You Still Have Time To Change Your Financial Situation

25:31I want a machine that's mine. And even if you pay cash, I still think that cash is better off sitting and growing and stacking and stacking and stacking until it is just not even in the same ballpark of risk to go buy something. I would hold, hold, hold, hold for a long time. It's a very conservative take, but I think it's safe. George? I'm retweeting all of this. I co-signed that with Ken. Riley, what does it cost to get a reasonable used dump trailer that would do the job? Around five to six grand. Where did the$50 ,000 go this month that you made? Okay, so about$30 ,000 of that was cost of doing work, labor, and whatnot.

26:20Okay. And then I'll have around$18 ,000 or so left after everything's said and done. So you could pay cash for a used dump trailer today? I could. Okay, and so have you done the math on the break-even point if you keep renting versus buying a used one in cash today? Because my guess is you'd break even pretty quickly. Yeah. Yeah, if I buy a new dump trailer versus buying a used one, I break even points half the time. Yeah, and I would buy a used one. What's the point of buying a new dump trailer? New and dump in the same sentence is ridiculous already. It makes me itch thinking about it. In fact, I want the nastiest dump trailer on the planet.

27:05Say again? I want the nastiest, oldest dump trailer on the planet. All I want it to do is hold stuff you dump. It's for work. It's not turning eyes at the red light, you know what I mean? But, George, how soon would you buy a dump trail? I don't want to buy that. How long have you been making this kind of money? Say again? How long have you been making this kind of money? It's just been this past month. Okay. And we're growing steadily. Do you offset that cost now into your jobs? What's your quote? Yes, I do. Okay, I have a question. Hang tight, Riley. We're going to act like you're not in the room.

27:39George, why would he ever buy a dump trailer when he can take the rental cost of that and pass it off to his clients? That is true. I mean, there's a world where you go, I can be more competitive if I owned it outright. I don't have to keep adding this expense, and I can lower my prices. That's an option, but I'm with Ken right now. I think it's only been a month. I would let this sit and see what your actual needs are six months from now, and by then you're sitting on$100 ,000 of cash if you do this the right way. and you'll really be able to expand smart instead of just going, well, this was a crazy month.

28:14I'm growing. I got to go get all this equipment. And then you find out I didn't need all this equipment. Because every time you add more equipment to your life, you're also adding some repair and maintenance costs as well. That's right. Insurance costs. There's a lot of other things to factor in here. And be clear, I'm not anti-buying the dump thing. I'm just asking critical questions. Like, I just wanted to make sure that we know that it's the best choice. And if buying the dump thing is the best choice, I say go for it. I just want to critically think through it and go, what's the balance here?

28:44And there's a right time to do it, I'm sure. But the key is just move at the speed of cash, not at the speed of how fast you want the business to grow. And once you have that retained earnings set aside for this, then I would say, all right, let's upgrade as it makes sense strategically. What does it cost per day to rent? About$150. And you're using that, is it seven days a week, four days a week? About two to three days a week.

29:36or have you already graduated? No, I was homeschooled, finished up school early, and I'm still living with my parents. How long have you been doing this business? Five years. Oh, wow. Thirteen. So you started at 13. And give us a range of the clients that are driving this kind of revenue, $50 ,000 a month. Is there some corporate places where you're doing their landscape or is it all personal homes? It's all over the place. We're running ads. Some of them are referrals. So it's a wide range. So you've got residential plus business properties. Yeah. How big of a team is this? We've got two guys full-time, myself and one other, and then I've got a couple buddies that come in part-time whenever we have larger jobs that need to make.

30:28How old are your core guys you just mentioned? uh one is 21 is 19 and another is 19 what are you paying those guys per hour about 20 an hour 25 depending on you know when i'm on the job versus not all right thank you impressive folks parents there you have it i just don't know why we're pressuring our kids to go to college when they don't even know why they're going to college. This kid is on his way to do what he's doing. Riley's been doing it since he's 13 and he just started off with a lawnmower. Now he's got other 19 and 20 year olds and he's paying them $20 to$25 an hour. That's why. And they got no student loan debt.

31:15Just going to leave that there for you.

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32:59All right, let's go to Randy in Los Angeles. Randy, how can we help today? Well, first of all, thank you for taking my call. Very excited to hear your advice and talk to you guys. So our house got caught up in the January LA fires and burned to the ground. Oh, no. Where were you? Yeah, it was horrible. So in Alcadena, the whole community, 6 ,500 homes got destroyed. Yeah. Wow. Very devastating, but now we're in kind of an excitement mode because we're rebuilding. So we're moving past that. Luckily, we had enough insurance. We have a lawsuit with SoCal Edison. That's two or three years down the road.

33:41But we're about to rebuild for$1.6 million. Insurance will probably cover about$1.1 million. SoCal Edison will probably get about$200K, but you can't count on that. So I'm wondering if I should draw from my retirement to cover the delta or looking at other options because it's probably about a$400 ,000 delta to what we have for mature. Was there a mortgage? Yeah, the mortgage is about$631 ,000. We could probably sell the property for about$800K, but we lost$500K in equity. And rebuilding for$1.6K, the property value is going to be really big in four to five years. So I think it would be a financial decision.

34:27Yeah, maybe. I mean, so is the option to sell and walk away with$150K and go elsewhere? Or we rebuild and take on an extra$400K in debt or rob our retirement? Yes, basically those are the options. That's a rock and a hard place if I've ever seen one. How badly are you wanting to rebuild versus just selling for what you can get for it? Well, we're pretty into the Altadena Strong rebuild mentality. I think my retirement has enough to cover that. I'd just like to get your opinion. How much do you have in retirement? About 2.7, all taxable. How old are you? $63. Okay. You said it's all taxable? Yeah, it's in a 401k, deferred comp, and IRA.

35:22Yeah. Got it. So you can withdraw without penalty. You'll just owe taxes on the amount you withdraw. Correct. So the question is, if you deplete$2.7 down to$2.3, will you still be able to retire with dignity when you want to? Does that change your retirement plans? Yeah, I probably have to work another year and a half to do this. Okay, so there's the trade-off. I'm willing to rebuild and eat the cost of withdrawing that, paying the taxes, losing the future growth of that$400 ,000 in order to stay where I'm at and rebuild. And not have a mortgage. Am I understanding that? You'll still have the 631 mortgage?

35:59No, I'll still have the 631 mortgage on top of the rebuild. Okay, I misunderstood. I'm sorry. Okay. So the$400 is just— I don't think I made that clear. Gotcha. Okay. How much do you have in savings now? in savings about 300k oh nice what's the 300k for so the 300k was part of the personal property payout so i don't know if i consider that savings but you know i mean it's liquid cash you have access to instead of that you could actually use taking from your retirement yeah yeah yeah absolutely why not take like 250 you have an emergency fund or is that part of the 300k Yeah, we have about$25K in an emergency fund.

36:40In addition to the$300K? Yes. So why not use the$300K and only take$100K from your retirement? This is what I'm thinking. That's definitely an option. It would be the only option if I'm going to do this. Because if you pop in$300K, you would have taken, or$400K into an investment calculator, that money is going to double every seven years. So at 70, what you're really giving up is not the 400 plus taxes. What you're really giving up is 800 ,000 because you're unplugging all of that growth too. So that's the part I want you to think about. And for that reason, I would use any liquid cash I have because number one, you're not going to unplug the growth.

37:18Number two, you're not going to pay taxes on that. Okay. And how much do you guys make? I make$550. My wife makes$65. Oh, incredible. I mean, you could probably cash flow this thing. How long is it going to take to rebuild? Well, here's the thing. We've got like 300K in ALE, which means that they'll pay our living expenses outside up to 300K. So we could probably delay the build, keep living. So they'll pay for you to rent. So you have rent-free living until the house is done? Correct. I would do that and stack all of your income. This call just kept getting better and better. Randy, buddy. I wouldn't touch any of the money.

38:00No. If you guys are bringing in, I don't know, how much are you bringing in a month? What's your take-home pay right now? Well, about$30 ,000. $30 ,000 a month is your take-home. I guess California taxes make you still poor somehow. Yeah. So could you live off of$5 ,000 and put the other$25 ,000 in savings? You could probably live off of$10 ,000. I was going to say the$5 ,000, George. Like, what are you talking about? Well, if he's living rent-free. Yeah, but he's still in L.A., though, man. I'm just saying. All right. I like it. You guys have no other debt other than the mortgage? Just the mortgage.

38:38We paid off$170K in student loan fees that I didn't know was accruing interest because I didn't take them out, and I didn't understand how they worked. But you guys told me about subsidized, unsubsidized, so I looked into it, and I'm like, whoa. Even though we didn't have to pay, we were stacking up interest. So we paid that off. Okay, good. Well, I'm just saying, you know, you put$20K a month in a high-yield savings account for 18 months, you have close to the amount you need, that delta. Okay. And I imagine it'll take about 18 months to rebuild, right? Yeah, anywhere from 12 to 14 months is what we're getting quoted, and we're going to start probably in March.

39:19Okay. Then this is my game plan. I'm going to stack so much cash with my future income, and then any gap remaining, I'm going to take out of that$300 from that personal property payout you got. And leave your retirement alone. And then thank us later when you retire with$5 million. That's right. So you're not going to hurt your compound interest, and you're not going to get taxed. So don't even think retirement. You've got too sweet of a situation. It's a double win, especially with your income. Once you buried the lead there, going, well, we make$30K a month. That really helps the situation. Yeah.

39:48Yeah. All right, Randy. There you go. I appreciate it. Yeah. I'm feeling pretty good. Sorry for what you've been through. You should. And my goodness, just so proud of you. And I love the idea that you want to be a part of Altadena Strong. And there's something about that, the community rising up together and rebuilding. That's pretty special stuff. So thanks for sharing a bit of your journey with us. That's crazy stuff, George. You know, I was out there in L.A. about a month ago. I went out for a football game with my oldest son, and we drove near certainly the Malibu area just because I wanted to see it with my own eyes.

40:26And that is not a great situation for a lot of people. Randy's got probably one of the better situations. Better case scenario. Yeah, there's some pretty tough stuff going out there. And I bring that up to say you talk a lot about insurance, you know, and I think it makes a lot of sense right now for you to give just a fundamental. fundamental, all right, acts of God or acts of nature, whatever you want to call them, they happen at times and it can absolutely wipe you out. Yeah. People just go, well, whatever happens, insurance will cover it. No, no, no. You got to read the fine print to see what your insurance will and will not cover, especially depending on your state.

41:02And so that's something to look into. And so I reshop every year with my independent insurance broker and she tells me, hey, this is exactly what it will cover, what it won't cover. Do you want to upgrade and get this covered as well? And I go, oh, sweet. I didn't know that. And so just doing a little bit of research can save you a lot of heartache. Because if it's not covered, you need to know you might be on the hook if this event happens. And so in a state like Florida, where flooding is very much possible, they're not going to cover a flood happening. And so people have been devastated when they lose it.

41:30And they go, cool, where's my check? And they go, there's no check. This isn't covered. It's a great point. You know, I remember watching that coverage. That was the most surreal thing I've ever seen, where you could see hot coals literally flying through the air and threatening homes. And I remember thinking, just because of the nature of the work we do, how many of these people, like, once you know your home is gone, that's got to be so, I don't even know. Don't even know how to understand that. The grief process on that alone. Yeah, just the shock. Without the financial implication. Right. But I remember thinking, I hope they're insured.

42:06Because one of the few things that you could take away from something like that is you go, well, this is the worst case scenario, but here's what I know. Because I'm like George, because I know what my insurance covers, I can at least say, hey, I have some clarity. Trauma plus confusion, not fun. You've got to keep up with what the market rate is to build that house today. That's the part you need to keep up with on your home insurance.

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43:56Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio. Alongside George Camel, I'm Ken Coleman. So glad you're with us. 888-825-5225 is the phone number. Love to hear from you. Emily is up in Dallas, Texas. Emily, how can we help today? Hi. My husband and I have been married for 14 years. And I have worked in the beginning. Kids came along. I stayed home. But this entire time, he has always been in control of finances. And I don't even know the basic skills. I never knew the password or how much money was going in and out and all that. And I've asked a few times and I was not given any access or clear answer.

44:48What's his answer been when you share this very calmly and say, hey, I've never really been involved. I'd love to learn. I'd love to be a part of this. What does he say? Just like never showing me how to do it, you know? Is it defensive? Is it combative? Does he just shut it down? Does he go, you shouldn't need to worry about that? He's just like, you know, just like a very big answer. Like he would just not like show me okay this is the password this is how you do it you know this is what so just like never showing it and how does that make you feel um not equal have you told him this huh have you told him that yeah and how does he how does he respond to that his response is like oh i have all this showed you you don't want to learn but you're telling him you do and so you know what back in the past i haven't wanted to learn and that's changed now i want to be more involved can you show me it's different than saying give me the passwords now i think that's a different conversation and i think that is part of it my wife has access to all of our accounts but usually she doesn't even bother with the password.

46:07She just goes, hey, can you tell me what we have in savings? And I show her and she goes, oh, okay. And that's it. And so there's total transparency. And usually there's one person who's nerdier and knows all the passwords. And that's me in my house. But if you're saying he's controlling, he's not wanting to show you things, that is a much deeper issue. There's either one of two things, maybe both. He's super controlling or he's hiding something. Yeah. I think, I don't think he's hiding anything. I think you just want to be in control because he thinks he doesn't have the confidence in me. He doesn't think that I can do it right or well.

46:41But you're not even doing anything right now. We're just saying, can you show me, can I have access to, you're not like making investment moves and moving money around. Right, right, right. And so I got a full-time job. I'm a teacher now. And I told him that, hey, you know, I will give you whatever money you need, but I just want to keep this accounts separate only in my name so I can learn how to manage money since I have not learned that in past 14 years. I, you know, whatever we need, you know, I'll just participate, but I just want accountability. I want a transparency. And he's just got really angry and told me that he's removing us from removing me from the our finances and keeping our finances that's not okay that's not unity you don't get married and then decide i don't want you to be a part of this section of my life which affects you directly by the way and if something happened to him today you'd be an alert you have no clue how to access anything you don't know what's where yeah and have you shared that fear on top of you wanting the case that has always been the case Like, I don't know a lot of things because I don't know.

48:02Why do you think he got angry over all this? He's like, you know, it's not your money. It's not our money. It's our money. And it's, you know, and I'm like, okay, yes, it's our money. but you know it's just like I want to make sure that if something happens like for God forbids if something happens to you I have the ability and the skill to manage you know the money and yeah it sounds like it's falling on deaf ears though like you say it and all that makes a lot of sense to just about anybody and he's now gotten angry about it now he's shutting you out and he's like I need to make some changes.

48:48I am removing you from our joint banking account. So this conversation went from, Hey, can I have access? And he went, you know what? I'm removing your access. This is like, sit down and be quiet. You have, you have pushed. I wanted to just get an opinion. Like I don't know. An opinion on what? What specifically can we opine on? Opinion on like who like i i think it's a very extreme it's very extreme yeah he's out of case you guys need marriage counseling sure that my judgment is right and i just wanted to get an opinion of the outsider who doesn't know him and me yeah you're right he's wrong something is really going on and and and uh i'm digging here uh is this a him problem or is there some cultural stuff going on here?

49:39This is a him problem. This is a him problem. Yeah. And I don't even know. Because what I mean by that is, did he come from a culture? Did he grow up in an environment? And I'm not talking about nationality. I'm talking like, did he grow up in a home where this is the way his dad was and the dad before that? And like, it's just, because I guess my point is, it feels like there's more to this than he's just controlling. Now, I could be wrong, but that's what I mean. Is that all he's ever known? Right. When I look at his parents, his parents both manage things equally. Okay. Gotcha. And so, yeah.

50:19And I don't see the same pattern in their marriage. Well, okay. The reason I ask that is because that tells me something. That tells me he's got control issue problems. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's not cultural, in other words, his environment growing up. he's now doing this how do you spend money i'm curious is does he is he upset when you spend money is there you guys i'm guessing there's no budget to be spoken of but if you went and spent a hundred dollars anywhere you wanted to i give him i give him i tell him everything ten dollars i spend i tell him everything he will however go ahead and you know buy an expensive thing without even asking me.

50:59He did that. A thousand dollar purchase didn't even ask me. What did he buy? He bought like, you know, like outdoor something. How would you know if he made a$10 ,000 purchase? Yeah, I wouldn't know. How would you know if he went into$50 ,000 worth of debt? Yeah. Do you guys have debt that you know of? i mean we have a little bit of credit card debt like a little bit of you know i don't i he's not that reckless but um but it's just like i feel like you know he just wants to have control in certain areas and he just doesn't want me to this isn't just money any kind of independence not at all he wants he wants you to be seen sometimes and definitely not heard Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.

51:52Yeah, he wants to give me just a little bit of, you know, freedom to say that, oh, I'm a good husband. Well, I got bad news for you. This needs deep counseling and a real professional. But if he acted the way he did over you just saying, hey, I'd like to be involved in our accounts, I don't know how he's going to act to the old marriage therapy request. I hate to say it, but you're going to have to draw some lines. And right now you might need to go solo. Yeah, I think that's where we are headed. Actually, we are headed to the counseling because I'm being told that I have issues. That's called gaslighting.

52:29Oh, bless.

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54:15All right, Nick is joining us in George Kimmel's old neck of the woods, Boston, Massachusetts. I feel like you should welcome him to the air Boston style. Hey, Nick. What's up, my guy? Howdy. How are you guys doing? Funniest thing is almost nobody in Boston has the accent. Right. Very disappointing. Yeah. How can we help, Nick? No, we hate it. So my mom recently passed. Oh, sorry. How recently? Thank you. About two months ago. Wow. Dude. Oof. Yes. And she worked for the state, and I inherited$340 ,000.

54:57And at that time, everything is very disorganized. She didn't have a will. So I ended up becoming the voluntary administrator because she doesn't have a lot of assets. So the only thing that's getting distributed is life insurance, and now we found out there's a pension as well. And when I came to the$340 ,000, I was being pressured to divide it up between my two younger sisters. So my mom had me when she was a teenager, got the state job, signed up this paperwork for the life insurance back in 2000 and probably forgot about it. and she has the pension that she's divvied up between my siblings, my two sisters, and myself.

55:39So now I'm being pressured to divvy up this money, and I really was on board for that. Who's pressuring you? My grandfather and my mother's ex-boyfriend. Your grandfather, which is presumably your mom's dad. Yes. And then the ex-boyfriend? yeah so my mom originally wanted my youngest sister the 16 year old to go and live with him instead of her father because he's not that great of a man he ended up abusing me and her um when we were younger oh so and he financially abused me so that was the other thing is she doesn't want him having access to my sister's money okay i interrupted you sorry so you were saying i'm I'm feeling pressure, but I did want to give them money.

56:30And then we were taking care of my mom's dog, and the dog attacked me and my two-year-old son. We had to go to the hospital. It was a really traumatic event. Honestly, worst experience in my life. I wouldn't wish that upon anyone. And I wasn't met with any humility or even care for my son. They were making accusations that I instigated the dog attack. after it was proven that I didn't make it up. The sisters? At first. The sisters were? Yes, the sisters. And I'm sorry, did you say a moment ago, I didn't want to give them money or I did want to? I did. You did want to? Okay. Yes. And then the dog incident happens.

57:11They treat you like crap. Yeah, and then it just is a mirroring of my entire childhood where I'm treated like crap by everyone. And I just, I don't want to give someone a hundred plus thousand dollars to treat me like crap the rest of my life. Especially when like literally weeks ago, I was trying to figure out how I'm going to put food on the table. Like I run a small business. And it's, it's a really tough this year. You know, I run a service-based industry. It's a luxury service, to be honest with you, washing windows. So not many people have that money in their pocket this year. So kind of struggling.

57:45and then we come into this money and I'm going to divvy it up. And then I get attacked and they're treating me very poorly, not even caring about my two-year-old son. And then once they find out that there's money involved, one of my sisters has changed her tune and she's now nice. And my mom always said that she was two-faced. And my 16-year-old sister that I was really trying to set a trust up for has gone like no contact with me and everyone says that she hates me. Well, that decision got real easy. So let's walk through the options here. Number one, you don't give them any money, and they continue to not like you.

58:27Right? Option number two, you give them the money, and then you end whatever is left of these relationships. Correct? Yeah. Because nothing's going to salvage the relationship. There's no world where we're all happy now and they're good people. And so just option one, it's going to weigh on you probably to not give them any money, and it might make your life more difficult as they continue to make your life a living hell. Or you give them the money and say, listen, this is all you're getting. We're done here. Don't contact me if that's what you want. If you want to go no contact because they no longer are serving you in any capacity.

59:05This is no longer even family. This is a business transaction to them. Yeah. So you give them each, what,$113 ,000 and call it a day? Yeah, that's what they're looking for. I mean, I might— What would you do, George? Let's answer this. I might do it for the peace of mind because it's going to weigh on your conscience. And again, in reality, they're never going to stop. And they're going to just try to trash you, your reputation, your life, come after you. I don't know what these people are capable of, truthfully. You know them better than I do. But for me, I'm going, you know what? This is worth it.

59:42I'm writing a check to give me peace of mind that I did what I thought was the best I could do. And because there was no will, we don't know what mom would have done. Right? Yeah, well, that's the thing is I tried to – I had like a chat GPT write up a mock will and just try to really specify what her wishes were around my 16-year-old sister. and that was met with extreme hostility. And they were trying to make me out to be the bad guy in the hospital. And I was like, guys, like I'm going to have to handle this stuff with family court and probate and all that. So I'm just trying to figure out what mom's wishes are and they didn't want to hear it.

1:00:24Well, AI is never going to figure out what your mom's wishes would have been. Bad decision there. Well, no, no, no, no. I meant write up a will for me to fill in. So like the will was already written up. If we could have the notary come up from the hospital. This is when she was still alive, you're saying? This is when she was still alive. Like we had probably. So she was still coherent and things like that. And I asked the nurse if she was to have a will wrote up and she wanted to sign it, would it be legal? And they said, yeah, as long as his notary was there. And when I brought that up to the other family members.

1:00:57And it wasn't to go through all the assets. It was really to focus on my 16-year-old sister, what her wishes were around her. How old are the siblings now? 16 and 21. Okay, because I wouldn't be giving a 16-year-old$113 ,000 or a 21-year-old. I'm not giving either one of them. So I might do this later on when they're adults and say, hey, here's – and have it in a written contract of here's how much you'll get and when. Well, now the other thing is do I put this in a mutual fund and set up a trust for them with conditions? you know because like like i i don't want to give a 21 year old a hundred thousand dollars and i don't have a steward assigned i'm gonna tell you something you're old nick here's the deal george i'll give george the final word on it i he's already given his opinion george is way nicer than me uh probably about to drop the hammer probably because he's slightly more neurotic than me he didn't want to have to deal with it um i i think the trust idea would normally make sense It doesn't make sense in this case, George and Nick, in my opinion, because the minute you say to them, to the 16 and 21 year old, one's two faced, the other one has cut you out of their life.

1:02:08And you're going to say to them, you'll get this, your hundred thousand, your share at this age. And if you meet these moral conditions, they're going to freaking lose their mind and they're never going to get it anyway. And I think your gut is the one you go with here. And I think you were thinking at first, I'll give him something. And now I don't think that makes any sense. And I'm going to go extreme. I think it's extreme. But I think in this case, it calls for that. I cut them both out. There's no way you're going to be able to ever figure out what mom wanted. She didn't take care of it. She made it your problem.

1:02:42You stepped up like a good son. You're a good man. You're going to make the best use of that money. I just, I'd be okay, George. I'd sleep very well at night, not giving them a nickel. And you're sure, Nick, there's no legal obligation here to give them anything because there was no will? No. The courts decided it should all go to you? That$340 ,000 is all life insurance money from her work. And you were the sole beneficiary? Sole beneficiary. And why was that? Why did she do that? Because of your age? When she – I was her only child when she first got the job. Okay, so she just kind of never got around to changing it might be the real reason.

1:03:20Yes. versus if she was able to today, would she add them as beneficiaries? We don't know. We can't play that game. That's the question mark. So, I don't know, man. This is a real tough personal decision. You've got two options. I don't think either one is wrong. I wouldn't fault you for either one. But, I don't know. Peace of mind is worth something. So, I would just think about that. You know these people better than I do. You got it. Thank you guys for your time. Yeah.

1:03:50Thank you.

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1:05:45The Ramsey Show Question of the Day is brought to you by Why Refi. When your private student loans are in default, it's easy to feel ashamed or stuck, but Why Refi will not judge you. They'll help you rebuild, refinance, and regain control. visit yrefy.com slash Ramsey. That's Y-R-E-F-Y dot com slash Ramsey. Not available in all states. Today's question comes from Alexis in Connecticut. My husband and I exceed the income limits when it comes to retirement account contributions. We've heard about the backdoor Roth IRA option, but it seems a bit complicated to manage every year. Are there simpler alternatives or other strategies we could consider.

1:06:26I mean, I don't think it's that complicated to manage every year. And if you want help with it, you could use a financial advisor who could help execute a lot of the pieces for you. Are there other simpler alter? I don't think there's anything much simpler when it comes to tax advantage retirement options. Now, it depends on what your retirement options are currently. If you've got a 401k, you've maxed out, that's a great place to go, especially the Roth option. You got the backdoor Roth IRA option. There's a mega backdoor 401k option that you might have access to with your company. You can check with your HR department, but that one is even a little more complicated.

1:07:02So the backdoor Roth IRA is simply this. You contribute with after-tax dollars to a traditional IRA, and then you convert that to Roth. So it's two steps. And I don't think it's as complicated as you're making it out to be. you said you've heard about it but you haven't actually done it so i would do it first before you decide it's much too complicated uh there's lots of videos on this online and again i would you can reach out to a smart vester pro on our website if you want help with it if it feels too complicated that's what they're there for to help you understand the stuff and to not make it so overwhelming but good problem to have yeah very good problem to have and you talking about super Megas and backdoors.

1:07:43It feels like a child. I don't know. What's better? What's better? Mega or super mega? It feels like we're naming Charmin toilet paper. It's like, how about we just, how about we just simplify the whole process, Congress? But that's too much to ask. That's a lot. Carol is up in Knoxville, Tennessee. Carol, how can we help? Hello, guys. So I have a situation of I own a home in Iowa, and my in-laws have been renting it from me for 12 years. Now my landlord is retiring and has offered us the house that we've been renting the same house for 12 years. But I can't seem to get my in-laws out of my house.

1:08:31So I want to sell it, but they're not medically or physically able to move on their own right now. So I don't really know what to do. Should I keep renting it to them or should I sell it? Well, I feel like the way you set that question up, there's not that secondary option you gave us. Should I sell it when you can't even get them out of it? And it doesn't sound like your husband's much help. And then you said they can't get out of it. And he's told them that they, you know, we want to sell it by this time, by this time, by this time, the last two years. Where would they be if they weren't renting from you guys for the last 12 years?

1:09:13They were renting before that another house. Okay. We got an opportunity to come down here, and we kind of wanted to keep the house as a backup plan in case this didn't work out. And, yep, here we are 12 years later. Well, so the great news is, is that your husband's on board with selling the house. I thought maybe that was going to be an issue. But the bad news is, is he won't actually be a man. Right. And tell his parents that it's time for them to move on. Now, the issue of they can't physically leave. Is that true? Yeah. My mother-in-law has gotten really bad where she can't even walk now.

1:09:53My father-in-law's had a heart attack. it's 11 acres and he just he can't do it all himself right but i guess what i'm trying to understand is is we want them out but they actually can't leave right well is that true i mean you guys could go help them move like can we put them in like a wheelchair into a van and put take them to a different house they rent and you guys do the actual moving process Well, I have even offered to buy a trailer for them to move into until they found something else. Well, what are you charging them for rent right now? Honestly, it's been ridiculously cheap. They've only been paying my mortgage, which is now paid off as of five days ago.

1:10:36Okay, you guys are being taken advantage of. The more detail we get. Do they have enough money to rent elsewhere? That's the question. um i don't really think so i mean what is their income 500 um i honestly don't know but it's probably roughly 2 000 a month okay and they're not going to find rent for 500 i assume anywhere in the area no no so are you guys you're going to have to subsidize their rent elsewhere if that's if that's what you guys choose to do because otherwise they're on the street what are the options here right i don't want them on the street put them in a home sounds to me like you're holding on to this house and they're gonna live in it until they aren't alive my husband says the same thing my dad and i built this house and my dad passed away in 2007 and i just can't go back there no more i'm done how old are they no i get that part i guess what i'm saying is yeah go ahead they're like 72 and 73.

1:11:43Okay. And there's a chance they could live another 20 plus years, right? Probably not. I was going to say, that's generous. They're physically in bad shape. People can live into their 90s, even if they physically can't get around. So I'm wondering, is there a condition? Is there a cancer or something that says, hey, this might be ending in the next five years? Right. Well, I guess my question is, as their health gets worse, they're not going to be able to stay in that house anyway, and they'd have to go to an option that's not even on the table right now, but all of a sudden becomes the option.

1:12:19Am I right? Yes. Well, I guess my point is, is that based on what George and I have heard, even though I hate this for you, and I think it's manipulative, it sounds to me like until that becomes the situation and where their health requires them to move out, you're kind of stuck in this situation. Yeah. And your husband hasn't taken any initiative. Right. Well, he's told him several times, you know, we need you guys to find a place to rent. Well, I appreciate that. They're not going to get on Google and go search. They're not moving. He's told them, and they literally aren't even listening to him.

1:12:58Correct? They've tried, and she got scammed. Scammed in a rental situation where they gave them a deposit that was fake or what? No, they wanted them to go buy some Apple cards and stuff to go see the house for the down payment. Okay, and she was able to go buy these Apple cards? No. Okay. So how did she get scammed? No, she didn't. She tried to send her husband, my father-in-law, and they were going to go meet her somewhere to give him the cards. Oh, goodness gracious. He has to carry her to the truck. Well, here's the thing. You know, it's just a man. Unless your husband, I understand you don't want to go back because there's some kind of pain in there with you.

1:13:43That's not why we're talking today. Right, no. Unless he wants to go back to Iowa and handhold them. That means he finds the place, make sure they don't get scammed to buy Apple cards or what in the world is going on in Iowa. But unless he, as their son, goes back and cleans this mess up, then you're holding until it takes care of itself. So it sounds like to me. So if you guys really want them out, your husband needs to grow a spine and fly back to Iowa and solve this problem. Right. And if it's not solvable, as you're painting this picture to us, then they're staying there until they can't stay there.

1:14:24Right. And at this point, it's not a financial burden to you, not much of one other than upkeep, right? Well, yeah. Yeah, it needs some stuff. Well, we'll do that later. Yeah. As long as it's inhabitable by them, don't spend a nickel on it, right? Right, right. It's a tough one. Yeah, because that was my fear, too, because I could take out a personal loan and fix it. No, whatever you do, do not go into debt over the situation. Let this all sit. No, I don't want to do that because I won't get it back. Either you let them stay and you can't sell or you try to get them to an assisted living, senior living, or a rental that makes sense for them financially.

1:15:04But either way, this is going to cost you.

1:15:18Thank you.

1:15:47All right, the Ramsey Solutions Christmas deals are here. Oh, boy. Dave thinks he's Santa Claus, George. And he's not far from it. He's not far from it. Boy, oh, boy, this is unbelievable. $13 for our best-selling hardcover books. $12 for the Question for Humans decks. $7.99 for audiobooks and e-books. $20 for all of our assessments and so much more. Go to RamseySolutions.com slash store, RamseySolutions.com slash store, or if you're on YouTube or podcast, we have a link to the store in the show notes. Hayden is joining us now from Asheville, North Carolina. Hayden, how can we help? Hey, guys, can you hear me?

1:16:35Loud and clear. What's going on? Awesome. So I'm just kind of looking for some information. so I'm actually enlisted into the Air Force in about three weeks and then I will go to basic training from there so kind of what I'm looking for is just kind of some advice on what should I do while I'm in the service just try to get better financially and then just kind of you know grow it while I'm in you know if I do choose to get out after my four years or make a career out of it I've got a few things I've already got my IRA set up. I've got money in my bank accounts, you know, pretty good on that. I do have a truck that I just purchased, so that is kind of a debt that I took on.

1:17:21I wouldn't say kind of a debt. I would just say it's a debt. But, yeah, that's kind of just what I'm just kind of calling in and asking for advice on what I could do while I'm in. Sure. How old are you? I will be 25 in February. Cool. And what will you be making? uh starting out i'll make about 2700 a month um and then i just progress with the rank as as i got through okay are you living for free um yeah i mean i'll live in i'll live when i'm there i'll live for free um because i live in the dormer toys and stuff sweet okay so you can make 2700 work and uh you've got a truck payment now to deal with do you need this truck truck?

1:18:07Well, yeah. It was a trick question, Hayden. The answer is you do not need this truck. How much was this truck? It was$53 ,000. Now tell me why on God's green earth does a 25-year-old young man who's got a bright future ahead of him need a$53 ,000 truck? So here's what happened. I had a car. I've had a car for about 10 years, and the warranty was about to run out and everything. And I will say this. My family has helped me with the payments so far. But when I get started and get established into the military, then I will take on the payments. So it was kind of a little push from my family just because the car, the vehicle that I had was the warranty was gone and then the miles was just going to get too high.

1:19:03I'm still looking for a reason why you needed a$53 ,000 truck that you couldn't afford. You could run for Congress. That was such a good deflection, sir, on that direct question. So one more time, why does a 25-year-old going to the Air Force need a$53 ,000 truck? While he makes$32 ,000 a year, by the way. Oof. How much is the payment? The payment is$825 a month. Oh, my word. I can't breathe, Hayden. And your family's paying all of it? So, yeah. So I'm paying the insurance on it. And then they just, because we just, the payments just started coming out at the beginning of this month. Yeah, so you don't even know what it's like to experience it.

1:19:47And you're asking me how to grow your investments? Do you understand how diabolically inverse those two things are? That you're paying interest on a depreciating asset that's almost twice your income while asking me how to build wealth. Do you find this ironic? Yeah, it was a concern of mine when the vehicle was coming up. Here's how you build wealth, Hayden. I'm going to be honest. You sell the truck while you can and get out from underneath this payment. How much could you sell it for? I bought it pretty much brand new. It had one owner, and it only had like 6 ,000 miles on it, so I could probably make my money back on it.

1:20:34I would attempt to do that. Do you have any money saved? Oh, yeah. I've got thousands of dollars saved. How much exactly? uh i've got about 20 000 saved and then i've got some cash probably eight to ten okay so here's what i would do i would sell that truck and then take ten thousand dollars and get yourself a reasonable used car maybe 15 would be the top end limit out the door after taxes is what you're going to spend on this thing making thirty thousand dollars because you told me your stated goal is to build wealth right absolutely so if that's the thing we're aiming at then we're going to spend as little money as possible on toys and depreciating assets.

1:21:16And we're going to get out of debt and stay out of debt. Is this your only debt to your name right now? Yeah, this is my only debt. No credit card, no loan, no nothing. I'm telling you, if you sell this car, get out of debt, stay out of debt, and then you have all of your income at your disposal to actually build wealth with, we can get you a game plan to build some wealth and invest. But right now, that$800 a month could have been going into an investment, But instead, it's going to Toyota. Yeah, exactly. And so I would get out from this truck and see if you can take it back to the dealership that screws you on this deal.

1:21:51What's the interest rate on this? It is 8.24. Cool, cool, cool. What if you could make 8 % on your money instead of lose it? Wouldn't that be cool? Yeah. That's what I'm trying to trade here. I'm not mad at you for wanting to enjoy your life. I'm mad because it's robbing from your ability to build wealth for you and your future family so I would say hey mom dad thanks for enabling this bad decision I want out of this thing you're off the hook for the payment yeah I mean they you know they talked to me it talked about it and they was like well we can do it you know while you're in and then when you get established you can take it but my biggest thing is I I don't have property in my name and I would you know we I don't know how property and the value is, and I would love to get started on property as soon as I can.

1:22:41And, of course, with the truck payment and stuff, that kind of puts me down. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. All of your goals are in direct opposition to your actual behavior. You're saying, I want to own property. I want to build wealth. I want to invest. And yet we're going backwards. And so I want you to undo that decision as quickly as possible so that you can actually have some money. Because you save$8.25 a month in a savings account, you'll be able to actually buy something one day. But if you continue down this path of taking on a payment, trading it in, getting another payment, then you're going to be broke for as long as you can remember.

1:23:11So I'm wishing you the best, man, but this truck needs to go yesterday. Yeah. And then walk the baby steps out. We'll give you total money makeover as our congratulations gift. Let's also give George's book, Breaking Free from Broke. Yes, please read the car loans chapter. Read the car loans chapter as a follow-up. That's good homework. But the point is you're going to have a great chance to live very affordably while you're in the Air Force. And we thank you for serving our country. You're a great American. But take advantage of that. And so saving and investing while you're there, not going into any debt, getting out of all debt now.

1:23:48And all you got to do is get rid of this truck. And, by the way, you're going to meet opposition on that because what George just laid out for you is very countercultural, included in your own family. They're going to be laughing when you roll up in that new truck you get, the new to you truck. That was$10 ,000. Right. But I mean, how much do you need any kind of a vehicle when you're on a base? That's what I'm wondering. You know, you're just tooling around to the, you know, local Wendy's, I guess. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, catch a ride with the other guys. And they're fancy trucks that have$800 payments.

1:24:19That's the way to do it. There's the deal. You ride around in somebody else's. Are we still, by the way, in America, are we still on the upper end of$700 on the average amount of car payments or has that gone up? Do you know? Yeah, it's over 700 now. Over 700. Yeah. Oh, I thought it was high 700s. And what we are, we're actually headed to the amount of student loan debt we're in equal to car debt. That's what's crazy. Did you hear about Trump's 15-year car loan? Is that going anywhere? I heard a rumbling about this. I could not find any credible sources that said they were working on a 15-year car loan.

1:24:50I can't either. It was mentioned. The latest I heard was the seven-year car loan has now kind of been normalized. 15-year car loans I don't believe exist unless you're talking a luxury exotic car that's hundreds of thousands of dollars. It was floating around the internet when the 50-year mortgage was thrown out. Would anything shock me in America today that's going to cause us to be more broke? To have our fancy toys? Why not? The guy in charge likes the debt. He's not scared of debt because he'll just bankrupt on it, I guess. That's his M.O.

1:25:36What's up, guys? George Camel here. What if I told you that you had thousands of extra dollars hiding in your budget right now? Listen, I know how crazy that sounds. You're thinking, dude, I'm broke. My money's tighter than the middle seat on a spirit flight. But believe it or not, you've got more margin than you think. And our EveryDollar budgeting app helps you find it. In fact, the average person finds$3 ,015 on average in just the first 15 minutes. That's like giving yourself a huge raise without an awkward conversation with your boss. Now look, this isn't magic. You're not hitting the lottery.

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1:26:36welcome back to the ramsey show in the fairwinds credit union studio i'm ken coleman george camel is alongside and we're happy to have you with us triple eight eight two five five two two five is the phone number michelle joins us now in phoenix arizona michelle how can we help Hi, guys. Thanks so much for helping me out. I guess my question is, how do my husband and I get out of$270 ,000 of student loan debt combined on one income? What's his income? We make$92 ,000 a year gross. Okay. And what are your options for increasing income? Are you able to work outside the home right now? um so i am a author i've been doing it for 11 years sorry what was that freelance right um i've been a published author okay for 11 years and a freelance writer but a lot of the companies i write for don't pay me they don't pay you nope what do you mean like you did the work and then the payment never came through um more of they're all saying that there's budget cuts And if I want to get my work out there, I have the right to help people for free or not get paid.

1:27:52Okay. Yeah. No. Is this a scam? This is not how the world works, even in the freelance writing world. They set a rate, you know, and they say, hey, we'll pay you$150 to write this thing, and then they pay you to write that thing. It changed a lot with the last recession in 2008, and I write, but the books don't pay very well for advances and royalties. Okay. Are there other writing jobs that you could get? Because you're saying you're able to work full-time. Nothing's stopping you from doing that. I can work remote. I have a little munchkin at home school, so at night I can write. I'm happy to do it.

1:28:30I've always done that. But I've even been looking at teaching work. I have two master's degrees, so I can be a teacher, but I haven't been able to get hired online, like remote, asynchronous. Well, okay, I appreciate all that, but there's an old phrase, and I'm going to ask you to finish it. Where there's a will, there's a... Way. Okay. And I appreciate that you've tried to get the online professor. I think you should still be trying for that. I think that's a great idea. But I think with all of the freelance in today's economy, the freelance work, because of your varied skills of writing, there's a lot of different type of writing you can do and none of this nonsense where you're writing for free.

1:29:16But you may need to get outside of the writing side of things and look at what other online, you know, work-from-home roles that with your two masters, with your writing experience, there's a lot of transferable skill there. I mean, you should be thinking in the$50 ,000 to$75 ,000 category at a minimum with those two masters. What are your master's degrees in? English and creative writing, but I have a unique niche that's needed. I actually help kids and teens who are struggling with life issues, such as if their parent died or if they're living with alcoholic parents or if they're struggling with bullying.

1:29:55Those are kind of things that I touch in. There's not a lot of help for them. And if I don't write for free sometimes or write, then they can't get the information that's needed to help them. So I'm kind of in a, if you do it for free, at least I'm getting the information out to those kids. But if I stop writing, then the information stops. So that's why I kept doing it, if you're wondering why I keep writing for free. No, we're not judging you, but my point is you can't only do so much of that. Right now you need to bring in more income to help your husband. Do you agree or disagree with this?

1:30:29Oh, no, I agree. I'm just having trouble finding that. But, you know, I mean, I've been trying to apply like crazy. Well, but it's not about applying like crazy. I'm going to give you my book, The Proximity Principle, so we don't have to describe the entire book. But you have to get into a very strategic system of contacting people. And I'm not talking about applying on LinkedIn or applying online. I'm talking about talking to real people who can make real connections for you because there's a lot you can do. But you need to be targeting something in the$50 ,000 to$75 ,000 range. I would take all those masters, all that skill, all that experience, and I would expand.

1:31:09I would put it, you know, if nothing else, put all of your work experience and expertise into ChatGPT just for fun. Just put it in there and go, what would you suggest? You've got to start opening up your eyes to possibilities because you guys need more income. Now, I want to bring George in. Let's assume we get more income, okay? George, systematically walk them through what they do. So you've got how many total debts out of this 270? I have most of that is my student debt. He's at like$65 ,000. The rest is mine. And then we also have a mortgage and credit cards. And we're in some collections right now because everything kind of just got a little out of control.

1:31:54Okay. Okay, so you've got the majority of it is student loans, and that$270 does not include your mortgage. That's all consumer debt? Nope,$270 straight student loans. The$270 is just student loans? Yep,$250 is our mortgage. So you have$250 on top of the$270? Yep. Okay, what are your monthly bills right now if you add up the basics, food, utilities, housing, transportation, insurance, and minimum debt payments? oh four walls if we're just talking four walls it'd be 5400 but the debt are put to like 7500 and you guys are bringing home like five thousand dollars uh like 5400 okay which was why you're going into credit card debt yeah it's just kind of um like we're taking our four walls and then we're trying to pay them and then it just got into a mess so we stopped paying the collection So we're trying to concentrate on the four walls like we're learning from you guys.

1:32:52But it's kind of blowing up in our face at the moment. I would agree. I think the charity work passion project stuff needs to stop because we need to cover our own household right now. Do you agree? That's what I'm trying to do. Oh, yes, I agree. I would be finding anyone I know that works at a place that is hiring for any role that I am somewhat qualified for. So you think about content writing, copywriting, grant writing, adjunct professor in creative writing or English. Have you explored all of those? And do you know anyone who works at a place that has those positions? Yes, I've been applying like crazy.

1:33:31I've been reaching out for networking projects. I'm connected to all my old editors. They're connecting me to other editors. I even reach out international. I have some friends international trying to get me at their university so I can teach remote online. Anything you can think of, like, I'm jumping out. Can we look elsewhere for now and just do side hustles that have nothing to do with writing, just to bring some income in the door? The problem is I don't have any family support, so my husband's on call at work, and it means no one would be able to watch my munchkin. That's why I have to do, like, remote.

1:34:06Got it. What does he do for work? He is a manager at a facility company. And is there any upward mobility for him to climb up the ladder and make more, make six figures? He's been trying. So we've been he's been applying the interviews, but he hasn't, you know, we're still trying, but he hasn't gotten one yet. We're both trying everything we can think of. And he's been looking at other companies. So we've both been networking. It's just kind of a, we're both kind of stuck. Is that what we're trying? Yeah, the only variable that can move right now is the income. The debt's not going anywhere. There's nothing to sell off.

1:34:44We can't sell our master's degrees that we paid a quarter million dollars for. So what we can do is utilize them to get that better job and make more money. Yeah, and this is a full-time job now. This isn't a, well, we're stuck. We're trying and nothing's happening. No, nothing's happening yet, but we're going to continue to move like the mouse in the maze, always moving towards the cheese. Hang on the line. We've got the proximity principle as my gift to you. You need to read this, or if you want the audiobook, we'll get that for you.

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1:36:50I got to say it again. That's a lot of slashes and dashes, George. ramseysolutions.com slash health dash coverage or and this is the easy way to do it click the link in the show notes if you're on youtube or podcast well said no notes yeah stanley is up in mobile alabama where george hailed from went to college love that stanley how can we help hey how's it going i uh hopefully you got a quick question that you guys can uh answer smack a little bit of scent into me we will determine that stanley we will determine that absolutely my question is should i gift the remainder of my daughter's wedding budget back to her and i can give you a little bit of the background my oldest daughter from my first marriage, just got married.

1:37:45When they initially got engaged, my wife and I, her stepmom, we set aside$10 ,000. And that was kind of, hey, this is going to be your budget. My daughter and her husband, they decided that they're going to do a destination wedding, come down here, get married. And so it actually ended up being a lot cheaper. And originally it was going to be about$5 ,000. My wife and I thought, cool, we can, you know, set aside this$5 ,000 and that would be a nice little, you know, like wedding gift, wedding present for them. As things went on, a couple little expenses, you know, with wedding planning, typically as they always do, kind of a rose.

1:38:28So my wife and I, we stepped in and we said, hey, don't worry. We got some money for this. We'll cover you guys. My wife did a ton of planning for this wedding. She did the lion's share for this, and we never quite really felt like she got a thank you. Then to also add on top of it, my daughter, while not a bad person by any means at all, but there's a few little things financially that we don't agree with that she does. She finances cars. As soon as she paid off a new car, we were so excited for her, and then she turned around and bought another one. and so we're kind of sitting there a little uncomfortable with it but then really the icing on the cake is she bought a house with her husband and her mother so the three of them bought a house together and yeah that's uh something that we definitely don't agree with and so now we're sitting here the wedding's all done and we're like we now got about$3 ,500 back and we're just a little bit hesitant of if we should get this back to her or not.

1:39:37Yeah. I mean, okay, George, I don't know what you're experiencing right now, but I'm listening to the setup of this question and you finished it and I'm going, this is not your idea to give her the$3 ,500 back. You just gave us a great case as to why you shouldn't. Whose idea is this? Well, no, this was the original idea. Now, my daughter doesn't know that there's this extra money with the budget. That's a big question. Did you promise them, hey, we have$10 ,000 to gift to you for the wedding? Whose idea was this? Answer the question. Was this originally the idea? If you didn't spend any of it, you'd give her the extra?

1:40:10This was something you and your wife agreed to? No, no, not at all. Again, my daughter doesn't know that this extra money. I know, but whose idea is this? Was it yours? You said, I'll call Ken and George today and see what they think about the$3 ,500. Was it your idea? Oh, yeah, yeah, absolutely. Well, you just talked yourself out of it, I thought, in the question. Yeah, it sounded like you needed to process it out loud in front of us and a few million people. And you came to your own conclusion. Probably correct. Because here's the thing. You're not going to have peace about giving them this money.

1:40:40You're going to resent them. And they don't even know you resent them for it. Yeah. And they don't even know the money exists. You did what you said you were going to do, which is help cover the cost of the wedding. You did that. You didn't promise them a certain amount. You didn't promise them if there was any money left over, they'd get it. So just hang on to the money. Agreed. Well, another little layer that I might add in is, so I have two more daughters with my current wife that are, they're about 10 years younger than my oldest. So again, wedding planning isn't on the horizon, but we're trying to sit here and we're trying to be like, are we going to be fair and equitable?

1:41:16And we know. Stop, stop, stop. I can't, I can't, I can't bear it. I'm trying to save you from yourself. This is a separate deal. Well, you gave her the wedding that she wanted, and there's$3 ,500 left over. I don't know where fair and equitable comes in. That's my opinion. Now, America may disagree with me. George may disagree with me. That's fine. But I think you'd drive yourself crazy here. So now all of a sudden, if you give her the$3 ,500, that makes, in your mind, the$10 ,000 hole. And so the other two, well, what if weddings cost a lot more? I don't even know how you did the wedding for$6 ,500 to listen to George talk.

1:41:51He tells me all the time about the average cost of weddings. Yeah, that's like the DJ alone. The donut wall is going to cost that much. Are you with me, George? It was the three families we went in together. Got it. And so we put up$5 ,000. So, I mean, total. Are you guys in a better financial spot now? You have no debt? Yeah, we're baby steps four, five, and six. We're in great shape. I'm hoping my soft goal is call you back in about five years for one of those millionaire theme hours. Love it. to talk to you guys then so i'd put the 3500 i'd put the 3500 towards the younger two daughters okay uh you know what i can't believe i'm admitting this george but you'll be very proud of me hit me i have been putting a set amount away above and beyond all the things uh because i have one daughter and she's 16 and i hear you talking about the cost of weddings and i'm like yeah yeah and i I know your daughter.

1:42:52She's going to want a nice wedding. She is. And you also know my wife. And she's going to want her to have a nice wedding. So you know who's been putting money away for over two years? Wow. I'm proud of you, man. That's big. So I would, I'd put, that's what I would do with a 35-footer. Yeah. Or unless there's debt or anything else, obviously. What you can do is use it for your other financial goals. And you've got time to save. You've got 10 years. And so it's up to you how you do that. you may want to invest outside of retirement for a goal like this since you have a long time horizon. Park it in index funds, you know, for 10 years and just kind of stack money away as it comes in.

1:43:28And as you feel comfortable, set a goal for how much you guys want to invest per year. And there's no fair. It doesn't have to be exactly what the other daughter got. Because who knows what weddings will cost 10 years from now. Yeah, I agree. Absolutely. Well, thanks for the call, Stanley. George, this brings up a good point. You and Whitney will be invited to Josie's wedding. Oh, I can't wait. That's wild to think about. So you're going to do your part and get a really great gift. 100%. No cheap, George. No, no, no, no, no. All right. No, I'm going to get her FPU. And then I'm going to have to have a gluten-free set of items for you.

1:44:04Yeah. So that's why I'm investing now. You're hoping the gifts are nice enough to offset the cost. I don't know. I think I'm just giving myself some therapy right here. I can't even believe it. But it's going to happen. and it's going to happen before you. It goes fast. Yeah. And so you know what I decided? I was like, I'm going to get ahead of this. So it's a fund. And it's, guess what? Ain't nobody going to be asking me for more money. Well, whatever's in there is what she gets. Is that the deal? It's going to be nice. Okay. My point is, is that I'm not planning on that entire fund going to her wedding, but it'll take care of business.

1:44:40But my point is, I'm not getting caught with that deal. No. I'm not getting caught with, oh, I got to come up with more money kind of a deal. Well, I think however much money, that's the budget. And if she wants to save up with her future fiance. Let's fast forward. Let's say 10 years from now. What do you think is a reasonable amount for a wedding, George? Because you're tight. Well, here's my thing. How many people are invited? You invite 250 people, that's going to be an expensive wedding. You got 40 people, we can have a super high quality wedding. Let's go 150. 150, you're probably in for 20 grand in this area.

1:45:12Minimum. Kelly the producer is saying more What do you think the number is? Give me a number She's saying 50 10 years from now 10 years from now? Yeah, at least 50 Keep saving, Kenny boy Keep saving Sorry folks, I'm going to have to step away for a moment and sell some stuff online Ken's about to sell his kidney George, is it me or is it getting hard to breathe in here? You are wearing a sweater I'm going to sweat through this Chest is tight

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1:46:46By the way, George and I were just talking for a brief moment, just a little continuation here for a moment. Because I think this tradition ought to be brought back. I was joking with George and I said, you know, I've only got one daughter. So once she finds the young man that she wants to marry and he wants to marry her, he's got to come to me and offer, you know, pretty good, sizable offering of cattle. You know, I think she's probably worth a thousand cattle, thousand head of cattle, you know. Endless. But maybe I'll do a hundred. So is it goats? Is it cows? I mean, this is a thing that used to happen, George.

1:47:20You looked it up. And I had to explain to Ken that's an HOA violation in his neighborhood. No, no, I would never take possession of them. I would just immediately resell them. So it's old school, but maybe we should bring it back. When did it end? It never ended. It's still happening. There was no single date. But I would say hundreds of years ago is a safe bet for good reason. They're not bringing it back. And neither am I. But it would be fun to kind of look at the young guy and go, all right, there's what we're talking here. It'd make me nervous. I'd go, I'm not sure I want to marry this gal because my father-in-law is insane.

1:47:53Oh, boy, that's fun to me. I don't know why. We're having a good time. Well, in the lobby here in Ramsey Solutions across from our studio, we have a lovely couple, Jose and Maria, if I've got that right. Hi, how are you? Hi. Where are you guys from? We're from L.A. All right. Los Angeles, L.A.? Yes. All right. And I guess you're here on the debt-free stage to do a debt-free screen. Yes. Absolutely. Oh, I love it. Okay. Give us the numbers. How much debt did you pay off? We paid off$215 ,000 in four years. $215 ,000 in four years. I love it. And what was the range of income? So initially, we started off pretty low, but over the course of the years, our income began to increase.

1:48:41And currently, together, we make about$115 ,000. So$115 ,000. So what would you say you started at? I think we started at about$98 ,000. $98 ,000. So making$98 ,000 to$115 ,000. Okay, very good. And what was the debt made up of? Well, car loans, refi loans, credit cards, student loans, solar panel loans. Everything we owned, we financed. You're like, if we can get a payment on this, we're going to find a way. Yes, absolutely. Everything that we owned, we financed. And it just became a regular form of living, a regular part of life. And it became something that was just out of control. So what was that point, would you say, when you were like, this is insane?

1:49:36Why are we doing this? We got to figure out a way out of this. Yes. So we were sitting down doing our taxes and we looked at each other and said, wow, we do pretty well with our income. come and yet our money comes in and it comes right out it comes in it comes right out and our debt's still the same and we're paying bills after bills after bills and it seems like we're never going to end and there were even there were even moments where we were overdrawn and i'm like how is this possible like how is it even possible and and that that was really the turning point so how did you yeah yeah yeah go ahead george i'm just curious how you got connected to the ramsey stuff Well, through my wife, really.

1:50:21You know, we had known about the Ramsey show, and she would listen. I wouldn't, I'll be honest. But when she brought it up, I was like, no, no, I don't want to do anything. No, you know, we're not going to be able to travel. We're not going to be able to go to the World Cup. We're not going to be able to do all the things that we do. No, and, you know. Or Disney passes. Or Disney passes, yeah. And we even got into this big fight. And then finally, I was like, all right, I'll go check it out. And we went to, started taking one of the classes. And that's how it really began. Actually, we also had a friend, Carla and Edwin Payez, who also came to the show and became Deaf Free.

1:51:04And we saw their Deaf Free scream a few years ago. And we became instantly inspired. And so that's when we decided to do the actual plan. And so the four years that it took us to pay off, we were following the Dave Ramsey's, I guess, program, but intensely with FPU that was within the last six months that we really did. And we were more aggressively in paying everything off. But I think if we had done the plan from the very, very beginning, we probably would have paid everything off within maybe about two years, maybe even less. That's interesting. Because the program really does hold you accountable and really does teach you the principles that are based on the Bible, which was really convicting to both of us.

1:51:47Right, Amor? That's really what got me. And, you know, when it got to the biblical aspect of it, I was like, okay, you know what? I'm sold. I'm all in. Let's do this. Okay. And I think the hardest part was probably week two or three when we were challenged to take a step of faith. and for me it was cashing out the little bit of savings that we had for our our daughter's quinceanera which to us is a huge deal in the Mexican tradition right and we had a little bit of money saved but then we had this enormous amount of debt right and so we thought why do we have all of this debt yet we have a little bit of cash FPU says put it into the debt right that makes sense and and we thought we were betraying our daughter right and I remember crying and just like really debating with him, like, does this have further implications?

1:52:40You know, what is my daughter going to say? And so that was one of the hardest things because we really had to rely on God to, for his provision, right? That his love and value for her was not based on just a ceremony of coming of age, but it was beyond that. And also our faith in that he would provide for something like that, right? Because he cares about things like that as well. And now that we are in baby step number five, we're in baby step number five, we're actually going to start cash flowing for her quinceanera in about six months. We'll be done with that. Awesome. Yes. That's fantastic.

1:53:24But Alonso also did a huge sacrifice. Do you want to tell them? Yeah, I had just leased an Audi and I think it was on the third class where I turned and I looked at my wife and I said, you know what? We're returning it. And she was like, what? And I was like, you just got it. I was like, nope, we're returning it. It's a bad investment. That's what Dave Ramsey says. I go, the Lord has us covered. I don't know the outcome of it, but I know we're going to be covered and this is what we need to do. And May, May of this year, I returned it. The lease is actually over in December, but we finished paying it.

1:54:03And I'm like, nope, let's return it. And they tried selling me like four more other new cars and these deals. And I was like, nope, I don't want it. We're good. And yeah, it was tough, but we were able to do it. Went back to your old Honda. Yeah, back to my old Honda. And it's still going. Good. Good for you. So what would you all tell people the key is to getting out of debt? if you could single out one discipline. Whoa. You want to go first? Support each other and encourage each other. Pray together. And, you know, there's going to be moments of frustration. I know, you know, there was times where I'm like, I'm done with this, I don't want to do it.

1:54:45But, you know, the outcome is great. Along with that, I would say also find a community support because I think the class, again, it made the world of a difference. I knew about the principles of FPU through the show, right? But it wasn't until we were in the class together with Irene and with Anja that we really held each other accountable, learned from each other. We got on the app. And all of those tools made such a huge impact. It kept us accountable. It kept us on track. The monitoring, the graphs, all of those things made a huge impact. And it does give you those rewards, right? The chemical rewards.

1:55:24I mean, and I know this. I'm a therapist. All right, listen, speaking of rewards, if we don't let you get to the scream, we're going to run out of time. So are you guys ready to scream? Yes. All right, that's why we're here. Here we go. We got Jose and Maria from Los Angeles. They paid off$215 ,000 in four years, making$98 ,000 to$115 ,000. Jose and Maria, take it away. Let's hear your debt-free scream. Three, two, one. We are debt-free! Yes! They are in fact. How about that, George? Just in the nick of time. We got it. What a story. A lot of sacrifice. You know, Jose liked the finer things in life, but they weren't doing fine emotionally and spiritually.

1:56:09And now they're truly free. So proud of them.

1:56:29We'll see you next time.

1:56:47Our scripture of the day comes from Proverbs 17. Love prospers when a fault is forgiven, but dwelling on it separates close friends. And our quote today from Bernard Meltzer. A true friend is someone that thinks you are a good egg, even though he knows that you are slightly cracked. Thank you, Bernard. I'll ponder that. Oh, that's funny, George. Casey is up in Long Island, New York. Casey, how can we help? Hey, guys. Thanks for taking the call. So, I have a heating and air conditioning company that is starting to fail, and I don't know if I should start reinvesting money into it or kind of call it quits.

1:57:30Okay. Well, first we need to try to identify, or do we know, why it's failing? So, about a year ago, I inherited a property that I started focusing more on than the business. and the tech that I had working for me, that was like the senior guy, if you will, has been calling in sick too much. We're losing a lot of accounts. So I've seen it happening. It's not like a shock to me. I didn't wake up this morning and be like, oh no, the business is failing. But when I initially started working on this other property, I knew this was going to start happening. As far as how fast it's happened is a little more concerning to me since he's kind of on his way out as well.

1:58:30Like you're firing him? I don't think I'm firing him. I think he's kind of quitting himself. He's been calling in sick two out of every five days. you know okay and you're not working really in this business you've neglected it i for the most part you know was it just you and him doing like the back end of it you know was it just you and him prior to you getting this property it was me him and then i was training another uh younger fella so this is a super small business so the way so the way you set it up is should i reinvest in it and i was immediately like well i'm not going to tell anybody to reinvest in anything that's failing until we know why it's failing.

1:59:15And now we know why it's failing. And it's failing because you just literally have not been doing anything. And you got one guy who maybe he enjoyed doing it when you were involved with him. Maybe he didn't. Maybe life has changed for him, whatever. But the reality is, is that this company is you. And the thing that's curious to me is that you said, I knew this was going to happen. In other words, I knew the business was going to start to falter if I spent time on this property. So I got to believe, Casey, that means that you thought this property was going to make you more money than this business.

1:59:48Is that the logic there? No. Then why would we knowingly buy and put time and money into something that we know is going to hurt our primary business? So this company is not the primary business. It's about your primary income? No. What do you do full-time? Well, that would have been nice to know. What is this, a side hustle? Yeah. I mean, I started this about seven years ago. I've built it up to a $500 ,000 a year company. What's your primary income? It's last year I netted about, well, no, I'm sorry. I had taxable income about$500 ,000. Doing what? Laundromats and real estate. it okay well that would have been nice to know five minutes ago so perfect so this is one of several businesses and you're saying should i try to keep this one alive no no you clearly don't care about it i i do i do care about it oh my gosh if this was a human being if this was your wife and you neglected her i said man what i don't i care about her i just uh neglected her for the last nine months while i worked on this other thing dude you don't care enough about the business to keep it alive, and I would not put a dime into it.

2:01:05Reinvesting is not going to do anything if there's nobody to do the work. You clearly care about this property. And by the way, kudos on you. You got a half a million dollar income that's just reoccurring income because you've got all these laundromats. So I don't know why you would try to express to us that you care about it. Because you called us going, hey, guys, should I give this thing a go or not? which means you weren't you were on the fence well i wanted to in the beginning i was hoping for just an unbiased opinion regarding you know what other incomes i had well but but my point is i appreciate that but the reason we wasted all that time and me not be able to give you good answers because we have to determine whether or not this is smart move for you to put money in this business i'm thinking it was your primary income because i didn't have any other evidence So now we know you don't need the income.

2:01:58So no one. You need focus. Yeah, you're chasing too many rabbits. Yeah. So what's going on with this property? You inherited it? You put a bunch of money into it? Are you trying to flip it? Are you trying to rent it out? No. So the property I inherited, it was in a trust for the last 20 years. The trust finally came due. It was my grandfather's property. He had a laundromat in there, which I'm currently operating. and that needs to be renovated. It was neglected for 20 years. Nobody literally did anything there. Okay, so you've been investing into that. Are you doing this all with cash or are you in debt?

2:02:36No, this is all cash and I'm primarily doing it myself. Okay, so do you want to focus your time? What's your real question here? Because I would drop this business. What's at stake here if you cut the HVAC business completely? um nothing besides uh seven thousand dollars left on my truck payment you told me you didn't have any debt well that's business debt my personal debt uh buddy casey signed on that that's casey's debt okay all right sorry the business has seven thousand in debt you have seven thousand in debt so you can sell the truck right uh i mean i could pay off the debt are you going to keep the truck yeah yeah no i use that for for for everything other things okay so pay off the truck today and sell whatever equipment that you don't need anymore and just be done with the business that's a better deal than investing into a business that will continue to fail because nobody's got their eyes on it and then just put your focus on what really matters the stuff that you really enjoy that also has the most roi for you that's what i would do personally Yeah, I agree.

2:03:46And to your initial question, there's really nothing to reinvest. You just got your senior tech has found other opportunities or feels like he can take advantage of you because you're so checked out. It's one of the two as to why two days a week that the guy's sick. So I don't I don't know if it's really that or if he's actually really having medical issues. Well, the fact that you don't know tells me that you're hands off. So reinvesting is your time. So maybe for 30 days you get back involved and you pay attention. And then you see, is this thing worth shutting down or is this thing worth keeping?

2:04:24It's going to be pretty simple. You're so hands off right now, you don't know if the guy's got black lung or if he's just lying to you. You don't know. No, no. I mean, I see him every day. I talk to him every day. I'm doing all the back end stuff. The reason why the business started failing is I stopped doing service calls. And you're not going to start is what I'm saying. Yeah, so there's your answer. You don't have the time or passion to reinvest and therefore just get out of the business. Yeah, now I'm more convinced. Now that I'm getting the full picture. I've also been interviewing trying to hire more technicians.

2:05:01The van that we have, we have two vehicles. The one has 175 ,000 miles on it. It has been more in the shop than it's been on the road lately. I wanted to buy a new vehicle to get another tech out there. That was the reinvestment part. Okay. Well, we're taking information as you give it to us. I don't know how much to give without, you know what I mean? Well, it's like if I build it, I'll come. When you ask for advice, just future advice for you, When asking for advice from other people, give them all the information at once. It makes it a little easier. George, I'm with you. I don't think getting a different van for the work is going to solve this.

2:05:42Because you've still got to find people who care. And I don't want to work with a guy who's got one foot out of the business who doesn't care. So I would maybe sell the book of business for what you can get for it. And maybe that will pay off the truck and just be done, man. You don't need to run 19 businesses. You're doing great. Sounds like the laundromat business is really good up here in Long Island. Who would have thought? People got to do laundry. I've got to get myself a laundromat. What would I call it, George? What would be a good name for my laundromat? I think just laundromat. That's what people look for.

2:06:15I think just keep it clear. It's good branding. All right. Hey, folks, remember this. There's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

2:06:32you