You Don’t Have to Stay Broke

23:56Rachel Cruze:But the planner world can, it's a world out there. There are women that live in this world. Can you detect my, I can't stand, my wife still uses one of these. She loves this. I know. When we do dates, I'm on my phone. She's over here with this thing. Flipping her calendar open. Oh, I don't get it. But I do get it. My wife loves this. Stacey's going to be thrilled. It's beautiful. I might take this one, James. Can I take this one home? Surprise, Stacey. You may not. Okay. James says, no, that's show props, sir. You can buy your own, Kim. I love it. It was so polite. And at the lowest price ever.

24:30$35.97 only at RamseySolutions.com slash store. RamseySolutions.com slash store. Maybe Kelly, the associate producer, will get a free one. Maybe. I don't know. I don't know if it's a perk. You have to talk to James. All right. Lori's up next in Canada. Lori, how can we help?

24:48Rachel Cruze:Hi, Ken. Hi, Rachel. Thank you so much for taking my call. Rachel, it's nice to talk to you again. I was on the phone with you and Jade about a month or so ago. And so I'm hoping to expand a little bit on my question a little bit. I did follow your advice. My question was whether to get a mobile home or rent. Yes, I remember this. Yes. And what did Rachel tell you? I took a few days to get around to it, but I am following your advice. And now my question comes up. There's a new question that comes up, actually. So I'm 27 years old. I have about$28 ,000 in student debt. I earn about$4 ,000 a month after tax.

25:32Rachel Cruze:And so I'll be relocating three hours away for a job. I'm currently living with family rent-free and now with that move I'll be renting. I was going to be done baby step two in March of 2026, but now with this move I'm going to be delaying my debt-free date by 12 to 14 months just based on the numbers I've crunched. You're making less money? No, I'll be renting now and right now I'm not renting at all. That's right. You're living free. That's right. Okay. So we have a$1 ,200 increase. What about the income increase? I'm not increasing income yet. There's a few variables that are still unknown, but I should know soon if I will be getting an increase in income in a few months.

26:24Okay.

26:25Rachel Cruze:But like, I have a part time job right now, I'll be losing that. It's just creating a lot of anxiety and fear around paying off debt. I feel really demoralized about. Okay, so hold on. So hold on. What's demoralizing you? Is it the increase in cost? Because you're living for free now? And is it also that you're losing this part time job? Is that are those the sources of feeling demoralized? Because I'm going backwards? um it's more so just a debt-free date that's being pushed back by so much like it's those are the two reasons or more are those the two primary reasons here i'm setting you up those are the two primary reasons why you're moving the date right yes okay so let's let's look at how we would maybe not move the date okay first of all we don't know yet what your increase in income is going to be true or false uh true true and there are part-time jobs where you're moving true or false true it has been very difficult though i've been applying actually prematurely just in hopes to get some responses but i have yet to receive anything how much okay i get it but let's have a mindset here that i it is possible isn't it true that it's possible that you can find a part-time job at some point upon moving.

27:44Is that possible? It is. Okay, great. Now tell Rachel and I, how much money of that income that you're bringing home that you told us, how much of that is from the part-time job?

27:53Rachel Cruze:It's not actually. So with the part-time job, I get an additional like 500 to $1 ,000 a month. I don't work a lot of hours where I'm currently working in my part-time job. So, and also we're in the low season right now. Okay. So what I would tell you, Lori, is to find something that you make$1 ,200 a month. And, and that's part of this baby step two process. It's cutting all expenses and bringing in extra income and it's scorched earth. So instead of it extending an additional 12 months, cause you were going to be out by March, which is pretty soon. I mean, that's, you know, six months. Um, is that right?

28:34Rachel Cruze:Eight months, eight months. I had to count the months real quick make sure that was correct um so and yeah so eight months and now you're saying it's going to be an additional year because of you don't have a part-time job right now and the rent so what i would make it a goal is to say it may not be march but it's going to be june like it's not gonna be another year i agree and work like crazy that's all you have to do for eight months eight months all you got to do is just is is spend nothing you know yeah take your expenses all the way down and then that extra that extra income is what is key for a lot of people that get out of debt that's what we find and again it's not forever yeah but it's literally just through the christmas season into the spring and then you have your end date and you're good and laurie what about a roommate i've considered those options i i've asked around friends and things like that i there hasn't been anybody lori lori listen let me tell you what's going on And I'm saying, can I be big brother here?

29:37You have the spirit of, I can't do it. It's so hard. And I love that you called back. And I love that you're being honest with us. But every time we present a solution to you, and the way you set the entire call up is, I'm overwhelmed. Which means, and I've talked to a lot of overwhelmed people in my time at Ramsey Solutions. And the reason they're overwhelmed is because they don't believe. believe they don't believe okay so what we've been attempting to do is to go wait a second is it possible and that was my little game that i did with you a little bit earlier because i the thing that's going on with you is you've actually done so well you're committed and now you've had a change of life and it has thrown you off but this is all mindset this is not some like kumbaya technique i'm trying to tell you i'm telling you you've got to go wait a second this is how i feel that's real and and i don't in any way want to minimize your emotions however you feel that way because you've not allowed your mind to actually look for solutions you just saw roadblock i gotta move now now i'm not getting rent free i'm actually paying rent well welcome to the real world you've been living in la la land with no rent good for you but this is real life this is not the end of the world okay so rachel i've walked you through these scenarios and i'm telling you i encourage you, you can find a roommate.

30:56You can find a part-time job. And if you do those things, as Rachel said, you won't have to push back the timeline. And dare I say, if you get a roommate, I think you can beat the debt-free payoff. Go even earlier. Let's cut it from$1 ,200 to$600. Yeah.

31:16Rachel Cruze:And Lori, I want you to know that this is possible. You're not trying to find$10 ,000 a month. It's, it's a thousand bucks. You can do it. You can do it. Yes. So go, you know, take this situation and say, I'm going to happen to it. Not let it happen to me. We believe in you. You got this.

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33:41All right. If you are not sure how you're doing on staying in step with the baby steps, we have a quick quiz that allow you to check your progress and get a personalized plan. Go to the show notes. If you're listening via podcast and YouTube, click on the link titled, Are You On Track With The Baby Steps? Quick little quiz, and that'll let you know where you stand. It's very important that you understand in any kind of process-oriented goal, okay, I'm on this path, that there are going to be just times in life where you just feel like you're off step and seeing where you stand, knowing where you stand is really huge to mentally getting back on track so you can keep going.

34:22So that's a fabulous little quiz. We'd love for you to join us there. Leo is up in San Diego, California. Leo, how can we help today? uh how you doing uh thank you for taking my call i really appreciate it sure um so um me and my wife we're newlyweds been married we got married uh february 14th congrats a little valentine's day wedding nice yeah yeah it was it was good um we've been together a total about three and a half

34:49Rachel Cruze:years uh we've been we got our own apartment about a little about two years ago and our mother-in-law Well, she wasn't my mother-in-law at first, but she decided she offered to help us with rent. So we took her up on the offer and everything was going good until we got married. A couple of months after we got married, she started harassing my wife, like through text message, like just all kinds of just mean and dirty, just vile things. Just like just mean things. And then that's fun. So we basically decided to just, you know, kind of just decline her help because she was kind of putting stipulations on it.

35:36Rachel Cruze:Like one where she called and said, if you want our rent, if you want my half of the rent this month, you have to prove to me X, Y, Z, which was no problem because we proved it to her. But it was just like out of nowhere, you know. Well, she out of nowhere started harassing her own daughter. This woman's cray cray. Yes. Did you know she was crazy before you married? yes well what are you okay quick life lesson i tried don't ever ever ever fight your instinct on relationship stuff with family members because if the crazy is in the family there's more crazy he's going to show up so let's let's move forward on this and put up a boundary put up a boundary she can't yeah yes we our boundary was blocking her um so that was that's that but ever since ever since before before we decided to um stop taking her help we were doing great with staying up on our staying our bills were paid on time everything was good okay but we didn't save we didn't save anything my wife was saying hey we need to save but me being bad with money we made i made very bad decisions and we ended up in a situation where we didn't have any we weren't ready for this situation that we were in you weren't I'm ready for a period because I just want to rewind real quick.

36:54You got, you've said twice now that you guys were great at paying everything while she was giving you money, which means you weren't ever great because you didn't have enough money to pay your bills. So where do we stand today? Her money's gone. Thank goodness. How short are you? Okay. So we are paying the rent, but we are late every month. So every check we're, we're coming up with them, like we're catching up. So this next first of the month, we're going to be short. The next check after that, we'll catch up.

37:25Rachel Cruze:Okay, how much do you guys make per month? What do you both bring in? Between us, we bring probably, oh, I don't know, the month between us. I just did the yearly. The yearly between both of us is 50K. Between the both of you, it's 50K? Yes. What do you guys do for a living? uh i do aerospace manufacturing and she's a barista in a hotel okay i love that you said you do aerospace manufacturing but let's get real what is your job you're only making 25 000 a year average between the two of you what are you doing i do i do deburring which is like the lowest i am currently uh in training like i do have cnc experience i'm in training like within the next year.

38:11Rachel Cruze:I do plan on moving up. I'm in the process of moving up to a CNC position. How much would you make? Which will come with a raise. Probably about$2 or$3 more. Probably about$25, $28 at the max, I'm guessing. That's after I get some schooling and more training. How old are you guys? I am 39. We're both 39. Okay. 39. You guys, you don't even know what you make. So it's really hard for Rachel to coach you up on, you don't even know how much you make. You've just given us, we got a$50 ,000 figure. So what debt do you have? Here's what's going to happen, Leo. I'm going to be really honest with you, okay?

38:45Rachel Cruze:If Ken and I were out to drinks with you and your newlywed wife, this is what I would say to you. Cocktail wisdom. Here it comes. I would say everything you've known and thought and done with money, we're going to do the complete opposite. Good decision. Okay? Meaning you don't really know where your money's going. You don't really know how much you make or bring in a month. That's going to change. You're going to know to the cent because you are going to be so detailed, so intense, so OCD about your money and where every dollar is going that you're going to be able to rattle off what you guys spend at the grocery store every week.

39:23Rachel Cruze:Okay. Because you guys are going to have a very, very detailed budget and we're going to give you some stuff, Leo, to help you help this happen. Okay. But that's the thing. We've been trying to, and I'm going honest too, Leo, you guys, you know, your jobs, what you're making, you guys need to be making double. So she's working as a barista. If I were her, I would be applying to be a receptionist somewhere, right? Go be an assistant to someone like go. You have to be in this position because you're both adults now. And, and if you want to have a family and you guys want to, you know, extend your lives, these incomes have to go up, which means probably a change of career, probably more for her yours sounds like it hopefully has some well taking off it's taking off okay she has kids so we already have kids in the like they're her kids they're my stepkids okay um so we their kids are definitely in the they're not full-time with us all right leo leo leo leo it's it's a okay yeah hold on i'm sorry we have limited no no you're great we're trying to help you how much do you make per hour okay do you know that i make 21 an hour okay so a year from now you think or believe you're going to get a two to three dollar an hour raise yes that's not that's not a career this year that's yeah but that's not a career that's taken off yes you're not taken off you're on the doorstep of 40 and and you've got to get serious i'm not beating up on you i'm just going dude like you you've got to have a plan that moves you forward not a year from now to a two to three dollar raise okay yes same thing right so we need to collectively get together and say what do we want for our lives what's a target exactly what must be true for us to make a hundred thousand dollars combined and you guys listen time is moving bro yes you're right you're right you're right we don't have time at 39 to wait a year to make a two to three dollar And Leo, what do you guys owe on your cars?

41:27Rachel Cruze:What do you all owe on your cars? So, okay, so I own my vehicle that I just purchased under a year ago, but it's given me issues. So getting a second job has been, it's a possibility, but just having car issues. No, no, no, no, no. See, that's the problem. What does she owe on hers? She owes$1 ,500 on her car. Oh, okay, okay. Okay, what other debt do you guys have? Credit card? We have$1 ,500. $100 total is what she owes. That's what's left on her loan for her car. Yes. Great. Great. Great. Our debt and credit is all we only have are credit card debt, which is$8 ,000. Okay. Okay. Okay. So tonight.

42:08Rachel Cruze:And that's all our debt. All your debt. That's great. That's awesome. Okay. So I would cut up the credit cards. Don't even make it a temptation. Your goal for next month. Yeah, we don't even have a balance on our credit cards. That's great. We'll cut them up anyways. I don't. Well, you have a balance. You got$8 ,000. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, like, we don't have anything available to spend on it. So you're right. Oh, it's maxed out. Okay, perfect. You say that like that's a good thing. Can I just say? It's not a good thing. It's not a good thing. I'm embarrassed about it. No, Leo. Okay, so no, you're doing, this is great.

42:35Rachel Cruze:Okay, so here's what I want you to do when you get off this call, okay? You both need to apply for second jobs. Your goal is to get$1 ,000 emergency funds, okay, in the next 60 days, 30 days, 40 days, and catching up on rent. Those are your two goals. emergency fund and catching up on rent with the second job should should help free up some of that cash and then once that happens you guys start paying off this debt smallest the largest the car and then the credit cards you can do this leo stay on the line kelly's gonna pick up we'll give you some stuff

43:23I've been doing this show for over 30 years, and some of the saddest calls I've taken are from situations that are completely preventable.

43:34Rachel Cruze:Yeah, and what's so hard is I feel like one of those, especially the ones that I'm like, oh, it's terrible. People that call in and their spouse has passed away suddenly, and they don't have life insurance. We actually took a question of a lady, and she had three kids, pregnant, and husband didn't have life insurance. and I'm like, I can't even imagine, or even if it was opposite, right? If a mom passed away, there's a dad with kids and trying to figure out how am I gonna afford childcare? How do I outsource some stuff that maybe she was doing? And it just takes the grief and the sadness of something like a sudden death to a whole new level.

44:09Rachel Cruze:Like when you have to think through how am I gonna pay my bills? How am I gonna eat next week? Yeah, in the middle of all that grief. Like it's just, it is, it's terrible. And so life insurance is the one thing, especially as a mom with three little kids that I'm like so big on for people to get because it's inexpensive. Xander is the place that Winston and I actually get all of our life insurance. And we keep re-upping it because I'm like, I just want it there. Like there's something about that safety of knowing that you have money if something suddenly happens. And it doesn't cost much because Xander shops among a gazillion different companies.

44:38It doesn't cost much. You just have to admit that someday you're not going to be here. You got to say it out loud and you got to say, I'm going to say I love you to my family by taking care of them and taking the time to put this stuff in place. that cost us stinking pizza.

44:50Rachel Cruze:It really is. So that is one thing to do to say I love you to your family. So we've used Xander for all of our family's needs for insurance for many years, including, of course, term life insurance. To get a free quote, go to 800-356-4282. That's 800-356-4282. Or go to Xander.com.

45:22This is the Ramsey Show, where we help you win with your money, win in your work, and win in your relationships. Alongside Rachel Cruz, I'm Ken Coleman. Happy to have you with us. The phone number to jump in on the conversation is 888-825-5225. Meg is up next in Utah. Meg, how can we help today? Hi, my fiancé is asking me to spend my life saving from before I met him into renovating his parents' home. Have you asked him if he's lost his ever-loving mind? Well, I saved the money for a car, and we had a baby. So we live in said home. We plan on purchasing things at home, but we haven't done any of those things yet.

46:11You just rolled right by my very pertinent and relevant question, Meg. Your life savings, how much is that? That's$30K. Okay. And you just blitzed right by my question. I'm serious. What emotion, what thoughts entered your mind when this guy said this to you?

46:33Rachel Cruze:Mixed emotions. One, I feel like if I purchased the home first, I'd feel better about spending my life savings on it. Wait, wait, wait, wait. I thought it was his parents' home. Yes, but then she said they're going to buy it. When are y 'all going to buy it? Well, we're looking at doing that last year. Then his parents were feeling bad about the fact that it would cost me$30 ,000 to essentially buy the loan. once, you know, everybody's paid. Do y 'all like the house? Why are y 'all doing this deal? I don't understand. Why don't y 'all just go buy a house? So where I live, 30K does not really get you anywhere to purchase a home.

47:16Rachel Cruze:The average home in my neighborhood is probably 500K. Are they giving you the home? No. Okay. Essentially giving us the equity on the home. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. First of all, you guys are not married, so that's your money, not his money. And in no situation should you give your money to his parents to renovate a home that you may or may not have. This is going to turn into an absolute nightmare. What about the car? You've been saving up for a car that you need, yes? Yes. Like, how bad do you need this car? Not super bad. I work remote. But is your current car failing is what I'm getting at?

47:57uh no i have a lease and my lease ends in december and i'm not willing to purchase do you okay this thirty thousand dollars is your money full stop period you need to use it for your stuff now the day that he puts a ring on your finger and you guys get married you join finances when are you getting married it's your fiancee i don't know i have a six-month-old at home so one day when i I sleep at night. One day when you can sleep at night.

48:27Rachel Cruze:And I'm assuming that's his baby, correct? He is, yes. Why doesn't he have any money? He does now. Why does he need your money? Well, he does now, but he has a lot of credit card debt that he needs to take care of. I was helping with that when I had a whole lot more money. but I stopped working free jobs when I had a baby so now we make about the same. Okay you called to ask us what we thought about this correct? Yes. Okay I know what you thought about it you gave me the mixed emotions why don't you just tell us what you really felt what did you feel when he hit you with that?

49:15i felt like this is a dumb idea great you are correct that's what rachel and i think oddly enough meg wins let me pull the audience out here we got about 50 people out there if you think this is a dumb idea raise your hand everybody in the audience we got a lot of hands raised meg there's

49:34Rachel Cruze:your uh focus group so so number one meg we do not combine finances we do not share finances we We do not pay on each other's debts and or homes or future in-law homes. We do nothing combining until we are married. You have no financial obligation to help him and you have no protection. If you guys were married and something happened, then we can get Utah State involved and we can figure that out with assets and everything. But you have no protection, Meg. Okay, so number one, no combining finances. Number two, it's, I would go this weekend, Meg. If you love him and you think he's the one, you got a six month old together, you're living together.

50:17Rachel Cruze:I think you just go get a marriage license. Y 'all need to get married. You need to start this life. You're in, you're acting married. Just go do it. Do a wedding later, whatever the celebration is. You guys need to start actually living in the reality of which you live. And so if I were you, and if you love him, right? You want to marry him, right? I love him. I don't love how he handles money. Okay. Well, then there's a red flag. This is a great reason not to marry him. Yes. Yes, because then his debt is my debt, and I've lived debt free in my whole life. Well, is he on board of trying to get out of debt?

50:51Rachel Cruze:Because you said you were trying to help him pay off debt, and you gave him some money to pay off debt. Is he working his way out of debt? He has some, what's a nice way to say it, interesting ideas on how to get out of debt. But he has a philosophy of my goal in life is that in one year we don't have to have this conversation about money because I'll be making so much more that we don't have to worry about money. This is what I thought in high school. I thought that one day I would be able to dunk a basketball. Just kind of thought it would happen. Never happened, Rachel. And money magnifies the situation.

51:27Rachel Cruze:You're not going to have to not talk about it because you make money. Yeah. This guy, this is a tough situation. You need to define the relationship. That's what needs to happen here. Number one, no, I'm not giving you money. This is crazy. I don't feel comfortable marrying you until we get on the same page with money. So therefore, putting money into a future thing. No, no, no. Definitely not. Love you. No. Did I mention that I love you? No. All right, that's first thing. And I'm not kidding. I actually don't want you to go down to the courthouse. And Rachel doesn't either now. No, I don't. But I hate that you guys have a six-month-old.

52:05Rachel Cruze:I mean, my hope is that this— We don't want to further complicate it. No, we don't. But I do hope that you guys work to mend this for the sake of the six-month-old and for your futures together. I agree. Well, if I had him on the phone, I'd go, do you love this woman? And hopefully he'd say yes. And I'd go, why don't you throw out all your cockamamie ideas that don't require you to do hard work and work for a while to get successful? And why don't you ask your fiancé what she thinks about money and why she thinks about it? Because she has$30 ,000. Because she's doing it better than you, Sparky.

52:32Rachel Cruze:Yeah, 100%. And so, you know, that's what needs to happen. He needs to man up, you know. Yeah, and for the most part, he's okay. I mentioned I can just manage money. I'm great at managing money. I'm great at saving money. I can get us wherever we want. Well, then tell him if he wants to marry you that you're going to manage the money and he's going to be in the budget meeting, but he's going to sit there. He's going to learn. Right? Right. Like if he's willing to let you if he's willing to marry you and we now adopt your money principles, if this guy's really willing to do it, which, by the way, he would need to show that to you.

53:08If you were my sister, I'd go, don't you even dare marry this clown until he shows you that he is willing to get on board with you and then live his life that way for a minimum of six months. So, yeah, Meg, I'm sorry. Yeah, I tried to have those conversations. Yeah. Well, maybe he needs to know that you're not going to stick around. You know? Define the relationship. Rachel, what do you think?

53:36Rachel Cruze:Don't give him money. No. That's my number one, Meg. No money. You're not crazy or mean by not putting your$30 ,000 into his parents' home. You know, I was going to ask James if I should get ordained so I could marry couples on the spot for future situations like this. You would not have married Meg. Now I would have said no, Meg. We would have not. No marriage.

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55:12Our question of the day is brought to you by our friends at Y-Refi. You didn't take out private student loans hoping to default, but life does happen. But Why Refi is not going to shame you. They're going to help you explore a real plan to get back on track. You can head to whyrefi.com slash Ramsey to find out how they can help you. That's the letter Y-R-E-F-Y dot com slash Ramsey. It may not be available in all states.

55:36Rachel Cruze:Today's question comes from Renee in New York. Why do you encourage kids to move out of their parents' home so young? Isn't it better for them to work, live at home, and save their money so they can buy a place to live when they move? Why move out to pay a landlord for a place to live? How will they ever achieve the American dream of home ownership? If kids are working hard and saving, what's the advantage of moving out? There are other ways to achieve a sense of dignity and independence than throwing money away at rent every month. Oh, boy. Well, are you sure your name's not Karen? because that sounds a little woke to me i mean this is why we have so many snowflakes because of this woman has raised snowflakes that's my part of the answer i think that's it okay so all right so okay okay so it's not a math at that point it's not a math issue because there's something about and she says there's other ways to have dignity and independence maybe to a degree but there's also something about being a full what they clean their room they're cleaning their room you know uh when our maid service came in they commented about our oldest son jimmy about his toilet was spotless jimmy he's doing great mom way to go i mean this whole question is so i'm not listen this is pathetic and questions plural there's like she's very mad all right i'll break this oh well she's getting me mad okay here we go why do you encourage kids to move out of their parents home so young at any point on the show has any one of us ever recommended that some kid move out in their teens the answer to that is no pull the archives we're talking about people that are out of college and are old enough and we do to live on their own and they have a job and we say for a and no something they don't have a job they need to move out and for a season it's okay we're not like hardcore about it we are not but There is a point that people that live with their parents for an endless amount of time to, quote, unquote, just save money, you lose the life lessons.

57:45Rachel Cruze:You lose life. You lose. And the dating thing, too, Ken. I always go back to that. Could you imagine? 26-year-old guy. And you're like, okay, where should we go after dinner? You want to go see a movie? You got to go to my parents' house. There was a movie about this with Matthew McConaughey and Sarah Jessica Parker, one of my all-time favorite rom-coms, incidentally. Matthew McConaughey, what a chimp. And the whole thing is that the parents didn't want him to leave. And let me tell you something about Renee. Renee doesn't want her kids to leave. And so it's all in here. Let me go with this one.

58:16This is my favorite one here. Why move out only to pay a landlord for a place to live? Because that's what every other freaking American does until they can afford a home. And it's called personal responsibility. But no, there are other ways to achieve a sense of dignity and independence. this i mean this has got a little bit of like ben franklin to it like she's really pinning this away and then uh uh then throwing your money away on rent every month and i'm gonna let you because you're so much nicer than me why do we think that renting is not throwing money away yeah i know i

58:52Rachel Cruze:want you to say more you're buying time you don't own it so you're not like responsible for every expense and home ownership is expensive so rent for a little bit yeah there there's no dignity or independence if you can afford to move out and you got a job and just come on i'm so tired of all of a short period of time i'm okay with it right like if you graduate college you need six months at home to figure out a place to live like i get that like that is fine it's not we're not that legalistic about it but this endless amount to just save money and i'm gonna go live and my parents until I'm 26, 27.

59:32And by the way, Renee says that she goes until they have enough for a down payment. Well, okay, let's run the numbers on that. That's not a two year play.

59:39Rachel Cruze:No. Just if you look at housing. So that's why some of you who are hearing me and you're now offended by me, one, I don't care. And two, I'm actually basing on real numbers. Based on this woman's question, you do not have a one year or a year and a half or two year scenario. This is going to be years in the making with them living in the nest. And this is the real issue. A lot of parents don't want their kids to leave. Yeah. Because they don't. Now, now I'm really going to - Oh, I can't wait. You know why? Codependence? What? It's a form of codependence, but they do not like the life that they will have when the kids are gone.

1:00:16Rachel Cruze:They're holding on for their own sake. They are worried about what life is like with their spouse when the kiddos are gone. They have, I'm just telling you, that's what it is. And those little moms, which I'm a mom of a little boy. I get it. You want Charles living with you when he's 24? Well, not for his sake, but I do help him a lot more than I help my girls at this sake. Why is that? I don't know. He's just so sweet. Your girls are darling, but why do you Prince Charles here? I don't know. It's a mother-son thing. I don't know. But I will go above and beyond for him more so than the girls. Bottom line is we don't kick people out.

1:00:51It's not our decision. We're just hosting a show that you listen to. You do what you want. but we don't tell people to kick their kids out.

1:00:59Rachel Cruze:And I think one of the top three for me, besides the, it's the romantic relationships. I'm not going to lie. That it's one of the, I think it's a very unattractive thing. What do you mean? If you were, if I was single and dating. Oh yeah. You know what I'm saying? And the dude's living with his parents? Yeah, yeah. And vice versa, I don't know. You might as well have a giant sweatshirt that says loser on it. Which by the way, based on the last call, I'm going to circle back to this because there are people that are watching and listening. I'm going to be serious for a moment. OK, there are people that are watching, listen to us.

1:01:28And we are we we blown away that you let us into your ears and give you advice. But I want to say this just because I'm I'm now I'm that guy. I love it. Go, Ken. I'm 51. If you are a woman and you are single right now and you are dating a dude who you are attracted to, I don't care what the reasons are. but you know somewhere in your gut that he doesn't have his act together. Would you please have the dignity to press pause and put it on the line for him and go, I'm concerned because if you follow your heart and don't listen to your gut and you marry a loser or you have a baby with a loser because you're not responsible enough to protect that romantic moment, you are going to pay big time financial and emotional consequences so we just don't say it enough i just want to go listen ladies listen to your heart get some guys in i mean to your gut and get some people in your life who'll go he's a really attractive charismatic loser but it's the last word that's the operating work rachel i'm you know i'm saying yeah like i'm not angry but i mean yeah please these romantic decisions lead to massive relationship and

1:02:49Rachel Cruze:financial decisions yes yes please like 100 don't don't hop in the sack with a loser it's this is a great life rule it's all he wanted to say is it not a good rule to live by yeah by the way it goes for guys too probably very old school in that scenario so don't hop a set with a woman that's crazy. Because then you procreate create crazy. And then you're stuck with it. I mean, it's like this shows about winning with money. Here's one of the rules. Don't procreate with crazy. Don't live with somebody who's a loser. You would be surprised at how wealthy you could become. But I do think you, what?

1:03:31Rachel Cruze:Am I right? Well, yes, because we get these calls a lot from the relational side. Yeah, and it's all back to those two rules. And they tell us scenarios and we're like, what are you doing with them? Or her? Like, she sounds terrible or he sounds terrible. And I think either, number one, you just don't have people in your life that are going to say it. Or there's not enough, you're so deep in it that there's no mirror. You can't see out of it. You don't see a difference. You need someone else, which is why they're calling two strangers, right? Which we appreciate. Yeah. By the way, you hear it.

1:04:03Rachel Cruze:Yeah. You hear it in their voice. You go, why are you with them? And they're kind of like, and here's what happens. When you sell your dignity for companionship, you sell your gut, you sell your values, any of those scenarios. When you sell that for that emotional feeling that person provides, you are setting yourself up for relational and financial disaster. so somebody had to say it I think this is Life Skills 101 what I just said there is not new nor is it that deep but boy oh boy is it right common sense not so common anymore not anymore

1:05:23We'll be right back. $3 trainings, new trainings every week this month, and they're hosted by one of our Ramsey personalities. They're going to show you how to stick to a budget and even find$9 ,000 of margin using every dollar so you can get out of debt and start building wealth, and you get to ask questions. So this isn't just like a webinar where they're talking at you. They're going to get to talk with you. Sign up for free at RamseySolutions.com slash webinar, RamseySolutions.com slash webinar. Mark is joining us now in Birmingham. Mark, how can we help?

1:05:57Rachel Cruze:Hey, I appreciate you guys taking my call. How's it going? We're doing well, sir. How are you today? Pretty good, pretty good. So just to get right into it, I'm preparing to get my debt snowball rolling. And I have roughly like$10 ,000 to$11 ,000 a day. It's not credit cards or vehicle payments. It's like just personal debt. How much work did you say? How much? between 10 and 11 000 okay and i have a pay 9600 of it is is um it's the iris i have a payment arrangement okay and the rest is like personal debt okay my wife has student student loans like 23 000 i pay all the bills um i take home like 4 300 a month um and i take care of everything Her money is her money to me.

1:06:48Rachel Cruze:And so my question is, do I focus on just my debt and then move on to the next baby steps and start investing in the emergency fund and then trying to save for a home? Or do I include her debt with mine all at once? You get what I'm saying? Yep, I do know what you're saying. My question to you is why don't you guys combine finances and have a checking account where all of your money goes in and you guys decide how to best use the household money? Just being honest, it's because of the IRS. When we got married, I was an owner-operator. I was driving trucks. I still drive trucks, but at the time I was an owner-operator.

1:07:33Rachel Cruze:and I told her I was being straight up with her like look uh you know I got this issue with the IRS so she didn't want to file jointly because of that and she didn't want to you know kind of I guess jam herself up but uh I do like we do have a joint account where I deposit all the money like and then like she can pay bills out of and stuff like that okay well if you guys combine a checking account that doesn't affect the IRS that's what is it more of a trust issue with her from you that you didn't do what you said you were going to do or you got behind on taxes and she doesn't trust you with her money?

1:08:05Rachel Cruze:Right. It was just me being irresponsible. I mean, it wasn't her money. No, I know. I know. But that's what I'm saying, though, is if you guys combined finances into a checking account and saw it as a household budget, the IRS isn't affected by that. That doesn't change your taxes. So I'm just curious if, yeah, if everything's in the same checking account, that doesn't change your taxes. So even if we file, like even when we're doing our taxes. Well, how you file your taxes would be one thing. But you guys, where your income goes, your paychecks, where they go when you're paid, the IRS doesn't care about that.

1:08:38Rachel Cruze:So if you guys are in one account, you're a household account. Now, how you file your taxes, whether individual or married filing jointly, that's different. So what I would suggest you guys do, Mark, just from a relational standpoint, what we have found is that couples who combine everything, what that shows is number one, that we are a team. And this household that we are running together as a married couple, you get further with your financial goals faster, and you actually end up having a better marriage because of it. Because you lean on each other, you trust each other, communications opened, and you see yourselves as one.

1:09:18Rachel Cruze:So there's a financial benefit to it, but there's also a relational emotional benefit to say, yeah, we're, we're married. Like when we said yes and I do and put rings on and created this covenant between us, we're sharing our lives. Like this is everything, you know, we are all in this together. So that may take some conversations to kind of get her around to that idea, but that would be the ultimate goal for me, for you guys, Mark, is to say, yes, we are one. And so how, so if that was the case, you bring home 43 a month, what does she bring home? she has a small business um she says she makes and produce her own skincare products i don't know how much she makes them i just know like a year is like five between five and ten thousand um like i said i take care of everything so i just kind of like stay out her stay out how much how much she makes ten thousand a year ten to twenty five thousand no no no between five and 10 ,000.

1:10:13Rachel Cruze:A year? Yeah, for her. That's not a lot of money. Yeah, why is she not working? Because we have three kids and another one on the way. Okay, so she's more of a stay-at-home mom. Okay, well, then that means, I mean, honestly, Mark, at that point, it's like 800 bucks a month. So it's not even that much that she's going to have to, quote-unquote, merge with you. You know what I mean? It's you guys together. It's not like she's got a job making$80 ,000 and she's like, this is mine, this is yours, and there's kind of a harder emotional... That's why I just kind of leave it. I just take care of it. I just leave it.

1:10:49Rachel Cruze:Okay, so that's kind of like her fault. Well, that$800 that she makes a month, $8 ,000 to$1 ,000, could be very beneficial in these baby steps, right? So you guys could look at that to say, people go and try to find an extra job to get$1 ,000 a month and as a stay-at-home mom, that's what she's doing which is awesome. It's$9 ,600 dollars right there. So what I would do is I would, the IRS debt needs to be cleaned up first. So the, so the 9 ,600 from the IRS, I would clean that out. We usually say Mark smallest to largest debt, but the IRS gets a pass to the front because we want them out of your lives.

1:11:26Rachel Cruze:So the 9 ,600, I would pay that off. And again, if you guys can work together, you could have this paid off in seven to eight months, just even with, with what she's bringing in. But that gets knocked out and then I would be and then you have what probably about 400 left is that what you said because it was 9600 and you have 10 ,000 right right just personal do it okay so get that 400 cleaned up um and then yes and then you guys together attack that 23 ,000 of her student loans so I want your household debt free and then we will move on to a household emergency fund of three to six months of expenses.

1:12:06Rachel Cruze:So, okay, so for you, Mark, how much, so you bring home 4 ,300. How much is rent or mortgage? How much are you guys paying in that a month? Yeah, I'm renting right now and it's 1320. 1320, okay. All right, that's good. Yep, so yeah, this is, and honestly too, Mark, I mean, this idea of getting out of debt and getting this emergency fund in place, if you've been listening to us any amount of time, I mean, it is scorched earth. It is extra jobs. It is like getting this done ASAP really, really, really, really, really fast. Mark, on that point, what do you do for a living? I drive trucks. Okay. Is that skill, is there a way for you to pick up a decent amount of hours where it's actually going to make a difference just with the truck driving skill?

1:12:57Rachel Cruze:I mean, not a good job. I do something on the side, but it's not something I report. I didn't really include it in my overall. Okay. What do you do on the side? What do you do on the side and how much? It's like waste management or something like, you know, like junk removal type stuff. I have a pickup truck. Yeah. If I'm hustling like I should, then I could make like$2 ,000 a month. $2 ,000? That's great, Mark. Mark, buddy, that's the play. Because, listen, your wife's busy, man. She's got two and one on the way. And, you know, there's just not a whole lot of margin there. and that's something you all decided.

1:13:33Love that. $2 ,000 a month could turn into$4 ,000 a month if you're hustling and you figure out a way to scale yourself. I like that play a lot. That's good. You know?

1:13:47Rachel Cruze:Yeah, for sure. Like, Mark, I'm telling you, that's a great opportunity. See, not like— And you're a hard worker. You are. I appreciate that about you, Mark. I mean, you're not scared of hard work. Love it, Mark. Get after it, man. and then scale yourself, you know? Him like own his own thing one day. That's what I'm getting at, Mark. Maybe surprise where this could go, you know? Yeah, you're making$4 ,300 driving trucks. And like Ken's saying, if you could make$4 ,000 doing this, I mean. I'd find some high school guys, some college guys in the summer that want some good money hourly, and you're just loading them up.

1:14:22No pun intended.

1:14:23Rachel Cruze:That could be fun. That's a fun dream. Sit down with your wife tonight, Mark. We're going to give you every dollar. And you guys create a household budget. both of your incomes go in and just start to dream. Seriously, dream how fast can we get out of direct debt? What would it look like for Mark to own his own business? I like it.

1:15:18All right, let's go to Susan in Missouri. Susan, how can we help?

1:15:23Rachel Cruze:Yes, thank you so much for having me on the show today. My boyfriend and I are going to be starting FPUs soon, and we're both really excited. When we start this, my boyfriend's going to be able to knock out the very little debt he has just right out of his checking account and probably be in about 75 % into a six-month emergency fund. Wow, great. Yeah, he's doing wonderful. Me, unfortunately, not that great. I got divorced about eight years ago, and I was just in a bad place. I relied heavily on debt and credit cards, and I've got about$90 ,000 in debt. Okay. 57 of that's student loans. I've got a vehicle loan for$17 ,000, and the rest is like a personal loan, and I got about$5 ,000 on a credit card I'm still working on.

1:16:11Rachel Cruze:Okay. We've got some short-term and long-term goals together. Our short-term goal is we want me to be able to stay at home with a baby someday. and given my age we are actually seeing a fertility doctor now for some help with conceiving and my boyfriend wants to help me pay off my debt and make sure we're in the place for me to stay at home when that when our prayers are answered and i know we aren't married yet but it's definitely happening soon sooner than later he asked me my ring size like it's gonna happen so i didn't know with our given situation, would this be okay? No. Yeah. Can you explain?

1:16:49Rachel Cruze:I tried to explain it to him last night and I, and I know I can't articulate it good enough. Okay. So wait a second. This is his idea? He, yes, he wants to help me. And he's been, I mean, he's been such a blessing to my daughter and I, like I have a 12 year old. So let me ask you, what did you say to him i want to know what susan tried to explain so you knew we were going to say no didn't you oh oh i definitely knew you guys were saying no i'm very glad i'm actually talking to you all in that dave tell us why we are so nice i'm kidding susan no no but i love his advice i love it all i know so rachel she's gone okay so what what was your explanation give us the summary of how you explained why the answer is no.

1:17:37Rachel Cruze:I just know the data shows that, you know, when you're married, you're, you're, the data just shows that. See, I can't articulate it very well. Um, and just biblically, biblically. Okay. But then also on my side, I did all the right things that first marriage and it still didn't work. And I'm like, I'm happy. I'm safe. I'm secure. Like I'm not, I don't want to push it too much. I mean, I'm mentioning it every once in a while. Like, hey, we've been together three and a half years. Yeah, and y 'all are seeing a fertility specialist, Susan. I'm like, you guys are about to start a family. We got the cart literally before the horse.

1:18:14Rachel Cruze:You're not crazy. You're not like out of the blue. I feel like marriage is a good next step. Yeah, he actually ringside. I only married him last year with a bread tie. There you go. Okay. I like that. So there's a couple of big events happening in your lives. And you called us. So we'll give you our thoughts. Ken, I'll give you mine. I already said no. And if you disagree with what I'm about to say, my order of events. I like this. I don't mind you seeing a fertility specialist and be talking through, but I would not be going forward with anything big decision wise until you're married. And so, because we've talked to already one person on the show that has a six month old with a fiance who she's about to break up with, I think, because Ken was like, he's a loser.

1:18:57Rachel Cruze:He's terrible. He's not great. And I know your fiance or your boyfriend is different. But I'm just saying life happens. Things happen. We get calls on the show all the time. And it's just it's relationships that end up. Why are you OK? I'm sorry. It's quick. I thought I was going to agree with you. I'm not sure I'm on board with her going through the fertility doctor conversation without a ring on her finger. My eggs are dying. I know. So he needs to step up. Tell him that. I know. Well, I'm OK with them interviewing doctors. and like asking the question because they're about to be engaged. I wouldn't go forward.

1:19:34Rachel Cruze:If she wants to freeze her eggs, she can. But I wouldn't actually do anything fertility-wise until they're married. My concern is if you go do that, it's a slippery slope. It could be. So y 'all need to get married, Susan. So married, baby, and then, well, married, combined finances, baby. And the baby finance thing can happen right away, okay? That's right. So what I would do if I were you guys is to say, and hopefully out loud y 'all are saying yes we're going to get married right like that's a conversation that's being said um and you know i know he asked for a ring but did you guys say like oh yeah by the end of the year we'll be married like do y 'all have a timeline um no not really i mean we so we need a timeline the other night and we don't need anything big like that's great so so we need a timeline i could marry you guys on the show this is why i should get ordained ken really wants to marry someone i gotta do okay so y 'all need to make it this is what i I would do Nashville now.

1:20:28Rachel Cruze:So number one, I would do timeline of wedding. End of the year. I don't know. It's August. By December, we're getting married, okay? Yeah. And then in December, financially, where's everyone at? In December, he has paid off his debt. In December, he's going to have, I'm making this up, Susan,$30 ,000 of debt. Or I'm sorry, of cash. $40 ,000 in his emergency fund. I don't know. He's going to have this. Susan's going to have worked, and Susan is going to pay off her credit card debt by December. Yeah, 5K in credit card debt. Susan's going to be kind of working through the next debt. Like, you know, where are you going to be, Susan, in December?

1:21:04Rachel Cruze:And then when you guys get married, now how much of the money that he has saved? Because he's going to go right back to baby step two once you guys say I do. And you guys are going to work to pay off the rest of your debt. But he will use his savings to do that after you're married. How much does he have? Okay. He's probably got$20 ,000,$25 ,000 saved up now. Okay, so by December. What's your car worth? I know you owe$17. Well, I don't know. It's probably worth about as much as I owe now. Okay. And what do you guys make a year combined? He actually just had to take a pay cut with a promotion, which is crappy, but it's okay.

1:21:42Rachel Cruze:That's not a promotion. He makes about$95 now. Do what? Yeah. $95. He makes about$95 now. Okay, what do you make? And then I'm going to be making probably around$45 if I get to keep the overtime I've been putting in. if not maybe 40. What do you do? I'm actually working at just like a manufacturing plant, making brackets right now. It pays better than anything. I went to school, got a bachelor's degree, but I have no idea what to do with it. What did you get a bachelor's degree in? Yeah, well, I got you. I'm going to give you. I wanted to be a teacher. And then last minute, I was like, I don't want to be a teacher.

1:22:18Rachel Cruze:And so I asked my advisor, what can I do with the credits I have to still graduate. And so I have interdisciplinary studies. The biggest crock or crap in the history of education. Yeah. Yeah, I got it. Okay. I should have just never went to college. Hey, can I give you a pre-wedding gift? I'm going to give you my book, Find the Work You're Wired to Do. It has the Get Clear Assessment in it. It only takes about 18 to 20 minutes. Please take it. I promise you. I promise you it'll give you some clarity going forward. and if we got to get you back on the show another time to talk about your results that's fine but you you need to be figuring out what can i do and i think there's a lot more that you could do than you realize i love by the way i want to applaud you i love that you're in a manufacturing plant and you're putting brackets together i i've never done this before but i'm killing it i don't like it you know what and that made my day actually there's no shame in that no and she wants to stay home eventually with the baby so i hope you guys get married in december i hope you get pregnant and i hope by a year from now make some more brackets and then make some babies yeah there we go and i want y 'all debt free and you can do it all and i that's what i hope for you susan but again the order is really important and where people screw up not just from like a biblical sense right i mean that's that's totally fair but from the data like what you're saying when people mess up this order it it gets it gets really difficult from a financial standpoint to start to win because things happen in life and we want to just safeguard and be wise.

1:23:49Rachel Cruze:This is just being wise. I think some of his I think some of his hesitation is like he just recently kind of got his life together. He's always had amazing work ethic, made six figures, if not close to. But he struggled with addiction. And so, I mean, up until about two and a half years ago, he was spending anywhere from 800 to a thousand a week on his addiction. And so he's been two and a half years clean. He's like, I just want to get better. Which is applicable. Are you all doing premarital counseling? I mean, we're going to. We went to some counseling when he was struggling, and I told him, hey, get clean or I'm gone.

1:24:26Rachel Cruze:Yeah. And he did. That's great. Yeah, so you guys can take your time, but don't jump the baby before the wedding either, okay? Uh-huh. So be wise. Thank you so much. Be wise. Yeah, appreciate you. Wow. I guess I'll get back to my rant earlier. Just be careful, folks. Be careful who we're married.

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1:26:01This is the Ramsey Show, where we help you win with your money, your work, and your relationships. I'm Ken Coleman, the lovely, the talented. Rachel Cruz joins me. 888-825-5225. We're here for you. Let's get going. We've got Gary. I hope I'm saying that right in California. Gary, how can we help?

1:26:22Rachel Cruze:Yes, you did say that right. Well, you know I'm hooked on phonics. A lot of people don't know this, but a lot of hard work there, Rachel. How can we help today? So I think we're going to continue the same with marriage. um but it's not my oh it's not yours okay my marriage no it's good my mom so yeah yeah so um i'm gonna try to make it very clear because it's kind of a messy situation but my mom remarried when i was 10 and they broke up within um the same year and they've kept us on and off relationship of like i help you you help me but totally no benefits um and that just bled in over the last 30 years can you tell us real quick what does that mean on they help each other no benefit financially financially like my mom's co-signed for cars um filled out forms for him he'll give her rights places um so everything but oh everything but cats and dogs i see i got you Okay.

1:27:28Friends, no benefits. That's what you're saying.

1:27:31Rachel Cruze:Yeah. Well, then he went and adopted a son when I was 20 years old. So that was about 20 years ago. And she became the babysitter. This is just an absolutely zero boundaries, weird situation. We got it. Yes. Okay. Yes. So I decided, my mom did too, but for her own reasons, I decided about a year and a half ago to no longer be active in their lives because there's no boundaries. And, you know, my husband and I worked through the baby steps years ago when we've worked hard to get to where we're at. We're not wealthy, but we're very comfortable. Good. And I don't know. I mean, they've never asked me for money, but they just gave me a snapshot of their financial picture.

1:28:18Rachel Cruze:They're there on my stepdad's on disability and they live in housing and they don't want to help themselves. Not together, correct? Are they living together? Yeah, yeah, because it's his son. So they live together. Not my mom. Not my mom. Okay. The stepdad and the son. Okay, I'm sorry. Okay, all right. Sorry, I was in the same confusion. Okay, all right. Yeah, sorry. No, you're good. You're good. um so she's recently just not deciding to help him with with stuff and yeah so she's put up a boundary and so what's what's the question for you so his his stepson who considers me his big sister which i feel really bad about because i don't feel the same um reaches out every so often wants that relationship begs us to call and speak with him and for me i'm just i their financial storm, their emotional storm keeps them bleeding over into our lives.

1:29:15And I just, I can't carry

1:29:17Rachel Cruze:it anymore. And I don't know, as a Christian, like that's really hard for me to accept that it's okay, but it feels mean. Okay. I love your heart. Let me ask this. How is it, how is the, your stepdad and the steps and his son, how is their financial situation bleeding over into your life, you and your husband, how is that specifically happening? So one big, and what made me really make the decision just to at least take a break at the very least, um, I, I helped them find housing, a place that accepts housing. And I got it through a friend's mom. Um, they broke the rules and they got evicted and this is in the middle of tax season.

1:30:02Rachel Cruze:I'm a prepare he's demanding that i go find him and you okay okay got it that's not my problem you broke the rules yeah i don't even have time even if i wanted right i'm in the busiest season of my entire career yeah now okay i just wanted to know uh yeah i i um and this is the stepdad that did this and not technically even your stepdad right i mean like there's not even like a legal i mean they haven't even been together for 20 30 years and when they were it wasn't even it was within a year yeah um it sounds like your mom's unhealthy relationship with him has now become your unhealthy relationship with this man you know what i mean it's not even like yes but now the stepdad or whatever this dude whatever we're going to call him he he has honored the boundary but it sounds like his son is the one that's just calling you just relationally how old is he the son he's now 19 um does he ask for money no no is he manipulative in the middle yeah but is he manipulative in any way?

1:31:02Rachel Cruze:I think emotionally because he's like, can you call and talk to him? He really wants to talk to you. He's sad. He's playing the party over it. The triangle. I knew there was a reason. And he probably isn't meaning to. He didn't know. He's a 19-year-old kid who grew up with his dad. I'm like, he doesn't know any better. Well, Rachel's probably better at this, so I'll get out of her way. Here's the thing. I think it's okay for you to tell the young man why you want to put a boundary up. And I think you just, I don't think you smooth talk it. I think you just go, Hey, you're stuck in the middle and I'm sorry.

1:31:40Um, this is not your fault, but, and I don't want to say anything that makes your, your, your dad look bad for my reasons. It has nothing to do with you. I need a boundary of separation, um, in talking to you about the family stuff because if he were to just call you and probably say hey how's how's everybody doing and it was just relational i have a hunch that you might be okay with that correct

1:32:11Rachel Cruze:yeah but you might no i don't think she really cares i mean i don't think she cares okay great i mean that doesn't make you a bad person i just think it's this random guy that your mom's attached She adopts this kid. And now Jerry's like, what is happening? This is not my life. I can't have a relationship with you. Just say, I can't have a relationship with you. And I'm really sorry for where I'm at in my life. You don't have to explain it, by the way. Because he's not going to like it. That's why I was mining to see. Is it that you just don't like when he talks about the dad stuff? Because that's...

1:32:42Right.

1:32:43Rachel Cruze:That's right. That's right. But if it's just, I don't need this relationship, you tell him. There's a great book. I don't know if we have it. Do we have Boundaries by Henry Cloud on site? We do not. You need to get the book Boundaries by our good friend, Dr. Henry Cloud. I'll tell you what, while you're at it, by Necessary Endings. Read both of those books together, and he will literally, in that book, coach you through it. Jerry, do you and your husband have kids? Yeah, we have a 10-year-old and a 4-year-old. Okay. Man. What do you think? Was that too harsh? No, I don't think it's too harsh. I mean, I think there has to be a conversation.

1:33:17Rachel Cruze:I think it would be cruel to just ghost him, right? I mean, I think you do have to tell him and just tell him the situation, Jerry. Like, hey, listen, I just, you know, and it's going to be awkward. It's going to be hard. Write it out if you have to, to kind of stick to a script because you feel bad for the kid, right? And you may, Jerry, and I probably wouldn't make this promise, but in your heart, you know, you may come around in two to three years and who knows what his story unfolds. and you guys may end up having a relationship and you guys may be able to help them and show him what a healthy life looks like between two married people and kids.

1:33:57Rachel Cruze:I mean, I don't know, but that's not your responsibility. So hear me say that. You don't have responsibility in this. This is strings from your mom's. That's the string to hear. Yes, from your mom's unhealthy relationships that have woven into your life and to cut those is totally fair. But I think, too, having the heart and the spirit to say, go. God, if there is a place in the future and if I'm supposed to be in his life, continue to open doors, soften my heart. And you may have a change of heart later in life. But right now you've got two kids. You're both working full time. And, yeah, I think that that's fair.

1:34:33Rachel Cruze:It's going to be an awkward, hard conversation. We're with you, Gary. But I would say it. You're a good person. Do what's right for you.

1:34:49Does having more money and less stress sound nice, but feel impossible? Well, in my brand new book, Breaking Free from Broke, I share my story of going from broke to millionaire and exactly how I did it. You'll learn about the money traps and cultural lies out there designed to keep you brainwashed and stressed out, from credit card schemes to mortgage myths to investing traps. So if you're not where you want to be financially, I can help you finally get ahead. You can get Breaking Free from Broke today at RamseySolutions.com slash store. That's RamseySolutions.com slash store.

1:35:35Okay, folks, big news. Just, boy, I guess it was Tuesday earlier this week. We launched the Ramsey Show Live. That means we're going out on the road, taking the show to Chicago and Orlando. And I've got right here, fresh off the presses, this is real paper. It's Ken's favorite thing to do. It's my favorite sound of all time. Yes. Team hates it.

1:36:00Rachel Cruze:The listeners hate it, but Ken does it. You know what? The listeners don't. Yeah, they do. They comment, Ken. Do they really? I think someone said they comment about the noise. Is this true? I'm not even going to do it. I'm sorry, Rush Limbaugh made it famous. I don't care. I like it. But Orlando and Chicago both sold out. Oh, they're done. We're going two cities, and they are sold out. So if you wanted to see us in Chicago on the 30th of September, sold out. Orlando sold out. So here's what we want to know. And when we posted, George and you and I are in Chicago together, George, John, Jade in Orlando.

1:36:39and when we posted our social media thing, it was fun. People were jumping in the comments telling us what city they wanted to come to. So here it is. Where do you want us to come to next? Where do you want? You got to tell us. Give us some feedback. Let us know in the comments. You want us to come to the Big Apple? We'll go. We like it. Start spreading the news. A little San Diego? I'm leaving today. A little. No bugs in San Diego. I like San Diego.

1:37:00Rachel Cruze:We'll go San Diego. Dallas? We'll go Phoenix. Oh, I love Phoenix. We can go Phoenix. Listen, get a good football team. Maybe I go to Dallas. All right. Sorry. That was unnecessary. Vegas? We can see the Backstreet Boys. Backstreet's back all right. They launched more dates in February. Of all the shows to see in Vegas, that's not one I would choose. It will change your life. I remember that era. It was a good era. It was a good era. But I don't know that I'd want to see that one. But I don't know. I'll play you some videos at the break. Okay. Yeah, Rachel just returned. I'll bring you in. By the way, girls trip.

1:37:36So go to RamseySolutions.com slash events and click on the link or click on the link of the show notes. And we want you to tell us this is your chance to vote, America. Do you want us to come to your city? And who wouldn't want me and Rachel and George to come do what we do? It's just going to be so much fun. I can't wait. By the way, fun story. We posted that we were coming to Chicago and I put on there, bring the deep dish. in the video. And can I tell you, Malnati's is bringing deep dish pizza to the Chicago show. They reached out. So this could turn into a thing where we go to a city and I basically beg for free food because I'm not above it.

1:38:22I like free food. Ken likes free stuff. I do like the free stuff. I can be bought. If anybody's wondering, I can. So there you go. It's going to be a lot of fun. And what cities, is there a city you would like to go to? If Rachel, what would be your top three?

1:38:38Rachel Cruze:I'll go back to Vegas. Vegas is one. Give me two more. Give me Vegas. I'll go New York. New York City. I like that. And let's go Kansas City. Make it a little Taylor spotting. Really? I don't know. With Travis. I don't know. Nobody wants to go to Kansas City. Kansas City is a great city. It's a great city. It's a great city. I just wanted to create some fake controversy. I love Kansas City. Barbecue's amazing. love kansas city love to go there everybody don't get offended i was just kidding oh packers oh they want us to go green bay now that one i might have to actually say no to who green bay there's like one thing to do i know i'm giving him a hard time absolutely giving him a hard time absolutely offensive to people sitting right there kid i kid but it's not a top five right i'm gonna go maybe my fourth i'm gonna go uh new york i'm gonna go miami ah great and um let's go northeast i love boston that's my three just to mix it up we're already in new york we're kind of already northeast dude now you're getting in hot water you don't tell bostonians that new york and boston are two they're just very different cities one other different cities but you the region is the same what's easier to get there we do new york one night going up to boston they have some chowder okay what they're telling us to go to callers come on you're talking too long i'm really not it's the end of the week it's fine america loves it andrew is up in jacksonville andrew how can we help um my father is uh in bad health and he has a vehicle loan um he he has not driven in a few months and he is now confirmed that he's probably never going to drive again.

1:40:25Rachel Cruze:I'm sorry, Andrew. Thank you. He owes$16 ,800 on it. I've taken it to a few lots. CarMax offered like$9 ,000. My mother, who is in good health, is a co-borrower on it, but she has her own vehicle that's working fine. And so in situations like this, what do you do with this vehicle? Well, I wonder what a, have you Kelly Blue booked it? Because your CarMax and all those other places and mostly dealers, they'll try to buy it at wholesale. Yeah. Have you, Kelly Blue, booked it? I have not. Okay. I would do that next. You're probably still going to be underwater for it. He probably will. Does he have any other assets?

1:41:10Rachel Cruze:What kind of money do your parents have?

1:41:16Rachel Cruze:They're well off, I would say. I mean, I don't really know their financial situation. Okay. He's retired. He has a really good life insurance policy. The medical team told us he has three to six months. Oh, my gosh, Andrew. I'm sorry. I guess in this case, I would just choose the least amount of effort. At this point, you just don't want him, your mom, burning any calories of effort on something like that. With three to six months to go. For sure. If they've got cash. cash yeah so i would just i mean if they have five six thousand dollars i would just pay the difference and get rid of the car and just be done yeah gotcha be done with it yeah okay um because because after he passes i mean that debt will be still owed right like it's gonna have to true up with his estate and everything um so you'll have to deal with it one way or the other so if they do have the cash um but i would go private sale and again andrew i would probably to ken's point put that maybe on you or one of your siblings to help sell yeah sure private party yeah um and then yeah just take some of their cash and just do the difference yeah okay yeah thank you because again i i this is all yeah does he um but he has he has life insurance in place how old is he 76 76 okay and your mom are they do you as their son and family do you guys know you said you don't really know their financial situation have you guys had any conversations just I just know with working with families after someone passes and dealing with the estate and dealing with passwords and I mean it's just there's a lot of information that happens and I just want to make sure you guys are as well informed just so that the grieving process um goes as you know simple as as possible without muddying with money and financial issues right thank you for that well So our next step is we have scheduled some time with an attorney next week.

1:43:18Okay. I do know that there is a trust, but we can't find dad's will. So we're kind of going through that process. But I know that his life insurance policy will pretty much take care of my mother and everything for the remainder of her life.

1:43:35Rachel Cruze:But, you know, I mean, like this, like, again, this vehicle thing is kind of small, small things. things but it's a detail and I just didn't know what to do with it yep yep so yeah that's what I would do and if you guys can't find the will if there has to be another one put in place I would because just going through probate and everything it just makes that that whole situation smoother as much documentation as you guys can have but I hate that this even has to be a conversation for you all I'm so sorry I understand but you know what it's uh I hope what I hope this conversation that we're having right now helps somebody else who's listening.

1:44:10Rachel Cruze:Yep. Amen. I appreciate that. Andrew, you're a strong young man. So sorry. I think at this stage, it's getting all the ducks lined up like we've been talking about, and then you and family handle as much of that as you can so that, you know, quality of life is as good as it can be, and let's celebrate. I hate that you're going through this. I really do. Thank you. Yeah, thanks for coming. We're at peace because he's at peace. that's a gift yeah that's good to know wow thank you for calling and sharing that

1:45:24Rachel Cruze:Hey guys, Rachel Cruz here with a big announcement. The Ramsey Show Live is going on tour. This is your chance to no longer just listen on your daily commute, but be in the room where life change happens, We're removing the wall between caller and audience so you can take part in money confessions, hot takes, and more. Plus, you'll hear live callers get answers to their pressing questions. I'll be in Chicago on September 30th alongside George Camel and Ken Coleman. Then George, Jade Warshaw, and Dr. John Deloney will be in Orlando on October 2nd. Tickets start at$39 and are limited to just 300 seats in each city.

1:46:02Rachel Cruze:So don't wait, Especially if you want one of the 50 VIP tickets that includes a meet and greet, the best seats in the house, and more. It'll be a night full of hope, community, and the kind of energy you can only get in person. Get your tickets today at ramsaysolutions.com slash the Ramsey Show Live. Or just click the link in the show notes.

1:46:38All right, let's go to the debt-free stage in the lobby. And we've got Michael and Stacey joining us. Hi, guys. How are you? Hey, Ken. Hey, Rachel. How are you? Doing well. Where are you guys from? Maryland. We're from Calvert County, Maryland, right outside Washington, D.C. Okay. Very nice. Right there inside the Beltway. That's right. Okay. Very nice. Okay. Well, tell us. You're here to do a debt-free scream, so give us the stats. How much did you pay off?

1:47:02Rachel Cruze:we paid off six hundred and fifty one thousand dollars oh my gosh in about seven years yeah wow okay all right and what was the range of income uh we started around two hundred thousand um and then um what was it we went up to 346 346 um and then when we paid off the house back down back down to 223 oh my gosh so the house was part of it we had a feeling you gave away the well i know No, no. We figured. I was getting there. With that much money. If you said you had$600 ,000 of credit card debt, I would have owed a little bit. I've heard that on the show before. Just kidding. I'm kidding. Okay, but the house, you guys.

1:47:44Rachel Cruze:Unbelievable. Is that all the house or was there any consumer debt in that number? So we had a paid for rental. Okay. I'm sorry. We didn't have a paid for rental. We had a rental for$220 ,000. We had student loans for$20 ,000. Okay. Credit card,$11 ,000. Second mortgage for$60 ,000. The home was$340 ,000. Okay. Yeah. But half of it was, yeah, everything else. Look at you. How incredible. In seven years. Dave normally says, I'm looking at weird people, but I don't think you're weird. I actually think you guys look very, very well adjusted. Oh, he's weird? That's funny. Stacey's like - I'm the nerd.

1:48:18Michael's a little weird. I was the nerd. Yeah. For sure. Well, you look fantastic. Oh, man. So what do you guys do for a living? Because this income, this is interesting. $200 to$346 back down to$223. Three. What do you guys do? Yeah. So I'm a retired cop of 27 years. Okay. I got an encore job. So I had the pension coming in plus my encore job. And Stacey was. I was a VP of communications and marketing. Nice. For an association. Nice. So what sort of happened was, you know, we had three incomes. So we had a pension coming in. We had my encore job. Right currently I still have it. I'm a fraud investigator with the federal government.

1:48:58Rachel Cruze:Oh, that's fun. Yeah. And then, you know, her job. So we had three jobs, three incomes coming in. But once we paid off the house, she got to quit her toxic job. Yay, Stacey. Oh, man. How long ago was that? I left. My last day was May 6th. Okay. So this is fresh. Yeah. That's why you look like you're levitating. Very. I'm still not. It feels odd. Like I still haven't. Yeah. You're debt free and toxic company free. That's a that's a double. whammy. That's a double win. Yeah. I'm not sure what I'm going to do with myself. So I just bought your book because I'm like, well, now I'm going to see what else I'm wired for.

1:49:36Rachel Cruze:I'll read. I can tell you. What happened seven years ago that caused you guys to think we want to pay all of this off plus the house, which is crazy. I literally was laying in bed one night and, um, like we make all this money. Where is it all going? You know, and we're in debt. Um, what's going to happen to us in retirement um and i literally it was having like heart palpitations and i i got on i got on the internet like how to get out of debt and guess whose face shows up is your dad that's right papa dave showed up from the google he's winning the algorithm he's winning the algorithm so he was yelling at somebody about you know having a car you know i like the old dave when he's yelling at people but anyways he's nice now but you should be sitting next to him when he A lot of fun.

1:50:22Rachel Cruze:You started watching like YouTube clips. Is that what? Or just. Got hooked on YouTube. Okay. And then, so I had a long commute to work. I worked in Baltimore from, you know, Calvary County to Baltimore. It was like an hour and 15 minutes. And I did that for, you know, quite a long time. By the way, that's literally the highway to hell. Can we agree? That area is just, I mean. It's not, you know, it's not my favorite area, right? I know. You're being very kind. I wasn't a cop at, well, that's a whole other story. Yeah, you have a different perspective on that statement. Listen, I could tell you stories, but I'm going to go past the nine minutes.

1:50:57Keep going. Yeah, but I mean, during that drive, I was introduced to the podcast. I listened to the podcast, and Dave was on my podcast every day for to work and from work. Oh, wow.

1:51:08Rachel Cruze:Oh, my gosh. And that got you fired up. And that was seven years ago. So, yeah, we're talking like 2018-ish. do you so do you come home and tell stacy about this guy who's yelling at people and stacy what was your reaction to this um he kind of got into it before i did he kind of had to convince me but um because i was like oh who is this and what is this you know what you know but the more i started listening to it i was like oh god this makes sense right like this really make sense. And so I kind of got on board. So he was the instigator. I was a little bit hesitant at first, but then I was like, well, yeah, this makes total sense.

1:51:48Rachel Cruze:And then once you started to see the progress, right. And the good things happening, it's like, oh man, this, we could do this, you know, it's working. Yeah. It's working. Yeah. So what do you tell people from your journey is the key to getting out of debt? You know, you know, people come up and say, you know, the budget, Yes, the budget is important. And yes, you know, lifestyle changes and sacrifice is important. But one key thing I think is like people say, oh, obsession. You're obsessed with this. Obsession is not a bad thing. As long as you don't put it before God and your family, you can get obsessed and focused on something to get it done.

1:52:22Like baby steps one, two, and three was like, you know, my hair was on fire. Oh, that's what happened. Well, hold on. That might be a bad analogy. Me and Dave have a lot in common in there. But steps one, two, and three, like super focused, super concentrated on. But steps four, five, and six, it's more like a long distance run. And finally, it's over. This marathon's over.

1:52:44Rachel Cruze:Okay, so how many years was paying off the house? Because you guys paid off, I mean, close to 200, 300 of consumer. And then you went into the house. So how long was that? What was the journey? Honestly, we got rid of consumer debt fairly quickly, like 18 months or something like that. you know yeah and then um the rest of it was all house okay so about the last five years or so was just thrown and what and how did you guys do it because people ask this a lot yeah because people do it different ways did you guys do a specific you know extra mortgage payments like a goal per year or per month like what did that look like so um essentially um any extra money like dave says you have extra money coming to throw it at the house throw it at the house so any overtime money And also, remember, I got another job with the pension coming in.

1:53:31We didn't even touch the pension. We just, and whatever check came in at the beginning of the month, you just went straight to the house. Straight to the house. Extra principal. Extra principal. Yeah. That's nice. And we took our foot off the gas. I mean, baby steps four, five, and six, we took our foot off the gas. Went to, like, vacation and stuff like that. Sure.

1:53:46Rachel Cruze:Yep. Which you should do. Treated yourself a little bit. Yeah, which is great. Yes. Okay. And daughter over here, I see. Yes. She's been part of it. How old is she? She's 14. 14. Yes. Come on up. You're beautiful. I know. Beautiful, beautiful, taller than me. Who is this? Quinn. Quinn. Okay. How old is Quinn? Quinn's 14 years old. Oh my goodness. She doesn't have a mic, so it's going to be hard, but I'll have your parents. What was the process? What was the process? Having a teenager in the house, how did all that work? Was all that, how did the family dynamic work? She was really kind of on board.

1:54:21Rachel Cruze:I mean, she's still a teen, right? She still loves shopping and everything, but we all kind of gave up a little bit and sacrificed a little and um she definitely did her fair share of sacrificing yeah clothing understood the budget yes nails and y 'all talked about it it was open and you as a as a family this was the goal and as a family we're doing this and it was easier to talk about like giving her the perspective of this is why it's going to be worth it 100 % right yes we are baby step millionaires multi million years now. Congratulations on that. Well, you've set a great legacy and a great example for Quinn.

1:54:56And hopefully she'll find a debt-free guy.

1:55:00Rachel Cruze:Oh, she already knows. I'm with you, Dad. I feel you, man. I got it. All right. Well, that is so cool. Well, you guys ready? Is she like the cool teenager? I've got a 16-year-old. Are you going to really scream here or is this going to be cool, Quinn? They're asking if you're going to scream or you'd be too cool to scream. Oh, I'm going to scream. Yes, Quinn. I love it. We'd love a dedicated team. Let's do it. So we've got Michael, Stacy, and Quinn in the Annapolis Beltway area of Maryland. Paid off$651 ,000 over seven years, making from$200 ,000 up to$346 ,000, back down to$223 ,000, and they are free.

1:55:38Let's hear your debt-free scream. Three, two, one. We're debt-free! Yeah! All right. Well done. Very nice. She joined in. So great. How fun.

1:55:54Rachel Cruze:Oh, my gosh. That's a lot of money. A lot of money. And that's a long time. Long time. That's some perseverance right there. Yes. And the obsession, it's what you got to do. You got to stay focused. So great. Oh, and it's what they did. Incredible family. Absolutely incredible.

1:56:40Our scripture of the day comes from Proverbs 17, verse 17. A friend loves at all times, and a brother is born for a time of adversity. And our quote of the day, I think was hijacked by Rachel Cruz, a well-known Swifty. This is from her boyfriend, Travis Kelsey.

1:56:58Rachel Cruze:Oh, from Trav. One of the greatest tight ends of all time. Got to give him some love. He's not just her boyfriend. If you don't care about the guy next to you, he says, one, you're a terrible teammate. Teammate, actually. Two, you're never going to win. There we go. Travis, way to go. Pretty life-changing quote there. Thanks, Travis. Maybe Travis should stick to football and not quotes. I don't know. But it was good. There's a nugget of truth there.

1:57:28Melanie from Connecticut has joined us. Melanie, how can we help?

1:57:34Rachel Cruze:Hi, how are you? We're doing well. What's going on with you today? Good. Good. So I have a concern. I have a situation I've been dealing with for a few years now. and I'm at a point where I don't know I don't think I'm okay with it continuing and I think it will continue and the basics of it is you know how can I get my husband to get our older son to pay for his own bill how old is your son he just turned 21 I've been asking my husband to get him to pay for his own bills nothing else, his own bills since he was 18 he's been fully employed since he was 16 doesn't really manage his money very well gets into unnecessary debt has been having trouble keeping a job my husband and I both have a full time and then do part-time gigs, and he just cannot handle that.

1:58:43Rachel Cruze:He's not a student. And so because the bills are not under his name, when he doesn't have a job or he's underemployed, it doesn't face him because they're under our name. What bills does he have? Car insurance and cell phone. Does he live with you all? He does. Okay. And he's been full-time. So he starts at 16. I feel like it's relevant. So give me a little latitude here. Why is he full-time work at 16 and not in high school? No, no, no, no. He had his part-time job when he was 16. He graduated and started full-time. Gotcha. Because that sounds responsible. I mean, you know what I mean? Like the trajectory sounds good.

1:59:29What kind of work has he been doing?

1:59:32Rachel Cruze:He started with, you know, like coffee shops and mechanic work. That part is okay. The issue I find is that because the bills are not under his name, the actual papers that are coming under his name, he doesn't have the will or willingness or need to pay them. And my husband, you know, ask him to pay him. I remind him. We fight about it. Nothing happens. All right. So let me ask you this. If they're in his name, if he did not pay a cell phone bill, then they would turn the cell service off. Yes? Correct. So why don't we just let that happen?

2:00:14Right. But what can we not get him on his own? Like he doesn't he's not on the family plan. He's on his own plan. He's 21. First of all, he shouldn't be living at home anymore. And I know what's going on here. This is this is a marriage issue. Because your husband is just not willing to make this kid.

2:00:30Rachel Cruze:What's your husband's reasons? What does he say? You know what? I have a lot of compassion for my husband. We took a trip to his home country a few years back, and I know where he comes from. You know, he comes from a lot of need and poverty, and, you know, part of it, I think it has made him the man he is. He's a lovely man, hard worker. He just wants to take care of his family because he's able to now. He wants to. So there's, yeah. So yeah, that makes sense. So I think realizing, yeah. And I will say, Melanie, I'll give you like a little bit of just like breathing room. He's 21. If he was 30, you know what I mean?

2:01:11Rachel Cruze:Like from an age perspective, he's young. He's 21. I agree. He doesn't have his feet up under him from a job standpoint. He didn't go to school. Is that right? No degree, which is fine. I was clarifying. So we need to find, so as parents, And I don't have a 21-year-old, so I will say that. As parents, I would think stepping in and helping him find himself, learning what am I good at. A lot of Ken's material is so good at this. But being an assistant to help him long-term figure out a career path that's going to help him instead of him jumping from coffee shop to coffee shop, let's actually sit down and create a game plan together so he has some stability and direction.

2:01:56Rachel Cruze:and then once that happens, that's good for him from a dignity standpoint, and then we're going to fly, and we're going to have to learn how to be an adult, right? But I don't know. Is he racking up debt with credit cards or anything like that? Nothing crazy. The biggest thing that he has is his car payment, which is pretty high. So a little bit of backstory. Both of our kids, we gave them a car when they were 16, a beat-up car. I think we spent more than$1 ,000 on the cars. Sure. For them to be able to do the part-time job in school, all that stuff. And so he wanted to buy the flash card, and I said no.

2:02:34Rachel Cruze:I said absolutely not. My husband was going to go sign for it. I said no. And so then he still went on and did it when he was about 19. And my husband said, because he was so young, the car insurance was going to be up to the roof. My husband kind of like agreed to put him under our car insurance so it would be a lower rate. And, you know, that's fine for a little while until he gets some, you know, credit X. But he hasn't used your name. Y 'all need some time frames. Y 'all need to put a plan in place. This is just floating around. I agree, but you cannot put a plan in place if you guys aren't in agreement on the plan.

2:03:22And the fundamentals of this plan are, you're very nice. He seems like a very good man. But you guys are not operating from the same system on this situation with this kid, your kid. So you have one view. I think it needs to be this. I think he needs to be doing this. Your husband has a completely different view. And it's understandable. Rachel wrote a great bestselling book. I'm looking at it right now. Know yourself, know your money. In fact, I'm going to give you Rachel's book because I actually want both of you to read this. I think it is actually one of a, it's a fundamental book for couples who aren't on the same page about money.

2:03:59Before you get on the same page, you got to be able to understand each other. He comes from a scarcity view. Yeah, 100%. She wrote a book on it. I'm going to give you the book. I'll let her speak to it. But actually, I'll segue to Rachel, but here's what I'm getting at. This is a marriage problem. In other words, we're just not communicating well and aligned in this particular part of marriage, which is our 21-year-old son. I think getting with a professional therapist where it's safe, everybody's psychologically safe, and we can get to the root of this so that you understand your husband and have – and you do, you have compassion for him, but you need to understand.

2:04:34And then he needs to understand how you feel and then let a professional who's unbiased walk you through where the boundaries need to be here. And then and only then, Rachel, do I think we establish a plan.

2:04:48Rachel Cruze:Yeah. And I think, you know, sitting down and you guys figuring out what's the end goal. And my assumption is, I could be wrong, is that we want our son to be successful in life, right? Be on his own. Like I think every parent, I think, you know, that's the end goal. And so how do we get there? And to Ken's point, how we get there is navigating two totally different routes. And we don't want that. And so for you and your husband, yeah, to sit down. And if you need a third party, bring someone in. Yes, do that. But figuring out, OK, what is the best way to get him from where he is now? Not very responsible, not really holding down a job.

2:05:23Rachel Cruze:He's 21. How do we help assist in helping him flourish as an adult? And I think what Rachel said is so smart. I want to applaud you because I think it's a mix between total tough love and total grace. The husband is all grace and mercy. And you're like... Get him out. He's working at 16. Right. He needs to be paid his insurance at 19. And so I think there is a balance there, Rachel. Yep. Absolutely. Absolutely. But yeah, you and your husband get on that same page. And I think your hearts are both in a good spot. But remember, we wanting to help him, not harm him is the goal. And if you go your husband's route all the way, I think that's more harm than good.

2:06:00So hang on the line. Kelly's going to get you a copy of Rachel's number one bestseller, Know Yourself, Know Your Money. Each of you read it, and I'd share it with your son. Let him read it and figure this thing out. Then we're all on the same page as a family.

2:06:30Up next, we are headed out to Chicago and Orlando for The Ramsey Show Live. Yep, you heard me right. We are taking this show to you. This is going to be everything you love about The Ramsey Show, except you get to be a part of it. Part of what, George? The Ramsey Show Live. Ken, that's what I'm telling them about. Ramsey Show Live in here? Nope, we're doing it on the road. You're going to Chicago with me and Rachel Cruz, September 30th. Are you free? The Windy City. I like it that time of year. You know what else I like, George? I like the deep dish. Oh, okay. Maybe we'll have some deep dish. You mind if I finish the promo?

2:07:03Is that okay with you? Okay. Okay. Appreciate that. Questions and answers, real conversations, and I'm sure a few surprises here and there. George, are you in here talking about TRS Live? I am, Jade, I'm trying to talk about it.

2:07:15Rachel Cruze:Nice, so that means it's actually happening, right? It's happening, if I could tell the people, I think it could actually come to fruition. Listen, just tell me when and where. You don't, no, okay, we're going to Orlando, you're gonna join Dr. John Deloney and I October 2nd. Yes, okay, great, I'm gonna go pack now. Thanks, George. Please, please do that, go, pack. Hey George, speaking of packing, Is this like sweater weather or is it not that cold yet in Chicago? What is happening? Can I please just get to how they buy the tickets? Jeez, I thought it was a good question. Okay. This is not an arena tour.

2:07:49This is a one-night-only event in Chicago and Orlando. General admission is only$39. Plus, there's a VIP experience if you're bougie like that. But here's the thing. There's only 300 seats available. So get your tickets now at ramsysolutions.com slash events. Hey, how come you get to go to both cities? I just go where they tell me, man. Hey, have you been there the entire time? Maybe. Okay, and also, are you reading a children's book? I'm expanding my mind, George. That's how we got those PhDs. Yeah, that's probably where you got that jacket. Okay. See you on the road, John.