budget, do that. Hold on. We'll get you signed up on every dollar and it'll help you walk through this. But you're going to have to tighten the screws down and knock it out.

52:33Otherwise, this is going to just keep staying a death cycle on you.

52:50This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. All right, the holidays are here, and the holidays are full of traditions. Some of these traditions we love, some of these traditions we just tolerate. In addition to the traditions, this time of year can also bring a lot of noise, pressure, and even loneliness. Maybe this is your cue this year to slow down and ask yourself, what really matters to me right now and moving forward? Therapy gives you space to do just that, to think, to breathe, and to make room for peace. And if you're thinking about therapy, I want you to check out my friends at BetterHelp.

53:28They've got more than 30 ,000 licensed therapists and they've helped over 5 million people worldwide with an average rating of 4.9 out of 5 stars. BetterHelp is totally online so it fits around your schedule even during the chaotic holiday times. You just get online and answer a few questions and BetterHelp will match you with someone who fits your needs. And if the therapist isn't the right fit, you can switch therapists at any time for no extra cost. This month, start a new tradition by taking care of you. Visit BetterHelp.com slash Ramsey to get 10 % off your first month. That's BetterHelp, H-E-L-P dot com slash Ramsey.

54:23The Ramsey Show Question of the Day is sponsored by Why Refi. You can't change the past, but you can change your next move. Y-Refi helps people with defaulted private student loans refinance to a payment that fits their budget. Visit Y-Refi.com slash Ramsey. That's the letter Y-R-E-F-Y dot com slash Ramsey. Not in all states. Our question of the day today comes in by voicemail. So, Kelly, give it a play. Hi, I have a question about jumping into investing at this time when stocks are trading so high. I have about$100 ,000 that I'm looking to invest. But I'm wondering if everything is so high, if this is a bad time to jump in.

55:04Am I just going to lose money? I'm a little bit paralyzed with regard to what to do with this money. It is all I have. I have no debts. I don't have a ton of property or anything. So this is my retirement savings at 65. Thank you. Wow. Okay. Well, that's a good question. Thank you for calling in with that. We would tell you to sit down with a good Ramsey SmartVestor Pro, someone that we recommend in the investing world, and have a good talk with them and start to understand your options. But I can pan back a little bit, and we can talk about the question in general. All right? In general, is it a good time to invest because the market's high?

55:47That's Sue's question, right? And so if you take$100 ,000 and you're afraid to put it in now because the market's high, you could lose money. That makes the – what you're saying is, if you really believe that, what you're saying is that the stock market is never going to go up past where it is. And there's absolutely no data to indicate that. Data that indicates that the stock market has always gone up past where it is. Like, always. sometimes it dips down but then it goes back up past where it was a hundred percent of the time it has done that so far okay we've had some dips but it always has returned and gone past where it was before and so the only way that your fear comes true is if it goes down and stays down which is the first time it would have ever happened in history and what you're saying then is is that the best and brightest companies in america that are publicly traded names like home depot or dell or apple or mcdonald's or coca-cola names like that are not going to make more money in the next few years they're going to make less money than they've ever made in history as a group see this is very unlikely so i am 65 if i had a hundred thousand dollars extra to put into something right now, I would not hesitate to put it all in the stock market in good growth stock mutual funds that have long track records today.

57:27I'd do it by nightfall, and I wouldn't even blink. It wouldn't bother me a bit, even if it was my last$100 ,000. Now, I'm not saying, Sue, you should do that because you have some fears, and the way those fears go away is with a little bit of basic history and knowledge of the stock market. That's why you need to meet with a good advisor. Yeah, there's a few questions here. Number one, should I invest when the stock market's high? Yes. Can you retire off of$100 ,000? No, I don't think so. And so I hope you have other income outside of that. But if you just pull up Google S &P 500 10 year, you'll see it go up and to the right and you'll see some scary dips.

58:06But if you go back to, you know, 2022, you'll see an all-time high of$4 ,700. Well, right now it's trading at over$6 ,800. 6 ,800 points. Yeah, 6 ,800 points. And so what you'll see is there is an all-time high every few years. And so you're actually buying it on sale today. Because if you look at 2029, it's probably going to be trading higher than it is in 2025. So that'll give you some hope if you pan back, like Dave's talking about, and get that perspective. And a SmartVestor Pro can help with that. Yeah, you can look at it and see how the market moves. The S &P 500 is an index that is the top 500 stocks on the stock market, and that basically is the New York Stock Exchange.

58:48Okay, so it basically is the stock market. And so if you follow that, you can tell what the stock market has done. The news often reports the Dow Jones Industrial Average, which is also an index, but it's just a handful of 30 or 35 stocks. It's not got anything. This has got the 500 largest companies. So it is the baseline of what we call the stock market, the S &P 500. So if you look at that and you can say, okay, what is the stock market trading? Is it a bubble? Is it an illusion? There's no indication that it is because every time there has been a dip that someone calls a bubble or something, the market has returned.

59:29because what we're saying here, this is not a fairy tale. It's not some kind of guy behind the curtain like the Wizard of Oz or something, right? This is actual companies, Home Depot. Does Home Depot make money? McDonald's, do they make money? Do they make a profit? Dell computers, Apple computers, do they make a profit? And that's the stock you're investing in. A stock is a share of ownership. So if you're one of the owners of a company that's making a profit, your ownership share goes up in value. That's a share of stock. It goes up in value. And so when you're buying a mutual fund, it's got 90 to 200 Home Depot, Dell, and Apples in it.

1:00:17Exxon, is Exxon making a profit? You stinkin' better believe it. You haven't filled up your car lately, have you? So you bet these people are making a profit. You can bet. Are some of them losing money? Yeah, a couple of them are. But the biggest, these companies as a group represent the, you know, a big chunk of the American economy. And so in general, are these companies going up to the end value because they're making a profit and growing? And in general, yes. And in general, they always have. As a matter of fact, for 70, 80 years, the S &P 500 has averaged about 11.8 % rate of return per year.

1:00:57That's the average, which also means some years it was less. Some years it was more. That's where we get averages from. Y 'all remember the sixth grade, right? And that's where we learned how to average out something. And so that's, you can pull these things up, look at it on the internet real quick, but sit down with someone that can walk you through and you get comfortable. You don't do it because a couple of dudes on a podcast said do it. You sit down and you use your brain to understand something you never understood before. And then you go, wow, okay. So, George, here's an interesting thing.

1:01:33I never understood this, but there's something maybe psychological about it. I don't know. The stock market feels far away sophisticated, and I can't get my emotions around the technicalities of it to feel whether it's going to go up or not. but you buy a home and you have absolutely zero uh guarantee that it's going to go up in value and people don't think a heartbeat they don't even think they don't sit and go i don't know if i bought if i bought a four hundred thousand dollar home would it go up in value people don't think that that does not even to enter people's minds they go of course it's going to go up in value because that four hundred thousand dollar house i remember 20 minutes ago it was three hundred thousand and i remember 45 minutes ago it was a hundred thousand you know and so i remember but i guess because we walk around in the midst of the brick and mortar and we watch this you know if you're if you're like 30 years old you've as an you've had 10 years as an adult watching real estate go up if you're 65 years old For God's sakes, you have dinosaurs in your backyard.

1:02:51You know, so, you know, you've been watching real estate go up. And so you have this historical data just kind of stored in your head, although you don't have the actual math, but you feel very safe. Yeah. With real estate. It's physical. You can see it and touch it. And the stock market is just charts, graphs. It's like, it's green and red on the news. That's all I know. Yeah. Talking heads are saying it went up. Talking heads are saying it went down. and so it doesn't feel as real. And I don't feel as connected to the stock market like I do my own home. Yeah. As it should be, but I still invest in the stock market.

1:03:25The interesting thing is they're both, you're buying both based on historical data. Has it gone up in value in history? Am I going to lose my butt based on what it did in history? You're buying both of them based on the data, but people are just so much more comfortable with a home. And I'm glad, I'm glad they're buying homes.

1:03:48Thank you.

1:04:39Owning a business can be a heavy load. by bringing all their numbers into one system, accounting, inventory, CRM, payroll, the works. And now NetSuite's AI takes it further, automating busy work, flagging inventory issues, spotting cash flow problems in real time, and catching risks before they hit. So you're not just closing the books faster, you're making decisions confidently. And when your numbers are right, that takes a lot of pressure off your shoulders. And yeah, switching systems is a big move. But NetSuite's sweet success process gets you up and running fast. Go to NetSuite.com slash Ramsey for a free product tour and to schedule time with a NetSuite rep.

1:05:23That's NetSuite.com slash Ramsey.

1:05:37in the lobby of ramsey solutions on the debt free stage mason and katie are with us hey guys how are you what's up we are hype level 100 i love it welcome good to have you where do you guys live uh parker colorado it's about 30 minutes south of denver got it cool welcome to nashville thank you good to have you i'm here to do a debt free scream i love it how much have you guys paid off uh it's uh five and a half million dollars in the last three years that might be a record for me personally wow okay there's a story here so what is your range of income pray tell during that time yeah Well, before I answer that, I want to thank you.

1:06:23This is a bigger deal than we can ever express. I'm actually almost in tears. 20 years ago, I didn't expect to cry. It's crazy. 20 years ago, I was introduced to you. I had a buddy. He was getting married, and the FPU was at our church, and we were stuck in the proverbial three-hour ski traffic coming home. And he popped in the CDs, and I'm like, live on less than you make and save and pay off debt. This guy's a freaking genius. And so I started just inundating myself with it for two to three months. I was single at the time. And God just absolutely gripped my heart. I've since become a financial advisor.

1:07:00And the long story short is because of everything that you guys have done for years. And I met my now wife three years after that. I've been a financial advisor ever since. I was an ELP for almost five years in the Denver area. So this is more than just a moment to us. We've been leading it at our churches for 15, 16 years after you. Thank you. We got four baby girls. Love it. And so, I mean, I'm hyper emotional. We're hyper emotional. But the deepest of thank yous, you literally change the trajectory of my life, which then turned into our lives, our girls' lives, our faith community, everybody, our team.

1:07:35We got team 10 people that work at our company now. I mean, it's rippling because of what God did through you. So that's why I'm choked up. And that's why we're super hype. That's amazing. I'm trying to tamper it down. Very cool. Over the moon. We're over the moon. So that's wild. Thank you very much. And thank you for leading the class all those years and all the people you've helped. That's absolutely incredible. So what was five and a half million dollars? Yeah. So the other long story short is I when we got married, came back with sixty three dollars in our bank account from our honeymoon.

1:08:06So we were broke as a joke. I was working two and three jobs and I started the path of I gave myself one year to be a financial advisor. she was working her full-time job making 40 45 at the time we finished paying off our debts when you're I think it was the Fox business show so 15 something years ago we were on there our consumer debt yeah her paid off her last student loan never had consumer debt since then and buying a house and then another house and then our third house so um the the everything grew over that time just above and beyond anything I could have ever imagined with what God did in our business.

1:08:40We're the sole owners. But then in the last three years, the business revenue has been between two and a half and four and a half million dollars. And at any given time, it's 15 to 25 % of that is going to staff and rent and all the things. And then we always had our mortgage at about that total numbers about half and half with our mortgage. And then So the other half is where two retiring advisors sold their book to me. Oh, okay. So it's not consumer debt. We didn't go take out more debt. And so it's kind of like working for free. So that was on a five-year note. We paid it off two weeks ago in three years.

1:09:17The house we put on a 10-year, we paid it off two weeks ago in three years. So that's the long story short. So what's the house worth? About$4 million now. I love it. Congratulations, you guys. I'm so proud of y 'all. Thank you. You have absolutely killed it. Yeah. Very cool. Okay, tell me about the sweatshirt. I like it. God over money. That's right. I wear these types of things all the time. It's a Christian group. It's just one of their mottos, God over money. And so I'm always wearing stuff like this. It felt fitting for what our lives are all about and the faith principles and what the Bible teaches.

1:09:52So it felt right. That's why I'm wearing it. Yeah, it fits in around here. You're right. You're right. No question about it. And to find a financial advisor who decided to pay off his mortgage, that's rare. out in its own right it is and then wears the sweatshirt saying got over money yeah that's good that's beautiful these are two good things right here so excellent job so now the books of business are clear the house is clear all these years you've been teaching this did it feel different than you thought it was going to uh yes and no because i've had so many clients that have paid it off and i've kind of like lived vicariously through that and i've listened to this show So, you know, we countless times led the class, but also when it hits like today.

1:10:29Yeah, but when it happened to you, today's our first day that we were supposed to have our mortgage payment zapped today. And so it's also fitting that we're here because it didn't get zapped out today. So it's going to sink in this month and next month. And so, yeah, it's somewhat as expected. And it's also sinking in as we speak because I'm like, wait, it's not coming out of our account today. I will say I thought that when we went to the bank and we were all excited and we had our big check and we thought they were going to maybe have confetti cannons and throw us a party. But it's pretty somber.

1:10:58The bank is not happy. I was like, wait, you would celebrate us going in debt. You got to bring your own soundtrack and confetti. That's what we did. We made it fun by ourselves, yeah. Oh, that's incredible. Well, this is the real celebration. I would leave a mess in their parking lot. That's right. You guys get it. You know this is good. This is good. The bank didn't get it. No, they're not going to get it. Wow. So what's next for you guys? You're still so young. You got your whole life ahead of you. What do you do now? Outrageous giving even more than we've been doing. Baby step seven to the fullest.

1:11:26And, you know, I mean, that's a short answer. It's that simple. And just we teach and, you know, we basically Dave Ramsey people's lives, as we kind of jokingly say, professionally. So it's going to keep serving and pouring in like we've always done. Yeah. And I just have to say to God, be all the glory. And you guys are so amazing. and ultimately you're just teaching biblical principles. So our goal as a couple is to just try to model that and encourage the people that we know to do the same and to experience that kind of freedom that you guys have. It's seeded into our lives. I only went to Financial Peace University when we were dating to impress him.

1:12:04I didn't really care. But now I'm just eternally grateful for the trajectory that it set us on. And we actually debated doing this because we didn't want it to seem, I don't know, showy or anything like that. But then we ultimately were like, this is about inspiring other people to just get rid of the chains, you know, and experience to experience freedom. And so we plan to just give as generously as possible to continue doing that, to make that part of our legacy, to instill that in our four daughters and share the wealth. Amen. Well done. So tell me you're going to do something fun. I mean, this is the start.

1:12:43This is the surprise trip. I mean something fun. What are y 'all going to do? Oh, man, we love trips and quality time with our family, so we'll do more. So we'll do a good trip. Yeah, we'll do a good trip. All joking aside, this is our moment. Yeah, sure. But we'll keep doing, you know. But we love doing trips with others and blessing them to get some investing in memories. Maybe get myself a hot pink car. That's right. That would be my fun thing. Now we're going. We got four girls. We got a lot of hot pink. That's our thing. How old are the girls? They're 9, 11, 13, and 15. Wow. They're old enough where this is a memory for them, watching mom and dad sacrifice and hustle to give them the most incredible life.

1:13:29Yes. And I just have to give him a little shout-out, too, that in those early days when this change was made, This was side gig after side gig, umpiring, Etsy jobs, anything we can do, eating peanut butter and jelly sandwiches for years in order to establish getting to that point where we could just snowball to this point now where we can actually pay off our mortgage. So I just, he just worked so hard and has run his business through your entre leadership principles and the culture has formed within that. And God's just been so good and blessed that. And I know it's just because it's been so honoring of God throughout the whole process.

1:14:06So, yeah. That's sweet. That's very good. It's a faith and tenacity and character. It's all woven in there. And it's why you guys are here. You guys are rock stars, man. You're very cool. Thank you, guys. What a great visit. Thank you to the whole entity. You built an amazing thing, each and every person in here. This is special. It's literally life changing. Changed our lives in every sense of the word. God is good. Thank you, guys. Thank you, Dave, for day one. We appreciate it. You guys are amazing. I'm so proud of you. Thank you. Mason and Katie, Denver, Colorado,$5.5 million paid off in three years.

1:14:43Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream. Three, two, one. We're debt free! Let's go!

1:14:57I'm scared of that guy. I'm thinking this might be the best financial planner I've ever seen. I might hire him out.

1:15:30Hey guys, it's George Camel, and I've got a hot tip to save you some serious cash this holiday season. Shop Aldi first. Aldi has everything you need for holiday get-togethers. I'm talking charcuterie boards, holiday sides, desserts, without the large price tags. You'll get fresh, high-quality food while keeping your budget off the naughty list, because Aldi has the lowest prices of any national grocery store. It's true. Families are saving up to$4 ,000 a year just by making Aldi their go-to, which means more money for stocking stuffers. So find a store near you at aldi.us. That's A-L-D-I dot U-S.

1:16:05Savings based on regional analysis of Aldi versus select competitors. Prices may vary by location, product availability, and the market.

1:16:34Spencer's in Idaho. Hey, Spencer, how are you? Good. Thanks, Dave, for taking my call today. Sure. What's up? Yeah, so I'm 22 years old. I'm close to my associate's degree in business management, and I've been working for an excavation company for two years. Earlier this spring, my boss offered to sell me his company for$750 ,000. It's got about$1.5 million worth of equipment, and we do right around$2 million of revenue a year. I'm calling to ask if this is a good financial decision at a young age like me, or if I'm in too much over my head.

1:17:20What is your position with the company? um so i'm right now i'm just an operator um that's what i've done for the last couple years i'm new to the industry so i've just been learning as much as i can um i have kind of become uh more of a lead like a crew leader manager over the last six months but that's where i've been did he approach you specifically with this deal uh yes so one of my co-workers um was the one that initially brought it up and then he likes the idea uh he's 74 years old and so he's looking to get out of the business and i was interested in getting in so that's kind of how the conversation started yeah okay all right well i mean the analysis is this you've never run a business and now yeah and now we're talking about running a business that has$2 million gross revenue.

1:18:19And you've never run it. You've never even been in operations. The only thing you've operated is a bulldozer. And so that's the downside, right? I mean, you don't know what you're doing. Yes, that's true. And so it's not because of your age. If you were 52 and you'd never run a business, you've never run a business. And running a business is a series of skills like any, like running a dozer is a series of skills. It's just different ones. So it's not that you can't learn it, but that's your big leap right there. And I'm a little bit not understanding why he's selling a business that has a top line of$2 million, but has book value of$1.5 million worth of equipment for only$750 ,000.

1:19:05So you could sell off half the equipment and be clear the first year, right? Yeah, that's true. That's weird. equipment is why doesn't he just sell off the equipment and make twice the money

1:19:22um i feel like a lot of it's because the equipment's really old and is it worth a million and a half or not yeah it is yeah it can't do with how old it is if you if you bought the business and turned around sold off the equipment let's just play pretend for a second okay here's how dumb this is you buy it for 750 000 a month later you sell off the equipment for a million and a half and close the business and put 700 000 in your pocket that's weird okay that's you see what i'm saying that that that doesn't ring that doesn't ring something just off about this there's something wrong why how did he get to this valuation of 750 was it just a wet finger in the air?

1:20:07Well, we only do, I mean, we're only working nine or ten months out of the year. The profit margins are pretty low. They're 7 % or 8%, and he is financing it through himself to me, and so he feels like to be able to pay the bills and make that payment, that's where it needs to be to make it work. Okay. Um, yeah, this is, this, well, okay. Um, so what kind of, you're making a seven or 8 % margin. So you're making like$150 ,000 a year off of 2 million. Correct. Correct. Profit. Profit. Yes. Yes. Net taxable income. Yes. Okay. Based on that, it's not worth 750. Okay. It's worth$400,$300 to$400. But the other problem is there's another way to value a business, and that's book value, which is if you close it and sell off all the assets, what would you get?

1:21:17And in this case, you'd get a million and a half.

1:21:24So if you didn't have the high book value, then this thing would be worth nowhere near what he's asking based on its profitability. So he's correct in that. He's trying to set you up to where you can at least stay open and pay him the$750. But how many pieces of equipment? Oh, he's got six excavators, four loaders, greater, a bunch of attachments for it. then he's got semis he's got a transportation side with trailers he's got a lot of a lot of equipment but there is no land this 1.5 million is just an equipment I got that okay so I'm just trying gosh if I were advising him I would advise him to close the business and sell the stuff he'll make twice as much okay if I'm advising you I don't um well number one I got a real concern that you've never operated a business and that you know you might not make any money because you don't know the operations side of getting the clients getting the contract signed running the payables run the payroll that you know doing the marketing there's there's a lot of things to operating a business and I would love for you to have been mentored as his vice president of operations for two years before you call me and ask this and then it would have been an easier answer you see what i'm saying yeah yeah he does want to mentor me for a couple of years but he's wanting out pretty soon yeah it's kind of like tossing the kids tossing a 13 year old uh or or tossing me i've never operated a bulldozer you toss me the keys the bulldozer and go hey have fun i got a feeling i'm gonna knock the neighbor's house down.

1:23:23Okay. So, because I don't know what the flip I'm doing with no instruction, but if he's going to come alongside you and instruct you for two years, then that helps a bunch. And then you said he's doing the financing to you with some seller financing deal. So how would that work out? So he wants to finance it over 10 years and I'll basically pay him$75 ,000 a year, and he wants it in quarterly payments.

1:23:52But you could sell off two or three pieces of equipment and pay him off almost immediately. Yeah, that's correct.

1:24:04If that was the plan, and you got two years of mentoring on operations, and your plan is not to pay him off over 10 years, it's to pay him off over 10 months because you're going to liquidate enough equipment to pay him off, then I would be okay. You're going to have a debt-free business with$750 ,000 worth of equipment that you know how to operate, and you overpaid for it, but you didn't overpay for it because you got assets with it, so it's a weird calculation. You following all this gyration I'm doing? Yeah, I follow you. Okay, and hang on, I'm going to have Christian hook you up with one of our Entree Leadership coaches and give you a little bit more assistance than just a podcast radio show answer.

1:24:51And let one of our – we've got – we coach 10 ,000 small businesses. So one of those coaches could actually help you walk through some of this. But I think if you know how to operate it and it's debt-free, I don't care if you're 22. You're sharp talking to you. I think you can do that. It gives you wiggle room to figure it out and reduce the risk. But if you've had somebody mentor you for two years on operations, and you turn around and sell off enough of the equipment to pay him off in the first year, and you operate a smaller business but a higher margin business because there's no debt on it, then I think you've got a good foothold to go make some serious money.

1:25:28And the excavation business, there's really good – these margins are too low. Everybody I know in that business makes money. It's a moneymaker if it's operated right. And I think he's just kind of let things go because he's tired. So I got a feeling you can get your margins up 10%, 15 % and start making some serious bank on this. You could make more money with less equipment and no debt later on. That's where it could be your future. Interesting. Interesting call. What a riddle that was. Yeah, really.

1:26:28Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. George Campbell, Ramsey personality, number one bestselling author, is my co-host today. The phone number here is 888-825-5225. Virginia is in Austin, Texas. Hi, Virginia. How are you? I'm good. Hi, Dave. Hi, George. How are you guys doing? Better than we deserve. What's up? Awesome. Thank you so much for having me on. So my husband and I are currently working through the baby steps. We are on step two. We have about$118 ,249 in debt that we have to work through. We had a lot of stupid tax in our 20s.

1:27:08Basically, we grew up, me specifically, I grew up very poor without anything. My birth mother relied on a lot of government agency assistance, and we barely had food to make it through. So right now, while we're working through the baby steps, I'm having a really hard time letting go of the what if moments. So whenever we do have the margin during that month to pay off a good chunk of debt, it's just getting really hard for me to not put it towards the debt and just keep it in savings. So my question is, like, how do I work through that, like, fight or flight mode that I've been in my entire life without, like, I just want to build generational wealth for our two kids.

1:27:50You're amazing. I really appreciate you. You're amazing. That's great. Oh, thank you. Your self-awareness and the forming of your question is just excellent. Just very well done. Oh, thank you. Very well done. So what do you do for a living? So I actually work from home. I'm a retail support operations specialist, and my husband is a diesel mechanic. What's your household income? So household, we make after tax about$112 ,710 each year. Okay. So he's doing really well as a diesel mechanic then, and he should be. That's a great field. Yes. Okay. And your degree is in what? We actually both dropped out of college.

1:28:36We both have associates. He has an associate business, and I have an associate of art. So we're actually just having associates. Okay. All right. So I'm going to send you a copy of Rachel's book, Know Yourself, Know Your Money. And she talks a lot about in that book, the things you were talking about here, which is like family of origin and how that affects, you know, how you handle money in your marriage and how you – the feelings you have about money that you so clearly articulated and all of those things. And I have a friend that never really got healed from what you're talking about. And he was worth several hundred million dollars.

1:29:23And he worked, you know, like 12 hours a day. But he said, I grew up dirt poor. And for those of you that don't know what that means, that means literally the floor of the house was dirt. That's what dirt poor means in East Tennessee, okay, or in the hills of Appalachia. and so he grew up in a dirt floor house they called that dirt poor i've heard it my whole life and so um but he never got over his childhood the trauma that his childhood represented on them on the subject of money and so he just he could never make enough he could never save enough because he never got healed from that absolutely and that's that's that's the beauty of your question is you're the opposite end of that.

1:30:06You're seeking healing. And so Dr. John Deloney gave us a great saying. I first heard him cover it back during COVID, but he's done a lot of trauma work. And for purposes of this discussion, we're going to declare your childhood traumatic. That's, yeah, that's very fair. At a minimum, it was dramatic, but we might call it traumatic. And And he said when you're in the middle of trauma, it has a signature in your body. And so you physically feel like you did when you were a child when you write these checks because it brings back all those fears and your body tenses up in exactly the same places it did when you were 12.

1:30:54Yes, 100%. And that's how trauma works. He's explained that to me. I didn't know that, but he's got a Ph.D. in this stuff. So he's taught a lot of us around here, stuff like this. So he says when you're dealing with this and your body starts to remember and act like you're still broke, like you're 12 years old and you don't have enough to eat, your body starts remembering that, but that's not the facts. He says the way to work through that is facts are your friends. And you stop for a second and go, okay, what are the facts? The facts are I'm not my mom. Yeah. The facts are our kids are not in the same situation my kids are.

1:31:36The facts are we make over$100 ,000 a year, and my husband has one of the most employable careers on the planet right now. The chances of him going without work is really close to zero. That's good to know. He actually just got promoted to diesel tech, so I'm very excited about that for him. I'm telling you, he's never going to be without work as long as he physically can do the work. That's good. Because there's a shortage. And it's the trades, and the trades are booming right now. He's in a really sweet spot. That's a fact. So the fact is you're so far away mathematically from your childhood that these feelings then are illogical.

1:32:16And you can begin to tell yourself that. Yes, yeah. And I do. I'm actually kind of the nerd of our marriage. And I have a paper. I do it old school. I have every dollar, but just the free version. So I do an old school, like, monthly budget, and I do it every two weeks just to see kind of where we're landing to just show me, hey, you do make over$100 ,000 a year. You're insane. Stop acting like that. It's not insane. It's not insane. It's the result of bad things happening. If something bad happens, your body remembers that. Yeah. And you literally physiologically relive that fear. You know, your shoulders tighten up.

1:32:58You know, your shoulders raise up. You know, like you said, you're in fight or flight mode. And your lizard brain is kicking in instead of your high thinking, high functioning brain. Because that's what happens when danger comes. And so we all face this. We all face this. And so for different reasons, different things activate that. whether it's childhood or something else. And so, you know, I think you just practice stopping when you start having that feeling and tell your body that it's wrong. Okay. Yeah, I can do that. Deep breaths. I actually told myself that it's wrong. Yeah, deep breaths.

1:33:37You're wrong. We are not there. That's where we were when I was 12, but I'm not 12. I'm not my mom, and we're not in that situation. And no blame or shame. It's just where we are. The fact is you're not in any danger. And it just takes a little while for your body and for you to retrain your brain to go to observe where you are. Does that make sense? It does. It absolutely does. And I agree with you 100%. I mean, to your point, the math is there. It's plain on paper that we're not drowning. We just need to work a little bit hard to get out of the hole that we're in. Yeah, you didn't say the math wasn't there.

1:34:20You just said, I can't get the emotions to stop. Right. That's what you said. How much do you have in savings? Right now, I mean, we have our baby step one, so we have$1 ,000, and then we're slowly chunking away. I actually just paid off one of our credit cards. I mean, it was only$500, but I actually just pulled the trigger and paid it off. Way to go. Okay, we're going to upgrade your every dollar to the advanced version. We're going to pay for it for you. I think you're amazing. I'm so proud of you guys. Keep it up. You know your numbers, and that tells me you're going to get out of this. You're going to be okay.

1:35:15Do you want to keep more money in your pocket and not Uncle Sam's? Then listen up. There are tax deductions and credits you could maximize before the end of the year by connecting with an experienced tax professional like a Ramsey Trusted Tax Pro. They know the tax code inside and out, so you don't have to. And they can help you file when tax season rolls around. Get a Trusted Tax Pro by going to RamseySolutions.com slash tax pro. RamseySolutions.com slash tax pro.

1:36:02You know, our last caller talking about the feelings and the emotions around money reminded me of Jade Warshaw's new book, What No One Tells You About Money. The real key to getting unstuck from someone who's been there. This is the true thing here where the emotions, Jade gets into the emotions in this book like no one else. It's really good because she dealt with so much emotion fighting through her and Sam paying off$465 ,000 of debt. So this is a great new book by Jade Warshaw, one of our Ramsey Solutions publishing endeavors. and you can pre-order it right now for$24.99. Get over$100 in free bonus items, enhanced audio book, early access to the e-book, instant access to the exclusive video, your financial checkup with Jade Warshaw.

1:36:53And here's what's cool. They're going to do exclusive three-week online book club for those that pre-order that includes a live Q &A with Jade for three weeks. That's cool. That's going to be neat. And I promise you, this lady can walk you right straight through whatever you're on. moving you right to where you want to go. And that's the thing. This will get you unstuck if you're on that journey. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. It's pretty cool. The book is What No One Tells You About Money. So be sure and get it preordered right now at RamseySolutions.com. Paige is with us in Chicago. Hi, Paige.

1:37:30How are you? Hi, I'm good. How are you guys? Better than we deserve. What's up? um so i just had a question um about saving for my son i am 24 my son's 18 months um i'm a stay-at-home mom and my husband and i i find it well he also does too we're really looking into saving for our son for big things uh school down payment on a home when he gets older um just big things that will help him later in life get a step ahead. And I was just looking for advice on maybe like how, maybe like investment accounts or saving accounts, compoundable accounts, like things like that. Right now we're just putting$80 away a month for him.

1:38:21Into what? It's just into a municipal fund. It's not anything crazy or special. Okay. Well, there's not anything crazy or special. And it sounds like you're very excited about having a new baby, and that's awesome. And you're a good mommy and good daddy. You want your kid to do better than you've done. That's awesome. Proud of you for all of that. I personally would tell you not to use special accounts that are earmarked just for him. I simply would build wealth. You and your husband build some wealth. And then as he gets older, you can reach over and pay for college. Or as he gets older, you can reach over and buy a house and give it to him.

1:39:03And if you want to get those two things would cause him to leapfrog ahead, a paid for education in a free house. You know, if he gets some knowledge with that and some wisdom to go with that, he could go be a millionaire in 20 seconds if he did, if he had those two things alone. But you could do that just out of your personal mutual fund account. You don't have to have a special earmarked for him. He could be your motivation for building that. And that's a wonderful motivation, changing your family tree, right? Oh, yeah, for sure. So the key is it's in your name you have control because here's the issue.

1:39:37If he turns 18 and there's$200 ,000 in there, you have to hope he wants to buy a house and do something wise with it. But you remember when we were 18, our brain was not thinking quite logically. And so that's the danger of just handing over six figures to an 18-year-old. So 529 plan is great for college savings. And then outside of that, if you want to open just a mutual fund account, a brokerage account like Dave mentioned, you can invest for him there in your name. Yeah, I would just have you be building wealth. Yes, I would be saving for college on 529 when you get to that baby step five, wherever you are in the baby steps.

1:40:10But, you know, so let me give you an example, okay? We saved up for our kids' college, our three kids that are now not kids, they're now grown humans, okay? And in those days, there wasn't a 529. So we just saved what was called an UTMA, Uniform Transfer to Minors Act, which simply means we opened an account in their name in good mutual funds, and we were the custodian. It was their money, okay? And it grew at their tax rate. And you can do that. You can do that or you can do a 529, either one. 529 grows tax-free, which is the benefit of that. And here's what happened, though. When they got to college, we had started doing so well that I just wrote the checks out of the checking account and paid for college.

1:41:03Cash flow it. I just cash flowed it. So that ended up with each kid having a nice big nest egg in the mutual funds. And when they graduated from college, I signed that over to them. And that gave them a pretty good chunk, like the amount of college, right, to get started with. That was pretty sweet. And so stuff like that is easy to do. but there's no i i would not bifurcate something for an 18 month old set it aside in his name create some double backflip trust crap or something and then hope that all works out instead i think you raise the kid and you raise a big pile of money and you'll be able to combine the two if they both work that's the big thing if both turn out the big pile of money turns out the kid turns out then we can combine them that's called winning as a parent yeah but i mean you don't want to give a 18 year old heroin addict,$200 ,000, you'll kill them because they'll go overdose in a heartbeat.

1:42:01And so that that's the problem. And I'm not suggesting that your little guy's going to end up that at all. But I have in 35 years of doing this, heard some really sad stories. So I just keep it in your name, build a big old pile of wealth, get yourself out of debt, you know, be investing in your 401ks and have some mutual fund investing to the side. and then you look over and there's some money and he gets married and you want to buy him a house and pay cash for it, tell him never get into debt. And he's a great young man. He's a citizen. He graduated from college. He's making a good money. He's standing on his own two feet.

1:42:32He's not living in his mommy's basement, sucking his thumb at 24 years old. And this is a great kid. Yeah, write a check, buy him a house. I would definitely do that. Definitely. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Katie is in Des Moines. Hi, Katie. How are you? Hi, Dave. Thanks for taking my call. Sure. What's up? So just a little bit of background for you. I am just about to turn 40 here at the end of the month. And my husband and I have been married for six years. We bought a home five years ago and we were in pretty good shape. We both worked full time. And then I got sick and had to drastically reduce my income because of that.

1:43:19And we went through Financial Peace University right before that happened. So we were on baby step number one still. And we've gotten ourselves into quite a bit of credit card debt at this point. And because of all the health challenges and medical and just so many things. You don't have health insurance to cover most of that? Oh, we do, yeah. So I've been type 1 diabetic since I was 10, so I've been dealing with that for 30 years. So that just adds extra finances on top of I'm dealing with some type of autoimmune issue that we haven't been able to figure out. I've been going to lots of doctors.

1:44:00Some doctors, like holistic, functional, not covered by insurance. So how much student, I mean, I'm sorry, how much credit card debt do you have? $18 ,000 right now, and I have four different credit cards. Okay. And have you found a diagnosis? I think we're on the brink of it. I'm going to see a rheumatologist here next week. I just turned out to have some type of autoimmune thyroid issue going on. So you've got no energy? Yeah. Yeah, okay. I'm sorry. I can barely work. You can barely what? I can barely work. I understand. I'm so sorry. And you said you're 40? Yeah. Okay. Yes, I will be. And what's your husband's income?

1:44:52My husband's gross income or net. Gross. Gross income is$60 ,000. Okay. And how much is your house payment? House payment is$1 ,241. Okay. Listen, I think you guys have had the crud beat out of you with this medical thing. and the emotions that go with that, I think you've done amazingly well considering everything that's coming at you. I think you really, really have done a good job. So keep doing a good job and get the other side of this, and then you can figure out what you're doing. The house is not causing you a problem, and$18 ,000 is not causing you a problem. You can clean that up as soon as you get your health returned.

1:45:49Hey guys, it's here, our Cyber Monday sale. And you can pick up our best-selling books like Baby Steps Millionaires for only$12. Or pick up a set of our Questions for Humans cards. That way at your next gathering, you can put down the screens and have amazing conversations instead. And they're just$12. Plus some of our best-selling digital products like our audio books are as low as$6.99. Seriously, guys, gifts like these change people's lives. And that's always a good deal. Visit RamseySolutions.com slash store.

1:46:3314 months ago, my wife Sharon and I went on a 13-day journey through the country of Turkey, visiting each of the churches of Revelation with an incredible Bible teacher who has become a close friend, Brad Gray. Brad is joining us because Brad's working on a project that he got to tell me about while we were in Turkey. And we've been kind of teamed up a little bit. I've been part of his background vocals while he's been working on this thing. And we've had a couple of events and things raising some money for this because this project is absolutely stunning and incredible, and I want to be able to tell you about it, so I brought Brad on.

1:47:12He has a full-length feature film called The Lord's Prayer, one hour and 22 minutes. Sharon and I watched it the other night. It is the visuals and the photography is world-class. It will blow your mind, and he spends that hour and 22 minutes unpacking The Lord's Prayer. You've got to watch it. We're going to provide it for you. He's going to provide it for you for free through Angel. It's with Angel Studios. So angel.com slash Ramsey. You can watch it for free. Welcome, my friend. Hey, it's great to be here. Thank you. Good to have you. So I know you're working on this, and I know the answer because I've heard you tell this, but I want to throw you the underhand pitch.

1:47:53You've been working on the whole sacred thread concept all through Scripture and teaching Scripture in a way that translates to the big screen or translates to your television screen to where we can learn it at a different rate and a different way. Because when you see the locations, it shifts the learning. But you started with the Lord's Prayer. Now you've got an entire book. The book is out, Bringing Heaven Here, which is a book on the Lord's Prayer and 122 minutes on the Lord's Prayer, which we all just recite like, and we're done. Yeah. But when you unpack it the way you do, it's pretty incredible.

1:48:28Yeah. I appreciate it. So what inspires you to write an entire book and do this feature film on the Lord's Prayer? Yeah, well, it actually began seven years ago without any thought of a book or a film or a television series. But I was actually just sitting down and reading the Sermon on the Mount. And when Jesus gets to the Lord's Prayer, he prefaces it with, and this then is how you should pray. And I just had a moment where I was like, ah, like, I think he actually meant it. And which was almost embarrassing for me. I've been leading these study trips since 2010. I was a pastor for more than a decade.

1:49:03I've been in church world my entire life, and yet the Lord's Prayer wasn't something that was part of my daily regimen. And I just realized at that moment that I needed to do a very deep dive for my own soul. And as a result of going through it and seeing what was there, it was much deeper, much wider, more compelling than I ever knew. And because it started to transform my life, my faith, my prayers, my thoughts, and just how I went about life every day, when we started to work on this idea to create the highest quality documentary series that's ever been done on the Bible, it was like, then let's start with the Lord's Prayer.

1:49:41Everything is contained in that. Yeah, it's all there. Yeah. But then we can go deeper and wider even from that. But let this be the jumping off point. And as I said, what gave you guys the idea to go to the location? Because you're standing next to the pyramids. You're standing next to the Nile. You're standing in all these different locations where some of these singular words in the prayer were originated. Like Father is the opening thing. Right. Our Father. And then you do 10 minutes on Father. Yep. And, you know, what made you come up with the idea to do that? So my first study trip to the Middle East happened in 2006, and it completely revolutionized my faith because you hear all these stories growing up, and then you actually go to the locations and everything fits.

1:50:30And you're just like, oh, this thing is real. And just being there and walking it changes the way that you engage and experience the story. And so when we wanted to put this documentary series together, most people would think, oh, Jesus is giving the Lord's Prayer in Israel. You're going to be in Israel. We're actually in six different countries for this opening film and season because all of these pieces are connecting around the Roman Empire. They're connecting back to Egypt for the Exodus story for Jesus. And so we just knew that 99.9 % of people, even just professing Christians, will never set foot in the Holy Lands.

1:51:07and we wanted to bring that not just to people in America, but all over the world to be able to see these locations and allow them to make some additional connections to connecting the dots of scripture. That's incredible. Well, you call this prayer a framework for transformation, and I'm reminded by our mission here at Ramsey. We're in the transformation business for your money, your work, your life, your relationships. In what way is this relevant today to help transform people's lives? Why should people care about the Lord's Prayer in 2026? Yeah. Well, the greatest thing about the Lord's Prayer that was kind of really revealed to me was this is actually the most distilled place in Scripture for helping people to understand who God is, why Jesus came, and what's our purpose here on earth.

1:51:52You know, and that's one of the things that you guys do such a great job with is helping people to be very clear and focused on what's important and doing the right things in order to live life the best way that you can. And the Lord's Prayer is a blueprint for living. It wasn't just a prayer Jesus taught people to pray. It was the very prayer that he was living out in his own life. And I've come to learn that over the last seven years in particular of praying this prayer every day. It's the singular most important thing I do every day to recalibrate to what is the most important aspects of life and how do we live life well as a result of it.

1:52:32Wow. Was it N.T. Wright that you were interviewing that said he prayed it every morning? Yes. He's in the documentary. Yeah, he's in the documentary. He said he starts his prayer or ends his prayer time. Ends his prayer, yeah. Every time with the Lord's Prayer because it's a framework. Because it's a framework. Because it resets. It's a settling point. Yeah, exactly. Very cool. Very cool. Again, you got to go watch this. It's completely free, boys and girls. Go to angel.com slash Ramsey. Angel has made it free for you guys. And you can watch it there and stream it and just pop it up on your screen.

1:53:05Sharon and I watched it the other night. The premiere was done here at the Ramsey Event Center a few weeks ago. I was out of town, missed that, but I heard it went real well. It was awesome. And a lot of people were – I was getting texts from all my friends that were friends of yours that were in the audience watching it. going, hey, Brad, you got the thing out, it's going. So in the last couple minutes that we've got, talk about daily bread. Give us this day our daily bread. Yeah. I love this part of the prayer because actually you mentioned N.T. Wright. He wrote a book a number of years ago where he said the problem with asking for daily bread is that we get there too soon.

1:53:41And that so oftentimes when we open up prayer, we have kind of a laundry list of all the things that we want to ask for. we need. And what's great about daily bread is it actually comes much further down in the prayer where the rest of it kind of sets the frame for what are we called to do? How are we supposed to partner with God in the world? And daily bread really becomes about asking God for what is essential for the task at hand. Like when we're called to do something, what's essential? And the thing that's so great about the daily bread piece is that it also reminds us that the whole prayer is in the plural, give us this day our daily bread.

1:54:21And when you dig into just what daily bread meant and what Jesus was inviting his community into, it's not just asking God for the things that you need. It's also supposed to cause you to pause and ask the question, how am I being generous so that when other people are praying, give us this day our daily bread, can I play a part in being the fulfillment of their request. So it's actually part of the prayer that really inspires a sense of generosity. And too often, we get so caught up in asking for things or pursuing things that don't actually matter. I mean, the number of calls you guys get in, people are making bad decisions because they're pursuing the wrong things, and they're pursuing the wrong things in the wrong way.

1:55:09This is a part of the prayer where we're going, okay, God, what is essential? What do I really need? And how can I be generous with what you've given to me so that when somebody else is praying, give us this day our daily bread, I might actually be that answer. Yeah. Good reminder. Brad Gray is the president and CEO of Walking the Text, where he literally walks you through the text in different locations. That's what Sharon and I were doing with Revelation Churches in Turkey with a group there and with him. It was absolutely incredible time. The new film, It's a full-length, one-hour and 22-minute feature film.

1:55:43You get to watch it free. Angel.com slash Ramsey. It's called The Lord's Prayer. Recommended heavily. And, of course, Bringing Heaven Here is the companion piece book. You can get it anywhere great books are sold. I assume Amazon. Yes. Yes, Amazon for sure. Okay. Be sure and check it out. So, Bringing Heaven Here and The Lord's Prayer. My friend, I'm proud of you. This is really good work. Thanks for stopping in. Yeah, thanks for having me. Appreciate it. Brad Gray, ladies and gentlemen.

1:56:12Thank you.

1:56:28It's one of the best times of the year, but it's also the time of year when people let their money get totally out of control. Everywhere you look, it's just buy, buy, buy. So you start swiping the credit card, and suddenly it's January, and you've got a mess on your hands. Don't let that happen. Tell your money where to go instead of wondering where it went. With our budgeting app, EveryDollar. EveryDollar not only helps you stay on budget and in control of your spending this holiday season, it also helps you find extra margin in your budget, thousands of dollars of it. And every day we'll coach you to build better money habits and attack your goals faster than ever.

1:57:09So while most people will be starting in January with a taste of regret in their mouth, you'll already be winning. Start every dollar for free by downloading the app today.

1:57:34Our scripture of the day, Psalm 1282, you will eat the fruit of your labor. Blessings and prosperity will be yours. Steve Jobs said, the only way to do great work is to love what you do. If you haven't found it yet, keep looking. Don't settle. One of our favorite things here is finding out that people share their stories of how they're winning. We just heard this from Claire and Winston. This is me and my husband's third month budgeting with the EveryDollar app, and I'm amazed at how much money we found. We went from feeling like we were living paycheck to paycheck to finding$3 ,500 extra margin each month to put towards our debt.

1:58:13We had four credit cards and have been able to pay them all off in less than three months, never going back. Boy, that's cool, guys. That's amazing. I'm proud of you. Hey, guys, you can do this too. You can take control of your money and change your family tree and live like no one else. Go online and download the EveryDollar budgeting app for free. It's a full plan. Budgeting is just in the background. We're going to walk you through the Ramsey plan and show you exactly how to do this stuff. Go get EveryDollar and get it right now. Amy's in Grand Rapids. Hi, Amy. How are you? Hi. Thanks so much, Dave and George, for taking my call.

1:58:52Sure. I'm calling because my husband and I would like you guys to help settle the difference of opinion we have on how to invest our 15%. So one of us would like to invest that in, you know, ETS mutual funds in our Roth IRAs, Roth 401k. The other would like to invest in a unique real estate situation we have on our paid for property on Lake Michigan. A paid for, is it a rental property? No, it's actually where we live. So we have, our home is paid for. Fixing up your home is not investing. It's fixing up your home. Well, we have like a second home, a cabin, one of those like A-frame seer kit things.

1:59:37And we were hoping to renovate that and then bring it up and rent it out. Oh, okay. So it's not in rental condition now. Right. What will it take to fix it? Well, it's also on the edge of the bluff. So we'd have to move it back, which would be about$30 ,000. And then to bring it up to rental grade would be about another$70 ,000. So we're looking at like$100 ,000 in all. How much do you guys have saved right now?

2:00:10Not really much. So we actually had a repair on our house set us back to baby step three. So we're rebuilding that right now. And we're trying to figure out when we hit play which way to go on this. because we've had some property managers that have been like, you can get$1 ,500 to$2 ,000 a week because it's really unique. As like an Airbnb? Yeah, exactly. Well, I don't see this in the category of Baby Step 4. Baby Step 4 is invest 15 % in retirement, and this is not retirement. This is real estate investment. Just separate it, just do 15 % retirement, and above that, save up this chunk and cash flow of the renovation.

2:00:49What's your household income? Okay. About$225 ,000. Okay. All right. Okay. You said Lake Michigan, didn't you? Yes. Okay. So you don't have a 12-month season. Right. That is true. Okay. So$1 ,500 is for just a short period of time. although we do have a lot of folks that come in recreational for like fishing and that sort of thing not 1500 a week no but you're right you're right it would be less than you're looking for the people who want to make an instagram post out of this not your your yeah but that's just that you you got a three-month season here you don't have a you don't have a 12-month season so don't um it sounds like you're cherry picking the numbers to make this sound more appealing that is.

2:01:44I'm not sure it's a great investment, period, because a hundred grand in with the rental, you're going to get back out. And running an Airbnb is running a hotel. It's a pain in the butt. It's a lot of work. You're changing dirty sheets and hauling off garbage. Someone is. Yeah, we were thinking we would get property managed to do that, but we haven't done that. But then your$1 ,500 a month starts to evaporate. And your Airbnb fees? Well, sorry, per week. Yeah, I'm sorry,$1 ,500 a week. But that's only for a short period of time. But so I think you need to run a realistic pro forma on this instead of throwing the$1 ,500 a week around and acting like that's a 12-month roll.

2:02:26It's not. And when you do that, I don't know if you're going to see a great return on$100K. So even if we didn't put it in baby step four and we said, okay, baby step six or seven, you save up and fix this up as an investment property later on, you drop$100K in it, are you going to get your money back out in cash flow? I don't know if you're, you might, you might, it might work out for you. But the thing I know about real estate is, and I own a bunch of it is, net is different than gross. You have gross rents, and everybody walks around talking about their gross rents, but you have property taxes, you have insurance, you have You have expenses.

2:03:07You have maintenance. You have vacancy. You have legal trouble. You have everything else that comes out of that, and then you have net. And so, you know, people act like that, especially inexperienced real estate investors, act like that they're, you know, it's$1 ,500. And it's not. It's not because somebody's got to take out the garbage and clean the sheets. And somebody's got to deal with the stuff. And the heat and air is going to go out. And then some bozo throws a beer bottle through the window. and welcome to Airbnb. And so it's a thing, man. So I know it's not a baby step forward. Joe's right.

2:03:45George is right. I don't know who Joe is, but George is right. My bizarro arch nemesis. And so, yeah, the now I would be putting baby step forward, 15 percent into retirement and good growth stock mutual funds. That's what I'd be doing there. This investment would be later on or with a different set of money than that. It is not investing for retirement. No, I would not do that. And I'm not saying don't do it. I'm just saying it doesn't qualify for that the way we teach. And I wouldn't do it until you've got some extra money later. Right now, you're just above broke. You're just now getting it past baby step three.

2:04:22And now you're starting to move into investing. And now you're dropping$100 ,000 into a real estate deal. No, no, not right now. Not right now. Hope that helps. Hope I solved the argument. I think I came down on her side. I think the husband's not happy, but that's okay. We'll live with it. You'll live to tell the tale. Yeah. Ben is in Phoenix. Hey, Ben, how are you? I'm great. How are you guys doing? Better than we deserve. What's up? So I recently was going through my house. I knew I had this, but I rediscovered some gold coins that my dad has been buying for me for Christmas since I was a kid.

2:04:57and I did the math and it's about$22 ,000 worth of gold that I have. Yeah. So recently my fiance was laid off in August. So, you know, we lost a chunk of our income, but we're still living within our means. We're in pretty good shape, all things considered still. We do have our$1 ,000 emergency fund for baby step one. and the only debt that both of us have is the house that I bought when I was 24 and our cars. Okay, what do you owe on your car? I owe about$20 ,000 left and she's at about$15 ,000. Well, you're not married. You're not paying off somebody's car you're not married to. Correct, yes.

2:05:40So there's not a Wii. There's not a Wii. You have a roommate. Okay. You have$22 ,000 worth of gold and you need to put it on your stuff until you're married. When's the marriage? In October. And the wedding is going to be covered from both of our parents' savings for it, fortunately. What did you say you owed on your car? About$20 ,000. Oh, perfect. Sell the gold and pay off your car. Okay. I've been wondering. My dad is a little bit of a panicker, and he says, never sell it. And I've always been wondering, well, then, what's it for? Well, I never have a car payment either. And never go get another car payment after this.

2:06:16Yeah. It's your last time ever. Yeah. But here's a good way to think about it. If I gave you$22 ,000 right now, you wouldn't go buy gold with it, would you? When you put it like that, I didn't mean to call in. That's the simplest way I can think about it. And I go, let's sell the gold and turn it into money. And now what's the best use of this money is getting rid of our consumer debt. That's going to really free you up. Boom, just like that. And you guys quit combining finances until October. You're not married. It's very dangerous. Stop it. Stop it, stop it, stop it. That puts us hour of the Ramsey Show in the books.

2:06:51We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

2:07:18game game