Money Magnifies What You Already Are

22:29Dave Ramsey:It's a free every dollar training. RamseySolutions.com slash webinar. Dan's in Seattle. Hi, Dan. How are you? I'm doing good, Dave. How are you doing? Better than I deserve. What's up? So my question for you today is I'm on baby step two, and I have about$80 ,000 in debt. Now, most of my debt is through one bank, and they're offering me settlements at about 35 cents on the dollar. But I also owe$32 ,000 to the Department of Treasury, and they just sent me an intent to initiate wage garnishment. The IRS? No, it's through the Department of Treasury. For what? So I was in the military. I was in the Navy for about five years, and I got discharged early for failing a drug test.

23:26And so because of that, they're asking for my re-enlistment bonus that I had signed a contract for back.

23:35Dave Ramsey:Okay, so you got a re-enlistment bonus, and how many months later did you fail the drug test? It was two years later. Two years later. Okay, and the re-enlistment was for how long? It was a six-year contract. Correct. Okay, so you were one-third of the way through. So what was your bonus when you re-enlisted? It was the money they're asking for back. It was around$32 ,000. So they don't prorate it at all. They want the whole thing. Huh. They want the amount that they had already paid out to me. That wasn't the full amount, but that was what I had received up until the point that I got. Oh, they were paying it out to you over the six-year period.

24:20Dave Ramsey:Correct. So it is the pro rata amount. Okay. So overall, had you been there, you would have gotten$90 ,000-something had you been there the whole time? Roughly, yeah. A little less than that, I think. Yeah. Okay. All right. Hmm. All right. Have you tried to negotiate a payment plan with them? Because I'm sure they expect someone that failed a drug test to have$32 ,000 laying around. I have not. So my plan was – because I know you normally say work smallest to largest. Yeah, but not when you're dealing with the U.S. freaking government. With the IRS or the U.S. Department of Treasury, they have the ability to come take stuff from you that other people don't.

25:04Dave Ramsey:So, yeah, what I would do is get on the phone with them and figure out if you can work a payment plan with them. And that will use up some of the money you're using to get out of debt on the other side, but it also keeps them from coming and taking your wages, which they can do in a heartbeat. They don't even have to go to court. They just got to send a notice. It's like the IRS. They're unbelievably powerful. Right. So, yeah, you need to get that thing settled to create a sustainable situation so you can work your way through the rest of it. Okay. So we need to get a payment plan with them. They'll work a payment plan with you because I don't think they think they're going to get their money.

25:43Right.

25:43Dave Ramsey:I mean, if they let 100 people go in this exact same situation due to failing a drug test, 100 of them don't have the money. Okay? None of you guys are sitting around on$32 ,000 when this happens to you, right? I mean, you're other friends in the military that that happened to, right? Yes, sir. It's not like you're sitting around, you know, on piles of money. You know, it just doesn't work that way. So, yeah, I'd work a payment plan with them and then with what I've got left. So I would imagine they'll settle. What are you making now? What do you make? $85 ,000 a year before tax. Good. What do you do now?

26:25I am a data center engineer.

26:28Dave Ramsey:Great. Excellent. And so keep learning and keep growing and keep that income increasing. And let's get it all cleared off as fast as possible. What I would do is call them and say this. hey I got let go from the military for a drug test I have no money you really can't get anything but I would love to start a payment plan to get this paid back what's the least you would put me on and put it on the smallest payment possible for now that gives you more room to work on the other stuff and when the other stuff's gone then go back and pay them off completely early So, you know, I don't want you to offer them$1 ,000 and they would have taken$500 a month for right now.

27:11Right.

27:12Dave Ramsey:I want them to give you a number. And no matter what they say, practice this with me, Dan. I want you to gasp. No matter what they say, act like you about passed out. And go, you're kidding. Oh, my. Oh, no. Oh, my gosh. Oh, can you do any better? And let them negotiate with themselves for a minute, okay? You understand the technique? I do. It works. Especially when you're dealing with a government employee on the other end. Hey, Dan. Dan. You still there, man? Listen to me. This will not go away. Right. All right. And I know the temptation will be like somebody of yours is going to have a cool Jeep that he's jacked up.

28:04He's going to give it to you at a quote unquote great deal. And someone's going to ask you to get in on Bitcoin or whatever the thing's coming. None of this is going to go away. So the faster you figure out how to get this cleared up, I would go scorched earth on my living arrangements until I got the government out of my life. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Okay.

28:23Dave Ramsey:They are unwavering. It's not going to go away. They're the hardest of all creditors to deal with. Right. Because they're their own boss. They answer to nobody. Yeah. They don't have to check with a judge. It's crazy. Right. It's like student loans. They just issue the garnishment. It's like the IRS. They just issue the garnishment. They don't have to go through due process. It's completely unconstitutional, but it doesn't matter. They do it anyway. So, you know, due process is in the Constitution, not when it comes to government debt. Nope. They just come take it. and then they go, oh, you mean we weren't supposed to do that?

28:59Dave Ramsey:We'll get it back then. Doesn't work. No, it's a pain in the butt. I want to scare you because I want to scare you in knocking this out as fast as you possibly can, but in the meantime, put it on the smallest possible payment so you've got a sustainable situation, and then work like a crazy man, live scorched earth, stay off the dadgum drugs, and attack this stuff, man, and get it out of your life. Get rid of it so it doesn't come back. and um yeah for sure you've got a great career in front of you don't screw it up bust bust bust bust get those certifications data analyst man in an ai world you are king you're going to be king of the heap because you're going to be the one telling ai what to do if you learn how to do your craft believe me i got them in this building and i pay them well so you and they're they're the future so they are the future the children are our future yeah the yeah that's it but that's said ai but yeah it they do it man you can do it don't john's right though don't let don't let up until they're out of your life because this is not going away and if you look up five years from now and you've still got this hanging around because you haven't dealt with it you hope john's voice is ringing in your ear it's not going away people keep um this is a little bit different situation but man i don't know what it's going to take for folks to stop getting into business arrangements with the government.

30:20It just doesn't end well because they answer to nobody. They're just going to come take your check. If you get into the student loan world, you are making a deal with the government. If you don't pay your taxes. If you don't pay your taxes, you're making a deal with the government. It's frustrating. It is what it is, but man, they win 100 % of the time. They got Vegas beat on that. At least Vegas. Vegas just wins most of the time. Most of the time, that's right. And the number of folks, the students I worked with over the years that just think it's going to go away. It's not going to go away. It just doesn't.

30:54Dave Ramsey:Stuff has a high rate of resurrection. That's right, man. It will come back to life. Zombie debt just keeps coming back to life.

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32:44Dave Ramsey:Thanks for being with us. Ryan is in Detroit, Michigan. Hi, Ryan. How are you? Good. How are you guys doing? Better than we deserve. What's up? Okay, so I've been following your baby steps, and they've been working out very well for me. I'm active duty military, and I'm on baby step six. My wife and I are on baby step six. And we're just wondering, with us moving every four to five years, would it be wise to put money into the house to pay down the mortgage or to put the money aside in a savings or investment account. Well, when you move, you're going to sell the house, and they're going to give you a check.

33:25Dave Ramsey:Yes. So put it into the mortgage. And then someday there won't be a mortgage, and when you sell the house, they're going to give you a check, and when you buy the house, you're going to give them a check. Someday there'll be no mortgage, and you move from no mortgage to no mortgage. All right. Cool deal. Yeah, forced savings plan. Now, a couple of guidelines. Which branch are you in? uh close correct okay thank you for your service by the way yeah so you're not moving but every five years or so right yeah uh we we move every every four we can possibly extend to five yeah yeah because a lot of the army guys are every two so uh navy as well so uh especially earlier in their career um we work with the military a lot thank you again uh but anyway the um the thing to be sure of is it's not always in your case it's more likely but it's not always a good idea to buy yeah so what you want to be sure of is during your time in the market is the property going to increase enough in value to bother to own it so if you're only there two years and you're in a flat real estate market you would not buy you would rent.

34:42Dave Ramsey:You're better off. You're going to lose money. And if you're in a flat real estate market, you can't sell it when you get ready to leave. Now, your postings are largely around non - military base situations. You're in more of a civilian setting, right? Yeah. Like you're not going into one of these huge forts or whatever. These huge military communities where lots of people have bought a house and now they got them on the market because they move every two years. You don't have that issue. You're dealing with more direct consumers that are non-military. So that's going to help you make money on the resale because the market doesn't get glutted.

35:21Dave Ramsey:It doesn't get full. And so, you know, so for instance, my buddies in the Navy that are in San Diego, they do real well on a house, right? But if you move out in the middle of a cornfield in Kansas and there's nobody there but other military people, you're going to lose your butt on the house. Yeah. So just be careful with that kind of stuff. Now, again, your situation, because unique to the Coast Guard, it's going to be very different because, obviously, it's residing mainly around the coast. And so, duh. And so, yeah, that puts you in a different thing. And so I think in most cases it's not going to apply to you.

35:59Dave Ramsey:You're going to make money, so buying is going to be a good idea. So the answer to your question just stands. Get it paid off as fast as possible. Be sure when you buy next time you pay cash and pay it off. If you don't pay it off as soon as possible. And every time just move your equity from place to place to place. And then when you someday land and retire and you land in the place you're going to stay in, you've got I paid for a house. Yeah. Part of me, Dave, would be so tempted to rent in the least in the place where like had the bare minimum where we could live. Like this is good for us for right now.

36:32My friends in the military always say, yeah, but there's a psychological component. You get moved every few years. it's important to have tent stakes and i get that but there's a balance right you don't need the

36:41Dave Ramsey:taj mahal but you really don't want to be camping either yeah yeah there's there's a balance it's hard on mama yeah hard on the spouses kids they need to have a home yeah and you're doing this for 20 years so you're not bedouins yeah you're just in the military so uh they do live in tents but yeah but the thought of putting five different houses on the market over the course of 20 years drive me crazy if you're in if you're a corporate gypsy you got the same thing though yeah that's true if you're in a corporate setting and they move you every little every so often and you're you're bouncing city to city going up the ladder in corporate america yeah you got the same exact thing but you got to be able to sell the house because the market you're in you can't be buying in a dead butt market some kind of market where there's not any activity because it's not going to increase in value and then you got 273 days on the market right nine months you're looking at this stupid thing and y 'all are going to end up renting somewhere else yeah yep because you can't get your can't get in you're going to move twice in those so it just becomes messy and i get the psychological like if somebody's telling you when to be where where you're going to live what you're going to do when you get what you got to wear i get the idea of i have to have one thing that's my own it's just being careful about that thing not completely owning you again right exactly i get it but man that's tough that's tough but it also you know you can't apply the tiktok version of culture everybody ought to buy real estate no not really yeah not really there's Certain times you don't.

38:02Dave Ramsey:Not a good idea. Real estate's not good when you're playing a short game. Short game real estate's stupid. Yeah. So it gets you caught. It's a problem. Devin is in Oklahoma City. Hi, Devin. How are you? Hey, Dave. How are you today? Better than I deserve. How can we help? Well, I am a pastor, and I wanted to pick your brain on a possible career move. I make$40 ,000 a year, and I was thinking about moving into a different career, either in plumbing or home remodel. And I just had some concerns about where we're at financially and wanted to see how you would go about doing that. I mean, plumbing is basically the same job as a pastor, isn't it?

38:44Dave Ramsey:I guess in one area of thinking. Oh my gosh. Wow. That's an interesting move. So you just burn out on pastoring or what? Yeah, my wife and I, we, coming out of college, we're both 28 years old, and we had several jobs right after the other that were all just really hard. And, you know, the old expression, sheep bite. So that's just, we had some hard times, and so spiritually we're needing to take a step back. And I like working with my hands, and one day I want to own my own business. And so those were the areas I was thinking of. Yeah. Well, they do, and that's a shame, but they do. You're right.

39:26Dave Ramsey:Okay. Well, the question is how can you make the conversion without it being some kind of a leap? Conversion is not the right word. How can you make the transition without it being some kind of a leap? Yeah. Poor choice. Yeah. But the – so, I mean, like I don't want you to go make nothing to get to be a plumber. Let's start as an intern or doing stuff on the weekends or whatever to learn to do that. I don't want you to start from ground zero with no jobs as home remodeling. Have you done home remodeling? No, sir. I would be starting from nothing. Okay. All right. Do you know someone in the business?

40:04I have some ideas of where I could find some people.

40:07Dave Ramsey:I want you to edge in and go learn the business somewhere before you just open a business. Yes, sir. I was thinking of specifically with plumbing or remodeling, starting as just working with someone else first and then moving. So if you had someone that hired you that you don't know anything about remodeling and you're going to go to work for them, do you have any idea what they would pay you? No, sir. In our area in Oklahoma City, I'm assuming making$40 ,000 a year. You could probably make that, yeah. Yeah, exactly. You could make that shoveling drywall, yeah. Exactly. So I wasn't as concerned about that.

40:49My wife and I are, we just finished Baby Step 2 yesterday.

40:52Dave Ramsey:So as long as you're making the same money as you're making now and you're making it instantaneously, there's no change to your family other than you shifted what you do every day. Yes, I think so. Mathematically, if you make$40 ,000 as a plumber working for a plumber, or you make$40 ,000 working for a home remodel person, and you make$40 ,000 now, you just changed jobs mathematically. Okay. Doesn't affect it at all, agreed? I agree. I just wanted to make sure that that was actually, I wasn't just fooling myself and, you know, having rose-colored glasses about it. Rose-colored glasses would be, I don't know anything about remodeling, and I just bought a hammer and I opened a remodeling company.

41:35That's fair.

41:36Dave Ramsey:That would be rose-colored glasses. That would be a fool. But I talk to those sometimes. but you're not it and so if you can make the same money and make your change and then begin to learn a craft in an effort to say five years from now I'm going to make the move into my own space then I'm fine with that and there's nothing to say you can't serve in the church for the rest of your life most of us do and sometimes those ministries are as effective as staff

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43:48Dave Ramsey:welcome back to the ramsey show in the fair winds credit union studio dr john deloney ramsey personality number one best-selling author is my co-host today sarah is in baton rouge hi sarah how are you hi i'm good thank you better than i deserve right yeah amen how can we help So I am a divorced single mom of two boys. I am their primary caregiver. And one day I would like to remarry, but I am slated to inherit at least like$5 million of today's value. Hopefully I won't inherit it for another 20 years. But I just wanted to know y 'all's thoughts on a prenup, if that was something that would be good for my situation, or I wanted to know what y 'all thought about that.

44:37Dave Ramsey:In your situation, I do recommend it. Full disclosure, when I first started the show, I said never get a prenup. If you like stuff more than the person, don't get married. Marriage is hard enough, right? That was kind of my stance. But then after doing about, I don't know, two decades of financial coaching and crisis counseling where I found a bunch of weirdos involved, I changed my stance on prenups. And the reason I changed it was what I discovered in actual reality out here walking around in the wild is that where there is a dramatic amount of money difference or just a dramatic amount of money.

45:16Dave Ramsey:Right. The prenup not only helps the actual married couple, but more importantly, it helps the weirdos in their family. I didn't think about that. And so like you marry a beautiful, wonderful man and Cousin Eddie shows up and wants to open a pizza parlor with your money. Like a day after the honeymoon. Right. That's the crap that happens. And then your beautiful, wonderful man just goes, Cousin Eddie, I got a prenup. I can't say nothing. And you just look at Cousin Eddie and go, you can have a biscuit. And then we're going to send you on your way. And, you know, you can just, because the weirdos in one ring or two rings or three rings out, sometimes it's the parents, sometimes it's the kids, sometimes it's Cousin Eddie.

46:05Dave Ramsey:I don't know who it is, but the weirdos were the ones. And then what happens is they drive a wedge between you and your spouse. Right. Relational. Right, that's what I didn't want to happen. And the prenup is not to protect you from this wonderful man you meet. He's probably okay. That's the goal. Yeah, but I mean, really, you probably got pretty good taste, right? And so he's probably not the problem. It might be, but, you know, but the$5 million versus he's got a normal net worth of, you know,$400 ,000 or$500 ,000 or nothing or whatever, and he's just a good dude that works hard and saves his money and pays his bills and whatever, and, you know, and you guys love Jesus and you're going to church and life is good, right?

46:46Dave Ramsey:Everything's good. So y 'all will be fine, but this just keeps everybody clear. But you shouldn't do that on small amounts of money. Like I had one lady call up and say her boyfriend wanted a prenup for his 1967 Mustang. And I'm like, hey, don't marry this guy. He likes cars more than he likes you. A stupid car? Really? No, that's planning your divorce right there. That's different. All right, Sarah, I want to ask Dave a question on your behalf, okay? Great. Dave, if you're Sarah and somebody sets you up and you roll your eyes and you're like, who the hell I'll go, and you have a great time, and you go out again, and you go out again, when would you sit down and say, hey, I got$5 million in an account?

47:39Would that be something you wait until you're engaged to talk about? That would be something because my. I would not get engaged. Before they knew. No. It has to be way before that.

47:49Dave Ramsey:But, I mean, at the same time, you would talk about anything in your account. Like, you know, let's start talking about money. Well, you don't do that on the first date. That would be weird, you know. But, I mean, once you start talking about using language in your sentences about spending a lot. Building a future together. Building a future together. Then you start going, well, that includes let's talk about your crazy mother. Yeah. Let's talk about what do you feel about debt. I can't stand debt. I did that Dave Ramsey thing. Some people do that on the first date. That's strange. But yeah, I think it's strange.

48:24Dave Ramsey:I think as you're getting serious in the relationship, you start talking about the important things. I want to know exactly where you stand on religion, on money, on in-laws, on kids. They're going to know about your kids immediately. And you don't have the$5 million right now anyway. It's off in the future somewhere. Yes, sir. And hypothetically, something could go sideways and you didn't even get it. Absolutely, yeah. You know, I definitely try to be a good steward of the money that I'm blessed with, and I know that this is not money that I've earned, so I don't expect it. And I would just say it has nothing to do with you.

49:06Dave Ramsey:I've just gotten good counsel that says all the people in our lives are, it gives us a boundary with them if we have this done. Yeah, I think when you start talking about the important things in life, the money would be on the list. Yeah. Not because money's important, but because what it represents. Yeah. And I don't know, what do you think? You're the PhD in counseling. When should you bring it up? No, I think you're right. I think I would, this is me personally, I think I would always be haunted by, did that accelerate our relationship? Did that get you more excited to marry me? Which for myself is my own red flag.

49:45It would be a me red flag, not a them red flag. But I don't know. There's something like I'm a romantic at heart. And there's something cool about my wife getting married and her being like, oh, by the way, When I told you we were well off, like, here's the number. That sounds awesome, but that's not reality. No, that's some kind of book you're written. Fiction book, yeah. Exactly. So, yeah, I think you have to put on the table, and I think you have to get through the initial discomfort of maybe him thinking, oh, I wanted to be the macho breadwinner, and suddenly I'm marrying somebody who's a multimillionaire, or vice versa, you putting the discomfort on the table.

50:22I'm nervous to say this out loud because I'm afraid you're going to like me more just because I've got this inherited wealth. Or it's just going to cause weirdness. It's just going to cause weirdness, yeah. Money does that. But all relationships have to get through weirdness and awkwardness and just an uncomfortable conversation. So it's just another one in a long list of uncomfortable conversations anybody getting together is going to have to have. Yeah, and constant. Yeah, it's always going on.

50:46Dave Ramsey:That's right. So, Sarah, you know, it's interesting. I tell people when we're just talking about money in general that wealth magnifies everything. the good and the bad so like if someone has a temper and they become wealthy they become a bully crazy if someone is compassionate and generous and they become wealthy they become what we call a philanthropist and they're constantly known for their generosity that becomes their personal brand you know and so if crazy is in your family and all of us have crazy in our family if you don't think you have crazy in your family, it's you. Yeah. So, I mean, everybody's got crazy.

51:29Dave Ramsey:So crazy in your family is magnified. And so that's what I'm looking at with this 5 million. It's going to magnify everything. It's going to magnify the awkwardness that John is talking about in the dating relationship. And you know what? You just said something important. I would actually relationally lead with, here's who I am. I'm a person who tips like crazy. I'm a person who gives to my church or to charitable organizations. That's who I am. I would lead with the identity part early on in a relationship as we get to know each other. I'm a person who doesn't borrow money. That's right. I'm a person who doesn't borrow money.

52:00Dave Ramsey:I believe in saving money. I believe in living on a plan. That's right. I plan my budget. I plan my time. Here's how much money I got. And then later on, oh by the way, my mom and dad are rich. They left me a bunch of money when they died. That's way down the list though. That's a good point.

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54:06Dave Ramsey:The question of the day is sponsored by Why Refi? Private student loans in default can feel like you're stuck. But Why Refi works with borrowers, whether other lenders want creating fixed rate plans tailored to your ability to pay. Go to yrefy.com slash Ramsey right now. The letter is y-r-e-f-y dot com slash Ramsey. Not in all states. Today's question comes from Abigail in Indiana. Abigail writes, my husband passed away very recently. I'm sorry. I have a problem with family and friends who have started asking for personal items that belong to him. Some of the requests are for sentimental reasons, but there are also requests for things that are of monetary value.

54:52I'm still grieving and not ready to make these decisions right now. What is the morally right thing to do?

55:01Dave Ramsey:I'm still grieving and I'm not ready to make these decisions right now. That's right. No. Or I'm not doing anything. I'm not giving away anything for nine months and I'll get back to you. Yeah. I'll tell you what, I'm keeping a little list and I'll put you down the list, But right now, I'm just crying.

55:21Dave Ramsey:You have no moral obligation. None. Whatsoever. Zero. To start handing out stuff.

55:32Dave Ramsey:Especially, it just feels like vultures circling. It does feel gross. Like, yeah. And I went Grandma's China. Yeah. Oh, brother. It's like a bad Hallmark movie. um and by the way if if somebody says oh i was really hoping to get that though then they've crossed their name off the list the friend that says hey we used to go hunting together and he had this awesome rifle can i buy it i would love to buy it from you um or when you're ready yeah yeah and you say hey in nine months i'm not ready like oh yeah yeah yeah absolutely i'm gonna make sure all of his other friends know that's that's somebody put a star by on their name But if someone's like, oh, really?

56:11I deserve this. Yeah.

56:12Dave Ramsey:You deserve to hit the road. He promised me I could. And we're out. Yeah. Man. Gross, gross, gross. That's hard. People, this is gross. And she says, passed away very recently. Yeah, this isn't like a year. It sounds like a month ago or a couple weeks ago. It's like three days later. Here they come. I want my casserole dish back and I want Grandma's Bible. I mean, come on. Wow. Hmm. yeah that's um so the the the other side of this is funny sharon's dad is 96 getting ready to be 97 in perfect health in perfect mind he's a wonderful man and he is so funny he's like everybody get you a sticky note and put something that's how my grandparents were so you go through the whole house there's freaking sticky notes on everything that's how my grandparents were it's like oh somebody got to that one before us you had to do underneath it you had to do underneath it on the back of the picture so you had to look it's on the back of the the it's so funny it's like yeah but hey i actually like that it's first come first serve you want to come visit me well and he's doing it he's initiating it while he's alive that's right it's that's like his will that's what my grandmother part of his will yeah it's just it's funny yeah like y 'all want something here's some sticky notes you know it keeps the fighting down later i'm trying to just imagine He promised me.

57:32Imagine the conversation of me calling even one of my closest friends, Spout, wife.

57:37Dave Ramsey:The chances of me asking for something is zero. I just can't imagine. I'm trying to figure out how I would have that call. How would you? The only conversation is what I can give. Yeah. How can I help? What can I do? How can I help? Okay, by the way, he had that shirt I really wanted. Can I have a sofa? That fishing tackle. Jeez Louise. Holy. What are you people? It's unbelievable. Gosh. Tiffany is in Cleveland, Ohio. Hi, Tiffany. What's up? Hi, Dave. Hi, Dr. John. Thank you so much for taking my call. This is exciting. Exciting to have you. How can we help? Great. Yeah. So my husband and I, along with my mom, we are planning to move to Florida to be closer to both of our families.

58:16We unfortunately lost my dad back in December until this move was put as close to my brother and his family. And then my husband's family just moved down to the same area back last fall.

58:25Dave Ramsey:Wow. My question is my, yeah, my husband and I, we are both 43. We are in baby step two. We've been tackling our debt very hard this year. We've already paid off about$25 ,000. We have$65 ,000 in consumer debt left. So my question is, when we get ready to make this move, because we do have two houses that we have to get cleaned out and sold, when we are ready to start doing that - Stop, stop, stop, stop. We don't have anything. Do you own a house? No. We have a mortgage on our home. I mean, you have a house. You and your husband have a house. And then your mother-in-law has a house. My mom has a house.

59:04Dave Ramsey:Okay. So there's not, we don't have two houses. She has a house and you have a house. Yes, correct. Okay. All right. But you're going to help her with the clean out and all that kind of stuff. We're going to help her. But this is not, we're not turning this into a commune. Okay. No, no, no, no, no. They were married for 55 years. They have 55 years worth of stuff. Oh, God. Hoarders. Yes, I got you. Okay. On an acre of property in four buildings. So we have some work to do there. Okay, but that's just helping her move. Okay. And then you've got to sell your house. So what is your house worth? So our house, right now we're anywhere between$100 to$120.

59:40We're expecting to make us a profit on the sale of our home.

59:42Dave Ramsey:Oh, so it pays off to$65 and you've got some money to move with? Correct. Good. Okay. Which was my question is, do you suggest that when we are ready to, you know, get a little closer to this, which the goal is to start working on this in January, that we pause our baby steps and stack up cash, knowing that there is going to be expenses to move from Ohio to Florida. They're going to give you a check when you sell your house. Right. You don't need a stack-up cash. You're getting$100 ,000. Okay. Right? I wasn't sure. Aren't you? Yes, we're going to get the money. I just didn't know if to be proactive to have a little bit of saved up, you know, before we do that.

1:00:21So I wasn't sure. Well, here's the issue.

1:00:22Dave Ramsey:Okay, let's pretend that you save up$10 ,000, okay? Yes. And so you don't pay$10 ,000 worth of debt. When you sell your house, that's$10 ,000 more of debt you have to pay. Correct. So you didn't really gain anything. No, so it's like six of one half of the other. And that's what I wasn't sure on. Like I was, I think, just looking, crunching the numbers too much and just driving myself nuts. So what I would do is just make the move 100 % debt-free and have an emergency fund. If you have enough left after that to put a down payment on a house in Florida, buy. If not, you may have to rent for a couple years and save up your down payment in Florida, but you're debt-free with an emergency fund.

1:01:05Well, here's the other part of the question. With the sale of my mom's home, her and my dad did everything correctly. She is debt-free. she has already discussed in gifting us on the sale of her home, gifting us money for the down payment for the house in Florida.

1:01:24Dave Ramsey:Is she going to be living with you? Yes. Oh, complicated. Oh, yeah, a little complicated. Yeah, I know, a lot. Do you have siblings? Yeah. That's why they're moving. We do. Yes. I have an older brother. This is something we have discussed. This process of moving was something that my dad had very much wanted to do. That was the goal. Unfortunately, his health just didn't hold out for them to realize it. I would get it all in writing, just to make sure everybody's clear. Yes. Yes, we're getting it. So if you take a portion of, is it just you and your brother? Yes, it's just my brother and I. Okay, so if you take a, let's pretend that there's a half million dollars of inheritance when your mom passes away.

1:02:08Dave Ramsey:Okay? Your brother's going to get$250, you're going to get$250, but she's going to give you of that$250,$150 up front before she dies. Correct. Then that uncomplicates it greatly. If she only has$150 and it all goes in your house and your brother gets screwed unless you resell your house when she dies, this is not a good plan. No. We've looked at it with the financial advisor she has. there is enough right now without factoring in any interest that grows on any of her IRAs and all that. Your brother would be easily getting half without touching your house you live in. Okay. Correct. That makes it a lot cleaner.

1:02:48Dave Ramsey:Then all she's doing is advancing you, part of your inheritance, and she's going to live with you in return for the advance. Yeah. Okay. That's cool. That's cool. Yeah, but that gives you a real incentive to get everything cleaned up and shiny, and let's get it all sold off. Yeah. Let's load up the truck and head to Beverly. Hills, that is. Swimming pools and movie stars. Black gold. This is tea. Gotta be old to know what that is. Gotta be really old right there.

1:03:37Thank you.

1:04:13Dave Ramsey:In the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on the debt-free stage, Eladio and Carla are with us. Hey guys, how are you? Hi Dave. Hi John. Welcome. Good to have you guys. Where do you live? We're in Los Angeles, California. Ah, fun. Well, welcome to Nashville. Good to have you. And here to do a debt-free scream all the way across the nation. So how much debt did you two pay off? With your advice and with God's grace, we paid off$312 ,000. Wow! How long did this take? Five years. Five years? Yeah. Very cool. Wow! That's amazing, guys. And you're way... Y 'all are impressive. Your range of income during that five years?

1:04:54It was$100 ,000 to$130 ,000.

1:04:58Dave Ramsey:Cool. And what do you guys do for a living? I work for UPS and also in a restaurant. And I'm a physical therapist assistant. Very cool. What kind of debt was this,$312 ,000? It's a mortgage. The mortgage! You have a house in Los Angeles that's paid for. Yes. Y 'all really are weirdos. I love it. Amazing, guys. Great weirdos. Glory to God. Awesome. What's the house worth? About$600 ,000. Yeah. Amazing. Congratulations. Thank you. Thank you. You guys, you know that in California it's illegal to own your house. I know. Yes, we've heard. I mean, oh my gosh, this is great, y 'all. I'm so proud of you.

1:05:41Dave Ramsey:Thank you. What in the world? This is so cool. And how old are you two? We're 39. 39 years old. You're not even 40? We have a paid-for$600 ,000 house in Los Angeles, California. How much in your nest egg, in your savings, your retirement savings? We haven't checked. We haven't checked yet. Autopilot. We forgot about it. About. We have to check. About. We're not millionaires yet. Not what? Not$400K then? No. Okay, because if it's$400K with a$600K house, you'd be a baby steps millionaire. All right. But you're on your way at 40 years old. You're almost there, and you're saving like crazy. You're working two jobs.

1:06:18Dave Ramsey:You're doing everything. Very neat. And you paid off your home in five years. It's worth$600K. Tell me how y 'all got started on all this Ramsey stuff. So how we got started seven years ago, it was, you know, a coworker that introduced us to the baby steps. His name is David, and he got me started on the financial piece online, the self-study. And so I try to get my husband on board. He resisted. You know, he wanted to do his own thing. But what finally did it was the biblical principles that you teach. So, yeah, you know, God's Word never returned empty, and the Word just started to transform and edify our lives.

1:07:01And I was just starting my Christian walk at that time. Oh, wow. Yeah, it was really the Word.

1:07:05Dave Ramsey:What church do you all attend in Los Angeles? It's in Pomona, and it's called Rios de Agua Viva, Spanish service. Oh, Spanish church. Okay, all right. And so obviously you're a Hispanic community. What country were you from? From Mexico. Mexico. Awesome. Very cool. What part? Guerrero. Oh, yeah. Fun. Okay, cool. Cool. Good deal. So what was it like your wife comes in and says, hey, I went to church. You can't buy anything. No clothes, cars. We're getting out of debt. It's kind of hard to do that. But she made it. Yeah. Yeah. So. What do you do for UPS? Oh, I work in the airport. Okay. So just moving the cans to the airplane.

1:07:52And then what do you do in the restaurant? Like help to the servers. Okay. All right. Okay. So here's what's important. And you're a physician.

1:08:02Dave Ramsey:Physical therapist assistant? Yeah. A tech assistant. PT. So y 'all, neither of y 'all are working executive jobs. No. You're not working upper management jobs. Y 'all are out there grinding it out. Yeah. And we started from nothing. like poverty like we were living off of his income as a cook before before he like moved up and um yeah so you're throwing boxes and helping servers and you're i was in school dealing with egos right now yeah i mean you're helping clients y 'all are grinding it out yeah he's had two jobs for forever but this but this but you you know as well as anybody the the story is you cannot get ahead you can't do it yeah it's impossible you can't do it nobody can do it unless you are one of these these special unicorn jobs and you guys you guys just did it anyway hold my hold my beer here we go I mean this is incredible glory to God amen way to go God hey God I'm speechless right now it's so cool what y 'all have accomplished is so amazing yeah you're heroes they have you've changed your whole family tree.

1:09:14Dave Ramsey:And you're proof that the great American dream is alive and well. Yes, it is. Very proud of y 'all. Anything is possible with Christ. Amen. Well, and two jobs for five years also. Grinding and grinding and grinding. Diligent to prosper, Proverbs says. So there we go. Excellence in the ordinary over time. That's diligence. Yeah. Way to go, y 'all. Way to go. Impressive. All right. So when one of your friends comes up and he's making fun of you when you're moving some boxes around at the airport about you bringing your sandwich so you can get out of debt, right? And he goes, oh, you can't do that.

1:09:51Dave Ramsey:You say, yeah, you can. All you got to do is, what do you tell them the main thing you got to do to get out of debt? Well, just don't spend anything. If you don't need it, you don't have to spend money. Would you please run for Congress? Please. Please. Please. We need you desperately. We need you. You don't need it. Just don't buy it. In the house of the wise are stores of choice, food and oil, but a foolish man devours all he has. Wise people save money. You got it, man. You're a wise man. You're a wise man. What's the one thing that you married a wise woman you wish you could have bought? Maybe his truck.

1:10:33He still doesn't have it, but yeah, he's been wanting a truck.

1:10:37Dave Ramsey:Now you can save up and get one pretty quick, huh? No house payment. We had to cut a lot of things. Do what? We had to cut a lot of things. Yeah. What's the first big thing now that you don't have a house payment? What's the thing you're going to go buy right now? We're just going to do a couple house projects, pay cash for that, and travel a little bit more. Okay. Good. Good. Breathe a little. Yeah. Because you've been getting it. Yeah. You've been shoveling hard. Yeah. So way to go, you two. I'm very proud of you. You're heroes. You're amazing. Those two beautiful children there have had their whole lives changed, and your grandchildren and your great-grandchildren's lives have been changed because of you paying a price to win.

1:11:14Dave Ramsey:You're amazing. Very cool. All right, bring them up and introduce them. I want to meet them. What are their names and ages? Amy. She's 10. And this is Kate. She's 7. Oh, they're beautiful. All right. Very cool. Very cool. I think they're daddy's girls. I'm about to say something. When you watch, if you go back and watch this YouTube, watching a dad smile that big as he watches his daughters is one of my favorite things in the whole wide world. Seeing a dad so proud of his two beautiful daughters, amazing. Man, you guys are just. Yeah, we're very proud of them for being with us during our struggles.

1:11:51This is so cool. And living this experience with us. Yeah, they'll remember.

1:11:54Dave Ramsey:They'll remember even being here and doing that weird debt-free scream thing with that weird hillbilly guy in Tennessee. Yeah. But that marked the time. This is the time. Your whole thing has changed now. It's all changed, and you did it. Very, very well done. Ready for the sandwich generation. Amen. Sure. Amen. Well, there's that, but we can put some meat on the sandwich. I'm just saying. All right. Very good. All right. Eladio, Carla, Amy, and Kate from Los Angeles. $600 ,000 houses paid for,$312 ,000 in debt paid off in five years working at UPS and as a cook in a restaurant. and she is a physical therapist assistant or PT?

1:12:35PTA.

1:12:36Dave Ramsey:PTA, okay, perfect, yeah, cool. Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream. Ready? Three, two, one. We're debt-free! Yeah!

1:12:52Dave Ramsey:Wow! Boom! Yes! It never gets old. I've been doing this 30 years, and I never cease to get choked up, especially when somebody that works that stinking hard can make this happen. That one got me. That's incredible. Absolutely incredible.

1:13:51Outro Music

1:14:22Dave Ramsey:you know when you're tackling debt or you're building wealth people can often forget about one more important step, and that's while you're playing defense, you can play offense. I mean, you're playing offense, you need to also play defense, and that's insurance. Having the right coverage as opposed to too little or too much and not getting junk coverage and all that stuff, skimping on insurance or buying stupid insurance, these things will kill you. They'll mess up your math big time. So how do you know? Well, you take the free coverage checkup at RamseySolutions.com. It's a free online resource that creates a personalized insurance action plan unique to you and your situation, makes an overly confusing topic easy to understand, gives you clear next steps.

1:15:06Dave Ramsey:Go to RamseySolutions.com slash checkup to take the coverage checkup or click the link in the description if you're listening on YouTube or podcast. Amy is in Philadelphia. Hi, Amy. How are you? I'm good. How are you? Better than I deserve. of. What's up? Great. I have a question. I have a rental property and I've had a tenant who's been in there for three years and she just lost her job and she wasn't able to pay August rent. And I'm trying to follow up with September rent. And I want to be, you know, aware of her situation, But I also just wanted to see maybe how you would handle, you know, not getting paid her portion of the rent and what I can do to work with her.

1:15:59Dave Ramsey:Her portion of the rent? Yeah. So there's three tenants and the three tenants and I just charge a monthly fee. However, they pay for it. They pay for it. So they just split it up in three ways is how they've been paying for it. So the other two are paying their rent, but the other one, you know, she lost her job. Do you have a lease with the three of them in total or a lease with each individual? Three of them in total. Okay, so the only way you evict is all of them. Correct. And the other people are sitting there thinking they're current. I think so. Because they think they paid their part and they think you're okay.

1:16:47Yeah, I talked to her and see if she wanted to bring the other, like, if I should bring the other tenants into it. Oh, definitely.

1:16:54Dave Ramsey:They're on the lease. They're going to get evicted with her. Right. Yeah, so they needed to have already been in the loop, like, immediately as soon as you were. So, okay, guys, here's the thing. The three of you have together told me you're going to pay me X number of dollars. you chose to split it up three ways okay so you are behind on your rent group okay because of her losing her job now do you guys want to come do you guys want to come together and cover her until she gets a job or how are we going to work this out right you need to sit down with the three of them. Are you near the property physically?

1:17:40I'm not. I'm about two hours away.

1:17:43Dave Ramsey:Okay. Then get a phone call with all three of them on the phone and say, here's what's going on. I probably should have brought you into the loop a little bit sooner because you probably feel like you're current and you're not. Okay. So now then from that position, once we've gotten clarity on where we all stand, that either we all three pay all the rent or we all three can't stay. Long term, that's our solution. Now, then from that point, everybody's on the same page. Everybody can talk. And then you can decide how much mercy and grace you want to dole out. Okay. You've already doled out a month of one third.

1:18:24Right. Mm-hmm.

1:18:26Dave Ramsey:Okay, and you're getting ready to dole out another month of one-third. Right. Like today. Correct. Right? So how long are you going to go along with this before she goes and gets a job doing DoorDash and pays her dad gum rent? Yeah. I guess I don't know that. You need to know. You're going to get taken advantage of if you don't know. I don't care how much generosity or mercy you want to extend. It doesn't bother me a bit because I do the same thing. We had a tenant that had cancer, and we didn't charge him rent for four months. But we said at the outset when the chemo starts, we're going to give you four months, and let's see how this goes.

1:19:08Dave Ramsey:You've been a good tenant for three years. We're just going to forgive the rent. We're not going to charge you. You've got enough to deal with. I don't owe any money on the house. You can live here free for four months. And after four months, we're going to revisit in the third month before we decide how long. But we're not going to do this for eight years while you go through chemo. Right. I guess, like, it would say for me would probably be three months because I do have the security deposit, which would cover, like, her third. Like, if she didn't pay for three months. Yeah. Okay. So, you know, it might sound like here's what I want to do.

1:19:44Dave Ramsey:The first thing I want to do is shock them. Stick them with a cattle prod, all right? and get everybody on the same page where they're going, oh, no, oh, crap, right? And we go, okay, wait a minute. We are all getting ready to have to move because June doesn't have a job, right, or whatever her name is, right? And so we've got to figure this out together. We have a problem, not June, all right, and not Amy. Amy doesn't have a problem. Amy's getting ready to get her house back. So now based on that, guys, here's what I'm willing to do. You guys get together and figure out a way to cover September and October between June working part-time jobs while she's looking for a full-time job and you two chipping in.

1:20:25Dave Ramsey:And I'll forgive her portion for August. Okay. Or something like that. You can offer a gift, but only in context of a limited arrangement. does that also does that make sense to you yeah it does it does because like i mean i've already gone without in august so yeah i don't know yeah and you're probably gonna go without in september unless you get on the phone today and so but you guys can you guys can catch me up a little bit later in september but the three of you between a part-time job and the two of you catching on to what's going on here need to come up with september's rent and you two go ahead and send me your two-thirds we got to come up with june's third and and then y 'all figure out between now and october how to do it and y 'all get current and stay current and i'll in return i'll forgive one-third of this uh just to try to help y 'all could make the corner but she needs to go get a job listen there's not a program where she stays free anywhere homeless shelter right but that's it.

1:21:31And Amy, her roommates, her friends are going to be an infinitely more influential voice in her life than yours. You have an on-off switch. You have an either-or switch. They can sit down with her and say, hey, we love you. We're going to help you with your resume. We're going to call our friends. We'll see if we can get you a job here. But if you're looking to be graceful for life change, they're going to be closer to that. You just have a big hammer.

1:21:57Dave Ramsey:And you can be kind and gentle but firm. Exactly. I love that. Okay. And you're not being firm right now. You've been very vague and unclear. Gotcha. Because right now they think they're okay, and that's not fair to them. The two that paid their rent, they think everything's cool. Right. And the way you've got this lease structured, it ain't cool. They're in jeopardy too. Right. So, again, we're not trying to be mean, but the first thing I want to do is throw cold water and everybody gets awake. And now we've turned the lights on in the room. And now that the lights are on in the room, everybody can talk and we go, okay, now, how can we all work together to solve this in a gentle and kind, compassionate way, but a very effective business-like way at the same time?

1:22:41Dave Ramsey:And so we're going to solve the problem. We're going to solve for the problem. And then you're going to put some of it on them. You're going to help a little. I don't know if you give up August or not. That was a suggestion of mine. It's not a mandatory thing. You're not a horrible person if you don't. You're not a horrible person if you give up her third for August and September. I don't care. But I do care for a lack of clarity. You're going to get yourself in a bind, and you're not being fair to them. And I do care the lack of clarity also on no limitations. There has to be an end to this because there's no place, if you've got cancer or you don't have a job, there's no place that you live for free ultimately.

1:23:18Dave Ramsey:I mean, we can be kind, but this is not forever. This is not an infinite spectrum. there has to be at some point there's an end to it and that's where people remember the story 25 years later when they don't put limits on stuff that puts us out of the Ramsey Show in the books

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1:24:48Dave Ramsey:Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio. Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author, is my co-host. Samantha is in California. Hi, Samantha. How are you? Hi there. Thanks for taking my call. I'm good. Sure. What's up? How can we help? So I've listened to you and followed your plan for years. I work currently on Baby Step 6. I'm employed, and I also co-own a business with my husband. Unfortunately, we're probably getting divorced due to infidelity on his side. and I will receive a substantial settlement after the division of our assets. With the divorce money, I'll be paying off the rest of the mortgage that'll be debt-free.

1:25:31My question is, with the remaining money, should I keep my lifestyle the same so that it doesn't change much for my three young kids and me, or should I save it and invest it for the future and just live off of my income?

1:25:44Dave Ramsey:Okay, so one of the things that's being divested is your half of the business that you run together? Correct, yes. But you're still going to be working there? No, so he would need to buy me out of the business. Okay, so what will you be doing for a living then? So I am a nurse, so I have a good income from that. Oh, so you currently are nursing and working in the business? Yes. Oh, okay. I misunderstood. All right. I'm back with you now. And so the, okay, so what do you make as a nurse? So I make about$90 ,000 a year gross. Good. That's excellent. It's a great career, by the way. You get to pick and choose what you want to do when you want to do it and make a lot of money.

1:26:35Dave Ramsey:And you can live on that, I assume, with a paid-for house. Yes. Yeah, I've run through the finances, and we would be fine. Okay. And how old are your babies? They are five, six, and seven. Okay. And if you can live on$90 ,000 in a paid-for house, that is not the lifestyle that the five-year-old is accustomed to? So they go to a private Christian school. They're in all kinds of sports. We travel a lot. so it's just it would be cutting back on some things it would just be like a little bit tighter for what they're used to who's paying for the Christian splitting the Christian school after the divorce

1:27:24that's a good question he doesn't love the idea that they're there so it would probably fall on me he would rather than be at a public school

1:27:32Dave Ramsey:well you haven't negotiated the settlement yet I don't care what he wants He decided he wanted somebody else, and that takes a lot of the care of what he wants out of the whole thing. So I don't give a crap what he wants.

1:27:44Dave Ramsey:Once he decides not to behave, my care for him has gone away. So what do you guys make now? What's your current household income? It's hard with a business. I've run the numbers for the actual business valuation, and it's about$1.7 million. The valuation. But, I mean, what's your income? Correct. Making a couple of hundred a year, and then you're making 90 a year? Yeah. Okay. All right. But he's going to be paying child support, correct? Of course. Yes. Yeah. And substantial in California with a$250 ,000 income. And what is the lump sum you're getting? How much money? What I've calculated out to be would be, like, after paying off the house and keeping the equity in the house, because I'm assuming I'm going to hopefully be able to stay in the house, I would get around$650 ,000.

1:28:43Dave Ramsey:Okay, so if we pretend like that doesn't exist and we count child support and you live on$90 ,000, we deal with the Christian school and the divorce decree. He pays half and you pay half. I think you can trim some of the travel sports back and a little bit of the ultra luxury travel back and get your life in a sustainable situation on$100 ,000 a year. That's what I would do. I would not touch the$650 ,000. I'd pay off the house, and then you ought to be able to live on$90 ,000, even in California. And believe me, the ones that are going to be more impacted by the lifestyle cut than anyone is you, and they're going to take their cues from you.

1:29:22Dave Ramsey:They're five. They don't, they really don't. Like, oh, you mean we don't get to fly private? No, that doesn't come up with a five-year-old. Right, yeah. Here's two things I want you to be, one thing to be careful of and one thing to be super cognizant of, okay? The first thing is this. You have calculated on the back of a napkin, probably anxiously typing away at Excel sheets or however you're dealing with the stress of all of this. whatever number you've come up with will probably not be the final number. Right. And the problem with that is if you have imagined that you're going to get a check for$1.2 million, pay off the$600 ,000 remaining on the house and put$650 ,000, if you get a check for$1 million, you're going to feel like he stole$200 ,000 from you.

1:30:18Your kids will feel it. You'll feel it. The whole thing will go south. And so I want you to be very open-handed with the imaginary money you're playing with right now because they're going to get three different evaluations of this business that might range all over the place in a divorce court or a mediator might tell you to take the average. Who knows how this rolls out? And so it's holding it very open-handed. You're entering into a very messy, heartbreaking situation. okay and i get on your side trying to control every variable because some guy just blew your life up i get that impulse um and you want to take care of your kids mama bear's coming out i get all that but just hold the math part very loosely not because i want you to be weak in the negotiation

1:31:08Dave Ramsey:not at all be firm and strong but i want you to take everything but the uh in the negotiation that's not the point as a matter of fact i'd be okay if you got 1.5 when you come out of this things. So it suits me fine. He chose. It's just an expensive decision what he made. And so the because a divorce turns a marriage into a business transaction, an adversarial business transaction. Yeah, not a win-win business transaction, but adversarial. Yeah. And so child support, lump sums for businesses, alimony, all of those things are on the table until they're not on the table and you agree to whatever you agree to in the settlement.

1:31:45Dave Ramsey:But we start with, I'm holding a winning hand and you screwed up. That's where we start. And so, and then we, you know, then we decide which cards we want to play, which chips we want to move to the center, those kinds of things to John's point. But don't get all dialed in on a certain number and then only to find out that you missed one of your calculations. Well, he has hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt you don't know about. And it's going to, who knows what the, what plays out when people start opening up all their bank accounts, to text messages, et cetera. Here's the other thing I want you to be very careful of.

1:32:19People like to say things like, I don't want my kids' lives to change. And you need to exhale that every part of their life is different now. And so fully owning their sports is going to be different. Their Saturday mornings are going to be different because now you're going to be working full time. And so your ability to just hop in a car and go on a trip or to do this sport or that sport. Everything's different now. And so trying to hang on to their life as it is and duct tape all this other stuff to it creates an angst in that house that those kids, it will just permeate their bodies. So exhaling and saying, the life we had is over.

1:32:58What life do we want to build with my current salary, with the settlement, with our house, or selling the house, whatever. We're solving for peace. Build something new and solve for peace. Don't solve for trying to keep everything exactly the same as it was. Because they know it's not the same. It's not the same. Because it's not the same.

1:33:34What's up, guys? George Camel here. If you've been thinking about making a real difference in your community, this is your moment. People are drowning in money stress right now, and you can be the one who helps them by leading a Financial Peace University class. It's totally free for you, and we hook you up with all the tools and support you need. So if you're ready to help people ditch debt, save money, and actually sleep at night, go to fpu.com slash lead to learn more. That's fpu.com slash lead.

1:34:11Dave Ramsey:Buying or selling a home is a big deal. You definitely want an expert, someone who really does it, not just got their license. Your Aunt Sally's never sold a house, but she got a license. I don't want her in my corner. I want an expert in my corner. The Ramsey Trusted Program is the only way to find a high-octane, high-protein top agent in your area that you can trust to help you make your home a blessing, not a burden. To find a local Ramsey trusted real estate pro for free, go to RamseySolutions.com slash agent or just click the description in the show notes. Shannon's in Iowa. Hi, Shannon. How are you?

1:34:46Hi, Dave and John. Thank you so much for taking my call today. It's truly an honor to talk to both of you.

1:34:51Dave Ramsey:You too. What's up? Hey, I am actually hoping that you guys could provide a little bit of reassurance and maybe just be that good sounding board for my husband and I. Okay. Just to give you some context, we are currently in baby step six, thanks to your plans and practices. So thank you for everything you do. But I wanted to kind of get your guys' opinion. So my husband has currently been on a night shift for about 10 years now, and he currently brings home about 70 % of our$220 ,000 income each year. The issue that we're running into is he is finally hitting his breaking point. He's busted his back for the last 10 years.

1:35:34He's just getting burnt out. We have four small kids at home. And he's just, you know, they're getting involved.

1:35:41Dave Ramsey:What does he make if he goes to day shift? I'm sorry? What does he make? He makes$150 now. What does he make if he goes to day shift? So it would be dramatically cut. So we're looking at almost 50 % in decrease. So it would be about$80 ,000. Okay. And you make$70? Yep, around there. Okay, so you would live on$150 instead of$220, and you're in Baby Step 6? Correct. How much is your house payment? It is$2 ,100. Well, I don't know why you couldn't do that in Iowa. Exactly. So just to give some context, I ran some numbers, and that is, you know, in the every dollar. that's still putting away$1 ,400 for extra payment because we're aggressively trying to get out of step six.

1:36:29Dave Ramsey:Yeah, what do you owe in your home? We owe$292, and it's valued at about... It's going to be a while. It's going to be a while. Yeah, all right. That's okay. How old are you guys? So my husband is 38. I'm 35. And then that is, we are very blessed with our employer that we do get end-of-year profit sharing. So last year alone, it was about$25 ,000, which we... That was not in the$220 ,000 you gave me? That is not, no. Oh, so that's not your real income. Your real income is$250 ,000. Yeah. Okay, all right. So, Shannon, here's the thing. Here's the thing. I would go to day shifts as soon as I could if I were you.

1:37:10Okay.

1:37:12Dave Ramsey:Under one big condition. Yes. Both of us look at the every dollar budget and agree we're going to live on that. Yep. So you can't like, oh, surprise. No, we're not surprised. We're like grownups. We're looking at the numbers. We are willing to live on this number instead of that number. Yep. And that's our Sunday tradition. We look at our every dollar budget every Sunday, and we are so in sync. What does he do for a living? He is in the manufacturing world, so he's in a factory, a hot factory. Okay, so he's on the line. He's working on the line. Yes. Okay. Yep. Very aggressive, but he is a provider.

1:38:03That's what he knows to do. So I think he's just nervous. And I show him the numbers, but he doesn't believe me. So I'm like, you know what? I'm going to call David John. Hey, Shannon, this one's not about numbers. No. This is about worth and purpose. Yep. And putting away the spreadsheets and looking across the table and holding both of his hands and looking them in the eye and saying, honey, I'm so proud of you. We did it. We did it. We're here. You gave up. Literally, he's going to die younger for that decade. He worked nights. You gave up years off your life so that we could breathe. And now it's time to breathe.

1:38:38You're a good man. He needs that more than he needs a spreadsheet from you right now. Wonderful, wonderful. man yeah he needs that he needs that and by the way he put in his 10 years um he's going to go back to day shift for about seven or eight months and someone's going to take him for management he's going to double his salary right back he's putting his time right he's grounded out if he wants it he may not want that no he said he's like i just want to be home with my babies i want to be

1:39:03Dave Ramsey:able to be you can do that and be a management make double you can do both yep you can do both Yep. So during the same day hours that you'd be on the line day hours. So there's no shame in that. So here's, yeah, John's right. This is not about numbers. And here's the transition. When you're in baby steps one through three, you're intense and you work nights and overtime and you live on beans and rice until you get out of debt. When you're in four, five, and six where you're saving for retirement, kids, college, and you're paying off your house, you move from intense to intentional. And that's all I'm doing.

1:39:34Dave Ramsey:I'm agreeing with you to move to intentional. all. Intentional says you can live on 70 grand less, slows down the speed at which we pay off the house. Whoop-dee-doop-dee, you're going to get there. Yep. And that's what I'm telling him. I'm like, we can do it. Yeah. But I want him to grow up enough to look at the numbers and like a grown up and go, oh, the math does work. Not my mommy told me it was okay if I come home. Yep. But it's different than his mommy. It's his wife saying, no, no, I want you to come home. yeah yeah that's a totally different and i think it's just getting past that provider and he is a provider of him where he's been at for 38 and his 401k it's not that it's not that it's not that touchdown it's not about money it's not about money you did it you scored we did it we did it yeah yeah we did it we got there we're scored and look at the numbers buddy listen you can yeah you did it we together did it you sacrificed to do it look at the numbers Be a grown up.

1:40:33Dave Ramsey:Go, oh, the numbers say I'm okay. That's what the numbers say. My wife says it's okay, but the numbers also. As a grown man, I can look at the numbers and say, the numbers say it's okay. It's not rocket surgery. No. And also, after a decade, if you're a night shift guy, that becomes who you are. It becomes your identity. It becomes your gang. And so he's going to have to shift his identity. I'm now a guy who works his butt off during the day, and then I go home and I'm a present dad. and I get to tickle fight in the floor. Hello. Exactly. Hello. Thank you. Thank you, Lord. It's a good thing. Yeah, man.

1:41:07Dave Ramsey:Y 'all worked real hard for this moment. Definitely needs to do it as soon as possible. But you've got to believe it with the numbers and with the people that love you speaking into your life and speaking blessings over you. And that's what John's talking about. So that's the way you do it. Joe's with us. Joe's in Detroit. Hi, Joe. What's up? Hi, Dave. Hi, guys. I really appreciate your phone call. Sure. How can we help? I have a question about my mortgage. So I own about$55 ,000 on my mortgage right now. And I have about$70 ,000 in a high-yield fund right now. Cool. Pay it off today. Pay it off right now.

1:41:52Dave Ramsey:You have a paid-for house, homie. That's so fun. See, that's what I'm – okay, so my financial advisor – So I'm making about 5.4 % on my fund right now. And my mortgage interest rate is only like three and a quarter. Hey, you need a new financial advisor. Your financial advisor is a moron. Because he's making 3 % on the spread, too. He's not making anything. Nobody's making anything. This is 5%. Hey, dude, look at this. $55 ,000 times 2 % is$1 ,000.

1:42:32Dave Ramsey:whoopty dupty you can't buy a biscuit with this guy's advice well yeah yeah for the last like four or five months i've been putting an extra thousand dollars on my mortgage today hey hey what are you doing listen if your house was paid for would you go get a mortgage at three percent to invest it at five i hope not i know Pay it off today and fire your guy, man. Get you a guy who's got a brain. Yeah, bro. Pay it off. Jeez, man. If you hate it, if you wake up two months from now and you're like, Ramsey was nuts. I hate not owing anybody on my house. I hate my mortgage. I miss my mortgage. You can go down to a local bank and take out a loan.

1:43:16They'll give you another one. They'll hook you up. They'll fix you up.

1:43:19Dave Ramsey:30 years of doing this, I've never had anybody call me and go, Dave Ramsey, I hate you because when I paid off my mortgage, I was miserable. I wanted one so bad. I wanted a mortgage so bad. Your advice is so horrible. I went and got another one. I've never had that one time. I've had people pissed at me for almost everything, but not that one.

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1:44:53Dave Ramsey:In the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on the debt-free stage, Jennifer's with us. Hi, Jennifer, how are you? Hi, good. How are you? Better than I deserve. Welcome. How much debt have you paid? $205 ,000. Awesome. Where are you from? From Milford, Connecticut. Okay, cool. And how long did it take you to pay off$205 ,000? When I got focused, it was five years and six months. Five years. Very cool. That's amazing. And what was your range of income during that five years? Started out around 78 and ended around 165. Cool. What do you do for a living? I work in the aerospace industry. Doing what? So I'm in the business management side.

1:45:33Ah, okay. You know, basically.

1:45:34Dave Ramsey:So you manage rocket scientists? Yeah. Yeah, okay. That's good. It's fun. Is that stressful? Somebody's got to do it. It would be tough. Somebody's got to do it. Like brain surgeons. Yeah, it is. I have to hold people accountable. Yeah. Who know way too much. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. Well, and if you know how to build a rocket, I assume you just assume you know how to do everything else on the planet also, right? Sure. So what kind of debt was the$205 ,000? A little under$15 ,000 for student loans, and the rest was my mortgage. Yeah! Yeah! You're a weirdo! A paid-off house! Yes. Boom! What's this house worth, girl?

1:46:06Right now, it's worth about$415 ,000.

1:46:09Dave Ramsey:Very cool. And how much in your nest egg in your retirement? Just shy of$300 ,000. All right. Heading towards millionaire. millionaire almost baby steps millionaire so uh how old are you i'm 45 all right way to go congrats excellent you rocked it very very cool all right tell me the story because you you're all put together you hang out with rocket scientists and and but you decide we're going to go game on five years we're knocking out mortgage and everything how'd you get connected to ramsey tell me how this all worked out um so i got connected the first time in about 2005 That's when I gave my life to the Lord and heard about it through my church.

1:46:47Wow. And I gave my life to the Lord and immediately went into like a Job season. Oh. Yeah. Like every time you think it can't get worse, it got worse. Oh, my gosh. And, you know, there wasn't any irresponsibility or sin or anything like that. It was just life happening.

1:47:03Dave Ramsey:Tragedy after tragedy. Yeah. It was really intense. And my pastors gifted me a scholarship to go through FPU. Oh, wow. Um, but I literally had nothing to work with. So it was like information and I'm a total nerd. So it was always there, but I literally had nothing to work with. And, um, then basically in 2015, I was starting to kind of dig back out of the hole by the grace of God. And I, uh, got this job offer to move from Kansas city to Connecticut. And I'm like, heck yeah, I'm, I'm going to make the move. This is a great opportunity. So when I got to Connecticut and I had a real income, which was fabulous, I started remembering, hey, FPU, I've got to get back with that.

1:47:54So I went through a course again. And then I started building an estate because when I went through this season, I lost everything. Literally, negative net worth. I should have been on the upward trajectory of life. I'm a single woman by design. I don't have children. I don't ever plan on getting married. And so when you're by yourself and you lose everything, it's very, it can be very burdensome.

1:48:22Dave Ramsey:That's an understatement. How about terror? That's a scary place to be. Terrorizing. Yeah, it was. There's no safety net. There's no support mechanism. I mean, I was staring homelessness in the face. It was very real. So when I started rebuilding, my instinct was to save everything. Yeah, yeah. That's a good instinct. I bought a house. The Lord literally tucked it away from me. It's a beautiful, original Victorian. It's like a life-size dollhouse. and I knew I had about a five-year window before I needed to do some major repairs and upkeep. And I was saving away, had a nice big fat nest egg for that, and was continuing to just pay minimums.

1:49:11And then I was entering into my, just before my 40th birthday, and the Lord just really convicted me. And he's like, you've got money in your account to get rid of those student loans today. And I'm like, okay. So for me, that was a huge leap of faith because when you have nothing and then all of a sudden you have something, giving it away feels like the rug's going to get pulled out again. But I trusted him and I did it. And then I started, you know, saving again. It just astounded me how quickly it came back. Then I was, you know, working on the different repairs for the house, saving up that fund, and got to last summer.

1:49:55And construction prices were just through the roof. They were ridiculous, wanting$60 ,000,$70 ,000 to rebuild a porch, or$100 ,000 for 18 windows. It was ridiculous. And I felt like I wasn't making progress. So I asked the Lord, I'm like, what do I do? Like, I've got all this money saved. And he said, pay off the house in one year. And my jaw dropped on the floor, because at that time, my mortgage balance was about$145 ,000. I pulled$72 ,000 out of my nest egg, slapped it on the balance. And then every penny that was going to my floating fund, I, or I'm sorry, my sinking fund, I put it on, I put it on the mortgage and it was gone in nine months.

1:50:37Dave Ramsey:How's it feel? Surreal, amazing. Like I live on$600 a month. It's stupid. It's ridiculous. And I just rebuilt my porch, which was a huge project. Paid cash for that. Oh, yeah, I paid cash for that. I'm getting ready to do the siding and the windows. I got a contractor that's so reasonable. And when you're standing there with cash and you don't have to do anything, their reasonableness changes. Yes. Yeah. Yeah, they can tell. Yeah. Wow. What an adventure, dude. Congratulations. You have developed through this journey a backbone of steel. I mean, we can just feel the strength emanating off of you, not only from your faith, but just the journey has toughened you.

1:51:26Dave Ramsey:And so there's nothing comes at you. You're ready. I'm ready. Yeah, there's. It's pretty cool. Yeah, there's nothing. There's nothing that can really. We get these calls about once every two weeks with someone who's on the edge of homelessness and hopelessness. Talk to them for a second. I was there. I'll never forget the day sitting on the steps of my house going, what's the safest parking lot that I could sleep in? my my first home was taken um when all of the um the big three mortgage companies were erroneously foreclosing they erroneously foreclosed on my house and i just had major surgery and i had 10 days it just big orange sticker on my house you don't own this anymore and i didn't even know that they were taking my house i was current wow um but it was done and the only thing that I knew was I was about a two-year-old Christian.

1:52:31I knew that my, you know, what I'd learned is that, you know, the Lord is my provider. He can bring me through and my precious pastors told me, you will see the goodness of the Lord in the land of the living. This is not the end of the story. And I hung on to that. I genuinely did every day.

1:52:54Dave Ramsey:That's a word right there. And it came true, too. Yeah, it really did. So we know that was the word. Yeah. So I just one little miracle at a time. Things came together. I was not homeless. I always had somewhere safe to sleep. And it was a couple years. Don't depend on the savings account. depend on me pay off the student loans yeah don't depend on the savings account yep pay off the house depend on me yes depend on me yes depend on me you've had a steady message yeah for that's a decade isn't it yeah or more it's 15 years well yeah yeah 15 years yeah wow yeah what a walk yeah and and during it i mean it the journey just from you know five six years ago i had major surgery on my back you know 27 staples up my low back and oh i shouldn't have said backbone of steel should i no i'm literally like literally you do who knew i'm playing yeah be careful with that okay yeah wow proud of you way to go crazy yeah yeah you are wonder woman for sure i'm so proud of you thanks all right jennifer from milford connecticut like no other 205 000 paid off house and everything in five years, making $78 to$165 from homeless to there.

1:54:06Dave Ramsey:Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream. Three, two, and one. I am debt-free! Yeah! So amazing. Yeah! Wow! Ah, man. I'm getting soft in my old age, Dave. These keep getting... I've been soft in my old age. I cried in Applebee's commercial.

1:54:51Dave Ramsey:Our scripture of the day, Colossians 4, 6. Let your conversation be always full of grace, seasoned with salt, so that you may know how to answer everyone. Thomas Sowell said, we all enter the world knowing nothing, but by the time we're teenagers, we know it all. Sometimes it takes decades later before we know enough to realize how little we know. Chris is in Memphis. Hey, Chris, how are you? I am doing good, Dave. Thanks for taking my call. Absolutely. How can we help? My wife and I are in baby step six, and I'm transitioning from intensity to intentionality. Good. And now I want to sign up for a country club membership at the club where I grew up playing golf with my dad and my brother every weekend because I want to give that same experience to my son who's four and a half right now.

1:55:43And the only thing holding me back is I think, would Dave say go do it or would he say it was stupid? And then I thought, why can't you call him and ask him? Okay. When has Dave Ramsey ever called anybody? Never mind. Never mind.

1:55:58Dave Ramsey:So, Chris, how much is the do, or the initiation, and how much are the dues? The initiation is$5 ,000. The dues are$5 ,50 a month plus$85 for food and baths. I'm currently spending about$3 ,000 a month. $5 ,000? For the initiation, yeah. That's all? Yeah. Oh, I thought that was a whole bunch of money. I was going to say, get a Zilco and take a fish in. There's plenty of country clubs and golf clubs that are half a million. $250 ,000. Plenty of them. Nobody's angry. We've got the lowest cost of living around. That's good. Okay, so$5 ,000 and$500 a month, and what's your household income? About$120 ,000.

1:56:41Dave Ramsey:Okay. And you're obviously putting 15 % away for retirement, and you're working on a budget with your wife and you're in agreement. Right. And what is her opinion of this purchase? I told her, hey, I want to sign up with this country club. What do you think? And instead of asking me any questions, she just said, yeah, if you want to, go ahead and do it. I think over the last 11 years of our marriage, I think I've just built up a level of trust with her in handling our finances that she didn't even ask. So she didn't even ask how much it was like I did? No, but I went ahead and told her anyway.

1:57:20but she greenlit it before I told her.

1:57:24Dave Ramsey:She needs to be careful. It could have been a half a million. Okay. But you wouldn't have brought it to her because you're trustworthy. Okay. Anyway, well, I've got wife agreement. I have money. It's within the budget. It's something you desire to do. I think people at your stage buy$5 ,000 couches or$15 ,000 cars or go on$5 ,000 cruises or$10 ,000 cruises, don't they? And that fits in our plan. That's part of being intentional in baby steps four through six. While you're hitting your other goals, you just save the money to do that, and you're pulling$5.50 a month out, including your F &B. But it checks all the boxes.

1:58:16Dave Ramsey:I would do it. okay cool no it's not stupid um what you're doing is you're thinking through does this affect my life do i does it prevent me from hitting other goals that are more important than this goal the answer is no because it's a small amount of money in ratio to your income in your situation does that make sense yeah yeah it's just when i say it out loud to people and i'm thinking about doing it all I can hear myself saying is I want to buy a boat you know so it just sounds silly when I say it out loud because you know I just went through all the other baby steps and we were super intense and now well you were intense so you live like no one else so later you can live and give like no one else yeah that's why you did that and so that's moving from intense to intentional you you had the right verbiage when you started the call I um it just it feels weird because you sacrificed to get here, and then the first time you actually draw back and enjoy a little of it or the first time you draw back and have a sizable generosity move, like if you gave away$5 ,000, you'll have that same emotion.

1:59:27Dave Ramsey:Like, it kind of feels weird. Like, am I going to be okay if I do this? That kind of emotion. And that's because it's a muscle you've not been used to using. You've been using the frugality muscle only, not the generosity or enjoyment muscle. And it's new. And it takes a little time to get there. I think you do it, though. Kate's in California. Hey, Kate, what's up? Hi. Thank you for taking my call. Sure. How can we help? um so my question is regarding well basically it boils down to at what point do my husband and i call it quits on a business venture how long you've been doing it uh about five or six years wow is that your full-time gig um no so let me give you a little backstory.

2:00:18My husband is a creator. He's a writer and a comic book artist, and he's been working on some intellectual properties that he wants to either self-publish or sell to like a large company and sort of break his way into the entertainment industry, basically. um when he first started doing this i i told him that i would not feel comfortable paying for this or funding it with our household income i said you know i'll support you in doing this and trying this but um you're gonna have to go do a side gig or something to to fund it he's been he's been paying artists to create these artworks for him basically um so it's been about five years of him doing gig work, like working, you know.

2:01:13Dave Ramsey:So he's invested a ton in it and has made no money. Correct. So this is not a business. This is a hobby. Businesses have a profit. Businesses have profit. Right. And that's kind of my attitude about it. That's not an attitude. That's a fact. It's a fact. Yeah. Right. His hobby is imagining a thing and then hiring an artist to make that thing come alive. But he's made no money with it. Correct. And he's just crossed a threshold where somebody can sneeze and a computer can just do it now for you. Right. I mean, there's a lot of things about it that are becoming frustrating to me. Like what? But, well, it's just we have four kids.

2:02:04I'm the primary breadwinner in our household. Okay, it's not becoming frustrating. He is becoming frustrating. He's been frustrating a long time, and you're entering into resentment. Yes. And you need to put that conversation on the table, clear as kind. The best way you can love him right now is to put all that on the table. Yeah. Because he's choosing a hobby and part-time gigs over five years over his wife and kids and their stability. It's not even like he's an actor and he keeps getting gigs and he's getting more and he's pushing it. That's not even happening here.

2:02:44Dave Ramsey:This has been 100 % outlay. No income. None. Right. Right. And it's yeah. And he's you know, but I have to say I do. I'm a creative person myself. And so it has nothing to do with being a creative. It has to do with being a responsible adult. Creatives can be responsible adults. Dave and I are both creatives. But when you make humans, you're you're you also are creative when you're a parent. And that's where the bulk of your energy goes. You get you get to take care of your family. I get to be creative only after my wife and kids have been served. yeah or i get to be creative in a way that makes a profit so that my wife and kids are served right like writing a best-selling book that would be a creative thing but the sell but the book sold a million copies hello so there's that and that's the thing you got it you know or i do creative stuff i play music i so we can't just you you're trying to be sweet to his dreamer self but here's the thing.

2:03:45Dave Ramsey:We love people who dream. We don't love people who live in them. You need to do something with the dream. Leave the cave, kill something, and drag it home. So my daughters were teenagers. If they came in and said, Daddy, he's the nicest guy. He's a dreamer. I'm thinking, oh God, they're going to live in my basement. Okay? So you don't want to live people that live in their dreams. We want people who execute out of the dream and turn it into a vision, a goal, a strategy, an implementation that makes money. We have to feed our family. So yeah, you guys got some marriage work to do. Yes, he needs to close the hobby down because it's frustrating his wife to the point she's calling us.

2:04:33Dave Ramsey:That puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.