Protect Your Wallet From Other People’s Chaos

23:37Dave Ramsey:Everyone has it. Some get more than their share, more of a dose of craziness to start off life, coming from a dysfunctional family. And my family put the fun in dysfunctional. Yeah, that one, yeah. You come from that family, it's a rough start. You know, like that kid there, that was tough. Yeah. And but what I want to point out to our listener base right now is that unless and until you deal with those things, not only between your own ears, but you set healthy relational boundaries that do not allow the takers to interfere with your progress, whether they take your joy, take your hope or take your money.

24:24Dave Ramsey:you don't allow the takers to take advantage of you and to interfere with your progress until you set up boundaries i'm gonna love you from a distance about two miles get your butt out of here because you're just nuts you're negative nanny every time i'm around you all you can do is talk about negative crap and i need to move in another direction and so learning to set those boundaries is very painful. But the sooner you set them, the faster your progress begins. And you will not overcome those things unless you put some fences up. You cannot, they are bigger hurdles than any mathematical 401k question you can ever ask me.

25:05Dave Ramsey:Any stupid Bitcoin idea you've got, whatever it is you're trying to do with money is not going to work until you learn to deal with the people in your life, and that includes some of you that are dating right now, and you don't need to marry that one. That one's going to be a long life. They're fun right now, but you know in your heart of hearts that one's going to be rough. You're going to spend your whole life dealing with nutty, and you're going to wake up every morning with nutty and go to bed every night with nutty, and that's crud, man. That's a long, don't marry that one. I'm sorry, but that's the truth.

25:42Dave Ramsey:I mean, one of the reasons that I've been able to accomplish the things I've been able to accomplish is my wife's sanity and strength. She adds value to the whole process every day. She does not cost me emotion. Hardly ever. She does not cost me, you know, ridiculous scenarios that I have to deal with while I'm trying to get my freaking work done. And it's one of the things that – and one of the reasons she's got a good life is the same thing, is I do that for her. Add value to her in those areas. I've watched you and Stacey do this for 20 years, 25 years we've known each other. Same exact thing.

26:24Dave Ramsey:You just can't overcome it. This personal relational roadblocks, if you don't take a bulldozer and build some fences, some boundaries, it's just impossible. I'm glad you said to everybody, and I hope you heard Dave. He said, it's going to be painful, but here's what successful people do that Dave's talking about. They choose their pain. So it's going to be painful. Both of these phone calls illustrate that there was pain in making the right decision, but there was also more pain in not making the right decision. So choose your pain. And I think that's what successful people do. They go, this is not a win-win from an emotional standpoint.

27:03But when we take the emotion out of it and acknowledge that this is going to be dirty and nasty and ugly because of somebody else, them being unhealthy, then it makes that painful decision a little easier to make. Choose your pain here is the lesson I'm taking from what you said.

27:17Dave Ramsey:And I agree with you. I mean, it's proactive. Somebody's going to be pissed. So proactively decide who. Yeah, right. Piss off the right people. That's right. You know, like you're mad because I'm doing this with my kids. Well, I choose you're mad over my kids dysfunction and being in counseling when they're 30. So I'm doing this with my kids. Screw it. You know, you're OK. You'll make it or you won't make it. I'll choose who will be mad. And like some of you send in hate mail or you post stupid butt stuff in the comments thing. It's like it's not relevant. I've already chose who I'm on, who I want.

27:52Dave Ramsey:If you're who's mad, I chose the right one. You know, that's perfect. And so versus the people that come around want help, need help, and we can help them and get our arms around them and give them some information and some inspiration and they move forward. That's who I want to spend my energy on in the business here and in what we do. But same thing's true with your family. You're going to choose. Okay, who's going to be mad, my children or my parents? Because grandmother is a travel agent for guilt trips. and so mom we're not gonna be able to spend thanksgiving there this year having a duck fit as we call it yeah that's so true exactly what that's what a duck sounds like when they're having a fit actually so i'd rather have a peaceful thanksgiving at the cost of making the family upset than yeah making them happy and being miserable cousin eddie's doing heroin cousin eddie's not invited to thanksgiving cousin eddie's pissed oh well cousin eddie's pissed the heroin addict cousin is pissed.

28:53Dave Ramsey:I can deal with that. I can deal with that. I just set a boundary. You're not coming. You're not blowing up my sewer. It looks like Christmas vacation, whatever it is, right? But if you got Cousin Eddie and you have to piss off somebody, Cousin Eddie's not having access to my children, okay? That was funny in the movie. It is not funny in real life, okay? And so you got to decide these things ahead of time. And the problem is, It is painful because it's oftentimes people who you wish would be cheering for you. Sure. Friends, family, whatever they are, but they're not. And it's like, okay, second grade teacher that said, I'm never going to mount anything.

29:31Dave Ramsey:You don't get a vote. Actually, that happened. And third grade teacher who said you could be anything you want to be. Oh, you get a vote. Yeah. And actually had her here at the building a while back and honored her because we love teachers that don't mail it in. And so, you know, it's just Cali, folks. So, but it's a, what I'm trying to point out is I don't think people realize how heavy the correlation is between your ability to manage relationships and set boundaries with relationships and whether or not you actually end up with any money. That's right. Very few people build wealth until they learn to say no to the right people, until they learn to piss off the right people.

30:14Dave Ramsey:Your brother who's managed your money for 40 years and did a bad job. Oh, well, you're pissed. I can deal with that. Your sister who got a real estate license three weeks ago. No, you're not selling my house. You don't even know how to spell house. We're not doing it. Somebody else is selling my million-dollar house, not a newbie. Well, I'm your sister. I know. This is why we're not doing this. One of the other reasons we're not doing this. Well, I'm going to be mad. Well, good. You're going to be mad. But I'm going to not screw up a million-dollar transaction because you don't know what the flip you're doing.

30:48Dave Ramsey:This is stupid. But this is the kind of stuff you have to deal with all through your life, right? That's right. And if you don't deal with this stuff, you end up with a horrible life and no money. And no pattern of success anywhere in any part of your life. That's right. So these things are inextricably tied to each other. They're woven together. So it's why this stupid stuff ends up on this show. It starts sounding like Jerry Springer sometimes. This is The Ramsey Show.

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32:41Dave Ramsey:Andrew is in Tennessee. Hey, Andrew, how are you? Doing pretty good. How are you doing? Better than I deserve. What's up? I was calling to try to get some advice from you. I'm thinking about going back to college to get my architectural degree. And it's a little late in life. I mean, I'm 40 years old. but I was going to see what your thoughts on it were going back to school that late in life if it's a wise decision or not why? because it's expensive no, why would you go be an architect? what are you doing now and what's your dream? well, before what I did before what I do now I was in the drafting and design business for 20 years almost.

33:39Dave Ramsey:Designing what? What were you designing? Houses or commercial or what? Mill work and steel buildings, you know, different things like that. So what would the – here's the simpler question. Okay. What would this architecture degree allow you to do that you cannot do now and how much would you make versus what you make now? Well, what I make now, it would just add on to what I make. We own rental property, and that's what I've done for the last couple of years. It makes pretty good money. So what would you make? So how much more would you make? Let's fast forward and assume you have the degree right now.

34:24How much more would it allow you to make annually because of the architecture degree? Probably$150 ,000. I mean,$150 ,000 extra.

34:34Dave Ramsey:Wait a minute. Something's wrong. So you're currently managing an entire portfolio of real estate, and that's what you live off of. Is that what you said? Yeah. And how much is all this real estate worth? We bring in about half a million a year. Yeah, and how much is all this real estate worth?

35:00We've had offers of like$4 million for it a couple of times.

35:06Dave Ramsey:So it's an it. It's like one apartment or something or what? No, it's a mobile home park. There's 54 homes. Okay, so you own and manage 54 mobile homes. You make a half million on them and the value is about$4 million. Yeah. Okay. All right, that's what I'm trying to get my head. No, we don't bring homes. We don't bring homes. So this has nothing to do with architecture whatsoever. So if you quit managing this, how does it get managed? i'm not gonna i won't quit honey you can't do two full-time jobs the idea of a full-time job is no no no i no we would still own it i would just hire someone in that's what i asked okay all right so you bring a manager in so that you could go be an architect yeah okay and now what do you want to build what do you want to build as an architect what do you want to draw?

35:57Hotels and houses. Okay.

36:00Dave Ramsey:And hotels, be helpful. Houses, you don't need an architectural degree to draw houses.

36:10Dave Ramsey:I'm living in a house that's millions of dollars in value. It was drawn by a guy who doesn't have an architectural degree. But it has to be stamped by an architect. Not houses. In the state of Tennessee? In the state of Tennessee. I just built one, honey. Oh, I thought you had to have an architect actually stamp off on the drawings to build them. Not a house. What do you pay yourself? I want to get to the cost. So you said this is so expensive and should I spend the money? Let's go to what you pay yourself. what do you pay yourself we make me and my wife together make about a hundred thousand a year okay and and what is the i'm looking at the costs of uh of in-state schools in tennessee nobody cares where you got your architect degree from tennessee state you know you're looking at an average of eighty three hundred dollars per year that's not a whole lot of money university of tennessee average tuition is 13 now that doesn't include all the fees but But as you're looking at this, how much money are you thinking you've got to spend to get this degree?

37:18The school I'm currently enrolled in and done a summer semester at Academy of Art in California. It's the only online architecture school. What's it setting you back per year? What's the cost? It's going to be$150 ,000 by the time I do all five years. That's not including interest. I think it's too much money. Yeah. You don't need to spend that for that. It's not a good value exchange.

37:46Dave Ramsey:You get a four-year degree in architecture from the state of Tennessee at University of Tennessee-Knoxville for$13 ,000 a year. That's for the whole year? For the year. Yeah. Not for a semester. That's for the year. For the year. So this is not a good value exchange. You're getting ripped. Okay, so two things. Two things. One is, yes, I want you to go get in the business of drawing things for other people. It's a passion that's inside your stomach. I love that. Okay? I want you to go do that. The two questions we have that we want you to solve for after you get off of here is, one, what is the least expensive and fastest way I can get this, get what I need to go do that?

38:30Dave Ramsey:And then question number two is, do you really need an architectural stamp to do what you want to do? Well, if I'm going to draw like hotels or hotels. If you're going to draw a commercial, if you're going to draw a large commercial, you're going to need an architectural stamp. I can tell you that. Right. Yeah. Okay. But you're also competing with huge architectural firms for that same job. Right. Well, in my area that I live in, there's actually not many architects in this area. There's like three. But here's what I'd want to know. Then there's not many hotels being built. Right. There's some evidence there.

39:07There's what? There's evidence that there's only three. I'd find out why there's only three. In other words, does the market, can it?

39:15Dave Ramsey:There's not enough economic activity to support more than that. Well, I'm in Pigeon Forge. Yeah. So there's plenty of economic. The point is that people obviously are not using Pigeon Forge architects to build the stuff. They're using architects out of Nashville and out of Knoxville and out of Atlanta and Chicago and whatever else, depending on which company is coming in to build the thing. Right. Okay. So, you know, what you've got to do is get in to figure out exactly, A, what is needed to do what you want to do. And I'm questioning whether you need an architectural stamp if you really want to go that far, if it's necessary.

39:54Dave Ramsey:If it is necessary, if the answer is yes, then figure out the least expensive way to do it. And if you're in Pigeon Forge, honey, go down to Knoxville and knock this thing out. I mean, you're an hour away. Just commute your little butt down there and get a four-year degree. And take it all in three years. You're like a grown-up and stuff. You're not trying to play beer pong. You're just getting the degree. Okay? So just go knock it out as fast as you possibly can and find out if they have any kind of adult learning for the architectural school. But the University of Tennessee's architectural school has got a great reputation, by the way.

40:28Dave Ramsey:just as a side note. And I've used two or three architects on projects that graduated from there, and they all were excellent in their knowledge base. So if you do need it, that's the way to do it. Online for$150 ,000 versus$50 ,000.

40:48Dave Ramsey:No, no, not doing that. Yeah, especially given that you told Dave and I as we questioned what your process was that you were going to continue to – You were going to hire someone to manage the trailer park. So in this case, now I can do a similar version of this and still manage to do school. You don't need an online school in California to the tune of$30 ,000 a year. Go ahead and put your manager in now and haul your little butt down to Knoxville. Yeah. That'll work. Yeah. But I got to mention this to our greater audience. There's four qualifying questions that I wrote about from Paycheck to Purpose.

41:22So when you're looking to get qualified, here's four questions you have to answer, and it comes up with a very simple, doable plan, and it's not intimidating. First question is, what do I need to learn? This is, is there a degree that I must have to do the thing I want to do? If not, there's certificate programs, there's boot camps. So the first question is, what do I need to learn? Second question is, what do I need to do? What experience will I need to get to eventually do the thing I want to do? That tells me where on the ladder I need to enter. Third question is, how much is it going to cost?

41:54Get the best options, get all the options. The fourth question is, based on cost and what I've got to learn and do, what's my expectation? How long will it take to get where I want to go? Those four questions, when you answer, give you a clear path that is not scary to do.

42:10Dave Ramsey:And that will keep you from spending$250 ,000 on a master's degree in social work to make$38 ,000. That's right.

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43:37Dave Ramsey:Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's The Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. Ken Coleman, Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author and host of Front Row Seat, a runaway hit on the Ramsey Network. She's my co-host today. Vincent's in Ohio, or Idaho, what did I say? Idaho. Hey, Vincent, what's up? Hey, how are we doing, guys? Hopefully your Monday is treating you well. It is, sir. How can we help? the question I have is I just recently joined the air national guard and with that I get a $50 ,000 bonus so my question is what I'm thinking of investing it right I don't want to blow it on a nice new car you know like a lot of people do I don't I want to invest it and make my money work for me what would you guys recommend me doing with it well thank you sir for serving your country I appreciate that.

44:35Dave Ramsey:Oh, yeah, for sure. Okay. How old are you? I am 22, and I just recently graduated from the university. Okay. All right. And are you going to be full-time guard, or is this just your— No, I'll just be part-time. And they have a$50 ,000 sign-on now. Yeah, isn't that crazy? That's pretty incredible. That's awesomeness. I know it is, yeah. Okay. So, cool. So what's your career going to be? um so my career it's kind of like a smaller one it's called industrial organizational psychology basically what i want to do is apply like statistics and stats to be able to go into like businesses and be able to improve them right okay you just graduated school you got the job uh no i don't have a job yet since i'll be going out to like basic training and everything so right now i'm just kind of in like la la land i'll ship out in like a week or two and then when i come back I have to get a master's degree first.

45:30Well, I don't know if I have to, but. Okay.

45:32Dave Ramsey:Okay, so if you come back and you get a job and you're sustainable, you won't need this$50 ,000 to live is my point. Yeah, exactly. No, I'm not banking on the$50 ,000. That's all I was just trying to verify. We don't need it to eat. Okay. And you have any debt? Zero debt. Cool. Good for you. What are you driving? uh i have in uh like a 2007 uh camry it's treating me well decent mileage no complaints okay all right um i'm gonna i'm gonna put 10 with that and upgrade your car i appreciate you not complaining but your car sucks okay so let's say well i mean i do want to i mean i i think uh i'll put a little bit towards my car but i think i want like this is my idea and obviously you're the expert.

46:20I want to put most of it into like an investment, right, like a mutual fund.

46:23Dave Ramsey:I would love for you to do that, okay, but I want you to create a sustainable lifestyle so you keep your freaking hands off of it. And if you're driving a 2007 and it blows a gasket three weeks after you do your investment, you're going to start cashing out the investment and do a stupid bad car deal. Yeah, I mean, I also have both of them. It's what I'm trying to keep you from doing, okay? Yeah, that makes sense. So if I were you, I would invest 40 and I'd put 10 into a car if I woke up in your shoes And I'd put it into good growth stock mutual funds. Sit down with a smart investor pro in your area.

46:55Dave Ramsey:You can find those at Ramsey Solutions. They have the heart of a teacher, and you will begin your financial investing education by sitting with a pro that can teach you about mutual funds, how they work, what the track records are. And they love the good ones, and we only let the good ones into our program. We don't endorse the bad ones, okay? But they love sitting with a young person because they know the power of compound interest. And they know that 40. You said you're 22? Yeah, 22. So when you're 29, that's 80. When you're 36, it's 160. When you are 43, it's 320 if you don't touch it. Yeah, leave it in until I retire, right?

47:42Dave Ramsey:Yeah, it's going to be millions of dollars at retirement if you just keep doing the formula I was just doing. Now, that's the trick. Now, you may want to use some of it someday to buy a house. You may want to use some of it someday. That's okay. But let's learn. Let's start the learning process because you have the seeds of greatness in you because you're willing to ask at 22 years old about doing something smart instead of going and buying a brand new F-150, which you can't buy a F-150 for$50 ,000. I'm sorry. My bad. But anyway, buying a stupid car. Yeah. I would just add, Vincent, I would also do the homework on do you need the master's degree?

48:18Because you were unsure. That's okay. But let's figure out, do we actually need a master's degree to do the work that you want to do? If the answer is yes, how soon do we need it? Are there rungs on the ladder to that ultimate role that I can climb without the master's degree? Think this thing through. Don't assume that I got to go get it now when you may not need to get it now. And also, do your homework on where I can get it from the absolute cheapest. Because I sing this note all the time. Nobody who is your future customer is going to ask you where you got your master's degree. So make a smart decision there as well.

48:57Dave Ramsey:Let me help you. They're most of the time not even going to ask if you got a master's degree. Right. That's right. The only thing, we got 1 ,100 people working here. The only thing we're concerned about is can you do the job? If the master's degree is an indication that you know something, that's good. But sometimes it's an indication you know nothing. So you just weren't smart enough to stop going to school. So, you know, we need to get into why you need this and what it is and how it applies. And industrial organizational management, it does not require a master's degree to be successful. It might to get in the door with a certain Fortune 500s.

49:33Dave Ramsey:but to do the actual job the knowledge base is not needed it's like a it's like an mba a master's in business it's a great degree there's nothing wrong with it but you can do the job of business running a business understanding business building business acumen without an mba i don't have one and i run a 300 million dollar company so it's very possible it can be done um you gotta have a couple brain cells to rub together and then you'll figure it out but the uh this idea that somehow degrees are your deliverance is ken's point uh we've got to get away from as a society teaching people that the answer to everything is go get another degree because that's 1.7 trillion dollars in student loan debt with people that spent 250 000 to get a degree in left-handed puppetry and now they're puppetry and now they're a barista and they and they are figuring out trying to figure out how student loan debt forgiveness works and it doesn't work so it's a problem to when people just go get degrees that they don't need you know especially if you're borrowing money to do it it makes it even worse so it's it's a big issue the the uh documentary that was award-winning that we did a few years ago you can now watch it free on youtube it's called borrowed future it gets into in detail you know what is needed and And we're not against a four-year degree.

50:53Dave Ramsey:We don't hate colleges and universities. I hate what they charge because of some of the stupid butt stuff they build on campus. I hate that. But, you know, what I hate, what I don't want is people believing lies that lead them down a trail. And the lie is you have to have a degree to do this, and you don't. That's exactly right. Yeah. And the question is, is a degree the only way or is it the best way? That's a two-part question. If the answer is no to either one, folks, listen, there's some great news here. A lot less money and a lot less time to get qualified. But you've been sold this bill of goods that the degree is always the grade A best option.

51:34Well, if my life is bad, the answer is go back to college.

51:37Dave Ramsey:That's right. Like that's going to solve it. That's going to make your life worse. Yeah. No.

51:51Thank you.

52:23Dave Ramsey:I've been doing this show for over 30 years and some of the saddest calls I've taken are from situations that are completely preventable yeah and what's so hard is I feel like one of those especially the ones that I'm like oh it's terrible air people that call in and their spouse has passed away suddenly and they don't have life insurance we actually took a question of a lady and she had three kids pregnant and husband didn't have life insurance and I'm like, I can't even imagine, or even if it was opposite, right? If a mom passed away, there's a dad with kids and trying to figure out how am I gonna afford childcare?

53:00How do I outsource some stuff that maybe she was doing? And it just takes the grief and the sadness of something like a sudden death to a whole new level. Like when you have to think through how am I gonna pay my bills? How am I gonna eat next week?

53:14Dave Ramsey:Yeah, in the middle of all that grief, like it's just, it is, it's terrible. And so life insurance is the one thing, especially as a mom with three little kids that I'm like so big on for people to get because it's inexpensive. Xander is the place that Winston and I actually get all of our life insurance. And we keep re-upping it because I'm like, I just want it there. Like there's something about that safety of knowing that you have money if something suddenly happens. And it doesn't cost much because Xander shops among a gazillion different companies. It doesn't cost much. You just have to admit that someday you're not going to be here.

53:42Dave Ramsey:You got to say it out loud and you got to say, I'm going to say I love you to my family by taking care of them and taking the time to put this stuff in place. that cost us stinking pizza. It really is. So that is one thing to do to say I love you to your family. So we've used Xander for all of our family's needs for insurance for many years, including, of course, term life insurance. To get a free quote, go to 800-356-4282. That's 800-356-4282. Or go to Xander.com.

54:29Dave Ramsey:Kanoa is with us in Phoenix. Hakanoa, how are you? Doing good, Dave. How about yourself? Better than I deserve. What's up? Hey, so me and my wife are currently on Baby Step 3B, and we're trying to see what our next step should be. So right now we're able to save about$40 ,000 a year, give or take, and we're trying to decide, should we save for two years and then buy with 20 % down to avoid PMI at a 15-year fixed, or should we just keep renting for the next seven years and then just pay for a house outright in cash? What's your household income? About$150 ,000, give or take. What do you all do?

55:17I'm in sales and she's in social media marketing.

55:21Dave Ramsey:Okay. So your seven years assumed your household income would be staying at 150. Yes. Which is not true. Because obviously your income is going to go up during seven years. Agreed? I would hope so, yes. I would hope so too. Otherwise, we've got other problems. So we're probably looking at five years. Okay. How old are you guys? I am 24. She is 22. Okay. So when she's 27 years old, you pay cash for a house. And when you're 29 years old, you pay cash for a house. Or in two years, we put 20 % down. Yeah. Okay. That's what we're laying out here. So the answer is neither one of these are horrible options.

56:06Dave Ramsey:None of these are in the stupid column. None of these are in the I'm going to yell at you. Don't do something stupid. Please, please, please just call them. Okay. Very smart choices that you proposed in both cases. And the answer is whichever one you would like to do. That's the answer because they're both smart. And I will tell you this. I am bound by a – this is the only answer on the Ramsey Show that I give that is not what I would do. Okay? Because I do not borrow money ever for anything ever again. period no matter what so i would have personally sharon ramsey dave ramsey we'd have one option and that's the five-year plan and we'd turn it into a four-year plan because we'd work like maniacs because we'd be so pissed we didn't have a house but all that right i mean we would just go crazy but that that's what we do and what we have done throughout our lives since we went broke and decided that the borrower is really slave to the lender and we really don't borrow money anymore.

57:13Dave Ramsey:Now, so I don't have a choice. That's a decision that I made based on my understanding of scripture and the pain that we went through when we borrowed money. It is the one thing on this show, again, that I don't tell people they have to do. Other than that, I never borrow money for a car. I'll just yell at you. Don't borrow money for a car. It's stupid. Ride a bicycle before you borrow money for a car. It's just dumb. You want to be middle class, get a car payment. You'll be middle class the rest of your stupid life. Okay, just don't do that. You know, there's some stuff like that that I'm just going to hold you to and hold me to and hold everybody to just because it falls in the smart column.

57:50Dave Ramsey:The other one's in the dumb column. Now, buying a house and you outline their exact Ramsey way, 20 % down if you can do it, is preferable because you avoid private mortgage insurance. And on 15-year fix where the payment's no more than a fourth of your take-home pay, you just recanted back to me exactly what we teach, So it's obvious you've been studying it and you knew that that was the answer I would give you. So that's perfect. If you do that, you are obviously borrowing money, which I can't do, but I still don't yell at people for doing that. I don't think it's dumb. Is the other way better?

58:22Dave Ramsey:Yeah. Yeah, I think never borrowing money again is better. That's why I chose to do it. But I'm not going to yell at you for being dumb and doing that because it's what we teach and what we've taught here for years. It's the only time the debt comes up, the only time the debt comes up on this show in 30 years that we've said it's okay. And with these very strict guidelines to where you turn around and get the house paid off as fast as possible. Yeah, I put myself back into their shoes. And if I had it to do all over again, and we were smart with our first home. We didn't buy something that was too expensive.

58:58We went pretty modest. But if I had it to do all over again and I could get the entire payment in five years, I'd absolutely rent. Especially when you're in your early 20s. Yeah. Freedom's that early in life, financially, emotionally, to have no house payment, I would definitely take that choice.

59:16Dave Ramsey:Keep in mind, folks, the social pressure to do otherwise is everywhere. Massive. Everyone's like, get a house, get a house. Oh, you're renting. Oh, like you're going to hell if you're a renter. You know, it's like it's a salvation issue. Oh, my God. It's just, oh, you're horrible. You're dumb. Oh, oh, oh, oh. And these are all broke people making these noises. Doug's in Allentown, Pennsylvania. Hi, Doug. What's up? Hello there, Dave and Ken. How are you guys doing today? Great, man. How can we help? That's great. I have a question regarding life insurance. I have a term life insurance policy through the VGLI.

59:52It's a$50 ,000 payment or a$50 ,000 benefit, and I pay$300 annual. I also have a What is the VGLI? The Veterans Group Life Insurance

1:00:05Dave Ramsey:Oh, okay Didn't recognize the initials Okay, alright, thanks That's okay I also have a whole life policy Now I'm going to be 60 this year And my mom got this policy from me when I was 5 years old And she's been paying on it And then I eventually took it over And I've been paying on it ever since It has a death benefit of$11 ,350 It's like a family pet. Yeah, exactly. No kidding. It's got$7 ,000 in total assets, okay, with a taxable gain of about$3 ,300. No, I doubt that. Sure, okay. Who told you that? I called New York Life. I called them and asked them with a taxable gain list. out of$7 ,000 total assets, it's got 3 ,300 taxable gains.

1:00:59Dave Ramsey:Which means you guys have only put$4 ,000 in this in your entire life. Basically, yes. I pay$129 a year for that policy, and it has$10 ,000 death benefit. Okay. All right, so if you die, they're going to give your beneficiary an$11 ,000 check. They're going to keep the$7 ,000. Correct. So you have$4 ,000 worth of insurance. So my question is— So you have$4 ,000 worth of insurance. No, no, no, no, no. The actual debt benefit is$11 ,300. I know, honey, but there's seven in there that's your money. They're going to keep that. So they're only giving you—they're going to give you your$7 ,000 and$4 ,000 for$11 ,000.

1:01:43Dave Ramsey:Okay. $7 ,000 and$4 ,000 is$11 ,000. Correct. Okay. So my question is, I have about$20 ,000 in debt, credit card and a personal loan. Trucks paid for, now that doesn't include my mortgage. Should I cash this out and pay off some of my debt? Yes, for God's sakes, yes. Okay. That's what I was thinking also. So I just wanted to hear what you thought about it. You have a savings account of$7 ,000 that when you die, they keep it. Exactly. Yeah. Somehow that doesn't work for me. Okay. It is that simple. And so that's how bad this product is. And New York Life talked this family into keeping this for 40 years.

1:02:32Dave Ramsey:Like it's a family pet. And not only did they, not only did his sweet little mama buy it and get screwed by New York Life, But on top of that, she handed this piece of crap product, this turd wrapped in a box to her son and said, I pass this to my son.

1:02:56Dave Ramsey:As if it was the family Bible or something. It's unbelievable. The emotion is tied to this crap. Yes, cash it in, honey. as fast as you possibly can and run from that company as far as you can run a company that would do that. Oh, my God. But this is why they have tall buildings and you live in small houses. Think about it. In the old days, what were the skylines in the average city? The average skyline was banks and life insurance companies. That was where all the money was. And who gave them that money? Santa Claus? No. your mama, your daddy, your grandma when she bought you that policy. $11 ,000 at a time, we screwed America.

1:04:27Dave Ramsey:Do you know that 7 out of 10 Americans die without a will?

1:04:39Dave Ramsey:that just that kind of fits because 78 percent of americans live paycheck to paycheck so people suck with money so that just that just kind of solves that right i mean it kind of fits but it just blows your mind to think that seven out of ten americans die and let the state decide what happens to their kids. If you have minor children and you both die and you don't have a will, the children's services decides. That's a dumb butt idea. Do you not love your kids? I mean, you don't even need money to need a will. If you're 18, you need a will. Get your will. Howard Hughes died with$2.5 billion in 1976.

1:05:29Dave Ramsey:Almost 10 years later, they settled his estate, didn't have a will. 600 people put in a claim. He had cousins he didn't know he had, apparently. He had people that he loved that he didn't know he loved. Who knew? They came out of the woodwork, right? No will. So everybody lined up like it was a lotto ticket. 22 people ended up getting some of the money almost 10 years later. You know who got most of the money? The lawyers. Deloyas. Deloyas. Yeah, you know what Deloyas is. Yeah, right. You know, that's who got the. So you need a will. So August is create a will month. Who knew? Who cares? You need a will.

1:06:09Dave Ramsey:You need a will. And so here's what I want you to do. Take five minutes. Take a quick quiz at RamseySolutions.com slash will quiz. It's free. Click the link in the description if you're listening. And we can help you figure out exactly what type of will. If you can do a quick, easy one like with Mama Bear legal forms or if you've got a complicated estate and you need a lawyer, we'll walk you through that. But either way, you need a will. The people you love will hate you if you die and make them untangle your mess. They will want to dig you up and kill you again if you die without a will. I mean, it's such a dadgum disaster.

1:06:49Dave Ramsey:Don't do this. Jonathan's in Miami. Hi, Jonathan. How are you? How are you doing? Good. How can we help? I'm doing well. Yeah, so just a question. My fiance and I, we're both in our 30s, and we're coming up finally in our career, and we're both about$700 ,000 in debt together. And we're wondering, you know, after about, say, a year of saving and paying our loans and 14 years of training, are we allowed to kind of start living our life finally, like by getting a house and whatnot? Wow. So what in the world do you do for a living? We're both positions, actually. I was hoping. Okay. So tell me this household income is huge.

1:07:39Yes, it should be. It will be huge. What is it now? Right now, we're both in between our training and are actually starting our positions.

1:07:51Dave Ramsey:Oh, okay. So you're just coming out of residency? We're coming out of fellowship, yes. Out of fellowship, okay. So when will you get the big boy job? We won't start until next month. Okay, when you start, what will the two of you be making? Both combined about$900. Okay, all right. Pre-tax, obviously. Okay, Jonathan, so you guys, you've been in school your whole life. i don't know anything else but a test and now you're gonna make a million dollars a year as a return on that investment congratulations that's amazing i'm so proud of you thank you so much and you're the kind of doctor i want one that actually knows what the flip they're doing thank you that's pretty incredible so um you're not gonna like my answer but i will explain it to you as if the patient had a prognosis and we needed to give him a treatment plan.

1:08:53Dave Ramsey:This patient, you and your wife, are a couple of things I know about you just based on your story. I'm 100 % sure both of you are very bright. Dumb people can't do what you all have done. The other thing I know about you that you maybe have not admitted to yourselves, but I'm sure of, is that you know how to delay pleasure for a greater good. You can suffer long periods of time for an excellent result if you believe the result is there. You have that emotional maturity, that spiritual ability, that most people who can't make it to Friday, you made it till 30. Work and work and work and work for tomorrow.

1:09:39Dave Ramsey:Work and work and work and work for tomorrow. Work and work and work and work for tomorrow. That's delaying pleasure. You following me here? You have that muscle built beautifully. And I'm going to try to beg you to use that muscle just at least one more time. 900 ,000 minus 600 ,000 is 300 ,000. I'm going to ask you to live on$300 ,000 your first year and be debt-free before you buy a house. And before you buy a new Beamer or two, by the way. Oh, no cars whatsoever. Well, there's a thing called, we have observed in my world a thing we call dockitis. Doc-itis is you've been holding your breath through grad school, through med school, through residency, through fellowship.

1:10:37Dave Ramsey:And when you finally get the big job, you exhale, and it looks like consumer purchases at the wazoo. That's what it looks like. And that's doc-itis. You've been holding your breath so long to ring the bell to get the prize that when you finally get it, you do stupid on steroids for about two years. And it takes people in my world about ten years to clean up the mess you made for you. even though you make really good money. So I'm trying to get you to tap in. You have this unbelievable ability. Not only are you smart, but you have the ability to delay pleasure. That's an emotional maturity factor.

1:11:13Dave Ramsey:And you've got the ability to do that. And if you will clear this debt before you start living your life, like buying a house, and get that whine out of your voice, like you were whining like a four-year-old, can I now get a house, please, Daddy? get that out of your voice and go finish this like a man and finish the mess you made clean it up and then you're going to be so stinking rich and be able to own any house and any car you want to own you make a million dollars a year with no payments and no debt of any kind you are you're going to have so much money and such a great life and that's what you've been promising yourself while you went through all these sacrifices and i'm asking you to do it for one more year live like you're in residency or fellowship for one more year and use all of this fabulous income clear the dead in one year did i make a sale it makes total sense okay it's not easy it's not easy because you're you've been you've been waiting all this time you've been waiting to get here now you're finally here and this goober on the podcast is telling you not to do this Right?

1:12:20Dave Ramsey:I don't blame you. I mean, it's a normal human emotion. But, dude, you guys are – both of you, you're a power couple. How stressful is this work going to be on a scale of 1 to 10? What do you know about it? Your work. Your work. It'll probably be 7 to 8, maybe. Okay. Now, I want you to think about the added stress if you do what most doctors do and they live high on the hog coming out of college and all this and grad school and the whole nine yards med school. Get a house and$700 ,000. And just imagine the stress of the job plus the stress of the debt if you make no headway. Just seriously sit with that over the next three days.

1:12:59Do some research. Read stories about doctors that are just overwhelmed by debt. Get a picture of what Dave and I are talking about because we've seen it. Peace. And imagine having peace and no stress over money. You got a stressful enough of a job. Hey, 900K, how much sign-in bonus you getting? Sign-on is about 20, not much.

1:13:21Dave Ramsey:Oh, okay. All right. Just a big income. It's an academic place, so they don't necessarily want to do... I'm just curious, which specialization? I'm gastro. And what about her? And she's pulmonology, so I'm pretty sure she's the smarter one out of the two of us. I think both of you are going to be okay, dude. I'm so proud of y 'all. Well done. Y 'all are amazing. Absolutely amazing. Yeah, if you'll just slow down a half a notch and do this right, it's going to relieve stress, anxiety. You're going to be able to work on the work rather than work on the checkbook.

1:14:10Thank you.

1:14:42Dave Ramsey:The Ramsey Show question of the day is brought to you by Y-Refi. Defaulted private student loans can wreck your peace of mind, your finances, even your relationships. Y-Refi offers hope with custom refinancing based on your unique situation and ability to pay. For private student loans that have gone sideways, visit YRefi.com slash Ramsey today. That's the letter Y, R-E-F-Y dot com slash Ramsey. Not in all states. Today's question comes from Andrew in Michigan. I own a small business which has grown to 10 employees plus my wife and myself. One of our growing pains has been our manager who has been with us for two years.

1:15:23At times he shines and is excellent and proactive. Other times he does random things like borrowing small amounts from the tips, hiding small checking errors, and lying about dumb mistakes. We've had numerous conversations about these lapses in judgment. Should we fire him or give him one more chance? You know, again, I don't have enough details here to say why I would give him one more chance. It feels like we've had numerous conversations. And so numerous at this point, we've not seen any behavior change. And what's tough is, is that this is somebody who carries a lot of water. Sounds like he shines in a lot of areas, but in an area that is a legitimate red flag where you've talked to him multiple times and it's not changing.

1:16:12Yeah, I don't think one more chance is necessary unless you have not communicated that this is in fact now the last chance. We don't have this conversation ever again. This is a tough decision emotionally at times, but you have to separate the emotion from maybe your fears of what would happen if this person, a high performer, leaves. But ultimately, you've got to do what is right, and you've felt like this is a problem. You're right. This is a character issue, and it will turn into something bigger if you don't get rid of it.

1:16:45Dave Ramsey:Yeah. I mean, we coach a lot of restaurant folks in our small business program, Ontario Leadership. And I'm not a restaurant person, but my understanding is most restaurants, with what you're talking about here, at the end of the day, the tips are – some people either put them in a pool or they are – each server keeps their own tips for the night. But if they put them in a pool and split them up among the servers and the busboys or whatever, and then the manager is taking money out of that, he's stealing money from your other employees.

1:17:21uh that's not something you need to give grace to um there's not a single person that works in that restaurant that thinks this guy's awesome he's stealing from them and they know it

1:17:35Dave Ramsey:the servers are a lot of things but they carry heavy trays and they know where their tips went i can tell you that okay they work their butts off their feet hurt their back hurts when they go home they want to know where their tips went and my manager took my tips what do you do you can't really go back and go well my manager took my tips who are you going to confront uh yeah let me tell you everyone in the place is going to cheer when you fire this guy he's stealing their tips it's not real hard for me to figure out so i'm a little i'm not quite as easygoing as ken is on this um you don't have to be mean to him or anything but when someone has steals from the tips, hides small checking errors.

1:18:17Dave Ramsey:Is that code for embezzlement? What does hide small checking errors mean, really? Okay. Like he doesn't know how to do this stuff and lying about dumb mistakes. Yeah. Yeah. I think you have serious integrity issues with this individual and you've got him in leadership. And so. You've had enough. You've had enough conversations. I've had enough just reading this. He's gone. I'd fire him right now. I mean, I'd be nice about it, but we give people warnings around here, and we'll talk to them, help them change behaviors and do things. There's a couple things we don't, okay? Right. You know, one of them is you steal.

1:18:57Dave Ramsey:I don't really need to renovate. I mean, I don't need to spend time rehabbing a thief. That's what I need to work on because I've got to look over my shoulder all the time, and I'm giving them my money to work here. So, no, you're done. the day you know i just i just well i thought i would get put it back later you know what yeah you're just gone okay and the other one was you know we find you know somebody accidentally left a bag of cocaine and the you know what no no we don't have a second discussion about that you're just you know to start with there's a bag of cocaine and then there's accidental oh my god these two things don't go together you're gone i mean this is not we don't have we don't have a big we don't need a drug test we already got the drug it's okay get it you're gone And so it's just, no, I mean, that, you know, so we, but that stuff doesn't happen here because of how strenuous we are on hiring.

1:19:45Dave Ramsey:But that's the type of stuff that we would have a zero tolerance on. And because I don't need to discuss you if you don't have integrity. Now, if you're just not good at your job or you got a bad attitude or you're nasty to somebody, I can talk to you about that, give you a chance to change your ways. You know, we can coach you along and coach you up and give you a chance to stay. The problem is, and you pointed this out, is when you have 10 people, you are at the stage where we call it the second stage of business. The first stage is treadmill operator, and the next stage is pathfinder. And so when you are at the pathfinder stage, it's like herding cats.

1:20:27Dave Ramsey:You have 10 people. They're running in 10 different directions. Everything's not aligned. There's a lot of chaos. It can be that all of them are working hard. I had 10 people one time. I remember. I mean, it's like everybody's working hard, but they're running 10 different directions. Not a lot of alignment, not a lot of good strong cultural values in place and that kind of thing. And you do have this sense of if I fire a key person and I have 10 people, the whole place is going to shut down. Well, let me help you. Andrew in Michigan. The whole place is not going to shut down. Instead, they're going to cheer for Andrew in Michigan.

1:21:01Dave Ramsey:And they're going to go, Andrew, Andrew, Andrew, because the guy that stole our tips, Andrew got rid of them. Andrew is the man. I would charge the gates of hell with a water pistol for Andrew because he had my back. The guy that stole my tips, he fired him. That's what's going to happen. You're not going to cave. You're not going to fall in. You're going to be stronger. And the longer you do this, the more sure footage you'll be in your decision making on these things. And you'll make fewer and fewer mistakes on who I keep and who I give this to. But don't keep somebody because you think this place isn't going to run because of them.

1:21:39Dave Ramsey:Dude, he was never the secret sauce in the first place. You are the secret sauce. That's why you have a successful concern. But now you have to have a backbone and be a leader and fire a thief. Yeah, you've enabled it by just using the language borrowing. I thought that was interesting. He's borrowing tips. Here's what we know. if he's borrowing or stealing from his co-workers it's only a matter of time before he borrows or steals from you if he hasn't already 100 so that that's the thing yeah 100 chance his wife doesn't trust him all right peyton is in harrisburg pennsylvania hey peyton what's up hi how's it going better than i deserve how can i help so i kind of have a little bit of a math problem for you so just a little bit background about me i'm a chemical engineer so like i'm trying to figure out the best way that this makes sense to do.

1:22:27So I currently have gone from a job that was paying me$80 ,000 a year to a job that's paying me 104 a year plus commission. So I can get up to 40 to 60 grand of commission at the end of the year if I perform well in this job. And so my problem is, is that I'm working on your debt snowball method. So I'm in baby step number two. I cut down my expenses.

1:22:54Dave Ramsey:I'm a little short on time. Go straight to your question, honey. Yeah, so the straight-to-the-question point is that I'm going from a company that had a company car to not a car that you can get into this program. But the problem is that the car to be qualified for the program has to be a new car to four years in age under 50 ,000 miles and has to be a hybrid to qualify for the program. I'll pass. But they'll re - Okay. It's not a race. The amount of money they're going to give you will not cover the loss in value. Because you're driving an expensive car into the dirt because you're putting a lot of miles on it.

1:23:31Dave Ramsey:You're doing sales calls. Okay. So you're going to put so many miles on the car. You're going to take a$40 ,000 or a$50 ,000 car and you're going to make it worth$10 ,000 every year. And you cannot absorb that with the amount of money that they're offering you. That's why they don't do company cars. They trick you into taking the bite. It's a pay cut. It's not a benefit. Don't take it. Just drive whatever you want to drive and forget it. And drive something cheap because you're ruining whatever you drive.

1:24:21Dave Ramsey:Buying and selling a home is a big deal, and you want an expert in your corner fighting for you to get the right deal at the right price. That's why we only recommend Ramsey Trusted Real Estate Agents. They're hand-picked pros who know their stuff, listen to your needs, and have your back from the first call all the way to closing day. To find a Ramsey Trusted Agent near you, visit RamseySolutions.com slash agent. RamseySolutions.com slash agent.

1:25:05Dave Ramsey:Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. Ken Coleman, Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author and host of the show that is a runaway hit on Ramsey Networks. It's called Front Row Seat, where he does long-form interviews with highly successful and famous people to get the success principles from them that help you live a better life. You'll love it. Chuck is with us in Pittsburgh. Hey, Chuck, welcome to the show. How can we help? Thanks, Dave. Thanks for taking my call.

1:25:46Dave Ramsey:Sure. What's up? Hey, I've been following the baby steps for a decade, and thank you so much. It's been so good for my family. It's helped our marriage. It's just made putting three kids through college a lot simpler. Way to go. I'm proud of you. But my question was, oh, thank you. My question is for Ken. Ken, what are the baby steps for somebody that's looking to move out of a 32-year career into something that he can do into his twilight? Get clear is the first step. Second step is get qualified. Third step is get connected. Fourth is get started. Then we get promoted and ultimately into what we think is the dream job in this new path.

1:26:30So that's the quick answer. Do you know what you want to move into, or are you trying to figure that out? That's what I'm trying to figure out. Okay. Well, we've got a tool for you that'll make this a little easier on the phone. I'm going to give you the book, Find the Work You're Wired to Do. It's the Get Clear Career Assessment. And there's three wires that every human has. Talent is one wire. That's simply what you're really good at doing. And you're born with that. And then through education and experience, we hone that ball of clay of talent into sharpened skills or useful things, like a bowl or a cup.

1:27:07So talent is what we want to start with. And that gives us the clues as to where we can go. The next two wires, one is passion. And that just means what work do I love to do? I look forward to it. When I'm in the middle of it, I lose track of time. And then the third wire is all about motivation. And that's, we call it mission. In other words, what results do I want my work to create? What do I want to contribute to the world? So it looks like this in a simple sentence. If I use what I do best to do what I love to produce results that matter to me, I am in fact on purpose and I'm doing meaningful work and the money's going to be the best possible option because of those factors.

1:27:46So, you know, I'll put you on the spot. I'm going to give you that assessment and you take about 18 minutes. It's going to really read your mail. It'll make specific suggestions to you, but I want to boil the world of work down into four buckets. It's people work, idea work, process work, and object work. Object work would be something where I'm working with my hands. Maybe I'm a carpenter. Maybe I'm a plumber. And so in the world of work, where do you think your greatest talent is, knowing what you know about yourself being 56? What area of work? People work, idea work, process work, or object work?

1:28:25Definitely people work. That's been my whole life. Okay, great. Right. So if you allow yourself to wonder, and I know you have, and I'm putting you on the spot, not for you to be locked into this, but if you could go a direction tomorrow and you knew you couldn't fail and we just tried it for 90 days, what would you try tomorrow? Well, I've got a face for radio, Ken, so I'd have to say I did some radio 30 years ago at KDK in Pittsburgh a long time ago, but couldn't make it into a career, but I kind of miss it, you know? Okay. So you would be communicating. If we take radio out, you would be doing some type of work that's heavy communication, and that involves people, correct?

1:29:11Correct. And you like the pressure of communicating? That doesn't freak you out? You kind of enjoy it? A little bit of butterfly, but you really enjoy it? Love the deadlines. Okay. Go on, you know, hey, we're starting in 3-2-1, you know, that kind of thing. So let me ask you this. What do you make right now? What have you been doing, and what do you make? Well, I've been in sales for 32 years, and I've been blessed to be in over six digits. Okay, great. Now, this is what's great. 100 to 150, depending on the market. Okay, so here's what I know about you. So you're a very good communicator because you've been very successful in sales, and a good salesperson knows how to truly communicate, not just talk, but read people, listen for what's below the...

1:29:53So you've got a lot of experience here. Now, I'm going to be very honest with you. Radio is not an industry where there's a ton of opportunity because of the nature of podcasting and YouTube and the culture's listening habits. There's just not a whole lot of radio opportunity. So then you go, OK, what is it that I love about the radio piece? And it's I like communicating something that I believe will help people. Is that a fair high level statement? Yeah. Yeah. OK, great. Right. So as you begin to take the assessment, you get your results, you're going to start to ideate. And here's three questions that you will answer.

1:30:28And if you've got something to write with, write them down. If not, go back and listen to this. Three very simple questions that will bring you an idea or two or five. Who are the people I most want to help? What problem or desire do they have? and then what solutions, plural, to the problem or desire that I just outlined, do I most get excited about? What you're going to find if you wrestle with that day in and day out, your mind and heart will start to come together and you'll begin to throw things out. And so you are going to communicate. It's people work. We know it's people, people, people.

1:31:05There might be a little bit of idea work involved here. and so if you can begin to figure out who are those people I want to help at this stage of my life and what problem or desire is is jumping out at me and then how does the marketplace address that with my skill set and so that's the exercise for you in the days ahead but the assessment that we're going to give you is going to give you a very detailed report I want you to read it and I want you to then answer those three questions and what you're going to find is you'll see multiple opportunities that you never saw before but you got to be able to understand

1:31:39Dave Ramsey:what it is that i'm looking for and i want you to pan back further than just the two things sales and radio yes okay those were those were very nuanced possible uses of everything ken's talking about and there's a lot of different ways to do what you're doing um and i'll just the you know i'll give you an example of that i was being interviewed the other day by a trade publication in the broadcast world and they said how has ramsey um prospered and survived um you know satellite radio the internet coming on with podcasts now used to be streaming in the old days and um and now with the advent of you know the power of youtube as our shows and what What I said was, and what I want you to think this way is, we are platform agnostic.

1:32:32Dave Ramsey:We don't care where, what medium or media this message goes out on. If it goes out on Instagram or Tic Tac or anything, we don't care. It's fine. We're fine with any of it. Okay. But if I said instead, I'm a talk radio guy. I'm not doing podcast. and I'm not going to be on YouTube. That's for cats chasing lasers and Tic Tacs owned by the communists. I'm not doing that. If I said that, which I'm kind of tempted to at times, okay, if I said that and I held myself to being only a talk radio guy, I would have 8 million listeners a week instead of 40. So that would be stupid, narrow-minded of me to focus on one thing.

1:33:19Dave Ramsey:Instead, I'm saying how many different ways in a huge buffet can we apply the delivery of this message? In your case, their message is your talent. How can I put myself out there? How many different ways can I put myself out there? Be platform agnostic. Hang on, we're going to send you a copy of both books, one that has The Clear Path, that's Paycheck to Purpose, and The Assessment as well.

1:33:51Dave Ramsey:We've all done dumb things with money. I've done them with zeros on the end. One of the biggest mistakes I see people make with money is not having a plan for it. You've got to have a plan. You've got to be intentional and you need to get a budget. You have to tell your money where to go so you're not wondering where it went. Our budgeting app, EveryDollar, helps you do just that. It's the easiest and fastest way to make a monthly plan for every dollar you've got coming in and going out. Now's the best time to get started before the ridiculous holiday spending season gets here and sucks you in because you didn't have a plan.

1:34:24Dave Ramsey:Don't let that happen. You're done making that mistake. Go download Every Dollar for free in the App Store or Google Play today.

1:34:45Dave Ramsey:Buying or selling a home these days with all the drama is a big deal. And the clickbait headlines, all the garbage that's out there on social media, and all the broke friends that have an opinion about you buying a house. Let me help you with the drama. How you cut through drama? Facts. When drama or trauma is occurring, facts are your friends. Facts will talk you off the ledge. Facts will take you and put you in a cold shower and get you over a buying fever. Facts will tell you, this is what I need to do, and this is a smart thing to do. Facts are facts. And you need some facts in the middle of all this.

1:35:19Dave Ramsey:So what we've done is we've built out a full website called the U.S. Housing Market Trends. And you can jump on there any day and see what exactly is happening with the real estate world. And like, for instance, the 15-year fixed rate is still steady at 5.95. just under 6%. That's a fact. Hadn't moved in a while, by the way. That is also a fact. The median house price is still$441 ,000 in America today. It has gone up a little bit every month. The inventory right now is 1 ,082 ,520 homes on the market today. and that's the highest inventory rate since 2019. However, demand is higher than it has been, and so that is why house prices have not dropped.

1:36:13Dave Ramsey:High interest rates, high inventory would normally mean you'd see house prices come down. It has not happened because demand is higher than inventory. When demand is higher than supply, economics tells us prices go up. When more people want a beanie baby than there are beanie babies, the price of beanie babies go up. That's how it works, okay? Some of you are old enough to get the reference. Some of you weren't born yet, but there we go. So anyway, that's the thing. Go to RamseySolutions.com slash market, and we'll catch you up to date. Andrew's with us in New York. Hi, Andrew. Welcome to the show.

1:36:45Dave Ramsey:How can we help? Hi, Dave and Ken. It's really cool to talk to you guys. I've been a big fan for years. Well, thank you. What's up? So I have a situation that I've been discussing with my dad and my sister, and I thought it might be something you have some suggestions on. My dad set up a college savings account, 529 accounts, for my twins who were born in 2010. These were his first grandchildren. He was working at the time, so he was able to fund the accounts for a few years. They've grown to a total of about$100 ,000, half of which he estimates he contributed. Wow. He stopped working shortly after that and was unable to start additional counts later when I had additional children and my sister had a child.

1:37:35He hadn't really thought about them since, but now a question of fairness has arisen, at least between my sister and me. He only recently learned from an elder care attorney that accounts like this can be shared or split among other children. And he's now wondering if he should draw from his limited retirement savings to start an account for my sister's child or portion off some of the savings from the twins accounts. I know that it's his money to do with as he pleases, and I'd want my nephew to receive something as well. So how much does your dad have in retirement? I don't know exactly how much he has, but he has enough that he's...

1:38:22Dave Ramsey:Well, I mean, what? $300 ,000,$5 million. What's he got in there? No, I think something like$300 ,000 or$400 ,000. Okay, cool. And is your mom gone? They are separated. They're separated. Divorced. Divorced. Okay, all right. And he is now retired. How old is he? He's 77. Okay. What's he seeing an elder care attorney about? He was looking into protecting the house in case something happened to him and he needed to go into care or something. Okay. That's a waste of money, by the way. Okay. I can help you with that. We could use that money to fund the kids' college. Okay. So I'm not against some elder care situations, but here's the situation.

1:39:11Dave Ramsey:There's only two kinds of nursing homes. Ones you pay for are ones you go into when you're on welfare. Welfare is Medicaid. It's for poor people. Your dad's not poor people. Okay. He needs to quit trying to hide assets using an elder care attorney so he can go on welfare. You don't want him and he doesn't want to be in a welfare Medicaid nursing home. not if I got 300 grand in the bank, that ain't where I'm staying. Okay? Okay. You know, if I got 300 grand in the bank, I don't want to live in subsidized housing, okay? Okay. You catching on my drift here? That's where this guy's leading him, and he doesn't need to be leading him this way.

1:39:57Dave Ramsey:It's a bad plan. His house is not protected. It's protected only if he goes on welfare. Okay. And so don't try to design a life so that you can go on welfare after working your whole life and you got$300K. That does enter, it's a sidebar, but it's not because that leaves you then in a situation so that these kids, how old is your sister's kid? He's seven. Okay. So he's got time for money to grow and my twins are 15. So your dad's$300K is invested? Yes. And here's what I would do if I were your dad. Okay, I'm 64, 65 almost. Okay, here's what I would do if I were him. If he doesn't live until these kids go to college, 10 years, okay, if he lives to 87, we'll do something different.

1:40:56Dave Ramsey:But if he doesn't live, leave enough specifically in the will for the three kids, yours and there's only two kids. Your one kid didn't get money, and your sister's one kid didn't get money, right? I have two additional. Okay, so leave enough in the will for your two that were not the twins that have zero, the sister's kid who doesn't have anything that has zero, to play catch-up and leave the twins out of that portion of the will. So make it right upon death, and then split up whatever's left between you and your sister, okay? But he can make it right upon death. In the meantime, he's got$300K growing, and it'll be$600K if he leaves it alone, in seven more years, and it's in good mutual funds.

1:41:40Dave Ramsey:Okay, so it'll be plenty of money to send these kids to school. That's if he dies before they go to school. How old are your two that we're talking about that don't have money? The younger? That don't have money. Thirteen and seven. Thirteen? Yes, thirteen and seven. Okay, so seven years if he doesn't die. If he dies, any time the next seven years, the 13-year-old gets made whole, and the seven-year-old gets made whole. The twins are obviously older than 13, and then your sister's seven-year-old gets made whole upon death. That's what I would do if I were him in my will. Then if he doesn't die, when they get ready to go to college, I'm just going to write checks.

1:42:24Dave Ramsey:Okay. Simple. I don't have to fund a 529. I'll just write checks out of my wealth until I equal and do a little math and you figure out, you know, what is equal at that point. But we've got at least five years, four years, five years before yours is in school and, you know, up to ten before the other two are in school, and then he's going to be writing some checks out of his then half million or whatever. And, you know, if he puts in some similar amount plus growth, because he got the growth, okay? If he gives you$25 ,000 today instead of 10 years from now, he's going to get all the growth on the$25 ,000.

1:43:06Dave Ramsey:Let's call that$50 ,000, okay? So he could put in$50 ,000 for a future kid, and it'd be the same as$25 ,000 was back then. You follow me? Yes, yes. So just have his financial planner, not his elder lawyer, do the calculation. And just run that out and go, okay, if I'm alive, I'm going to take care of the 13-year-old to this equation because that equals$25 ,000. back then. Okay. And how old are the twins, by the way? They're 15. Okay. All right. So, and then they get nothing. They've already got theirs in either scenario. Unless he wants to leave the overage above college to the kids and not to you and your sister.

1:43:47Dave Ramsey:But otherwise, the twins don't get any more. They've already gotten theirs. And so just lay it all out like that, and that'll be fine. Ken, I'm glad you had input on that. Well, I was going to say, Dave, you had several holes there that I was going to fill, and then you just tied it all up there at the end. So I don't have anything to add. Sorry about that.

1:44:37Dave Ramsey:It's way too easy to put off making a will. And believe me, I've heard every excuse in the book. But not having the time is one excuse we can kick to the curb right now. Because these days, most folks can make a legally binding will on their laptop between loads of laundry. If you're wondering if you can make your will online or if you need a lawyer, we have a quiz to help you figure that out in less than five minutes. Just go to RamseySolutions.com slash will's quiz. RamseySolutions.com slash will's quiz.

1:45:31Dave Ramsey:In the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on the Debt Free stage, Michael and Rosalie are with us. Hey, guys, how are you? Good. How are you? Better than I deserve. Wonderful. Welcome. Where do you guys live? Buffalo, New York. Oh, cool. Welcome to Nashville. Thank you. And how much debt have you two paid off? About$70 ,000. Awesome. And how long did that take you? Just over five years. Good for you. and your range of income during that time 100 to 150 okay all right and what kind of debt was the 70 well to borrow your phrase the paid off for mortgage has taken the place of the bmw as our status symbol of choice i got a paid four hours baby i love it congratulations well done very well done what do y 'all do for a living so rosalie was an interior design and now has the hardest of jobs a stay-at-home mom and i'm in financial analysis and a side business as a financial coach and a special thank you to your your team and unbelievably talented team of ramsey coaches you have oh well thank you thank you appreciate you being here very cool how's it feel guys to have the house paid off feels really good amazing i bet that's amazing so what a goal and five years so you you got everything else paid off and then you work just the slow plan work four five and like you're supposed to.

1:46:47Dave Ramsey:Yep. And paid off the house gradually. How old are you? I'm 36. 44. And a paid for house. What's the house worth? About, we bought it for about 200. It's worth about 300 now. All right. Very cool. Good for you guys. And how much have you guys built up in your nest eggs and your retirement and so forth? We'd rather not say, but in the last five years, since we worked the plan between investing more and the market growth, it's over doubled in that five years. All right. Well, very good. Good. So it smells like maybe your baby steps millionaires already. I'm proud of you. I'm just going to go with that.

1:47:18Dave Ramsey:I'm going to pretend like I know that. Way to go, y 'all. I'm proud of you. Thank you. At 36 and 44 years old. So give us your perspective on why after getting out of debt and walking through the baby steps, you went, all right, yeah, let's go ahead and let's keep on going. Let's keep being disciplined and let's pay the house off. Why for somebody who's wondering, what's the reason for that? What is your why? Yeah. So we entered marriage completely debt-free. We had debt before marriage, but we entered it debt-free. But I stumbled across the Ramsey show back in 2020 and started watching YouTube highlights and watching the show.

1:47:53And so Dave, I'm a - Start driving Rosalie crazy. Probably, yes. I have an accounting degree and a CPA license. So of course, when it comes to personal finance, before finding your show, I knew almost nothing. So my parents did teach me to live on less than you make. So I followed that and married well because Rosalie lived on less than she made also. But quickly from watching your show, I realized there were a lot of blind spots and a lot of things were missing. We were not saving 15 % for retirement. We were tracking our expenses instead of budgeting, and there's a huge difference between those two.

1:48:24We had James, our son, and our daughter Lillian was on the way. We didn't have a will. We didn't have life insurance. So there were just a lot of blind spots we were missing. So we had a good foundation, but Finding Your Show developed an actual process that we could follow.

1:48:37Dave Ramsey:Yeah. And when you check all those boxes, the weird thing is the result is peace. Absolutely. Yeah, you can just relax. House is paid for. We've got retirement. We've got a will. We've got life insurance. We're rocking. You've got the system down. You get in the groove, and there's a chance that you can just breathe then. And it really is financial peace, two words that don't go together, like airline service. It's like, yeah, pretty cool, guys. I'm so proud of y 'all. Thank you. What do you tell people the key to getting out of debt is? Well, so it's working together. It's communicating. It's the budget.

1:49:14It's being intentional. All of those things are very, very critical. I know for us with having kids, that's our main motivation is our kids, our generational wealth, setting them up for life.

1:49:26Dave Ramsey:Yeah. That's our huge driver. So, I mean, for us with kids, that's what we focus on, too. Yeah, it's your why. It's your driver, yeah. You've got to have that. because the other stuff is too weird to do if you don't have a real reason. Absolutely. Yeah, we decided to attack steps five and six, obviously doing step four too, but five and six aggressively to get them both done. So we front-loaded their 529 accounts. So before they even got into kindergarten, they're all set with their 529s that what grows should cover at least a public university, and then they can decide from there if they're going to work or get scholarships for anything beyond that.

1:49:58But they'll get that by not taking on any college debt. So that was our goal, that we can get them to have no debt other than a mortgage for their entire lives. That this is going to be their last recollection of debt is being on the debt-free stage here.

1:50:09Dave Ramsey:So you guys have been married how long? Almost eight years this October. Okay. And you started on the house five years ago. So it sounds like you started very early in the marriage on this whole thing. Yeah, we bought the house right as we got married. So it was a total of under eight years that we paid the house off. It was five years since we got very serious on the Ramsey plan. Yeah. Yeah. So, Rosalie, when you first met Michael or when he first started talking about all this stuff, did he drive you crazy with it? I'm used to it because this is kind of his background. He's into finances and this is, you know, this is his passion.

1:50:41And, you know, this is kind of his wheelhouse. So this wasn't anything new for me. And I wasn't surprised when he found you and brought all this up and wanted to, you know, go on this planet and attack it. I was right with him because, like I said, the kids and everything. I know I drive him crazy because with being in an interior design background, I'm always looking at stuff around the house. So that drives him crazy. So we always have to communicate about things that, you know, I might want to do to the house or, you know, what's going on. Communication is big. So I wasn't surprised.

1:51:13Dave Ramsey:And now you can. Now you can do whatever you want to do. Well, don't tell him that. Well, maybe I need to. I don't know. So what does live and give like no one else look like for you guys going forward? Have you began to dream and discuss what that could look like? 100%. Honestly, on the car ride over down here, we were definitely talking about how we can now give and how we can be more generous with our giving and to our church and things like that. That's definitely been a conversation more and more and more now that we don't have the mortgage hanging over our head. What's the big nice thing you're going to do for yourselves?

1:51:52I don't know. We don't have an answer to that one. I think, you know, I live like no one else.

1:51:57Dave Ramsey:Later you can live like no one else. I don't know if we have an answer to that one. You know, we're still trying to get our cars through two more winters. So and there are 13 and 11. So I think you need some cars. Time to get some cars. Don't have any house payment. Don't have any debt. Yeah. Just, you know, now you can breathe a little. You know, I mean, it's it's good to do that. And and that won't be wasteful and that won't be irresponsible or anything else. And so it's actually why you did all of this, that and those two beautiful kiddos. So very, very cool. All right, bring them up. Let's meet them and names and ages.

1:52:30Dave Ramsey:Come on up, kiddos. Do we have time for a quick story? Sure. So very appropriate, Ken, that you're on the show today. So I called you five years ago debating whether I should take financial coach master training as our daughter was on the way. And I asked you, I said, is this a good thing to do? And you kept saying, ask your wife. And I said, well, I've already done that. I'm calling the expert. But right before we got off the call, you gave me two words. You said, do something. And those two words were huge, and they're huge for everybody in finances, in faith, in fitness, whatever it might be.

1:52:58And then on the way here, we stopped at a rest stop in Kentucky, and I saw a U.S. Army veteran on his jacket. And I said to him, thank you for your service, and these are the true heroes. And his response was, you're worth it. And so I just want to combine those two thoughts today. Do something because you're worth it and because your family's worth it. So combine those two thoughts for all your listeners today. I think that's a really important message to hear.

1:53:20Dave Ramsey:Amen. Cool. Thanks for sharing that. That's fun. Good stuff. All right. Kiddos, names, and ages again? James is six, and Lillian is four. All right, guys. You look like you've been practicing a debt-free scream. I think you're ready. All right. Michael and Rosalie, James and Lillian,$70 ,000 paid off in five years. House and everything, making$1 to$150. Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream. Three, two, one. We're debt-free. They are into it. Yeah. Those kids are completely changed. Their lives were changed before they were born, and they didn't even know it. Pretty incredible. This is what happens when you change your family tree, and at 36 and 44, you put yourself in a position of Baby Steps Millionaire.

1:54:10Dave Ramsey:You've got your house paid off, everything. and you make it$100.5 and you can do anything you want to then the rest of your life. You've got the thumb of society off of your neck. You don't have Citibank anywhere in your vocabulary. Oh, God, that's good to be rid of. You don't have American excess anywhere in your vocabulary. That's good to be rid of. Wow, way to go, guys. What a great power couple. Excellent.

1:54:49Thank you.

1:55:17Thank you.

1:55:47Dave Ramsey:For a nation to try to tax itself into prosperity is like a man standing in a bucket and trying to lift himself up by the handle. Yeah. And another famous English leader, Margaret Thatcher, said socialism is fine until you run out of other people's money. Yeah, agreed. Yeah, that's a problem. Math thing. That's a math thing. Reggie's in Cleveland, Ohio. Hey, Reggie, what's up? Hey, Dave. Pleasure talking to you guys. You too. How can we help? I actually came across your course about 13 years ago in high school, and I was lucky enough to take it. And I've been an avid listener ever since. Oh, thank you.

1:56:27It's been quite life-changing. Thank you. Of course. So kind of my dilemma is I own two bakeries, and I co-own one of them. And one of them had to close briefly here due to the lack of employees. And the other one is quite successful. And in, you know, 2027, we're forecasting a million plus. So my question is, given my full time employment and other businesses I have on the side, is it a smart idea to try to pump a little more money into that other bakery just to make some rudimentary upgrades, changes, you know, new stuff, just to kind of try to revive that and gain back the trust in the community?

1:57:15So a couple of questions here before we dive in. Is the one that's struggling that you had to temporarily shut down, is that the one you co-own or the one that you're the sole owner? Sole owner. Okay. And you said to us that the problem you identified was not being able to get employees. And so then you presented another solution. So what is the big problem? Well, the problem is, was the lack. It's an underdeveloped area, and it's being developed as we speak in terms of about 1 ,000 houses within four square miles.

1:57:50Dave Ramsey:So it took me about eight months to really turn that. By underdeveloped, you mean it was a bad neighborhood that's coming back? Rural. Oh, it's rural. I'm sorry. Okay. No, I just didn't understand. That's my fault. Okay. Yeah. All right. So it's way out of town, but town has come to it. Correct. It's kind of the city is creeping out there to it. Correct. And can you hold on long enough for the city to get there? Well, that's my concern because I would be paying like I'm paying now currently out of my career salary, you know, to keep everything open and getting the rent paid and stuff to that effect.

1:58:33All right. So you said you're temporary. So you temporarily shut it down. My question then is, can you keep it shut down until the market gets to the point that it needs to? In other words, can you ramp it back up at a later date?

1:58:51I really have a bad feeling about borrowing money. I'm 100 %... I wasn't asking you about that. No, no, no, no. That wasn't a part of the scenario.

1:58:58Dave Ramsey:He just said, if you don't reopen it, what are your costs, and can you maintain those easier than you can maintain feeding it? Yeah. I would not be able to long term. Okay. So what is the profit on the million dollars back home at the other bakery? On the million dollars on it, what's your net profit? So on the million dollars that we're forecasting in the next year, profit will be about$250. Okay, which is split two ways. And you have a full-time job on top of this? That is correct. And you make what at your full-time job? so i am a pipe setter is a penis and this is my last year so right now i'm sitting at about 70 and you'll go to what after you finish it'll go what it'll it'll go to about 95 okay all right and that's without any overtime and does your does your wife work outside the home sir i am not married you're not married okay that's easy okay all right so let's just reverse engineer or the other bakery that you singularly own.

1:59:59Dave Ramsey:The point is you got to the party early and there's no people. That's what you told me, right? You built out on the edge of a growth ring and you thought it was going to happen faster or that the current people there were going to be able to support you and they're not able to. There's not enough population currently to support the business, I think you said. Mm-hmm. Well, there is, but the problem is it's not going to be supported staff-wise. I mean, I have people that pop up here and there, but I think my core demographic of people that I'm waiting on is still up and coming. As workers, not as customers.

2:00:41If you had it fully staffed, would it be profitable?

2:00:47Dave Ramsey:Yes, sir. Okay, so staffing is your problem, not renovation. Correct. So no, I'm not going to spend money renovating it until I get it staffed. Why wouldn't you just spend all of your effort staffing it or close it, one of the two? Correct, yes, sir. It is between the population that's growing and the actual staffing problem itself. It does cost a, I'm going to like to do that. I mean, I've sustained it short term, but the only problem is to really be in the green. One population would need to increase the customer base. It would be... You've talked yourself into closing it. Every sentence you've said has told me that.

2:01:32And I think that's obvious. There's not a simple solution to your staffing problem.

2:01:36Dave Ramsey:But you're done. Every sentence you bring up is negative about closing it. You've lost hope that it's going to work. So it's done. You need to close it. Yeah. Okay. And you know more about it than I do. You don't even realize it, but you're telegraphing everything, and every sentence you're using is all about how it can't be done. It can't be done. I'm just too early. There's this problem, that problem. And you've given up hope that the problems can be solved in time before you go broke doing it. And so I wouldn't want to stress. I'd just close it. Have you got a lease? It is a lease, yes. How long?

2:02:10Dave Ramsey:That runs out in January. Oh, praise God. Okay. So you own all the equipment? yes sir debt free great put it in the garage so all you got is a lease until January and you're out of business that's awesomeness and next time you get ready to start now you'll be wiser when you open your next one someday you'll know that the staffing as well as the customer base has to be there before you can open it and the location cannot be a risk the location has to be a no brainer you took a risk location on a business that location is everything. Absolutely. Yeah, anything in food service world, location, location, and location.

2:02:55I was a little early to the party.

2:02:57Dave Ramsey:Yeah, you were. You got there before the people did. I'm sorry, man. So hopefully you haven't lost a lot. I've learned a lot. Here's what Ken and I both were doing, listening to you. we use Henry Cloud's book and Henry's a friend but we've been using this book for a long long time called Necessary Endings when you lose hope with all logic and sound wisdom that something is going to get better it needs to end and that is a relationship it's a job it's a marriage it's a business it's an investment when you lose hope that it's going to get better, then it requires a painful and emotional necessary ending.

2:03:46Dave Ramsey:Yeah. And Reggie, in this case, really, really proud of you for doing this debt-free. I love that you've been working on a trade. You've been apprenticing. You're about ready to see tremendous increase financially. You're making money in the other one. So you learned a lesson here. This is one of those, our dear friend, John Maxwell wrote a book years ago called Failing forward. Then he retitled it. Sometimes you win. Sometimes you learn. And most people say lose. And in this case, I want to encourage you. You learned here. You didn't lose. You learned something. You're going to come out of this thing without being in big time financial trouble.

2:04:23Chalk this up to great experience. I learned a lot here. But man, I've set myself up beautifully for the future. So I applaud you for being debt free and being really smart here. Even though you made a mistake here. This is not something to be ashamed of.

2:04:37Dave Ramsey:It was an experiment. That's right. Yeah. It's not a failure. It's an experiment. Yeah. And the way you learn from experiments is you fail and you form a new hypothesis. Then you experiment again. Game on. Welcome to business. That puts us, our The Ramsey Show, in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus. Thank you.