“We’re in Way Over Our Heads With $1.5 Million in Debt”

31:38Statistics show that half of Americans don't have enough life insurance, or they don't have any at all. I don't understand this, John. Why don't people want to take care of their family? They think they're going to die or something? Well, I used to be one of those guys. I didn't even think about it. And one of my buddies said, hey, the only reason to not have life insurance is if you hate your wife and kids. and I immediately went and got term life insurance. That's a gut punch. And you're telling me, and for decades, Dave, I've sat across people who've lost a spouse. They've lost somebody important to them.

32:08Me too. And they don't know what to do next. Me too. I mean, you're going to have a crisis here. And you got two options while you're sitting and talking to a young widow. She's concerned about how she's going to invest all this money properly and not mess this up, or she's concerned how she's going to eat tomorrow. That's exactly right. These are the two options. And take care of your dadgum family, man. Term life insurance can replace income, pay off debts, cover funeral expenses, so your family can actually have the opportunity to just be sad, to just miss you. That's exactly what it's supposed to be.

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33:12Bo is in New York City. Hi, Bo. Welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hello, sir. Thank you. Sure. What's up? I don't even know where to start. I guess my overall question would be how to handle the overwhelming stress of the holidays while we're climbing out of debt and still trying to be what we need to be for the children. What's the overwhelming stress? Buying gifts? Yeah. How old are the children? When there's literally nothing. Well, we'll get to why is there nothing, but how many children? Four. Four. And what are their ages? 15, 11, 10, and 7. Okay. Tell me why there's nothing.

34:06Just not enough. There's not nothing, but there's not enough at the end. There's not anything extra. There's... Paycheck to paycheck. Hour to hour. Okay. What are you earning? At this point. Or jobs right now. You have four jobs? Around 120 a year. Okay. You yourself have four jobs? Well, one full-time job and then three gigs, Amazon, catering, flex. And that equals 120 a year? About, yeah. What's your main job? Managing a small grocery store. Okay. That was mine that I sold to them last year. Did they give you money for it or you just got out? they gave me a good chunk of help toward the debt how much some leftover um on paper yeah 200 000 but i owed about 240 so there's 40 000 left of business debt pretty much yeah there's any other sba loan there's personal debt there's school loan debt But there's a mess.

35:22What do you make at the grocery store? What's that? What do you make at the grocery store? That's$100 ,000. Okay. So there's a$40 ,000 SBA loan. Tell me the student loans.

35:38Well, different ones, but between my wife and I, close to$30 ,000. Tell me about the personal loans. Not loans. Credit cards that we took out in our own names. Okay. to help the business in the last year, you know. How much is that?

35:58If I had to guess, it'd be 30 to 40. I'm so sorry. That's okay. I called on a whim. I'm listening to the podcast. No, I got you. I got you. But 30 to 40, I mean, we haven't... How much do you own your cars? Taken any more, I will say that. How much do you own your cars? I know you're going to hate that, but we have one car that we owe about$13 ,000 on. It's a 2018 4Runner. And then I take your advice, and I went and I bought a Hoopie, and it blew up. So I had to buy another Hoopie, and it broke down. So now I'm on my third Hoopie, which is a 200 ,000-mile, 2009 Silverado. That you paid cash for.

36:42Yeah, and it spends more time at the mechanic than it does in the driveway. So I think I spent less on the forerunner over the past two years. Well, I chalk that up to you might not know how to select a great older car. Yeah. That's what I chalk that up to. Dave, I bought one of those Astro vans that your wife drove. So$123 ,000 of debt. How old are you? I'm 43, just turned 43. All right. So here's the thing. You live in one of the most expensive cities in the world to live in. Okay. And you can't afford to live there, can you? I think you need a change of scenery. I know. Well, there's a problem that we legally can't yet.

37:40Is this custody? What is this? That was vague. What do you mean? Yeah. My oldest son is not my own son. Mm-hmm. And he's, you know, we're tied here to the father. Mm-hmm. So, okay, then let's talk, let's still talk living situation because. Well, we haven't, we live in a beautiful, beautiful area that we don't deserve to live in. Mm-hmm. We pay less in rent than you would think you'd pay for a basement apartment. What do you pay? We have$2 ,000 a month. Okay. Does your wife work outside the home? Does your wife work outside the home? No, she homeschools her kids. We might need to change that. I know.

38:26I know. It's kind of hard to bring that up. Yeah, but let's play it out. I see how much she does. But let's stop for a minute. Hey, Bo, listen. Yeah. Something's got to change, dude. You're going to have to decide what it is. Not even any more hours in the day. No, you can't work anymore. You got no emotion left in your gas tank. I'm talking to a guy who can't even form a sentence because you're completely exhausted. Something's got to change. You're going to have to change something. You're carrying all of this. You're the plate spinningist dude I've talked to, and I don't know when. And these plates are crashing all around you, and you're scared to death.

39:02And every time we bring up, you got to try something, you got to try something, you got to try something. You go, can't do that, can't do that, can't do that. Something's got to change. You've got to change something. You're going to have to rise up and bust something and change something. I don't know what it is, man, but I love you, and I want you to win, and I'm talking to a guy who's scared. Am I doing the wrong work? I think you've got to move. I think you've got to do something different. Your wife's going to work. Somebody's going to work. Something's going to change. Your job changes. You get away from that grocery store that failed because every time you walk in there, you feel like a failure.

39:32I don't know what's going on, but your emotions, man, are all in your words, And you need to play this back and listen to it on the podcast because you're defeated. It's everything that comes up. I'm already defeated. I've already lost. I've already lost. I've already lost. And you have not lost. You're a hardworking guy. You managed to keep a family together in freaking New York City. My God. I mean, you're amazing. There's a lot of stuff you can do. Just because your stupid grocery store didn't work doesn't mean your life is over. Your life's not over. There is a lot of stuff my friend Bo can do that makes more money and better decisions.

40:16You are not stuck, but you are going to have to change something. There's an old thing. When the lumberjacks in the mountains of the Appalachians used to put the trees in the river to run them down the river to deliver them to the sawmill, they would get stuck in the bend. When they go around the corner, there'll be a log jam. That's where that saying comes from. You know how they fixed it? They'd light dynamite and throw it in the middle of it. That's how you bust up a log jam. You bust up some stuff. Now, I don't know exactly what it is in your life, but I'm going to start selling everything in sight.

40:50Anything is on the line. And I'm going to look at the kids and go, kids, we're freaking broke. We're freaking broke. We got no money. So we're going to have to figure out a very creative Christmas this year. and I'm going to get on the phone with the old ex-husband, wife, whatever the flip is going on, and going, hey, we cannot stay here anymore because of Junior. So something's going to have to change. And something's going to change because you cannot – the guy I'm talking to is not in a sustainable situation. One year from today, you cannot be saying the same exact sentences you're saying to me right now.

41:28You cannot exist that way. It won't work. Something's going to blow. You're going to blow a gasket. Something's going to blow up in your marriage. We're going to find you an addiction. Something's going to blow up because you're just the stuck, stuck, stuck, stuck, stuck, and just start yelling at the stuck and say, no, I'm throwing dynamite on your butt. Now, I don't know exactly what the individual tactical thing to tell you to do is right now, except to encourage you and say, I think you're a whole lot better than you think you are right now. I'll give you some homework. If I were you, let's send you, find the work you're wired to do, because I think you need to get on a different career path.

42:07I think the career, what you did before, that's just hanging over your head. And the longer that you work in that, it's just driving you into depression. You need a new job and you need to not have four jobs because you've been doing that for too long. I'm going to look at this homeschool situation because your wife needs to be able to work. You need her help earning income in this season. And I'm not saying it's going to last forever, but those are the two things that need to shake loose immediately. Something's got to move. You decide what it is before it decides for you. That's the situation.

42:38Bust up into it, Bo. You're better than you feel like you are. Hang on. We're going to send you finding the work you're wired to do because you need some new work.

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44:32Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union Studio. I'm Dave Ramsey. Jade Washaw Ramsey personality. Number one bestselling author is my co-host. Carl's in Chicago. Hi, Carl. How are you? I am better than I deserve, I hope. How are you, too? Just the same, sir. How can I help? How can I go about helping someone that I truly care about without financially ruining myself in the process? Who's the person and what do you need to do to help them? So this is a girlfriend. We're dating for about two years. We actually technically, I ended things a couple weeks ago just because of the patterns with her money and her finances.

45:17Just kept leaving me in a bind. and now she's, like, really in a bad spot to where she's, like, facing eviction, and she's got a young son, and I don't know what to do because I don't want to enable her at the same time, you know, because I've tried many things until we got to this point, but I also don't want to see her homeless either. Are you thinking about this young son more, or are you thinking about, like, is it more about the son, or is it more about her? I think a lot. I mean, it's got to be the son. He we obviously had like a really close bond, like while we were together. And it's just I don't want to see a kid on the streets or like what stops her from working?

45:58Like, is there something that keeps her from being able to have a job? Sort of. She was working when we were together. Early 2025, she did get sick where I I took over the family finances and everything. and she still has this sickness, but she ended up going back to work after we had broken up. And she's had two jobs since we've been together and I did make her several budgets. I'm like, hey, this is how much you make. This is how much you work. This will work if you just don't overspend. How old is she? But it's just always been 27. And what type of, I mean, I'm not trying to pry, but what kind of sickness was it?

46:39Yeah, stomach ulcers. okay okay um and she's smart yes very yeah so what do you perceive like just be flat out honest if I say to you hey level with me why isn't she working is it because she's lazy is it because she has a toxic trait like tell me why isn't she working yeah um I think more so it's like she has toxic traits um that obviously like led to our breakup too uh but you know obviously when I met her. You know, our first eight months were great until we got into the money issues and like me having to spot her. But it was just a lot. Okay. So you were living together. Were you living in that apartment?

47:22Yes, for a little bit. I mean, we never like officially lived together, but I was over there fairly often. Okay. And so you were paying the rent for a while? I was, yes. I was helping her when she wasn't working, correct. Yeah. And how much is the rent? uh 10 50 okay and how much does it take to get a current uh it's like 4 000 okay and you you've been gone for i thought you said you broke up two weeks ago we did i mean we got how's she four months behind if you were helping with the rent uh i was helping with the rent until june when we broke up oh i thought you said you broke up two weeks ago we started talking again but never superficial, but yeah.

47:58Did she ask you for help? Or are you just looking at this saying, I need help. She needs help. She, she hasn't helped. She hasn't asked yet, but she has before when she gets in these situations, like just trackable money since we've met. Does she have any, does she have any money at all? None. No. Okay. So does she have a job now? Yes. Okay. So if she was current, could she stay? Yes. And she couldn't make it going forward? How much money do you have? Maybe. I've got about$7 ,000 in my name. Okay. You can't help her. You don't have enough money. Yeah. It's really sad. Does she have family? Yes.

48:40I don't know the dynamic too well. Obviously, when we were together, she had family issues too. So I don't know if they would help her willingly. I just don't know. You don't have the money to help her. And if I were in your shoes, here's the facts. She hasn't asked you for help yet. That's thing number one. You're kind of thinking about this and it hasn't even happened yet. I'm not even sure why you know all of this if you've been broken up. Number two, if, let's just play this out because let's pretend they did end up on the streets. I don't think they will. I think she's going to figure something out because the truth is she was probably existing just fine before you came into the, or she was surviving.

49:18I don't know if she was doing just fine, but she was surviving before you came into the picture. if for some reason you got wind of the fact that this little boy was on the street where are you living yeah uh i live on my own right now so is there a way that you could say he can stay with me for a couple of weeks until you get on your feet i could do that yeah so there are some options here that involve you helping if it got to the worst case scenario but i don't like the idea of you trying to be superman and keep any of this from happening to begin with yeah if you had 700 grand and you want to write one four thousand dollar check to walk away from this clean dust your hands off shake the dust off your feet and walk away yeah that'd be okay but you ain't got 700 grand you got seven grand you don't have any money you're broke and you've got debt too don't you uh no luckily oh good okay that's good yeah you're not in a position financially to give up half of your net worth four thousand yeah five thousand bucks to do this it's just not it's not It's not tenable, and it's not your job either.

50:18I mean, because within two miles of you, there's eight of these people. You just happen to know this one. That's true. Okay, yeah. Yeah, and you're just not Jesus. That's his job. You can't do his job for him. And so you can only do what you can do. And so I'm with Jade. If you find out that the little boy needs some help, you can help him. if it was you know if it was a small percentage of your world i would give her some money and then just no more ever again and but she's gonna mess it up again and he said he's already done and here's my thing because i don't want anybody to think oh my gosh jay's you're screwed you're so mean that there's nothing wrong with her if she was on drugs if she was having some sort of i mean she's got stomach ulcers but it seems like she can work she already has another job i think that in this case, it would be enabling.

51:11I think that it would be for her, somebody who's just kind of softening the fall. Okay, I don't have to work as much. Okay, he's going to be here. I think that she can do this. He said she's smart. She's capable. If she has personality issues, go see a therapist. That's all I'm saying. So it's interesting that a lot of the things that keep us from working, the income from working solves. Work? Yeah. Money? Yeah. Money. Work creates money, and then you don't have anywhere near the stress, and so the stomach ulcers, which are a stress-induced by and large thing, I mean, the reason you got stomach ulcers is you've been broke all your life because you don't maintain a job all your life, and so these are created situations.

51:57And so, yeah, your anxiety, so to speak, that everybody throws that word around these days, goes down. Your stress goes down. Your health improves when you create some margin in your life. And there's only one way to do that, and that's work. A lot. And you won't die from hard work. Right before you die, you pass out. You won't die. so just working all the time just just like a crazy person and it creates this big old pile of money and money's not everything but paid rent is paid rent is and paid electricity is and food on the table is and christmas presents are and all those things happen all that stuff's what money buys money's not important but what it buys oh the stuff it buys is really important

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54:50Alex is in Allentown, Pennsylvania. Hi, Alex. How are you? Good. How are you doing, Dave? Good. How can we help? Yeah, I've gotten myself into a pretty big hole with payday loans. Ooh. Totaling about 3 ,500. You know, the APRs on them are all 500 % or so. Yep. Yeah, I took them out because I got laid off in August, and I didn't have a good enough credit score to get a loan to get me help with rent and everything. And I'm starting a new job in about three weeks. And in the meantime, I've been working Lyft and making about$800 or so a week. And basically all of my money just goes to those payday loans and basic living expenses.

55:42and I just really want to get out of this cycle. What's the new job pay? It'll be 63 plus some bonuses, so probably about 70. That's good. What else can you do for the next three weeks other than lift? That's the thing. I don't know. I'm already doing 10-hour days, five, six days a week. So you're making$1 an hour. What else can you do?

56:12do you have a lawnmower can you go cut grasses and trim hedges and rake leaves and detail cars can you do something like that where you can set a higher rate yeah so i've been looking on craigslist and facebook for just general odd jobs and the only thing that i've been able to get was i helped this guy move um move all this furniture and stuff for like 200 bucks. You know, it's not really the best area, but that's something that I would be qualified for. What about, I'm just, I'm spitballing with you. What about, it's holidays. What about like hanging up lights? People need help hanging up lights.

56:51What about something like that? I'm just trying to think. FedEx, you can throw boxes. FedEx and UPS are hiring right now. And they're paying more than you're making with Lyft because you're making 800 coming in, but you got gas and wear and tear on the car coming out of that. Yeah, yeah. If you're driving that car 10 hours a day, you're not making any money. Yeah, I thought about going and just getting a simple being a server or bartender or working at UPS or FedEx. I just don't want to go through that whole process and then just leave in two weeks. No, keep it. Keep it. Your new job doesn't work on the weekends.

57:30Yeah. Work Saturday and Sunday. Mm-hmm. Yeah, I could do that. You're going to need to. And clean this mess up. In the meantime, the first thing you do is you buy food. The second thing you buy is you buy electricity. The third thing you buy is rent. The fourth thing you do is pay a car payment. Only after all of your living expenses are covered do you pay anything on a payday loan. And don't you ever walk in those places again and borrow money the rest of your freaking life. Remember the pain of this and remember the stupidity of this and the ridiculous trap that you voluntarily stepped into so you never do it again, okay?

58:09Yeah, yeah. I don't ever want to pay 500%. Teach your children. Teach your grandchildren. Teach everyone's children to stay away from those scumburgers. They are screwing people. yeah um the other thing was i was thinking about just revoking my bank authorization to them so they can't charge me anymore until i can yes get out of it yes that's fine yeah it's fine but but you can stop it that's fine just stop it or change your bank account or close your bank account i don't care but the point is you're gonna have to pay them the 3500 and you're gonna pay them a bunch of stupid interest at some point and the more money you make the faster that's going to happen and then never under any circumstances go in there again okay yeah i know i i knew it was stupid too yeah i mean it's just you you you stepped in a bear trap and guess what it ripped your leg off oh my gosh this is ridiculous i'm so sorry wow it's such a trap though it's such a rip off um but yeah you just have to be one of those guys who goes yeah back then when i was that alex I did that, and I won't ever do that one again.

59:21And I got a lot of those in my life, Alex, a lot of stuff that I used to do that I don't do anymore. And it's caused me to have money, and it's caused me to have a better life and a better walk with Jesus and everything else because I don't do the stuff I used to do, the other version of Dave, right? And so it changed everything. And that's where you are. That's who you're going to be, and you're on your way. You're going to clear this up, but the faster and the more you work, the faster you create income And the more income you create over the next four months, the faster this thing goes away and becomes a memory of that dumb thing I did a long time ago.

59:54You'll tell your grandkids, back in August of 25, I was over there debating. You can tell the grandkids story, right? And go, I did that stupid stuff, son. You stay out of them places. You'll be that grandpa, right? And that's the grandpa you want to be, not the one that's still living broke. The thing is, though, what I keep thinking about when I hear his call is he had been on the edge. Before. Before. And. He had no margin when he got laid off. Had no margin. And all it took was one little flick and then all the dominoes fell down. Yep. And somebody listening is on the edge. Like there's a whole bunch of somebody listening.

1:00:32Uh-huh. And you better wise up on this call. You need to buckle down right now. Otherwise, you're going to get laid off at the work. Because they don't come in and tell you like seven months from now we're going to lay you off. Right. They come in and tell you seven minutes from now you're leaving the building. And that's what they tell you. Yep. Because corporate America has one job and it's piss on their employees. And so that's their only job and they're really good at it. So, you know, this is what happens. So now you've got to build a margin of an emergency fund and no debt payments. You got$30 ,000 in the bank and no payments and they lay you off.

1:01:07You look at them and go, what's the severance? You got$30 ,000 in credit card debt and no money, and they lay you off. You go, oh, crap. I am heading down to the payday loan place. You're at the mercy of whatever desperate thing you do next. Yeah. Sarah's in South Dakota. Hi, Sarah. What's up?

1:01:27Sarah is gone. Locked out. She dropped out. Scary question. You scared her off. Scary question. Brian is in Minneapolis. Hi, Brian. How are you? Hi, good afternoon, Mr. Ramsey and Jade. Hey. I'm doing well. Question for you guys, which I'm glad I have male and a female. I'm engaged. I'm 45 years old. My fiancé does not quite know what my net worth is. How do I tell her fully and that my lawyer says I pretty much have to have a prenup? Your lawyer is not in charge of your life. No, I agree, Dave. Number one, lawyers give advice. They don't tell me what to do. And then I decide if, A, that I want them to be my lawyer anymore, and B, if I'm going to take their advice.

1:02:19They don't get to tell me I have to do something. You're not the boss of me. So how in the world do you get engaged and have never told her? You should have told her before you got engaged. I agree. She knows I'm worth a decent amount. She just doesn't know the full amount. What is the full amount? Close to$20 million. Wow. $12 to$20 million. That's a little vague. Did you say close to$20 million? Just shy of the last time I had my financials audited. And you're telling me there's no signs that you're a$20 millionaire? She knows I'm a millionaire, but she doesn't quite know that much. No. I live very frugal.

1:03:01lived in the same house since 2005, dragged a vehicle from 2011. Okay. Okay, so you said your net worth is close to$20 million. Did I mishear you? Nope, you did not mishear me. You said 12 to, I thought I heard you say 12 to 20. He said close to 20. Okay, so I did mishear you. You said close to 20. Okay, so let's call it$20 million. $19 ,600 ,000. What do you make a year? $700-ish thousand. Does she know that? she knows i make a good amount yeah well she doesn't know that no how long have you been together three years how long have you been engaged uh eight months so you were can i can i ask a clear question for that long of a period of time that means you were intentionally keeping it from her there was a point that came i'm not going to tell her this yes and no and my question for you is why?

1:04:00I was in a relationship once where I found out it started because of the money. Yeah, that makes sense. I guess I never wanted to. Hang on, we're going to talk about this after the break because it's a good question. I appreciate you calling in. Hang on.

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1:06:06We're talking with Brian in Minneapolis. Jade Washaw is my co-host. Brian has a net worth of around$20 million. and he's been engaged for eight months and has not told her yet the amount of his wealth. He makes$700 ,000 a year, and she doesn't know exactly how much. She knows he has a lot, makes a lot, but that's all and not everything. And that's about how far we got in the conversation. He's asking how to let her know now and to talk to her about a prenup. So let me backtrack for a second. So the reason you've not disclosed this to her is because you had someone before that was after you, and you realized they were only after you for your money, right?

1:06:48Yeah, you can sum it up to that. Yeah, and so how do you know this lady's not? I can say we did have a talk about debt because obviously I'm not a fan of it. And she did at one time have some debt, and I went in. How do you know she's not after your money? uh because she never asked for anything she she tried to pay me back tried to give me money every month when i did that and i obviously said i don't want it please oh she gave you gave her some money i i did pay off her debt she had debt and i did pay it off how much looked at it that uh it looked like 40 000 so i wouldn't you know some student loans uh car and she had unfortunately a payday loan like you just talked about.

1:07:33For someone who's so worried about her not finding out that you have wealth because she might be after you for your money, you sure did write a $40 ,000 check. That's inconsistent. Yeah, I look at that as I've been with her for years, and if it got checked up that I got burnt on it, I got burnt. How early into the relationship did you pay off her debt uh two years okay not early early no and i looked at it that if she left me and did she ask did she ask okay you did say that you didn't pay it back all right so okay here's the thing um what makes you what makes you what makes you so just the fact that she's never asked you for anything and offered to pay that back makes you think she's not after your money.

1:08:27Yeah, I just think I would have seen it in the close three years that we've been together. She never came to me for money. So how do you react to this statement? You should have told her before you asked her to marry you. Agree. Okay. All right. Because you shouldn't ask someone to marry you that you can't be honest with and transparent with that you don't trust. You know, I fully know I'm in the wrong. So I think the conversation starts with that. I owe you an apology. We should have talked in detail about our finances before we got engaged. And I didn't do that because I was afraid because of this other person the way I was treated before.

1:09:12I don't think you're that person. And I didn't know how to handle this. And so I'm sorry. Now I've got to do something that I should have done eight months ago, and that's unpack for you what I have. Yeah, no, I truly agree. I think that's the way you have the conversation and you have it. You have 24 hours, my man. Okay. No more dreading this, no more thinking about it. This is cost. You can't sleep. You're fretting about this. You're worried about this. A second quick question then. I actually won't see her. We actually, I'm an American and she's a Canadian, so I travel back and forth. so I won't see her for actually a couple weeks.

1:09:51Well, then wait until you see her. This is in person. Yeah, this is in person. Okay, yeah. Okay, and we do not recommend prenups except in situations where there's extreme difference in their net worth, and there's extreme difference here, so I do recommend a prenup. Okay. I recommend it. I'm not your lawyer. I didn't tell you you have to do it. Yes. And let me tell you, if you think that you need a prenup to protect you from her don't get married yeah i i don't believe that for one second the only reason you're getting a prenup is to protect you from her crazy relatives and she has one yeah well everybody does and if you think they don't then that means it's you

1:10:38so all right so when you get next time you're in person we sit down and you start with i an apology that you should have trusted her enough to unpack this before you ask for her hand. Okay. And then you tell her what's going on and what we're doing. And, you know, a financial advisor has suggested we discuss, has recommended we have a prenup to protect us so you can look at your family and say, I don't have anything. He handles it all. And you go out of the marriage with what you came into the marriage with. and basic prenup stuff, okay? Sounds good. Yeah, very interesting. Thanks for the call.

1:11:20Thank you so much. Appreciate it. Yeah, have a great day. You too. So, Jade, John Deloney posed an interesting question to me the other day, and it'll come up again in the next few months because he's doing some writing about it. He read a book, I guess it was, or talked to an expert somewhere that said, you know, we tell people to get a will, right? Why? Because if you don't get a will, the law tells you and the court system tells you what's going to happen. That's right. That's right. That's right. And this guy's argument to get a prenup was so intriguing. We had a great discussion about it the other day on the plane.

1:11:57This guy's argument was you have a prenup because the law is there. The law, the judge and the court's going to, just like with a will, they're going to tell you what's going to happen. but with a prenup you decide you you decide what's going to happen and i've been so anti-prenup over the years that that created a really interesting discussion i'm still not going to tell you to get a prenup but it did it didn't make me it did frame it in a way i had never thought about it before which is you can pre-decide while you're in your right mind yeah what just like you do with a will without spite without anger without just like you do with a will and then the judge doesn't tell you The judge has to go along with what the prenup says.

1:12:37Judges, you know, if the prenup's properly written, it can't be the courts. The courts can't undo it. And so, I mean, by and large, there's some movie scenes that tell you. But, I mean, it's, I think of that one with Clooney that's hilarious. But anyway, the, yeah, you pre-decide what's going to happen. Otherwise, the law decides. That's right. And the judge decides. That's the same thing we tell people to do with a will. Now, the difference is you're going to die and you might not get divorced. That's facts. That's facts. Yeah, yeah, yeah. There's a difference there. And, you know, while dying is a spiritual decision, so is divorce.

1:13:14I think the divorce thing, it's like that foreboding. It's almost like you're going to create a self-fulfilling prophecy. Exactly. That's the problem. You're planning something. And so you're aiming at it unintentionally. You spoke it. Yes, because everybody dies. Everybody doesn't have to get divorced. Yeah, I get it. Exactly, yeah. So it's just interesting. I had never heard it framed that way. And it made me stop and think about prenups. I was a little lighter, a little calmer about it. Because I'm real anti-prenup. I know. We had one lady call here on the show many years ago, said her fiancé wanted to get a prenup because he had a 67 vintage Mustang.

1:13:50And I'm like, don't marry this guy. He loves his car more than you. Run, girl, run. and so you know that that's the kind of crap i associate with prenups right um but the idea that two people could sit down bucks and you know that's a lot but even the idea that two people could sit down and say hey we're getting married let's do some some planning and if you decided together here's in the unlikely event it's like it's like when you ride a plane and they go through the safety precautions yeah exactly in the unlikely event of a water landing a divorce landing here's what we're gonna do yeah and then it's like you've done it before there's anger before there i don't know it's an interesting conversation for sure wow i i i'm still not a fan i'm still not gonna tell you to do it but it did i will i'm admitting here on the air that it made me stop and think about it i'm thinking about it now it's a different different framing to the whole prenup discussion as i'm thinking about it though i'm also thinking if sam warshaw came to me with this conversation, I'd be like, Yeah.

1:14:53The door is that way. We'd be done, bud. We'd be done, man. Yeah. We'd be done. Yeah, so yeah. So there you have it. The other thing is, I mean, Sharon and I got married at 22 years old. I had$1.12. Yes. I mean, I couldn't even have paid to have the prenup done. Right. Much less thought about I needed one. Uh-huh. And I had negative dollars, so there you have it. I was just so happy to be here. You know, that's all. I'm just happy to be here. Wow.

1:16:04Countdown to Christmas is on. We got a ton of great deals for Black Friday and Cyber Monday. Plus, we're dropping special one-day sales on Black Friday and Cyber Monday. We're talking hardcover books, audiobooks, assessments, some with as low as$3.99. Don't miss these deals. Go to RamseySolutions.com slash store or click the link in the show notes in the description. We would love to have you. All right, Jennifer is on a Zoom call with us in California. Hi, Jennifer. How are you? I'm well. How are you? Thank you so much for having me, you guys. Thank you. Our honor. How can we help you today? um this is a hard question i need help around my heart because my heart is not right i'm having resentment and i'm a christian i don't believe that that is what we need to do uh i married a wonderful man but now we are uh continuing to pay his ex-wife's child support she went back for more and i am angry and resentful and it's we're snapping at each other more and i'm i took jade's advice jade taught me this where she said fight the problem not fight each other right so I'm like, okay, we're going to fight the problem.

1:17:11But, um, but it's affecting everything. It's affecting even me parenting his kids and it's just affecting everything. The amount, the amount of it or the, the, him having to deal with her. I think all of it. Cause he's, cause we, we do everything together. Right. So it's not just him that actually triggered me. I love that you said that too. Like that he's going through it and I'm like, I'm going through it too. I love it's my money as well and he just got a layoff um and so his last you know he's going to end december and then he's he's laid off and mama does not make enough for our four walls like our four walls are 7 300 just to exist is 7 300 a month and what do you make a month mama only makes three uh 38 84 and what was he making he makes uh 50 60 so 5 ,060 okay and how much is the child support so the child support's not killing it's 500 it's 500 right now we go back because he's laid off so the court knows that he's getting laid off so we go back in february because she wants she wants like the gut the all of it yeah the gut the good stuff um and so thankfully they they and she she surprises us too that she came to court and was like oh well I was laid off too so now we're like oh what like yeah you didn't tell us that you were laid off we were transparent and let her know that oh gosh you know he received a layoff and you know we're done in December but then we found out like because she's remarried but then we found out she's not remarried and she's okay she had a ceremony she's married can I can I can I bust in here because I'm not in your situation but if I were in your shoes I can see why this is a pain point I can see how it's annoying I can And especially, I mean, this woman's in your life, whether you like it or not.

1:18:56If I could make this way more, if I were in your shoes, I'd be picturing the child. Because the fact is, if you make a human being, you got to pay for them, period. Like the same way you pay for money to raise your kids. That's just part of it. So I'd be thinking way more about the kid as much as you can. Imagine them, think about what that$500 is doing for them and try to keep her out of that vision as much as possible. Yeah, this is not ex-wife support. This is child support. Right. Yeah. And honestly, when he is working, what is the child support? We don't know yet. So because she's still. He's never paid child support?

1:19:36No, he did. Well, so she actually was not awarded child support and alimony, which she went for the first time. She was because when he laid everything out, he paid everything already. He paid her car insurance. He paid cell phone plus all the kids. So the court decided was just disparaging income. He got family support. So he used to pay about 500 family support with the stipulation that he continues to pay everything all after school care, dental, you know, all the things plus her car insurance and her cell phone and stuff. He still had to do that for two years. OK, but that's over now. That's over now.

1:20:10That was over. And you married into that, though. You knew that when you got married. Right. OK. So let me let me. So that was how much total in a month that he was paid. So she, oh gosh, to total all the bills, I don't know. All the bills were, like all the medical, her car insurance, whatever, probably. So when you go back, it's not going to be any of that. It's going to just be a percentage of his income. Yes. Okay, good. In February, it'll be whatever. That's really good because really what that does is it disconnects her from misbehaving and wanting it paid for. Okay, she just gets a fixed amount of his income regardless, but she doesn't get it anyway.

1:20:44Kiddo gets it to Jay's point. It's for the child. So we're paying this for this child. And you knew this when you came in. It's not his fault. It's not your fault. And it's not even benefiting the lady, the ex-wife. It's just benefiting the kid. And truthfully, the reason I ask how much is most of the time in most states, the child support that is paid is not enough to raise a kid. It's a very small amount. Yeah. So he's going to pay a lot, and it's going to be bothersome. But it's still not enough to raise a kid. And so, yeah. And how old is the child? We have two. Well, he has two. So he has a seven-year-old son and an 11-year-old daughter.

1:21:25And then I have two. Okay. So we've got a family of six over here. How old are yours? So my, so, oh my God, you guys, we're in the thick of it. We have a seven-year-old, a 10-year-old, an 11-year-old, and a 12-year-old. So then this is easy for you to imagine these kids when you write that$500 check or whatever it's going to be. It's easy for you to imagine, okay, yeah, they go to ballet and they go to, you know, they have soccer and they have school lunch. You know what this money's going for. They need new boots, all that stuff. That's what you need to focus on that. And you need to get practical about this.

1:21:58You need to have it somewhere where when you start to spin out and you're thinking about her and you're thinking about him and you're thinking about the past, because you told us a lot of stuff that's not even currently happening anymore. You need to focus on what is happening today and what is the benefit. And just remind yourself, here's why I'm doing this. I got to refocus. And I think that's going to help you. His youngest is how old? Seven. Okay. She's got 10 years, 11 years. Yes. That's really not much. In the scope of life, that's not much. It's a me problem. No, we're not picking on you.

1:22:31I think it's normal to have the emotions that you have. You ask how to handle them, and we're just suggesting we redirect them and compartmentalize them. you've uh the way you've described it with your language was it's all about her and jade's point is none of it's really about her other than she's obviously a test pilot for a broom factory yeah so i mean you know no there's a reason she's called the x and so you know and and so we get that part but that's normal dealing with x's there's a reason they're gone and so uh but yeah you're going to be in weddings together and you'll be at other things together in the future and for the rest of your life and it'll get easier and easier.

1:23:13But yeah, I like the idea that we're getting away from paying individual expenses like her cell phone. That sounds kind of ridiculous and personal. I would be much more torqued about that if I were in your shoes than I would just writing a child support check. Yes, that was very difficult when I first, yeah that's just that's just stupid that was just a bad idea yeah but that part's over yeah it's gone that part it's done and gone so you know wrapped up put a bow on that i have a feeling you love your husband and i have a feeling you actually love his kids i do yeah of course i do so this is this is their money yeah and you would help them because you're a good mom so yeah that is really helpful yeah oh my gosh that's that's the right way to do it yeah you're heading in the right direction for sure there so i'm proud of you it's a good question it is and appreciate you being vulnerable and coming on the air with us and talking about it it's such a human way to feel yeah you know yeah it's hard i mean kiddos are kiddos and that's where we are thanks for calling we appreciate you being with us fun wow i like that video situation this nice yeah i mean that's super i mean we get these calls in there on the air on the phone it's anonymous is right here where you just walked up.

1:24:27Yeah, right into her house. I liked that. And on a very personal, intimate question. Oh, yeah. So very interesting. Very interesting. That's not easy. That's not an easy situation to deal with. No, but I mean, you know, so I guess some advice would be for everyone out there, if you're going through this, don't set up a situation where you're paying for individual bills like that with the ex. Like, for God's sakes, her cell phone. that one's just whack well then you're in their life you're without wanting to you're judging how they're you know judging the cost judging i want them to be away that's the reason they're x go away yes way away way away go find an away place to be you know i don't i don't want to know what your issues are i actually know what they are and i don't want to know about them anymore you know and so yeah i don't want to know about medical i don't you know you deal with your stuff there's an idea.

1:25:24That's what you signed up for when you became the ex. You deal with your stuff. And here's what the law says I have to do to take care of my baby, and I will do to take care of the baby. That's what I'm going to do. Wow. Wow, wow, wow.

1:26:11Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio. Jade Washall, number one bestselling author, Ramsey Personality, is my co-host today. I am Dave Ramsey, your host. Albert Einstein famously said, Compound interest is the eighth wonder of the world. He who understands it earns it. He who doesn't pays it. If you invest$100 a month and you got average stock market returns for the past 100 years or so, you would hit around 12 percent a hundred dollars a month invested from age 25 to age 65 is 1 ,176 ,000 how is it that 1 ,200 a month for 40 years becomes 1 million dollars 1 ,200 a year for 40 years there you go yeah becomes it's called compound interest so compound interest, Buffett described it as a snowball rolling down the hill.

1:27:18So a little snowball picks up a little snow the first time it comes around. The next time it comes around, it's larger and it picks up more snow. The next time it comes around, it picks up more snow. And the next time it picks up, then that's called a mathematical geometric progression. And so compound interest shows you that interest works on a curve. It is not a straight line. So an example of that is, if you took a$500 ,000 mortgage, now interest rates currently on homes for a 15-year fix is 5.5%, okay? So if you took out a 5 % loan, we'll call it, to make it easy, on a half a million dollars, your payment on that 15-year fixed-rate loan would be$3 ,953.

1:28:01If you doubled the amount of time that you're in debt, from 15 years to 30 years, you would think, if you didn't understand compound interest, that your payment would be half. So 15 should be double what a 30 is, correct? Well, it's not. It's only 33 % more to be in debt half 50 % of the time. That's right. Because you're doing away with the principal and doing away with the need to pay interest. and so you pay a lot less interest and your pay and so your payment is only 33 percent more to go to a 15 year from a 30 year it's not it's not double but if you don't understand how the math works you think oh a 15 and a 30 is a thing so a couple of weeks ago uh president donald trump Trump came out with this crazy idea for 50-year mortgages, to which instantaneously my friend Seth Dillon over at Babylon Bee does a Photoshop of me in intensive care, Dave Ramsey's in intensive care in critical condition after learning of 50-year mortgages.

1:29:17You don't look so good. And I really look pretty sick in this. You don't look so good. Here's the dumbest thing, okay? All of my 65-year-old and 60-year-old and 70-year-old friends sent that to me laughing because it's the best dad joke ever. It's hilarious. But none of my 25-year-old friends thought it was that funny. They didn't even get it, really. It's like, I don't understand. But I did look pretty sick in there, Seth. I mean, did you really? You doctored the face up and everything. You were slim. The guys at Babylon Bee, I look kind of old there. You're like, water. I need water. Yeah. So Babylon Bee's funny.

1:29:50They're friends of ours, and they always pick on me. But it's good natured and we love them and they're great. But here's the thing. President Trump actually realizes, I suppose, because he is a math guy and a real estate guy, that the difference in a 50 year mortgage and a 30 year mortgage is more about looking like he did something to help people than the math is. This is a political stunt by President Trump. if he actually knows what's going on. Otherwise, it's an ignorant stunt by President Trump. I don't know which one it is. Because the difference in a 50-year mortgage and a 30-year mortgage, as we just described, you would think it would be almost half, but it's only 16 % less.

1:30:38So your payment on a 50-year on a half million dollars is$2 ,200. On a 30-year is$2 ,600. You save a whole$300 by going in debt an extra 20 freaking years. And you save$300. And this is going to fix America's housing crisis. Oh, horse crap, Trump. That's absolutely asinine, and you know it. It's ridiculous. I mean, come on. And then talk about the interest. I mean, this is like Joe Biden saying he's forgiving student loans when he knows he can't. Okay? It's just the same. It's political stunt. You know you can't do this. The law won't let you do it, but you're walking around, strutting around, acting like you did something.

1:31:21You politicians. So Trump's like, I'm going to give him a 50-year mortgage. Because he's got billions of dollars of mortgages on all these New York buildings, and he just loves debt. He thinks it's awesome. He and I have disagreed on that since back in the Larry King days. I remember. Y 'all remember Larry King? Oh, Larry King Live, of course. We used to do those TV shows, and they had like six people on there. It looked like Brady Bunch. Looks like the Brady Bunch. We're in the boxes on the Brady Bunch, and Trump will be in the left-hand bottom corner, and I'm up in the other corner, and I'm yelling at him about getting out of debt.

1:31:49And he's like, who is this hillbilly on the thing with me? That's the first time he and I ever talked was I got in a big fight with him on Larry King like 25 or 30 years ago. I actually like President Trump in general, and I've been around him several times. But this is an absolute bogus political stunt, and he knows that he's over laughing at you people going, oh, 50 years. We're not going to have to pay anything. We can get a mortgage for almost nothing. Compound interest, baby. We just explained it to you. It saves you almost nothing over a 30-year mortgage. 16%, but you're almost 100 % more in debt.

1:32:23But talk about the fact that it's a trap in that, because I've heard a lot of people say, well, I can get it. It's a great place to start. And then later on, I can move to something else. There's a great place to start to go to a payday lender, too. It's a great place to start to go to a pawn shop. This is an absolute stupid statement. They're not thinking about when you do that, how quickly are you gaining equity? You're not gaining any equity, except the house goes up in value. Yeah. But you could get an interest-only loan, and it would be almost the same thing. Basically. They had interest-only loans for a while.

1:32:51Y 'all remember those? That was stupid on steroids. Hello, 2008. We're calling. And yeah, does anybody remember stupid on steroids? I remember it. How about a one-year adjustable rate mortgage tied to an index that already started in the hole your first day? In other words, if you had to adjust it the day you took out the mortgage, you would already be going up. That's how all the one-year arms are set up, by the way, boys and girls. This is why it's stupid. The game is rigged. So what you want to do is if you're going to get in the game, you want to get out as fast as possible, not plan to stay in.

1:33:21So you're not saving anything by taking out a 50-year mortgage. Sorry, President Trump. Bogus move. You either knew it or you didn't, but now when you hear this, you'll at least know. and I was on a call with him just a few weeks ago on some other stuff. And you told him it was done? No, it wasn't out by then. It came out about three days after that. But I'm not going to, you know, he'll hear about this or he won't. It doesn't matter. He's not taking Dave Ramsey's opinion anyway, I can tell you that. He is not worried about what I think at all. You're not worried about what any of them thinks.

1:33:53But bottom line, boys and girls, this political move, okay, whether you love Trump, whether you hate Trump, a 50-year mortgage has no mathematical substantiality. If it cut your payment in half, we could talk about it. But it cuts at 16%. Don't be stupid. If you're interested in lowering your payment$300, just get a slightly cheaper house. Oh, whoa! Mic drop! Whoa! This is why we pay her the big money right here, boys and girls.

1:34:34We'll be right back.

1:34:43So

1:35:00when you're tired of feeling stuck with money, there's just one solution. To get different results, you have to do something different. No one accidentally wins with money. You have to have a game plan, and that begins with our Get Started Assessment. Go to RamseySolutions.com slash start, answer some questions, and we'll show you what steps to take next. Don't stay stuck. Take control of your money starting today. Go with RamseySolutions.com slash start.

1:35:37Tis the season. Time of year when we talk about giving. We're going to be doing our giving edition, the special giving edition of the Ramsey Show in December. We want to hear stories from you about how you have given generously sometime in the past. And maybe you tipped a waitress$100 or$1 ,000 or bought Thanksgiving dinner for a family who couldn't afford it. Or maybe you blessed someone in need by giving them a car. Maybe it was something other than that. We want to hear something that makes everybody be inspired to give. Generosity is the most fun you can have with money. Maybe you've been on the receiving end and had your life changed by someone who was generous to you.

1:36:16Well, we want to hear from you either way. Go to RamseySolutions.com slash ask. Put giving in the subject line. Tell us a little bit about the story. And we do this every year at Christmastime. It's one of our most popular shows. It's coming up on December 18th. So start sending in your stories on giving today. Let's celebrate living like no one else so later you can give like no one else. Robin is with us in Orlando. Hi, Robin. Welcome to the Ramsey Show. Thank you for taking my call. I really appreciate it. You're the only person I think that I want your opinion on this. My husband wants to buy a$300 ,000 car, and it just puts a rock in the pit of my stomach.

1:37:00Wow. So my question is— What is the car? Yeah, like a Shelby. Oh, wow. Really? Oh, see, now you like it. See, that's my finance guy, Matt. I say to Matt, and that's like, well, I'll go with him. Listen, it's a very cool car. But so the question is just, you know, how much is$300 ,000 in your all's world? What's your all's net worth? Close to$20 million. $20 what? Million. So you have$20 million. Okay. And are you retired, or does he work? We're retired. We retired last year. Okay. Sold a business, and we are, yeah, fully retired. Plenty of investment. I mean, I really have no reason to say no to this except something in me says, this is absolutely ridiculous.

1:37:50This is the worst idea he's ever had. But I don't want to cause a problem and say that. So I need somebody to tell me which direction to go. I think you should say that. and i think then i think then i think you should say that's how i feel but my brain tells me that we have the money and you've worked hard a really long time and this is a small amount of money to us my heart doesn't understand that and my stomach definitely doesn't understand that because you remember the old days when y 'all were broke and couldn't you know couldn't afford to go out to eat right oh yeah i always took care of the money and yeah so here's the thing i've gone We're going through the same stuff, Robin, Sharon, and I have.

1:38:34And, you know, we've got 1 ,100 people working here. We buy the coffee for our team. The coffee bill at Ramsey blows my freaking mind, okay? Because my mind still remembers my 28-year-old self that was bankrupt and couldn't feed my kids, right? My emotions still feel that. My mind, though, knows that the company took in$300 million last year. We can probably pay the coffee bill, right? We can afford the math. The math says it's no big deal, but the emotions are remembering the past, not the current. And so I have to use my intellect to go, it's okay to buy coffee for 1 ,100 people because it really is a small percentage of our overall budget and overall world.

1:39:26And here's the thing. Here's the thing. When Sharon wants to buy something expensive or Dave, or we want to give away$300 ,000 to charity, to a ministry, okay, in your situation. We ask ourselves, if we took that amount of money and burned it in the kitchen floor, would our life change? So here's the thing. The stock market will move on your$20 million worth of investments more than$300 ,000 in the next 60 days, up or down. true and you won't even look at it that's true yeah so it's not because it's not it's not relevant it's not going to kill you if it moved if it moved if it moved 20 if it moved 18 million dollars out of 20 million yeah i'm starting to have a duck fit now girl okay i like how you put it it's a small It's a small percentage of your world, and you will survive.

1:40:25And the thing that makes you want to scream is remembering how hard it was in the old days to get to this point. And it's hard for your emotions to keep up with the math. A$300 ,000 card is just outrageous. It is. It is outrageous. You know what else is outrageous? You got$20 million, girl. That's freaking outrageously wonderful. That's so wonderful. You know why? Because y 'all busted your butt all these years, and then you sold that business, and somebody wrote y 'all a big old check. This is very true. Luck didn't have nothing to do with this, girl. You paid a price. You worked overtime. Y 'all know what a callus looks like.

1:41:10What kind of business was it? It was construction industry. Yeah, you definitely know what a callus looks like. You put up with some bull crap over the years. Yeah. Yeah. Just make him so happy, but 300 ,000 for a car. It's not going to make him happy. I want to talk to your wife and see what she says. She would say do it because I drive a Raptor that's probably over 100. So my Raptor R pickup truck is nuts. It's crazy. There's no reason anybody should ever have a truck like that. But it's a very, very small percentage of our world. All right. You've made me feel better. I appreciate it. I don't think you're being dumb.

1:41:51I don't think he's being dumb. I think you don't understand. I don't think you appreciate cars like he does. And that's OK. You don't have to. And I think you're a good lady for looking over his shoulder. And and I and I like don't you love the way she's. She really is asking the question. She's not telling us the question. You know what I'm saying that, Jade? Mm-hmm, I do. Well, it's been eating me. You know, kind of funny because I called a couple of times, and then I would find out, well, you weren't on, but I couldn't hold on anyway. So I just happened to get right through today because I knew I needed to ask you this.

1:42:25Oh, it's just me. I feel a lot better. All right. Well, I feel like your attitude with cars, and again, I wanted to talk to your wife more than you, I think. Yeah, doesn't everybody. We can't get her to come on. She comes on Rachel's show, but she won't come on my show. Darn. All right, he made me feel better. The rock in my stomach is a little easier. I will tell him. At least it'll get off my chest. Tell him you think it's dumb, but you think he's earned it. That's the way I'm going to put it. I think it's dumb, but he has earned it. That's the truth. He has earned it. $20 million freaking dollars for a construction company.

1:43:02I'm back. Back. Well, yeah. Did you go around the planet once? I went around the planet. I did an orbit, and now I'm back.

1:43:16so when you live like no one else one of the things we're discovering is we've shown people how to become millionaires in some cases multi-millionaires now we didn't show them how to sell their company they did that they will give them all the credit on that but we've shown a lot of people how to build a really nice level of wealth yeah and um but a lot of money is always a lot of money even if it's a smaller percentage everybody can look at three hundred thousand dollars and go that's a lot of money yeah i can look at that you know what i'm saying that part doesn't go away i gotta believe yeah and and you know and honestly probably top of the market for i mean the shelby that's a this is a special car but it's a special car i don't know i'm not sure anyway it doesn't matter yeah matter again it passes the burn the money in the middle of the floor test right and so this is why you can't afford to spend 20 i don't know let's just say twelve thousand dollars and go spend a week on fast pass at disney when you have twenty thousand dollars to your name you just spent all your money on disney now see that's way different there you know if you want to put this in a ratio with her uh you can afford a chick-fil-a biscuit I was going to say, that's drive-thru.

1:44:30That's your drive-thru biscuit. That's your drive-thru budget right there. So this is like you buying a biscuit if you got$20 ,000. Same thing. So$20 million,$20 ,000. But somehow it still doesn't feel that way. You know it, but it doesn't feel that way, huh? Or does it feel? Did buying your Raptor feel like a biscuit? Yeah. But it's the third one I bought. Okay, okay. You got three biscuits. I've gotten practice. Oh.

1:45:58Transcription by CastingWords Go to ramsysolutions.com slash insurance, ramsysolutions.com slash insurance.

1:46:16The all-new EveryDollar is here. It's way more than just our world-class budgeting app. A ton of advanced features to help you make faster progress with your money and show you hand by hand by hand how to follow the Ramsey way. The average person finds thousands of dollars in margin in the first 15 minutes of using the app. And that gets you started to work your way out of debt, into wealth, and into generosity. Start every dollar for free today. Get it in the App Store or on Google Play. The world's best financial tool, every dollar. The all-new one. Check it out. South Dakota's calling. Sarah's with us.

1:47:01Hi, Sarah. Hey, how are you guys today? Better than we deserve. What's up in your world? Well, I'll say, just have a quick question. So my husband and I got a term life insurance policy through Xander when our son was first born. But that was 15 years ago. And since then, life has hit a little bit. We are still making progress with our debt snowball. We're actually planning to pay off our last debt by hopefully February. However, we're not there yet. But over the years, our income has increased quite a bit. So when we were first married, we were making about$70 ,000 combined. And now we're making about$180 ,000.

1:47:52So my question is... Why has it taken you 15 years to get out of debt? Well, you know, maybe we weren't so gazelle intense. Like not at all. Okay. Right, right. But we're getting there now. So we're getting really close. So you still have a mortgage and you still have what else? We have$8 ,000 on my student loan. And we've got our mortgage. And that is all we have left. Wow. So what's the question today? So the question today, we are curious, do we need to consider increasing our life insurance through Xander, given that our income has gone up? I know the recommendation is like 10 to 12 percent of your overall income.

1:48:38Or because we're so close to being debt free, do we not need to take that approach because ultimately we'll be self-funded through insurance? No, you need to extend because being self-insured would denote that you've got a massive nest egg of wealth that can cover you when those situations arise. And you don't have that just yet. If you keep going with intensity, you will. But if you play the next 15 years like you've played this last 15 years, you won't. You're still going to be in debt. You'll still have a mortgage. Well, we are definitely not looking to do that. We're definitely looking to get to attach that mortgage as soon as the student loans paid off.

1:49:21So when you have enough money now, when you have enough money in investments that the income off of the investments will support you if he dies. Then you're self-insured. You're not there. We want you to be OK if something happens to him and you're not there. OK. And we want him to be okay if something happens to you and make sure the kiddos are fed and so forth. And that would be that, you know, and so if you had a million dollars and it was producing 10%, that'd be$100 ,000. Okay. And that's not even, that won't even take care of you now because you're making$180. $180 ,000. And so you'd need about$2 million in investments right now and zero debt in order to be self-insured equal to, you know, having the right amount of life insurance.

1:50:13So, no, yeah, you need to increase your life insurance and buy new policies. You know, if your 15-year fixed policy is running out, buy new ones. Yeah. And yeah. And here's the thing. If if you do get intense, if that did happen and you get out of debt and you look up and there's a million or two million dollars in investments and zero debt, you can cancel the life insurance. You don't have to keep paying it. You can just call them and cancel it. But if you're not if you don't smoke, folks, and you're not overweight, life insurance doesn't cost anything. It's very inexpensive. Very. So 15-year level, 15 - to 20-year level fixed rate.

1:50:55And the idea is that during that 15 years, you pay off your mortgage. Well, yeah. And you get out of debt. And you build up some investments. And the kids grow up and leave. That's right. During that 15 - to 20 years. And so we don't have kiddos to take care of. We've got a pile of money. And you work your way into a net worth that allows you to be self-insured. Not the policy. And so, but you guys have been slow. So you get to re-up your life insurance and, uh, and then you can always drop it later, but for right now, you're not ready. That's a good question. Yeah. Felix is in Los Angeles. Hi Felix.

1:51:30How are you? Hi Dave. Thank you so much for the opportunity, uh, to be on the show. Sure. Um, I'm calling today to get more, to get your advice on my current living situation. I work for a government utilities agency in Los Angeles as an engineer. I currently live in downtown L.A. I'm paying about$3 ,000 in rent per month. And I just turned 30 this year. And I watch your show. I hear your advice about ownership and owning a home someday. And that's a goal for my life as well. And I wanted to give you thoughts on renewing my lease, which expires this month, or going back home to stay with my parents.

1:52:19Well, how much do you bring home every month? So after tax, I bring home about somewhere between$6 ,000 to$6 ,500. So what you're telling me is your rent's 50 % of your take-home. Yes. Yes, it's around that. if you include utilities and, you know. Yeah, I know it. So I think, you know, there's one of two things that can happen here. You can either figure out a way to bus free and suddenly make$20 ,000, you know, a month, or you can look for someplace that's far less expensive for rent. What would you do if you moved, you know, away and moved towards where your family is? What would you do for a living?

1:53:07uh well i would still be an engineer um my my my my family stays in uh fontana which is about maybe uh 50 miles away from los angeles so i would you have an engineering degree uh yes i have a bachelor's in civil engineering and i have a master's in environmental engineering and you make 70 000 a year well that's that's no i make around 105 000 a year how long you've been school? I graduated with my master's in 2023 and shortly after is when I moved to LA and got my job in Los Angeles. Yeah. I mean, you're living in one of the most expensive places in the country. So that there is always going to be a limit because of that.

1:53:53So if I were in your shoes, yeah, I'd be looking for other places. Now, Fontana that you mentioned, I mean, have you priced it out? What's the difference? Where could you get a one bedroom and what would it cost? Would it get you to the 25 % range? Well, in L.A., it's very difficult to find a place to stay. I'm talking about Fontana, like you said. I'll be staying with my parents. Okay, so, Felix, here's the thing. Staying with your parents is not your play because it doesn't take you to the future you want. You've said nothing about where you want to be in 20 years. in 10 years and and how staying with your parents is going to get you there all we're doing solving the immediate problem by going backwards so no i'm not going to do that if i'm you i'm looking for a new job that pays 150 000 in a market where the rent is half of what it is in la and you make a move if for your career you're a single guy and you go out there and make some money and get your cost of housing down because and if you're working for utility your bumps your increases in pay are going to be moderate to poor.

1:55:08Yeah, it's a government job. Yeah, it's going to be moderate to poor. The pay is already low, and it's not going to get better. You're going to get cost-of-living bumps and nothing else. And so as an engineer, you can go out there and make twice what you're making now in an area that costs half what it costs to live in L.A. and that puts you in a position to build a life, a financial life, including homeownership. But the ratio you're giving me right now, going back to your parents doesn't solve it. That's regressing instead of saying, how can I move forward? So I'm going to be figuring out a way to move forward.

1:55:42Either a different kind of engineering application for my master's in engineering in Los Angeles where I make a lot more or a different city or both.

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1:56:53Our Scripture of the Day, Ecclesiastes 3.11. He has made everything beautiful in its time. He's also set eternity in every human heart. Yet no one can fathom what God has done from beginning to end. Andy Warhol said, they always say time changes things, but actually, you have to change them yourself. All right. This is true. I like that. Megan's in Detroit. Hi, Megan. What's up? Hi. I love you guys. I just want to say that first and foremost. But my question is, my husband and I just got married in September. and this year so far we've been really working the debt snowball and paying for our um like paying off some of our loans while saving for our wedding and the plan was when we finished saving and paying for our wedding we would go back and really like work our debt down and six weeks before we got married my little brother died and yeah it's not really what I pictured this season to look like.

1:57:56And I guess my question is, I'm just curious on your perspective of like taking a break from the dead snowball in the first year of this time. What happened to him? He was in an accident. How old was he? 23. What was his name? Rocco. Rocco. Okay. I'm sorry, Megan that hurts beyond belief um and you were obviously close yeah uh yeah and how old are you 29 okay all right well um

1:58:41you're welcome to do whatever you want to do it's your life okay and if you and your husband sit down and say, we're going to take X number of time off and just, we're not going into debt. We're not going to grief spend, but we're just going to take some time off with the intensity and cry a little. That would be perfectly fine. What I would recommend is A, that you stay on a plan because you can have a tendency to drift and go, well, I'm having kind of a down day, so I'm going to overspend. It's called grief spending, okay? And you don't want to do that. You don't want to lose ground. You won't like that later when you look back at it.

1:59:25Does that make sense? Yeah. It's easy to medicate grief with spending. A lot of people do it. And so be careful with that. But if you say, okay, we're going to slow off on the intensity, we're just going to pay the bills, go no further into debt, and just give ourselves a little cushion for some time to get to where we can breathe again. Well, that would be a human act. There's nothing wrong with that. What's like, I guess, because I know this is not really like a unique situation. I mean, it feels unique to me, but you guys hear this call a lot. Like, what's a good amount of time to give yourself before you start to...

2:00:04You know, we don't get this call a lot. we get the call where it's a spouse. And that's the one I've answered many times in the 35 years, but I don't know that I've gotten a call from a sister with a 23-year-old that was killed in an accident. I mean, that's a different kind of thing than your spouse. It could be a good idea. And I'm just talking out loud. It could be a good idea to give yourself a time limit so that you don't stay wandering for too long. Almost like, okay, I did my thing. It's time for me to get moving. It's kind of like when you're sitting on the couch, after a while, you need to just get up and stretch your legs and move around again.

2:00:45What's your household income? So after tax from our day jobs, we bring in$9 ,800 a month. Okay. And how much debt do you have? um we total 59 ,951 okay and you're obviously the nerd of the family you know everything to the point I love you you're awesome okay I love my husband he's not like a money stressor or why don't the two of you talk about it and pray about it and say all right how long do I need to get the majority or enough of my heart healed that I can focus okay because we do know this about grief when you're addressing it if you address it properly and you may need to sit down talk to someone about it may need to get a good therapist involved but um but if you're addressing it properly uh the the pain never leaves completely but it does get further and further and further in the rearview mirror and it's not that we're going to forget rocco that's not the point um or that his death's not going to be unimportant at some point.

2:01:54That's not what I'm saying. But I am saying right now, it's taking up a lot of your headspace. A year from now, it will be less. Five years from now, it will be less. Would you agree with that? I hope so. Yeah. You don't want to be sitting in exactly the same place of pain, and he wouldn't want you to. So we just say, you know, we acknowledge that it's hurting. We sit down and get some help with that, and we walk through it. And so, So, you know, you two talk about it and I don't really care, but I would highly recommend, A, that you stay on a system where you're not spending more. You're not going further in.

2:02:33That's a big deal. The two of you agree to that. But we're not going to work six jobs. We're not going to, you know, we'll go out to eat. We're going to take some time off here. We're not going to throw money off the debt snowball like it's like our life depends on it. We're not doing any of that right now. and we're going to give ourselves a period of time. And so I'll give you just a guess, but it's not a professional guess because Dr. John Deloney is not here, okay? I'm just dad, okay? I'm just the old man. So it feels like that you need 60 to 90 days. And I think at the end of that time, if you're working on this, you're going to have a lot clearer head.

2:03:15That's my guess. But this happened right before the wedding, and then you had the wedding, so you had these two huge events all within a couple of minutes of each other, and now we're going into Christmas and Thanksgiving. And so it's like boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. Agreed? Yeah. Yeah. So you get the other side of the first of the year and let things calm down a little bit and get a little bit more boring because boring has not been your life lately. and then that's kind of when some of this will flush out, I think. But that's just an old guy talking, not a professional. Does that feel right to you?

2:03:54I think so. I definitely, like, I want to be intense about paying off our debt still, and then when I go to do it, I just don't. Yeah, it's not the most important thing to you right now, and that makes sense. Yeah. This saps some of your strength. Takes some of your energy away. And that just means you're a good person. It means you're a good sister. So I think you and your husband pray about this. I think I would sit down. Are you guys in a good church?

2:04:29Not really. Like, we, yeah, no, not here. Okay. We've kind of started looking around. Yeah, I think I'd be looking around and, you know, find a good therapist, find a good pastor to sit down and unpack some of this with and put it on the calendar that the first of March were go time. Or something like that. I don't care if you decide it's the first of April, but it doesn't need to be 2028. Right? Yeah. Yeah. So I think that'll give you some peace. You're a very analytical, detailed person, and this drifting is not something that gives you peace. It's going to give you more peace to say, all right, I'm going to work on this hard, this grief thing, and I'm going to honor Rocco very intensely for this period of time, and then I'm coming out of the fog on this date.

2:05:25And if you give yourself that as a set desired future, a set goal, I think it's going to help you because of the way your brain works. Am I reading you right? I think so, yeah. Yeah. You're a good sister and you're a good husband, or you're a good wife and your husband is lucky. So you're going to be great. Okay? Yeah. And yeah, take a minute. Take a minute and breathe. You should. If you didn't, you'd be weird. Yeah, right. I mean, that'd be weird, wouldn't it? I mean, just to act like this didn't happen, that's going to blow up. and it did happen right before your wedding I mean come on right yeah I mean this is like this is a bad medicine right here so yeah sit down and talk to somebody kiddo set a date prayerfully with your husband I think you're going to be great she's going to be great that puts us hour of the Ramsey show and the books we'll be back with you before you know it in the meantime remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.