You Won’t Win With Money by Accident

30:21So if you buy the house on the 1st of August, you have four months of the taxes. and the seller has eight months of the taxes. Now, have the taxes been paid for that calendar year yet? If they have, the seller is going to get a credit and you're going to get charged because they've already paid the taxes through the end of the year and you're going to own the house for four months that year. Okay, vice versa, if the taxes are closing in August but the taxes are due in October, you're going to get a credit for the whole first of the year from the seller for the first eight months, and then you're going to be responsible for the remaining taxes, and they're going to show up in that prepaid escrow account that I told you about.

31:08All right? So that's a couple of the things you look for. But here's the point of that whole thing. All this stuff is gobbledygook, and it's all lumped into what we call closing costs. And people go, oh, my closing costs were so high. It's like it's a vague term. No, you can get in there and dig around and understand what each item is, and you can select to not do some of the items in some cases. That can be part of the deal. But everything I outlined for you is pretty standard and you're probably going to do it.

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33:04Today's question of the day is brought to you by Y-Refi. If your private student loans are in default, you need a lender who sees you and meets you where you are. Y-Refi offers low fixed rate plans based on your real ability to pay. This is for private student loans that are hurting. Learn more at YRefy.com slash Ramsey. That's the letter Y-R-E-F-Y dot com slash Ramsey. Not in all states. Okay, today's question comes from Amy in North Carolina. She says, my husband and I have three children ages 13 to 19. We make around$125 ,000 a year. Our combined take-home pay is$5 ,100 a month. We have$5 ,000 in credit card debt,$5 ,000 in personal loan, and our monthly car payment is$1 ,275.

33:50That's all their car payments combined. We rent a home for$700 a month from our parents. Oh, from my parents. Our oldest is at her dream college on scholarship, but we have to pay the tuition balance of$1 ,000 a month over nine months. We have nothing in savings or retirement. How can we pay off debts when all our expendable income goes toward tuition? Our second daughter graduates next year, and her dream school is also a private university. We want our kids to go to college. We want our kids to go to the college of their choice, but I don't know how we can pay two tuitions when we're struggling to pay one.

34:30Can you help me figure out a plan to make this work? Yeah. Oh, man, oh, man. So I hate to say this, but I'm also happy to say this because I think it's going to help you. They can't go to their dream schools. They can't go to these private universities because you can't afford them and neither can they. And it's really a simple answer. My dream car is a Bentley. I mean, come on. I wish I had a G-Wagon. I don't. So that's kind of what it is. you're going to have to draw some boundaries here and you're going to have to say no, partially because you can't afford it and partially because it's not the right.

35:10Who cares if they go to a private school? Who cares if it's their dream school? Right. So there's that, that's what you've got to do. And yeah, that's going to free up a thousand bucks a month. You've got bigger fish to fry here because you've got a lot of debt. So that's the first, I would say that's the starting point. I agree with you. I think I would talk to the oldest daughter and say i have a dream i have a dream that you got a job and that you paid your thousand dollars a month what a life what happens when dreams come true yes you're going to get a job kiddo if you want to go to that school because i'm cutting you off effective at the end of this school year this cannot perpetuate the second thing is the second one's not going to school there she can't afford it she can't afford it can't and let me tell you and it's dumb.

35:57I'm going to go$200 ,000 in debt because I want to go to my dream school. We have interviewed so many college students, like for the Borrowed Future documentary, and asked them why it was their dream school. My friend's sister went there. She said it's awesome. That's how they define dream school. One said, I want to go to Mississippi and Oxford. Why? it's a really pretty town you're killing me here you're killing me your lack of decision making ability is killing me and you're going to go two hundred thousand dollars in debt so they can go this school because i've always let's just say you dream to go in there because it's a fancy fancy school yeah like you know vanderbilt okay 70 000 bucks a year right gosh okay let's just pretend I mean, Vanderbilt's a good school.

36:50Yeah, sure. There's nothing wrong with Vanderbilt. It's not horrible. It's got a big name. It's kind of the Ivy League of the South. Generally, until this year, not very good at football, but they've got a good football team this year. And, you know, about$70 ,000 a year. They've got a small undergrad. It's about 3 ,500. A population undergrad is about 3 ,500. University of Tennessee is about 35 ,000. And it's$11 ,000 a year.

37:17And you can mow grass. And go there and pay for it. Right, right. But here's the thing, though. She has this is a long line of bad choices. Yes. This is just the most recent one. You guys are I'm guessing in your 40s, maybe getting ready to be 50s. I don't know. But you're still renting. You're still paying 1275 a month for cars. Let's just put that in clarity, Dave. You would rather drive these cars and pay for your kids tuition because your cars are 1275 and the tuition is a thousand dollars. I'm just saying, if you were going to trade one for the other, there it is. I'll just get rid of both of them.

37:53But I'm just saying, this is just showing a lack of clarity on decision-making. Yeah, we're still renting. We've got these car notes and personal loans, credit card debt. You guys have got to change your ways, not just with college, but debt. So you're going to have to disappoint your children so that they don't spend the next decade of their life being disappointed by student loans getting a degree from a college that's worthless. And where you go to school does not matter. There is no data. Zero pieces of research that say where you went to school caused you to be successful. None. Nada. They went to a good school.

38:31Prove it. What'd they do? Nothing. Nothing, honey. Just like the cereal. That's exactly what they did. They did nothing. Because the formula that makes you successful is called stirring up the person in your mirror. And they'll go find the knowledge it takes to become successful. there's no correlation none 78 of the publicly traded company ceos went to a state school not mit not harvard not yale not vanderbilt i went to the university of tennessee and people that went to vanderbilt work for me dave you don't even know where i went to school i don't where'd you go to school it doesn't matter oh there's that one i know that school yeah where Where you went to school does not matter, people.

39:17So quit overpaying for where you went to school. That's problem number one. Problem number two is help people have a different dream, and the dream is to get educated instead of living your dream at 18 years old. The dream is to put some intellectual power in your tool belt so you can go out there, kill something, and drag it home. That's the idea, okay? It is not, and the trees are pretty. you're killing me and they have a great football team do you play football no what's it matter none of the people that play football there are going to play football at the next level either so let's just call good god the college experience yeah and you're 85 000 in debt for your college experience and you learned how to play beer pong this is dumb dumb dumb dumb dumb dumb dumb dumb dumb okay and it's serious about education it's dumb that's weird so yeah where you go to school matters working while you're in school matters getting scholarships matters and choosing to study something that actually has some use in the marketplace getting a degree in lift left-handed puppetry and then saying you were victimized by the higher education system is bullcrap you were victimized by your own stupidity because you got a useless freaking degree and you overpaid for it from a useless freaking university.

40:40It's just crazy, you guys. So I believe in education. All three of my kids got four-year degrees in something they can actually use. And by the way, we paid cash. And by the way, it was the University of Tennessee Go Vols State School, okay? And so if you want to go to Vanderbilt and you've got an extra half million dollars laying around, then dream your little butt over there, okay? But I'm telling you, ours didn't have that choice and I had the money. I'm just saying, nope. With a capital N, nope, not doing this. So that starts and ends the conversation. But you're right. The big deal in this one is it's an extension of a series of bad decisions.

41:19We're fighting credit card debt. We haven't prepared these kids to go anywhere except apparently never been told no. Well, and there's never been a conversation. And I think for me, the biggest part when it comes to college, you just, you have to do yourself the service and your kids the service of talking about this early on. Don't save it until junior year or senior year when it's like, oh, by the way, college, because that's what happened here. You got to tell them ahead of time, hey, here's expectation. Here's what your dad and I or your mom and I are going to pay for. Here's what we're not going to pay for.

41:50Here's what you're responsible for. Here's the list of places that you can go. Here's the list of places you can't go. We expect you to work. We expect you to have work. Whatever that is, just say it out loud so everybody knows. When they're 12, so they can start thinking about it. Yeah, man. I say it all the time. Here's the purpose of education, to make you more effective in the marketplace. Uh-huh. Right. Yeah. And my parents told me from the very beginning, you better be good at sports or school because you don't have a college fund. So you better figure it out. Yeah. And I knew that it was on me.

42:20Game on. Game on. And I'll just go ahead and stir up the rest of you. A friend of mine that's got a lot of money, he's taking his kid on a college tour. I'm like, we told our kids Knoxville where the University of Tennessee is over there. Run over and give a look.

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44:28welcome back to the ramsey show in the fair winds credit union studio jade washall ramsey personality number one best-selling author is my co-host sarah is in virginia beach hi sarah how are you? Hi, I'm doing well. How are you? Better than we deserve. What's up? I have a question about debt and merging everything. I'm a new wed. Me and my husband recently got married in December 12, 2024. And I didn't know that he wasn't as financially responsible as I thought. um he has i guess been more secretive about his debt i'm a bit more like open about it and he wants to merge accounts but i'm not comfortable with doing it as of yet because he's kind of been very secretive and has lied to me about certain debts and i'm working on now using like your plan to get myself out of debt because i bought a home before we got married back in 2023 i have a car I'm working on paying off, which is supposed to be paid off later, maybe next year, and a couple other few debts.

45:39But he has many more that I wasn't aware of and some that I think he's secretive about still. We're going to marriage counseling, but I just, I don't know how to be more comfortable with merging our accounts together and fear like we'll be deeper in debt versus trying to have more assets. Give me an example. So let's clarify, because part of the solution to the problem is you merging accounts, because when you merge them, then you can see everything that's going on, right? There's transparency there. So give me an example of what that deceit looked like. Was it, I asked him how much the bill was, and he said it was$300, but really it was$3 ,000.

46:20Tell me an example of what that is. Yeah, so when we, when he moved into the home, um, out of his rental, it was that he wasn't making enough at the moment because he needed to still finish paying off, um, like electricity bills, gas bill, things like that. So I told him, okay, how long did you need to do that? And it was about two months. And so when I was waiting for that timeframe, I had got a bill in the mail and it was from the gas company. and when I had asked him if he paid it, he told me yes, but when I ended up calling them, they told me that there was still a balance of$1 ,200 for a gas bill.

47:02And when you asked him about that, what did he say? He told me that it was paid. I never informed him that I called him until a little later, and he told me that he would end up taking care of it. When you said, I called them and you lied, you didn't pay it, what did he say? He just said that I did. It was just firm. He was firm about that he did pay it until I showed him, like, the bill. And then was he like, oh, my gosh, I didn't realize there was still an outstanding balance. We're just really trying to get an understanding. Here's what I'm trying to get an understanding of. Are you dealing with a liar?

47:37Or are you dealing with somebody who's disorganized and chaotic? It's more, he has lied about many, many things. Not just money. It just surprised me. In three months? Yeah, it's been, I guess, 10 months now, but three months into, yes, the marriage, I found out that he was lying. So everything before was being deceived in two separate homes while we were courting and things and then got married. And now everything in the home and I'm seeing it more vividly. OK, so here's here's what I'm trying to be clear about, because there is part of this to Dave's point where some people are just extremely unorganized with their money.

48:18And as they learn to get more organized, things get better and better. And then there's another part of you guys are married. And I'm wondering what the communication sounds like because of the communication is, did you pay the bill? Yeah. And you're keeping it to yourself. No, he didn't. It's this much right. All of that matters in this in this situation. Now, what I do think is if he's lying and they weren't past lies, but there are lies that are continuing on now and you know about them. And if he's lying in other areas, not just money, then you do have a big problem on your hands. yeah you have a big enough problem you need to be in the marriage counselor's office early and often right now because your communication style isn't good because if at my house if i said hey sharon did you pay that she says yes and i went i'm gonna check and i call and they go no it's not paid i would go hey i called them they didn't pay it i wouldn't wait three days and stew about it i'd walk in there right then and go hey what's up you said you paid this right like right then and she would be going i thought i did i screwed up or i was i was ashamed or i was scared or whatever but at least we get to the bottom of it right then we don't carry it around for four weeks and then label her a liar because that's a bad thing to be married to and what i'm trying to understand from the beginning of your call is you're saying now he wants to combine money but you're the one who's afraid to so i'm trying to understand if he's trying to make it right by saying okay let's just put everything together then i don't have to try to, you know, keep something over here while you have it over here.

49:43But you're saying now I don't feel comfortable doing that. So are you late? You're married. Right. Are you worried? What can he do? What do you think he's going to do if you combine finances? Let me ask that question. I think he's going to spend more because I'm like, what is the term people use? Like the breadwinner. So I make majority of the funds. He helps pay, like, since we didn't have a merge account, He would just send me like$250. What does he make? That's another thing. He's kind of private about that, too. So he works for a cable company, and it's supposed to be, quote, unquote,$12 an hour, but they have a point system.

50:23So week to week, sometimes he says he makes$500. Sometimes it's only$300. So would he be direct deposited into your joint account then if you combine finances? Is it, hey, now we direct deposit all of our paychecks into this account, not you get paid and then put money into a merge account. All direct deposits go into the same account. That's how it works. And that's the only way we're doing this, right? Then we know what he's making. And what do you make? So I make$62 ,000 and some change a year. How long did y 'all date before you got married three months ago? it was two years about two years and how many times have you sat with your marriage counselor in the last three months we've been going consistently it's like once every three weeks and now he's going one-on-one with the counselor and I go one-on-one with a woman counselor well that's good that you're doing that and at some point we have to combine that process is too.

51:32All right. Um, he's a bit of a spender as well. So it kind of makes me that's, I guess that's where it gets me a little nervous. Here's the thing. Okay. If you put all of your money into one account and you make a list of all the bills that have to be paid on every dollar and you both agree to them and we agree where every dollar of our income is going to go this month before the month begins, he has agreed to his spending level and you have to before it occurs. If he does otherwise, you're dealing with someone who can't keep a contract now with his wife. And then we got a problem there. That's a different kind of problem.

52:11Okay. But you're not solving a spender by staying separate from them. Combining is the only way to get transparency and accountability on where every dollar is going. And you need to talk to your counselor about the language you are using towards your husband. you have contempt all in your language you're rolling your eyes like you're so much better than him on every subject and that is one of the four horsemen of the apocalypse the primary reason people get divorced when contempt rolls in so you've got to solve for that or this marriage isn't going to make it

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54:37Justin is in Chattanooga. Hi, Justin. How are you? I'm doing well. Thank you all so much for taking my call. Sure. What's up? So I'm going to throw some numbers at you. My wife and I currently have total investments of approximately$875 ,000 in retirement accounts. We owe$390 ,000 on a mortgage at 5.875%. Home estimate, conservatively, probably$600 ,000. We are inheriting a windfall from an unexpected death in the family. And I'm going to break that down for you because that's where the bulk of my question comes in. We are getting approximately$700 ,000 in a traditional IRA, approximately$300 ,000 in a Roth IRA, approximately$100 ,000 in a brokerage account, $12 ,000 in an HSA, and$150 ,000 that's in an annuity with two payout choices, one either lump sum, which is what I'm leaning towards, versus leave it in the annuity for 10 years, let it grow, and then there's a payout at the end of 10 years.

55:56Okay. Who passed away? I'm sorry. It was an uncle that was very much in excellent health, and it was a very big surprise. Wow. Yes. I'm sorry to hear that. But we found him. You're the guy that had the rich uncle. Who knew? I've listened to you for 15 years. I thought I would never be the one. Yeah, that's crazy, isn't it? So you want me to walk through that? Is that what you want us to do? Yeah, well, the two goals are one is to pay off the mortgage, and then we're also looking at possibly having my wife stay home with our children. So meeting those two goals is kind of what we're heading towards.

56:35And how do I prioritize these accounts? Yes, sir. Yeah, in terms of using them. Yeah. Yes, yes, yes, sir. Okay. The annuity lump sum, you can roll that to a traditional IRA and have, wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute. You're the beneficiary on the annuity. That's correct. Yes, sir. Okay. That's just clear money then. Okay. We're going to use that and the brokerage towards the house. That gives me$250 of it. Okay. Okay. The Roth, you can roll to a Roth and it can grow from the rest of your life tax-free. It's the last thing I'm touching. Yes, sir. Okay. 12 ,000 HSA, I don't remember the rules on that, on an inherited HSA.

57:21I suspect it's going to be just like your traditional IRA, which under Biden's new laws, the SECURE Act, he called it, inherited traditional IRAs or 401ks have to be liquidated over a 10-year period of time because the taxes have not yet been paid on them. And when you liquidate them, you're going to pay income tax on that. Yes, sir. Okay. So that one you've got to take out over 10 years. and I would sit down with your SmartVestor Pro and determine how fast I'm going to take that out but I'm going to take out enough now to get the mortgage paid off okay and probably in the process if I can't roll that HSA over it's probably got to be cashed out too it's small I'm just going to go ahead and cash it out it's for cleanliness okay so the brokerage the annuity and the HSA are gone the Roth is going to move on, will take enough out of the traditional plus taxes to finish off the amount to pay the mortgage.

58:22Because I've only got$250 in the first two, brokerage and annuity, right? How much was the annuity? Yeah,$250 total. Yeah,$250 total, and I need$390. And so you're going to pull some of that$700 out, enough to get to there, and enough to pay the taxes that it creates. and then I'm going to pull the rest of that out gradually over time to avoid bracket creep on your income tax brackets. So probably about a five-year pull on the balance of that, not a 10-year. And just as you pull it, it's just yours then. You can do with it. You don't have to roll it. You don't have to do anything. But that Roth is sweet because it can continue in the Roth, and as young as you are, that$300 could be millions and millions, just leaving it alone in good growth stock mutual funds, right?

59:09Now, as far as your wife being at home, with your house paid off, which is really all that's happening here, the rest of this is not going to create any cash today to amount to anything. Can you all live on your income with your house paid off? We can live on just my income alone. To kind of maintain the same lifestyle that we've had, we would need$1 ,200 to$1 ,500 a month, which wouldn't cause a major drawdown on any of this. I wouldn't assume. Counting the house being paid off? Yes. Okay. All right. Yeah. Well, you've done a great job of analyzing it. You know exactly where you are. If you're not working on the SmartVestor Pro, sit down with one and map through what we talked about.

59:50See if they agree with me. Maybe I'm missing something. I don't think I am. But then you could pull that$1 ,200,$1 ,500 off that$700. What's left of that$700 real easy. Okay. It's just taxable. It's just taxable. Yeah, my big concern was not bumping up in tax brackets and paying the government. you know what we could use you know for other things yeah you're going to pay the government some this year to get enough out to pay the house off okay and you might bump your tax bracket this year but i'm going to go i'm not going to worry about this year in the coming years 26 and beyond i'm going to map out what you're talking about and avoid bracket creep sir if possible and you can do that on it's 15 000 a year is 1200 bucks you can do that that's not that that's all we need really yeah that's not going to destroy your life or i mean mess up your bracket creep or any of that stuff and um i mean and you're aware that the bracket creep is it's just a it's kind of a math riddle it's not like if you move from 36 to 39 i don't know what your income is but um that does not move three percent on everything it's three percent on the last dollar yes sir okay so the The first number of dollars are already going to be what they are.

1:01:05That doesn't change. But it just means I'm going to pay 39 % on it instead of 36 % on it because I didn't put a dial on it, right? So you want to dial it to where you just get right up to the edge and then don't pay that extra three on that bracket jump. And, again, somebody that's doing a little bit of tax work with you can help you do that. And you're a SmartVestor Pro. You can get that dialed in. That's very cool. That's very good. Wow. I mean, it sucks that someone had to pass away. But to your point, somebody had the rich uncle. Yeah. Man. Yeah, and he's already a millionaire, by the way, before we got here.

1:01:35It just goes to show what you can do to change someone's life when you yourself have your finances in order. So he's now worth$2 million. Yeah, good for him. But he did not become a millionaire because of inherited money. No, he was already there. He was already there, barely. Yeah. Barely, and then he just doubled it. Yep. What it amounts to. So he got about$1.3 million there, I think, looks like. This guy's not changing his lifestyle hardly at all. He's going to be the same. You know what I'm saying? His wife will stay home. They'll pay off their house. But he's not going to go out and do something crazy because he's been disciplined his whole life.

1:02:13I've always wanted to buy a yacht for$12 ,000 a month. And he didn't call me with that question. This guy's going to be fine. He's got it all dialed in. He knows his numbers, knows exactly where they are. See, that's the thing. Even if you didn't do stuff exactly the way we teach, if we can just get you to pay attention. yeah that guy's paying attention he knows exactly where he is he's already had thoughts about every one of these things and he's paying attention and so you have to be proactive and happen to your money not have it happen to you and when you're teaching the budgeting classes that's what you talk about that's right it's about you for the first time looking at everything and you stair step on knowledge right that guy said he's been listening on and off for 15 years and that's the way it goes the first step is just getting on a budget and starting to pay attention to your month in go, your monthly out go.

1:03:01That's the first step. And then after a while, that knowledge starts to compound on itself. And before you know it, you're just like, you know, the fellow that just called in here. Yeah. Fully in control. A couple of million, million, two and a half million in a heartbeat here. Wow. Very cool. Very cool. So by the way, though, some of you out there that are doing all your talking and your theories and everything, Roth IRAs are not subject to the SECURE Act when they're inherited. because they're tax-free. And so I have moved everything I have. I'm 65 into Roth at my baby step seven. I heard you answering a question about that the other day.

1:03:38You were correct. You know, you pay taxes and convert to Roth, pay taxes and convert with extra money because then it grows not only tax-free for this generation but also for the next generation, and they're not required to withdraw it. They can just let it grow. Like that 300 Roth he had, he can let that one run. The other one, he's got to cash it out because Biden wants his money. Thank you.

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1:05:55If you're out there running around and you're in the Nashville area, stop by and see us at Ramsey Solutions. We're down by Franklin, Tennessee, just a little bit south of Nashville. We've got a big, beautiful campus and a wonderful reception area with a little museum in it and free cookies that are homemade. Yum, yum. Free coffee that's homemade. Yum, yum. Smiling people. And there's always 50 to 200 folks sitting out here watching us do the show. We do it on the glass from 1 to 4 Central Time. every Monday through Friday. And among the people sitting in there, among the area where you sit in to watch the show is the debt-free stage.

1:06:30People come there to do their debt-free screams. It's our favorite thing we get to do around here is to celebrate with people when they have won. The only thing that's more favorite is when it's one of our own from Ramsey Solutions, one of our team members. And that's the case now on the debt-free stage. Shauna McCulley, her husband, Chad. Sean has been with us for 17 years in the finance and administration department of Ramsey for a long time. We've been watching this family win, and now they're here to do a debt-free scream. Congratulations, guys. Thank you. So proud of you. Now, you actually did this in staff meeting the other day when I was leading staff meeting.

1:07:12I got to be there when you did that, and our staff just goes bananas. I mean, 1 ,100 people screaming when you did your debt-free scream. Plus, she's been here 17 years, so everybody knows Shauna, right? Right. And loves her and so forth. And you too, Chad. Oh, thanks. All right. So how much debt have you paid off? $336 ,000. And how long did this take? It took us 17 years. And house and everything? House and all. Okay. Very cool. Very cool. But there were a few stops along the way, shall we say. I won't spill the beans. I won't. Spoiler alert. I'll let you all tell the story. Yeah, so just a few stops along the way, we have a new baby in the beginning of that.

1:07:57We've paid cash for eight cars, two transmissions, over$100 ,000 in home repairs, and six years of cancer treatment. For two different people. Yeah. These two. These two right here. So how old is Lexi? Lexi is about to be 20 in December. Wow. I remember when Shauna walked into the office and tears run down her face and said, my baby's got cancer. And I went, whoa, I can't breathe. And she said, well, try being me. I can't breathe either. And I'm like, well, we got your back. We're going to walk with you. Whatever it takes is you need whatever you need through this. And for a little while, we had a little bald toddler running around here.

1:08:38And she was cute. She was a cute little bald cancer survivor. It was very cool. The fact that you were surviving made everybody happy. We weren't worried about your hair, I'll tell you that. Neither was she. Yeah. She wasn't old enough to even care hardly. And then we get the word that she's beat it, and it comes to the other side of it. And then? So she was three years old. Her treatment went for three years. Then I think five years later in 2017, I was actually diagnosed with the same cancer that she had and beat. And so I went through three and a half years worth of treatment. uh, to get through that.

1:09:17Yeah. So I'm, I'm now five years out. Yeah. Congratulations. And we walked with y 'all through that. Absolutely. Yeah. It was incredible. And, and watched you change from a deputy sheriff to a real estate, uh, extraordinaire agent. Yeah. There we go. And, uh, yeah, the whole thing. So 17 years we've been doing this together. Yeah. It's been a, it's been a wild ride. Yeah. And now the house has paid off the house. And And so that's why we say$336 ,000 over 17 years. Now, we don't ask what they make because 50 of their teammates are standing around. So a little bit unfair to do that. So we ask the rest of you what you make, and you have to tell everybody in front of everybody.

1:09:55But we let them off the hook on that. But, I mean, needless to say, quite a bit of cancer in that 17 years and quite a bit of the rest of normal life in that 17 years, and you still manage to walk through and get the house paid off. How does that feel? It feels incredible. But I mean, even through cancer treatment and new cars and unexpected home repairs, we never went back into debt. We always had an emergency fund or just really great people around us that made sure that we never had to want for anything. Wow. So how do you celebrate what happens next? You've come 17 years to this moment. So travel.

1:10:37Yeah. Immediately, we're going to be getting some new cars. We've got to update some of the cars that we're driving around. And so we're going to do that. And then the first thing that we did after, or the first budget that we did when we didn't have a mortgage is we decided that we are going to give a heck of a lot more. So we doubled our giving. Nice. What we've done in the past. And then went back, put a little bit more into retirement. it and then yeah now we're just we're out having fun and we're doing it cool very cool i'm proud of y 'all um i think your story is a story of perseverance uh sticking with it forever and now and now you get here what's the secret to sticking with it because most people just quit they just throw up their hands and go well it's too hard yeah and and for us we had you know it It was student loans and a mortgage.

1:11:32So we never really got those small wins, you know, like the credit cards. We didn't have credit cards, so we didn't get the little small wins along the way. It was two big, huge numbers. And the only thing that made us go is, like, the reason why, why we're doing this, what's going to be on the other side of it. And we just had to keep going, just get up every day and go and do it. But having a support system here and having friends and coworkers who really understood the why was huge. Yeah. Well, they also understood you were fighting a bear with a switch. I mean, it was hard. Yeah. It was hard.

1:12:09It was a process, man. And the team made sure that everything was good all along the way. I watched them take care of y 'all, and they did a great job. Yeah. I mean, we have friends in the lobby today. We have one who paid our mortgage for two months. we have um my friend who when our transmission went out let me use his car for free for a month well i mean we just had people love on us so well yeah yeah the only way you get through it and that's incredible wow so proud of y 'all proud to call your friends proud to call your family glad you're on the team here and uh yeah you definitely need to do some traveling you've earned it you've you've paid the price to win you've lived like no one else and now you should by God live like no one else absolutely I want you to get her a good car all right$336 ,000 paid off in 17 years including two different bouts of cancer several other items that are more normal that went at them but they stuck with it and pushed their way all the way through I'm so proud of you guys Chad and Shawna from Nashville Tennessee count it down let's hear a debt-free scream three two one we're debt free

1:13:32wow now all you co-workers that are in here cheering them on get back to work dang dave the whole lobby's full of ramsey out there everybody loves shauna oh boy oh it's fun man good for them there's so there so many people would have given up they didn't no they didn't quit they didn't quit and sometimes and they didn't go backwards that was the other thing they never stopped and said oh well you know we gotta we gotta buy a car and we've got cancer and the transmission went out and so we had to take on a car payment they didn't say that they just figured out a way to get it through somebody loaned them a car somebody helped them out yeah somebody did that sometimes team members sometimes neighbors sometimes church members whatever and uh walking through the whole whole process pretty incredible very very well done and they're just neat people they're just fun to be around they're they're excellent and obviously her again the team just loves her everybody's known about her story and their story all the way for for years now uh again been on the our team here for 17 years as well and that's when they started the process.

1:14:41So very cool stuff, man. House and everything is paid off. It took a while. So what about you? What are you going to do? Yeah, talking to you. You know who I'm talking to. What are you going to do? You keep being normal. Have you not noticed that normal sucks? Really, you don't want to be normal at anything. Gross. No, we don't want to be normal. I want to be weird, like Shauna and Chad Addison and Alexa.

1:15:41We'll be right back.

1:16:09Unlocated for an online will. Well, unless your estate is over a million, I would actually say five or ten million, you probably don't need anything but a will. If you have a special needs child, you might want to put a special needs trust in the will that is formed upon your death. And how is that funded with life insurance typically until you've built some wealth? What do you need to start your online will? Well, you need to think about things like who do you want to get your stuff? Who do you want to take care of your kids? Who do you want to make decisions if you're incapacitated? The medical power of attorney and so on.

1:16:44Is an online will legally valid? Absolutely they are. They're valid with your state. By the way, probate law, the law that dictates whether a will works or not, is state law. It is not federal law. And so it's different from state to state what is required for a will to be legal and valid. If you move states and you're residing in a different state when you die, your will from the other state might not be valid. So you need a new one. And so jump on RamseySolutions.com slash willsquiz. You can find out if an online will is right for you. We can help you with that with the Mama Bear folks. They do a great job and or, you know, hook you up with an attorney even to get your if you've got a super complicated thing.

1:17:26but most of the time wills are not that complicated there's just a few items in there that you've got to get right and that includes the signature and notary pages which some states have different witnessing requirements and notary requirements and that that's the one biggest thing that causes them to become invalid yeah uh and so yeah just jump in and get that stuff done folks jay's in phoenix hi jay how are you hey i'm doing great dave thanks for taking my call sure what's up Um, so I'm 27 years old. My fiance is 29 and we are$85 ,000 in debt. Uh, I make a hundred thousand a year. She stays at home, raising our two kids, uh, doing full-time schooling.

1:18:08And we are also going to be having twins here, uh, in about five months. Wow. So I'm, uh, yeah, I got a lot going on there, but, uh, so I'm looking to get into, uh, homeownership after getting out of debt, of course. Right now, we just rent an apartment. And real estate always appealed to me. I definitely want to start off with a duplex or a fourplex. But before that, obviously, I just want to figure out how we should prioritize paying off all this debt that we have. And also, later on, towards my early 30s, I'm looking at switching careers and pursuing a pilot's license, which obviously I have to pay about$100 ,000 for and definitely don't want to go into debt for that.

1:18:54All right. Any advice? Yeah, I do have some advice. You've got a lot going on. So my first piece of advice is just to focus on one thing at a time or at least whatever the matters are at hand, because you're talking about a fourplex, talking about flying planes. You've got twins coming in five months. And the first thing I think on the table is the debt to talk about. But the biggest thing is these twins that are on the way, right? Absolutely. Okay. So I agree with you. I think the$85 ,000 in debt needs to be paid off. However, focusing on the matter at hand is these twins. And so I think the first thing that you're going to need to do is stack up the money as though you were paying off the$85 ,000, but instead of paying it off, just set it aside because we want to make sure that everything is good with your wife, with the twins, with the hospital bill, everything like that is square before we take all of our income and start, you know, pounding the step with it.

1:19:47Make sense? Yeah, yeah. Whose health insurance is covering this? That's a great question. So unfortunately, I don't really have any health insurance. My fiance doesn't either. She's actually in the process of getting, you know, state insurance, which is kind of difficult in Arizona. So worst case scenario, if she's not able to do that, then I will just figure out how to pay for an insurance policy for her. A little late, she's already got two babies coming. So getting that covered is going to be an interesting process. All right. So the first thing I would do is get married this weekend. I am really worried about your fiancé.

1:20:39She's getting ready to have four children, no income, and no husband. That ain't cool. You owe her more than that. So I get married this weekend. She's so exposed right now, financially and legally and everything else, that it is terrifying to me. I know you think everything's going to be okay, but the only thing I'm sure of as an old man is that everything is not ever okay. nothing ever turns out exactly like it's supposed to ever. And so you have to put everything in place you can to make sure you play defense as well. And so I'd get married this weekend. I'd get this insurance thing straightened out, and then I would do what Jade's saying and then start stacking cash as high as you can stack it.

1:21:25Because if you're ever going to have a problem with a pregnancy, the probabilities are much higher when you've got multiples. When were you planning to get married? When was it on the books for? Yeah, that's a great question. So the only reason why we haven't actually legally got married yet is because, you know, her schooling right now, she's not going to get the financial aid or assistance to be able to do that for free if we get married. So I don't want my wife to get off of welfare. So I don't want my girlfriend to get off welfare, so I'm not going to marry her. That's what you just said, dude.

1:22:00That's not okay. So her schooling is way not a problem. She's full-time taking care of kids. so she didn't need to worry about school right now anyway yeah you said she was going to be a stay-at-home mom so that's a moot point yeah i'll send we'll go back to school and we get out of debt and can save up some money but if the only way you get money is appearing to be poor by shacking up versus being married that's insincere sorry i'm going to call you on that one and so sorry not sorry so yeah i'm telling you man for her sake i'm begging her to force you into the preacher's office this weekend and and let's get this solved now then i'm going to pile up cash as high as i can pile it up and then when babies and mommy come home and we pay whatever medical bills that we don't get covered by this forced place insurance policy and i don't know what you're going to end up with there it's going to be expensive but um you've got to cover those bills and again twins are more than twice as expensive as singles and so uh there's just stuff that's going on there.

1:23:03And so we just want to be prepared for all that. Then when whatever money is left from that stack, when mama and babies come home healthy and everything's good, we apply to the debt snowball. And that's where we list it, Jay, smallest to largest, pay minimum payments on everything but the little one, attack the little one with a vengeance. When it's gone, attack the next one. When it's gone, attack the next one. Every time you pay off one, the payments that you don't have there anymore will help you pay off the next one. The snowball rolls over, picks up more snow you're making a hundred thousand dollars a year if i wrote this down yeah that's right but he needs to be going in phoenix arizona and you have now five children yeah i i heard that right he needs to be going hard in the paint until these twins are born and even after because this is about to be an expensive life yeah you're getting ready to have an expensive life after they come before they come to and as they come and so we've got to take care of every bit of that And then when we get out of debt, we'll start worrying about an emergency fund.

1:24:05When we get that done, we'll start talking about a down payment on a house. So you're three to five years out from home ownership. And that's if you work a lot and you get good raises and you're very, very, very careful with your money. That's about where you'll be, somewhere in there. And it's doable. It's not impossible. but you're going to have to start making better plans and better decisions than you've made to this point to push these things away. If some of that 85 ,000 is a$55 ,000 car you drive, sell it, my friend, sell it and get your life back. It owns you. You don't own it. But if it's just$75 ,000 in student loans, you can't do that.

1:24:46So that's the thing.

1:24:51all right i have now interviewed personally thousands and thousands and thousands of millionaires ramsey research has interviewed over 10 000 i've talked to multiple billionaires that are first generation rich the number of them that got there because the government paid for some part of their life is zero. If your best plan is to figure out the way for the government to pay some part of your life, you are not going to be successful in this life. Reset your thinking. Success does not come from Washington, D.C. Santa Claus does not live there. I know him. He lives in the North Pole.

1:25:49Many of you listen to the Ramsey show because you're sick and tired of getting nowhere with your money. You work too hard to live paycheck to paycheck with no money in the bank. But here's the deal. Just listening to the show won't change that. If you want different results, you have to do something different. We've helped millions of people save money, ditch debt, and build wealth. And you can too. But you got to have a game plan. And that begins with our get started assessment. Go to RamseySolutions.com slash start now, take the free quiz, and get your free step-by-step action plan. If you've had it with money stress and are ready to take control of your money for good, go to RamseySolutions.com slash start now.

1:26:44Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union Studios. Jade Walshaw, Ramsey personality, number one bestselling author, is my co-host today. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Lucy is in North Carolina. Hi, Lucy. How are you? Hi, Dave. Thank you so much for talking to me. Sure. What's up? So I wanted to reach out about just a situation that my husband and I are in. I don't really know what to do from here. So the backstory is in 2020, really at the peak of COVID, we actually moved to the mission field. We were missionaries for two years in the Dominican Republic. And once our two-year contract with the ministry was over, we flew back to North Carolina and my husband went straight back to work.

1:27:37And I actually got pregnant over there while we were on the mission field. So we came back with another little one and I actually started working in North Carolina as well. We put him in daycare. We quickly realized that the amount that I was making did not justify me working. So my husband and I agreed that staying home, me staying home with our child was the best option. And things got a lot better for us just in our marriage. But soon we realized that we were running out of anything that we had left. We were a missionary, so we didn't have a lot to begin with, but we really just don't know what to do from here.

1:28:21He's currently getting his license to be an electrician, so he's getting his hours, and then he can take the test to be certified. I also stay home with our second child. We've had another child since then, And we use our credit card to pay for things like gas to put in our cars and groceries. We ran the numbers about six months to a year ago, and we're in the red. So we don't have anything left over to put into savings or to put anything extra on a bill. We're about$50 ,000 in debt. So that's both of our student loans combined. and then his truck payment, which he owes about$7 ,000 on that, and then we owe about$5 ,000 on something on, or sorry, another$8 ,000 on our credit card, so that's what that is.

1:29:14But we're renting our little house right now. It's two bed, one bath, so it's very small. We don't live beyond our means. Yes, you do. You just said you did. What do you mean? You spend more than you make. Oh, yes, yes. That's the definition of living beyond your means. What exactly do you make? I know you said your husband's studying to be an electrician, but what's he making now? So his gross income is about$70 ,000. He works two jobs to help keep me at home. But, like, when I say that we don't live beyond our means, what I meant by that was— You're not living fancy. Right, right. We're not living fancy.

1:29:53I didn't think you were living fancy, but you are spending more than you make. That's not sustainable mathematically. That's why you're calling because it's freaking you out, and rightly so. What job were you doing before you had the two kids to make money? So when we moved back from the mission field, I got a job at Chick-fil-A, actually, but I was their office manager. So I did all of their numbers. I did their credit cards and all of their bills. I did, let's see, I was making 19 an hour. Okay, what did you bring home every month? Uh, I don't remember. I worked 40 hours a week. So, I mean, I can do the math really quick.

1:30:32Well, the reason I was asking is because you guys need money. Like there's two parts of this equation. When things are tight like this, you can cut everything from the budget, right? But if you're not bringing in enough money, the next part is now we have to work more. And you said your husband's making, working two jobs to bring in the 70K. The first thing that you said earlier was when you had the one who was in daycare, you guys said that you weren't making it enough. And I'm like, I have two kids, you know, I know it costs$1 ,200 for one kid to go to, you know, daycare for the month. And I'm like, surely you were making over$1 ,200 a month.

1:31:08Now with the second kid, I don't know. How old are they now? So my oldest will be four this month. And then my youngest will be two in January. Okay. So next year, one of them will be going to daycare or to kindergarten. But my question is, do you i guess my bigger question is can you make more than three thousand bucks a month which is what daycare costs or can you work from home while the kids nap that's another question well i do sell i do sell sourdough on the side so i do bring in you know sometimes it's a hundred dollars a week sometimes it's 20 you do what she sells sourdough which that's great but i'm talking about no i'm talking solving your big problem yeah different kind of bread like real bread Yeah.

1:31:51$20 or$100 does not solve this problem. No, I'm talking about you get an extra job that you work from home four hours a day while the kids are napping. Yeah. Or a call center thing that you pick up at night when they've gone to bed. Yeah. And your husband's not doing that much extra. When does he pass his license? I believe he has about two years left. Here's the thing. I'm going to level set this because there's part of this, if you called us, there's not going to be a quick fix for this. And everything that we're going to suggest is going to be, it's going to feel very off-putting and none of it's going to be convenient.

1:32:27So that's part of this that you kind of have to, if you can accept that point and get to acceptance there, then you'll be able to do this. But if you're looking for something that's going to kind of allow you to keep doing what you were doing and not really notice, then we don't have that solution. You're gonna, like, this is going to hurt because you need the money. You know what I'm saying? And That's the hard part. Yeah, you're in a mess. And it's an income versus outgo issue. And your outcome, as you said, is not fancy. You're not buying coach purses and doing all that kind of stuff on the one hand.

1:32:59But on the other hand, you've got two babies and only one person in the family is working. And he's not making a ton. And so he's making good money, but not great money. You didn't call me up with him making$170 ,000, making$70 ,000 in two years before he gets a bump. Yeah. How much is rent? It's$1 ,100. Not bad. Not bad. Okay. So what's his extra job? You dropped out. Come back again. He does trash valet, so he goes to apartment complexes and he picks up their trash. Why does he not do electrician as his extra job? I don't know. I don't know that he's ever really looked into that. That's a lot more than trash valet.

1:33:41I don't have to look into it to know that. You'd be surprised. He makes$25 for electrician right now, and then he makes$22 for his trash. Okay. Yeah, but I'm saying I'm going to guess and say if he helped guys wire houses because I'm thinking he's running the union track, right? No, sir. He works. No, he does residential electrician right now. Okay. All right. Yeah, I'd be shocked if he couldn't get some overtime doing that or work for someone else. to do that on the weekends um because he has the knowledge he just doesn't have the license correct yeah and um but i i don't care um he's gonna have to work until he's just completely exhausted to get these numbers fixed and you are going to have to pick up some income of some kind that's not 20 sourdough bread that's real money and i need you doing something that's three four hours a day and you're making a couple grand a month and you put that in there this thing starts to turn right side up and you can begin to pay extra on these things.

1:34:44Make sure you're putting nothing in retirement. Make sure you're not getting a tax refund. If they're taking too much out of his checks and you're getting a tax refund every year, you need to correct those W-2s and bring the right amount home, which is more than you've been bringing home. Don't loan the government money all year and then get it back. That's called a tax refund. Don't do that. And look around and figure out what else we've got that doesn't fit this scenario anymore. and yeah, I'm with Jade. This is going to hurt. It's going to be harder before it gets easier. Yeah, that's right.

1:35:30Hey guys, George Camel here. Do you ever feel like insurance companies only care about your money and not what you actually need? Well, there's a better way. When you go to Ramsey's Insurance Resource Hub, you'll start feeling confident that you're getting the right coverage that's truly best for you. You'll find helpful info on everything from life insurance, health insurance, identity theft protection, and more. And when you're ready to get the coverage you need, you can connect with a Ramsey-trusted insurance pro who will only get you what you need at the best price. Go to RamseySolutions.com slash insurance, RamseySolutions.com slash insurance.

1:36:11Real estate's wild out there. Interest rates are dropping, boys and girls. If you notice, we're down to five and a half on 15-year fixed. Market is picking up. Prices are starting to tick up already. Inventory's ticking up already. It's a crazy time if you're going to list or sell a house. You need a pro in your corner. High-octane, high-protein. Not Aunt Sally, who got her license three weeks ago. she's going to screw up the deal. I know she's your aunt. I know she's sweet. And you might want some of her sourdough bread, but don't buy real estate from her. Okay. That's it. Period. So don't do that.

1:36:47Now go to Ramsey Trusted. And we have vetted these agents are the top agents in the nation. They'll help you get the right house in the right way, the Ramsey way. And you can trust them. We've spent a lot of time coaching them, training them, doing due diligence on them. They are the top performers in your area. To learn more for free, go to RamseySolutions.com slash market, and we'll help you out with all of that. Lynn is in Philadelphia. Hi, Lynn. How are you? I'm good. Thank you so much for taking my call. Sure. What's up? So my husband and I, we currently live in the Philadelphia area, and we're talking about moving to the Charleston area once the school year is over.

1:37:31Why? The issue is that, because that's where his parents are and his family, and we've been up here for 20 years. We kind of want to be down there now. No family ties in Philly? None at all. Okay. My whole family is East Lake in Maryland, and yeah, no family ties in this area. Is there a job there in Charleston? For him, he is work from home, so home is where the Wi-Fi is. It doesn't matter where he is. The issue is my job. My job is specific to my area. I can't do this job in another state. And this job doesn't quite exist in the same capacity in the Charleston area. to do this job down there.

1:38:19What's your job? I'm a supports coordinator. I help individuals with intellectual disabilities get funding to Medicaid and Medicare to pay for staffing and supports and living expenses and things like that. Medicaid and Medicare are federal programs. Yes, but it's a weird, like, the state pays a certain amount. Yes, that's true. Okay. Yes. And South Carolina doesn't have the same program. It doesn't. It doesn't at all. It doesn't have the same infrastructure. It doesn't have the same kinds of jobs. It has similar things. Yeah, what do you make? It's similar. I make 50K right now. You can find 50K in Charleston.

1:39:04Yeah, I was going to say, at the lowest, like at the most common level, what is the job? Is it management? Is it project management? What is the act? Does that make sense? It's consulting. What's the task? Social work. Social work. Okay, so there's something social work existent in Charleston. It just may not be exactly in the field that you were before, right? Yeah. Yeah, and I've been looking. Like, I'm already, like, preemptively job hunting and looking. There would be anywhere from a$10 ,000 to$20 ,000 pay cut. You haven't finished your job search yet. I've been to Charleston, South Carolina.

1:39:42It's not 50 % of Philadelphia. I'm sorry. What's your husband make? Wrong, wrong, wrong. Bad. No, no. My husband makes about$120,$125 a year. Okay. So, no, I, you know, but he makes that wherever he goes, and you're going to sell the house. You own a home there in Philly? We own a home. Yeah, so I'm going to make, I'm going to make my, my, my flow chart is when I get a job, we move. And so I need to get a job now. And I don't have to take a pay cut to get a job. I disagree. I want to pay increase. Now let's reset our mind. I would love a pay increase. Yeah, well, I mean, let's be realistic. You have a unique set of skills, but the nuanced information that you have is useless there.

1:40:26You told me, and I believe you, in Charleston. But the big picture type of information you have and the ability to manipulate programs and pull them together for other people's benefit is a skill not many people have. Now, I don't know exactly where that applies in Charleston, but I want you to start thinking a little bit broader. I'm going to send you a copy of Ken Coleman's book, Finding the Work You're Wired to Do, and I'm also going to send the book Proximity Principle, which might be like our worst-case scenario if you don't get the job with the raise, like I'm suggesting, that you get a job close to your old pay with the potential for a raise by getting in the proximity of people doing what it is you want to end up doing.

1:41:13But once we kill the idea that you're going to find the exact program, which I'm buying you on that one, I think you're right. Because I did leave out the part where Medicaid and Medicare is state, half of it is state funded. And some states are more sophisticated in their application of that stuff than others. So I'm going with you. South Carolina probably doesn't have that program. But they've got other ones, and they've got stuff that's so, to the layman looking in from the outside, that's so similar, but to you it looks way different. That's true. And that's the one you need to be doing. And I don't know what it is exactly, but you have the unique gifting of working with special needs and working with the government program to pull things together to cause people's lives to be benefited.

1:41:59That's a gift, and not many people can do the things that you do. So I've just got to find a place to apply that that adds enough value that they're paying a measly 50 grand. It's not like you're trying to look for a half million dollar job. It's a$50 ,000 job. You can make that almost at Target working 40 hours a week. I mean, it's 20 bucks an hour now at Target. So, you know, that's I want you to kind of get in that mindset that this is not a it's certainly not a$20 ,000. I wouldn't accept a$20 ,000 job. That's a cut by$20 ,000. No, no, no, no. So hang on. We'll have the Christian pick up and send you all that stuff.

1:42:38I think you're better than you're giving yourself credit for. But you need to pan back and have a broader vision of how your skill sets can apply. And when you do that, you're going to land the job. And when you do that, you're going to move. And that's how I would do it. Don't set yourself up to end a we had to move. You don't have to move. There's no hurry. The only hurry is emotions. You're wanting to move. I don't blame you. Yeah, that's true. Once I get my mind all ready in Charleston, it's hard to do anything. It's hard to do that. But, yeah, think that through that way. Folks, let me tell you something that Ken Coleman and I have talked about for years, and Jade has been in on these discussions.

1:43:18there's something about changing jobs uh against your will oh you get laid off or your husband moves and gets transferred so you got to go get a new job or get fired or whatever it's interesting that the human brain for some reason we've noticed this with people immediately thinks that I have to get paid less. That I lost my job and I couldn't find another job and so I get paid less. As opposed to you were sitting there in the job, everything's going good, and somebody calls you up and offers you$20 ,000 more than you used to make. Right. Why can't it be a glass half full? And you go, well, of course I'm going to do that.

1:44:10And so you leave and you go take the new job with a$20 ,000 or$30 ,000,$50 ,000 raise, right? but that job was there for the person that does the same job you do that got laid off two weeks ago somewhere else and they don't think about the$70 ,000 in her case$20 ,000 raise they think about the$30 ,000 for some reason it's something about well I just can't do that and so I end up with less yeah and that is just a mindset thing and I remember motivational speaker many many years ago telling the story. He said, let's pretend that you went to New York City and you were interviewing for a job and you really didn't think you were good enough to get the job.

1:44:51Your confidence wasn't strong. The morning you get ready to walk out of the hotel room to do the interview, the phone rings and it's your wife and she says, we just won the lottery. We got a million dollars. Don't go interview, just come home. And you go to your, well, what have I got to lose? I'll just go down and talk to him anyway. But now you don't need the job anymore. Right. And you walk in and you get the job plus a signing bonus because you didn't need the job. Then you come back to your room and the wife says, oh, you know, we made a mistake. We didn't get the money. What changed there?

1:45:23Nothing except your mindset. Yeah, that's good. Your mindset changed and how you approached, how you walked in to do the job interview, the way you carried yourself, your voice tone, the pace of your voice, the energy level you had, that last little shine on the shoes, whatever it was. That's good.

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1:47:04In the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on the debt-free stage, Jose and Janine are with us. Hey guys, how are you? Good. Good, Dave. How are you? Better than I deserve. Where do you guys live? Live in Ringe, New Hampshire, which is about 40 minutes west of Manchester, New Hampshire. Cool. Welcome to Nashville. That's a bit of a haul. Good to have you guys. How much debt have you two paid off? So we paid off$283 ,218. Wow. Wow. Good for you. How long did that take? Took us nine years. Good for you. And your range of income during that nine years? So our starting income was$112 ,973. Our ending income was$133 ,577.

1:47:49Cool. What do y 'all do for a living? Customer service. And I'm in sales, self-packaging. Very cool. Good for y 'all. And is the$283 ,000 your house? $283 ,000 is our house. I'm looking at weird people! Yes, you are. Why, you've got the t-shirts on that say it's okay to be weird. I like it. Congratulations, you two. What's this house worth? So the house is worth$466 ,000. I like it. Good for you. And how much money is saved in retirement? We've got$587 ,000 saved in retirement. We're looking at Baby Steps Millionaires. Way to go, guys. Y 'all are so weird. I'm proud of you. Well done. Well done.

1:48:32How many millionaires in your family? Zero. One. One. You. Jose, how old are you? I'm 52. Wow, way to go. Good job, you guys. That is amazing. I'm so proud of you. Thank you. Did you ever think when the two of you pups got married a couple years back, how long y 'all been married? We're celebrating our 20-year anniversary. 20 years ago, you looked down, and did you ever think? Never. No. No, we kept saying someday. Yeah. But how? I realized someday wasn't on the calendar. So what sparked it then? I mean, what caused you from going from someday to today's the day? So I was lucky enough to have a really good friend, Jason Gardner, a mentor of mine who actually shared your podcast with me.

1:49:20We go to the gym regularly, and he said, hey, I think you should listen to this guy. And kind of had me in the car locked for half hour or so. So we'd listen to your show and I made the big mistake. I got, I, you know, got on board and came home and I said, I got this great plan, honey. We're going to sell your car. You did it. I stepped in it big. How long did it take to get your foot out of that? Oh, a while actually. Yeah. Took a little while. Janine, I want to hear that from your side. He said, I have this plan. I want to sell you a car. And I went, Oh no, you're not. You need a new plan. So how'd you get on board then?

1:50:08What happened? How did you bring that around? How'd you straighten that mess up, Jose? So, uh, actually listening to someone else's, uh, debt-free scream. Uh, I remember somebody saying, um, your Y has to be bigger than your butt. And I just found that comment to be funny, but it stuck with me because we needed to have a strong enough reason for why we were going to do this and why we wanted to get out of debt. And ultimately, that reason was we didn't really know anyone who was debt-free. But we knew that we wanted to do this journey because we didn't want to grow old and still be working beyond our retirement years.

1:50:47We wanted to be able to enjoy our retirement. As Dave, as you say, live and give like never before so later you can live and give like never before and that was our main goal yeah way to go you two so janine when you all sat down start talking about the why that's when we figured out what we got to do right yes yeah yeah it took a little while of sitting down and budgeting and letting my guard down the wall was was there yeah sure sure that's fair well it should be yeah i mean you got you have to have them you have to go what you got another scheme yeah we're gonna have a yard sale we're gonna sell your car we're gonna we're gonna sell everything and somehow it was all your stuff who knew oh boy so great that is great i'm proud of you guys very very well done who was cheering you on while you were doing this uh so we've got we've got our friend uh jason and And there was a couple other guys that I was able to work with that are also cheering us on, Mike Leone and a few others, Evangard.

1:52:00And they're actually following your plan now because of our story. And so it's exciting. Yeah, it's spreading. That's great. I like it. What are you going to do to celebrate? We're going to have a really good dinner tonight. All right. I love it. We are going out to eat. I like it. Go for it. Have you booked a restaurant already? No, no, not yet. Oh, well. You got to get on it. And there's some good food in Nashville now. You can go big here now. And guess what? You're millionaires without a house payment. Go big. That's right. Go big. Enjoy that bottle of wine. Yeah. I want you to. That's fabulous.

1:52:35Congratulations, you guys. Thank you. Very cool. So what do you all tell people the key to getting out of debt is? Submit.

1:52:46Submit to somebody else's plan that is a proven success because it wasn't until I did that that I started seeing my life change. When I came to Christ, I submitted to him. When I came to my finances, I submitted to this plan, and it's been just beautiful, beautiful. Very cool. What do you tell people, Janine? Intentional. You need to be intentional. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Those are good words. Mm-hmm. intentional and submit good words good words that is exactly how it works and so yeah if you're going to hire a personal trainer and he's got a six-pack and you got a keg you probably ought to listen probably ought to submit there's something going on there some there's a difference between these two things this is a sesame street moment one of these things is not like the other and so yeah that's the thing man it's it's true about everything we do we all have to find something.

1:53:44And it's, you know, and it is helpful when you have Christ in your life, because you've already learned how to submit to a greater power that loves you. It's got a plan that's, you know, and it's not, it's to bring you hope and not bring you harm and so on. And so then when you come along to something else, it's a biblical concept, like these concepts, and you go, okay, I'm going to submit to that. And we're going to do that that way. And then you do another one, and then you do another one. And so it's amazing what happens to your life. That's how people's lives get transformed. So proud of y 'all.

1:54:16Way to go. Very, very cool. I don't know if I've talked to a millionaire today. That's pretty cool. That's pretty cool. I need to get my daily quota. That's right. All right. Jose and Janine, Manchester, New Hampshire,$283 ,000 paid off. House and everything. Baby steps millionaires by 52 years old, making$112 ,000 to$133 ,000. Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream. Three, two, one. We're jet free! Yeah! Woo-hoo! Yeah! Oh, look at them. I love it. So good. I love it. They've been 20 years married, came from New Hampshire to do this, dressed the part, had the T-shirts, the matching dress, the whole bit, and got it dialed in, man.

1:55:10But look, like you can see it brought them together. It's emotional. You can see that. Yeah. Yeah. Once he got over trying to sell her car. Right. Right. Wow. So good. Very well done. Very well done. That's what it is. I mean, we almost never find a couple, like never, that are at odds with each other, that hate each other, that do this. Of course. You know, we never find people that it's easy. I mean, occasionally we run into one of those. Yeah. Something happens, they get some easy money. But most of the time, these debt-free screams, I mean, this is nine years. Yep, yep. In a world where people can't stick with something for nine minutes, and they stuck with it for nine freaking years.

1:55:58Wow, yeah. The number one character quality of successful people, perseverance. They don't quit. They don't quit. They don't quit. Nine years. That's where all that emotion comes from. I know. Nine years. Yeah, and now they win. I love it. I love it. I love it.

1:56:39Take care.

1:57:04Our scripture of the day, Romans 16 and 19, everyone has heard about your obedience, so I rejoice because of you, but I want you to be wise about what is good and innocent about what is evil. Thomas Sowell said, much of the social history of the Western world over the past three decades has involved replacing what worked with what sounded good.

1:57:32That's interesting. That's just dead on right there. He's a quote machine. Beth is in Texas. Hi, Beth. How are you? I'm good, Mr. Ramsey and Jay. Thank you so much for taking my call on a long time, Fan. Thank you. How can we help? I'm hoping to make this question efficient because I feel like a lot can be packed into it. But my husband and I both come from, I would say, extreme wealthy families. And we have five children of our own. And our older ones are dating with the purpose of marriage now. and how we can navigate potential marriages and prenuptial agreements. And I was just wondering how you handled your children getting married.

1:58:13What a great question. So how much you said extreme wealth. So it's all in your husband's name now, right? No. So my side and his side, they both have wealth of their own. and so one side has given all of our children a lot of stock between 150 and 200 ,000 in stock and then when they're 16 they get a vehicle and then they're possibly going to get a house and so just things like that with me staying on top of entitlement I promise you really working on that but letting them enjoy their grandchildren and seeing them getting to enjoy it, but also making sure that they stay servant-minded and not, you know, there's just a lot in that.

1:59:09There's just a lot in that. Yeah, there is. There's a weird combination between. It is. It's hard. It's, um, I, now that I'm the other side of it and we're on the grandkids and the kids have all been married for at least a decade, all through all Gen 2 Ramses have been married at least a decade. and I'm so I'm kind of past it I look back and I used to say I hit the son-in-law lottery and then I went uh no I actually told my girls taught my girls how to pick and they picked good ones because I ran off the losers you know and um so I the instruction and the lack of entitlement and the spiritual underpinning is more responsible for ours picking well and more responsible then as a result of that for not having the need for a prenup and not having the attitude that it matters.

2:00:11Right.

2:00:16Can I, I want to jump in as devil's advocate a bit. So sometimes we get the call from the actual spouse, the person who's going to marry someone, and they say, hey, I have a lot of money, and I have a lot of money in my family, and I'm thinking about doing this prenup. And we're not necessarily against them when there's a certain number of money involved. So how do you— Mainly if there's a large discrepancy. Yeah, where do you—where does that line fall? Beth, you and your husband both had wealth in the background. You're both second-gen wealth, right? And we both, we signed a prenup, and we've been married 21 years this month.

2:00:53Okay. And that's okay if you just do that. If you just do that straight up. If there's a concern and you just do that straight up, because you're talking about a million dollars or something. You're not talking about$10 million. You're not talking about$100 million. No, we're talking, I mean, it's over$50 million each side. Not yet. No, no, no, no, no. I'm just saying potential and responsibility. Okay, now there's two different subjects, okay? the subject number one is the current asset base of the person getting married yes sir i'm sorry and that's under a million it is 200 000 in stock maybe a house right and so um and so that's not that's not as big a concern if they lost all of that in a nasty divorce because there was no prenup then we would be no big deal because they're getting 50 million yes sir okay So that's the difference between their personal wealth and your family.

2:01:45So I would spend 90 % of my energy on training the child, even as an adult prior to marriage, that they are not the owner. They're the manager of God's resources. And it sounds like you're already doing all of that. Okay. You leaned in immediately on no entitlement. You know, you, you know, you're not raising trust fund babies. Damn it. You know, that's what you said, right? I heard you. Yes, sir. I heard you, and I like that. Okay. So now that solves part of it. Now, then the second part is the generational wealth. I can give you a fix for that that's no prenups that we did. Okay. We did that with the Ramsey company, Ramsey Solutions Company.

2:02:28It goes to the Ramsey Children's Trust. Yes, sir. The stock is owned by the trust. Okay. And the terms of the trust are you have to be blood relative. Okay. Or you can't touch it. So they're out. So the outlaws are out, period. And no divorce court judge can interfere with that trust in any state. And so the trust has more power than divorce court judge. So that trust, no, if something happens with one of my kids and they get divorced, first their spouse is not going to end up owning part of this because this is in the trust and so you could take portions of that wealth whether it's a piece of a large piece of property or a series of properties the ranch whatever it is a a segment of whatever and leave it into a children's trust there's other estate planning benefits to that too by the way uh that your estate planner can help you with and you need some estate planning if you're sitting on 50 million because you've got a problem generational you got a problem you're going to blow out the exemptions and have state tax um unless that stuff's already in a trust of some kind so you've got some generational skipping trust stuff to learn about and do but anyway the way we one of our largest assets is this company and probably our second largest assets is this campus and both of them are owned by the children's trust and so some of the other stuff they might get or not get in a divorce because it's not in trust and there's not any prenups.

2:04:01Um, but that's how we did it. We put the big stuff in the trust at death or before death. And the trust has a no blood, no one, but blood. So grandkids are in, but, uh, if you're, you know, you weren't born a Ramsey, you're not in it. No matter what happens. I think my husband's side has got quite a bit of that, Like, he's got a trust that has some sort of that stuff in it. Yeah. But my side, it's not talked about as much, but we're getting there. You need to because it's going to cost you$10 million if you don't. Yes, sir. I know. Believe me. Yeah. But anyway, once you get that settled, once it's in your control, your will could state that it's left to a children's trust whatever it is and you could have that same provision i've got and then there's no need for a prenup okay so i mean but they still can end up trust fund babies if you don't do the other stuff oh i'm telling you then we don't need that yeah no they can be i mean you leave them money they can be idiots right i i know yeah you gotta train them to not preach to them it's not ours We are stewards of God.

2:05:16And you'll know that they get that if they feel the weight of the wealth rather than the celebration like they hit the lottery. Yes, sir. For sure. Sometimes I see our kids' shoulders drop. Like there's a burden of this. There is. It's a burden to it. It can be. You have to manage it for Jesus. That's your job. And to honor my parents for working so hard. The honor, it's a big responsibility, but he didn't mess up. God didn't mess up. He knew. No, it's not a mistake. It's not a mistake, and somebody's got to manage it. It might as well not be the other side. That's right. Yeah, I mean, this idea.

2:05:58So you can manage it for God's glory, and that includes taking care of your family, and that includes some enjoyment of the money, but not exclusive enjoyment of the money. It includes working. Our kids have to work. You're not in the trust if you don't work. so if you're on the back of a yacht doing cocaine with your girlfriend while you're married to somebody else you don't you're not in the trust anymore you're done uh you can you can lose that too yeah so yeah i mean we put provisions in there to take care of this stuff because we want it to be a blessing and not a curse and that's the bottom line of what she's asking right right and it can be done but most of it is in the training of the next generation most of it that puts us our of the ramsey show in the books we'll be back with you before you know it in the meantime remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.