Stop Starting Over and Break the Cycle for Good

22:28Rachel Cruze:If you go to RamseySolutions.com slash SmartVestor to find an investing pro near you, or if you're listening on YouTube or podcasts, make sure to click the link in the description. All right, let's head to Jordan in San Diego. Hi, Jordan. Welcome to the show. Hello, how are you guys doing today? Hi, we're doing great. How can we help? I'm doing great. So my name is Jordan. I'm from San Diego, California. I'm 24 years old and my current income is about$120 ,000 a year. The reason I'm calling you guys today is it feels like my entire life people have always told me, go to college, get a good job, make a lot of money, and everything else will follow.

23:07So I think I've done a pretty good job at getting to that point now. But it seems like the more time goes on and the more money I make, the life I always imagine myself having keeps going further and further out of reach. The reason I say that is, as I said, I live in Southern California, in San Diego. I look for houses in San Diego, too far out of my reach. I make a broader circle and I go further. and no matter how far I go, it still feels like houses, a mortgage is going to cost me around $3 ,500 to$4 ,000 a month, which with my income doesn't sound so bad, but I think I've finished most of the steps I want to in life.

23:46And the next thing I want to do is start a family and have kids and focus on that. And it just feels so out of reach for me to keep contributing to my savings accounts to pay off a mortgage, to be able to support my wife while she stays home, and to take care of kids and make sure that they have some sort of support going to school. And I don't really know if I'm doing something wrong, or if there's something I could do differently. Here's what you've done wrong, Jordan. You've assumed that you have five years left to live, and that you must accomplish all of this in the next five years or else.

24:18So all you need is patience. You're doing so well at 24, far better than I was. And yes, you have a high cost living area, but there's no rule book that says if you don't own a house in San Diego by 25, you screwed it up, man. And so release yourself from the guilt and from the lies that you were told that if you just do all of these things, your life's going to be great. Those people meant well for you, but they don't live your life. And so I would just be very patient, go, you're crushing it. Let's learn to live on less than we make, put money in savings, and then do this for the next six years and then call us and see where you're at.

24:55Okay. I appreciate that. Something I did want to ask. I'm currently putting money into my work, TSP. I work for the government, so we have a savings plan. I put money into my personal investment account that I'm saving. And I feel like, obviously, I'm extremely grateful for the job that I have, and I know a lot of people are in a much worse situation than me. But I feel like there's a lot of things I don't do because I'm just so addicted to saving my money. I'm so afraid of bad debt. Do you have any debt? I have a$7 ,000 remaining on my car note. Okay. So other than that, everything else I just paid off.

25:33Yeah, I just paid off. I think it's$290 a month, and it's easier for me to just pay it off. How much do you have in savings? I currently have in my individual investment account, I have around$20 ,000 in savings. Liquid cash in my savings account, I have$5 ,000. And then I have personal Roth IRA with$25 ,000. And then, like I said, my TSP has another 25 in it. Great. Well, you're doing great on the investment side. I would just have some focus with your financial goals. And right now, my singular focus would be getting out of debt. The next focus is to have a liquid emergency fund of three to six months of expenses.

26:07And as a young single guy, this is also the best time because you have no other responsibilities, no one else to answer to. It's just you and your own goals. So you can actually make a lot of traction right now until you meet that wonderful person, start a family. Maybe they'll be working too. Your income is going to grow over that time. And so all you're seeing right now is this little tiny snapshot of your life right now. And then you see these very big goals far away. And I think you're closer than you realize.

26:35Rachel Cruze:Yeah, and I don't think you're comparing your life to reality either, Jordan. So you either have expectations that you should be – where you should be at 34 and you're 24. Yeah. or you were seeing people on social media or your friends are talking, whatever it is and what's being painted in front of you is probably not the full picture either. And so if you are in your early 20s making six figures, no debt. So I'm going to count that for you because I want you to pay off your car tonight with some of the savings. Just be done with the car. And you have cash saved, you have investments. Everything that you're doing, you are doing it well.

27:13Rachel Cruze:and the hard thing about building wealth the right way is that it takes time and patience it's not going to be as flashy as the people you see on tiktok that are like i bought 18 vrbo's and or verbo whatever they call or you know airbnbs and like you know what i mean like you're gonna see and i make one million a month they're like what all the crazy stuff you see majority of the time number one is not even true or number two they've built their entire financial life on a house of cards. So slow and steady wins the race. And it's not going to be flashy. It's not going to be exciting, but it is going to be solid.

27:46Rachel Cruze:And it's going to be all yours because you're not going to be borrowing money to do any wealth building. It's going to be you actually making decisions about your life. And so that's what I would encourage you, that I think what you're wanting is not bad or wrong, but I think feeling like a failure because you don't have it right now, to George's point at 24, we just want to be like, Jordan, you're good. You're doing great. You're doing great. I think one of the reasons I'm so overwhelmed now is because I have, happy to say, I've already met the love of my life. We're talking about marriage. Oh, great.

28:18Talking about kids. Yes. Sure. I don't have a ring. I don't have a wedding. I don't have a honeymoon, which is obviously, I'm not planning on spending any extravagant. I'm out on it, right? I can't imagine bringing kids into the world until I feel ready,

28:31Rachel Cruze:which the feeling of being ready You'll never feel ready. I still don't feel ready. Not emotionally, not financially. The best thing you can do is be debt-free with an emergency fund and be aligned with your spouse on your goals financially, spiritually, all of that. That's the best thing you can do to be ready. Other than that, don't wait until you have a certain amount in your investment account to have a kid. No. And go ahead and get married, Jordan. If you guys know, do it. What's holding you back right now? Is it finances? I'm so afraid of not having money How did you grow up Jordan? I grew up so my dad is the hardest working guy I know He doesn't have a retirement He doesn't have anything That's your fear That's another thing That's your fear And I'm just yeah I'm so worried Yeah Like I want I love my dad But I want the opposite of that Yes I want the idea where I know The bills are gonna get paid That's why I love my job Everyone talks about owning a business I love having a union I love having a stable paycheck.

29:30I love having investments made into my account automatically. And there's no other way to rather do it. There's just the idea of me, like you're telling me to pay off the$7 ,000, right? Which I know is a great idea. The idea of me losing$7 ,000 in cash and it goes into my car. I know it's a good idea, but it feels wrong because in my head, if I don't save, I feel like I'm failing.

29:54Rachel Cruze:Right, because at that point, from where your psychology is, is that saving is the only thing you should do with money. And out of good reason, because you're looking at your parents and like, holy crap, they have nothing. They're not going to, they work so hard, but now they have nothing to show for it at retirement. But here's the deal, Jordan. There's two other parts of money that you have to engage in to have a holistic, healthy financial picture. Giving and spending. Okay? Okay, so you may go through seasons where you're going to be saving more. Maybe you and your soon-to-be fiance, soon-to-be wife, you're saving up for that down payment on a home, and you guys are really like, hey, we're going to pull back on lifestyle to really get that down payment.

30:35Rachel Cruze:That's great. But over the course of your life, Jordan, if you have this mentality the rest of your life, that's where money can become an idol. You will hold on to it so tightly and have this sense of security that this is going to be your answer. and then you're going to look up and realize, oh my gosh, I have wasted my whole life because fear has driven my financial decisions. Not a healthy balance of all of this. I think the budget is your answer. Budget for the fun stuff, budget for some giving, and budget for the saving. And realize I'm young. I got a lot of time on my hands. You're doing so good.

31:08Rachel Cruze:And Jordan, go on RamseySolutions.com and pull up the investment calculator and put in what you have right now with investments at 24. And just do the math. If you never put another dime in, what you'll have at retirement. 40 years from now, you're going to be doing great. Even where you are now, you're doing great, Jordan. So chill, relax, enjoy the ride.

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33:16Rachel Cruze:Well, George, when it comes to investing, we were talking about just the previous segment of how powerful time is. And even if you just do the boring stuff, time is on your side. So the earlier you can start, the better off you're going to be. Yeah. And the first milestones are really hard. And then it's like a hockey stick with compound growth. So getting to that first hundred thousand invested is such a marathon. And then from a million to two million, you sort of blink and you're there if you do it the right way. So I want to take Jordan's numbers who was on the call with us. He made 120 grand a year and he felt like it just wasn't enough.

33:53He was behind, he can't accomplish his goals. So he was like hoarding money to invest and couldn't enjoy any of it. And I just wanted to show the audience at home, even if he never invested another dime, where his investments would be to help with the scarcity mindset that he was experiencing. So he's currently 24. We're going to pull up the screen here if you're watching on YouTube or Spotify or the Ramsey Network app. So 24 years old, let's go to 64. So it's a 40 year career. And he currently has, he said 25K in a Roth, 25K in the TSP. So we'll call that 50K. And he's never going to add another dime.

34:28So how much will you contribute monthly? Zero. And I'm using the Ramsey Investment Calculator. We'll put a link in the show notes to plug your own numbers in. Annual return, I'm going to go with 10%. Now, since 1950, the S &P 500, which is the top 500 companies in America, have returned about 11.8%. So 10 % is very realistic.

34:46Rachel Cruze:Let's do both. Let's do both. We'll go conservative 10. And then Rachel will be the optimist, glass half full. Always more. All right. I'm going to hit calculate$2.68 million at 64. If he never adds a dime. Basically 2.7. See if you're rounding up again. Now at 12%, you're looking at$5.9 million. That's pretty wild. $6 million, Jordan. That 2 % over 40 years really adds to it. I hope he hears this. But let's go back and let's say - You never do another thing. Isn't that wild? Never do another thing. That's compound growth. And look, the contributions, he didn't contribute anything but the 50. and it turned into that just by leaving it alone.

35:22Rachel Cruze:So if you could imagine continuing to invest 15 % of your income. 15 % of his 120 grand, that's$1 ,500 a month from 24 to 64. Let's see what happens if he continues this. Oh my gosh. $12 million at 10 % rate of return, Jordan. There you go, Jordan. So if, and that's if you never get a raise and your spouse never works. That's right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's a good point. So let us free you. Yeah. Enjoy some of the money because you're going to get to 12 million and go, should have went on a vacation probably. That probably would have been a good idea. I got a lot of money now and don't have enough time to spend it.

35:54Rachel Cruze:Some furniture that we actually enjoy and want to pick out. You know what I mean? It's okay. Well, that's what happens. We talk about this book, Die With Zero, which we don't agree with everything in the book. But the concept is do not wait until you're 70 or 80 or at the point where you pass away to then hand your kids a million bucks when they don't need it in their 60s. That's right. That's right. Use it. Enjoy it while you're alive. And even giving them some too, right? But while you're alive, actually be engaged to your money. Give people like Jordan a leg up to be able to buy a house in San Diego at 24.

36:23I know. If you're that boomer. That's right. There you go. Some encouragement that you don't have to retire broke. And the younger you are, the more every dollar counts. Yes. Because it has more time for compound growth. We hear that all the time.

36:34Rachel Cruze:People are like, why did I not start this earlier? Why did I not get out of debt? You know what I mean? Start the whole babysit process earlier. Why didn't I start when I was four years old? I would have had an extra 20 years. Not George. But that's the idea. The best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago. The next best time is today. Start where you are. We all wish we could have started earlier. That's right. All right, let's go to Oklahoma City, and we have Lindsey on the line. Hi, Lindsey. Welcome to the show. Hi. How are you guys? Hi, we're doing great. How can we help today? Yeah, I had a question.

37:06I have a credit collection services bill in the amount of$1 ,035. And I'm about$70 ,000 in debt or$77 ,000 in debt. And I was just curious. I tried calling them earlier to see if they could make a settlement for$400, and they denied it. And I was just taking Dave's advice to do that. And so I was just curious what you guys would do. How old is the debt?

37:45Oh, as of April 17th. Oh, so it's like a month. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. A fresh debt like that, they're not going to be as willing to settle as one that has been sitting for three or four years because they kind of see the writing on the wall. They'll be lucky to get anything out of this debt. And so not that I would wait on purpose to pay this off, but the reason they're not going to take$400 on$1 ,000 debt is because it's only a month old.

38:11Rachel Cruze:Yeah. Yeah. If it was a year or two, that's when you can really, really negotiate. What do you have, Lindsay? Do you have extra margin every month that you're trying to pay off debt? Yeah, for sure. I mean, I've got a lot. I'm just trying to figure out where you put your money. Yes. Okay. So let us know. So you have that$1 ,000 bill. And then what's the other$77 ,000? What kind of debt? Well,$70 ,000 of it is my car. $70 ,000. is just in your car? That's one car? Yeah. How much do you make a year? Well, 225 days. Okay. And then plus commission. Okay. So last year I made 270. Okay. Okay. Well, that's not completely out of proportion just for an income standpoint.

38:59Rachel Cruze:I was nervous you were going to say you make 75. We get that call sometimes. But all of your problems are solved if you just sold the car, right? Yeah. How do you have a credit in collections making $270 a year? Well, because I'm not very good at, I'm very good at my job and I'm not very good at taking care of everything else. Okay. From like a detail standpoint and getting everything paid. Yeah. I have a problem with details. Okay. So you do have$1 ,000 to pay this debt though. I do. Okay. Okay. Well, so then I wouldn't, I wouldn't negotiate. It's not worth the brain calories to try to negotiate and fight at this point.

39:39Rachel Cruze:Be done. and then what's the other 7 ,000? Credit card debt and like, oh, some credit card debt and then a little bit of like, oh, I put something on a furniture plan, but I'm just trying to figure out how to spend my money. And I was just curious what you guys thought because Dave always talked about, you know, you guys can call a credit collections company and, you know, offer 30%, and I offered more than that, and they didn't settle. So, obviously, I want to be able to... Yeah, and if they have any insight into your income as well, they're not going to be settling with you either. I didn't know if they did or not, so that would make more sense.

40:21Rachel Cruze:Well, so I would say, Lindsay, I would start to put some parameters in place, some identity statements, if you will, about who you are with money. OK, so you, if I were to like wave a wand, I would want you to say I'm a person that doesn't borrow money. I don't need to borrow money because I'm a really hard worker. I'm very smart and I can make a lot of money. And I am. That's that's part of who I am. That's part of you, Lindsay. Also, details are not my strength, but I am a person who works at my weaknesses, especially when my weaknesses are costing me all this money. Like the amount of interest you're paying, Lindsay, on credit cards, when you make$270 ,000 a year, it should be like— That is wild.

41:06What do you do for work? I'm curious. I'm a sales rep. Sorry, you broke up. I'm a lighting sales rep for commercial. A lighting sales rep? Yeah. I imagine that involves some details, right? You got to know the customers, know the products. Too many. We represent like 208 different manufacturers right now. Sounds like you know some details. And so I think what's happened is we've been lackadaisical with our money because we can sort of out earn our stupidity. But the problem here is not settling a thousand dollar debt. The problem here is you're going to make a thousand dollars at work today. If you make 220 grand a year, that's about every workday you have in a year.

41:43So let's take advantage of this amazing income and go, I'm cutting up the cards. I'm only going to use money I have in the bank. I'm going to sell this car just because I know it was a mistake. I'm going to purchase something in cash and I'm going to be a kind of person who can save up for that. And guess what? Your next few paychecks, you could buy a used car that is wonderful, that'll get you from A to B without any debt attached to it. So you would suggest buying something else? I mean, obviously, I know it was kind of a dumb decision, right? What kind of car is this? America wants to know.

42:16It's a Defender 130. Oh, so you knew the details there. You didn't just walk up and say, I'll take any old car you got. Lindsay knows what she wants to know. The hardest part is going to be swallowing your pride and selling that car and buying something that is not a Defender 130 brand new.

42:33Rachel Cruze:Yeah. Or if you can pay this off in a year, Lindsay, I would be okay with you keeping it. But you actually have to do a plan and say, I'm putting all of this extra money towards paying off debt. So you're going to live on nothing. That's like$6 ,000 a month just going to the car. Everything is going to be going to this car. If you're unwilling to do that, it needs to be sold tomorrow.

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44:07Rachel Cruze:Welcome back to The Ramsey Show and the Fairwinds Credit Union Studio. I am Rachel Cruz hosting this hour with good friend and co-host of Smart Money Happy Hour, George Camel. We are answering your questions. So give us a call at 888-825-5225. And we do this show every day from 1 to 4 Central Time. So you can come and visit us. We are just south of Nashville and Franklin. We got a full house today here on Memorial Day weekend. And yeah, it's always fun. And it's always fun. We get to see people and interact and say hi. It's sometimes lonely here behind the glass. This glass box of emotion we find ourselves in.

44:44Rachel Cruze:But when y 'all are out there, we appreciate it. And, George, we actually went on the road and did the show live in front of a bigger audience than ones sitting out there. A couple hundred people. It was awesome. And it was so fun. Four cities in April. Yeah, we did these, like, small kind of theaters around. Some in Southern California. We were in Orlando. Where were we? Charlotte, Denver, Phoenix. There we go. An Anaheim area. Already blacked out from April. Seal Beach, to be specific. Orlando was last fall. Orlando was last fall, yeah. I can't keep up. It's been a wild ride for Rachel. Yeah, May has been something.

45:15But there were some great moments, and the team did a great job with these events and the video side of it. And you get to see the emotion on their faces, the laughter, the tears, the awkward debates with their spouse standing next to them.

45:27Rachel Cruze:That's right, yeah. So make sure to check those episodes out, you guys. I think we have three out of the four that are out, and so you can check them out on the channel. And, yeah, it was just kind of a fun, different way to do the Ramsey show, but we loved it. Loved being there. All right, let's go to Atlanta, Georgia. and we have Catherine on the line. Hi, Catherine. Welcome to the show. Hi, thank you. Yes, absolutely. Thanks for calling in. How can we help? Several years ago, my mother-in-law moved in with me and my husband, and she's been living with us since then. And despite the mother-in-law stereotypes out there, she's actually been fabulous.

46:04But while she watches our kids and started that four years ago, she doesn't pay anything for like room and board. She has helped a lot with like household items and things like that. But when you think of the whole scope of it, I'm like, oh, that's a lot of money. And I don't know if that's something we should ask her, my husband's siblings to help contribute to, or even my mother-in-law herself.

46:28Rachel Cruze:To contribute to like paying rents and for utilities? Is that what you mean specifically? Yeah. Like essentially like room and board we do pay a lot of like the food too like pretty much every day like necessity and it's expected on her part i i guess that would be it yeah expected not to pay you mean yeah it's expected that she doesn't pay and that you guys get all the groceries and just because of child care how how often is she watching the kids she watches the kids so it's been one kid every day or when I was working full time for four years. And then I just had a child. So it's going to be a four year old and a little baby.

47:10And then it'll be five days a week.

47:12Rachel Cruze:Okay. And you're not paying her for that. Correct. Yeah. I feel like she's kind of earned. You guys are getting a deal out of this. Not her. Because what you would pay for someone to watch those kids. I mean, you're talking about a nanny, a live in nanny situation. I mean, you'd pay a full salary, you know, 40, 50 grand a year for that person. So you're not paying that. So I think she's probably earning her keep if you ask me. Yeah, that makes sense. And was anything established early on of, you know, whose decision was it for her to live with you guys? It really was me and my husband's joint decision.

47:51She was in an abusive marriage, and so we essentially got her out of her house. and for safety reasons. And then she got divorced. And I was like, you stay here as long as you need. And even if you want to stay, stay. That's fine. And that's just what it turned into for like a year and a half. And then I had my son and things just stayed the same.

48:11Rachel Cruze:Okay. So I do wonder if there's any level of you, Catherine, having a low level. You sound very pleasant and peaceful. But a low level of frustration that an urgent thing needed to be done. And I think you guys made the right decision, right? I think if anyone was in that position and their mom was, you know, in a dangerous situation, come live. But then the fact that there was no, that that act now has become the rest of your life as you see it because there's no other conversation of her leaving. So I think that's probably more of the problem that I would be, I would think for myself, Catherine, you know, pretty intently of like, hey, what do I want my life and my household to look like in the next four or five years?

48:54Rachel Cruze:Is it that you're going to be working full time and until these kiddos go off to kindergarten, you're going to need help? And actually, it's a gift that she's there. But, you know, when that time comes, maybe, you know, she can find her own place or maybe it's in 12 months that that happens. I don't know what that looks like for you and what you're desiring, but I would find that. And then in a very kind way, obviously, you know, bring that up to your husband and be like, hey, I'm having this feeling. Can we just can we talk about it? Because it just feels like it's like ambiguous and that ambiguity is causing probably some level of like, oh, crap, this is now forever.

49:31Rachel Cruze:Should she be paying towards the mortgage because she's living here? She's a roommate. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I think that just was never established because you sort of all stumbled into this situation and you all love each other and it all made sense. And now you're going, we probably should have some level of boundaries here about what this looks like. What is the responsibilities for everybody? Just what the plan is. Because she might also get resentful and go, wait, I just realized I'm not getting paid for this. This is crazy that I'm watching two kids five days a week. And she can't create her own financial independence at all from you all.

50:02Rachel Cruze:You know what I mean? Because she, you know, I don't know how anyone's thinking or feeling, but I think starting those conversations. And again, nothing's on fire. But when this drags out another 12 months, I would not want that to happen without some conversations of just the plan. hey, what are we desiring? What are we wanting? What's the plan going forward? That makes sense. Ambiguity does make me anxious. Yep. And that's fair. I didn't put that word to it. That makes a lot of sense. Yeah. Yeah. And I don't think that's mean of you or, you know what I mean, that you're a bad daughter-in-law or, you know, anything like that.

50:40Rachel Cruze:But especially when you start mixing, you know families um and living situations when it's not talked about and established and expectations and desires and wants and fears all of that is pushed out on the table and talked about uh it can get messy really quickly and some people do it well i think we had a call maybe this week even about that george when i was on with you and on monday there's ways to do it well but it takes a lot of communication on the front end and it takes healthy people on every side of it That's the other part. Yes. And Catherine, you know, opening that conversation may end up in resulting possibly of her saying, you know what, I want to create a life for myself and get some independence, which may mean she moves out and gets a job and you got to figure out, you know, child care stuff.

51:25Rachel Cruze:I got, you know, I don't know what that means, but I think being true to yourself and what you guys want is going to be the most important long-term. There's a saying around here at Ramsey, to be unclear is to be unkind. That's right. So it's actually the nicest thing you can do is to communicate with clarity. Even if you go, oh, that didn't feel good in the moment. But at least we all know where we stand. There's no ambiguity. Okay, that quote's good. And then what does Deloney say about resentment versus? Oh, no. Sorry, Deloney. Do we remember? Choose guilt over resentment. Yeah, that's it. Choose guilt over resentment.

52:00Rachel Cruze:So you're going to feel guilty. Maybe trying to have this conversation. You feel bad about it. but you'd rather have that emotion than resentment build over the next couple of years. That's a poison.

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54:20Rachel Cruze:All right, Woody is in Atlanta, Georgia. Hi, welcome to the show. Hello, how are you guys doing? Hi, we're doing great. How can we help? So my wife and I, we've been married for a long time, and we started Financial Peace University around 2007, before we got married at Jonesboro First Baptist Church. And so we followed the baby steps pretty much. We're 40 and 41 now. And I've noticed that I can't seem to switch it off anymore because I'm constantly just thinking about like savings and investing. And we actually have a pension at our workplace. And I've noticed that our 401k and our 457 and stuff like that have actually reached to like$1.2 million already.

55:08Wow. Oh, yes. Definitely gotten to the point where am I really enjoying the money that I'm saving? It's almost like I get anxiety when I spend on frivolous things, but I will give money away to people when they need it for certain things. But it's almost like I don't get enjoyment out of just spending money. And I'm not sure what my plan is because my wife is a teacher and I'm in public safety. So we retire pretty early, like at 52 years old. So we got about 11, 10 years left to really work. And it's going to be about$150 ,000 a year just for the pension alone. So you're basically saying we're good on the investment side.

55:53How do I unlock this spending side? Because even when I do spend, I don't enjoy it. Right. Yeah. Because, I mean, we paid off our debts. You got a mortgage? No, we paid off our house. We follow all the baby steps. We're complete everything.

56:08Rachel Cruze:Well done, you guys. As a teacher and what did you say you did? Public safety. Public safety. Okay, yes. Well done, you guys. That's amazing. That is amazing. So you did it and now it's now what? What's your wife like with money? She just, she really, she sticks to the plan that I just kind of go, hey, we need to just do this. And she just kind of steps back and just allows me to invest and just do whatever. And then, you know, we go on vacations. We enjoy just hanging out with each other. But we live very, I guess, minimally because we really don't spend that much money on just random things anymore.

56:44Sure.

56:44Rachel Cruze:Yeah. Is there things you want to do, but you can't get yourself to do it? Experiences, things? Well, I'm always interested in the fire movement just, you know, because public safety is one of those things where I can't just leave work because things may happen that I need to be there for. So I deal with emergency management, so it's pretty much for a whole county. So it's not something I could just leave and go on vacation. So I guess my big thing right now is just focus on financial independence and retire early, but we're there. So you want to go on more vacations, but you can't do to your role?

57:21Yeah. If I could snap my fingers, that's where I'm going. Where would you put your money if I snap my fingers today? Is it a hobby? Is it a thing? Is it upgrading the car? Is it, you know, buying back your time? You guys are doing things you don't want to do. Probably buying back time. I mean, that's pretty much what I focus on. I've noticed that that's all I kind of think about right now is like, hmm, can I actually retire early? Because, I mean, our house is, you're not even part of the net worth. Our house, I don't even count the house as part of our net worth. Sure. Do you guys have kids, Woody?

57:50Yes, ma 'am. I have a three-year-old and we've already funded his$529 ,000. I believe you, Woody.

57:58Rachel Cruze:I believe you. You have been, yes. You funded your grandkids. You have been a good student. You've got an A++ for the Financial Beast University graduates. You won, Woody. You won the prize. Okay, so, you know, when I think about Woody a lot when it comes to spending is a couple of things. One, you want to have that muscle built, right? Because, like you said, you're going to just end up hoarding, not enjoying anything. and part of the gift and the blessing of being diligent is that you reap what you sow and you guys have sowed really well, right? You've put in a lot of patience and wisdom and sacrifice and so now you're gonna have the ability to do some really fun things in life but you won't be able to have fun with those things if you don't enjoy letting go of some of this money.

58:44Rachel Cruze:So that's one thought. And then Arthur Brooks, who we just love so much, he talks about there's five things you can do with money and four of them will actually bring you a level of happiness, okay? One, generosity, which you already mentioned in this call, which I love that about you. So yes, always looking at ways to be generous. That actually has a level of happiness in your life. One of them is buying your time back, just what George said. So are there things, conveniences in life with having a three-year-old that maybe your wife's like, hey, I would love grocery delivery. I don't want to go to the grocery anymore.

59:17Rachel Cruze:Let's do that. or let's have someone come clean the house. Like, I don't know what that looks like for you guys, but what are things you can spend money on to actually get your time back or your wife's time back and do something productive with that time, he says. The third is to spend it on experiences with people you love. So find, if you can find the time, I hear that your job is very taxing in that way, but if there are moments of reprieve that you can say, no, I can't get PTO here, go enjoy those. And take your son, take another couple with you guys that you love. I don't know what that looks like, but go and have some experiences with people you love.

59:59Rachel Cruze:And then the fourth is actually saving. You actually do get a level of happiness by saving because there's progress and you've been doing that. And then the fifth thing you can do with money, it's not a bad thing. It just won't bring you happiness. It's just buying stuff. But again, there's a little bit of me that kind of wants you just to buy some stuff. I kind of want you to, in your budget every month, have a line item. I would force that line item. That's the one thing you have to do in the budget is spend on this thing. And it can be as tactical. Like my husband and I, we will spend differently.

1:00:28Okay, I will spend on probably cheaper stuff, but more stuff. She's a quantity gal. I love. Winston's a quality guy.

1:00:34Rachel Cruze:So Winston would be like, let's upgrade the water hose or whatever it is. And he's like, there's a purpose to it. It's tactical. But he's like, let's go buy a nice one. Like that's where he'll spend. But find things that you can spend money on throughout the month because that will help you let go of some of this because money can control you. It can control you on one end. If you're broke and you have no money, right, there's a level of control there because you're stressed out all the time. But it also on the other end of the spectrum can have the control where you have this false sense of deep security.

1:01:06Rachel Cruze:And opening your hands and letting some money go kind of counteracts that. Yeah. So what has been a feature, Woody, is now a bug. That's the problem. The feature was, man, you're so good at living on Lesson You Make, so good at saving, and now that you made it, it is a bug that we need to debug. I do buy random stuff. I do buy random stuff. I mean, we got two Teslas. I mean, I literally bought two back-to-back, and then I was like, well, those are paid off. So I think giving away my money at this point is going to be what, to my family members and stuff, I think it's going to be the best bet. because we put away a good bit of money into vacations too now.

1:01:45And so it's kind of hard for me to shut it off because if money's just sitting around in the bank or something, I feel like I'm not getting a lot of interest off of it. So I end up just investing it. And that's all I seem to do with just standing money.

1:02:00Rachel Cruze:Yeah, and I think that's okay too. I mean, my husband and I, I mean, we'll get to a place where we have a high yield savings account. We'll put some money in and then we'll look up and we're like, okay, you know, there's some money in there and it's just sitting there. We could invest that. And so we'll take, you know, some of that money and put it back into investment. So like, I think that rhythm is not, is not bad. And what it sounds like, what you just said, gives me some level of relief. Maybe you're doing better than you think you are. Yeah. I think some therapy would be the next good purchase to go, what's underneath all the scarcity mindset?

1:02:30How do I, you know, kind of unlock this abundance mindset now that I actually have it. Nothing is on fire. And yet I always feel like something's on fire. That might be part of your wiring. I mean, you're in public safety. You're always like waiting for the other shoe to drop. That might be part of it. Well, I came from a communist country, so that probably had a lot to do with it.

1:02:48Rachel Cruze:Oh yeah. Where'd you come from? Well, we, uh, I was, uh, from Vietnam. My mom, like we escaped Vietnam after the, the, the war and everything. And so, um, I mean, I was a little kid, but it was just like years after and we like lived really poor. So I guess that I can't switch it off. My brother's the same way. Yeah. Which makes sense, right? When you can connect those dots. Like, you're not crazy, right? I mean, what you've lived through and experienced, you're like, there's no way I want to go back to that. But, again, that's a good motivator to get you to a place of security and safety with money, which is what's happened.

1:03:25Rachel Cruze:So now, not still depending on that same wiring is what's going to be key. So rewiring some of that and having some peace with your money and enjoyment definitely will be the thing to be working on.

1:04:00We are here at the moment and we'll see what happens in normal dark. Each time again Homecoming Revolution setting a cool pricelaştır mogę ciut good that wayÜbubme

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1:05:34Rachel Cruze:Today's question of the day is brought to you by Y-Refi. If you've been turned away by other lenders because your private student loans are out of control, Y-Refi may still be able to help. So they specialize in refinancing options built specifically for borrowers in that situation. Go to Y-Refi.com slash Ramsey. That's the letter Y-R-E-F-Y.com slash Ramsey. May not be available in all states. Today's question comes from Grayson in Maine. I'm having trouble with baby step two. I've saved the thousand dollar emergency fund, but can't seem to make any headway on paying off our debt. I have three daughters under 13.

1:06:11It's difficult for me to go fully scorched earth when I want to still give them a decent childhood and provide the things they need. How can I stop feeling stuck? What a good dad.

1:06:22Rachel Cruze:The dad guilt. It's real. Wow. Okay. So I think there's a, The issue here is we are pinning getting out of debt and not spending money to bad childhood. And I think you can have a great childhood and not buy your way into it. And getting out of debt doesn't take their entire childhood. It may take two, three years, but not their entire childhood. And I mean, I say this about my kids. I don't know if you feel like this, George. really what they want is you and you playing with them, being involved in their lives, doing things not necessarily that cost money, but just spending time with them, being around them.

1:07:08Rachel Cruze:There is something to that that I think we gloss over and think they just need more stuff and just keep pushing that agenda when at the end of the day, yeah, do teenagers want stuff? Absolutely. I'm not saying that. But truly the priority of what is being built within them and their character is really going to come from you and the time spent with them. Well, and if you're in debt the whole time they're going through childhood, you're not going to be fully present. You're going to be stressed. There's going to be financial burdens that will take you away from letting you enjoy them as children.

1:07:40And so I think a short time of sacrifice for long-term gain, especially as they enter their teenage years, which is when things really get expensive. They're going to start wanting – there's clothes, there's prom, there's all the activities, the sports, college funding, all of that. You're going to be able to do so much easier without this debt in your life. So some of this is just not feeling the dad guilt that you're doing a bad job and some of it is going short season.

1:08:05Rachel Cruze:And your parenting might look different than other people's parenting in that season. And that's okay too, right? so and so maybe do an x y and z with their kids and you you're not because you are putting that money towards getting out of debt again which is not forever it's not their entire childhood they're gonna promise promise they're gonna be okay all right let's go to eunice in la hi welcome to the show hello very nice to hear your voice guys oh well thank you you as well thanks for calling How can we help? So I've been in USA for almost four years. My background is about meat shops, businesses back in my country from my family.

1:08:49And when I came here, I started working with somebody that he owns a retail store in a good location. And right now he's going to retire. So he was offered for me the store for$300K, and I have like$50 ,000 to give it to him as a down payment. So I'm thinking, the question is, I'm thinking if I go ahead and buy the store, I mean buy the business, or go and take that$50 ,000 and open my own shop. So that's my question.

1:09:32Rachel Cruze:Okay. Would you be able to open your own shop with$50 ,000, or were you going to plan on borrowing money as well to do that? Yeah, I do have a friend that he can borrow for me like another$75 ,000 without an interest. Okay. You just think it's a terrible idea to borrow any type of money for anything. And especially when it comes to small businesses and especially in the food industry. That's the number one industry that ends up closing its doors and then people end up owing so much. And not because you're not great at what you do. It just is what it is. And so when you add debt to the picture, you add on stress, you add on a lot of risk, and you add in levels of decisions that you make in order for the business, in order to pay the payment, that may not be great decisions long term for the business.

1:10:32Rachel Cruze:So there's something about the peace of mind and moving slowly and moving with the speed of cash to grow something that doesn't lock you into a small business loan or worse, owing your friend money that he's going to get for you. And then when the if something happens, and then the shop closes up, now you owe your friend money. And it may take, you know, four or five years to pay that off. And so staying ahead financially is not going backwards and going into debt. Okay. What's the net profit of the business every year?

1:11:10Like 120K. Okay. So they're basically valuing it at a little under three times that, at$300 ,000. Yeah. Okay. Have you talked to him about a potential agreement where you basically pay him income out of the profits until he hits a certain amount? We were thinking about it. Yeah. That's a much safer way to do this. And the only way I would do it is this sort of sweat equity agreement where you pay him a certain amount of the profits. Maybe it's a certain amount, a certain percentage until you hit$300 ,000. And at that point, he's cut off.

1:11:50Rachel Cruze:And it's almost like you're paying for it as you go versus going and getting a$300 ,000 loan and then having the bank be the one that's in charge of it all. Because with this other agreement, you have not borrowed money at that point under your name. Right. But actually, he's offering for me like$300 ,000 under his loan. So I'm going to pay him like a seller finance method. Yeah, but that's a very different situation than you paying him out of a percentage of profits. Let's say 25 % of profits to him until it's paid back. You see what I mean? Because then if the profits aren't there, you're not on the hook.

1:12:31And so I would have a business attorney draft this up to avoid you having carrying all of this risk. Okay. So if you look at 25%, you're talking$30 ,000 a year. So it would be 10 years to fully pay him back. Now, you guys might agree on a different percentage. Maybe it's 40%, so he gets paid in less than 10 years. But this idea that you're going to take on a quarter million dollar debt, hoping this all works out perfectly, is just you're jumping off a cliff. Yes, right.

1:13:00Rachel Cruze:Yep. So, so yeah, staying away from any debt situation. And if you can create some kind of agreement with them, what George was saying, that's, that's what we would recommend. So thanks for the call. um george we have a question from facebook and natalie asks we are planning an out-of-state move and we'll be paying off our debt with the sale of our home this feels like we are cheating on the plan so how can we make sure that we feel the pinch and don't go back into poor money habits go that's it that's that's it that's very self-aware so they're going hey we'll knock the debt with the sale of the home, but we know we sort of shortcutted it and it worked out.

1:13:43Rachel Cruze:That's right. But our behavior hasn't necessarily changed. How do we make sure it's changed? I mean, that's the honor system at that point. But one way to know that is, have you actually been budgeting? Are you living on less than you make? Is there margin every month? Have you shut down all of your debt accounts, including your credit cards? Have you frozen your credit so you can't get back into debt even if you wanted to. That tells me that the behavior's changed. Yes. If there's any kind of friction you can put into place, it's going to be huge. And especially on the debt side, and just like what you're saying, George, closing accounts, you and your husband saying, hey, together we are agreeing we are not borrowing money, so there's going to be no avenue for debt, so we're going to get rid of the credit cards.

1:14:27Rachel Cruze:We're getting rid of this or that. And start living on a budget, so start practicing living on less than you make now, and that will create the habit. So pain is a great teacher and people that have a lot of pain and sacrifices, they go through baby step two. They're like, I'm done. When I'm done, I'm done. You touch the hot stove, you're not going back. But if you bypass the hot stove, you may not have learned the lesson. That's right. But I think you can still do it. We still people, you know, we see people do it. But I think it's very, very wise that you're cautious about this. So prove to yourself that you are worthy of trust when it comes to finances.

1:15:00And over time, you will become that person.

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1:16:38Rachel Cruze:buying or selling your home is a really big deal and you want an expert in your corner fighting for you to find the best deal at the right price and our ramsey trusted program really is the only way to find a top agent that you can trust who's going to make your home a blessing and not a burden and it's really easy you can compare agent profiles interview them and choose the right one to work with. So find a local Ramsey trusted real estate pro for free at ramseysolutions.com slash agent, or click the link in the description if you're listening on YouTube or podcast. All right, let's go to Sylvia in Seattle.

1:17:15Rachel Cruze:Hey, welcome to the show. Hey, thank you for taking my call. Absolutely. I am interested in your thoughts on paying off my mortgage as a whole in one payment or splitting it up in two years to reduce the amount of tax burden I would have to pay with a large sum. Where is the tax burden coming from? Are you selling off assets? Well, no, I'm just saying my income taxes. If I pay$130 ,000 in one sum, that will take me into a higher tax bracket, where if I split the amount to$50 ,000 per year, then that keeps me in the lowest tax bracket. I'm retired. I'm 73 years old. I have Social Security and my 401k.

1:18:02The funds to pay for the mortgage would come out of my 401k. Oh, so you pull it out of the 401k that's traditional and therefore increase your income tax. Got it. Okay. How much do you have in the 401k?

1:18:14Rachel Cruze:About$700 ,000. And how much are you going to pull out to pay off the home? It's$129 ,000 right now. Do you have any other assets? Well, I have$3 million in property. Oh, nice. And those are all paid for? Everything's paid for by my house. My husband died in 2018, and I got onto the Dave Ramsey program and paid off my debts about$300 ,000. And then I got breast cancer. Wow, well done. You've been through a lot. I paid everything off. Yeah. That's been a tough couple of years. So how much do you, did you run the numbers and do you know exactly how much extra you'll be paying because of the tax bracket if you paid it off all in one lump sum?

1:19:07Rachel Cruze:Well, my income is$60 ,000 a year. So I can pay off about$40 ,000 safely,$50 ,000 safely and keep me in a lower tax bracket. the lowest tax bracket for my state. Okay. I mean, I wouldn't wait because of the taxes. I would calculate it and go, okay, I know it's going to be an extra, let's say$10 ,000 total in what I actually will owe the IRS. And I'm okay with that for the idea of being completely debt free, not paying any more interest on my mortgage and having that peace of mind. And so that's kind of the trade-off here. But I also wonder if there's a different way to do this. And I'm wondering if you would maybe sell one of the properties, pay off your mortgage, and sock away the rest in an investment account to sort of diversify your portfolio anyways.

1:20:00That is a thought. The kids have interest in the housing properties, and they're resistant not wanting me to sell it because it's a vacation property that's worth about$250 ,000 that would easily pay it off. What are the other properties? The other property is timberland. I live in a rural area, and I grow timber. Oh, wow. And that's my crop. That's cool. Last year, we bought$100 ,000. Brought in$100 ,000 for six acres of timber. Where did that money go? That money went into kind of an emergency fund, and I've been using that to do home repairs and put a new roof on my house. Could you sell more of that?

1:20:51Not for another four years. Okay. We have it planned out because the timber market is very, it's a crop. It's like gold. It goes up and down. And right now with the political climate, the American woods, lumber is not doing well. as well as it could.

1:21:15Rachel Cruze:Yeah, well, I don't think you're in any kind of trouble. So if you decided to do this over two years or something, I mean, I think you're going to be fine either way. So it would just be the peace of mind that you just have personally to say, it's worth paying a little extra and the penalty of the extra taxes, just to know that I'm done, that I'm done, and I can just live my life and I have to worry about it. And for a lot of people, it's kind of worth it. And especially because you're going to be fine. And because you have these other properties that if something ever got in trouble, you could sell.

1:21:49That essentially is your nest egg at this point, because you'll have a little over half a million left in that retirement account, which is awesome. But the real value here is those 3 million properties. That's right. So that's why I asked if you can offload a little bit of that, maybe your least favorite, but it sounds like it's mostly land plus the vacation home. Right, right.

1:22:07Rachel Cruze:All right, let's go to Sophie in Austin. Hi, Sophie, welcome to the show. Hi, how are you? Hi, we're doing great. How can we help? Okay, so my husband and I have been together for about 16 years. We're about in debt,$26 ,000 in medical debt. He currently is not working and hasn't had a paycheck since before December. I only make part-time income. So you're breaking up on us, Sophie. Can you speak directly into your phone?

1:22:45So I heard 26K in medical debt. He hasn't worked since December. You're working part-time. What are you making? Well, part-time I make about 120 a day, depending on how many days I can work. What does that turn into a month? It just depends. Sometimes it's$600 a month. Sometimes it's less than that.

1:23:08Rachel Cruze:Come August, I'll be making$2 ,600 a month. Okay. How are you guys paying bills right now?

1:23:19Well, I don't know. I paid all of the month of May. I found out. So my husband left. He went to a different state and just kind of left me and the kids here. It's like he kind of just threw a bomb and we're taking care of it on our own.

1:23:36Rachel Cruze:My parents have helped. Oh, wow. Okay, so your marriage has fallen apart. He's left. Yeah. Is he wanting a divorce? Like, is he going to be going through some proceedings?

1:23:52Rachel Cruze:We've tossed it around. It's definitely in consideration. Why did he leave? he said that he left to go work with some friends uh but he's been gone about a month now and he's only sent us maybe about seven hundred dollars since he's been gone and that has basically not covered much of anything so i've had to lean on do you know do you know said do you know said friends i know the friends yeah and they're they are really working yeah they say that they're working okay well i mean at this point he should just come home and work because he can do a you know minimum wage job and make more than this yeah and before he left i practically begged him to stay and it's like you can work here you don't need to go work there um i think our priorities are different and I get that we're both stressed or both overwhelmed but his tendency to leave is very much a pattern and I'm at the point where I'm like should the kids and I just call it quick just move out and file for divorce and start fresh and sell everything do you guys own the home if I'm being honest we do own the home but the problem is is I since he's been gone and I've been having to deal with all these finances, everything's in his name.

1:25:21My name's not on anything. And so I can't actually sell anything to help. Um, and I don't have, all I have is$1 ,600. I opened up my own bank account and moved my paycheck over there and that's all I have.

1:25:36Rachel Cruze:And that's not enough to move out. No, um, no, it's not. It's, um, gosh, Sophie, I'm so, I'm so sorry. So, I mean, I would make one last ditch effort in saying, if you don't, I mean, it's kind of an ultimatum. If you don't come home and us work on this marriage together, then yeah, you probably will be looking at a future where you're not together. And that will be his choice, Sophie. That's his choice to do that. And then in that case, yeah, you need some good family and community around. and stable income. Yep. And you'll have to go through the proceedings and then he will probably have to pay and the death will be split.

1:26:16But again, the prayer and the hope

1:26:18Rachel Cruze:is that it's reconciled and you have to be able to, and I would give him that option, but he has to choose.

1:26:36Rachel Cruze:Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I am Rachel Cruz hosting with George Camel. We are answering your questions. So give us a call at 888-825-5225. We're talking about your life and your money. All right. Kicking us off this hour is Jason in Jackson. That's a tongue twister. Hey, Jason. Welcome to the show. Hey, how are y 'all? Hi, we're doing great. How can we help today? So I'm basically contemplating if it's a good decision to go back to school and accrue about$65 ,000 to$80 ,000 worth of debt. Okay. Now, I would be going back part-time, so I'd be remaining a full-time worker during this. All right.

1:27:17What are you going to school for? Civil engineering. Nice. That's a good field. What are you doing now? I have an associate in AutoCAD technology. Okay. So you're kind of adjacent to the civil engineering world now in what you do? Yes, sir. Yes, sir. I pretty much do it. I just don't have the degree for it. What are you making? I make around$62 ,000 a year. That's a pretty good income to not have a four-year degree. And I would be increasing it to about$82 ,000. If you had the degree. Yes, sir. Okay, so we're going to spend$80 ,000 to make$20 ,000 more, take you four years to break even. That's without interest and without the payments.

1:28:01I'm trying to figure out how we can cash flow this thing because I love the goal and the dream. Yeah, for sure.

1:28:06Rachel Cruze:Are you working for a company right now that you would probably stay at if you had this other degree? Yes, and that's a big thing pushing this. My top out right now, my current position, isn't all that much compared to what it could be if I do go get that four-year degree. Okay, and... I would be increasing my top out from 77 to 112. Okay, okay. And the company now, have you talked to their HR department? Is there any benefits of any level of tuition that's paid if you choose to stay to work with them? So right now, that's a gray area. It hasn't happened in the past. Okay. So definitely not something to rely on.

1:28:47Rachel Cruze:Okay. So what makes it gray and not just like, no, that's not an option? Did they kind of open a door because of a conversation you had with them? Possibly, but nothing's guaranteed as of right now. Okay. And what college have you gotten accepted into? Um, Oregon State University, which is the only college in the United States that offers this program online. There's no other civil engineering programs that are online in the country? None that are ABET accredited. Oh, interesting. So they can charge what they want for it, it sounds like. Pretty much. How many years is this program? um so you can the max you can go on it is 10 so they don't require you to be very aggressive at it but i'm guessing i'll be doing it since i'm i'll be part-time probably it'll probably take me about six years oh i'm guesstimating i don't love that it's already going to take forever to get there and then it's going to take you another another whole bunch of time to pay it off that's right.

1:29:51Rachel Cruze:Yeah. It doesn't sound like a great plan, not only from the debt aspect, but also the timeline aspect. So I'm just wondering, is there, there's no colleges in Jackson or near Jackson or in your state to do it locally to do this at all? Yeah. There is, but it's in person and, you know, that would take away from my current income. And I do have deals, which would be the only reason I I couldn't do that. For sure. What does that option look like? I'm just curious. Would it take you two years to complete or is it four? It would be probably about four, yes, ma 'am. Okay. And do they offer any tracks of having classes at night that if you did go work full time and then you were a student?

1:30:41No, ma 'am.

1:30:42Rachel Cruze:It would have to be during the day? Yes, ma 'am. Okay. Yeah, I don't know. So, I mean, yeah, Jason, I just, in good faith, I couldn't tell you. And, I mean, the jump in income, it's good, right? But it's not double, right, what you would make. And if it takes you six years to complete, and then actually, I mean, you won't see that money for. Yeah, I'm wondering, can you just stack cash for two years and then pursue this? Potentially, and as of right now, I'm on track to be debt-free in about five years. How much debt do you have? $58 ,000. What kind of debt is that? So I have about$20 ,000 in a vehicle and then another$35 ,000 in a house.

1:31:30Oh, on a mortgage? Yes. Wow. How is it so low? So y 'all aren't going to like this, but it's a mobile home. It was a very temporary fix to a problem. That was my fear. That I was having. Okay. So this thing's like going down in value. Yes. Yes, that is. What is it worth today? About$64, I had it appraised last year. And what's the car worth? The car is worth, let's see, and that's on two vehicles. One is on, I think it's worth$18 last I checked, and the other one's$16.

1:32:08Rachel Cruze:Why do you have two vehicles? So one of them is a side-by-side. Y 'all consider that a vehicle, right? I consider it a toy. that is in the way of you pursuing your dream. One is a toy, then, yes. And you won't have time to do that if you're pursuing school and working full-time, right? That is right, which is mainly just used around the house and all that. Can we do some math together? You ready for this, Jason? You're telling me you've got$20K worth of these car loans and the toy. They're worth$34K total, right? Yes, sir. So you could profit$14K off of that. You could profit about$29K from your mobile home if you sold it.

1:32:47You tracking with me? Yes, sir. That gives you$43 ,000 and you go rent somewhere and use that$43 ,000 to start cash flowing this degree and you save up the other$20 ,000 over the next couple of years because you'll be debt free. You freed up those payments. Now we can save that cash. Yes, sir. I think we just found the answer. I don't think you like it, but that's what I would do if I was in your shoes. In a heartbeat. Because everything in your life right now is going down in value and you owe payments on it. So what if you rented for a season, worked on this degree, and finished it even sooner?

1:33:23Rachel Cruze:Yeah, finished it in four years versus six because you work your butt off doing it online. Save a couple hundred bucks a month to cash flow the final years and you're there. Okay, okay. The only problem is in the small town that I am from, there is not very many rental options. I bet you can find something, Jason. Nobody would be willing to rent a room to you? They would. It's just extremely high from what I've seen in the past, which is why I went with the mobile home option. What's high? I think last time I looked, I tried to find the cheapest. It was about$800 to rent a mobile home. No, no, no.

1:34:01Rachel Cruze:We're not talking about renting a mobile home. Renting an apartment. Oh, an apartment? Or a room in a house with roommates so they're looking for a roommate. Let's just take mobile homes off the table. Okay, yeah, I haven't looked at that market at all, really. Okay, so that's probably what I would do, yes. Because you're bringing home over$4 ,000 a month right now? Yes, sir. So let's keep that rent to no more than$1 ,000 a month. Yes, sir. And you'll be better off than being underwater in this mobile home in a couple years, and it's worth nothing. And Jason, too, your income can continue to go up.

1:34:34Rachel Cruze:You said the ceiling was around$75, I think you said. So you still, through these next four years while you're in school, and you're going to go to school, cash flowing it the way George just laid it out, your income is going to continue to go up. So, yes, I think it's a great move to do it, but you would have to cash flow, which means you're going to have to make some big decisions.

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1:35:59Learn more at RamseySolutions.com slash SmartVestor.

1:36:20Rachel Cruze:So Ask Ramsey is our free AI tool that is built and trained on proven Ramsey principles. And we now have so many people and they're asking questions, George. So we can actually start to see some trends of questions people are asking. It's fun. It's like being able to see people's Google searches. Yes, I know. It's financial. But there's a lot around insurance and investing. And so one of the main questions is, how do I know how much house I can afford based on my salary and financial situation? So again, insurance and investing was asked a lot. But I just saw here the most asked question is around buying a home.

1:36:58Rachel Cruze:So the core rule here is that your monthly mortgage payments should never exceed 25 % of your monthly take-home pay. and that 25 % will include your principal, interest, property taxes, homeowners insurance, PMI, HOA fees, all of that is included in that 25%. And why we say that a fourth of your take-home pay is so that it frees up the rest of your money. 75 % of the money that you have then can be going towards debt. If you have consumer debt, you can be using it for investing or saving. And so what happens is people can quickly get into a home and it's 50 % of their take-home pay and they just don't have a lot left when it comes to even just food, right?

1:37:41Rachel Cruze:And paying basic bills. It's a burden instead of a blessing. That's right. So that's why it's conservative. It's so that you have more money left over to pay off the mortgage early, invest for college, go on vacation, upgrade the car so you actually have a life instead of just a house. So Ask Ramsey is a great tool that can help you determine how much house you can afford based on your specific financial situation. Go check it out for yourself. Ask your question today. Go to RamseySolutions.com. or click the link in the description if you're on podcast or YouTube. Yeah. Have you gone on it a lot, George?

1:38:09Oh, I use it a lot. It's fun. It's great. It's my only friend as I just chat with Ask Ramsey because it'll talk back to me.

1:38:15Rachel Cruze:And it talks to you. It gives you some encouragement. It's the only one who wants to nerd out with me. Like, let's crunch some numbers. Are you wondering about this? Those are always my follow-ups. I love the follow-ups of like, have you thought about this? Oh, yeah. Show me more. Tell me more. We love it. All right. Let's go to Mary in Tulsa, Oklahoma. Hi, Mary. Welcome to the show. Hi, thank you so much for taking my call. Absolutely. How can we help? Well, I am$178 ,000 in debt, and probably another$20 ,000 will be added to that by the end of the year. I make about$125 ,000 a year, between$120 ,000 and$125 ,000.

1:38:57And I'm kind of wondering, the problem is my monthly cash flow. So it's getting ahead as it stands. I'm an LLC, and I am not currently taking out enough for taxes, and that just keeps adding every year. So I'm wondering if it's time to consider bankruptcy. No.

1:39:18Rachel Cruze:Wow. Okay. Good. For a thousand reasons, but number one, you're not going to be able to discharge the IRS debt in bankruptcy. How much do you owe in taxes? Oh, goodness. I owe$46 ,000 in back taxes, and I have yet to file 2025, which will be the most likely additional$20 ,000 by the end of the year. Oh, that's where that 20 came from. Okay. Did that 46 count in your 178, that number you gave us? Yes. Okay. What's the other debt? So the other debt is$100 ,000. Well, about$96 ,000 in student loans. And then I have probably$35 ,000 in credit card debt. I'm paying$2 ,500 a month right now on credit cards,$500 to a debt relief program, which would only take about$20 ,000.

1:40:12So since bankruptcy is not an option, I'm wondering, should I throw my money at my credit cards that the debt relief would not take and increase my monthly cash inflow?

1:40:26Rachel Cruze:Or do I just need to crunch it and focus on taxes? Well, the IRS always gets moved to the front of your debt snowball. So unless, which I don't know if you can, if you want to go try to get a loan for that 46, pay off the IRS, and then you just owe a credit union instead of the IRS, it's probably a better deal. And if that's the case, then you'll just put that in your debt snowball. The issue is that debt relief company tanked your credit. So I don't know if anyone's going to give you a dollar at this point because that's how these companies work. They tell you to stop paying on the debts, give us that money instead, collections comes after you, and they try to settle with collections.

1:41:05Yes. so have you talked to the irs yet five months in um i i haven't i'm on a payment plan okay so i that's what i wanted to know i'm good with that um but it's the now taking out current taxes to not get more in debt yeah that's right yeah you need to start paying your quarterlies

1:41:25Rachel Cruze:especially here in 2026 mary have you done that already like have you set that up for this calendar year? No, I'm taking out, my CPA takes out monthly payroll and they take out taxes there. But they did not do that in 2025. No, no, I did, just not enough. And which is why I've not filed yet, because I was kind of shocked at how much I owed in 2024, even with my write-offs. So I've just not filed yet because I know I'm going to owe more in and I can't pay right now. How long have you had a CPA? Two years, three years. And they didn't catch any of this? No, they kind of send me an email and they're like, let us know when you want to do payroll.

1:42:19So I'll just say, hey, let's do$2 ,000 payroll or let's do$3 ,000 or whatever I was able to submit in billing because I'm really bad about getting all my billing submitted. So – and that's kind of it. I'm not really even sure how much I need to be keeping out. That's where I'm going. Do you need to fire your CPA? I know. It sounds horrible. What are they even doing for you? They're giving you zero advice. They're not telling you to withhold enough for taxes and pay your estimates. We're giving you more tax advice than your CPA has.

1:42:48Rachel Cruze:Okay. based on what you told us. I don't know. How much are you making a year, Mary? $125, you said that. I'm sorry. $125. Yeah,$125. What kind of business is this? I'm a mental health therapist, and I'm an LLC, so I contract. Okay. Well, you're not going to bankrupt on the student loans or the IRS, so this is a moot point anyways, and I wouldn't tell you to file anyways. You can clean this up, but it's going to take a lot of focus, and it's going to take some time. Okay. Are you able to pick up extra clients, Mary, and work more? I am. I'm really working at my max right now. I'm working about six days a week.

1:43:29And I'm a single mother. So I don't want to take that extra time from my child.

1:43:34Rachel Cruze:Okay. Yeah, well, there's gonna, you know, I'm glad you're working that much. That's, that's encouraging, because the income is going to be the thing that's going to matter probably the most in this situation. But yeah, it's going to take you four to five years to kind of clean all this up. You're going to be throwing thousands at the debt every month and extra more than just the minimum payments. Otherwise, this is going to be a 10 to 20-year journey. Are you on a really tight budget, Mary? Yes, I am. I mean, I keep myself on a tight budget. Good. How much margin do you have per month to throw at debt?

1:44:10I have, after everything, all necessities, I have$1 ,400 a month left.

1:44:17Rachel Cruze:I currently pay about$360 a month out of pocket for counseling, and if need be, I can forgo that for a little bit. Pause that for maybe a year or something if you need to. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, because I think the goal would be, gosh, even$2 ,000 a month, it's still going to be. Because you're going to have about$200 ,000 to clean up. And so if you factor in$24 ,000 a year, that's still 83 months at$2 ,000 a month being thrown at the debts. Now, you're throwing a lot of the debts already. You said you had$2 ,500 in credit card payments plus the IRS plus the student loans. What do all those payments add up to a month?

1:44:59Oh, goodness. Let's see, the IRS is$700, the credit is$2 ,500, and then the student loans are$1 ,000. Okay, so$4 ,200 is already out the door every time you get paid. And my guess is you probably take home around$7 ,000 a month if you factor in taxes.

1:45:17Rachel Cruze:On the low end, I bring home about$10 ,000 before taxes. Okay. We need to start factoring after taxes. I think what got us into hot water is forgetting that taxes are a part of the game. So if you make that seven and start paying those taxes, it'll help. And the positive thing, Mary, is as you start paying off that lowest, even the credit card, that's going to free up a couple hundred bucks a month to keep throwing at that. That's where the debt snowball momentum really happens. But, yeah, you got a marathon ahead of you, Mary, but you can do this. You can do it.

1:46:06Dave Ramsey here. Most people stay stuck with their money because they're not paying attention to it. Most people are living paycheck to paycheck, stressed out and broke. Don't be most people. You work way too hard to be broke and feel broke, and you deserve to have something to show for it. That's why we built the Every Dollar Budget app. It gives you a personalized plan for your money that shows you how to free up extra money every month and use it to beat debt and build lasting wealth. Plus, you get real coaches guiding you through your plan step by step. Look, most people hearing this will just keep hoping something changes, but not you.

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1:47:11Rachel Cruze:One of the best parts of our job is when we get to hear from people and their stories of how that how they are winning. And we just got this great review from EveryDollar, EveryDollar app. A fan said, just being able to use every dollar and see all the extra we had every single month was very motivating. We'd have thousands of extra dollars and we can just throw it at the mortgage. Absolutely amazing. Well, if you guys want to take control of your money and find some extra margin, make sure to start every dollar for free. And you can do that in the App Store or Google Play. All right, let's go to Brittany in Raleigh.

1:47:48Rachel Cruze:Hi, Brittany. Welcome to the show. Hi, thank you for taking my call. Absolutely. How can we help? So we are currently on baby step two, me and my husband. And we have a little over$100 ,000 in debt. We have personal loans, a credit card, and a truck payment. So my question is, which one do we start with? I know that baby step two calls for the lowest amount, but one of our loans has a lien on my car with it. So would that be where we start since it's such like a high-risk loan? Or should we start with the credit card, which is the lowest amount? What kind of loan is this? Is it like a title loan or is it a personal loan secured against the title, like from a credit union?

1:48:33It's a personal loan. Okay. Yeah. How much is that?

1:48:38Rachel Cruze:It's$18 ,000 now. And what's your other debts? What do they amount to? um we have a credit card that's 13 000 a truck that's 36 000 um a 401k loan for 15 and another personal loan for 28 000 okay what's the truck worth um we'll look it on kelly blue book it's worth between like 22 and 25 and do you guys have anything in liquid cash right now in the bank um we have our$30 ,000 emergency fund how much you guys make a year britney um well i'm a stay-at-home mom currently i do go back to work um during the summer at like a preschool my husband he makes um roughly 90 to 95 000 and he made more and we recently moved and he took an unknown pay cut so he was making more and it was helping with the debt you said an unknown pay cut yes like he He didn't know that he would be making less?

1:49:41Yeah, it was the same company. Yes, it was the same company and the same job position. But his job runs on the routes and stuff. He delivers food for a living. And when he runs routes, he gets paid for certain things, and it doesn't pay as much where we move to. And he didn't know that ahead of time when he was signing the paperwork? No. Hmm. Well, you got$100 ,000 in debt and about$100 ,000 to pay off. The goal would be to get out from under this truck. What's the payment on that thing? $620 ,000 a month. Mm-hmm. And what about the personal loan against the car? The one against the car, it's$480 ,000 a month.

1:50:23Wow. So right there, you'd free up a nice chunk of change if we got rid of both of those. Just get rid of that truck, yeah. What's the smallest debt that's up next based on the balance?

1:50:32Rachel Cruze:um the smallest step that is up next would be the credit card and it's at 13 000 and that's all on one credit card yes it's a bank credit card okay what are y 'all using it for um well it's max currently um but it was just used for groceries gas just kind of making up for the loss of income that he had when we moved we moved about a year ago so you spent okay so Then there's like the personal loan as well. What was that used for? Which one? The lien? Both of them. From the car? One was for our old house where we lived. We used it to do renovations and fixing it up. And when we sold it, we didn't sell it for what we wanted to, to be able to pay that one back.

1:51:19Rachel Cruze:And then the other one was for moving costs and just catching up on everything. What caused you guys to move? Um, well, it was kind of free choice move. We decided that we wanted to and the job, we do move for work as well. You moved for work, but you get paid less? Uh, yeah, we, it was unexpected though. Like we, he was told that he would be making about the same amount as he did. And then when we got moved and everything settled in, it just kind of lowered. It's not a huge significant amount, but it's definitely enough to notice. Like a thousand bucks a month? Yeah, around that, yeah. Which is what you guys are used to living on, which caused the$13 ,000 in credit card debt,$1 ,000 a month that you lost.

1:52:05Are you guys in the hole every month right now, or do you have enough to cover all the bills and debt payments and have anything left over? We have somewhat left over. I'd say we have between$300 ,000 and$500 ,000 left over every month. Okay. So the goal now is to do a detailed budget and to find all the money we can in this$95 ,000 income and then some. That might mean he's working a second job and you're picking up more work and you guys tag team and he high fives you on the way in and you go to work. Because right now we need a couple of thousand dollars a month to throw at this debt. Yes. That's the only way out.

1:52:40I mean, and again, getting out of that truck is going to be a real blessing if you can find the amount you're underwater on, about$10 ,000 and then sell it. Do you guys have any other vehicle you could use right now? No. That's your one car for the family? You only have one car. Well, there's a car with my lien on it and then the truck payment in the truck.

1:52:57Rachel Cruze:So we have two vehicles, but one has a lien and one's a loan for a car. Right, but if you got rid of the truck and you took it down from$36 ,000 to$10 ,000 and you were a one-car family for a bit, you could do that. Okay. I mean, yeah, are you both on the same page that this is just crazy and you're never, ever, ever, ever going to touch debt again? Yes, absolutely. Do you both feel that? He feels that too? Yes. Okay. Yeah. So, I mean, this is going to be a, this will be a journey, Brittany, but, and it's going to create a lot of sacrifice for you guys. Meaning like that, like that kind of thing, right?

1:53:34Rachel Cruze:You're taking from 36 to 10, right? And, and that's a sacrifice, but for one year, two years until maybe we save up some cash on the side and buy a crappy$5 ,000 car for him. Like that, that's what it's going to be, you know? So like there has to be something drastic that changes from a lifestyle perspective and income perspective. And it's going to cause you guys to be really, really uncomfortable. And it's going to be hard. It's going to be really hard. But it's doable. That's the wild thing is that you guys may look up and be like, okay, maybe he can actually, yeah, work longer and pick up some more routes and bring in an extra two grand a month.

1:54:13Rachel Cruze:And then Brittany, on the weekends, you're working somewhere, you know, bringing in two grand a month. And that's an extra four grand. You know what I'm saying? Like it's these opportunities, but it costs time. It costs energy. You guys are going to be really tired, but it's not your whole lives. It is going to be for a season of your life, probably two to three years. But then you look on the other end of this, George, and it's like, okay, we did it. But the only way out is that. That's the hard thing. I wish there was an easy button. Well, you tried those easy buttons and there were shortcuts into more debt.

1:54:46And so now we got to do it the hard way, which is make more, spend less, use the margin to knock out the next smallest debt and the next smallest debt. So no, the lien doesn't need to go to the top of the debt snowball. You just need to put these all in the debt snowball and attack the little one with a vengeance and cut your lifestyle down to nothing.

1:55:02Rachel Cruze:And the good thing is, too, you know, like once that credit card, because I'm sure the interest rate is 25, 28 percent, who knows? you know once that's paid off you know the the interest and the payment right is freed up so that's a that's a couple you know hopefully hundred bucks right that you keep throwing at the other debt and so you'll start to get some momentum but it's going to be a it's going to be a a trip around the sun george for it's a stark reminder it's so easy to go into debt in america at every corner you can rob the 401k get the personal loan max out the credit card get a lien against your card, even if it's paid off.

1:55:39And then it's so hard to get out.

1:55:41Rachel Cruze:Take a little bit of an income setback and you just fill it in with the credit card and you just keep on moving. I mean, you see how it happens, right? The problem is even when you make more, it doesn't necessarily mean that you're going to save more or have more because your lifestyle creeps up with it. That's right. And we find that a third of people making six figures, it's even edging up to about half now, are paycheck to paycheck. Yeah. They're filling up. And here's a good example. You guys are making great money, well above the average household income in America, and there's not much to show for it because of all these debt payments.

1:56:13So that would give me some anger and urgency to get out of this once and for all for your family, for those kids, for your future. You guys are worth that. So find whatever income you can, cut whatever expenses you can, and get on the same page and get on a plan to go never again.

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1:57:46Rachel Cruze:Our scripture of the day comes from Deuteronomy 8.18. Remember the Lord your God, for it is He who gives you the ability to produce wealth, and so confirms His covenant, which He swore to your ancestors as it is today. Zig Ziglar said Rich people have small TVs And big libraries And poor people have small libraries And big TVs Sick burn from Zig There you go What you value

1:58:19Rachel Cruze:And he was a Big in the 80s and 90s world Do you remember those big The old school TVs The old school big TVs I don't even know how you got it into your house They look like they were 2 ,000 pounds. I know. Oh, man. Too good. All right. Let's head to Noah in Springfield, Missouri. Hi, Noah. Welcome to the show. Hi. Thank you all for taking the call. Absolutely. How can we help? Well, I'm 19, and I'm looking at buying a house at the end of the year, and I just wanted to see what you guys would do in my situation. Well, nice. Why are you wanting to buy? Well, I'm thinking$200 ,000 is the max that I can buy.

1:59:05I have$34 ,500 saved up. I'll make another$8 ,000. That's a base pay minus my monthly expenses by the end of November. The big bulk of my money is RNCDs. They don't expire until the end of November. I got a credit score of$741 ,000.

1:59:27Rachel Cruze:Okay, what kind of consumer debt do you have, Noah? None. Zero debt, amazing. What are you making a year? Or you said 8K a month is what you're bringing home? You said that's how much you can add to the down payment fund? Yeah, so I'll make another 8K in five, six months. What do you make a month? What's your after-tax income monthly?

1:59:52$2 ,100 or$2 ,200. That's how much you make per month? Yes. So you're making like 24-year take-home? No, it's$41 ,000 a year. Okay. So you're talking—I'm just confused on the math. Okay. Well, I budget for—I get paid bi-monthly, so$1 ,100 a paycheck base pay. And that's two times a month? Yes. Okay. So that is$2 ,200 a month.

2:00:25Rachel Cruze:Yeah. Did you get a big tax refund? No. Well, here's our housing parameter, Noah, just so you understand. We recommend the mortgage payment be no more than a quarter of your after-tax monthly income on a 15-year fixed rate mortgage. So I just crunched the numbers here for you on our mortgage calculator. A$200 ,000 home with$42 ,000 down on a 15-year fixed, you're looking at about$1 ,700 out of your$2 ,200. Okay. So that is, you're going to be poor. You're going to have$200 left over to basically fund everything else in your life. So you're not ready to buy a home, and I don't think you're in desperate need of a home.

2:01:07Are you living with family right now or renting?

2:01:10Rachel Cruze:I'm rent-free with family right now. Okay. I would work on your income. That's going to be your greatest wealth-building tool. It's going to give you the ability to buy a home one day and afford the mortgage payment. But right now, you should be focused on, how can I make more in my career? Okay. Yeah, because that monthly payment's going to be kind of your make or break, Noah, just on what you really can afford. And if you keep saving up a big down payment, that'll be great because hopefully you'll continue to get raises over the next few years. And I wouldn't rush into the housing market. When you're ready to buy a home, that's going to be a great time, but it may be in another three to four years and that's okay.

2:01:49Rachel Cruze:And you can rent in the meantime or, you know, where you are. But I, and when the CDs expire, I would take them out of CDs and I would put them in a high yield savings account. Our friends at Fairwinds Credit Union is a great, that's a great place to open an account. You can get a free checking account and they have a great high yield savings option too. And so I would put my money in there versus a CD and yeah, and just keep piling money because you do want a fully funded emergency fund as well on top of your down payment. So some of that$34 ,000 can be set aside as an emergency fund. And just continue.

2:02:25Rachel Cruze:Yeah, I mean, I would say I love the motivation that you have, Noah. And where you are financially is amazing. Like the fact you have no debt, the fact you have$34 ,000 saved, and you have a goal that you're working towards for this home, like all of this is so great. And so I would say I just, I wouldn't be as urgent as maybe you are and give yourself a little bit of time to get that income up. Okay, so just right in the meantime? Yeah, just rent or keep living with family. I mean, you're 19. I would just focus on what can I do to grow this career, grow this income so I can speed up this process.

2:02:59But you're on the right path.

2:03:00Rachel Cruze:Well done. All right, let's go to Nathan in Rochester, New York. Hi, Nathan. Welcome to the show. Hi, thank you for having me. Absolutely. How can we help? So about nine months ago, I bought a truck for about$29 ,000. I sat down recently with everything again I still owe$29 ,000 on it and I'm making my payments every month and I need help trying to figure out how to get out of this situation What's the interest rate? About 14 % Well that'll do it Ouch The interest payment you're making is probably as much as your monthly payment so they're just washing each other out How much can you sell it for Nathan?

2:03:42I just got it quoted for$17 ,500 Why is it so low? Did you roll over negative equity? No, I did not.

2:03:50Rachel Cruze:Was it for a trade-in or a personal sale? And where did you get it quoted? It was at a local dealership. I was looking. I was just trying to figure out what I could get it for, and they evaluated it at$17 ,500. Who's they? The dealership? Yeah, the dealership, yes. Well, that's the worst place to get it valued. I would look at the private party value on Kelley Blue Book because there's no way a$29 ,000 car nine months later worth$17 ,000. No, it should be more like$22 ,000-ish probably. Now, obviously, you got screwed on this deal, so they may have sold you a$17 ,000 car for$29 ,000 for all I know.

2:04:24I'm especially charging you 14 % interest. Was your credit just shot? No, I don't remember exactly what it was, but it was around the high 780s. How did you get a 14 % interest? I mean, I just don't understand that. Yeah, I don't know. Do you have any other debt? Like everything, no, I do not. It's that, so when I bought the truck, I was, at my job, I was making$28 an hour. And then at the end of, beginning of this year, my whole company got let go. And I've taken a almost$7 pay cut at my current job. What are you making now? For the base salary. Right around$21.62 an hour. Okay, so about$44 ,000,$45 ,000 a year probably?

2:05:11Correct. Okay. Okay. Well, this truck needs to go. And so you might need to save up the amount you're underwater on just to get rid of it, and that would still be worth it. And you go get you a beater car to get you from A to B in the meantime until you can save up and buy something used in cash. But there's no other way to get out of the payments. That plus all the insurance. Because I'm 21, my insurance is around$300 a month. Yeah, that's expensive for a young guy. A lot of risk for the insurance companies. yep and with all with the gas and everything at the end of every month i'm scrunching pennies to try and if your credit score is still good i'd go down to your local credit union and see if they can give you a loan for the difference you're underwater on but still try to get top dollar for it that might be private party that might be like a carvon or carmax but just see how small you can make that gap you're underwater on get a loan for the different difference plus some to get you a beater car from a to b and you'll be out of this thing and be able to save up and and your

2:06:09Rachel Cruze:payments are going to, it's going to, you're going to feel the difference of what you're doing now and it's not making a dent, right? Versus a, I don't know, a$12 ,000 loan from the, you know, that you pay off the difference and then go get, go get a beater car. It'll have a lowered interest rate. Yes. For sure. And yeah. What's your payment right now? I'm paying 586 a month. Ouch. Plus the 300 in interest. So you're going to be. And it's not even doing a dent to the loan. That just hurts. Well, you're probably paying 586 in interest. So every month it's just – it's not moving the needle on the balance.

2:06:42And so that's the issue. I looked at the loan. It's like$11.14 a day on interest. Ouch. Gosh.

2:06:51Rachel Cruze:Yeah, and Nathan, remember this rule of thumb too, that your – what you have in motors and wheels should be no more than half of your annual take-home pay. And you exceeded that getting a$30 ,000 truck while making$45 ,000 a year. So keep those vehicles below that so that you don't get stuck in the situation again. Thanks for the call. Thanks to everyone in the booth. George, thanks for a great show. And thank you, America. And remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

2:07:35Thank you.