You Don’t Escape Debt by Waiting—You Escape by Acting

28:45Heartburn, a lot of heartburn. Heartburn, yeah, right? Yeah. Yeah, but the point is, it's a temporary situation, and it's the best path for you to become wealthy. Because your most powerful wealth building tool is your income, and you don't give it all to car companies and student loan companies. You get to keep it. Right. And that causes wealth building, and that's what I'm going to tell you to do. So I would be debt-free either by selling the Cadillac or not immediately, even if it caused my heart to burn, because keep in mind your heart's not going to burn for very long because with no payments and serious motivation called a little bit of fear, you're going to stack that cash real fast and you'll be right back where you are by Christmas and you'll be a whole 23 years old.

29:36Wow you got lots of time to be smart now. This is the Ramsey Show.

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31:36student loan debt is an epidemic and defaulting on debt makes you feel even worse but our question of the day sponsor, Y-Refi refinances defaulted private student loans and builds a custom loan based on your ability to pay. You'll have a payment you can afford with a low fixed interest rate you couldn't get anywhere else. So go to Y-Refi.com today slash Ramsey. That's the letter Y-R-E-F-Y.com slash Ramsey. Might not be in all states. Today's question comes from Kate in In Maryland, my daughter is a junior in high school and has no idea of what she wants to do when she graduates. My husband and I love the idea of her owning her own business, but neither my husband nor I have experience in this.

32:20We both wish we had made different career decisions that would have given us more independence. Where can we research with her to get a better understanding and vision for this option? Or would you still recommend college versus real-world experience? Okay, I'm going to put myself into this particular situation and say if this was my daughter, what would I do? And so because she's a junior, we would begin to identify areas of interest, not come up with a business idea. I think this could be very paralyzing for a youngster. It's paralyzing for a lot of people in their 30s and 40s because we know, Dave, from the data that 70 percent of Americans want to be self-employed, but only 6 percent are.

32:58So I'm speaking from data here. So what I would do with my daughter is we would begin to identify areas of interest. In other words, people that she wants to help, solutions she gets excited about, problems she wants to solve, and there's an industry. If there's a business, there's an industry. And so we want to get broad so that she gets some real interest and begins to see some areas of interest. At that point, we're going to shadow. I'm going to allow her to go have coffee, lunch with people that are in those industries or maybe run businesses in those industries. shadow at work if she can get shadow opportunities all of this to begin to to create a field of three or four of her most interesting options at that point then we start to have the discussion is college is a degree the best decision or is it getting right into the workforce and working in an industry and give you an example to help clarify this some more if this were a young man and by the way, it's not limited to young men, but let's say she decides she wants to own a business in the trades, okay?

34:07At that point, then I want her shadowing folks that are working in those trades and getting a real world experience. The good, the bad, the ugly, the smelly, everything. And at that point, we determine whether or not she's really interested. And then the path is going to be to go to work and hustle and learn on the job. And eventually, you work your way into spinning off on your own and starting your own business. So that's a hard question to answer in such a short amount of time without back and forth, but that would be the advice that I would give because that's what I would do. These young people need to see it, touch it, experience it, smell it.

34:44Yes. And then they can decide. Completely agree. Because, Kate, you did not say she has this extreme passion and apparent natural talent and bent towards x because you did not say that that would have led her towards a business the people that we've talked to that are 18 or 19 or 21 years old that have had success and they call this show and they are really killing it and we're all kind of aghast at how yeah how far ahead of this curve they are running their own thing they almost always had a natural gift towards something uh technology is not unusual for a 19 year old today to be something that they would go you know they've been screwing around writing code messing around building apps and all of a sudden they built an app and took off and around the business okay uh or you know whatever that's fine i mean that would be Michael Dell.

35:41That would be Bill Gates. Both quit college and Steve Jobs. All three. All three companies were formed by college dropouts. And so, but they were super nerds with their eye exactly on what they wanted to do. There was no question. Instead, you're asking a very generic thing. My husband and I always wish we were in business, so we wish our daughter would go into business, but none of us have a clue. Yeah. No, don't go in business. Business is too hard. That's correct. Don't put an 18-year-old, 20-year-old out there with no education to go into business doing that. No. If she thinks that in talking with her that she has got some entrepreneurial flair and wants to do a business someday, maybe in the future, a great, you know, just get a business degree.

36:31Get a degree in finance, a degree in marketing. You'll learn accounting. You'll learn statistics. You'll learn marketing. You'll learn strategic thought. I mean, you'll get some of these basic things in a good four-year degree. That's what I have. And I use a lot of those classes I took 40 years ago every day running Ramsey. You know, it's a$300 million company. It's a dadgum good thing I had a couple of accounting classes. Hello. You know, rather than just trying to figure that out with a high school accounting class. And so it's a good thing that I understand marketing at an academic level before I actually get neck deep in it and then try to figure out how it works out here in the real world too.

37:15So I would do that if she thinks she's going to go that direction, combined with Ken's advice of really go in there and study, study. Go visit these places. Quit talking about this stuff in the abstract.

37:30Here's what we know about entrepreneurs. Business is very hard. It is. And people that have never started a small business and run one have this romantic view. Yeah. But there's a lot of dirt under the fingernails, boys and girls. I mean, it's long hours. It's the hardest boss you'll ever work for in your life. That guy's a dadgum slave driver. Yeah. And to that point, the entrepreneurs that win are driven by deep, deep desire to solve a problem. Yep. And they come up with a solution. That's the business. It's a solution. and they're deeply passionate about it. That's what keeps them going because it is, you almost need that magnetic pull or else you're going to quit.

38:08Because in air quotes, I always wanted to work for myself. Yeah. You're not going to make it. No, no chance. It's too tough. You're going to get your butt run over in the middle of the street, man. I mean, you're just going to be roadkill. And it's just too, I mean, because you put up with too much, you shovel so much manure, it's unbelievable. There's a pony in there somewhere, but you got to shovel the manure. I mean, it's real. And I'm not complaining and I'm not whining. But I have a call for a certain thing. That's correct. And I've had two in my life. I mean, one on real estate and went broke and then one doing this.

38:42And I could do the real estate tomorrow and still be okay. But obviously God called us to this right here, and I'm happy with that. But, yeah, I wouldn't put up with the BS that nobody will. That's why we see business people quit all the time. uh it's why we see a chef who is good at cooking and nothing else has a failed restaurant that's why restaurants have the highest failure rate of almost any stinking business category because they think somebody thinks because they can cook or like cooking for their friends that that makes them a restaurant owner no you got to hire and fire people all day long restaurant has a 325 turnover ratio in a year it means you have to hire three people to fill that one position during that year that's so you're in the hiring business you're in the firing business you're in the food sourcing inventory there's all this stuff that goes with running a business it's not cooking that's right and and that's that it blows a chef's mind and they they go oh god i wish i'd never yeah that's right we all wish you'd never but yeah that is a great actual example of do i want to run a business that serves food or i do do i just want to cook food two very different paths by the way both honorable but there is a big distinction between the two and that's the key you know it's even like when we're talking with entree leaders these small businesses and they're getting ready to promote their best salesperson to be sales manager it's two different skills that's exactly right you're managing sales people is different than making sales so one of sometimes one of the worst things you can do is take your your best seller and turn them into a sales manager because they don't have that skill set they're good at selling they're not good at managing sales and don't forget they may not enjoy it they may enjoy the service they may hate it they enjoy the service of the customer they don't enjoy the service of leading a team of people again you lead a bunch of sales people it's like running a beauty parlor it's a drama two very different job descriptions so you know you need to get in there what it is so that's it's a great question kate and we'll have the team send out.

40:45I love the student assessment would be great for them. Okay, perfect. We've actually got that and that's a young person can take that and get a pretty good idea of what a current snapshot of what a professional job description of purpose would look like for them. And that can be a business. That's right. I'm not completely killing that, but make sure you understand that, you know, business is not romantic. This is the Ramsey Show.

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42:58Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union Studio. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host, Ken Coleman. and Ramsey, personality, number one bestselling author, is my co-host today. Chris is in Wyoming. Hi, Chris. How are you? Good. Yourself? Better than I deserve. What's up? I just wanted to give you guys a call. I mean, kind of going through some struggles with debt, and I got fired from my job on Wednesday. Whoa. That sucks. What happened? Well, they gave me an evaluation, and I guess I didn't score high enough. And I think they fired me because of my hearing issues, because I was born partially deaf.

43:46And so I think that's part of the reason why they fired me, because I couldn't understand things. Yeah, you're going to have to speak directly into your phone, sir. You got muffled on me there. But you had trouble understanding things? What was the job? Yeah, I was working at a casino. I was doing surveillance, and they just am kind of looking at cameras. I'm answering phones, and I think I just wasn't understanding a lot of stuff that I was being told. And they didn't tell me they fired me because of my hearing issues, but I kind of think that's what it was. Well, and the reason I'm asking this follow-up is because this is going to inform maybe some advice we give you going forward.

44:25When they went through the evaluation, whether or not they told you that or not, did you agree that you weren't meeting their evaluation points? Yeah, I do. Listen, you're not speaking directly into your phone again, honey. You don't have to do that. It's muffled. Yeah, I do agree that I was having a hard time understanding the tasks that they were giving me. Okay. Okay. And so your biggest crisis is you're unemployed. Yeah. I'm unemployed, and my wife can't work because she tore her femur back when she was in the military, and she's using two canes, and she hasn't worked for so long. And so it's just been hard to try to take care of her, myself, and our three kids.

45:19And are you aware of are you aware of what kind of work that you can do where the hearing is not going to be that big of an issue? For like 15, 20, 15 to 20 plus years, I was doing like physical work, like warehouse type work, because it really didn't involve a whole lot of I mean, I started to hear things, but it wasn't as bad as, you know, having to like I wouldn't have to like answer phones or any type of thing like that. And so I've been trying to get back into that again. And with winter hours coming up, it's just kind of been more harder to get into that again. How did you lose your hearing?

45:59I was born. I was born. It was genetic. Okay. Do you have hearing aids? Yeah, I do. I went through the Wyoming workforce. But they're not working? They were working. They're working. They've been a big help. But even after I got the hearing aids with the casino, I was still having a hard time. So I try to do everything the best I can, and I seem to still have a hard time hearing. Well, the casino is a very noisy place, and even with hearing aids, that can be a problem. I'm worried about your location. It seems when you said winter hours that you have limited opportunities due to where you are.

46:43Is that what I'm understanding? Yeah. I mean, I'm in here in Cheyenne, and usually when winter starts coming up, that's when they kind of, a lot of places, you know, cut back hours because they're fully staffed and it's harder to get into places. Sure. How much money do you need to make? What's the bottom line that would just take care of you guys, just your basic expenses? What do you need? um i mean my my rent um i mean it's my rent my electric um i mean i don't have to worry about like gas or anything give me a number do you got a number a monthly number that you need to live um and in all honesty i mean i honestly don't know um can't really figure out a number um And it's usually about, I think, like$3 ,000 a month.

47:41That's usually where all my bills are at because I got two vehicles, and then my kids taking care of the expenses for them too and the food and all that stuff. Do you have two car payments? Yeah, I have two car payments. I have my truck payment, which is$740, and then my car payment is$360. I don't know. What in the world planet you're on that you think you can afford a$700 truck payment? When I was working with Walmart, I got fired from them the same year in January. Why did you get fired from Walmart? Because of my attendance, because of the wife's medical issues with her leg, and then my mental health.

48:29I was leaving a lot, and I was calling off a lot because of my mental health, and I ended up, after I got fired, I ended up in a mental health hospital. What's the nature of your mental health problem? Well, when my daughter was born, she... No, your mental health problem. What's the nature of your mental health problem? I'm depressed. Okay, all right. And it all really started. Is your wife on military disability? um no she she's been trying to fight with the va for several years and are you on any kind of disability uh no i'm not um i i try to get on social security and they they they denied me because i i finally got the job at the casino and they denied me because uh yeah i was um making too much and so i that would that would be true that would be obvious yeah okay so what we've got to do is we got to figure out a career where you can make some basic income and son you got to sell your truck a 780 truck in this picture that you have painted for the last few minutes is insanity it's nuts so you got to get rid of the 780 payment and you guys could go down to one car for that matter your wife doesn't work she's on two canes i don't think she needs to be driving a lot But so you got and then you're going to have to pick up work doing a lot of other stuff until you can land something that's stable.

49:59Any good suggestions, Ken? Well, the reason I went that direction of what have you done or what kind of work is because you're going to have to get back into that space. And what I heard was a lot of limitations. But right now you can't accept limitations. I understand depression is real. That's a real thing. I get it. But you're going to have to fight through that because you are the person that this entire household is relying on. So, yeah, manufacturing, warehouse work. I'm showing up and I'm going to go back to Walmart and I'm going to say, hey, here's what happened to me. I'm going to power through it.

50:35I mean, anything and everything right now, two and three jobs. You have got to get enough money that maybe seen, not maybe, I'd see a therapist. I'd scrape enough money together where you get some help. because a professional can help you with some tools to power through the depression. And this is desperation time. Yeah. I'm sorry you're facing all this. So sorry. I'm 100 % sure we've got to get your income up, and I'm 100 % sure you need to sell your truck. And when you do those two things, you create a sustainable situation mathematically, and that gives you the opportunity to work through the emotional struggles that you got.

51:13so keep it up dude keep pushing keep fighting you can do it

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52:48Thank you for joining us, America. We're glad you are here. Ken Coleman, Ramsey Personality, number one bestselling author of the book Paycheck to Purpose, and his new work, discovering or finding the work you're wired to do, which comes with the Get Clear assessment to help you figure out what your strengths are and where you need to head with your whole career and money-making endeavors. It's a great thing. It's just hit a bunch of bestseller things this week, as a matter of fact. Very cool. Hey, the average interest rate for a 15-year mortgage dropped from 6 to 5.6 this week. And the average this week, I'm sorry, fell to 5.15, the lowest we've seen since February of 23.

53:33three. So almost 20 some odd months now since we've seen an interest rate that low. So if you purchase a$423 ,000 house with a 20 % down payment on a 15 year, the interest rate change is the difference now of about three,$4 ,000 a year is what it would save you. So yeah, if you're financially ready, if you're out of debt, you have your down payment ready and you have your emergency fund in place. We're huge on the real estate market, and this is the time to do it. It's also a great time to sell because there's a shortage of inventory. So it's kind of a weird market in that way, but you need a good, strong real estate agent in your corner that knows what the flip they're doing.

54:16High protein, high octane. So go to RamseySolutions.com slash agent, and you can find the real estate agent that's Ramsey trusted that we have vetted in your area. So there we go open phones at 888-825-5225 Nicole is in Jacksonville hi Nicole how are you good how are you better than I deserve what's up okay so um me and my husband are about to bring a baby into the world in January next year and congratulations thank you he's had this credit card with his mom that he's been having for like the past basically year and a half. But she basically has like joint ownership of his like account and stuff like that because he's in the military.

55:09So like when he first got in, he was like, oh, well, you're going to oversee everything. Just make sure like my bills are paid and stuff like that. But she opened up her credit card and she's ran up like$14 ,000 since then. and um every time i try to talk to him about it like hey like what's going on with this like um you know is she gonna take care of it now that we're bringing a baby into the world i'm concerned and like every time she'll ask him about it like she completely like it's angry or upset and cries because she has lupus and she has like a lot of medical bills too so So we're not really sure how to ask.

55:49How long have you been married? We've been married for a year and a half. Mm-hmm. Okay. And what does he make? So pretty fresh. What does he make and what do you make? He makes like$55 ,000 a year. Mm-hmm. And me, I'm a student, so I'm still in school and everything, so I work part-time. How old are you two? How old are you two? I'm 22, and he's 23.

56:20Here's the thing. Here's the thing. Stop. You don't have a mother-in-law problem. You have a husband problem. Okay? So hubby has got to decide now that there's a new woman in his life that's not his mother. when you the the old in the old days people would say things like when you get married you leave your parents and cleave to your spouse leave and cleave we called it okay and there's a boundary drawn there's a new household has been established a year and a half ago now it has a baby entering it okay and we're not going to blame any of this on the baby we're going to blame all of this on your husband, the day you all got married, it was his job as a man to separate all of his accounts from his mother.

57:15This is very boyish, not manly behavior that he's engaging in. And so if I'm in your shoes, I'm going to sit down very calmly, and I don't care if his mom cries, I'm sorry, and I don't care. I'm sorry she has lupus, but the reason she's crying is because she's ashamed and because it works on her little boy. So we're going to have to help your husband run down to Walmart and pick up a backbone. They're on aisle three, and then he's going to walk in there very calmly and gently and say, Mom, now that I'm married and I have my own family, we're not going to have any more joint accounts. so everything is being closed today and you're going to reopen your own accounts mom and you need to pay this fourteen thousand dollars you ran up on this credit card

58:11Okay? And if she doesn't, you'll have to because it's got your husband's name on it. This is a mistake that he has made. And it may cost him and you$14 ,000 because I got a feeling this woman's not going to pay this. Don't you? Yeah. Yeah. And you're not to be involved at all. You'll become the wicked daughter-in-law. It'll be all your fault because this woman is a travel agent for guilt trips. Okay. Yeah, every time I, like, try to, like, talk to her about it. Nope, nope, nope. No, don't you ever say a word to her about this again. But your husband, he needs to throw his shoulders back and become a man.

58:59Today. Today. This is weak and fearful behavior. He needs to become courageous, bold, gentle with his mom. There's no reason to be mean to her. He's the one entered into this arrangement. but it does need to be very thorough and complete immediately. It's absurd that a man that is married and has a baby on the way has joint accounts with his mommy. That's ridiculous, okay? You can play this back for him if you want. He needs to square his shoulders and walk in there. I don't want him to be unkind to his mom, but it was his duty the week before you got married to separate everything. When my kids were getting married, we sat down two weeks before.

59:54I transferred every single mutual fund that was theirs, every single checking account or piece of savings that was theirs, completely out of our name. And if they went and did something stupid with it the next day, that's on them because they're now what's known as grown-up adults. And so it's not my job anymore to manage them. They are now free agents. They're grown people. And you don't even have to get married to do that, but that happened to be when we made sure that everything was final because I did not want to be interfering with my daughter's-in-law, son's-in-law, just like Nicole's situation.

1:00:33This is happening more and more. Yeah, the emotional umbilical cord needs to be cut. And this is the reason why is because the lupus, she's my mom, she did this, she's done that. And you cannot think rationally when you were thinking emotionally. You cannot have a rational thought at the same time that you have an emotional thought. and this tie together he's never going to act rational until the clear cut has happened and i really would recommend that he watch this so that he realizes you're not the bad person and and you don't be pissed if somebody be pissed at me it's like a spiritual gift i have i'm fine with that yeah cut the cord there's entire reddit pages devoted to doing that so you can and comment sections of everything by the way this is only going to get worse i want the young man every every day it's going to get worse every day this goes on and we're not even going to blame this on the baby oh no not the baby this is something should have been done before there was a baby well i'll tell you it's the big baby i'm blaming it on the big baby not the baby in the womb the baby who has yet to mature yeah uh and by the way mom enabled this so there's enough blame to go enable it she manipulated it she wanted it she likes this he was a mama's boy to go to the military and say mom pay my bills yep yep i'm not blaming that all on him yep we got to let these kids fly, folks.

1:01:52Kick them out of the nest. That's what the birds do.

1:01:58This is a national problem to your point. It's a real problem. This is the Ramsey Show.

1:02:34I love entrepreneurs. Don't forget, guys, I started my company on a card table myself. So I know what it's like to have people counting on you, your team, your family, not to mention your customers. And when you're the one signing the paychecks, you can't afford to fly blind. But I'll be honest, early on, one thing that nearly sunk us was wasting time with spreadsheets that didn't add up because business units didn't talk to each other. I finally told my team, just fix it. And they did. We got NetSuite. That was years ago, and we've never looked back. See, NetSuite isn't just for tech giants. It's built for growing businesses like yours.

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1:04:07Ken Coleman, Ramsey Personality, is my co-host today. Thank you for joining us, America. Donnell is with us in Salt Lake City. Hi, Donnell. How are you? I'm good, thank you. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? I have a little dilemma that we're trying to figure out what we need to do. I have a 2012 Hyundai Elantra, and it's got over 200 ,000 miles on it. Um, in around the end of October, I was backing up out of a parking spot and a guy behind me backed into my car and it didn't ruin my car. So I couldn't drive it, but his insurance totaled my car. And so now, yeah, I mean, you're driving a hoopty and you're getting a check.

1:04:57yeah I yeah I can get a check for it for sure they will I can get 37 45 and keep it and I'll have to get a salvage tile no or you don't want it 45 38 no you take the full pay give them the car go get your car okay if the car was in good shape if the car was in good shape if the car was in good shape it's 200 ,000 mile 2012 elantra what's it actually worth have you looked it up yeah it's it's probably under five well that's what they're giving is under five yeah yeah i want you to make sure that what they're giving you is the actual value of the car well the 45 is what they would give me and that's what i know honey they're going to give you the value of the car it's the law okay they may not have understood that yet you may have to help them with that yeah but they're supposed to give you the value of the car they got the guy tore your car up so um didn't take much to total this car but it's okay cool i'm glad so i want you guys uh you said we are you married uh-huh okay you guys jump on the computer before you accept the offer and find out from kelly blue book what the what the uh retail value of that car is and enter it with 200 ,000 miles, no damage, and the attributes of that car, the accessories it has and so forth, and then look on stuff like Trader.com and find some that are for sale that look similar in mileage.

1:06:28And if you find out that car is worth$5 ,200, you call this insurance company up and say, you need to pay me$5 ,200, and here's the appraisal from Kelly Blue Book, and here's three cars on trader.com that look the same, and all these things say 5 ,200, not 4 ,500, and the guy will go, okay. All right. Who's the insurance company? Bear River Mutual. What? Say it again. Yeah, they're the ones. Say it again. Bear River. That's the actual insurance company, not they wrote the policy. Do what? Bear River Mutual. Okay, I just don't know that one. Okay. All right. Well, because sometimes I know the reputation.

1:07:13Like if it's State Farm, you can pretty much be assured they're trying to screw you. Okay? Yeah. It's like their modus operandi. Okay? I've been hit by State Farm people twice, and it's been a problem both times. Okay? They're just a pain in the butt. And see, it cost them a lot because I just said that. So, but anyway, the, anyway, so yeah, just, just verify that the actual cost value of the car, I'm not trying to rip them off. I want them to pay you what you're due. That's all. Yeah. It's an honest transaction. Even with the ding in it? I'm sorry? I mean, with the ding in the car? No, darling.

1:07:50There wasn't a ding in the car before he hit it. Oh, okay. Before he hit it, what was the car worth? Yeah. Okay. All right. Because that's what they owe you. That's the market value of the car. Because you've got to take the cash and go buy that exact car on Trader.com from somebody else. That's what you're going to have to pay for it. Yeah. That's what they should give you. They should replace your car. No, you don't keep your car. Okay. My other question for you then is... This car was almost dead before this guy put a bullet in it. Let it die. Yeah. It's true. It's true. Okay. So I have listened to you for years, and I just get sick to my stomach now thinking about even taking a loan out on a vehicle.

1:08:33Well, don't. Buy a$5 ,000 car. We have money put aside. Pardon? Buy a$5 ,000 car. Okay. You have$5 ,000. You were driving a$5 ,000 car before this happened. True. So it was perfectly good with your life, or good enough for now. How much money do you have set aside, and is that earmarked for something else, or was it for a car replacement? It's to go toward the car replacement. How much do you got? We have about$7 ,000. $7 ,000? That's your car fund. Yep. Okay, well, then you can buy a$12 ,000 car. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. All right. My husband wants me to have a car that he knows we can depend on, and he's like...

1:09:19Man, man, man, man, man. Where was this husband before you got hit in the parking lot? He was sitting next to me. I know. I know, but you see what I'm saying. He wasn't whining about you having something that was dependable when you were driving this$5 ,000 Hooptie. You were saving up to get out of the Hooptie. Now you sold the Hooptie. You just sold it to an insurance company. Yep, you're right. A lot of$12 ,000 cars that you can rely on. Excellent vehicles for$12 ,000. Excellent. A car that'll do double backflips. You can get great cars for$12 ,000. Yes. Okay. The best value in the market is$10 ,000 to$15 ,000.

1:09:56It's the best buy in the car market. You get the most bang for your buck. And you can get a great vehicle for that. That'll last you for a long time. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. There's no reason for you to go in debt, hon. It's just it was an event. Thank God nobody was hurt. It's a little parking lot ding. And it's just sad that your car, the parking lot ding. I never heard anybody get totaled in the Kroger parking lot. But there you go. So, bump, you're totaled. I mean, I was going to say, that was quite an incident. He must have been on his way to the game with the wings and the chips and salsa.

1:10:32He was in a hurry. Something going on. Amber's in Spokane. Amber, welcome to the Ramsey Show. Thank you. I just have a quick question, actually two-part question. I have an 18-year-old son. He's still in high school. He will be 19 next year graduating. and he is planning on opening his own business. Doing what? With his landscaping, with his own money. Good. He's very smart with money. He doesn't have any debt. He won't get a credit card. He only uses what he has. Mm-hmm. But I was trying to explain to him the other day that he can do it with a zero credit score. And he and I am also confused a little bit too, but I know it's possible.

1:11:22So he doesn't want to take out any loans. Then he doesn't need a credit score. Why do you need a credit score? I think he's more worried about if something comes up where he has to... Borrow money. Borrow to, yeah, if he has to get a bigger machine or... Well, that already is going to come up. 100 % of the people that buy machines buy too many of them. Well, he has a plan to buy used. And cash. And if something comes up, he'll buy used and cash. He does not need a credit score. Do not use debt as your backstop in case of emergencies in business because you will live in debt the rest of your life.

1:12:07Because 100 % of, there's three rules in business. It takes twice as long as you think. It costs twice as much as you think. And you're not the exception. Those are the three rules of business. And the nice thing is that he understands all three of those rules. Then he doesn't need a credit score. Okay. The other question I have is how I've been trying to get him to listen to your show or read your book. And he's 18. I'll give him that because he's still in that mentality stage where he's 18. and is there something, I don't want to push too hard so that he doesn't do it all together, but is there, I know you have books and programs and stuff like that, but I've already bought those and he wasn't interested in it.

1:13:00Is it something that may come along later on when he's going through? I guess. I mean, the only thing I can tell you is the only good I've ever been able to do with my kids once they turned 18 and beyond was I tried to try my best to not use my dad voice because once I do they quit listening I have to use my persuasive uncle voice like I'm their uncle that loves them and has no power because I am that person that has no power once they're 18. So you've been using your mom voice you need to listen to Dave that won't work he won't he turned that off immediately use your friend voice and maybe maybe he'll pick it up probably not but Maybe he will.

1:13:40This is the Ramsey Show.

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1:15:17hey guys we could use your help it helps us a bunch and we know you're doing it because we're seeing the numbers are incredible if you subscribe to the show on the platform that you're doing or follow the show on the platform that you're listening or watching, whether it's YouTube or Spotify or, uh, you know, Apple podcast, Google play, whatever it is, just click follow or subscribe. It makes a big difference. Also share the show. Some of these things have a share button where you can share it. Maybe you're just listening on talk radio. Tell people where you're listening. You know, I'm in Phoenix.

1:15:52I listen on KTAR, you know, and, uh, and the Ramsey shows on there. It's changed my life. Tell people, tell people when you read a good book, tell people when you see a good movie um tell people when you hear a good show a good podcast a good youtube show whatever it is spread the word and we know you're doing it because the our numbers are are up uh astronomically and we appreciate it but when you do all that it also affects all of those platforms algorithms and the way people are behaving on there affects whether they push the show out forward in front of people that don't even know they're searching for it and uh so it it changes everything when you do that guys it's a big deal thank you very very much even the five-star reviews those help a bunch too thank you william is with us in providence rhode island hi william how are you hey guys i'm great thanks for uh taking my call i appreciate it sure how can we help so i'm in the military um and i just got married two months ago congratulations you all about four months ago thanks man i appreciate it i discovered you guys four months ago life has been excellent So we're in the process of moving, and we're paying off my wife's student loan debt, about$28 ,000.

1:17:04And we figure out we're going to be moving to Hawaii in March. Looking at housing prices over there, it's going to be pretty insane, at least to do like first month's rent, security deposit, everything like that. So I'm looking at your advice on how to approach that, taking a pause at Baby Step 2, and how to move forward there. it's not really a pause on baby step two it's just a pause on the whole thing because you've got a uh you know something staring you're staring you know you're staring at this thing in front of you and you've got to deal with it right and so you know what i would do is put a detailed number on the march move stop everything and pile up that number because it's coming it's not if it's just oh yeah it's not there's no question about the probability of it And then when you've got that number, then push play, set that number to the side, push play, and then start working it again.

1:18:01Okay. Yeah, that's exactly how you do it. So which branch are you in? I'm in the Navy. Okay. Yeah. Well, thank you for your service, sir. We appreciate you guys. Well, I appreciate you guys. And how old are you two? 28. My wife is 26. Perfect. Okay. Have you been through Financial Peace University yet? No, sir, we've been just kind of listening to the show and making a go at it. We're going to give that to you as a belated wedding gift. Two months into my wedding, two months into my marriage, I wish somebody had shown me this stuff. My life would have been completely different in a good way. So, yeah, and I've got a pretty good life.

1:18:44So anyway, hang on. Christian's going to pick up. We'll get you signed up for Financial Peace University because Hawaii is expensive. Yeah, you need to. And that's the truth. Dave, I've got to ask a quick question because this is, I'm curious to know your take on this. If I was in this situation, and he's in the military, so he may not be able to do anything outside of his military service. But if his wife is not working outside of the home, or even if she is, I'm the kind of guy that if I were in that position in the baby steps, certainly in baby step two, and I had an expense like that that was coming and we knew it was going to be a chunk.

1:19:13So let's just say it was, I'll make this up for example purpose. I had to come up with$5 ,000 for something in March. I'm the kind of guy that's going to go crazy trying to make extra money and fund that$5 ,000 above and beyond what I'm doing out of my normal budget towards the baby steps. Does that bother you? That's an okay thing. The thing is it works exactly the same way if you just push stop. That's true. And then go crazy and pile it up that much faster. But I'm the guy who hates losing the progress. But if you pile it up twice as fast because you're not staying in play mode, you push pause, then boom, you're back at it, and mathematically you'll end up in about the same place.

1:20:01But you're right, it does light a fire under you to get it done quick. Jack is in Los Angeles. Hey, Jack, how are you? I'm good. How are you doing? Better than I deserve. What's up? My fiance and I are both 25 years old. We're getting married two months from now. And we're, of course, looking to combine finances. Not sure the best way to go about it on a couple fronts. One, should we be waiting until we're married? Two, we both do have credit cards. We both, as of last month, are debt free, but we're wondering, should we be keeping them? Should we get rid of them? We're worried about, you know, canceling them, impacting our credit scores as we look to buy a house.

1:20:46So hoping to get your advice on all of that. Okay. You don't combine finances until you're married. Okay. And after you're married, then, yes, you combine them because the preacher will say, and now you are one. And that's what that means. Until then, you've got all kinds of issues when you combine things that can happen. If something terrible happened before the wedding, you get yourself into a mess. So we just wait until then. As far as keeping your credit cards open, the best thing I know to do is cut them up and close everything and have zero balances. And if you have no active accounts going, it takes about six months for your credit score to just disappear.

1:21:33What you don't want is a medium credit score. You either want a very high one or a no credit score. when you're going for a mortgage. No credit score sets you up for manual underwriting with someone like Churchill Mortgage, our team that we've endorsed for mortgages for almost 30 years now, and they can help you do a manual underwriting with zero credit score. But you don't want to be in no man's land in the middle, and that's what will happen if you keep a bunch of stuff open with zero balances because the FICO algorithm is built to where it wants you to be in debt. to drive an 800 credit score you have to get in debt and stay in debt and pay it regularly I pay my credit cards off every month or I don't use them at all and they're open will damage your credit score so will closing them will damage your credit score but closing them is the path to get to zero and that's where I would recommend you go is to zero and it's okay to not buy a house immediately by the way it's going to take about six months for this to happen so six months six months from the time you're married you both close all accounts you have zero balances zero activity of any kind on anything that's reporting to FICO you will disappear you'll fall off the grid which is what you're trying to do here and um you know that's the goal and we recommend in general young couples getting married that they wait a year to buy a house it takes about a year of marriage to know how close to your mother-in-law to buy you got to get to know each other okay and you've been married 20 minutes, you're going to buy a different house then than you will when you've been married 20 months.

1:23:18It's a different property you're going to sign up for. And so just take your time. You've got the rest of your life. You're going to be okay. I don't want you to take 10 years, but you can take a few months. And during that time, you have the opportunity for the credit score to go away. Yeah, I'm thinking back to when Stacy and I got married and this whole question, and we were walking through premarital counseling. Both of our dads were pastors, and so they were really driving home the point that you made, keep everything separate, separate, of course. But it was us trying to clean everything up, and Stacey had some debt, and we worked really hard to help her, and she went after it.

1:23:58And to enter into marriage with, and we had a little debt. I had a little bit of student loans left, and she had a little bit left, and then we knocked them out in that first couple years. But it was such a big deal for us to, in the first 12 months, just learn how each other handled money. You know what I mean? How you handle life. There's that too. But it's like to make a big purchase decision like that and strap yourself into a mortgage like that without kind of, as you said, experiencing marriage and the way we viewed money. That first 12 months for us was really eye-opening. And we had to learn how to get on the same page.

1:24:32Yeah. It was for my wife, Sharon. She realized she'd made a huge mistake. Well, Stacey as well. Poor woman. They have the patience of Joe. Thought she married Sir Galahad. Turns out it was Goober. Right. I resemble that. This is The Ramsey Show.

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1:26:27Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio with Ken Coleman, my number one best-selling author and host of The Front Row Seat. As my co-host, I'm Dave Ramsey. Ryan is in Nashville. Hey, Ryan, how are you? Good, Dave, how are you doing? Better than I deserve. What's up? Well, I had a question about retirement and 401ks. I am new into a Roth IRA. I'll be 50 next year, and I can only contribute so much to that. And on my wife's 401k, we're maxing out what she can do a year on that. And then there's a rollover IRA from previous employment that we have. So we've got the three things working for us, but I can only contribute, you know, just that$7 ,000 a year.

1:27:15And I would just like to know what you think other ways for me to try to make my money work for me down the road so I can have more retirement. Yeah, you can bump it to$8 ,000 at$50 ,000, and you can also do a spousal Roth for your wife as well. Are you doing both of those? So we can do that if she has a 401k plus she has a rollover IRA? Yes. What's that called? I'm sorry? Just a Roth IRA. She can just do a Roth. She can do one too. She can do a Roth. Yep. Even if she's not working, she could do one, but she's working in this case. So make sure. Is her 401k a Roth? No, I don't believe. Well, yes, it is.

1:27:54It is. Okay. All right. Because if they match, the portion they match is not Roth, but make sure it's not traditional. Is the rollover IRA, has it been converted to Roth? I don't think it's been converted. It's just a rollover. Okay. If you convert it, it'll make the taxes on the amount come due. What's the amount in there? The amount on the rollover currently is probably about 75. Okay. So you would have about$15 ,000 or$20 ,000 in taxes, probably 15. So if you've got an extra 15 to invest in retirement, I would roll that to a Roth and pay that 15 in taxes and call that investing. Here's why.

1:28:32Because from this point forward, it will grow completely tax-free. Okay. So paying those taxes now is like investing into a retirement. So if you're looking for more money to throw at something, the first thing is you bump them to eight. You do a spousal. Make sure her 401K is Roth if it's not already. and then take that rollover and talk to your tax person, figure out what your taxes are going to be before you do it. Make sure you've got that much in extra cash to pay your tax bill next year when April rolls around because you're going to have an extra whatever it is, $15 ,000 or so on that, and then roll that$75 ,000.

1:29:12Because that$75 ,000 in seven years will be$150 ,000, and in seven more years it will be$300 ,000, and in seven more years it will be$600 ,000. and all of that will be tax-free if it's Roth. It won't be the way it is now. It's going to grow and all of it be taxable at ordinary income. So you do want to move that at some point. But if you're looking for extra ways to put money towards retirement, that's the ways you can do it. Matt's in Tennessee. Hey, Matt, how are you? I'm doing great, guys. I'm so excited to be on the show. Thanks for taking my call. My pleasure. How can we help? well my wife and i have been weighing the decision of making her a stay-at-home mom and i just want to make sure we're not letting emotion blind us from making a uh a bad decision financially cool good for you how many babies you got uh we have two uh they're both under three awesome you got your hands full never a quiet moment at your house yes okay so um yeah that's great um i just kept the grandbabies last week that sharon and i did that are that age and so i know what i'm talking about for just a moment there but i can hand them back when they're broke you can't so um this one's got something wrong with it you don't need to work on this one yeah but the uh anyway the uh what does she make?

1:30:36Um, she makes 95 gross. And what do you make? I make, um, I'll be on track to make, uh, over one 50. Okay, cool. Um, if you want to be really, really sure, uh, an easy way to do it would be just live on your check for three months and bank hers. Yes, sir. We've, we've been doing that. Oh, you have. Okay. I mean, minus daycare. If you got daycare, you could take daycare out of hers, but because you won't have that. Yes. But if you just practice, so you've already, you've already proven to yourself, you can do this. I guess so. But, um, I mean, I guess we're just a little nervous to take that leap of faith.

1:31:17Um, you know, it's not a leap of faith. You've proven it. It's a step. It's a step. It's not a leap. Yes, sir. How much margin do you have? A leap is I have no idea and I've never even looked at the math. That's a leap. this is true. Yeah. So you're done great, man. So what does she do for a living? She's a nurse auditor for Humana. Is she a nurse by trade? Yes, sir. Okay. I think Ken and I would both recommend that she do enough of something to keep her certs alive while she's at home. Yeah. We, we've both talked about that as well. We want to keep her, um, her license up to date. Absolutely.

1:32:00Absolutely. And you'll be amazed at what she could pick up as just little side things here or there that make a lot of money. She's got like the perfect career to do what you're talking about doing. I couldn't agree more. I mean, she could pick up. If y 'all got in a pinch or something, she could pick up weekends in the ER and make almost as much as she's making now. This is true. Be very uncomfortable, and I'm not recommending doing that. You don't have to because you've already proven we can live on your income. So, yeah, just do it, man. Do it. This is why you manage money, to get to live the life you want to live.

1:32:37And you guys want her to be home, and she's doing nothing wrong and everything right by doing that. Yeah, my question is, as Dave was walking you through this, you still seemed unsure. Is that because you're worried about some big giant expense coming out of nowhere from the giant in the sky, or you are too tight on just your income? No, that's a good question. We're not too tight on my income. What makes me nervous, Ken, is I started this job in June, and it's a phenomenal job. It provides very well. It's given us a great financial bump. So I guess it just makes me nervous to solely rely on my job, being in it for such a short period of time.

1:33:29What do you do? I'm in medical sales. Oh, dude. You can land backwards on your head and make$150 in that in the next job. If these people lose their minds, you can get another job doing this. Once you've done medical sales, you're so qualified, it's unbelievable. you both have selected excellent careers you'll be making 250 in three years dude yes sir uh if everything goes well and i'm and i stay on plan i should i should track to make over 200 yeah absolutely well the good thing coming out of a decision like this is you're going to be extra motivated and i appreciate you sharing the fear and i i didn't need to know i wanted you to hear yourself say it and so what you need to do now is go okay if this makes me a little nervous.

1:34:16Is there any evidence that it should make me nervous? And in this case, the answer is no. And then to Dave's point, you can crush it, man. So go crush it. And here's the other thing. You guys can decide, okay, we're going to stack up a little extra money. Oh, just a little rest easy money. No, we're not saying you have to do that, but you can to kind of ease yourself into this. You guys get to decide how and when you make this transition. And everything goes sideways. She walks down there and picks up a nursing job. I mean, if you lost your job, she picks up a nursing job, y 'all can eat. It's okay.

1:34:49It's not like it's permanent. You keep those certs, though. Keep everything up to date.

1:35:23ken coleman ramsey personality is my co-host today he's the number one best-selling author and host of the ken coleman show on the ramsey networks and one of his best-selling books is find the work you're wired to do it's his latest bestseller uh it included in it is the uh get clear career assessment that we've sold almost 100 ,000 of, and it goes with the book for free. So not only do you get the assessment, you get the book to teach you how to read the assessment and what to take away from it. So be sure and pick that up at RamseySolutions.com. Jack is in New York. Hi, Jack. Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

1:36:02Well, thank you very much, Dave. How are you today? Better than I deserve. What's up? Well, I'm at the age now, mid-50s, to where you want to get to be conservative with your investments for retirement. However, I don't have a retirement because of life choices that I've had to make throughout the years. So now that I'm finally in a financial position to where I can start making investments, I'm afraid to make liberal investments, to make money, to actually have a retirement, because I'm at that age to be conservative. So I really don't know what to do. Well, let me help you with this. You're not at the age to be conservative.

1:36:47I don't know who told you that, but they were wrong. Well, I don't have that many years left to live. You have plenty of time. You're only 50.

1:36:58Okay. I'm not conservatively investing, and I'm 63. So I'm investing in good growth stock mutual funds that are growing like a weed, and you need to be. You're broke. Well, I'm not broke, but I have no retirement whatsoever. Well, I mean, how much do you have? How much money do you have? I got about$20 ,000 in savings. Okay. Well, you're broke. I mean for 50 years old going into retirement that would scare the crap out of me you need like 250 right moving on and so I'm not trying to scare you I don't want you to panic but you do need to get with it um as you said and you recognize that that's why you called so um what I would do is this I the thing I have figured out is there's two things that we are afraid of and fear is a positive thing in these situations.

1:37:56Number one thing we're afraid of is something we don't understand. So the first time you sat behind the wheel of a car, I distinctly remember I was 12 and dad said move the car around back. I left no gravel in the driveway. No one told me you weren't supposed to press down on the accelerator all the way to the floor. And so I didn't because I didn't know what I was doing. So driving a car, I didn't know how to do it. I was afraid and I was really afraid after I screwed it up, right? But now we all have been driving cars for decades and we drive and don't think anything about it. It's like muscle memory.

1:38:33So you learn how to do the thing and you're no longer afraid of it. The second thing you're afraid of is something that will legitimately hurt you standing in the middle of the interstate. You should be afraid an 18-wheeler is going to turn you into a bug, right? And so, yeah, that's a, you know, a bear is standing in front of you, you should be afraid. That's a good thing. But the other is just you're afraid because you don't know how. And that's the investing thing. That's wisdom, but it's something that can be overcome. I don't want to overcome my fear of bears. They will eat you. But I do want to overcome my fear of things I don't understand that can help me.

1:39:08And the fear goes away with knowledge. So sit down with a good SmartVestor pro, Click that at Ramsey Solutions and let the guys that we recommend begin to teach you and gradually start to understand. And as your confidence builds, then you increase – you'll easily increase the amount of money you start pouring into retirement-type investments. And you won't have to worry about the whole idea of conservative versus whatever, bullcrap, something you read on the Internet, right? Yeah. I completely understand that. That's absolutely true. Ken? Yeah, I was just going to echo that, that right now you have no idea what you don't know and that it just paralyzes you.

1:39:52And so I think the quicker you can get seated with smart investor pros, interview several, figure out the one that you've got the best chemistry with, there's that teacher relationship going on, and you can make up some ground pretty quick, but you've got to be aggressive. And I would say, Dave, beyond just the mindset of aggressive, I'd be doing some things if I were him to make some extra money and try to catch up. Where can I make an additional 10 grand, an additional 15 to 25? So you can play catch up and start stacking some money. When you begin to see that momentum, by the way, that gets really, really exciting and you start doing more of that.

1:40:28A lot of people think that they got to have a side hustle just to pay off debt or just pay the bills. In this case, when someone is that age, to the extent that you can do some extra work and leverage your skill and experience to pour more money on top of the little fire, the bigger that fire gets. That would be a direct challenge in this situation for him. That's very good. And that reminds me, you know, when they're walking around out there in the world, people say these sayings that are just stupid. Right. You know, here's one of them. What you don't know won't hurt you. What you don't know will kill you.

1:41:05That's a dumb butt saying. you know lack of knowledge will knock you out man i mean it's that's a ridiculous you know like you can just stick your head in the sand and i'm not talking about jack here i'm just saying in general but uh yeah it's a big deal to know new things all the time angela's with us in knoxville hi angela how are you hey dave i'm doing all right how are you better than i deserve what's up Awesome. So today is actually my birthday. Happy birthday. Thank you. How old are you? I had like a kiss in 42. Oh, okay. Just a pup. Yeah. Yeah. So I actually met you in Orlando a couple years ago, in fact, at one of your events.

1:41:50So I'm trying to get back on track, Dave. I never did the baby steps. I purchased FPU at that event, never did anything with it, like a dummy. and so basically I'm in$30 ,000 in debt. About 18 of that is my car and another seven in credit card debt and I owe five to a family member. And so my question is, I'm trying to figure out the best way to go about once I get to baby step two because I'm going to be finishing baby step one next month and then in August I'm going to start tackling the debt. my car has about 250 ,000 miles and I use my car right now to make a living. And so my concern is if I start tackling the smaller debts first and then my car breaks down on and the transmission goes out or something, I can't fix it.

1:42:44And I, you know, I don't know if I should be saving more in my step one for that, or that's kind of where I'm stuck. And I just wanted your input. You owe$18 ,000 on it? Yeah. I had a paid-for 4Runner a few years ago, and then I started a new job. You owe$18 ,000 on a car you have 250 ,000 miles on? Yeah, because I was a courier. I ran the miles up on that thing. I was a courier for the last two, three years since I bought the car. I just racked it up. Okay. What kind of car is it? It's a 19 Dodge Charger. Okay. uh six cylinders the cheaper one yeah okay all right okay uh no i mean we're worrying about something that hasn't happened yet it's it's a reasonable thing to worry about because those things may occur but i'm not going to change the game plan here i'm going to um you know if you have a problem you may have to stop your baby steps and address the problem but until you do you were already broke before you started this and now you're just running broke trying to do actually do some good and climb out right yeah i mean so yeah cut up your credit cards and let's start attacking them with a vengeance and work as many hours as you can and as ken says always you know get an extra job let's do six things and and uh do that written budget in detail and live on nothing and work all the time and let's begin to get this cleaned up because this is a scary place to be for you it definitely is i'm actually i had i moved to knoxville from florida back in just this last December.

1:44:21And I had a pretty decent job. Didn't pay too great, but it was all right. It was my first job since I moved here. I got laid off like after three months. They just didn't need me anymore. And so I've been door dashing like 72 hours a week ever since. And I have another job that I started, but they're just trickling me in with work. I'm not full time with it yet. Once I do, that should be about 72 a year. That'd be huge. That changes everything, Ken. Yeah, I'd love to see her really hustle through this quickly because that car is going to be a problem pretty soon. Yeah, yeah. But I don't want to stop doing it.

1:45:02No, no, no. In lieu of something that hadn't happened yet. I'd let that be that extra motivator. Yeah, exactly. This is The Ramsey Show.

1:45:15When you're tired of feeling stuck with money, there's just one solution. To get different results, you have to do something different. No one accidentally wins with money. You have to have a game plan, and that begins with our Get Started assessment. Go to RamseySolutions.com slash start, answer some questions, and we'll show you what steps to take next. Don't stay stuck. Take control of your money starting today. Go with RamseySolutions.com slash start.

1:45:53Have y 'all noticed that real estate is weird right now? It's weird out there. I mean, it's strange. If you're going to buy a house right now, if you're going to sell a house right now, you don't really need to be screwing around with this unless you're dealing with somebody that really knows what they're doing. Because it's a strange time, and you need someone to help you navigate that. If you're a buyer, that way you don't get ripped off and you don't get pushed into some kind of weird thing. or if you're a seller, you get the proper amount for the property and the right kind of marketing advice from a pro who's actually done it before, not your uncle Henry who got his license three weeks ago and demands that you list your largest asset with him.

1:46:30That's dumb. Don't do that. No, no. We're going to get like somebody that sells 30 to 300 houses a year. That's somebody who actually stays in the business when things are good and when things are bad. They know the market, They know how to navigate weirdness, and they can help you. We vet all of the agents that we put in the Ramsey Trusted Program. We coach them. They're lined up with what we teach here. They understand if you're listening to this show that you're going to be calling with that mindset, and they really are high-octane, high-protein, get-or-done people with proven track records.

1:47:04To find a Ramsey Trusted Real Estate Agent for free, just go to RamseySolutions.com slash agent. Amit is with us in Greensboro, North Carolina. Hi, Amit. How are you? I'm great. How are you guys? Better than we deserve. What's up? So, long story here, but my technical background is engineering and science. I did that for a few years. I went to school for it and everything, but loved basketball, ended up switching careers, and I ended up coaching basketball first at the collegiate level, Division I, and then into the NBA for the last two years. The NBA is moving more and more towards hiring players.

1:47:45Even with 10 years experience in coaching at those levels, I'm having a hard time finding jobs that are paying me enough to get by. I'm married. I don't have any kids, but my wife makes exponentially more money than me. So financially, we're okay. We have no debt, nothing. Homes paid off, cars are paid off. So we're good there. But I'm thinking now of transitioning into a different career. I have no idea what to do. And I've been so out of touch with what my degrees are in that I don't know if I could go back or if anybody would take it, you know, bring me back there, if that makes sense. It does make sense, but I want you to know that that's your fear and doubt that's clouding your judgment.

1:48:24And just somebody who's completely objective, a former Division I basketball coach, a former NBA coach, is a highly attractive bio and resume, especially if you have some skill set that will apply to what you're going for. But I'm just interested. What's your favorite part of coaching? To me, it's about the relationships and the people I interact with every single day, whether it's players or other coaches or executives, administrators, whatever it may be. It's a very people - and relationship-driven business, and that to me is why I got into it in the first place. I know the salaries are crazy right now, especially in the NBA, but I never was about it for the money.

1:49:02I was in it for experience, opportunity, and just because it felt so satisfying, and it still feels satisfying, and I want to keep doing it as long as I can. Did you play college basketball at any level? I did not. You did not. That's the crazy part. No, it's not. I'm 5 '10", I'm Indian, and there are not a lot of people that look like me that do this. Right. Okay, you actually led me right into my question, and you're making my case for me. You aren't in that position because of your X and O's knowledge and being a guru, a guy who put up 25 points a game. you're not in that role and you haven't gotten into that role based on that.

1:49:40Is that true or false? My success is all from work and relationships. That's it. I don't have the 15-year NBA career that some of these guys have. Exactly. And you have managed to get to the highest level of a sport, the NBA, as a 5 '10 Indian. I mean, you really are an absolute freak in a good way. Okay? And it's all based on your skill set of connecting with others. Can I just tell you something? And Dave can chime in here. He's a guy that is the founder and active CEO of a company of over a thousand people. And he hosts one of the largest, most influential leadership podcasts in the world. We talk about leadership all the time.

1:50:26America needs leaders. I'm paying attention to this stuff every day. And companies need people who can lead people, who know how to connect with people, who know how to communicate with people, who know how to instruct people, who know how to encourage people. Amit, you got an incredible resume. Oh, and an engineering degree. So if I'm you, I'm going, I'm going to start with, let me take that degree of engineering and I'm going to look at the engineering field. I'm not going to limit myself to engineering, but I'm going to start there because I got the degree. And then I'm going to, I'm going to start working my connections.

1:50:59By the way, I'm going to give you my book, The Proximity Principle, which for a guy like you, who's a learner, it's going to give you the absolute formula. The five people you need to be around that will help you get where you want to go. And by the way, you have an unbelievable network. And so all those coaches who know business guys, your college connections with all these business guys who used to donate money big time, they were hanging around those D1 programs. Those are your connections. And you go, look, I got an engineering degree. I can get in the engineering field and lead people today.

1:51:31I may not be the most talented engineer, which by the way, Amit, tell me if I'm right or wrong. The guys and gals that are leading teams of engineers are rarely the most talented engineer. True or false? I wouldn't know. I've been removed from it for so long that I don't remember. All right, I'll tell you the answer. The answer is leading engineers. You don't have to be the smartest, Dave, the most talented engineer. You just got to know how to lead people. And this guy, he's bona fide. That's my take. And he's going for management and leadership positions across the spectrum of the business world.

1:52:03I think he can go just about anywhere because it's not about the trade and it's not about the industry. It's about his ability to come in and bring a team together. That's my two cents on that one. Exactly right. What we teach when we're teaching entree leadership to business people is what happens a lot of times in small businesses, people become accidental entrepreneurs. Uh, you know, I'm really good at heating and air and I get me a truck and then I look up and I got 40 people and 10 trucks running around. Now I'm no longer, uh, now I'm no longer a heating and air technician. Now I'm a leader.

1:52:37That's right. And leading and running a business is a different skillset than fixing your air conditioner and leading and running people is a different skillset than playing basketball or being an engineer. The leadership skill set you excel in. That's right. And so you do have a great resume in that sense. Now, the trick is where do you want to plug it in? What type of a business, what kind of dynamic environment do you want to be in where you're leading and then finding people through your connections with proximity principle to plug into one of those locations would be, You'd just be amazing.

1:53:15Yeah. I mean, he can absolutely make this transition and do very, very well. Because what he has going for him that a lot of NBA coaches don't have if they leave that industry is he's got a really good degree. That engineering degree is very helpful. Meaning he's got that skill set. He's got the mindset to think like an engineer. You add the leadership to it. Unbelievable. Absolutely. That's exactly how it works. So hang on. We'll have Christian pick up and we will get you signed up for that. send out that book to you, Amit. So, Ken, the proximity principle, give us the thesis of that. It just simply means this.

1:53:53If I am around the people and in the places of the space that I want to be in, then opportunities come my way. And so the formula is this, the right people plus the right places always will equal opportunity. I got to get around the right people, and then I get in the right places. And when I'm in the right places, I meet more of the right people. And then they point me to the right places. And it is this knowledge and connection combination that just keeps moving, moving, moving, moving, moving. And if you stay with it long enough, opportunities show up on your doorstep. This idea of kicking the door down is Hollywood bravado.

1:54:31It makes for great fantasy, but in the real world, connections come at the most unexpected times because we keep showing up in the right place or we keep showing up around the right people. And all of a sudden I'm top of mind or I've got the experience and I was showing up and then boom, I'm ready to step into it. Speaking of basketball, John Wooden, arguably one of the greatest coaches all time, certainly basketball. My favorite quote, Dave, he said, when opportunity comes, it's too late to prepare. And the proximity principle gets me in a place when the opportunity shows up, I'm ready to step right into it because I kept putting myself around the right people and in the right places.

1:55:10This is The Ramsey Show.

1:55:46All right, let's cut to the chase. It's easy to get discouraged about crazy house prices and interest rates. But when you have the right real estate agent to help you buy and sell the right way, you'll have confidence to make smart decisions. Ramsey trusted agents aren't just experts who guide you through buying or selling. They're people you can trust to have your back from the first call to closing day. Find a Ramsey trusted agent near you at RamseySolutions.com slash agent. That's RamseySolutions.com slash agent.

1:56:35our scripture of the day proverbs 3 6 in all your ways acknowledge him and he shall direct your paths thomas sowell says some of the biggest cases of mistaken identity are among intellectuals who have trouble remembering that they are not god classic classic passive aggressive just mic drop there by thomas sowell boom there he goes David is in Chicago. Hi, David. Welcome to the Ramsey Show. Oh, thank you very much. Thanks for having me. Sure. How can I help? My question is that I'm trying to do the baby steps. I got myself a little bit of a quagmire with my debt, mostly real estate investment, but nothing horrible.

1:57:17So I'm trying to apply the baby steps, and I'd like to sell one on my rentals, but I just don't think my tenant is going to be able to relocate and or somewhat of a moral quandary. Anything.

1:57:37Why can't your tenant relocate? I just don't think that she'll be able to get another home, especially one as nice and large as this one, to house her and her kids. So you're not charging her market rent? Yeah, it's close. I mean, I could probably charge her more. So if she's getting close to market rent, why can she not take close to market rent and go rent something else? I don't think she – I just don't think that it's really available. I think it's really going to put her in a position. Why is it not available? You think you have the only house? No, no, I don't. I don't, but I think she's paying for her mom's rent too, and I've tried to counsel her that maybe they could live together, but I don't think that's available.

1:58:23She's been late and behind. You know how it is, the Reynolds. Like I said, I just don't want to. Let me ask a question. I'm curious, did you feel this way? Did you have this concern for her before you talked to her about the possibility that you were going to do this? Yeah, I did. Okay. And what was her reaction when you told her that this was a possibility? I broke it to her a little bit, but I really haven't come down. You didn't answer my question. What was her reaction? I didn't really say it. I didn't really say anything about selling it. It really hasn't come up yet. Oh. I know it's not going to go over well because I don't think she's going to find.

1:59:08Well, but there's a lot of thinking. You keep using the word think. Listen, it is not your job to manage her house. That's right. You're her landlord, not her boss. You're not her daddy. And so she's paying almost market rent so she can pay this, take the almost market rent, and go rent something else. And if she wants to combine households with her mom, that's completely her business and her problem. It is not your job to manage her life. Yeah, you're right. And you're not doing anything wrong to take an asset of yours and say, you know, you don't want to be mean or nasty about it. And if you want to give a little bit more notice, there's nothing on fire here.

1:59:52You know, we're going to instead of giving you, I don't know, she on month to month. She is now. She didn't want to resign last summer. Oh, she didn't want to resign last summer. No. Hmm. Yeah. Hmm. I get a fair amount of runners like that that don't want to resign. Yeah. But they're not committed to you. You don't have to commit to them. The point is you're not a bad guy. I think if you said, okay, I'm legally bound by the lack of a lease to give you one month's notice. I'm going to give you three months. That's a good compromise. And that gives you plenty of time to work your way through this.

2:00:33I've appreciated you being our tenant, except for those times that you didn't pay on time. And you don't have to say that. But, you know, you're acting like this is some kind of freaking stellar tenant. They don't pay market rent and they don't pay on time. So I missed where I'm excited about this tenant. So, you know, I and that's not being mean. It's just like you got really one job when you're a tenant. Well, two, don't tear up the house and pay the rent on time. These are the two jobs you got. So it's your job to make sure you're charged market rent. So, no, you don't have a moral dilemma at all.

2:01:12You can be kind and you could give more than adequate notice and say, you know, I'm sorry. Gosh, if there's any way I can help you with this, I'll try to help you. But if helping you means you staying in the house past this 90-day mark, that's not the type of help I'm talking about. But if we can assist you in any way, I can tell you about my friends that have properties, help you find something like that. I appreciate this, but that's what we're going to do. We're going to give you three months notice. Listen, she can process this in three months. And if she's angry at her landlord who she refused to sign a lease with for giving her three months notice, who's only required to give her one month notice, that's her fault, not yours.

2:01:59That's her fault. And so I think this is all about David. He's such a nice guy that he's worried about a confrontational situation. And I understand that. But this is nothing more than a difficult conversation. And it's not his bag. And I get it. but she's going to be fine just by virtue of only she don't want to sign a deal anyway she's got options she knows it could change at any time David you're a really good dude and you're just fretting over a difficult conversation and it's going to be over in about yeah 45 50 seconds I mean there's not a lot to it yeah it's um hey going to be selling the house I'm going to be sending you a note in the mail so we make it formal that um you know July 1st we're going to be done august 1st whatever it is and i'm giving you plenty of time you had 30 you have a 30 day right um but i'm going to give you 90 days just because you've been here a while and i want to be kind and um thanks that's it i'm done it's really it's really don't have to have big long thing here it's not a whole bunch of feelings it's it's um i've had i've had landlords in my life and none of them had any feelings for me you know that's right i just none of them did i just i never had one that did that.

2:03:08And I mean, if you get a situation like we had one, one time that, you know, a guy got a terminal cancer diagnosis, you know, and he's got four months to live and he lost his job because he lost his health and his wife had three little kids at home and all this. And so, you know, we just didn't charge him rent. We let him live there and let her live there after he passed for a little while. I mean, we worked, we worked with him, but, but that can't go on for eight years either. No, even that, you know, it's a, it's a period of time we can have some grace and mercy with somebody in that situation but just simply they're gonna have to move that's you know this lady she really just gotta move i mean this part that's why folks that's why you want to be an owner when you can be and um and not in a stupid way don't go buy something you can't afford because i'm afraid my landlord's gonna do that oh by the way if you don't have to move sign a lease hello then they've you know he if he had a one-year contract then he'd have have to honor that morally, ethically, legally, everything at that point.

2:04:09So there's the process. And, you know, here's the other thing. Those of you that... are that are thinking of owning real estate, you need to have a policy of raising the rent every single year. because I've been doing real estate for about 40 years and rents have gone up every single year. And the people that I know that get stuck in situations like this, they don't raise the rent for five years because it's a nice person and they pay on time and they cut the grass real in a little pattern. And then we just love them and you don't raise the rent for five years. And suddenly you've got a way below market situation.

2:04:53And then you try to raise the rent and they have a fit like they think they're the owner. So it's really good. It just keeps the relationship accurately defined when we raise the rent, even if it's a little bit. What's the Dave Ramsey way on that? Do you look at the market and then just undercut it a bit? We look at the market and we go, if they've been with us a long time, it's a little under market. Okay. But not, I mean, I'll take it all the way to the max plus some. Been there one year, we just take it up to market. If they've been there five years, we tell them when they come in too. Right.

2:05:24Next year, rents are going to be higher. and just expect, go ahead and know. And that way they're not shocked, like, what? You know, what? Right. I don't understand. I mean, what do you mean what? Rents are going up. And so if you don't have that pattern, you set an entitlement expectation in place, and it creates real serious problems later. It's a real bad idea. That puts us out of the Ramsey Show and the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, There's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

2:06:28We'll be right back.