There's No Financial Progress Without A Plan

23:17I don't think my heart can handle a self-driving car. I don't think that I could do it.

23:21George Kamel:Here's the thing. I trust robots more than humans at this point as far as their safety. If they were all self-driving cars, maybe that's different. But as long as like... Here's my challenge to you. Next time you're driving, look over at every car and see how many of them are just texting on their phones. Oh, I know. Scrolling Instagram, not even paying attention. At least the robots have like sensors and cameras. They're trying. That's true. Humans have just given up. They've given up. I'm like, they're on Instacart. They're on... I'm like, what are you doing? Don't you see your very life is at stake?

23:51Anyway. There we go.

23:52George Kamel:Moving on. Get your will. Michael's in Fort Myers, Florida. What's going on, Michael? Hey, guys. So I'm 22 years old, got married eight months ago, and we are currently living in a family friend's house. They are missionaries, so they're out of the country for a year until next June. So they're renting to us at$800 a month plus utilities, which comes to about$1 ,300 a month. And my question is, when June comes, Should my wife and I either rent a place nearby, rent an apartment until we can save up for a down payment for a house? Should we go immediately and use all first-time homebuyer benefits to buy a house?

24:36George Kamel:Or my parents are offering us to stay at their place for six months while we are able to save up some money for a down payment. What do you guys make a month? Currently$7 ,000 plus commission. Amazing. So what are you doing with all that extra money? Sounds like your expenses are super low. Well, currently we have$27 ,000 in car payments, or well, in car loan total. Okay. Anything else? Any other debt? No, that's it. No student loans? No credit cards? No student loans. No credit cards. Okay. So how long would it take you to save up a down payment to where you have a mortgage that's no more than 25 % of your take-home pay?

25:24Well, I think theoretically if I see there's some first-time homebuyer programs that allow you to do 3.5.

25:33George Kamel:Wrong answer. We said how long is it going to take you to save up a down payment, not how do you get into a 0 % mortgage where your underwater day one broke with a huge mortgage payment because you have 100 % mortgage. That's what you're telling us. Got it. So this is, we're talking a 15 year fixed rate mortgage where the payment's no more than a quarter of your take home pay. So when you use our mortgage calculator at Ramsey solutions.com, it'll show you pretty quickly what kind of house you can actually afford. Not what the bank says you can afford, not what the FHA USDA loan says you can afford.

26:07So let's work this plan. Let's kind of work this out for you to help you out. So first things first is we need to pay off the debt that you have. So this is the order in which this will take place so that you can purchase this house when the time comes and it can be a blessing for you and not a burden to where you're not calling us back a year and a half later saying I'm underwater in my house. I'm struggling with my house payment. Okay, so the first thing what we need to do is tackle the debt. And the way we're going to do that is we're going to start by saving up a thousand bucks, just getting that little money aside just in case, because from that point on, we're going to put all extra money, all savings towards paying off this debt, this$27 ,000 car debt that you have.

26:47George Kamel:How much do you guys have in savings? Well, currently a thousand dollars because we're trying to pay off the debt. Okay, great. So you understand that part. and I want you tonight, your homework, if you haven't already, is I want you to get on every dollar and then I want you to calculate how long with the margin and the income that you have, how long will it take you to pay off this$27 ,000 of car debt? So that's your homework. Then the next thing after you've paid the debt off is now we need to have an emergency fund because you can't be out here buying a house. You can't buy a$400 ,000 house and then when the $4 ,000 AC blows out, you're up a creek, right?

27:22That doesn't make sense. So you got to have some money saved to be able to actually care for the house and the things that go along with home ownership. So you need three to six months of expenses saved in an emergency fund that comes after you've paid off the debt. And then now we can start saving up a down payment. So you've got a ways to go. You guys are newlyweds for crying out loud. You're 22.

27:42George Kamel:You're doing great. You got a long ways to go. You're not in a rush. You're not in a hurry. So let's take your time and do it right. I gave you, can I give you some napkin math to help you with this, Michael? I think it'll give you some motivation. Yeah, please. You make seven grand a month. Could you throw 4 ,500 of this at your debt if you got real intense? Probably. Every month. Okay. Then your debt is gone in six months. So February of 26, you're debt free. Tracking? Mm-hmm. Now take the car payments plus the 4 ,500. You could throw five grand a month toward that emergency fund, couldn't you?

28:13George Kamel:Yeah. Four more months, we have 20 grand. Still tracking? Mm-hmm. We're at June of 26. Your missionary friends are back. You guys go and rent somewhere completely debt-free, still making$7 ,000 plus commission. Now you could save five, six grand a month toward a down payment fund, couldn't you? Yeah. That's 60, 70 grand a year. So now we're renting for a year or two. We have a six figure down payment, no debt with an emergency fund. Do you feel how peaceful it would be to buy a house like that? Yeah, definitely. And by the way, you're like, I don't know, 24 by then? Just a young gun. Just a whippersnapper.

28:52George Kamel:And there's no law in America as it stands that says you have to buy a home by 25 or else you're a loser. That's just what social media told you. Oh, gosh. Otherwise, I'd 100 % be the loser. Hey, I've been called the loser for other reasons. So I hope that encourages you, Michael. You're doing better than you think. But I would not rent with family. I would just go rent somewhere. You got to be with your spouse. Because when I'm at my mom's house, here's what happens. Mom says, no, no, no, don't lift a finger. I'll fold that laundry. Let me cook. Let me grab your plate. And there's something about being an adult and leaving the whole leave and cleave and being one with your spouse to go, I'm an independent grown man.

29:30George Kamel:Let's visit for the holidays. You went to the nice example. I'm like, you're in your room. You're with your lady. And here's mama knocking on the door. And you're like, I brought snacks. You're like, now's not the time. Well, my wife's going to be very happy to hear that. Yeah. And you guys, if you guys were in like some real desperate stage of life and you needed a place to crash for a little bit, sure. There's no crisis happening here. You guys are making great money. You're going to get rid of the car payments fast. You've got a good housing situation. Use it to your advantage to get to a better place financially and avoid the FHA, VA, USDA.

30:04George Kamel:Stick with the conventional fixed rate loan. 15 years is going to set you guys up for success. Because think about this. If you get a house at 25, let's say, and you get a 15-year loan, worst case, if you just make the minimum mortgage payment, you are completely debt-free by 40. You know how weird that makes you in America today? Yeah. So just know it's not going to happen tomorrow, but if you just follow through on this plan to a T and don't veer from it, you will be completely debt-free by 40, worst case. and likely what's going to happen is you'll be debt-free by 34 because you're going to go, oh, we can knock this out in nine years instead of 15 because you did it the right way with margin.

30:43Michael, be honest. Did we convince you?

30:46George Kamel:You convinced me. You convinced me. One other question, if I could. We do plan on having kids within this time frame. Would that affect any of the finances or anything? Oh, yeah, it's all out the window. Forget I said anything. I'm kidding. I mean, you're going to have some things pop up. Yeah, definitely have the kids. Yeah, you might have some daycare costs pop up. Obviously, like George said, he did napkin math for you, so there's going to be some variables in there that change. But by and large, you're still on track to do exactly what he said. If you save$4 ,000 instead of$5 ,000, you're still going to be just fine.

31:17George Kamel:The key is, can you live on less than you make and use the surplus to get through the baby steps? That is the key, regardless of the number. Now, the bigger the number, the better. It's going to speed it up. But kids are a blessing. and if that's in the cards for you guys, go for it. You'll be making more money too. All of it balances out. Thanks for the call, Michael. This is The Ramsey Show.

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33:31George Kamel:If you're enjoying today's show or any episodes of The Ramsey Show, be sure to hit the like button, hit the subscribe button, hit the share button, send it to someone that you like. Hey, even someone you hate, that could be even more fun. Really tee them off. Oh, yeah. But it's a great way to help spread the word about the show, and it kicks up the algorithms and helps us get hope to more people, and that's what we need in America and beyond right now is some hope. Madison is in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. What's going on, Madison? Hi. I am a teacher and my husband has a pretty good job in the city.

34:07And we have a son and I had no intentions of being a stay-at-home mom, but now after a year and a half, I would love to be a stay-at-home mom.

34:15George Kamel:Love it. Love finds a way, doesn't it? Tell us the limitations you feel you're facing in doing that. So being an educator, I have really good health benefits. I have a decent amount of time off in the summer and holidays. So I do feel like it is a best case scenario job being a mom. But we have a house, so we did our whole budget and everything before we had the baby off of two incomes. Of course. So to go down to one income I think is terrifying. What does it do when you were to go, if you were to go down to one income, what does that do mortgage wise for you? So what percentage does your mortgage eat up of that one income?

35:00Um, I would say my salary covers the mortgage. So what's your husband's salary? 120. Okay. So what's he actually taking home every month? uh that's a month he is taking oh my gosh i feel like i don't even know that's okay is it like seven or eight seven or eight yes okay so let's say 7500 and then how much is your mortgage our mortgage right now is 3300 okay yeah i mean you go it's that's tight edging up to half your

35:33George Kamel:income half the take-home pay going toward that mortgage which is a lot now is that does he investing right now in his 401k and is he covering some health care premiums through his checks um yes so he unfortunately can't be on my health care so i cover it for my son and i um but yeah he is a big in retirement like he is putting money aside and all that okay also he puts money into an account for our son's education okay i just want to be clear that our 25 percent parameter is about your after tax income but before other deductions like health care premiums or retirement investing, which could help your numbers.

36:08It could help them a lot. So I think that'd be your homework is go home and find out what that number is. Again, just the after-tax amount, like George said, and then say, okay, what percentage will our mortgage be of that money? Now, if you're like 30, you're fine. Like you can make that work. Even maybe up to 35, you possibly could make that work for a while.

36:27George Kamel:It's like nothing's on fire. It'll just be tighter and a little bit slower to get through the baby steps. But if you start creeping to the 40s, you're going to really feel that. So my next question for you would be, do you guys have any debt? So right now we just have our mortgage and my husband's student loan debt, but those are the only two debts that we have. How much is a student loan debt? 90. Girlfriend. How are you going to save that to last? Right now he doubles what he puts towards his student loan. We're on track to have that paid off in seven years. Can I challenge you guys? That plan sucks.

37:05Mm-hmm. Oh.

37:06George Kamel:So what I would have him do is pause investing, which is going to hurt his soul, isn't it? Because he loves investing. Yes. You know what else it does? Lights a fire under him to get rid of those student loans so he can get back to doing what he loves, which is investing. Because right now he's essentially borrowing money to invest. That's what you're doing by delaying your debt payments to invest instead. Okay. So, Madison, is it one baby or two? um we just have one right now but love the idea of one more um and we're also it's i feel like it's like a blessing and a curse but even if we had another baby my my salary is still more than child care would be so so i feel physical pain when i'm away from my i get it listen you're preaching to the choir i understand um uh those the the mortgage piece of this is a very large piece of this puzzle and you doing the due diligence with your husband to figure that out.

38:03And then$90 ,000 of student loans is a big piece of this puzzle. If I were in your shoes as a mom of two and understanding what it feels like to leave babies at home, I would play out both scenarios because there is a piece of this that the relational part matters. You wanting to be at home with the kids and having that time, that matters. But quality of life throughout that time also does matter, right? So if you keep the$90 ,000 of debt and the mortgage is 50%, that's just you literally being at home with the kids because y 'all don't have any money to go anywhere. So there's part of this where you do want to play that out and go, what would it look like?

38:42Maybe just six more months of working could really change this scenario. Maybe 12 more months of working could really turn this around to where we could pay off this debt. And then when we have baby number two or during that period. Do you see what I'm saying? So I don't think that I would jump right into this if you care whatsoever about how staying at home feels financially. But again, that's for you and your husband. I mean, I don't think there's not a wrong answer or does that make sense?

39:14George Kamel:Yeah. Well, I mean, there's a math problem here and there's also an emotional, non-logical thing here, which is I just want to stay home with that baby. And if you're really wanting that, then it's going to require sacrifices. And those sacrifices might mean, hey, we need to downsize the house. You need to go make more income. Or you need to do something part-time when he's at home watching the baby. If you want to make this work for now. Now, if you get out of debt and you have an emergency fund, it's going to change the game for you guys and reduce the stress. Do you have money saved? How much?

39:46Yeah, our savings account right now is like$17 ,000. Okay. Okay. So essentially, that kind of puts you, you know, gives you a little boost on the debt. Because if you choose to do it our way, which I did it this way, George did it this way, what we do is we say, okay, we keep$1 ,000 aside. That is just our temporary basic emergency fund. And everything else goes towards our debt so we can get it paid off really, really fast. And so for you to do that, yeah, that drops you down. And now you're in the 70s instead of in the 90s. And you can clip through that a lot faster, especially if you're both working.

40:23George Kamel:And he pauses investing. And he pauses investing. And you guys throw a little over$4 ,000 a month toward the student loans. Well, they're gone in 18 months. A few months later, you have your emergency fund. So now it's like, okay, what if in two years I stayed home once I have the second baby? And for now, we do the daycare thing or we find an alternative route for child care. That might be the way you go. I'm not saying you guys don't decide you're not going to do it today. But if you want peaceful finances in the meantime, and both of you aren't stressed out your eyeballs, you might want to just go, hey, we're going to still accomplish this dream.

40:54George Kamel:But here's the timeline and here's what we're going to do. We're not going to do 19 things at once. We're going to do the baby steps with focus because we both agreed this is the priority. It's getting me to this place. If I was voting on your situation, I'd vote for plan number two, which is you get everything on the right footing. You pay off the debt. maybe it takes a little bit longer just you and the workforce a little bit longer and then that's what I would do and I did have one more question so everyone talks to me all the time about this magical pension that eventually I will get is it worth getting like giving that up what was that the teachers like your teacher's pension yes I mean when you say magical I would say no because, I mean, don't get me wrong, it's nice to contribute to something and have funds there.

41:41But the best way that you can, to me, the best possible way is when you have more control over the funds. So if you're contributing the same 15 % and you're choosing the funds in a Roth IRA, or you open another vehicle, I think that that is just as great.

41:57George Kamel:What Jade's trying to say is pensions perform very poorly and they die with you. But if you invest on your own, you're going to see higher returns with more control and you can pass that money down generationally. And so pensions aren't, they're not all what they are cracked up to be. They're the, Hey, if you got one, great, I'm happy for you, but I would not stick with this career for 25 years and I'm, you know, let down the dream of being a stay at home mom, all for a pension. You can create your own wealth and your own sort of passive income through your nest egg later on down the road. And so this is going to be a tough conversation with your husband.

42:28George Kamel:I feel like you're more on board to do whatever it takes. And he might be like, ugh, I'm not giving up investing. Forget what those Ramsey guys said. I know better. Right? Let him listen to this call. Yeah, I will. And we grew up very differently. He was definitely, had a little bit more heartache financially growing up. And I, my parents were Dave Ramsey fans. They kind of instilled that in us. Okay. So we have different like life upbringing. So I think it scares him to go down to one income where I'm like, let's just take the risk. Well, it won't be a risk if you do it the right way, which is what George and I taught you this boat close to the dock if you follow the baby steps with intensity for another 18 to 24 months.

43:07George Kamel:We are rooting for you to be at home with that baby, Madison. Best of luck.

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45:03George Kamel:Live from the Ramsey Network, this is The Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships. I'm Ramsey personality George George Camel, joined by bestselling author Jade Warshaw, and we're taking your calls at 888-825-5225. Erin is in Danbury, Connecticut. What's going on, Erin? Oh, hi, George and Jade. So nice to talk with both of you. You too. What's going on? I, yeah, I wanted to run something by someone else that I've been thinking about, a plan my parents told me they're going to do for retirement. and I'm just trying to figure out if it sounds like at best it just has some pitfalls or if at worst it's sketchy okay all right so they have found a retirement community that they think is spectacular they've put a little um like down down payment on like a waiting list and they told me about the entrance fees and I can't understand like the idea of a refundable scalable entrance fee.

46:13What do you mean like every time you drive up or like a club fee? Oh no that's a good question. No like a down payment on living there. Yes. So you could pay like for example four hundred thousand dollars for like a two-person condo and you don't get any refunds or you pay like almost a million dollars and get like 90 back in a year or something to be on the waiting list you're saying well after the waiting list this would be like they would pay a huge sum of money to these people but they have a choice like help me understand 400 000 for example and not get any well that's what i don't understand are you talking about a down payment on the house are you talking about like a like a fee for being part of the club and having amenities are you talking about some sort of fee to be on the waiting list it's like a retirement community where they're gonna like plan to live for the rest of their lives understood so it's like just to live there forever So you're saying they're going to pay$400 ,000 on top of the price of the home just to live there?

47:23Right, on top of the monthly fees, yeah. But the people who go up the sliding scale and pay like a million dollars get like some kind of 90 % refund after a year or something? It just seems really weird to me. I'll be honest, I'm having a hard time understanding it because I don't think you also have all the information.

47:44George Kamel:Have you talked to them? personally? Well, so that's, yeah, so that's a good question. And I don't have powdered butt syndrome. I'm not going to tell them what to do at all, but I'm trying to like gauge where it could potentially affect my life. Like, oh, I have this kind of money. Um, it might be like most of, of their nest egg. Yeah. When they, yeah. When they go in, does that include the residents is what I'm trying to find out. Does the 400 ,000 include where they will actually live? Yes. Okay. So they're like a monthly fee on top of that. So they're paying$400 ,000 for a townhouse. Is it a condo?

48:25Is it a single family? What is it? Right. It's like a single family, but they won't own it. It's just, then they get to like move when they get a little older into like another dwelling. Because the idea is this is essentially the last place you live. Yeah, exactly. So it's like a ladder. Yeah, there's like a ladder for the entrance fees, which I don't understand.

48:46George Kamel:I would get clarity on that. I would say it doesn't sound like they're trying to scam you. This is pretty normal in the retirement community field. But it's kind of like a really high sort of HOA country club fee to buy in. That's really what's happening here. And it's covering their long-term future operating costs. And it's very capital intensive to run one of these places. And so that's kind of the skin in the game fee they charge to get in, knowing that you're going to be here for the rest of your life and we have to care for all of your needs. The question for you is how does this reflect on you if they change their mind?

49:22George Kamel:Are they going to be broken five or ten years if they do this? That's the scary part. What happens if this company gets sold and the rules change or it goes bankrupt? Oh, boy. I mean, I feel like we have to see the bylaws or like, I feel like I'd want to read that in the contract to find out is there any language around that, that sort of thing. So maybe just ask him, say, hey, you've been talking about this community. Can I go with you to your next meeting with the rep or whatever, however they're going and get your eyes on some of the literature so you can read through it. instead of going off of, because you know how sometimes your mom will explain something and it's like, wait, what?

50:01And they leave things out because they understand it, but they're leaving big chunks of it out. So maybe if you can just get in one of those rooms in one of those meetings and get your eyes on the actual papers and contracts, it'll make a little bit more sense.

50:14George Kamel:Yeah. And I would also look into alternative options for them. This is just one. And so I don't want them to get too starry-eyed because they were sold on the brochure and the landscaping. Kind of like what kids do with college. They're like, oh my gosh, it was an amazing tour and the people are so nice. Yes, and they're charging five times for that versus the place down the road. So I would look into other options. I would also research. Just start researching entrance fee for continuing care retirement communities and you can learn about it online and kind of get your bearings under you before you walk into that meeting so that you're more equipped.

50:45Or you could even call the place up and say, you know, keep them anonymous and say, hey, my parents are going to be living here. can I come down there and can you walk me through the through all of it so I understand just treat me as though I were somebody who was going to move in here and that way you could understand it

51:02George Kamel:yeah that's a good idea and see what the options are for waiving it what happens if they don't pay that is there no way to get in if they don't pay the upfront fee since there's varying levels anyways so I would just look into all the options and do a whole bunch of homework wishing you the best of luck you're an awesome daughter for doing that But Corey is up in Florida. What's going on, Corey? Hey, guys. Wow. I'm so excited to talk to both of you. So thank you for taking my call. Yeah, we're happy to talk to you. What's your question today? So I am a 27-year-old pilot not currently working in aviation.

51:37George Kamel:My wife and I have$328 ,000 in debt. Um, mostly it's a$246 ,000 mortgage,$52 ,000 in student loans, uh, from flight school and $23 ,000 truck loan. Um, we make about$110 ,000 a year combined, bringing home, uh,$7 ,430 a month, uh, no kids. And, um, my question is, I really want to get back into aviation, but as you know, uh, I think I've heard you guys talk about it maybe once before. Aviation is very expensive, and it would take a lot for me to get back into it. I have a commercial pilot's license, but I'm not quite experienced enough. I don't have enough hours to really get a job right now. What's it going to cost to float that gap?

52:27George Kamel:I think being realistic, if I paid for all of it, be about$15 ,000, I think that I could really get some time in and pay for some of it just to get back into it. So$15 ,000 gets you to the dream job with making more money? In part, yes. What's your truck worth? It's going on the market tomorrow, by the way. It's worth$22 ,000. I'm cleaning it up to take some pictures of it. Honestly, we just got blessed with her. Her parents wanted to give us a car and her sister wanted to give us a car. Good, good. Amazing. Two cars coming in that are reliable. So you're out in a truck. With the freed up truck payment, why don't you use that and commit that to savings and save up that 15 grand to get you the education?

53:17George Kamel:And then you'll tackle the student loans. That's all that's left other than the mortgage. So the debt's not as much as you think. You can tackle this pretty fast, get aggressive with it. to get to that pilot job. And hopefully you can double your household income, man. Cheering you on. Love that.

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55:16George Kamel:with low fixed rate refinancing. So go to whyrefi.com slash Ramsey to learn more. That's the letter Y, R-E-F-Y.com slash Ramsey. May not be available in all states. All right. Today's question comes from Carl in Georgia. He says, I'm very disappointed with what you advise regarding combining all funds together when married. What about when you've been married less than two years and the couple gets married later in life? My wife showed me your video and says she wants her name added to everything I have. Do you think I'm supposed to put her name on everything I had before marriage and then she gets half of that if we divorce?

55:58This caused a major problem and she has moved out. No man on earth would give everything he had before marriage in his wife's name. Please explain yourself.

56:10George Kamel:I love this question so much from Carl. Listen, Carl, I'm going to have to take a quick breather because Carl is making me mad. I just love that Carl in the question, blaming us for the dissolution of his marriage, is very telling about how Carl acts in his normal everyday life. Carl, I'm going to tell you, just because something is your second marriage doesn't mean it should be no, have no, you know, it's a marriage is still built on the same things. A good marriage is still built on the same things. It's still trust, right? There's still those levels that need to be there. So clearly, even in your second marriage, you're like, there's something about this woman that I don't feel like I can trust her because you're not willing to share your finances with her.

56:54You're not willing to put her name on your assets. And you're already anticipating a divorce because you're saying, well, what will happen when we divorce? And I don't know about you, but I don't feel warm and cushy going into a relationship like that. Now, don't get me wrong. There are some things that we can plan for. Let's say he had millions and millions of dollars. Second marriage. He's got children and she's got, you know, the person he's marrying has nothing. There are some caveats in there and some nuance that can be discussed. But it kind of just sounds like you guys are just kind of like two folks, like two regular folks like me or George.

57:29George Kamel:And it sounds like Carl was already on thin ice. And then she saw this video and went, hey, here's what these Ramsey people said. and that sort of exposed the deeper issues in the marriage. And he didn't like that. If she said, hey, I want to combine everything and that made you mad, you must have given her the smoke for her to just up and move out, is what I'm saying. So you already were feeling some type of way about this whole idea. So the problem, my friend, is not with George or I. The problem was you signed up. The man in the mirror. The problem is the man in the mirror. I know that's right.

58:02George Kamel:Here's my thing. if I buy a house the day before I get married and then I go, hey, Whitney, not putting your name on this house, but you better pay half the rent, half the mortgage. Also, you're not getting any equity in this house because I owned it before we were married. Oh, Lord. Oh, gosh, that's a recipe for a beatdown. I'll be lucky to sleep on the couch in my own house. I know, that's right. It's just that attitude crushes relationships, crushes marriages. Yeah, there's zero trust there. And it's kind of like the opposite. You know, here we quote Zig Ziglar, if you aim at nothing, you hit it every time.

58:33It's almost the opposite. If you're aiming at something to dissolve or possibly divorce, it's like, then that's likely what's going to happen because you've put that out there. And it's almost like you've created a target of when we divorce, when we go our separate ways. And there's no way that you can avoid that. I mean, I don't know about you, George. When I was married, the advice I got was you never even need to say the word divorce. Like you just need to, don't even put it in there and just act like every problem is a problem that can be solved. And I mean, we know there's limits here, but do you see what I'm saying?

59:05George Kamel:Here's the funny thing. If you live your life and live your marriage with the gloves up in front of your face, eventually you're going to be in a boxing match. 100. Love that, George. That's how it works. But when you live your life hands wide open, hey, there's no ring here. We're all in this together. We're on the same team. Amazing things happen. You build wealth exponentially together. And that's what my wife and I have done from day one. We had one joint checking account, one joint savings account her name's on everything and this is harder to do later in life when you've lived independently and you go wait this is my money that I earned and whatever she earns she can do that what she wants what happens when she stays at home well then I guess I'll give her an allowance okay so you're going to treat your wife like a child and hope this marriage is successful good luck with that bro good luck with that that's what we've seen happen in reality so Carl I'm sorry I really hate that this is happening I hope there's hope for this marriage but do not blame us because the problems were exposed in your marriage.

1:00:02Yeah, he said no man on earth would give everything he had before marriage in a wife's name. I don't...

1:00:09George Kamel:Listen. I think you've created a category unto yourself, Carl. I thought I liked every Carl I've ever met until this one. Carl. Whenever I think of the name Carl, I think of On the Walking Dead and the son's name was Carl. I was thinking Carl Winslow and that's very telling of our... No, Carl Winslow's a good one. Carl. Okay, thank you. Carl Lagerfeld. There's a lot of good curls. You lost me on that. A lot of great curls in the world. Is that a sports reference? No, fashion. Oh, okay. Sports and fashion, the two things I missed out on. Carl Lewis. Track? 0 for 3. 0 for 3. All right, Justin is in Huntsville, Alabama.

1:00:43George Kamel:What's going on, Justin? Hey, so I'm calling in today. I've just got a brief question. I'm about to get married in about a month and a half. Woo! My fiance is in school full-time and working full-time. Um, she is carrying about$20 ,000 in student debt. She's going to be a teacher. I'm self-employed and I am debt free. Thankfully, I have a little bit of money saved up and I do have some goals and aspirations. We do, uh, to make some investments, to leave things to our grandchildren, hopefully one day. But I want to make sure that we're doing the right thing financially as soon as we get married for setting ourselves up to reach those goals and how to take care of this student debt that she has.

1:01:37George Kamel:I love that mentality. How much money do you have right now in savings? About$50 ,000. Good for you. And the wedding is paid for? Yes, her parents and my parents both have contributed to that. Beautiful. So it sounds like day one after you come back from the honeymoon combine the checking account and write a check and pay off the student loans okay and then you still have an emergency fund on top of that sitting there right um well the 50 000 was kind of part of that you have 30 50 minus 20 for her student loans you still have 30 left over absolutely is that absolutely is that three to six months of your basic budget?

1:02:21It should be. I mean, it takes about$500 a month for me. And then for her, we're thinking it'll add another$300 a month. How are y 'all living? You live in like a shoebox? My grandparents worked really hard and my dad and I are business partners together. and my grandparents You're telling me your entire expenses

1:02:48George Kamel:to run your life is$500. I live pretty cheap. I drive an old truck. How old are you? I've got a landscaping company. You rent? I'm 23. Okay, so you're still on your parents' insurance, still on their health insurance, still on their car insurance. What are you paying for, a phone and food? Actually, no. My business pays for everything. I've got it set up that way. My dad and my business covers everything, phone, insurance, all of that. But if you run the business, isn't that profits you would have taken home that are going out as expenses?

1:03:29In regards to the business itself, just can you restate that? I'm sorry.

1:03:34George Kamel:Let's say you're paying$100 for the phone through the business. That's great, but that's$100 you're not taking home that you're instead putting out there as an expense. So I just don't want to pretend like you have no expenses. When you really do, you're just running them through the business as sort of a write-off, I imagine. Exactly. So it's covering your utilities. It's covering your vehicle and your insurance, and you're on your parents' health and medical insurance. So, yeah, you have low expenses. Just remember, it's not going to stay that way. $30 ,000 of an emergency fund is perfectly fine for you now.

1:04:09George Kamel:So which means as soon as you're married, you're debt-free with an emergency fund. Now we can begin investing for retirement, 15 % of our household income, and saving up a down payment for a house as a newlywed couple. You guys are in great shape, Justin. I'm cheering for you, man. That's awesome. Way to go. She's lucky to have you. You're lucky to have her. That's the kind of marriage you want, where you both feel like you got the longer end of the stick. And when he's willing to put her name on the stuff. That's right. He's combining finances day one, unlike Carl.

1:04:43Thank you.

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1:05:59George Kamel:Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm George Campbell, joined by Jade Warshaw. Give us a call, 888-825-5225. And if you're tired of living paycheck to paycheck, feeling like you can't get ahead, you got to join one of our free every dollar trainings. There's new trainings every week this month. They're all hosted by one of our Ramsey personalities, Jade and myself included. We're going to show you how to stick to a budget and even find$9 ,000 of margin using every dollar so you can get out of debt and start building wealth. And that margin is that could be a one-time thing. It could be ongoing.

1:06:30George Kamel:All of it added up. Over$9 ,000 on average is what our users are seeing. Plus, you can ask us any question during the live Q &A. It's kind of like the Ramsey show, which is really fun, but a much smaller audience. And so join us. Sign up for free at RamseySolutions.com slash webinar, and you're in for a good time. Tony is in Indiana up next. What's going on, Tony? What ails you? Hi, how are you guys? I appreciate you taking my call. Sure. So this coming weekend, we've got my mother-in-law moving in with us. You sound stoked about it, man. Well, I'm trying to not have it affect me financially, not have it affect our marriage.

1:07:15George Kamel:You sound like a puppy whose tail stopped wagging. Just, oh, my mother-in-law. So why is she moving in? What's going on? What's the impetus for this? She's had some substance abuse issues. Okay. And we have convinced her to sell her condo, so she's at the point where she can walk away, pay all her debt, and not owe anybody anything. She'll probably have a few thousand dollars to her name, so she won't be hurt that way. So we're trying to help out and do the right thing. Is she working? No. She hasn't worked since October. Did she get help for the substance? That's been a thing, too. It's kind of voluntary, so there hasn't been any progress there.

1:08:05George Kamel:What do you mean voluntary? Well, I don't think they can make you go into a program. You have to do it on your own. But that would, I mean, if someone is moving into my house who has a history of substance abuse, there's no way I'm letting him in the front door unless there's clear progress towards healing, a.k.a. she is in a program, she's in AA, rehab, whatever it may be in her situation. Yeah. Do you have kids in the house? We have two kids, yes. That's a no for me, dog. That's a no even for your mother-in-law. I guess that's the biggest thing I'm wrestling with. It's my wife's mother, so we want to try.

1:08:41George Kamel:Yeah, I mean, you're creating an unsafe environment at that point. What's the nature of the substance? Is it like alcohol abuse? Is she on like opioids? Hard drugs? No, it's alcohol abuse. Okay. I think that you're, you, this is hard. Okay. So I don't want to say anything. It's, you know, I'm not trying to be trite here, but alcohol, that has an, there's an expression of that, right? When she's under the influence of that. And she has not said that she wants help with it. So you have to know that she's going to be in your environment under the influence of alcohol. And I don't know how she expresses that.

1:09:21Is it anger? Is it rage? Does she get really quiet? I don't know what that is, but you now know that your kids are going to experience that as well. So that's the part where I, unless she had said, I would like to get help, I would like to go to rehab that could paint a different picture but she has not said that so part of me wonders if you guys are not letting um consequences associated with her actions hit her so that she might then say you know i do need help and i'm not you know i'm not you know i wish dr john was here matter of fact if he's around here roll him in john come on in but now there needs to be a

1:09:58George Kamel:clear plan here of saying, hey, there's going to be a clear sobriety expectation. We need to have a plan. What happens if there is a relapse? We need to talk about all of this up front before any of this happens. Yeah, we've had that discussion about sobriety and being in the house. I just, I'm worried it's going to fail pretty quick. Well, because she's not been, she's not shown that she can do that. Is she willing and able to work? I want to say yes, but I mean, the fact that she's been unemployed for, you know, almost a full year now makes me question otherwise. I mean, a lot of it for me. I mean, that would be another expectation.

1:10:39George Kamel:You're going to be working 40 hours a week if you're going to be living with us while staying completely sober. Yeah. Otherwise, what are we doing? And I was completely detached from the situation. It would be a lot easier for me to make the call of it being a no. But like you said, it's a tough situation. And I just I want to not be like, I don't know. It's not you being rude about it. It's you setting the boundaries. And if she can't adhere to the boundaries, then that's her opting out. But why does she have to live with you? I understood her selling off the house to get out of debt. Why can't she now go to an apartment?

1:11:15And you guys say, OK, we took the you know, you had a couple thousand left off of the sale of your house after paying off your debt. That's your, you know, down payment on your on your apartment for some last month's rent. And then, Mom, it's up to you to keep this thing rolling. You got you got a fridge full of food. You got this. It's up to you to keep it rolling. What does her living with you do? Because you guys are not addiction specialists. So what is that? I'm trying to understand what does her living with you provide for her other than.

1:11:47George Kamel:A roof over her head. But she can have a roof over her head. In theory, but she hasn't been able to maintain a job since past October. So she's on the path of homelessness at this point. But has she ever gotten that close to where it's like, I'm on the street? Do you think that she'll let herself get that close? I honestly don't know. I guess we haven't gone that route of just saying good luck. You may have to see because if she's given, okay, your debt's gone. Here's your apartment. this is a a a rent that you can afford if you just go out and grab a job at walmart everything is here and you've you've gone over the budget here's what you need to earn here's some of the places that you can apply it's up to you mom to go like you know maybe you fund her first month and it's like it's up to you to keep this going versus you just giving her does that make sense and you're also putting your family in a very precarious situation situation yeah i would not do some kind of handshake deal in a way well i what i would do personally and this is not to be cruel but i would have her sign a house rules and sobriety agreement that has very clear stipulations very clear checkpoints as to what's going to happen and what happens if she doesn't comply and that's to be that's just to be kind because you've probably heard this phrase to be unclear is to be unkind to make up rules on the fly and kick her out when she's like whoa i didn't know and so just lay it all out there and say if you're gonna move in with us it's gonna be that you have 30 days to get a full-time job if you don't you're gonna need to go find your own place that's it and if you don't remain sober for the one if there's alcohol in this house you're out if you come home drunk you're out game over and then it's up to her she's a grown woman who makes her own decisions it's not you being cruel it's you saying here are the rules so that we can create a safe environment for our family which is your priority Yep.

1:13:46George Kamel:And your wife needs to be on board with this, too. It can't be like they're ganging up on you and they don't agree. You and your wife need to be in total alignment walking into this as a united front. Yep. And I guess that's my biggest fear. I feel like this is going to go bad in some sort of way. And I just don't know which way it's going to go bad. And we've had a great marriage so far. And I don't want it to be affected by somebody else's poor decisions. Listen, I'll be honest with you. I, I, and I, I think I'm willing to stand on business that I don't think I would bring her in. I think a caveat to me bringing her in and doing George's deal would be, you must go through rehab first.

1:14:29that would be okay once if you mom-in-law if you do that you can come stay with us and then when you come stay with us here are the rules but i don't think i don't think i could like you said invite that level of chaos like you said because it will affect your marriage it will affect what your kids see like that is i feel like you got to hit this rehab first and then we can talk about it

1:14:49George Kamel:and your spidey sense is tingling that's all very valid and if your wife disagrees with this i think she's kind of a little starry-eyed by the situation, just wanting to help her mom because she's a sweet daughter. But you guys need to be united on this. There's going to be a lot of discussions, a lot of homework, figuring out, okay, what does this contract say? What must be true for her to live with us? And if she doesn't comply, that's her opting out. You gave her the choice, but we're not just going to give her carte blanche to do what she wants in our house and bring invite crazy in when we've got young kids.

1:15:21George Kamel:No, thank you. This is the Ramsey Show.

1:15:27I love you.

1:15:57George Kamel:Hey, are you staying on track with the baby steps? I hope so. If you're not sure, take a quick quiz to check your progress and receive a personalized plan just for you. Simply head to the show notes of this episode, click on the link titled, Are You On Track With The Baby Steps? and complete the quiz. Titus is up next in Pennsylvania, Pottsville to be exact. Okay. It's exciting. Titus, what's going on? Hey, thanks for taking my call. Absolutely. How can we help? Quick question. So basically looking for some financial advice here. Would you take or would you pass? I'm 28 years old, married, two little boys.

1:16:36We're farmers here. And my dad is getting older. He's ready to transition the farm. He is offering to its bank appraise$2.7 million. It cash flows between$360 ,000 and$400 ,000 a year. He's offering it to us at$1.9 million. My situation is I own a 50-acre farm, and it's appraised at$805 ,000. I owe just under$600 ,000 on it, so basically$200 ,000 in equity.

1:17:08George Kamel:Would you sell your 50-acre farm and buy his? Is that the plan? That's correct, yeah. Okay, and you said it's appraised at$800 ,000? That's correct, yeah. Okay. So you'd walk away from your farm with about$150K maybe? Probably$200K. $200K to put down on a$1.9 million deal? That's correct. Whew. But you're saying it's going to increase your income by$400 ,000 a year. Or would that replace your income? That replaces my income. The other caveat is it's not completely a full-time job. It's like a 40-hour-a-week job. I could probably pick up another$20 or$25. That's full-time to city slickers like me.

1:17:53George Kamel:But I guess to the farmer, you're like, no, that's part-time. I normally do$60 to$80. Yeah, right. Yeah, that's where we go. That's interesting. I mean, it sounds like it's a good deal. Is he in good health? Is he just retiring? He's retiring, yep. He's off to some other enterprises. Okay. Okay. I'm just trying to figure out there's some real estate stuff here that I would want to at least ask a tax pro, maybe even a real estate attorney to figure out, which is step up in basis. And if you inherited this instead of purchasing it, but it sounds like he needs the money. That's actually, we've been working through that.

1:18:32Yeah, there is some interesting things there that can be done with inheritance.

1:18:35George Kamel:Yeah, what did he buy it for? So he bought it as a bare field for like$200 ,000 and for every building that's on it. So it's a poultry-raising operation. We raise about 700 ,000 chickens a year, and all the money is basically in the facilities there. Wow. Have you run the numbers on taking out a$1.7 million mortgage for this? I have. I'm looking at like 130 clear after running the operation and paying the mortgage. interesting and what are you making what are you taking home on your current farm uh so i'm working full-time um away from the farm and i just do the farm on weekends and evenings i'm making just around 100k so all this for 30k bump but you but you would be working less you said yes um and i would lose my 100k salary now and just go to the four third to the uh three it's 360 to 400k i would make that yeah that would be your gross salary for the year that's correct yeah what does your wife think about this she's good with it um we love the farming lifestyle uh we like uh you know living in the country and raising our people age that way um yeah 100 % on board.

1:19:57George Kamel:Wow. I mean, on paper, if you've run the numbers going, hey, our income is going to increase this much. We can very comfortably afford the payment on this farm. It's going to consistently yield this. You know, there's definitely more risk with this situation. I mean, you still owe that lender regardless of the harvest. You know, you know the farm life way better than I do. I'm beyond my skis on this one. But I would get the advice of multiple experts in this field. No pun intended. Is it more about half the work? Is that the biggest allure? No. The allure is basically we could own our own operation.

1:20:33I can be at home once this thing is, you know, paid for. I can be at home full time with the family. But wouldn't you be able to do those things quicker if you stayed in the farm you had because you'd owe less? Well, I'd have to get a job, basically. So I'm working on this farm full-time and that's where my salary is coming from and so if i don't want it dad's gonna sell it um and at that point probably you know i don't keep my job there and i'm i'm taking a lunchbox

1:21:02George Kamel:somewhere do you also lose benefits that would affect your family if you're just farming um not necessarily i mean yeah no not necessarily i'm not against okay because here's my thing on paper you're tripling your payments and tripling your income so i just don't want it to be a kind kind of like a net wash in the end where you're going, hey, we're making great money, but man, it's going way back out. And there's a lot of upkeep here. That's kind of what it sounds like. That's why I can't understand why I don't really see the benefit other than the less hours of work. How I run the numbers, if I pick up a part-time job, I can have it paid for in maybe 15 or 16 years.

1:21:40And at that point, I have no debt and it should be all just straight income.

1:21:47George Kamel:that's a long-term plan for something that is very physically taxing you're like well 16 years from now of me working 80 hours a week hopefully we can be debt free can we can we go back to your current farm for a little bit that that you work on the weekend you just said you do it on the weekends is that what it is that's correct yeah what would happen if you poured 40 hours a week to that farm? It's difficult. So it's difficult making a full-time living on a small farm. It can be done. It can be done, but you're working 80 to 90 hours a week for probably, you know, an 100 to 125K return. Okay.

1:22:26So your acres are limiting your output, obviously. Next question.

1:22:29George Kamel:What does dad do if you don't go through with this deal? what's his plan probably put it on auction and take the 2.7 i just don't want you to do it to help out dad obviously he's giving you a deal on this would he sell it for 2.7 million if it went to auction yes it would go for that wow man these numbers just kind of you're taken aback by it and so it would definitely give me pause i would want to like just cross the t's dot the i's get seven people's eyes on this thing, have everything drawn up, contracts, lawyers, make sure it looks good on paper, run the number seven times in the budget before I would make this leap.

1:23:09George Kamel:Because it's going to add stress. I feel like I've done that. I just wanted to get your opinion. What about, sorry, one more thought. So the living situation, when you go to your dad's farm, is there a residence that you'll get to live in? How does that play into all this? Is it very much inhabitable right now? Your family would love it, or is it going to cost$100 ,000 to renovate it? No, it's very much inhabitable. Very nice house. Okay. Ooh. Yeah, the big red flag to me is the step-up-and-basis inheritance piece. So I would talk to a real estate attorney on that one and a tax pro to understand the implications of this deal for both your father and for you.

1:23:56George Kamel:But, man, if you're, you know, you've done the math, Your sights are set on this thing, and you've crunched the numbers. Your wife's on board. Your family's on board. It's undoable in a sense. Like if you hate this place and it's a nuisance, could you sell it for$2.7 million a few years from now? I could, yep. But you wouldn't because it's too sentimental at that point, isn't it? It's dad's farm. He wouldn't have wanted this, right? I would forfeit some collateral with most of my parents' relationship there. Yeah, I think, yeah, that would be – And then I would cash out the$800K. And then, yeah, you make all the profit and dad didn't.

1:24:29George Kamel:He's going, wait, I gave that to you. So that's the other part of this you need to think through is the what ifs and the feelings and the relationships and what could be damaged if things don't work out perfectly on paper. That's a good point. That's all we've seen so far is on paper. But life, as you know, is much more than that. So, man, I mean, it's a sweet deal. You're basically getting, quote, free$800 ,000 in discount from dad, which is nice. But it's also still a$1.7 million mortgage, hoping that we can still create this level of income consistently. But it sounds like you're willing to do the work, get seven jobs if you have to, to keep this dream alive.

1:25:09George Kamel:So you have a green light for me, but it's sort of like it's caution. It'd be a flashing yellow. Proceed with caution. Flashing yellow for me on this one. But, man, you know more about this than I do. So, again, I'm beyond my skis. but man it makes me want to get on a farm jade you think i could survive out there for at least an hour oh no if it was 70 degrees in the shade and i could only lift like things under 50 pounds i could i could be out there you could be out there okay i'll take your word for it i'd wear some skinny jean overalls make everyone upset hey what's up dr john deloney here the new dates have dropped for the Money in Marriage getaway over Valentine's Day weekend in 2026.

1:25:53George Kamel:This is your chance to hit pause on everything in your life and reconnect with your spouse over a long weekend in Nashville, Tennessee. Me and my friend Rachel Cruz will be digging into topics like sex, money, communication, and more. This weekend is happening on February 12th through the 14th and early bird prices start at$749 per couple, but the prices will be going up soon. Get your tickets today at RamseySolutions.com slash events.

1:26:33George Kamel:From the Ramsey Network, this is The Ramsey Show. I'm George Camel, joined by Jade Warshaw. This is the show where we help people build wealth, do work they love, and create amazing relationships. Christian is in Denver coming up here. What's going on, Christian? Hi, Bill. Thank you for taking my call also. Sure. Yeah, I'm in a bit of a pickle situation. I have an older sister who started a business under my name, an LLC. Under your name? Yes. Is it your business? It's not mine, no. Did you know that she was doing this? yes i consented um because i know she asked me as a favor kind of thing is this like a co-signer for debt i don't understand why how this was a favor why did she put her own name on a construction company and it was it was kind of so that she didn't have she's a bit of a con a con artist and um she did it so that she didn't have too many businesses under her name.

1:27:41What? And you agreed? Yes. Like an idiot. I was going to say, what does that say about you to work hand-in-hand with a known con artist? I know. I didn't think it would have caused this many issues. So what issues are you facing? Tell us the issues you're facing. yeah so she um during and then years later covid happened and she decided to take a loan out um under this llc and and so i do what she just hasn't been paying it at all and it's just to use for a personal whatever just blowing money what was that what did she use the debt for she personal personal uses she did not use it for the business so she has been fraudulently

1:28:35George Kamel:starting llcs taking out debt against that to then spend personally yes and then you were like sure i'll help you out sis i'll be an accomplice to this crime yeah so how much money unfortunately how much money how deep how deep is she in this yeah the loans it was two loans um they were a total of$120 ,000. Oh my gosh. And now with interest, they're about$135 ,000. You do understand that you're the one liable here. You're the one who's going to get sued. You're the one who's going to have your credit totally trashed. Right. I feel like there's a legality there too because it's completely fake.

1:29:16George Kamel:The debt is in your name, correct? Yes. Oh my goodness. And there's no operating business. It's just totally fake? no there was yes there was an operating business and um she ended up losing that business in 2022 moving it to where oh she just lost it oh lost it losing it okay i misunderstood you yeah okay so you mentioned earlier that she has done a lot of this how many times how many fake businesses or failed businesses has she run through? Well, under this LLC with my name, she started off as a, like a retail shop selling candles and things. And then she ended up doing a, a, a barbershop salon.

1:30:09And then she, you said she also had a construction business. And then she, yes, she also had a construction business, which I'm not even sure if she had

1:30:18George Kamel:that under her name but she um do any of these businesses still exist they're actually operating day-to-day pretty nope now can i ask you a question what in the world would make you say yes to this where where was your mind at we've spent enough time talking about her tell us about you and what would cause you to agree to something so like clearly bad yeah she was just like when when she first convinced me to do the business under my name, she pretty much was just saying, like, this is going to help your credit out. If you need to take a loan out in the future, this would help you out. And you believed her?

1:31:01Yes.

1:31:03George Kamel:Well, here's the bottom line. If we're starting today, you're not going to refinance this in her name. She's not going to do that, and she probably can't do that. That's the solution here. She takes over the payments, refinances the LLC and all the debt in her name. But she won't do that. Have you talked to her about that? I have not, no. That would be, I would fight to the death to make sure that happens. Because if not, here's the bad news. You're on the hook for$130 ,000 and you have to pay that off. And you may as well fight to the death on the thing that George just told you because your relationship's ruined anyway.

1:31:45If she says, do you see what I'm saying? The fact that she conned her own sister.

1:31:51George Kamel:Is disgusting, first of all. It's despicable. So this relationship didn't exist. It was transactional and she used you. And that should make you angry. Right. What are you doing for work? I'm a server, but I just stopped working because I'm expecting a baby. Wow. I'm expecting a baby pretty soon here. Is the father in your life? Where's dad?

1:32:21He has some mental health issues, so he's unfortunately not going to support me much, I don't think.

1:32:29George Kamel:So you're going to be a single mom? Yes. So we must. This is like, we must talk to your sister. And you've got to put this in terms that she can understand and say, listen, you tricked me and I am now in really hot water I cannot pay this loan that is actually your loan I have another life coming into this world that I have to feed and take care of you need to come down with me to the bank and we've got to refinance this so that you can take the payment otherwise you are effective that means you're effectively trying to ruin my life if you don't do this and that's what I'd say to her you're going to have to find the last ounce of empathy that exists in her body if it's in there to convince her to do this because you've got your own crisis going on.

1:33:18George Kamel:The last thing you need is this. Do you have any other debt? Yes, student loan debt. How much? Right now, I'm not sure, but maybe like$65 ,000. What's that degree in or what did you start school for? That was a communication degree and a double degree in business, Spanish business. Okay. Translating kind of. Oh, okay. Yeah. So what type of job were you hoping to do with that? And can we still start headed towards that direction?

1:33:56I mean, like interpreting. Yeah. Translating. Have you looked for jobs in that field? I have not, no. How come?

1:34:09I don't know. I just got used to the serving and making tips and just like I just stayed doing this. So what are you doing for income now?

1:34:17George Kamel:You just said you'd stopped. Yeah, right now I'm not doing anything. I just stopped about a week ago. How are you paying the bills? Well, I just moved in with my mom. Okay. And I was able to save. I have some money saved. And the worry is that the government will just, like, grab it. Well, if you don't pay your student loans, they will. And the creditors are going to come after it. And so, Christian, I am heartbroken over your situation. I'm going to gift you a session with a financial coach on us who can walk with you, you know, for much longer than we can on this call to try to unravel the pieces and find some hope in this very desperate situation.

1:35:00George Kamel:I'm so sorry you're going through this. Hang on the line. Chris is going to pick up. We're going to hook you up with a financial coaching session. And start looking for translator jobs today.

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1:36:18George Kamel:Buying or selling your home is a big deal. And there's a lot of clickbait headlines out there, doom and gloom, fear mongering, conflicting data. It's hard to know what's really happening in the housing market. And so we're here to make the latest trends easy to understand. Median home prices stayed steady last month at about 441 ,000. The number of homes for sale hit a million for the second month in a row. And buyers have more options than negotiating power and sellers are facing more competition. Average 15-year fixed rate held steady at about 6 % last month. So if you're debt-free, you've got a fully funded emergency fund, a solid down payment, now is a great time to buy and even sell your home.

1:36:56George Kamel:So to learn more about housing market trends and get free tools to help you buy or sell with confidence, go to RamseySolutions.com slash market or click the link in the show notes and description if you're on podcast or YouTube. Teresa is up next in Chattanooga, Tennessee. What's going on, Teresa? Hello. Just down the road from you, we're hoping you can settle a marital argument. Oh, we love doing this. All right, who's right and who's wrong? I'm right, of course. Perfect. My husband and I are both 57. We are both currently transitioning our careers, which is a little weird timing, but it's happening.

1:37:35It's about time you had a midlife crisis, Teresa. Yes, I know. I've been in my job for 20 years, so it's a good time to transition. we have two and a half million dollars saved and we're debt-free good cars we're all set up for that stuff we have um two hundred and ninety thousand dollar mortgage and my husband um thinks says dave says dave says all day long dave says pay off the mortgage my financial advisor says, you're making about 10 % on your investments. Your mortgage interest is 4.25%. Let's not pay it off and be making the money on the mortgage money that's in the bank.

1:38:20George Kamel:Can we play a fun game, Teresa? Let's do it. Who is incentivized for you to stay investing instead of pull out$290 ,000 to pay off the mortgage? Who benefits from that the most? And I totally understand that. Who is it? Exactly. Your financial advisor is incentivized to keep you invested. I had a feeling you were going to say that. So just I think it's important to have the full context. And also, yes, we always say, hey, the market will generally do 10%, 11 % over the long haul. But we also know the market could be negative 22 % next year. And so there's a forced savings plan with a known variable when you pay down the mortgage.

1:39:03and we also know and you know it's more than just about math you'll have emotional peace as you head

1:39:09George Kamel:into what could be retirement in the next five years that's what he that's his thing is to not have that hanging on us especially in this transition time and we didn't factor in this you can now invest your mortgage payment when it's paid off can't you yes have you calculated those numbers have you factored that into the equation well no because at the moment we're transitioning so i don't have a real idea what our income is going to be in the next couple years well let's say there is none what if you have a real hard time transitioning there's a layoff man having no mortgage would really free you guys up to be flexible wouldn't it yes and having that extra three hundred thousand dollars in the bank would give me a little more security so see this is what we do you have two and a half million to let's not act like this is your entire nest egg we're asking you to deplete how much of this is in non-retirement oh he's really smiling now can you not do this i don't think oh your husband's next to you no he's on the other end of the sofa and he can hear you oh good okay he's loving this whole conversation i mean you also have to remember this if you paid off the mortgage and you hate it you could always borrow against it again and put it right back you could it'll be a slightly higher rate but you could do it the banks will always lend you more but i bet you won't like I'm willing to make that deal because I know you won't okay okay well I was just to me the math math you know and uh you know I was showing him like what 10 % looks like compared to 4 % and but we're not here's the thing the truth is we're not making a guaranteed 10 % every year and there's more to the equation than math which is what George also highlighted and go look at You're actually paying an interest this month?

1:40:55George Kamel:Because the mortgage is front loaded with the interest. Right. So this month I paid$1 ,000 in interest and$500 in principal. Exactly. And so you have to look at the actual numbers of what's happening with the interest. It's not the same as compound growth in the investments. That's a good point. As it is paying the interest. So there's the mathematical argument. There's the emotional argument. There's the logical argument. But the truth is you're going to have less risk in your life and more peace if you pay off the mortgage. Could you have potentially made a little bit more if you left it? Maybe.

1:41:26George Kamel:We don't know. The world could implode next year. We just don't know what's going to happen. And so not owing people money is always going to put you in a better position. I was going to say that. Usually when people come, when they have times of distress, the number one thing they think about is their home. They want to keep their home and their family safe. That's it. Right? I mean, you've been on this earth 57 years. So, you know, when the moment comes, if somebody loses their job or you're unsure about a paycheck or a health scare, those are the things you think of. You want to keep your family safe.

1:41:58You want to make sure your home is safe, right? Right. So here you have it.

1:42:03George Kamel:And think about this, too. Ultimate security. When you pay off that mortgage, it lowers your monthly expenses forever, doesn't it? Yes, by$1 ,800. Which means you need less in retirement than you did previously to cover your expenses. Yeah, because you don't have to make that payment. Y 'all are killing me. I hate to use logic. I'm trying to hit you at every angle, Teresa. Here's the thing. I think your financial advisor is a better salesperson than your husband. That's what it comes down to. They're more persuasive. I was looking at the math, and the math made sense to me. And we've been with her for a long time, and her numbers have been pretty good.

1:42:38The numbers have been solid recently. I'm not saying she's a bad person. I'm just saying that people tend to follow the incentive, whether they're sometimes realizing it or not. that's all i'm saying agreed i agree the bad news is i lost the argument the good news is i don't have to listen to days says days says days i love this so much hey call us back when you're

1:42:59George Kamel:completely debt free let us know if you like it or not now you got to listen to george says george says george says yeah i'm just telling you what i what i have done and what i would do and so i don't tell people to do things that i wouldn't do and i paid off my mortgage at a very young age because even though I could have made, man, you could have made XYZ in the market over those next 30 years if you hung on to a low, I didn't care because life happened and my wife wanted to stay home. And guess what? She could do it because we didn't have a mortgage payment. And so you got to think about the reality of life on top of, yes, some of the logic, some of the math, some of the variables there.

1:43:35George Kamel:But it's a fun discussion. We're having fun with you. I'm so proud of you guys. You're multimillionaires. It's a moot point either way. You're doing great. Laura is up next in Portland. What's happening, Laura? Get right to the question. We're up against the clock. Okay. Should I sell my house or not? We bought it last February, 2024. We owe$421 ,000 on it. I could make about$50 ,000 according to the realtor if I sold it for$494,$495 ,000. Our payment is actually 37 % of our take-home. My husband makes$145 ,000 a year gross. and we after insurance and 401 all that our take home is eight thousand eight hundred and twenty two dollars a month we have a total of seventeen thousand eight hundred and seventy seven dollars in debt after all of our expenses we have for the month about four thousand left over I feel that our mortgage payment is just too out of, it's just too much.

1:44:37It's way over the 25%. But you factored in investing, didn't you?

1:44:43George Kamel:So if you just looked at after-tax income but then took out these other deductions. You might be okay. You'd probably look closer to 30%, right? Yeah. So I just said exactly what goes into our account after like. Yeah. So that's after insurance. Okay. So likely insurance is coming out of his check that you did. Healthcare, investing, all of that. It feels tight looking at the parameter. So I want to free you from that. Nothing is on fire here. You guys have an incredible income. I would be aggressive at cleaning up this debt and then getting an emergency fund back in place. But you're not in a place where I would say, you got to go sell the house today, Laura.

1:45:23George Kamel:You're in a real pickle. I think you're doing better than you think. I have like, I put a thousand dollars on something and after everything, I have like $50 till next payday. That sounds like a budgeting issue. Are you guys budgeting together? I just got the EveryDollar app and I'm just kind of confused. We'll coach you on that. Jump on there. You get the premium one. If not, we'll gift it to you. You can jump on a 10 minute one-on-one coaching call with an EveryDollar Pro on our team. They'll help you overcome the obstacles you're facing with budgeting.

1:46:08It's way too easy to put off making a will. And believe me, I've heard every excuse in the book. But not having the time is one excuse we can kick to the curb right now. Because these days, most folks can make a legally binding will on their laptop between loads of laundry. If you're wondering if you can make your will online or if you need a lawyer, we have a quiz to help you figure that out in less than five minutes. Just go to RamseySolutions.com slash willsquiz. RamseySolutions.com slash willsquiz.

1:47:00George Kamel:Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. Let's go outside the studio for a second because we've got some special guests in the lobby on the debt-free stage. Kyle and Emily are here to share their story. What's up, guys? Hey, how are you? Where are you guys from? Gettysburg, Pennsylvania. Love it. And you traversed the terrain to be here in Nashville, Tennessee for the debt-free scream. How much did you guys pay off? We paid off$150 ,000. Nice. How long did that take? 26 months. Wow, that's aggressive. Okay, what was the range of income during this time? So we started at$130 ,000 and ended at$90 ,000. Okay, somebody stayed home?

1:47:38George Kamel:I knew it. Baby time? Yep, baby time. Oh my gosh, this baby is so cute. If you're watching on YouTube, you need to because that's one cute baby. That is a cute baby. Wow. That's the best reason to have a dip in income right there. And debt-free in the process. What kind of debt was this? It was our house. I knew it! You guys are amazing. Wow. Wow. If you're not watching on YouTube, this couple looks like they might be 22 at most. I'm 24. You're 24? Holy smokes. Oh, my gosh. With a paid-for house. Okay, what caused you guys to be so weird at such a young age? Who hurt you? Who caused this trauma to get you guys debt-free in your early 20s?

1:48:23George Kamel:I don't think anybody caused this trauma. We were looking for peace. So we solved for that by getting rid of all of our bills, simplifying our life, and ultimately following Christ. So we put him first in our life. That's amazing. So how did you get connected to the Ramsey stuff? Well, Kyle actually found it first, but he showed me John's show, the Dr. John Delaney show. And that's kind of how I got segued into Ramsey. But Kyle was the one who really found the Ramsey show. Yeah. So I run a lawn and landscape company. So when I was outside working, I needed something kind of positive to listen to.

1:49:03George Kamel:So I stumbled upon Dave and I started following the principles and it paid off. That is incredible. Okay. So you're like, you weren't like a financial peace baby. Your parents didn't instill this in you. You have some common sense principles. It sounds like you were not in crippling consumer debt at any point in your life. No. Did you go to college? Yeah. So I started, I went to school for a year and racked up 22 grand in debt and then decided that wasn't for me. So I left, started the company, finished at community college, my associates in business management, and then used the business to pay off the 22 ,000 in debt.

1:49:43George Kamel:That's incredible. Wow. Yeah. So now you're doing that. You're the income provider for the family with this lawn care business. Emily's at home with the baby. Right. This is a good life with a paid-for house. Okay, what's the house worth? It's worth$250 ,000. Amazing. Wow. And how much do you guys have in the nest egg? You guys been saving? Not too, too much. We're probably right around... $30 ,000? That's great. Yeah, you've been busy with this house. So you're on the path to become Baby Steps Millionaires. Right. My guess is by$30 ,000, you guys are going to be there at this rate. because now you got your income freed up.

1:50:17George Kamel:It's your greatest wealth building tool. So the world is your oyster. I'm so proud of you guys. So exciting. Thank you. What was the hardest part over that 26 months?

1:50:29Honestly, God has just blessed us so much. I feel like when bumps would come into the road, he would just provide. Whether that was someone just giving us like a random financial gift. I don't know. God just provided so much throughout the journey. that's awesome yeah so the most important question then is how are you going to celebrate um well i actually took my mom to florida for a weekend so that was funny just your mom not him well with a baby at home we didn't want to leave him overnight first time parents yeah um but he's getting ready to take his dad to florida too okay yeah so who were your biggest

1:51:07George Kamel:cheerleaders? Maybe your dad was a big cheerleader. Yeah. And honestly, you guys, like listening to you guys. We're happy to be cheerleading you guys. That's amazing. So how does it feel to be completely debt free, especially at 24, 25 years? Like, this is crazy. It feels great. It feels great. We have more freedom to give. We have more freedom to spend on little things. Just when we're out we can just grab something extra if we want to yeah um was this a secret do your friends know about this i mean now they do now yeah they do now but honestly we weren't telling a ton of people not for any reason just surprise now they're gonna be asking you can you tell me more about this ramsey stuff like it's gonna be in their algorithm now feeding them videos this is not normal behavior guys this is really amazing i love this so what would you tell that young newlywed couple out there who's gone, well, we got to just get a big house.

1:52:03George Kamel:We got to get a car. Just take on the payment. We can't save. We got the student loans. How would you encourage them? I would say if you're able to take on, you know, even if it's like a$400 ,000 mortgage or more, just stay within your means. Buy what you can afford. You don't need to get the biggest, best thing that you can spend money on. Try not to finance anything. And if you get a mortgage, pay it off as quick as you can. Wow. What was your interest rate? 5.75%. Wow. Yeah. Knocked that thing out. Sure did. Did you get it 26 months ago? Was it that you just got the mortgage and immediately decided we're paying it off?

1:52:42George Kamel:March of 23, we got it and paid it off in May. Holy cow. Wow. Yeah. So the bigger question is, how do you get a spouse on board like that from day one? Were you guys aligned on finances before marriage? Yep. Yeah. Yeah. I think it was like the second date we were talking about finances and kids and everything. So just right from the get go, we realized that we were aligned. And honestly, I think that would be the biggest piece of advice is to get on the same page with your spouse. I couldn't imagine doing it. It's amazing what happens when you're going in the same direction instead of pulling each other in two different directions.

1:53:19George Kamel:I don't want to. And I had to drag her on board. 26 months. You guys are dead free. for the rest of your life. Oh my goodness. I'm so proud of you guys. You're an inspiration to us and to many out there in the lobby and many watching and listening at home. So thank you for making the trip to be here to celebrate with us. Thank you. You ready to do this thing? I think so. I think so. Okay, we've got Kyle and Emily from Gettysburg, Pennsylvania. $150 ,000 paid off. That's the mortgage in 26 short months, making$130 ,000 down to$90 ,000 so that Emily could stay home with that sweet baby. Count it down.

1:53:54George Kamel:Let's hear a debt-free scream. Three, two, one. All glory to God, we're debt-free. So sweet. There it is. They're even aligned in their pitch, the tone, the words. I mean, this is a couple. It was everything. Lockstep, baby. Two peas in a pod. Yeah. I love to see this. It's amazing what happens, Jade, when you have that alignment early on in a marriage. And it's why we fight for this. When people call in and we say, combine your finances, combine your life, combine your goals and see what happens. Shared goals, shared effort, shared intensity, all of it. They just, I mean. Some people don't see this progress in 26 years, let alone 26 months.

1:54:34Exactly. Yes.

1:54:35George Kamel:They're still hanging on to the mortgage, hanging on to the loans, not aligned with what we're going to do with our money. Yeah. And look at the options and flexibility they have too. When they have that margin, she decides, hey, I want to stay home. Yeah, absolutely. We can afford that. the math checks out this is our goal that we're both aligned on go for it yeah they're unstoppable totally unstoppable i tell you very inspiring it is inspiring oh man social question yeah let's hit what do you got for me today i'm a little nervous depending on these depending on which platform i kind of get nervous there's one on here that's specifically for me okay let's hear it i'm deciding if i want to answer it okay jade what change made the biggest impact on crushing your student loans.

1:55:17Okay.

1:55:18George Kamel:So how much student loans did you guys have? It was 280 ,000 of student loans. And the biggest impact on crushing my student loan debt was the realization that no one else is going to pay it. Like the realization of going, okay, there's no more deferment. There's no more putting it aside. There's no more forbearance. There's no, you know. No more$10 words. No, yeah. Nothing's going to save me. The government's not coming for you. Yeah. On the white horse. Yeah. And so the biggest impact was realizing I get to decide who I want to be in this scenario. I can be a person who is about it, about it, or I can be a person who is waiting to be rescued by a hero that doesn't exist.

1:55:57The hero is me.

1:55:58George Kamel:Oh, that's so beautiful. And that's, I think, the heart behind this. Yes, I'm super happy they paid off their house. But really behind that is they have agency over their life. Yeah. They don't owe people money. They feel invincible because they know, hey, if we can pay off 150 grand in 26 months, what can't we do financially? Oh, so good. They're unstoppable, I tell you. At 23, I mean, this is just, what are they going to do the rest of their life? Just sitting around and watch The Price is Right? I mean, that's all. That's all that's in the cards. I know, it's better. So much better than that, especially with that sweet baby.

1:56:28George Kamel:Congrats, guys. This is The Ramsey Show.

1:56:44you

1:57:00George Kamel:Our scripture of the day, Proverbs 3, 3. Let love and faithfulness never leave you. Bind them around your neck. Write them on the tablet of your heart. Then you will win favor and a good name in the sight of God and man. and in a wild transition, Taylor Swift said, no matter what happens in life, be good to people. Being good to people is a wonderful legacy to leave behind. Ooh, I like that. I mean, I'll amen that, Taylor. That's like the, what is it? It's nice to be important, but it's much more important to be nice. Oh, I've never heard that. Have you heard that? I like that one. That's a good one.

1:57:36George Kamel:All right. I'll credit Jade Warshaw with that quote. All right. It's not mine. Anthony's up next in Ohio. What's going on, Anthony? How can we help? Hi. Thanks, George and Jade, for taking my call. I was calling because my wife and I, our oldest son is getting ready to start school, and we are back and forth on if we would like to homeschool or send him to public school. And we get to decide? Just looking for advice. We're kind of split down the middle, both of us, just looking for some outside perspective as well. Okay. Okay. So it's not private school, so there's not like a price tag attached to it.

1:58:14It's just do we want them going to public school or do we want them to have the education at home?

1:58:18George Kamel:Does homeschool mean one of us has to stay home and forego income that is currently there? Yeah, so that's kind of one of the things that we're hung up on. So my wife has been a stay-at-home mom since our oldest was born. He's five. We've been living off of my income. I just kind of stumbled upon you guys a few weeks back, and I really want to start to try to get aggressive with paying down debt. And I think, you know, with him going to public school and and we have a daughter as well, they'll be starting school next year. So, you know, them going to school, that'll free up some of her time to, you know, add some additional income and get more aggressive with our debt.

1:58:53So what would be OK? So we kind of understand why it could be good for public school. What was the homeschool argument?

1:59:02George Kamel:Was this a values thing or just convenience? Yeah, kind of that. Yeah. I mean, so, so she's, she's more on the homeschool side and I'm, you know, it's kind of like a percentage where I'm like 60, 40 public and she's like 60, 40 home. We've been praying about it, just trying to figure out, you know, which way we should go. But she's more along the lines of like, she doesn't think our five-year-old son should be on the same schedule as me going to school for seven hours or eight hours a day. Okay. Got you. I understand that. Yeah. She wants to kind of, kind of like let them ease into it, wake up on their own time.

1:59:35not spend eight hours, more like three hours a day doing school work. Understood. So go back to the financial side. Tell us more about your financial picture right now. Do you guys have debt? What do you have saved? And what are you trying to accomplish? Yeah, so we do have debt. Not a crazy amount. So we have outside the mortgage, we have about$45 ,000 in car loans between two vehicles. And then we have about$5 ,000 in credit card debt. and our mortgage is about 160. Okay, so the cars, it's kind of one of these things where there's a way to solve for the financial side of it. I mean, if you guys really wanted to do the homeschool thing while still accomplishing the financial side, then it comes down to these two cars.

2:00:21George Kamel:What are you making? I earn 120 gross a year. Okay. Yeah, I mean, a lot of it's tied up there. Is there one of those that you could downsize? uh yeah potentially so i've been kind of tossed around the idea of selling my truck uh that's the larger of the two what is it um it is it's a it's a 2020 chevy silverado uh we owe about 30 on it 30 yeah i mean there there's a big chunk right there are you underwater on it could you sell for what it's worth or more uh probably about what it's worth i don't think i'm too much underwater on. I just bought it last September. Do you have any money saved anywhere?

2:01:04Not really.

2:01:05George Kamel:We got about$2 ,000 and I'm thinking about what I should do with that thousand since I just started listening to you guys to get it down to a thousand. So if you sell the truck, you still need another vehicle, right? Correct. Yeah. So yeah, I mean, I drive an hour one way to work. So we definitely, I would definitely need a vehicle. And then, you know, for her, just doctor's appointments and various different things. And she also does, we do earn a little bit of additional income. She has a photography business that doesn't earn a crazy amount, mainly around the holidays. It's probably about 10 ,000 a year.

2:01:41George Kamel:What would she do full time if she did go back to work? So that's another great question. I think it would need to be something that's somewhat flexible because I think we would still want her to be off during the summers to be at home with the kids because that's how it's been for the last, like I said, five years. So probably something in a restaurant. I mean, she did that when we first got together for a while, you know, just where she could really focus in on her photography and try to expand that a little bit. We don't really need to invest any money into that to grow it. So that's something that we could probably go down as well.

2:02:15Here's the thing. I think that you, I mean, this is just my thought when I look at your numbers. I think that you guys should be totally fine on$120 ,000 a year. That's your salary. The problem is you guys need to live on less than you make. That's what it is. So although her going back and picking up a job for a while could help you pay off this debt a little faster, I think really what you guys need to do is really lock down the budget to get this thing done. Because you guys having$120 ,000 shovel to work on this debt is pretty decent if you sell the truck. And I think that will allow you to still clear it in the time period that we...

2:02:54George Kamel:You could be debt-free by the end of the year. Yeah. But you got to sell the truck. And then get a fully funded emergency fund. That's going to put you guys in a really solid place for her to stay home, homeschool, if that's what she wants to do. And hey, if she doesn't like it, you can always turn back to public school. If they go to public school and they hate it and they're not thriving there, she can always pull them out and homeschool. So nothing is fatal here, but I would, I think the bigger thing is what is our plan to aggressively get ourselves in a better financial position so that we can make this decision from a place of strength instead of stress?

2:03:27Yep, absolutely. Yep. I keep telling her that I, you know, after listening to you guys for the last few weeks, I really just want to get all the stress out of our life and just make peaceful decisions and be able to make this decision no matter, you know, if we were debt-free, this decision would probably be a little bit different. I don't know. You might not even be talking about it. It might have just naturally happened that you homeschool them.

2:03:48George Kamel:Right. Yep. Okay. I love it, man. Yeah. Best of luck on the journey and cut up those cards. You don't need those things where you make 120 grand. We don't need the points. We don't need the possibility of debt. We need some peace in our life right now so we can create some stability for our family. Appreciate the call. Kelly is up next in St. Louis. What's going on, Kelly? Hi. Oh my goodness. I'm so excited. Okay. So we are in baby step two and I'm looking forward to baby step three. We only have about$5 ,000 left in baby step two. So I'm looking forward. Can we do like, okay, so it's three to six months.

2:04:25And can we do like three or four ish, park it in a high yield savings and let it do the rest? Or do I need to like, do I need to shoot for six months? That's a good question. I actually really liked this question. So there's a couple of things to consider with baby step three. First off, just always remember that it's your kind of your basic budget. A lot of people think it's like three to six months of income, like they're full, whatever they make in a month. And it's not that. It's if you were to whittle your budget down to kind of emergency mode, you know, obviously your four walls, daycare, insurance, like it's not your budget with all the bells and whistles built in.

2:05:03So that's the first thing to think of. And then second, determining between three to six months. Yeah, you want to look at a couple of things. are you a dual income household? Because if you are, then yeah, there's a little bit less risk there. If one person loses their income, there's still another income coming in. So you could look at something like that as you're determining, is it three months? Is it six months? Other thing you could determine is your health. Like, are you guys in good health? Does anybody have chronic issues that are keeping them in and out of the hospital or could take away their income?

2:05:31That sort of thing. So those are the factors to determining if you're gonna set it at three. And like you said, let the interest maybe do the rest over time.

2:05:40George Kamel:It would take years for the interest to do the work. Because, I mean, look at this, 15 grand in a high yield savings, you're going to make 500 bucks a year. Yeah. But I'm just saying at that point, I'm just saying at that point, you would be okay if it were just three months, right? Two incomes, solid jobs, everybody's healthy, right? I'll be honest with you, George, and you throw a flag. I just tend to err on the side of six months kind of regardless. I don't know the way the world is. I just like six months. I mean, that being said, I wouldn't let it stop you from moving on to baby step four or 3B.

2:06:12George Kamel:Is the next step for you trying to save a down payment or invest? No. The next step is pay off our mortgage. Oh, great. Right? Yeah. And we only have$70 ,000 left on it. You've got to be investing 15 % first. Any money beyond that goes to college and paying down the mortgage. So, yeah, if you wanted to get to three or four and then begin the other steps and maybe slowly add to that emergency fund, that would be okay. But again, to Jade's point, man, there's nothing like having a six-month emergency fund ready to battle whatever comes at you. It feels good. Yeah.