Progress Requires Discipline

28:16He doesn't want one. He doesn't want one, Sam. Not, not bad enough. No, no. I worry. I actually worry for you, Sam, that if you keep meddling in this, it's going to cause resentment towards your dad because you're inserting behaviors that you want him to do. He's not doing them. And then you're going to walk away from this pissed at your mom and pissed at your dad. So I would love for you to take John's advice, which is, hey, I'm going to remove myself from this triangle of drama. I'm going to take myself out of it. And I'm just going to be the adult. And I'm going to say, this is between you guys.

28:54I love you both. I hope you work it out and you're going to tell your little brother, hey, man, if you just need to get away from this, come to my house. I'll come pick you up. And I really do think, I mean, those are the steps that I would take. What would you do, John? Exactly that. And Sam, this is one more complicating thing. I'm not going to ask you this because I don't want to put you on the spot. OK, I would have a hard time if I was you in your situation, not also looking at that million dollar inheritance. thinking some of that should distill down to me someday. And I don't want my mom to get any of it because of what she's done to the family.

29:32You have to back yourself out of that too. That's his money. She's already excluded for sure. Do what? She's already excluded for sure because they filed for divorce before either of his parents passed away. So we've already worked out with the lawyer. Yeah, but dad might just write her a big old check. Yeah, he can still do that. Because it's his money. I honestly that's what I was kind of pushing him to do at first was to just buy her out of the house and be done because she wants to stay in the house but she doesn't have the money to refinance so that's why we're just kind of stuck I mean they are kind of stuck in the middle right now there you go that's good they are that's begin to change your language they are my dad is choosing to allow these things to continue you're right 100 and that can break your in there's an old proverb and it's not out of the Bible, but it's an ancient proverb that says, I finally sat down and confronted my anger and she took off her mask and revealed herself as grief.

30:29I'm sad that my mom blew up our family. I'm sad that she's taking, like trying to take dad for everything. I'm sad that my dad has just curled up in a ball. I'm sad that my 12 year old little brother's living in all of this mess. I'm just heartbroken by all of it and I'm out of the triangulation game I'm out of the I'm not saying we anymore I'm saying that's my dad that's my mom that's the choices they're making and as for me and my household here's who we are going to be because that's what you can control man yeah your job is to get out of that and tell both your parents and to whatever degree is honest I'm on both your sides or mom I'm not on your side at all please don't talk to me about this Yeah, but I'm not having this conversation with you anymore.

31:15Yep. You know where I stand on it. We're rooting for you, Sam. We believe in you. You can do this, bud.

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33:09well you may have noticed that a lot of the advice we give is based on a proven plan here our ramsey plan it's based on seven baby steps that you probably have heard us walk through on the show and we do that because we know that that is the turning point for a lot of people they're looking for an easy way to really get control of their life and their money and we found that the baby steps have worked for over 30 years. So if you're new to the Ramsey show, every answer you hear is going to be rooted in those seven steps. So take a few minutes to learn that plan and you'll get a whole lot more out of every episode.

33:41All right, let's go to Nick, who's in Cincinnati, Ohio. Hey, Nick. Hi, guys. How are you doing? Doing great. How are you? I'm doing fantastic. It's great to be on. All right. Let us know what's going on. How can we help? Yeah. Yeah, Thanks. So my question is pretty simple. So how much is it okay to spend on a house based on the home's value in terms of like remodeling, updating, stuff like that? I love that question. So tell us a little bit about the home. Tell us what it's worth, like what's the equity in it and tell us what you want to do to it. Yeah. So we are on baby step seven, which is a huge blessing.

34:22And it's about, I mean, probably as it is, it might be a little bit less, but we'll just say 200 ,000 to make it easy. Did you say 280 ,000? No, 200 ,000. Oh, 200 ,000. Thank you. Yes, ma 'am. Yeah. And then we're under contract for about 27 ,000 to add a bathroom and update the electrical box. But I could probably easily spend another 60 updating things that need to like a sidewalk that needs to be updated, as well as some other things to make some space to make the basement more livable. Okay. So you could see putting a total of 90 ,000 into this house between the bathroom and the other upgrades?

35:02Yeah. I mean, potentially, yes. Okay. It sounds like you named off some of them. We got bathroom, we've got basement upgrades. These are the types of things that my guess would be if you were looking to sell it, they're upgrades that people are going to want to see in your neighborhood. So there's part of it that you could speak to a realtor, you could, you know, look at one of our comps. Yeah. And just see in our area, what are people paying for? Do they want the upgraded bathroom? Do they care that the basement isn't finished and kind of get some numbers on that. But aside from the numbers, I, I tend to be along the lines of if you're in this house and you can afford it and you want the house to be the way that you like it to a reasonable extent I think you can say if I don't get every single penny out of this I think I might be okay for instance if you were saying I want to put a pool in the house you might not get that money back but if your family really wants and enjoys the pool and you're okay to Dave's point of taking that money and kind of burning it in the middle of the yard yeah it's okay right yeah and i'm not we're not millionaires yet like we hope to be i think it's just i was looking at some like my own comps like i know a house very similar to ours that had an upgraded basement sold for about 240 but that might be the ceiling of the street so it's like if we do spend about 90 000 i bet we probably have about 40 000 that we are putting in the middle of the living room and watching burn so it doesn't always feel like that might be the best best way so i'm not sure I will tell you, I did a mix of what Jade and you just said.

36:41I just did a whole bunch of work at my house. I started back in May. In fact, I just today got a text from Winston saying it's finally finished. And I had comps pulled. So I had a Ramsey trusted real estate person that I work with all the time. She pulled the comps just so I could make sure I'm not going bananas. And then me and my wife sat down and we put what we wanted into this place because we want this place to be our place for a long time. Even if it doesn't ROI. Because we want to have people out there. And my wife is an avid, avid gardener. And so I wanted her to have the best gardening space on the planet.

37:18And so some of it, it may not ROI. And at this point, I don't care because I didn't go bananas. I did have like I wasn't just going in there blind. I did have comps. and I have a different situation because out in the woods where I live, a couple of people have sold their places and people have put compounds back there. And so I had a lot of room to play with, but I didn't look after that. I was more interested in what kind of life to me and my wife want to have. And because of the last 20 years worth of financial sacrifices, we're at this point now where we can have that conversation. But I probably would not put 200, I probably wouldn't burn$50 ,000 on a$240 ,000 house.

38:01And so if you say, I really want a basement because we like to have people over and we, that's, I need to, I need some space. I need a bathroom because grandma's always staying with us and my parents are going to move in with us. That's money well spent. And it may be, you're always just going to look at that dumb sidewalk and it's going to drive you crazy. But, or you might look at the house and say, okay, I'm looking$27 ,000 bathroom, that makes sense. But when I really start adding up all the things that I think would make this house the house we like, you guys might decide maybe you need a different house.

38:32Because I don't want to, to Jade and John's point, I don't want to burn$70 ,000 in my living room. I want to take that money and put it towards another house that I'd get the equity in. Yeah, and that's really the rub. I think it comes down to either putting money into this house are upgrading so we have three kids and we're very tight and so i think um when we look at getting another house and we start looking at the prices it's like if we really want to get something that's better that's going to have the things that we want we're looking at 400 000 and so at least right now it we would have to get a mortgage and i think going back it would feel like we're going backwards and it's like okay well it well not necessarily here because you've got You got the$200 ,000 already, give or take, obviously, fees and everything if you were to sell the house.

39:20And you were ready to put$90 ,000 into this house. So you're a quarter of the way there. You're three quarters of the way there. Oh, that is true. You're right there. So what if you said, hey, this year, instead of doing these rentals that we thought we were going to do all year, let's just stack up as much cash as we can. And by the way, I'm assuming you already had the$87 ,000 ready to go. If you didn't and you thought you were just going to save it in cash flow as you went, that does change it slightly. But even if you took two years and said, we're just going to stack up a bunch of money and do this move, you could.

39:55And if you took a small mortgage, it wouldn't be the end of the road. You could totally do that. But you were about to spend – I mean you're about to have a total in of$290 on this house. I'm sorry,$290 on this house. uh well it'd be yeah so it's 200 now and i'd probably spend about 90 to get everything done so so you're three quarters there to a 400 000 house just some things to think about i think you and your wife have more conversations to have and i don't think you're in a rush but there is something to be said i mean it was your initial question which is how much over do you want to go if you kind of know hey the the neighborhood's topping out at 240 250 if you're building this house up to 300 i don't know you said you're not baby steps millionaires yet 50 000 to burn is a lot of money a ton of money and i i don't know because i i don't know your situation but it does sound like it might be time to look for a house where you're not so tight and it doesn't require as much non ro wide money to make it what you want it to be but i will also shout you out for a bathroom improvement, a new electrical box, a finished basement, those are all, generally speaking, high ROI things you can do to a house.

41:16It's not like you're carving ornate owls in the columns in the front of the house. You know what I mean? So like the things you're doing are wise, like a sidewalk that people don't trip on. All the stuff you're saying is wise. It's just, if you're a neighborhood, if you're a captain of that neighborhood, man, just make a wise choice there. And once you get to that baby step seven situation and you want to, like Jade said, you can put a pool back there, enjoy a pool, man. That's just a choice y 'all are going to make. Go ahead. I said, why not? Yeah. Why not? Exactly. Well, definitely, if you haven't already, you can check out one of our Ramsey real estate pros.

41:55Just give them a call and say, hey, here's what I'm thinking. They can give you comps in your area. And really for anybody who's thinking about getting into the market, make sure you check out our real estate hub. You can find out so much there. Median list prices, total homes for sale on the market in your area. And you can even plug in your specific area, type it in, and it'll let you know what's going on. So that's a really, really, really great value. All right, John, I love a question from the interweb. I love a question. What did you say to me? Sure. I'm going to zander up. Yeah. Let's go for it.

42:28what are you asking me to do, Kelly? Y 'all don't know. Kelly, the producer, will be in my ear, and I'm like, what do you, Kelly, what is it that you want from me? She's like, John's making a weird face again. I know. I was going to read a question from the community, but we don't have time to do that. We'll do that on the next break.

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44:16Welcome back to The Ramsey Show here in the Fair Ones Credit Union Studio. Back to the phone lines we go. I'm Jade. This is Dr. John. And we've got Ben in Shreve Point, Louisiana. Hey, Ben. How can we help today? Hey, thanks for taking my call. You bet. How can we help? Yeah. So I am just wanting some advice on whether or not I should essentially take away access to spending for my wife. because of her self-described spending problems. What do the spending problems look like? Explain that a little bit more. Yeah, so just spending a lot of money on hobbies and clothing and things that are pretty, you know, iffy on whether or not we really need them.

45:22Do you guys budget together? Do you create a budget together? We try. We, you know, don't keep up with it extremely well, but we try to. Okay. If we're not keeping up with the budget, how do we know that she's spending too much? well we have we've given essentially we give each other an allowance each month okay and we're supposed to be keeping track of you know how much we spend on you know quote unquote fun money and you know she pretty frequently goes over that limit and you know when when she runs out You know, she will just kind of use our, you know, we kind of have a separate account that we use for that specifically.

46:11But she, if she runs out, she'll just kind of go to our regular bank account and use that instead. And so she's just kind of doing that month after month. And how much are we saying? Like, once she spends the money in the fun money account, and then she goes to your normal checking account, how much is she pulling from that normal checking account? Give us some dollar amounts. I mean, it changes a good bit from month to month, but I would say, you know, a few hundred dollars a month. Like$200,$200 or$300 over? Yeah. Okay. And what do you guys bring at home every single month between the two of you?

46:53Income-wise? Total is probably$4 ,500. Okay. Okay. So has she asked you for help? Well, yeah. She has specifically told me that she wants me to stop her from doing that, you know, to take away debit cards and take away her access to that. And I'm really resistant to that idea. Yeah, good. It's her setting you up as the bad guy in her story. Because she's still going to want to go buy it. So I have a personal situation where I needed to practice staying on a budget. And so I handed my wife my debit card and I had her change the Amazon Prime account. So I couldn't have it. But that was me going to her, not to make her the bad guy, but to say, dude, I got to start lifting weights on my own.

47:56But she told me, she didn't feel comfortable doing it. But for a season, fine. The way you frame the question, should I take my wife's credit, like her debit cards from her, I would say no. Accountability is different from control. Exactly. You're not her dad. And if you need to, because you guys bring home$4 ,500 bucks and she's blowing through two or three hundred extra dollars that's a lot that's a lot of money you might need to go open your own checking account for the safety of your home similar to if she had a she was struggling with alcohol or she was struggling with gambling we always tell folks you at some point you have to make sure you're taking control of the home or it could be as simple as y 'all just aren't being honest about fund money and if you need to prioritize 200 more dollars then prioritize 200 more dollars but if you know if you if you were to increase her spending money by the way i would not call it allowance that again that's very like parent child language but like her fun money if you were to increase it by 200 bucks and she was gonna she'll go over that by 200 or 300 then you got a problem yeah i just don't like her setting you up as the bad guy or as or as the person who if it all goes bad it's on it's on him right instead of on her i wonder what it would look like to john's point if you said okay what if we tried deleting the apps from your phone, right?

49:22If she's a person, if she's an online shopper, let's delete the apps from your phone. Let's start there. And we're not gonna do Amazon apps. We're not gonna do Macy's app, none of that. Or if she's a person who she says, hey, I'm just running out to pick up the dry cleaning. And while she's out, she goes to Target, she goes to this or that, right? Are there things that you can put in place to help each other? Because I do think there's a level of accountability that spouses can have with one another. Like, you know, for me in social media, I'll tell my husband, hey, if you happen to just see me scrolling on my phone, like.

49:51Come grab the phone. Come grab it from me. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I think that that's a fair, do you see what I'm saying? I think there's a fair amount of play here. But also what you said earlier is what I want to go back to, which is I don't think that the budget is actually as strong and as much of a guiding principle for you guys as maybe you think it is. Because when I asked, it was kind of like, yeah, we kind of have one. We kind of stick to it. We kind of don't. And if I'm in a situation where it's like, oh, we kind of stick to this, we kind of don't, well, then I'm kind of not this month, right?

50:23Whereas if you guys sit down and say, you know what? We've been lackadaisical in every area with our budget. And I think we together just need to start being way more intentional. We've done it with going out to eat. We've done it with clothing. We've done it with hobbies. We've done it with entertainment. We just need to pull the strings tighter. That's a conversation. Now we're both contributing and maybe we're both. Is that fair or did I misread it? No, that's pretty fair. I guess what I'm most afraid of is, you know, if we do try to be more, you know, way, way more disciplined, And what I'm afraid of and kind of what I've had experience with in similar sorts of like similar situations is that I'm afraid that she's just going to find alternative ways to satisfy that.

51:19Okay, then you need to get to – you've got a way bigger fracture in your marriage than debit card spending.

51:32because it you've got somebody who is actively fighting against the vision y 'all are supposed to be co-creating together and that could that could be because she's struggling with mental and emotional challenges she needs to go see somebody or it could just be that she's a jerk completely undisciplined and just kind of a brat i'm gonna go with option one i want to give everybody the benefit of the doubt and say, man, she's just got, she's struggling. And when things get big, when her emotions get big, when she gets scared, whatever, feel anxious, whatever, swiping that card makes it go away for a minute.

52:05The same as I might go grab a cheeseburger or somebody else might go grab a drink. Um, somebody else may go place a bet and yeah, then you need people who love you enough to stand in that gap with you and also hold you accountable. But if you decided we're going to be really intentional together and your biggest fear there is that she's going to go around that system and figure out another way to blow things up, that's where you got to start with the relationship that you all have with your marriage because it's in a much more precarious spot than just a debit card spending issue.

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54:24Well, everyone needs insurance, but it can be hard trying to find pros who aren't just looking to make a buck and agents who know their stuff. Luckily, our Ramsey trusted insurance pros are vetted and coached to make sure they're market experts who have your best interest at heart. Go to RamseySolutions.com slash coverage to find the type of insurance you're looking for and connect with a Ramsey trusted agent. All righty. Jan is in Greenville, South Carolina. Hi, Jan. How can we help today? Hi, thank you for taking my call. You bet. I was wanting to know. So my husband and I are 28 and 29 and we have one little boy and we're expecting another one on the way.

55:08Well, we thank you. We are in a strong position to buy a new home. And with the current market in our area, there's not a whole lot of movement on the market. And so we have an opportunity with our funds by following y 'all's plan that we can really move on a house that we want to live in. we would love to have up to four children, but our hesitation here is, are we a little bit too quick to purchase a forever home being this young, or do we really need to be looking at a shorter term home than that? What do you mean when you say forever home? It's a very hard, it's a very hard prediction to make that you will be in the same place.

55:57I'm on forever home number six. Yeah. What gives you, what gives you that confidence, Jan? I think is going ahead and buying the house and the space for all four kids. And then also buying it in the location that really sets us up to have access to any opportunities around us. So my husband works a job where he could possibly move jobs. So we sit in a location where he can access two, strong cities. But in order to do that, we're going to spend a little bit more money. Now, I think what you're saying, if you are framing it like that, I actually think that's a smart way to think about making a home purchase.

56:41Obviously, location matters most when you're buying a home. And yes, you want to buy the space that you need if you can afford it and looking towards the future when you have growing kids. I do think that that's a smart thing. I think what I would guard against is when you say forever home, you can start to justify things that you don't really need by saying, well, eventually, well, when the kids get to college and when they get married and you're going so, so far into time that we really don't even know. But it doesn't sound like you're doing that. I would just caution against that. Does that make sense?

57:17Oh, yes, absolutely. So that being said, what do you guys have to spend and what are the houses in the area that you're looking for, what do they cost? So the cost that we're looking at is probably around the$600 to$750 range. We have a completely paid for house that's worth about$300 ,000. And then we have a household income of just under$300 ,000. And then my husband also, it was just announced that a payout in his company, he owns some shares in his company, and a payout will be coming hopefully within the next year or two. And what will that be? We anticipate probably around$250 ,000. That's a conservative amount that we're estimating.

58:06And tell me again when you would get that at the end of the year? Most likely by the end of next year, but it could be up to two years, depending on how long the process takes. Okay. So is there any part of this where you're like, let's wait and do this thing in cash? oh he would probably say so that's what i'm thinking you have two young kids you have you have one kid one on the way yes you'll have a house and it's paid for it's worth 300 000 300 grand and and listen we jade and i would only have jobs if the things that people were told and their plans worked out right and so i cannot tell you how much both of us want you to get a check for$350 ,000 on this, on this payout.

58:53And the number of people who are promised that kind of thing and then get a check for 42 ,000 because the market has done something weird or something happened or we're, we decided to recapitalize blah, blah, blah. And now suddenly you're sitting with a 750 and y 'all went ahead and went 790 cause it's our forever home. Now you find yourself in a totally different picture. Oh yeah. But I would love for y 'all to, to stack cash and you're sitting on$200 ,000 in cash and then you get a check for$350 ,000 and then you sell your$300 ,000 house, you can buy anything. Now, don't get me wrong. What John said, I love that.

59:38That'd probably be my first thought is, is there a way to do this in cash? But in all fairness, if you found a house that was$700, you sold your$300 ,000 and then you put do you have any other cash saving that you would go put with this?

59:57We probably use probably no more than maybe$100 ,000 of cash savings? Well they're in the market but I would I would think that we would liquidate it and put it towards there. Now this is not retirement it. This is an attack. So let's say, is it fair to say you'd put 400 ,000 down on this$700 ,000 house? Absolutely. Yeah. Okay. So in all fairness, if you did that, and I'm just using the Ramsey Solutions investment calculator, you'd be well within your range to do this. I mean, you guys bring home 19 ,000 bucks a month or around that, and this would put your mortgage somewhere around 3 ,500 bucks a month, right?

1:00:38Like no problem. You could totally do that. There's no shame in that game. I'm rooting for you. We just want to lay out both options because everything we do here is about getting people to that shortest path to peace. And so if it feels more peaceful to you to go, you know what? Maybe if we wait one or two years, we could do this deal in cash. I like the feeling of that. Or you could go, you want to know what? We are busting at the seams in this current house. It is not worth it to me. We've sacrificed enough. I'm ready to do this deal now. It's a small piece of our world to have this mortgage.

1:01:07And then on down the line, we'll just pay it off super fast. That's also fine. Either of these ways, Jan, are totally fine and totally doable for you. Can I throw some spaghetti at the wall and see if it sticks? Yes. Have you ever wrestled with being anxious in the past? Yes.

1:01:30This is the pot talking to the kettle here, okay? Okay. You and I both have a tendency, which unfortunately serves us well sometimes, and unfortunately is really hard on our spouses, on our friends and family, and on us. And that is to look into the future, anticipate any number of potential catastrophes, and then try to drag them into the present and solve them today, right now. We got to solve it right now. Oh, is that fair? Yes, absolutely. Here's what, like, I want, this is, this is just, I know this is easier said than done. I want you, how far along are you pregnant? Pregnancy-wise? Seven months.

1:02:18How many? Oh, seven months. Seven months. Okay. Will you make me and Jade in America promise that you will practice over the next, just say six months?

1:02:34take all the anxieties of what might happen what where college your newborn's going to go to and what's the state of ai and your job and we're in this city just keep a journal and call it um the june of 2027 solutions journal and i'm just gonna start writing down all the things i'm worrying about get them out of my body out of my head put them on a piece of paper and i'm gonna to enjoy the bloody heck out of this knuckleheaded little baby that we just just brought into the world i'm gonna enjoy this husband who's kind of clueless now that he's got two babies in the house now and he's making a great salary i'm gonna enjoy my other toddler i'm just going to practice exhaling is that fair yes y 'all are such in such a great position y 'all can kind of do what you want to do.

1:03:24And it sounds like you're being so wise about it. Jade, I'm the worst. I'm the worst at trying to solve 20 year problems from now. We were just talking about in the break. Yeah, I think I'm going to end this like, I mean, with homes for sure. When people start talking about forever homes, I get a little bit nervous because it does give you permission to go off the rails. And that's the last thing that you want to do, especially with, you know, affordability being so high. You don't want to pay more than what you need because it's my forever home. But if you're interested in that mortgage calculator, you can see it.

1:03:54It's so easy to plug in those numbers, guys. I plugged in 700 ,000, her down payment, 15-year fixed, and you can see what your total would be mortgage payment with everything included.

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1:05:38All right, you guys, our Ramsey Show question of the day is brought to you by Why Refi. Sometimes the hardest financial step is the one you've been avoiding. If your private student loans are past due, Why Refi can help you explore low fixed rate refinancing options and payment plans that are tailored to your circumstances. So go to whyrefi.com slash Ramsey. Remember, it may not be available in all states. Today's question comes from Brad in Arkansas. Brad writes, my son is 23 and still lives at home. He pays rent, his cell phone bill, gas, car insurance, and repairs, tithes, etc. But he's not saving any money.

1:06:16He has packages coming to the house almost every day in addition to buying a bunch of stuff he doesn't need. how do I encourage him not to waste so much money? I think we're fighting the wrong battle. I think the main battle I'd be saying is, how can I encourage myself to tell my son he needs to move out? I think that'd be the question. There's no indicator in this question of the day that the kid is living at home to try to pay off student loans or something like that, because I know that that's a popular thing and I'm not poo-pooing that. Are they trying to save up money so he can go get his own place?

1:06:53Right. There's nothing here indicating that. And so for that reason, I really do think, John, and I would love to hear your thoughts on this. I really do feel like 23 years old, 24 years old, 25 years old, still living at home, unless there's a really clear plan in place. Hey, you're going to live here until you pay off$70 ,000 of student loan debt. Then you're out. It's going to take a year and a half. We've agreed. Boom. That's fine. Not mad. But if it's just like, I'm just at home because it's cozy here and I can play video games on my phone and I can gamble on my phone and I can have Amazon packages delivered and I can kind of just seep into, you know, the nothingness.

1:07:37That's not okay. And I think we really have to push back on that, especially with young boys. Like we really have to push them. It's a disservice. Yeah. What he needs more than anything is to feel the weight of this scary word, and that is responsibility. And he's doing a good job, Brad, of doing what you tell him. But he's not doing a – he's not feeling the full weight of the responsibility of it. Here's a perfect example. He's buying a bunch of stuff he doesn't need. Says you. He might think in his 23-year-old wisdom he needs this stuff. He needs these new fancy socks or these new fancy shoes or this new fancy hair product or this new fancy whatever.

1:08:20And part of being 23 is buying dumb crap and realizing, I wish I had that money. That won't happen again. On your own. On your own. But when dad is saying, you don't need that, now I'm pitting your value system against my value system. And I'm going to fight for my value system against my old man just because, right? Yes, but you never really learn yours. But I don't learn anything. So he is paying rent because you say so. He's paying a cell phone bill because you say so. He is paying for gas, car insurance, because you say so. He's not learning the weight of responsibility that 23-year-old young boys who are becoming men desperately need.

1:08:58And so the greatest – you nailed it. The greatest gift you can give him, Brad, is to say, hey, in six months we're giving you the greatest gift we can give you, and that is you're moving out. We've given you – I'm assuming he went to college. You're two years post-college. You'll be three years. I would recommend you save up this much money. You can save up this much money, but at 24 or 23 and a half, you're moving out. And me and mom are getting the house back. I'll never forget. I went to college, not far from home, but far enough that I lived on campus. And the first time, the first couple of times I went to the grocery store, I'm going down the aisle and I'm putting in my cart Campbell's cream of chicken soup, Velveeta cheese.

1:09:43Name brands. It was like banquet pot pie. Yeah. And I looked at what was, and I was, I realized I'm only putting this in my cart. Cause this is what my mom and dad bought at the grocery store. And this is what I'm used to. And I put everything back on the shelf and I was like, I don't have to do that. I live, I live on my own now. I can buy the things that I want to buy. And it's like, you have those light bulb moments when you're, you know, 21, 22, 23, and you actually strike out on your own that you start to realize to your point, what are my values? But as long as you're under somebody else's roof, you're like, I buy the chicken pot pie.

1:10:18That's what my mom buys. I pay my rent. She tells me. Right. And it's so it's such a discovery moment. You don't want to take that away from them, you know, to be able to discover who they are, what they like, what they don't like, what their values are. Well, it's sometimes the weight that all young adults need to carry, and especially in our current world, young men need to carry, is not even the known bills, but that hovering presence of this could happen. The car could get two flat tires. The transmission could fall out. And I've got nothing to fall back on. And so it's not only the bills that – it's the unknown unknowns, right?

1:10:54It's the – there's just a weight to what happens if? yeah that's that's what an emergency fund is for yes that's what savings are for and you learn that when like i had to when you leave when i call a friend and say i think i need to go to the er and i have all of my credit cards are maxed i can't get in the door yeah can i borrow a credit card if i end up needing to go and i remember getting him my buddy's like i got you and i got the phone and said that will never happen again yeah and so like he has to experience yes it does something in you and he has to experience it. I got to say this. I know I'm not the first one to say it, but there's, um, there's a quiet message that I think that we do send our kids when we attempt to shield them from things like that.

1:11:40And we, we think that we're doing them a service. Oh, they're 23. They're just getting started. They want to stay at home for a little while. That's okay. But there is a quiet message that's being sent that saying, you know what? I don't think you can make it out there either. I don't believe in you. Yeah. I don't think you can make it out there. Why don't you stay here? Yeah, you're right. You probably can't make it on your own. You probably can't handle the rent. You probably there. You're not saying it out loud, but what else are you saying? That's the air they're breathing is we don't believe in you.

1:12:04Yes. And so the greatest gift a kid can get is a lifetime of tools and B, if you've got the resources to, to put a little extra jet fuel in their backpack, get, put it in there, put it like, shoot them off into space and then to look them in the eye and say, I believe in you. my front door is always open you can always come home but I believe in you and now it's time I'm gonna shove you out of the nest yes I love that and yeah so Brad it you're at a point now where you got a an old bull and a young bull trying to make friends inside the same pen and that's not gonna work you're not gonna encourage him to not waste so much money because he doesn't think it's a waste what you have to encourage him to do is to get out on his own and begin getting stronger in the weight room of life, knowing that you're right there.

1:12:49You're his dad. You love him. His mom's there. She loves him. But it's time for him to start lifting the weights on his own. Yeah. And I think that, I mean, we're talking about a 23 or 24 year old, but I really do think that that starts really, really young with just building up people that are going to go out in the world and be young men and women instead of like kids that we're protecting from every little thing that happens. So this just happened in my house. My son's 16 and we're about to enter into deer season, which is in our family's... It's a big deal. It's a big deal. Venison. Venison.

1:13:26There you go. And he was telling me this year, Dad, I'm going to be going with so-and-so and so-and-so and so-and-so. Not you? I had my heart. It broke my heart. It made me sad because he's been to everyone with me forever. I'm sorry, John. That hurts. It hurts. And it's exactly what we spent the last 13 years training up for. And him and I had a long conversation last night where I wrote things out. Here are my expectations because you're moving to a different tier. And then I walked out of his room and I was so, I didn't cry, but I was real close. Right. It broke my heart because I don't want him to ever go anywhere with anybody else.

1:14:09I want him to hang out with his old man. and that's not the right thing for him. And so my job is to go get some friends to go with now. And my job is to really cherish the times we do have together. And my job is to make sure he's safe. And my job is to let him go in an age appropriate way. 23 years old, it's time. Okay, I'm going to put you on the spot in a major way. Because I was hearing about a study. The topic is overprotection of kids. So I want to know from you, you know, this idea of I'm going to let my son go out and do this thing. I'm going to let my son go out and do this. What do you think is a fair age for a kid to go out in public without a parent and do something social, do something on their own without you there supervising them?

1:14:54A, I think that's kid specific. Okay. And I also think that depends on the group. Like, who are you with? There's an old adage. Playing outside in the front yard on your own unsupervised. Wow. As early as you can. Yeah. Let your kids go be wild, man. Yeah.

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1:16:49Back to the phone lines where we have Brandon in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. Hi, Brandon. How can John and I help today? Hey, thank you for taking my call. You bet. Well, I want to start out by saying that I am a three-quarter baby steps millionaire. All right. Everybody listening, work the steps, people. It will change your life and your family tree. I love that. Well, I really have an issue with how I go about talking to my wife about purchasing a house for my parents. They're getting older, and they can't exactly work like they used to, and they've been renting their whole life. and I want to bless him with a house.

1:17:30I feel real passionate about it, but I've asked my wife and talked to my wife about it a handful of times over the past year, year and a half, and I can't seem to get anywhere. I guess she's scared of putting down that much money. I mean, we could pay cash for it. How old are you guys? I'm 41. She's 36. 41 and 36, and did I hear you have$3.4 million? or$3.25 million? No, we're three quarters of a millionaire. Three quarters of a baby step millionaire. Three quarters the way there. So you're$750 ,000? Yes, ma 'am. Okay, I interpreted that differently. Okay. And then what kind of house do you want to buy that you have cash for?

1:18:13Just a one bedroom, small little countryside house in Arkansas where they live. What's that cost? I've done research about$150 ,000. I can probably get it down to 125. Yeah. And then tell me about the conversation with your wife. How's it go? Well, you know, it's kind of, anymore it's kind of rough. And she's like, we've talked about this before. You know, I'm against it because we wouldn't do the same for my family. And which I totally would do the same for her family because I look at those as investments. But it just, it doesn't go very far anymore. Or, you know, she's just like, well, I'm just I'm just against it.

1:18:54This is for our future. This money is for our future. Have you guys. That's her main argument, I should say. Have you guys have you sat down with her? And I'm not saying in an effort to win this battle. I'm just saying in a separate instance, have you guys sat down together and said, you know, if we continue on down this road, we'll have X amount of dollars by the time we retire. or have you guys sat down and said, here's the exact number that we want when we're ready to retire? Have you all done that? No. Because if you haven't done that, then there's no point to work backwards from to even know if this will affect your future.

1:19:31Is that fair enough? If you guys said, hey, we want to have$3 million when we retire and your wife is able to say, hey, if we do this, we won't have$3 million when we retire. She would be able to make that argument. Do you see what I'm saying? But if you've never said that number, then there's no basis for any arguments, yours or hers, right? I have actually punched what we have into the calculator and what I'm putting in every month into my Roth 401k and whatnot. And I have told her it's over$7 million, but it doesn't seem to persuade her. Yeah, this doesn't sound like a numbers question. Does she not like your parents?

1:20:13she doesn't hate them i don't feel that's not what i asked because i mean yeah she talks to my mom probably every other day yeah my mom and dad don't have the best relationship but they're but they're living together is the 750 that you guys have is that cash money or is that including your own home no i've got we've got 300 equity in our house we've got 315 in the markets and i've got 120 in a rough 401k. I gotta say, um, when you tell me the numbers like that, I don't know. It doesn't sound like you have 125 grand to. You've got, I see you with$435 ,000 in the market. And I think I'd be feeling like, I don't know, 150 today.

1:21:01I don't know how I feel about that, but I don't think she's I agree with John I don't know if she's saying this from a mathematical perspective but I am how much are you putting away every month oh shoot I don't even I don't even it comes out right out of my check so it's 580 a check 580 a check and you get uh okay so let's just for round numbers let's say 1200 a month does that feel fair no it's more like It's more like$2 ,000. I get paid every week, so it's more like$2 ,000 a month. So we'll say$2 ,000 a month. Okay, and we'll say out of the, we'll call it$400 that's already in there. And I'm just putting this in our Ramsey Solutions Investment Calculator, by the way.

1:21:47So we've got$400 ,000 that's already in there. You're age 41? Yes, ma 'am. And let's say, let's just make it round numbers. Let's say 61, so 20 years. If we keep doing that, we're going to calculate that. Yeah, you're right. That's 5 million. If we went on and on, that'd be over 7 million. So I think, I don't know because we had to run the numbers. But when I look at it today, it does make me feel nervous. When I look at it long-term, there's a better opportunity for you to do this. How old are your parents today? My dad's 73 and my mom's 70. have y 'all had the conversation about okay if then we don't buy them a house but what are we going to do when yeah have y 'all had that conversation about no we haven't because i i've heard you in this one call so i'm just trying i'm trying to be gracious towards your wife's perspective i've heard you call this an investment i've heard you call this a i want to bless them.

1:22:51I've heard you call this a battle of wills, me versus my wife. I've heard you say, I want to take care of my mom and my mom and my dad don't have the best relationship, but they still live together. The aim here feels messy to me. And so I think for you getting clear, why do I want to buy a house for them? Because they're not going to have any place to live. They're going to run out of social security. Their health is failing. Because if that's the case, then, all right, we're not going to buy my house in Arkansas, but we got, I, they're my parents. I want us to at least participate somewhat as best we can.

1:23:25And maybe I've got to rally my siblings too, to what they can do, but we can't leave them on the street. You know, what does that look like? And for her family too. Yeah. I, I want to also insert this because I can tell you where my mind is going. And I wonder if your wife's mind is in this place. I guess we won't know because she's on the call, but I look at your ages today and I go, okay, they're 41 and 36. Today, they've got around 400 ,000 saved. That's, you know, to take a quarter of that on a parent's house, that feels like a lot. She might be looking in the future and going, gosh, we don't know what the future holds.

1:24:02We don't know if we're going to both have jobs next year. We don't know if we'll be able to continue investing$2 ,000. Like, I wonder if she's going down that path of, I don't know what's going to change. Therefore, I want to protect what we have and I want to make sure it stays secure. Does that sound at all like your wife? Yeah, that's fair. Very fair. So I'm wondering if there's something that we can do and say, okay, for today, here's the way that we can help. It's not buying a house, but here's maybe something we can begin to do that feels comfortable for her, but is also moving you in the direction that you'd like to go.

1:24:39Maybe that looks like, well, okay, we know there's going to be bills coming up from them that we might have to fit the bill on. What if we said, hey, let's start putting aside a certain amount in a brokerage that we know when they're 83, here's what the cash that we have. And then whatever cash is there, that's what we have to spend. Is that something that you would consider? Oh, absolutely. Yeah. I mean, if we can't come together on, you know, we have to come together on some kind of solution because, you know, I don't know. I don't feel that my parents have a big savings or they would probably have already bought in the house.

1:25:18So like John said, something's going to have to happen. But Brandon, do you know this or is this just a story you're making up?

1:25:28Oh, it's true. My dad's asked me for money before. Okay. All right. So you do know this. I mean, there's a thing beneath the thing. And anytime there's a thing beneath the thing, meaning the fight you and your wife are having is not about buying a house or not. It's about something that's deeper than that. And so getting out of your house, going somewhere, having a long breakfast in a coffee shop and just saying, all right, our parents are both in their seventies. I want us to start planning. I threw out the idea of buying a house. That's not something you want to do. I get that. But I do want us to be honest about what kind of kids are we going to be to our aging parents and whether it comes to money, whether it comes to emotional support, whether it comes to moving them next to us, paying their light bill, whatever that looks like.

1:26:15And let's start planning now for when that change happens. And if you've always had a dream of buying your parents a house, it doesn't sound like you have the money to do that. And so it might just always just be a dream, but you may be able to support and take care of them in the best way that you can.

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1:28:21welcome back to the ramsey show here in the fair ones credit union studio i'm jade this is john and we're going to go to edward who's in fargo north dakota hey edward how are you good how are you doing all right how can we help today so first off i'm not good at articulating my words so try to bear with me because it's a long story but I'll make it short Edward I'm not either so I'm glad you're here brother we'll get through this together thank you so long story short my wife called me this morning and we're newly wed so we're still trying to figure out our house and our just life situation but she wants to sit down with her two older family members to discuss their family business and I'm trying not to be biased with it, but I've always kind of been against it since day one.

1:29:12But she's such a hard worker. She's so smart and everything that I'm trying to, and it's part of her dream. There's just been so many issues with her family and her brothers to where it's caused a lot of drama between us or just hate and ruined relationships. So I guess the main thing is we're going to be sitting down and talking with them in the next week or so. to figure out, hey, if you guys keep disrespecting us, we're walking away. Otherwise, let's try to work this out, make this work. What kind of disrespect does it? Or not walk away. So I'm trying to figure out how to word it simply, but they've been against me for my beliefs and the way I live my life.

1:29:55And like the last three years, I've lived with my mom to help her with foster care and her horse ranch and all sorts of stuff. and they're just not, they're not believers. They don't understand it. Okay. So your family's, your wife's family doesn't have the same spiritual beliefs as you. How does that, how is that affected in the family business? Cause you were saying, oh, she's going to have some business conversations later with the older members of her family. Help me tie together the wife's family business and how that has to do with how you live your life, helping your mom and your spiritual beliefs.

1:30:32So my decisions don't affect them at all, like her older family members. Okay. They just don't like me for whatever reason because I've quote-unquote changed her in negative ways. Okay, understood. But realistically, it has just made her realize how toxic some things are. Okay. And she's been drawing boundaries, and they don't like the boundaries. What is your—do you work in this business too, brother? I'm a part of it now because we're married. It's just basically rental properties kind of thing. Okay. But, and they have big dreams to end up helping single families and like lots of big dreams.

1:31:10My thing is though, is my wife's the only one that has God in it. And then the rest of the family members just kind of have like that money hungry, getting what they never had. I get that. I get that totally. And I guess, go ahead, Jade. I just, and I don't want to step on your toes in any way because I can tell this really bothers you. But I'm trying to understand how this is playing out in the family's real estate business. The fact that whether they're Christ followers or not, what are you seeing that they're doing that is like explicitly, man, this is exactly the opposite of what they should be doing.

1:31:50And it's causing a moral dilemma for you. They just have a lot of hate and they want control. and it's either their way or the highway. They're a big family that hates hard, but loves kind of hard. And I kind of that back and forth, just in an unhealthy way. So you don't like the way that they communicate with each other. That's that for you, that feels for them. They're used to it. But for you, you're like, oh my gosh, the way this family communicates, it's crazy. What is your wife saying? Because your wife, I mean, obviously it's her family. She like, listen, this is the way it is. I got it.

1:32:23I'm used to it. Trust me. Just let me handle this. What is she saying? She, so this morning, she finally kind of got on the same page that I've been wanting to be on, is we're going to have this conversation with them. If it doesn't go well, we'll walk away. If it goes well and they say, okay, we'll do better, then we'll stay. How many is it? How many of them is it? How many? So it's her two oldest brothers, and then her mother is involved in it in a weird, complicated way. So she's going to go to her two brothers and her mom and say, me and Edward don't like the way that you're treating each other and us.

1:33:02We're Christian people and you're not honoring our Christian values. So you either need to start honoring our Christian values or we're leaving. Is that the conversation? Because you can't expect them to honor your values if they don't have the same belief system. Oh, yeah. We weren't going to word it like that because we know. But that's essentially what you're telling me. That's essentially what you're telling. I'm not saying that you're going to word it that way, but that's essentially what you're telling me. And don't get me wrong. I'm not saying that you're out. I'm not saying you're wrong.

1:33:29I'm just saying that's a high expectation. It's probably not going to happen is what I'm really loading up for. So I guess, again, this is it's such a long story and so complicated. The best way I can say it is her mother wasn't invited to our wedding. Her one brother wasn't invited to the wedding either. And then we had to change our heart after talking to our marriage counselors. and we gave him grace. He still didn't show up. And then the other brother during the wedding said some stuff to my groomsmen that really hurt me that he brought it up. So here's the thing. Here's the thing. Here's what I think.

1:34:04I don't think you need to rehash any more drama. I think that you guys are newlyweds. I think she needs to go get a job and not work in the family business. And I think that if she doesn't work in the family business and you guys live in your life, in your house and go to your church and do your thing, and maybe you only see them on Thanksgiving or Christmas, I think a lot of this drama will just dissipate. And I think it's totally fine. No shade for you to go. You know what? I don't know your wife's name. Amber's going to go work, you know, down the road at the medical center and we're done. And it's no shade.

1:34:35Thank you. And just move on. Just move on. I miscommunicated that. So she does have her own job. This is just kind of like her side hustle. Even better. Even better. Walk away. Walk away. Oh, OK. She doesn't have to work. And that's toxic. If she has equity in it, they need to buy her out. But, bro, if I'm you, I wouldn't go back. Well, and that's the thing. I've been wanting to ever since we started getting serious in our relationship. It's just been her dream for so long. But then let it be her dream. And if it's truly her dream, she's going to want to do it with people who build her up. And she feels good working around and feels good being around.

1:35:11She's not so desperate that she has to work in an environment where she feels disrespected or maybe she feels like it's toxic or whatever have you. There's drama between the brothers, whatever have you. You guys are so young. She's got her whole life to build her real estate dreams, her real estate empire. And I think that you guys are, how old are you guys, Edward? 27. 27. I think you're old enough to look at something and go, I don't want to be part of that. I don't want to participate in that. They're my family. I can love them from a distance. I can love them on the holidays. But every day we don't need to be tied up in this because it's just causing more strife between you guys.

1:35:52And I want to double click on what Jade said. I want you to be very clear for yourself and with your wife on when you say disrespect, when you say power hungry. I want you to be very clear about what you mean. I do a lot of work all over the country with people who have wildly different faith values than me. But they're great people. They're amazing people. And we disagree on core issues. And they're awesome people. And I love showing up and doing business with them, doing work with them, doing side-by-side, entertaining people, side-by-side helping people. That can't be the prerequisite. You have to see the world as ice.

1:36:33I mean, it can be. But you're going to drastically limit who you interact with in the world. and man that's a that's a tough road to hoe if you if you circle the wagons at 27 and say you either see the world exactly as i do it believe exactly as i do or i'm going to consider that a sign of disrespect man you're going to imprison yourself and that lock's going to be on the inside of your jail and so be very clear and have an or what statement

1:37:10Hey guys, Dave Ramsey here. Every day on this show, we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next. Now, you can get that same kind of help anytime with Ask Ramsey. Ask your money question and get answers built on Ramsey principles we use on the show. Whether you're making a decision or just want something explained, Ask Ramsey is here to help. It's fast, simple, and free to use. Go to RamseySolutions.com and try Ask Ramsey today. That's RamseySolutions.com.

1:37:59Guys, if today's episode hit home, please let us know in the comments and do your best to share it. You know, share it with somebody who you know that's financially stressed out, that person at work, that person at church, your sister-in-law, your sister. Just share it because when you share it, the message of hope spreads across the lands and it's good for everybody. All right. Let's go to Ben, who's in Grand Rapids, Michigan. Hey, Ben, how can John and I help today? Hey, thanks for taking the call, guys. Appreciate it. Yeah, you bet. um so a little backstory um 20 end of 2024 paid off all of our student loans credit card debts so we were officially debt free besides the mortgage um that was exciting love and life living life um saving money um july of this year my wife's vehicle was up to the 220 000 mile range Ended up getting her a nice, reliable Toyota, but that drained a significant portion of our savings.

1:39:01And now, unfortunately, my 2010 vehicle is also having some issues that the mechanic is recommending the fix slash replacements for it is potentially worth or would cost more than the vehicle itself. so we had kind of just worked on building everything back up and then the car came and we put some money in retirement and so now it's kind of left us short on the unknown of the unknown with two vehicles going out in three months so trying to figure out obviously without financing you know we just paid everything off we don't want to go back to that sure if there's another solution that maybe we're not thinking of.

1:39:47What do you guys earn every single month combined? We bring in, it's about six grand a month. Okay, six grand a month. And up until July, you guys were socking whatever margin you have away in your emergency fund. Is that right? Yeah, so we'd do about$5.50 a month just to the emergency fund alone. And then when the car came up, we quantified that as an emergency. We both drive about 60 miles each way to work. So that was part of the reason we wanted reliable vehicles, was for it to be reliable. Of the 6K, though, your only margin is 550. I want to get to how we can save up this money and some of the things that we can do in the future to avoid this kind of like, oh my gosh, I'm stuck.

1:40:39We need to upgrade the vehicles. yeah so i will admit the mortgage is 2400 of that so that's a bigger portion yeah it really is you know utilities insurance all that stuff you know gets us there gas prices food you know the gym little things here and there okay um what i'd be looking to do and i'm guessing what you bought in July was pretty modest? What'd you spend on that? That was$12 ,500 for that vehicle. Yeah, fair enough. 50 ,000 miles, one owner, Florida driven, you know, just grandma's car. So it worked out really well. So how much is the repair on your vehicle? So the frame is what they're saying is rusting out on it.

1:41:30So they're saying between the welding and the repairs there, it could be anywhere from four to 6 ,500 bucks. Oh my goodness. Yeah, that's expensive. Yeah, that Michigan salt has eaten away the bones of that car. Yeah, unfortunately so. And I've been limping along as much as I can and doing some stuff myself. I mean, I hate to say it, but I want to work backwards for a moment, and then that will frame up why I'm going to say what I'm going to say, because you're not going to like what I'm going to say. Okay. Obviously, you've been driving this 2010 vehicle. when you're driving a vehicle that's that old you have to be thinking in the back of your mind okay the day's gonna come the day's gonna come so at some point you have to start putting aside knowing that that's coming i'm gonna have to upgrade my vehicle she's gonna have to upgrade hers ideally when you're walking the baby steps especially once you get out of baby step two that's like numero uno i gotta be funding this whether it's you know the the emergency fund i'm just going to keep funding that just knowing these vehicles are going to, you know, pop off any moment now.

1:42:38I kind of think that that didn't happen so much. It was like, okay, we've got the emergency fund. We can stop and we can live a little. And then all of a sudden this other vehicle came and it was like, oh man, that sucks. So what I think you're going to have to do, and I hate this, I think you're going to have to save up real quick. And I think you're going to have to have a beater for a while, like a worse beater than you have now. And I think that as you save, you're going to be able to slowly upgrade that up to what you want it to be. Because the truth is you just don't have the cash to spend another$12 ,000 today.

1:43:08And part of that is, you know, you're right. Your mortgage is a high percent. I think it's not quite as high as you think it is. My guess is that 6K that you bring in, that's after medical insurance, maybe after some investing. Am I right? Yeah. So that's take home 401K is funded, all Roths funded, all of that. Right. So if we looked at the number that's just your after-tax number, it'd probably be closer to 7 ,000 maybe? Yeah, I'd say that's fair. I'm salaried and my wife is hourly, so it fluctuates sometimes. But yeah, that's a fair number. So when we compare the 2 ,400 to the 7 ,000, it paints you a better picture, which I think that's good to recognize too.

1:43:50But yeah, I hate to say it, Ben. I think it's beater time for a while. And I think the lesson that we learn is we've got to, when you're driving beater cars with the saved money, you're putting aside actively for the next car that you can trade up and you're actively putting aside for the next car that you trade up from there. That's kind of, that's how you break the cycle. Yeah. Ben, you and your wife are at an inflection point. And this is just one of those people can, I mean, I can follow a workout plan that's in front of me and I can just show up and do that thing every day and I can see the benefits.

1:44:26And I myself have never changed. My identity has never changed because I've outsourced who I'm going to be to whatever this piece of paper says. You can work the baby steps that way. We will just follow this plan. The baby steps will work 100 % of the time. If you live on less than you make and you pay these things off in order, eventually you will get there. And so y 'all have done that. This is an identity moment. Are we a couple who when the chips are down, we're going to go take out a loan and borrow money? Or are we a couple who come hell or high water, we will never borrow money? And that might mean I got to buy a$2 ,000 Camry with 300 ,000 miles on it that's got hail damage, but that sucker's still just cooking.

1:45:09and we're going to pause all other spending. Wife's going to take on a few more hours, extra a week, whatever we got to do. And we're going to save up another 10 grand so that I can get myself a 2017 used Camry or used Toyota. And it's just one of those moments. And I won't beat you up either way, but I want you just to own the choice. We're going to make this choice. And what we've seen is folks who get to the very tip top of the mountain and they choose to walk back down. it's very very hard to climb back up to the top again to pay this if you went took out a 12-5 loan today oh you would hate you would hate the feeling and then you pay it you like you paying that off and then deciding to go back up it's just you're kind of like yeah we're here might as well indulge right so it's just it's just an identity moment man of who who are we going to be in our house and i hate that you're there man like that the rust problem is real dude it is real yeah That's a bummer.

1:46:05Yeah. And that was the frustrating thing for us was we've been saving 400 bucks a month for cars specifically because we knew this was coming. Yeah. But you didn't know it was coming this fast. Yeah. Yeah. And so we actually put 7 ,500 bucks into our Roth just thinking like, oh, we can start saving back up again. So now we're at the point where it's like we just put all this money in retirement. We don't want to take it back out. Yeah. And now another vehicle. So it's just unfortunate timing. So can I just tell you, frustration's real. Your frustration's right. You and your wife aren't bad, folks, for shaking your fist at the sky on this one.

1:46:43That's right. Not at all. It's a bummer because y 'all are doing everything the right way. And then they tell you, oh, no, it's not an engine issue. It's just that the bones are withering away. Like, that stinks, man. I hate that for you. It really does. But it does bring up an important difference between sinking funds and saving. And sinking funds are something that we're doing all along. It's separate from our emergency fund. It's money that we're putting away just a little bit every month knowing I'm going to need new tires. Eventually, I'm going to need to replace this car. Emergency fund is for something that I don't foresee coming.

1:47:12It's for something that I didn't know was happening. And when we look at it that way, it's easy to make sure that we're continuing to save for the right things. If we just stop and go, emergency fund's done. Now we can invest$7 ,500. Well, sinking fund says we're not ready to do that just yet. We only have$2 ,500 to put in there. That's right.

1:47:50Listen, guys, I've heard just about every excuse for why folks think they can't get ahead with money. So let's go ahead and settle this right now. You get the final say on what happens with your money. That's why you have to start telling your money where to go so you can stop wondering where it went. So if you're going to start winning with money, you have to get on a budget. And the easiest way to get started and stick to it is with the EveryDollar Budget app. It'll help you make a plan for every single dollar coming in and every single dollar going out every single month. And And guess what?

1:48:26It's free. So no excuses. Download every dollar in the App Store or Google Play today.

1:48:46Did you file an extension for your 2025 taxes? The October 15th deadline will be here before you know it. I know you don't like me saying it, but it's true. And if your taxes are pretty simple, go ahead and use Ramsey Smart Tax to finish filing before it's too late. Ramsey Smart Tax is affordable and it keeps filing simple. Plus it has built-in support in case you get stuck and need a little help. Remember, October 15th is your last chance to file and get that tax stress off of your shoulders. So go to ramseysolutions.com slash smart tax and start filing now. Now, if you're looking at me going, Jade, I can't do my own taxes.

1:49:24That's okay. If you filed an extension and your tax situation is kind of complicated, or maybe you feel overwhelmed, go ahead and get a pro in your corner to help you out. And you want to do that before October 15th hits as well. With a pro, you're not the one who's battling the IRS on your own. You have some help in your corner. You'll be able to make a game plan for your unique situation or your business, and you'll be able to find CPAs and enrolled agents that have been vetted by our Ramsey team. So go to ramseysolutions.com slash tax pro if you need a pro to help you. And just remember, you can also get free checklists and guides that will help you file if you go to ramseysolutions.com slash tax resources.

1:50:04So you've got, I'm gonna go through those again to make sure you get it, ramseysolutions.com slash smart tax or ramseysolutions.com slash tax pro or ramseysolutions.com slash tax resources. You got it. All right, Olivia in Louisville, Kentucky is on the phone next. Hey, Olivia, how can we help today? Hi, yes, thank you. I am engaged to a wonderful man. We've been together about seven and a half years. We've been engaged for about four. We're getting ready to get married next year. And just have a question really about how to approach him with saying, hey, what are we going to do financially? are we going to join our money?

1:50:49We're going to not join our money. He has his, I have mine. Second marriage for me, third marriage for him. What is the income disparity? What's the total wealth picture disparity? Okay. So I make about$50 ,000 a year. I'm getting ready to retire next April. I will be 59 and a half at that point. He's 62. He makes about$350 ,000 a year. He has$4 million inheritance. He has$2 million in his IRA. I have$1.5 million in mine. I would strongly recommend y 'all sit down and do a prenup together to make sure the assets are, and here's why. Y 'all been together for seven years, almost a decade. I trust that y 'all, you know what you're getting into and he knows what he's getting into.

1:51:52Right. I'm more worried when you're talking that level of money, I'm more worried about something happening to him and his kids or his cousin or his brother's friend's roommate coming in and tying you up legally and you don't have a place to live. You know what I'm saying? and and so coming up with here's the path you do you have kids to it from a previous marriage you take care of well they're on their they're they're 27 and 26 okay um but i do i do support them a little bit okay well i i'm just saying like if if something was to happen to either one of you Yeah. You would both be okay because you both have significant nest eggs, right?

1:52:42Right. And so unless he wants to say, I just got this$4 million inheritance, I want to gift you half of it as my fiance. Or you want to sit down with him and say, I think that should be our$4 million to build our life with. It's just having that big conversation. That$4 million is in a trust. Okay. So it is completely off the table. Okay. Because that's the inheritance, right? Yes. So then he has another two, close to 2.5. Let me ask you a different question. And then I have my 1.5. Y 'all, this is, neither of y 'all, this is your first rodeo. Y 'all have been down, y 'all have had hard conversations before.

1:53:20Y 'all have messed, y 'all have been in the throes of uncoupling legal relationships. And y 'all have been together for seven years. What about this particular conversation are you nervous about?

1:53:35I don't want him to think I'm a gold digger. Like, oh, so now we're getting to the money part of our relationship. Because I pay for my - After seven years? After seven years, yeah. I know. So here's the thing. But he funds, I mean, we also have a home together, vacation home together. Okay. That he paid for. That's 1.2 million. Okay. So when you say we have it together, did you put any money into it or he just bought it and you both live there? Correct. We, correct. We, yes, he bought it. He paid for it. We still owe$600 ,000 on it. When you say we, explain that to me because you're saying, sometimes it's you guys together and sometimes it's him.

1:54:20So if he bought it, I guess he owes the bill, right? Unless he put you on the title. Are you on the deed? I'm on the title. I'm on the deed. So you're on the mortgage too? Yes. Oh, you're on the mortgage too? Ooh, that's messy. Yikes. Okay. And so, yeah, what you want to do is, this is where I think a prenup would be really helpful for y 'all because it allows you to sit down and say, I want us to do life together, meaning I want us to have a single checking account that we're paying our bills out of, that we're paying light bills and phone bills and grocery bills. I don't want us to be Venmoing each other money.

1:54:57Like, hey, you owe me for the light bill. and I want us to go into this thing with established who's covering what. And since you're on the hook for a half a million dollar mortgage right now on a second home. Yeah. And if something were to happen to him, you don't know that you'll get any piece of his wealth, but you will be on the hook for that mortgage. And so I think you'd be right to say, I want a piece of this just to clear the mortgage on this. right i would probably have to sell the vacation home right now he has a house i have a house and then there's another home his mother's home who's passed away uh in michigan so once we sell all our homes and then we'll move into the vacation home which will be our retirement home and then are you going to take the sale of your home and put that in your trust that you've established and he's going to do the same on his side i don't know okay yeah i think it's fair i think it's fair to sit down with uh with an attorney and say we want to do well first i'd talk to him yeah and say what do we want to do here because and and just express some of the places where you feel exposed he can express some of the places where he feels exposed and then you guys can say either we're going to do a trust or we're just going to say we're married and it's a 50 50 deal and i'm willing to say that i'm willing to put that on paper whatever we have when it goes down it's split 50 50 and that's that on that that's fair too right right but i i i like the idea of you leading that conversation with we i want to have this big conversation we're getting older how old are you now oh you told i'm almost 59 yeah so we're getting up in our late 50s early 60s like it's time for us to have grown-up conversations and i'm really nervous that you're going to think i'm a gold digger.

1:56:52So I just want you to know I'm not. I know. And I said to him, look, if I was a gold digger, I would have married you after dating a year or a year and a half. Has he ever joked about that? If it's come up before? A little bit. So that's why you're like, how much of this is a joke and how much of this is a real worry of his? Right. So that conversation needs to happen too. Are you worried that I'm a gold digger? Are you, you made this joke and I wasn't sure if it was a joke or not, I really want to talk about that because it's been sticking, it's stuck in my mind and it's actually causing me to like reconsider having another conversation I really need to have with you.

1:57:32These are, I love Olivia that this is coming up and I love that it's coming up before you're married for you guys to have these real conversations to see like the full picture of who each other is and where they stand on these things is really important. And here's what I don't love, Olivia. What? I don't love that after this long together, y 'all haven't had this conversation yet. I agree. It's just because the disparity has been so great. And he funds, I mean, we go on vacations. And I think that bothers you. I think you feel like a little like. Like you owe him. Yeah. Yeah. And I think it's fair to say, hey, if I'm going to be your wife, we're doing this thing together.

1:58:15And if you're going to be my husband, we're doing the same together. And also, let's go ahead and just clear things up so that we both know where we stand. Yeah. Have that talk, Olivia.

1:58:37All right, let's cut to the chase. It's easy to get discouraged about crazy house prices and interest rates. But when you have the right real estate agent to help you buy and sell the right way, you'll have confidence to make smart decisions. Ramsey Trusted Agents aren't just experts who guide you through buying or selling. They're people you can trust to have your back from the first call to closing day. Find a Ramsey Trusted Agent near you at RamseySolutions.com slash agent. That's RamseySolutions.com.

1:59:20Our Ramsey Show scripture and quote of the day, Deuteronomy 31.8. The Lord himself goes before you and will be with you. He will never leave you nor forsake you. Do not be afraid and do not be discouraged. Good word. Brian Tracy said, character is the ability to follow through on a resolution long after the emotion with which it was made has passed. Yes. Wow. I love that. That's very good. I need to hear that. Very, very good. All right. Let's go to Matt, who's in Minneapolis, Minnesota. What's up, Matt? How can we help today? Hey, guys. Thanks for taking my call. No problem. So just a quick question about retirement and our contributions.

2:00:01So I have a pension. takes out about 12 % of my income towards that. We've been very diligent about doing our 15 % into retirement. I'm kind of curious how much of that I should calculate into it. I love this question. I have a little backstory on our situation if that helps. So typically with a pension, we say to take half of that and count that towards your 15%. And the reason for that is kind of twofold. Number one, a lot of times pensions, if you look at the rate of return that they're receiving, a lot of times they're not as high as what you would receive investing in the market on your own.

2:00:38So kind of covering your butt in that way is good. And then the other thing is it's just good to work that muscle of I'm used to investing this money on my own because if you were to switch jobs and there wasn't investing being done for you in a pension, you'd be kind of blown away with, wait, how much money do I have to put aside to invest. So it's kind of helps you acclimate to this is what it feels like to invest 15 % of my money. And I'm used to living off of that. So that's kind of the way we think about it. And for you, the other six and a half percent that they're putting away, it just feels like gravy.

2:01:14Sure. Okay. That makes sense. Fair enough. Awesome. All right. I'm going to call this one done and done. I love it. I'm usually expecting more. All right. Bye. I got to go eat a sandwich. Great question, man. I love that question. All right. Rose is next. She's in Syracuse, New York. Hey, Rose. How can we help? Hi. So I, just to make a long story short, I failed the bar four times. Oh, no. I'm sorry. Yeah. Me too. I have a bit of test-taking anxiety when it comes to that exam. Now, what I'm wondering right now, I just started listening to Ramsey, is should I retake it or should I focus? I'm trying to start a business and trying to get my secondary income going.

2:02:00So, yeah, I'm wondering which path I should take at this point. So, Rose, I spent years as a dean of students at a law school. So I know I've been with you guys as y 'all are studying for this behemoth of an exam. And I felt the stress and ricochet through a building. So tell me what you would do differently this fifth time studying for this exam. Yeah. So the last time I failed it, it was by about 10 points. And it's gotten progressively better, I'll say. And what I would do differently is I'd start studying. Well, I started studying three months before for each of them. I'd start studying well in advance, probably take about five months.

2:02:48I would take another course. I took a course the last time and that helped a lot. And because what the problem is that when I start taking the exam, I just start thinking about how important it is. And then my mind just goes blank. Sure. And so I would just practice, practice, practice to the point where I could take it in my sleep. And I studied before, but yeah, I do that. And it's been a few years, but the last I was closely involved with the bar prep world, the rate with which people took a prep course and just simply worked every one of the prep course problems, their pass rate was astronomical.

2:03:35which was I will the courses are expensive I will take the course I will just do all the problems I will submit them I'll just do what they tell me to do on the days they tell me to do it and the pass rate was the last I remember it was like in the high 90 something percent not a guarantee but pretty dang close do what? it helped my score it got way higher I didn't pass but it got way higher how much of the bar prep course did you actually do though? I did 90%. Okay. So that might be your 10 questions, right? Yeah. Yeah. It's really just the anxiety. Like I just, my mind goes blank at times during the exam.

2:04:17You don't, you can't afford that. Okay. So that's the second thing I want you to do. Okay. If possible, I want you to go utilize your resources at your law school. And if you can't, then I want you to hang on the line and we're going to hook you up of three months free with our friends over at BetterHelp. I want you to sit down with a professional mental health counselor and say, I have a very particular test anxiety that I want to run right through the middle of and get some very clear guidance. Have somebody walk with you on this particular thing and give you some strategies, some self-soothing, some breathing exercises, whatever to help you navigate this one hard challenge.

2:04:59That would be great. Okay. Yeah, that would be good. But the path through anxiety, and this is coming from somebody who's struggled with it my whole life, the path for healing is right freaking through the middle of it. And that's scary because the closer you get to it, the louder the alarms get, the more you're going to fail, you're going to fail, and then, and then, and then. And so we turn and we duck, right? The path is through it. and I've had to sit with a counselor to have somebody walk with me. You do it. It would be awesome. But if you're this close, I mean, I don't know what you stand to lose other than a couple thousand more dollars on a prep course.

2:05:44Yeah, I'll try that. Thank you so much. So you don't think I should kind of put it aside, the exam? I can't take that decision from you. I'm not going to be somebody else who takes your agency and autonomy from you. I want you to look in the mirror and say, I want this this bad. Or I want to take the skills of critical thinking, of being an outstanding writer, a person who cares for the least of these in our communities. Whatever skills you took from your legal education, I think it makes you an absolute sword fighter out in the world. So you can take that and the skills you learned are transferable almost anywhere.

2:06:28And if that's what you choose to do, I don't want to practice law anymore, but I want to take these skills and go be ferocious out in the marketplace. Go for it. But I don't want to take that decision from you. I want you to look in the mirror and say, I really want to be an attorney for these reasons, or I want to go start a business. Either way, what you've learned in your tenacity is going to carry you far. you're already somebody who gets knocked down and isn't afraid to get back up you've been knocked down four times that's a lot of times to get hit but you keep getting back up and dusting yourself off that's the kind of person i want to hire that's kind of person i want on my team who never gives up but i also want somebody on my team jade who's like all right that's that's enough getting knocked down yeah so i bet one of the worst things about anxiety is people come in and try to rescue you from it instead of holding your hand and walking through it and when you get rescued from it, your body gets the message, oh, good, we got to avoid that thing that was scary, and it actually makes it stronger.

2:07:25And so heading through the middle of it is always the path. It's just a scary, scary path to take. I mean, I for one hope that she pushes through, because she says she's gotten progressively better every single time. And I mean, I almost wonder, is it like, you know, when you play sports, and you just go through a slump, and your brain is just like, you're just so in your head on everything that the tasks that you're like, I know how to do, do this. You're just not in your head so much. I know this one of the smartest guys I've ever met in my entire life ever, ever, ever. A 35 year friend of mine named Mike.

2:07:58After he took the bar exam, I called him and said, How'd you do? And he said, Dude, I have no idea. And so I have just seen people melt. And so I have to just trust this. This test is its own unique animal. But let's be honest, outside of law school, all of us have big, hard things, hard conversation, like the hard conversation we just had about the money with her, her future spouse. Like we all have hard conversations with our kids, with whoever. The path is always right through it. And it's just getting the tools and the path and maybe somebody to go with you, but that's always the path. Well, Rose, we're definitely rooting for you.

2:08:39Fifth time's a charm. That's what they say. It's the charm, Rose. And hang on the line. We'll get you hooked up with three months for free with our friends over at BetterHelp and be very specific about what you want them to help you with and get on it. I love that. Well, guys, remember, ultimately, there's only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

2:09:11Thank you.