You’ll Always Live Paycheck-to-Paycheck Until You Have a Budget

24:48Question two would be, like you said, these properties aren't making you any money, right? Right. So my, since they're not making money, and since you could benefit from some simplicity, I would recommend selling them since they're all worth more. And you could actually make some cash on these things, get out of these$100 ,000 of HELOCs, and obviously, you know, clear all your other personal debt and kind of start this idea over from scratch and just build it the right way. because if you do that and you're able to use some of this money, because, I mean, we could go through it if you want. If you were to sell all three, what would you end up with after fees and everything?

25:32I think if selling all three, I think we would clear the$100 ,000 HELOC and the$17 ,000 in debt. I think that is about it. And they'd be at zero. We would basically walk away. We would be at zero debt except for our primary residence. Tell them what he's won, Jade. Well, you've won peace and now you've won the ability to focus in on your security, which is your primary residence. What do you owe on that? Shoot, a hundred and no, what are we on that? I'm sorry, I'm not prepared for that. That's okay. Around a hundred and a half, something around there. A hundred and a hundred and sixty. Okay. One sixty.

26:09And then what's you guys' income without the, I mean, your properties weren't making anything, but what's your income? um after like take home i think we're at about 110 okay so with that income and with what you owe on the mortgage i mean with a little intensity or with just being intentional you could clear your own mortgage out if you wanted to very very quickly and then now you can start this real estate dream if you even wanted to like this might have been your last i don't know maybe you're sick of it at this point but now you could go back in and say okay next time we do this, we're going to do it for cash.

26:43We're going to move a lot slower. And we're going to make sure that no matter what, we're not putting ourself in a risky spot and we're going to be making money on whatever we do. Yeah. Yeah. That's, that's been the gist of how we've been feeling. I just, uh, it was hard to let go of the idea that, you know, down the line, we would have all this rental income, but I'm afraid we won't even make it there.

27:07Ken Coleman:Not now, but to Jade's point, if you clear all this and now you go about it the right way, you still have time. How old are you? 44. And what do you have in retirement? About 30K. Okay, so we got to build that. Yeah. I am not thinking about houses. Let me tell you why. Just to kind of, if I was in your shoes, this may help your stomach and your heart sell these three homes. Here's why. Okay. The three homes, let's say that you guys were cash flow positive, which you're not on these things. But let's just say, you know, because we hear this call all the time. Somebody will say, well, we're clearing about$600 to$800 a month on these things.

27:47Ken Coleman:Or let's go to$1 ,000. Let's do a round number. Let me get$1 ,000 a month, free and clear. All right. That's$12 ,000 a year. Okay. Yeah. That doesn't include expenses, right? Right. Home repairs. $12 ,000. I would rather be investing in the investment strategy that Ramsey teaches than I would be fiddling around with houses, especially in your shoes. You're not what I would call completely behind the eight ball. You're a little bit behind at your age with only$30 ,000. But the baby steps is the play for you. So you get this debt out of the way by selling these houses. And now we attack baby step three, go to three to six months of your expenses.

28:27Ken Coleman:And then we think, all right, now we're all baby step four in the sense of we're now 15 % fully funded retirement accounts. And let's see what happens above and beyond that. But I just think for a lot of people, the rental house income, it just looks and smells and sounds way better than it actually is. It's a lot of work. A lot of work for$12 ,000? dollars it will never be me ken it's too much i'm not doing it yeah no on the other hand i look at my little dashboard every month and i go oh look what the stock market did today that's true that's the true i made money and i was snoring you know there's like i got a guy in the audience thumbs up man he's a you're a fellow snorer but we're making money while we snore bro yes sir that's the play yeah everybody everybody talks about real estate like it's some form of passive income.

29:25It's so not passive. But I think, I mean, I don't know what your wife says about this. You guys have to go home and talk about it. But I think to solve for the two things that you said, which is, hey, it's fair to say I could benefit from some simplicity. And the truth is these things aren't making me any money anyway, but you are losing your peace over them. So your blood pressure is going to drop.

29:48Ken Coleman:You're going to sleep better. The baby steps is the plan for you, Paul. It's not too late, but I would say at 41, this is the time to make this move. And let me just be fair. Let me, cause, cause somebody is listening and going, gosh, you know, anytime somebody calls them with real estate, you guys tell them to sell it. That's not necessarily true. If he had called in and said, Hey, I've got these three properties, they're killing it, you know, banging. I would have maybe suggested selling one possibly to clear some debt. And I would have said, yeah, keep the others. Here's the plan to pay them off.

30:17Like there, there is a time where somebody calls in and they've gone and done what they're going to do. That's right. And it's not always about telling them to, you know, fold everything and start from scratch. That's right. So just putting that out there.

30:29Ken Coleman:Actually, it's a great point. It depends on a person's financial position. I know some of you are going, well, Ken, OK, my little rant about the$12 ,000, that's OK if you're no debt. Yes. And your retirement's great. And this is something we're going, we're trying to pay this off as quick as we can. Yeah, right. And now we're not doing it for the$12 ,000 a year. we're doing this for a house that, you know, is going to be worth 400 grand and we're going to pay it off in a year. Now that's real money. Right. That's 400 grand cash that I could unload. That's the idea. So we're not anti real estate.

31:00Ken Coleman:It's just, does it fit the baby steps? Does it fit your financial situation? That's the question.

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32:54Ken Coleman:Hey, if y 'all are enjoying the show, if it's helping you, would you help us? You can do that by liking the show, whether you're listening on podcasts or on YouTube, subscribing on any of those platforms. And of course, share, share, share. That helps us so much. There's no marketing strategy in the world that competes with the good old-fashioned word of mouth, and that's how you can help us. So thank you for those that do, and we'd love for you to continue to help us there. Mary is up now in Boston, Massachusetts. Mary, how can we help? Hi. Yeah, I really would like to retire, but I'm very nervous about it.

33:29I'm not sure I can afford it.

33:31Ken Coleman:Okay. Give us some numbers so we can figure this out with you. Okay. Well, I'm still working. I work full time I'm 71 what is your income? it's about$100 ,000 great, what do you do? I'm sorry? what do you do for a living? sales what are you selling? electrical supplies nice, good for you I'm just curious because this is awesome I think you're the hero of today's show that is so fantastic and still be crushing it. Is it straight commission or is it a base plus commission? No, straight salary. Straight salary. Oh, a salary. Okay, good. Wow, great. Good for you. Okay, all right, so walk us through what you have.

34:16Ken Coleman:Yeah, what do you already have? Well, I have about a million and a half in a 401k. Okay. I have about a million and a half in stocks, probably a little more than that. Mary, I've got great news. This is breaking news. It's coming in my right ear right now. I'm getting this fresh from James. Right here, breaking news. He says you're fine, Mary. I mean, I have$3 million. I was getting out my calculator like we were going to have real work to do. I was nervous for you. I have a lot of expenses, though. What are your expenses? Okay, yeah, let's hear it. Well, I have two houses, two cars. I mean, they're paid for, but...

34:55Then they're assets. Taxes, insurance. Mary.

34:58Ken Coleman:You only need one car, so sell the other car, but it's not costing you. Well, they're in different states. Okay, well, we can clear that up. Why are they different states? You got two homes in two states. Yes. Are the homes paid for? Yes. What are the states? Is one your wintering home and one is your summering home? Yes. Okay. Mary, America is about to get mad at you. You are truly living the dream, Mary. We're having a little bit of fun, but in all honesty, you're in great shape. You have two paid-for homes. You have two paid for cars. What are these expenses that you said you have that are so, so high that$3 million, as it continues to grow, is not going to be enough for you?

35:45Ken Coleman:What are we missing? Well, I don't know. It's about$45 ,000 a year, the expenses for insurance, and that's without any emergencies. So insurances on all your assets. I don't get any pension. Right. But my guess is you're going to have a pretty nice Social Security benefit, is my guess. And you'll draw from your accounts. Well, it's about$4 ,400. Sweetheart, how much does it take for you to live every month? Because I know you know the answer to this, Mary. What is your top-line expense for everything, all in, food, gas, clothing, everything? Well, it's about, I don't know. Oh, come on. You don't have a mortgage.

36:32Ken Coleman:it's just you you're not married right what do you need to live take an educated guess of what you need every month to live comfortably how much money probably about four thousand four thousand okay you're gonna have a social security payment of four thousand four hundred dollars so we've got that and then you've got three million that is continuing to grow jade i i don't think i'm getting through to mary she's in great shape you're in great shape there's there this in the words of ken coleman this is this is a nothing burger this is a nothing burger yes nothing there this has got ketchup mustard pickle lettuce the whole it's the works you are great mary great job do you know how many people uh how many people who are in their 20s wish they had a job that paid them a hundred thousand that would chew their right leg off on camera to have your portfolio yeah you're doing so well but i'm gonna i'm gonna lose that why you know when i retire that's fine What are you losing?

37:31You will lose the job. No, no, no, you won't. You won't. You will lose the job because you will choose, hey, I don't want to work anymore. Then you can look over to any of these retirement accounts and say, I'd like to make$100 ,000 a year, please. And they're going to go, okay, you can afford that.

37:46Ken Coleman:And by the way, you've got that. How long would that actually last me? Your whole life. Because you're not touching. Okay, let's teach for a minute because I want to make sure you understand this. So if you have this money invested the way it sounds like you do, you should be making on average annualized rate of return. You should be somewhere around the 9-10 % mark. That is when you take all the years that you've had it invested and average those rates of return. It should be around 10%. So that means let's just take a round number like, I don't know,$1 million. dollars. If you've been making 10 % on that, what is 10 %?

38:25$100 ,000. Does that make sense? So you should be able to live off the interest alone without touching the nest egg. Does that make sense? If it doesn't, I'll explain it another way.

38:37Ken Coleman:Well, let's use real numbers. You've got a total of, you've got over$3 million in retirement accounts. That's what you told us. Right. And I do have some CDs and cash. I'm sure you do. Oh, listen, none of this is a surprise. I think you've got more money buried in your backyard than most people make in a year. I think there's probably that level. Sometimes they do. Sometimes they do bury it. I know you do. The point, Mary, is you have enough. How do I know these things? If you really lived off of 10%, you could take a$300 ,000 salary. Well, that's exactly right. We would account for inflation, and we would account for, I don't know if this is in Roth or what it's in.

39:12So there are some things to consider here, but none of it, none of those details are going to drain your nest eggs. None of those details are going to cause you to be even close to broke. OK, I I would go on. I would stand on business today and say, if you retired today and took your same salary, you would be fine. Now, if you don't believe me, that's OK. I would encourage you to get with a smart vester and let them show you this.

39:39Ken Coleman:Here's what we haven't discussed yet, Mary. OK. Yeah. The$3 million you have right now, just the$3 million. You've got more than$3 million, but at this point there's no need to get into it. I think close to the$4. Oh, sure, of course. Let's just say$3 for a moment. Okay? Based on what Jade told you earlier with the historical return of the stock market that Jade laid out, you realize that you're a young and vibrant 71. Seven years from now at 78, Jade, you want to tell her what that$3 million is going to be worth? Yeah. So we call it like a rule of seven, a lump sum generally at a rate, the right rate of return will double every seven years.

40:16Ken Coleman:So that means you're with, you got 6 million. Yeah. And the truth is you got four. So let's just have some fun, Mary. So 8 million. $8 million at 78. I mean, this is like, this is like you and your fried green tomatoes annual trip. We're blowing it in Barbados. We're having a blast. Like you are way ahead of the game. You should be, what you should have done was called Ken and I to invite us to your retirement celebration. I will MC it and Jade will sing. Yeah. It's a combo. It's a great combo. And all we ask for is four-star accommodations and travel expenses. That's all we ask for, Mary. That's right.

40:56Ken Coleman:That's right. No, Mary, we're having fun. Well, the market hasn't been that great, though. What? That it's going to double in seven years. No, Mary, this is, you can actually go, you can Google this one. Yeah, this is real, Mom. You can really Google this. Check us on this. This is the historical path of the stock market over its entire existence. Okay. This is a rate of return that you can expect. But even if you didn't get the 9 % to 10 % that Jade, all right, let's go conservative. Okay. Yeah. Let's go 6%. Run your numbers on 6%. And here's what we really want you to do. Do you have somebody that manages your money, a licensed professional?

41:34No, I do it on my own. oh my gosh Mary

41:37Ken Coleman:you are such a rock star I mean the superlatives I can't summon enough okay here's what I want you to do I don't want to get on Mary's bad side we're going to put you on hold and Kelly is amazing and Kelly let's make sure she gets to the Smartmaster Pro section of our website at RamseySolutions.com and I want you Kelly will walk you through this but I want you to interview three, four, five in your area and Mary I know you've got a gut and go with your gut on the one you trust the most and help let them tell you what they think your portfolio is going to turn into and where you are. And then if you choose to have them work with you, great.

42:12Ken Coleman:But trust me, these folks are affiliated with us in the sense that they believe what we believe and they'll back what Jay and I are saying up and show you real numbers. So thank you for calling, Mary. Way to go. And can we just slow clap? The whole audience is clapping for Mary. This is what we do. This is why we do it. Mary, you're the poster child. You won.

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44:00Ken Coleman:That's chministries.org slash budget.

44:16Ken Coleman:This is the Ramsey Show where America hangs out to talk about their money, their work, and their relationships. And we're so glad you've joined us. I'm Ken Coleman. The incomparably fabulous Jade Warshaw joins me. The phone number is 888-825-5225. Mike is up in Illinois. Mike, how can we help today? Hi, good morning. So I just had a question for you guys on, we are new to you guys' program, and I'm talking really new, like maybe three or four days. Welcome aboard, sir. Yeah, we don't really have a lot. And I'm not even going to say like this is even overwhelming for us because it's truly not. We're in a pretty good spot, I feel.

44:58All right. We're about 150 a year between the two of us. And we got about 45 ,000 in our cars, 57 ,000 on our house. We got really lucky on our house. Wow. Yeah. So we're good. We do have some credit card about between 7 and 10. And we got some medical about 4. but we did some home improvement and we took out borrowed against ourselves we took the advice of somebody else and borrowed against our 401k so we have how much? about$25 ,000

45:36Ken Coleman:you're going to love the tax on that pal yeah I know that's going to feel great we do have it paid down to maybe $20 ,000 I'm guessing So we're just at a 401k loan. So we're paying that back. But my question was, is because we want to attack, we want to tackle all this pretty aggressive, you know, following the program. should we take the hit on the 401k, get rid of that big monthly that we have there, and then apply that$1 ,000 a month towards paying everything else off more aggressive. And then put the money back quickly. You know what I mean? It just seems like the way we've been kind of running the numbers, That is, if we were to take away from, use that money from the 401k, the monthly part of it, we would be able to go really aggressive and really pay this down because we're super excited to get towards the investing part.

46:46Ken Coleman:Are you familiar with our debt snowball? I know you're three or four days in, so that's why I'm asking. Are you familiar with the debt snowball? Yeah, you know, and I think so familiar with the Ramsey name, just didn't really know about it. That's fine. So let Jade coach you through what exactly we would do if we were in your shoes. Yeah, I'm going to simplify this for you because I'm going to go back and kind of assess. Can I just take a moment and go back and assess? Do another diagnostic? Yeah, because then it will help us be in the right mindset to talk about the solution. The problem is, you know, you make a really great income, you and your wife combined.

47:24And the sad part about this is you didn't realize it. And so you let people trick you into thinking you needed to use debt to do all of the things that honestly you could have done with your income because it's so great. And the fact that your mortgage is only$57 ,000. And so I kind of want you to get your head around the fact that your income and your money is real money and it's better than borrowed money. And somewhere in your brain, you started thinking that borrowed money was better than your actual money. And I really want you to spend some time thinking about that because I never want you to be here again.

48:00Sure. Just not to interrupt you there real quick, but the only thing that kind of put us in that, I guess I didn't say in the beginning, is I went through a divorce 10 years ago. So I did have child support. That was a lot of child support, which is pretty substantial. Sure. Not complaining about it. No, I hear you. my kids. But that did play a huge part in us financially. Sure. It played a huge part, but it didn't make you take out debt. You still chose to do that. So I just want you to go forward from today going, you know what, like my dollars are better than borrowed dollars. And yeah, to Ken's point, let's walk this thing out.

48:43Because if you have something like a 401k loan, if you owe money to the IRS, that business is jumping to the top of the list. So typically, what we would tell people to do is list your debt smallest to largest. But there are a couple of exceptions. And like I said, owing money to the federal government is one of them. And having something like a HELOC is, or I'm sorry, having something like a 401k loan is one of them, because the implications around that are very, very big. And so for this, for this, I would say to you, like, you got to understand every minute that you don't pay this back is a interest that you're missing out on.

49:20Every moment that you don't pay this back means if something happens and your job is on the line, it's going to become paid due in full 12 months after you were let go. So there's a lot here around that. So I would, I would get in full gear on this and start getting it knocked out. Now, the good news is you've got 150K of income, but are you guys on a budget? Yeah, so we kind of use a calendar system. We kind of write everything out on due dates and everything on our calendar. Good. My wife, she's pretty on top of it. So we do know exactly what to do, when, where, and we pay weeks ahead. Good.

49:59So how much are you guys putting extra on debt every single month?

50:06Not a whole lot. Why? you have you don't have hardly a mortgage and you make this great income what are those cars yeah i wonder what those two yeah i think the car payments are pretty high what are they um uh we got one that's 600 and some change ish and then another one that's four or something i believe listen it's not as bad as it's not as bad as it could be that's not what's taking your income what's taking your income is you guys aren't you're not on a budget you're still spending a lot of money in a lot of areas. It's not the 4 ,000 of medical debt. It's not that because I can guess what the 10 ,000 of credit cards payment is.

50:44It's you guys are living like 150 ,000 is the be all end all. And I think that's what it is. And I'm sure you're still contributing to retirement. Am I right? Oh, yeah. Yeah. I'm doing the match. And then I'm doing just the match right now. And And then my wife's doing 10%. So let Ken and I give you a rundown because you did say you're brand new to the baby steps. So let's just dial it in. And from here, you're going to get to choose. Do you want to do it? Do you want to not do it? And that's your choice to make with you and your wife later. So what we would say is baby step one. When you're in your situation, baby step one is, hey, I need to go down to$1 ,000 saved.

51:23If I can just keep$1 ,000 aside, that's my quick rainy day fund. but every other money needs to go to baby step two, which is paying off all the debt. And I told you before, it's list them smallest to largest with the two exceptions and then we're there. But part of baby step two says, hey, I need all of my income at its fullest power. So that means I am not dwindling my income on investing right now. I'm not putting too much into my withholding right now. I'm putting just enough because I don't want that tax refund. I want that money in my pocket every month. So those are quick ways to make sure we have all the money.

51:59And a lot of people don't like when we say pause investing, Ken, because they feel like they're missing out on time and they are missing out on time. But the thought process of that is if I have Ken, if I have a bucket of water, if I have a pitcher of water here and I have I don't know, you have one, two, three, four, four or five different glasses of debt. if I put a drop in each one, it's going to take me forever to fill up those glasses. But if I just take all the income in my pitcher and pour it on one, I'm going to fill up that glass very quickly and it's going to be gone. Okay. So that's why this works that way, Casey.

52:32And then we can go on to steps three and four and on down the list later. But right now, one and two is big. And something tells me he might have some savings somewhere that he needs to tap into.

52:41Ken Coleman:And I'd even, we're running out of time, but I would tell you that, uh, look at those cars. If there's enough equity in those cars, you could go to a clunker. Let's see if we can get that$1 ,000 as well. So that's what we're doing here. Thanks for listening.

53:05Switching banks can be a hassle, and I totally get that. But when Winston and I opened up our Fairwinds account, we were shocked by how quick and easy it was. It just took a few minutes online. We didn't have to block off an entire afternoon or track down paperwork. And the next day, we got a personal call from a Fairwinds specialist just checking in. I couldn't believe it when I answered my phone and I was talking to them. I was like, y 'all are the nicest people. Now, if you're working hard to save money, get out of debt and build a future, you should have a bank that supports that, not fights it.

53:36That's why I recommend Fairwinds. They created the Smart Checking and Savings Bundle specifically for Ramsey fans. Plus, they have a great app, and you have access to over 33 ,000 fee-free ATMs and more than 5 ,000 shared credit union branches across the country. So you can have access and withdraw your money just like you're used to, no matter where you live. Don't settle for a bank that slows down your progress. Make sure you choose one that helps build you up and helps you win with money. Visit fairwinds.org slash Ramsey and open your smart bundle today. fairwinds.org slash Ramsey.

54:14Ken Coleman:fairwinds.org slash Ramsey. Fairwinds is federally insured by the NCUA.

54:33Ken Coleman:All right, Casey is joining us now in Wyoming. Casey, how can we help? Hey, thanks for taking my call. I'm trying to get some input or advice on, I started building my, building a home on a property that I own. And I'm getting to the point where it's getting difficult to continue cash flowing. And I'm debating on just continuing down that path. of cash flowing it or if I should take out a construction loan for what I need to do to finish. How much more do you need to finish? Probably a hundred thousand dollars to finish out where I'm at. So a hundred grand is what you need to either cash flow, which is going to take you longer, or your idea of a construction loan gets it to you and you can finish this house by what time if i took the loan out i could probably finish it i would think next spring i mean we're heading into where i'm doing all this all the work myself okay physically so and so if you cash flow it how long will it estimate to take um so probably probably another two years and that's kind of where the okay and is this where the difficulty is i get it and i'm digging in a little bit here to get full perspective.

55:56Ken Coleman:So is this your dream home and you guys are already in a home that you can easily afford? What I'm trying to figure out here is, is there financial pressure to finish this house? Like what is the status of this house? So I bought the acreage, it's 40 acres and I bought the acreage four and a half years ago with the plan of just moving out there and building the house over a couple of year period. And then some things in life changed. And most of the money that I had saved up for the project went away. So the plan was to live out there on the 40 acres in some type of a temporary situation. And that's where I am now.

56:41Ken Coleman:I'm in an old, it's an old single wide trailer on the property. So I'm building, I'm building, right next door to where I'm at. But it's just me and my two kids and that little trailer. So, yeah, it's just getting to the point where I've been doing it for three years and a couple more years. So essentially, this would be like taking out a mortgage of$100 ,000 is what I'm hearing. Right, plus I do owe some on the land itself. I didn't buy the land outright. Right. What do you owe on the land? I owe$130 on the land. Okay, so if I'm in your shoes, I'm assuming you know the numbers, but what will be our combined, I'm going to call this a combined house payment.

57:28Ken Coleman:That's what I'm looking at here because the land and the home. What would be that combined mortgage payment? Well, it would be a 15-year rate on$250 ,000, give or take, right? And can you afford that at 25 % of your take-home pay? Yeah, I don't think the payment is that big a deal. Not I don't think. No, is it underneath our 25 % threshold? So 25 % of your take-home pay? Right at. Okay. Then I don't have an issue with this. I don't either. Because it's like buying a home. And I don't think living in this trailer with the two kids is sustainable for much longer. So, yeah, this is not what we would consider an irresponsible home purchase.

58:15Ken Coleman:That's essentially you're doing it a different way, but it's the same idea. Am I right, Jay? Yes, right on. Yeah, right on. I guess there's – well, because I am not a contractor, I can't qualify for – I would need to hire a general contractor and get somebody else involved in my business to – they won't loan. And it makes sense. they're not going to loan somebody that's just building a house. No, of course. I get it. I totally know what needs to happen. So you bring a general contractor. Sure. Of course. What's your problem with that? You don't want a general contractor? Is that the biggest problem?

58:50You want to do this all your own? Is that the biggest thing? I mean, that's a big thing. And also, I mean, there's, I guess there's a pride component of it where I had a plan to cash flow building.

59:00Ken Coleman:Hey, you can stick to that if you want to. I had a plan to dunk a basketball in a game when I was in high school. And it turns out I was 5 '9 and couldn't jump. so I had to deal with it and become a pass first point guard life throws you things no I'm just being honest here no no you're right I don't care that you want to finish it yourself well I do because here's the thing you do I do because there's there's that because the the financial side of it there's not a wrong answer right if you want to cash flow cash flow if you want to get the mortgage get the mortgage there's not a wrong one cash is better but for a time we would have said yeah go ahead and get the mortgage but then you turn around and said well here's the thing I want to build this thing.

59:36I don't want to hire a general contractor. So now we're talking about other things. We're talking about values. And so if you say to me, you have to then decide, what's it worth to me to have the timeline? Do I want to sacrifice timeline to have the values I want? Or do I want the values at the sake of the timeline? That's really what it sounds like this conversation is.

59:57Ken Coleman:Or do I want to hate my kids and hate my life all to keep my pride intact? I mean. That's the thing. Yeah. The kids don't really get a vote in it. I'm not talking about the kids. They'd say they'd rather have the new house right away. He's talking about, do you hate the kids? I'm talking about you, brother. You're the one that's on the phone and you're the one that talked about it. Everybody heard it on your voice. I'm with you 100%. The kids don't get a vote at all. I don't care what your kids think. I'm with you on that. But I think you're the one going, I don't think I can stay in this trailer with these kids.

1:00:22Ken Coleman:Yeah, how old are they? Am I right or am I wrong? The kids are six and eight. You didn't answer right. They're young. they're not going to know if it's two years down the road they're not really going to remember let me come at this a different way can you live with these kids in this trailer for two more years well you can do anything that's what I said you just have you have to decide only you can decide because Ken will say if it were Ken Coleman he would say I'm taking the loan well if it were me I'd never even be in a trailer around 40 acres. I don't like to sleep on anything less than 700 thread count.

1:01:04Ken Coleman:I'm not an outdoorsy sleep guy. All right. I'll be outdoors and then we take a shower and we stay in a nice room. But here's what I'm getting at. This is up to you. I just walked you into it and you went, well, I can do anything for two years. Well, then there's your answer. Yeah. I think you just want to cash flow. To Jade's point, your pride is building this thing yourself and it's really important to you. I'm not going to poo-poo that. I said, swallow it and get the house done. But that's when I thought you were angst about staying in this trailer. If you're going, I can stay in the trailer.

1:01:35Ken Coleman:I can do anything, Ken, for two years. Then I think that's your answer. So you build it yourself. I agree. And then you take two years and the kids are six and eight. They don't know. Get a pup tent in the backyard when the weather's nice in Wyoming. The kids can sleep outside. Do whatever you want. It's your 40 acres. I was trying to say. Yeah, I hear you. It's okay for you to take out a loan. but this is before you threw the it's important to me to build it myself yeah again something i can't even process i can barely put gas in my car do you have tools do you have any tools i do but it's limited to the socket wrenches the i got a cool little set of those l wrenches and wait no that's the stuff that comes i do have a uh i got one of those little battery powered uh drills that has a phillips head and then a normal but i hire other people it's called a flathead what is it flathead see no that's all i know i'm just making that up that's all i know so of course i'm gonna say hire a contractor yes because i got nightmares in my mind of you building this house and but you know look man you're you're a man you live in wyoming on 48 right okay this is something this is a different this is a different paradigm for me i go to wyoming in a postcard yes that's I go, oh, that's nice.

1:02:56I go to Wyoming when I watch, what was that Kevin Costner show? I don't know. What was the show that was big? A show? Remember? Oh, Yellowstone. Yeah. That's the only time I go. Yeah. Oh, yeah. No, I love that.

1:03:08Ken Coleman:But see, I'm in my living room with a nice blanket, hot cup of tea. Kevin Costner's roughing it. He's cold. And you're like, ooh, look at him. I'm like, ooh. It will never be me. I get a little shiver. I tell Stacey to turn the heat up. One of my favorite things about you is when you told me about your robe and how comfortable your robe was. My robe is next level. It goes all the way to the ankles. Restoration hardware, super plush. It's great, folks. It's like wearing a Snuggie, but you have freedom. Yeah, and dignity. I can move my arms and legs. And dignity. Yes. It's a great robe. I think every woman should buy my robe for their man in their life.

1:03:52Ken Coleman:It's a restoration hardware plush robe. Robes over tools. Robes over tools. Which one are you going to use more? It's pretty easy. I'm using my robe. 365.

1:04:36Ken Coleman:Hey, if you're tired of living paycheck to paycheck and feeling like you can't get ahead, you need to join one of our free every dollar trainings. We've got one every week this month, and they're all hosted by one of our Ramsey personalities. What are we doing? We're going going to show you how to stick to a budget and even find$9 ,000 of margin using every dollar so you can get out of debt and then begin the process of building wealth. You get to ask questions during live Q &A. You can sign up for free at RamseySolutions.com slash webinar. RamseySolutions.com slash webinar. Esther joins us now in South Carolina.

1:05:09Ken Coleman:Esther, how can we help? Hello. Thank you for taking my call. I'm just trying to figure out a game plan. I'm thinking about leaving my husband. I don't work. We have two kids. And being a single mom is potentially in the future for me. I'm just trying to figure out how I'm meant to navigate this. Okay. You're not working. You're thinking of leaving your husband. Tell us more about that part. Is there a danger? um i wouldn't say there's imminent danger we've had um a domestic violence issue before um it's when i was pregnant with my first um my first is going to be two um in a couple of weeks and i literally just had a newborn on saturday on saturday yeah oh my gosh okay and um i moved from the UK about three years ago.

1:06:08We've been married for about four years. And I've only worked like short stretches of time since being here. I'm in the medical field. I'm a medical professional, but just with having the babies and the exams, I haven't had like the time to just physically just do my exams to be a pharmacist over here. So I haven't been working.

1:06:31Ken Coleman:How much time and how much money would it take to get those exams done and essentially become qualified or current? There's one exam that happens every October over here, maybe about$3 ,000. I've literally only got about$700 in savings. But I just don't – my dad was abusive. It's something I work on for sure. but I don't know whether to call this abusive just because I'm sorry, just because I'm not getting beat down 24 seven. Of course. Hey. I need to figure out something. Okay. First off. Yeah, you're right. Domestic violence doesn't mean you're getting beat down 24 seven. It can be, it doesn't have to be to that extreme to be domestic violence.

1:07:24Okay. I want to know what's going on because when I asked you earlier, you said not imminent, but then you went on to say that, you know, when you were pregnant, there was an incident, which to me is pretty crazy. but I just want to validate to you that any behavior that is in, they're attempting to intimidate you. They're attempting, attempting to isolate you, frighten you, terrorize you, threaten you, um, hurt you like any of that, even if it's just a threat. Okay. That's not normal. And you shouldn't be in that, uh, environment, especially with babies, but even without you shouldn't, you, you, you don't tolerate that more than once.

1:08:09Ken Coleman:Do you have anywhere you can go before, like, let's forget about the legal separation or divorce piece. Let's just say if you're going to take some of these steps before we talk about the finance stuff, do you have friends, family in the area that you could flee to and be safe with? I mean, I've got the only family I've got are the in-laws. It can be a bit difficult because of the first incident. Well, yeah. I don't know whether it's a cultural thing. I got a lot of the blame for it. Yeah, you can't go there. No, I can just tell you right now, they're not part of it. So the answer is you don't have anybody.

1:08:45What about a church? Have you gone to church? Have you visited any churches in the area? I've got a church. Okay. Again, they were aware of the first situation. That's fine. They were a bit hit in this. So I haven't, after the first situation happened, I just kind of kept myself to myself and kind of, you know. Yeah, sure. I've been safe in the way I've reacted to things. I don't get myself into a predicament. Yeah, but I don't like that you're feeling like you're the one getting yourself into the predicament. It's not you, it's him. And I want you to, when you get off this call, A, I want you to call the hotline for domestic violence and domestic abuse.

1:09:25I think you need to call and talk to someone because I understand if you don't want to share with us what's exactly going on. But you need to share with someone that's going to be able to advise you. and I'd be looking into shelters in the area because what it sounds like is he sounds volatile to me and it sounds like you can't is that right yes okay he definitely is okay yeah I'm sorry and you you're not in any position to be able you never were but now with a newborn on Saturday you can't defend yourself from this person and they clearly don't care if you were pregnant if you have a newborn on your hip.

1:10:03So you have to go someplace else. And I hate that for you because you're supposed to be able to have a newborn and come home to a safe environment. And I'm so sorry that that's not the case. Okay. I'm so sorry. Here's the thing. You get, you call the number, you find a shelter, and then you get to a safe place. Then your brain can kind of open up a little bit because you're safe. We're going to make sure to put you in contact with a financial coach and we're going to make sure that they talk with you, help you figure out what's next.

1:10:39Ken Coleman:Do you have, yeah. And speaking of what's next, I do want to try to give you, and Jade's right, getting you safe and allowing your brain to slow down and function to its best is huge. But you did call and say, how do I financially prepare for this? And if I were in your shoes, I would be asking friends or family in the UK. That's where your base has been. And I personally would have zero pride issues with asking for$3 ,000. Because if$3 ,000 was what I needed to become a pharmacist in the United States where you can make really good money, have fabulous benefits for those littles, I would have no problem asking for$3 ,000.

1:11:26Ken Coleman:And I wouldn't say borrow. I didn't say borrow. I need to have it. I mean, we don't ask, we don't borrow. So I want to make sure, because I can hear the people going, oh, I didn't say borrow it. I'm saying in your situation, I would be very comfortable going to family and friends going, I am in a desperate situation and I do not want to borrow this money. If you could find, you know, it can. Do you have people in the UK? Real friends? I do. All of my family's there. Okay. Well, I believe we could scrape$3 ,000 together out of family who love you. And for the sole purpose, okay, in this situation, when it's right, to finish out this qualification, get a current on your stuff.

1:12:07Ken Coleman:And that's not too much to ask. And don't borrow it. You're going to ask people, I need you to help me. I have a very specific need. By the way, a really good church would step up in that situation as well. It would. And so, because this gives you freedom. them i'm just wondering if you don't i mean i think what ken said is a great place to start i'm just going to tag onto that list is it better for you to go back to the uk temporarily to be around supportive people can you take the kids to the uk or is there some type i i this is outside of my legal knowledge that's true that's true that doesn't want to i don't a good point so i'm a little nervous with that uh yeah that's a good point you know what i mean now now it makes complete common sense yeah i just don't know legally no you're right i think that's a dangerous situation i would not do that okay yeah bad plan given that she's not a u.s citizen so you don't want to complicate things but i think um safe first okay safe uh then we work on stability and whatever that looks like short term that means if you're working at a walmart you know and there's an old lady in the church who willing to watch the kids i mean because you've a challenge with child care which is very expensive so we got to get safe we got to get stable but i i'm trying to encourage you that you becoming a pharmacist as quickly as you can that's going to set you free and in getting hired is going to be a game changer you can mama you can take care of those babies on a pharmacist salary and you can you'll be fine just promise us you'll leave that environment, promise us you won't go to the in-laws because they're not for you.

1:13:50Ken Coleman:That's right. And he's there. Yeah. Right. And just call us anytime, Esther. Truly. Anytime. Don't lose contact with us because we want to follow you. Hang on the line. Kelly's amazing. She's going to get you plugged in where we can plug you in. So hang on.

1:14:21Thank you.

1:14:45Ken Coleman:All right, today's Ramsey Show question of the day brought to you by YReFi. If you have been turned down for refinancing your defaulted private student loans, you're not alone. And here's the good news, you're not out of luck. YReFi exists to give people with you, excuse me, like you, another shot. Go to YReFi.com slash Ramsey. That's the letter Y-R-E-F-Y dot com slash Ramsey. It may not be available in all states. Okay, today's question comes from Sydney in Colorado.

1:15:23She says,

1:15:43I think that, Sydney, what you're feeling is completely normal because the truth is, yeah, when you're on a credit card, it is a safety blanket, right? It is. It's a crutch. And what happens when you have a crutch, Ken, you know this, if you if you wear lean on it, you lean on it. If you wear a cast for too long, if you sit in a chair for too long, the muscles, they atrophy. You know what I'm saying? And before you know it, doing things that should be normal range of motion, normal things become more difficult because you have atrophied that muscle. So it's the same thing with your money. It is a skill and a learned skill to be able to manage your money, the actual money that comes home in your check.

1:16:25And when you lean on credit cards, you can be willy nilly, right? You don't have to be as on it. You know that if you break the budget, it's okay because I've got this extra, you know, the limit is here and I can go beyond and there's no real guardrails there. So I think what's happening is for the first time, you're like, oh, I have boundaries. I have limits and I must depend on my financial, you know, fortitude and my own kind of willpower to stay within those boundaries. And yeah, that's a skill to learn over time. And I think that you're on the right track. And it could take a while. You know, we do say that when people build a budget can, you know, what is it, 90 days before they feel like I got it.

1:17:08I can stick to this. I can start to live like this. And, you know, for you, I don't know how far out of bounds you guys were going. But, yeah, it's a lifestyle change.

1:17:18Ken Coleman:That's right. And I would just give yourself grace because everybody's different as to their discipline. I know some people that they get this Ramsey plan. They're like, oh. Got it. Yeah. And they're just such system disciplined people that it's just like, okay, I'm in lockstep. And then there's other people that it takes a while. And here's what I would tell you that once you finally get over using credit cards, what I found to be true for us years and years ago, we finally cut ours up and that whole deal. And it's kind of like when you give up something food wise. Oh, yeah. And what happens is your appetite changes.

1:18:00Ken Coleman:And I think credit cards are much like food or beverages. And I'm going to give you a specific example in my life. Years and years ago, I was a sweet tea animal. I mean, I drank a lot of sweet tea. I thought it was a rite of passage because I was born and raised in the South. You know, it was kind of like water and sweet tea. And I kept looking for sweet tea in the Bible. I couldn't find it anywhere. Oh, man, no, it ain't there. That's how much I love sweet tea. and um and i cut it out as a part of a massive physical goal and and this is this is this is the only thing i can describe in my life that means is where your appetite changes and so i was very disciplined for at least a year jade to not have sweet tea and and then a year turned into two years and i just i just had all these other options and i remember one day i was at some thing in the summer and somebody had a gallon of chick-fil-a iced tea sitting on that picnic table and it was just going and and you know what i did yeah what i poured a little bit over some ice and i took a drink and i'm promise you this is the truth it was disgusting i believe you and here's what i learned i talked to a nutrition of nutritious about it like weeks later and i told that story and she said yeah your appetite changed yeah it's real and so i think there's long i know that was a long-winded metaphor but i can't help it i'm a preacher boy okay i i think that once you get off of credit cards and you really truly follow the ramsay plan excuse me and you really choked up emotionally are you crying yeah listen i was ready to step in for you i'm verklimpt no i uh i just believed like the sweet tea that the idea of a credit card when it pops back up on the picnic table that you'll go nah i don't want what comes with that yeah and for me it was just it was too sugary yeah and uh and but what had changed was my appetite it wasn't discipline in the moment well it was my appetite change so i i i hope that helps and i think that's for a lot of people to go, okay, man, I don't know if I can really get myself away from these credit cards with it, but I'm telling you, when you change your lifestyle and you change your habits, your appetite changes with it.

1:20:29Ken Coleman:And that's game changer stuff. So I hope that helps. If I had an organ, I'd have played the organ behind you, but I didn't have it. Don't get me started. I'll take an offering. I mean, we'll do an altar call. I mean, let's go, man. I'll give you three points and an offering here quick. No, I hope that encourages people. and it's the same way with debt. All right, let's get to Kyle, who's joining us now in Charleston, South Carolina. Kyle, how can we help today? Hey, Jayden, Ken, how are you? Thanks for taking my call. Sure. So I just finished Baby Step 3. Congrats. Thank you. I've been using the last couple of years getting out of about$80 ,000 worth of debt, and I just finished my emergency fund.

1:21:08Way to go. At this point, thank you. At this point, I have no savings outside of my emergency fund, and I'm looking to start budgeting for the first time. So you did all that without a budget? How did that happen? It was everything that was not living expenses was going on to the debt. So basically insane discipline. Yeah, you just went hard in the paint. Good for you. Good for you. Okay, so we're making a budget. Right, and I appreciate the structure of the baby steps. I think that helped me out a lot while going through the process. and I wanted to see if you guys have any similar rules or best practices that I'm able to stick to as a first-time budget or making a budget for the first time.

1:21:55Ken Coleman:Great question. I love this. All right, Jade. So here we go. The guy's got his fully funded emergency fund. Yeah. So first off, yeah, I would recommend the same budget that I use, the same budget Ken uses. It's called EveryDollar. We both really like it. Everybody around here seems to love it. It's great. And so once you have that budget at the top of it, you're just going to put in your income, right? Which, what is your income every month? It's about a hundred. Okay. Oh, I'm sorry. Annually. Annually. Okay. So you're going to plug in your money. You know, I don't know what it is after taxes.

1:22:28I, whatever that is. So$8 ,000 right there at the top, then you're going to plug in all of your expenses. Now, when you're doing the budget, you're going to keep in mind what your next goal is, right? And for you, the goal is I need to be investing 15 % of my income. So let's say, let's just pretend you start the budget just to see the money you have. Let's pretend you start the money, the budget without accounting for that, just to see, okay, here's the margin I actually have with the life that I actually live. Then you're gonna say, well, wait a minute, I do need to budget for this 15%. What will it look like when I pull this money away?

1:23:04because that's gonna go into retirement. And now am I able to budget less that 15 %? And so that's kind of the exercise that you need because that is the drum that you're gonna be beating from now until the time that you retire. You're gonna be investing 15 % of your income. Then from there, it's like, okay, what are the other things that I wanna do with my margin? Do I wanna put savings anywhere else? Am I thinking of buying a house? Am I thinking of saving up a down payment? And by the way, is that part of your goals? Yes, it is. Okay. So those are the two things that are going to be driving the driving forces behind your budget right now.

1:23:45Does that make sense? Yes, ma 'am. All righty. All right. Kelly's going to pick up. Kelly, you know what to do.

1:23:51Ken Coleman:Oh, the assist to Kelly. You got to love it. Yeah. You know, this is exciting. I just want to say, yay, yay, yay, Kyle. I mean, the fact that you went so hard and fast to get to Baby Step 3, and you're like, I don't even know how to budget. I mean, that, again, I applaud that, and I love that you're now leaning in. You're on your way to wealth, young man, and that is exciting.

1:24:29Ken Coleman:Many of you listen to The Ramsey Show because you're sick and tired of getting nowhere with your money. You work too hard to live paycheck to paycheck with no money in the bank. But here's the deal. Just listening to the show won't change that. If you want different results, you have to do something different. We've helped millions of people save money, ditch debt, and build wealth, and you can too. But you got to have a game plan, and that begins with our Get Started Assessment. Go to RamseySolutions.com slash start now, take the free quiz, and get your free step-by-step action plan. If you've had it with money stress and are ready to take control of your money for good, go to RamseySolutions.com slash start now.

1:25:22Ken Coleman:Welcome back to the Ramsey Show alongside Jade Warshaw and Kent Coleman. Let's get right to Josh here in Fort Worth, Texas. Josh, how can we help? Hey, guys. Thanks for taking my call this afternoon. I have a question about buying my son a vehicle. A little bit of background. His mom and I have been split up for about eight years now. He's 17 and recently got his license, and I've been trying to talk with her about getting him a car for about the last year now. And she doesn't want to participate financially. because his grandparents on her side are willing to let him use a car that they have.

1:26:12It's still titled in their name. It's insured on their policy, and they added him to their insurance. And I don't think it's the right kind of car. It's kind of a sporty sedan that an inexperienced 17-year-old probably shouldn't be driving. What is it? Tell us more, for real. It's an Acura. It's an Acura TL. I think it's about 15 years old, but it's 300 horsepower, and he got his license like two weeks ago.

1:26:40Ken Coleman:You think that he's going to drag race in this? What is the concern? No, but he's a pretty impulsive kid. I wasn't quite ready for him to get his license. I'm looking online at an Acura TL that's 15 years old. That is not an impulsive car. I am not seeing any, unless I'm missing something. All right. Josh. It's got a little get up and go. It's a 15-year-old Acura. Nobody thinks of that car as irresponsible for a kid. In fact, an Acura is a fabulous car, a 15-year-old Acura. What do you want to buy him? Let's run this whole risky thing. I'm dying to know. What do you want to buy him? I'm looking more like Honda Civic.

1:27:27you realize honda honda makes acuras but that's the one folks trick out in race is the honda

1:27:34Ken Coleman:civi that's like what they do it's like pure stock like it doesn't matter let's wonder i wait a sec okay here's the deal you okay i'll get out of your way jay because i think you're revving up i like when you get revved up i if i'm in your situation i wouldn't spend my money on buying this kid a car the grandparents on the other side are doing you a solid man yes take a don't look a gift horse in the mouth is the old phrase or at least try it out first at the very least let him try with the acura and if he if he races it then get him a civic to race but that's his problem but the fact that you don't want your 17 year old you don't think he's ready for a license is also an issue.

1:28:19Ken Coleman:That's, you know, I mean, is any 16 year old ready? I mean, I know when two of my three, I'm getting ready to have a third one driving. Y 'all pray for me. I'd like to keep my hair. Uh, but I remember when the first two started driving Jade, I was absolutely mortified and terrified. I'm letting them drive a vehicle. It didn't matter if it was an Acura or a Yugo. If you've people from the eighties, remember that car is basically a lawnmower, you know it doesn't matter you know it's it the very concept of driving a car is dangerous so his impulses and all that that's a bigger issue you getting him a civic versus him giving him an acura is and i'm just telling you as objectively as i can you called us you're worried about the wrong things and i would take the gift i would too i listen i second that i 100 i thought you were going to say they're giving him a brand new 2025 Lamborghini like I was expecting something like that even then I take that I just ride with the kid but hey that's me you know yeah I I think that you have a gift here and don't block the blessing well said Josh we've spoken that's the gavel right there you're gonna do what you're gonna do I got a feeling do you remember when I was in high school the car to have like if you had this car it was like oh i'm very excited i'm a little older than you so i'm anxious to see what this is well and i also grew up in like a like a country town if you had a trans am oh like that was the business it was speed speed on wheels oh man and but and it was funny about a trans am it's honestly a piece of crap yeah but it looked fast it looked so cool it had the like the bird on the on the oh gosh oh the bird that had the bird on the hood?

1:30:09Ken Coleman:I know. That's from what's the Smokey and the Bandit? Yeah, Burt Reynolds. Come on, man. Now I'm dating myself. Yeah, that's okay. There's like a whole demographic that's like, did he just say Smokey and the Who? Listen, I'm going to act like I don't know what you're talking about. You do know. Because you're the real deal. Dan is joining us now in Alabama. Dan, how can we help? Hey, Ken and Jade. I'm a new listener. Welcome aboard, sir. Well, Thank you. My wife and I of almost 40 years are searching for peace. We're sick and tired of being sick and tired. Good. We sold our family small business of 20 years back in 2021.

1:30:58The buyer made it 18 months and bankrupted it. Oh, no. Wow. And that really has thrown our retirement into a spiral.

1:31:13Ken Coleman:What were the terms of the deal? Well, it was an owner finance deal for three years. And, you know, the deal was that he would operate two years and be able to get SBA financing. No, I get that. But over the three-year period, when the three years was done, what were you expecting to be paid?

1:31:39About a half a million.

1:31:40Ken Coleman:So you were counting on a half a million, and I'm guessing you're getting zero. Well, we didn't get much. Okay. You have any other retirement accounts? Well, we've been trying to keep the facility operating because we had tenants renting out part of the facility. I had to keep that up and going. So we have kind of blown through what retirement we had saved up. What kind of facility is it? What, like, do you still have any of this? It is a food manufacturing facility. Okay. It's a large facility. Do you, who owns that? Who has ownership? I'm assuming the new, the new owner. You still kept ownership.

1:32:31Yeah, I leased, I leased him. He bought assets of the. All right.

1:32:36Ken Coleman:Understood. So, so you have zero. Yeah. Well, tell me, give me real numbers. How much did you get from the sale of the company? You said you got a little, not much. We need real numbers here. What do you have? Yeah, we got less than$100 ,000. $90 ,000,$80 ,000,$75 ,000? $90 ,000. Okay,$90 ,000. Okay, so$90 ,000, and then you have zero retirement money. Right. Other than we just received an inheritance IRA from... How much is that? How much? It's now$100 ,000. Okay. How old are you guys? I'm 64. Okay. Okay. And how much is the building worth? if you were to sell it today? Have it now listing for 1.375.

1:33:24Ken Coleman:Okay. Go ahead. Well, here's what we're doing. Let's hold this because there's more work to do here. So hang on the line. Keep those numbers handy, Dan. We need those numbers. And we're going to pick up where we left off, all right? Okay.

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1:35:13Ken Coleman:Hey, don't just set goals in 2026. How about learning how to reach them? The 2026 Ramsey Goal Planner is here, and it's packed with monthly content from Jade, Rachel, and John Deloney to help you stay on track with your money, faith, and relationships so that you can follow through on your goals. And these sell out every year, so don't wait. You can get yours for$49.97 at RamseySolutions.com slash store or click the link in the show notes. If you're watching on YouTube right now, I've got it in my hands here. Yeah. This is no joke. It's nice. I mean, if you judge a book by its weight, this is valuable.

1:35:51Ken Coleman:Substantial. I could knock a man out with this with very little effort. It's just that substantial. A lot of tabs. And I think that's probably a good feature for a planner as well, don't you think? And it's a little bit smaller than last year, so it's easier to just handle. Smaller than last year? What was last year? The scrolls? It was scroll status. Wow, this is substantial. I really am fascinated by it. and you know what else I like? This little, what do you call this? The binder. It's continuous so it can't come off like last year. Last year we had a little bit of problems with it. This year it's completely solved.

1:36:22It's great. I feel like you might've engineered this,

1:36:24Ken Coleman:not only contributed to it. You're speaking with great knowledge about all this. I just, well, I'm part of the product and I care about it. I love it. It's great. I love it. There you go. All right. So we're going to come back to Dan and Dan kind of set this up here. Dan sold his family business and the person who bought it was owner finance. That means they were paying Dan over three years and did not go well. So we're running through the numbers. So, Dan, we're coming back to you. Let's recast on the numbers to make sure that Jade and I are completely caught up. You walked away with$90 ,000 cash from the sale of this company.

1:37:04Ken Coleman:Is that correct? Correct. Okay. and you were expecting to walk away with$500 ,000. Is that also correct? That is correct. All right. And you've depleted your retirement funds down to basically nothing to kind of keep this building that you still own afloat. Is that correct? That is correct. All right, great. And so what did you tell me if we were to sell this building today and you have listed it, what do you expect to actually walk away with?

1:37:38the equity i would hope to walk away with uh around 400 000 okay and just to clarify there's no business running out of it it's just a building you said you had a couple of renters in there is that what i heard well i restarted a different version of the business that i sold because i had to keep the building going. Yeah. And how was that doing? Well, my son came on board. He stopped his career venture into insurance to join with me and try to restart the business that we were doing. And how's it going? Well, it's still not paying for the building and it's just bleeding me. So will you shut that business down?

1:38:28The building is too big for what we are able to do.

1:38:32Ken Coleman:If you sell that building, would you keep that business going? No, because now my son has decided he wants to go back to insurance. Good move. I was going to suggest that. So, you know, with the risk of having to build a whole new smaller facility in order to operate profitably, he doesn't want to take that risk. Sure. I understand. So if I'm reading the situation, if I've got the facts, Dan, correct me here, you were hoping to walk away with$500 ,000 over a three-year period. But if we sell this building, we're going to end up being at$490 ,000 now. So instead of$500 ,000 later, you're going to be$490 ,000 now, correct?

1:39:13Well, the$90 ,000 is gone. But it was still money you received. Oh, so you've already spent.

1:39:19Ken Coleman:Okay, I was under the impression you retained the$90 ,000. You're saying it's already been spent. Yes. Okay, but same scenario. So instead of$500K after selling this business, once we get rid of the building, you're going to have$400K? Hopefully, yes. Okay. So the only difference is we blew through retirement. How much retirement did you spend? Probably$250K. Okay. So that's the number. So when I look at, okay, where we thought we were going to be was$500K in cash and$250K continuing to grow in retirement. Now we're going to be at$400K. and zero in retirement. That's the difference. So we've got a$250 ,000 deficit.

1:40:00Yeah.

1:40:01Ken Coleman:Okay. So we got to address that. You know, my head has just been so wrapped up in all the arms and legs of this thing. I can't seem to critical think my way through these. And, you know, I've tried to, we never have been much of a budgeter. So I've thrown all this mess together on a spreadsheet. I think you've had this for so long and it went away that you didn't want it to go. And so you're kind of trying to grasp at straws to keep it. But I think the longer you keep it, the more loss you're going to feel. And I get it. You've sunk a lot of time and money and cost into this. And that's deceiving, right?

1:40:45You keep thinking, oh, there might be a way that I can re-get it and get it back and get it back. But instead, you're just losing at a very fast rate.

1:40:52Ken Coleman:Here's a quick question. I don't, where's your income? I understand the 400 because that was going to be a part of your retirement or were you planning to live off of the 500? In other words, all I want to know right now is how are you bringing in income? Well, it's through the business that we're operating now. But you're about ready to shut that down. Yes. And so, so now that's our biggest issue. So how much money, what do you need to make what kind of income do you need to replace the hope is that i am willing to sell off what is left of the businesses that we are operating yeah because they're there are if there is potential there i mean there there are kind of potential what do you think it would be in dollars

1:41:39hopefully at least another three or four hundred thousand but that i think i can resell it again if I can split it up into two segments. Well, now we're closing that gap with these new businesses.

1:41:52Ken Coleman:And we can invest that in retirement and replace the$250 with these numbers. But again, where's our income? If you sell those businesses, you still need some income. Yeah, what will you do? And that's the next thing is this is all we've ever done. So, you know, manufacturing food is what we know. And in order to duplicate that on a smaller scale, we still have to have expensive facilities. Then we're going through the mind process of like your book is what what are we really wired to do? Well, I get that. But I wonder if I wonder if you could go work for somebody instead of running the business.

1:42:37Ken Coleman:You're 65 and you're trying to play catch up. But if we sell all these businesses and stack this cash, if I'm in your shoes, I'm looking to go do similar work, but I'm going to go do it for somebody else in this twilight and allow myself to keep stacking onto retirement. For right now, I'm not thinking that I have to start another manufacturing business. I actually think at this stage with you checking out of all these things and exiting, I would go do similar work, you know, contract work, go work for somebody else that does it. Is it ideal for you? No. But is it a lot safer? And is it a lot calmer?

1:43:13Ken Coleman:And does it help you continue to catch up? Yes. That's what I would do. You also did say, though, and I just want to play this out. You said before, hey, we would be making money on the manufacturing business we have now, but our facility is too large, so we're bleeding because of it. And you said we needed a smaller facility. So my question is, if you sold off the smaller businesses that you've created as a result of having all this extra space, would that create the money you need to have the smaller facility so that the existing business can actually be profitable? And then over time, maybe you just have somebody else come in and run it.

1:43:48And that's kind of your plan to transition out. Have you thought through that? Well, we have considered that, but without a son to take longevity, I just don't - You don't have it in you. I can hear it. I understand. I can hear it.

1:44:05Ken Coleman:You don't have it. I've already retired once. I can hear it. That idea, while a good idea, I think for you it's exhausting. You know, I'm in good physical shape. So, yes, going to work somewhere for a little while and stack up some more cash. It's just so much to think through. Well, I just simplified it. I just simplified it for you, and you've got to be okay with it. You've got to be okay going, you know what? The deal went bad. it's not my fault that the bonehead ran it in the ground. Maybe I could have done something, but we don't play that game. You're not going to just play armchair quarterback on yourself.

1:44:41Ken Coleman:Let's move forward, sell everything, let's stack the cash, and let's retire with dignity.

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1:45:33Learn more at RamseySolutions.com slash SmartVestor.

1:45:53Ken Coleman:Hey, how are you doing with the baby steps? Are you on track? You can take a quick quiz, check your progress, and receive a personalized plan just for you. All you do is go to our show notes, click on the link titled, Are You on Track with the Baby Steps? And you can complete the quiz. That's a great resource. Let's go to Norman, Oklahoma. Tristan is there. Tristan, how can we help? Hey, guys. How are you doing? Good. How are you? Pretty good. I have encountered a situation. I was not ready for it. I've been listening to you guys for about a year now. And about a month ago, at the end of July, I got into a wreck.

1:46:34I goofed. I was trying to work the baby steps out of order, so not the smartest part of my end. But I was trying to get rid of my debt before saving up the nest egg, so I don't have$1 ,000 to help me out with getting a new car. I was in a car accident, and it was his fault. He ran into me and told her my car, but I just had liability. Now I don't have transportation, and I am trying to find a vehicle off of Facebook Marketplace, and I can't seem to find one within my price range. Right now I have about$700 saved up, and that's about all the money I have. Okay, hold on.

1:47:12Ken Coleman:Slow down just one second here. So because it was the other guy's fault, have you talked to your insurance people and his insurance people? You should get some money. You should get some money on that for the car. From his insurance. From his insurance for your car. Yeah, so the thing is, like I said, I was working on Baby Step 2, and so I was$6 ,000 before. I was trying to get paid off at the end of the year, but I was$6 ,000 under. And it was a 2016 Hyundai Sonata, and so the value is just right around there. I'm so confused, brother. So you're saying you were upside down on the car? Is that what you're saying, the 6K?

1:47:53Is that what you were saying? Upside down on the car. Okay, so that's neither here nor there. What's the car worth?

1:48:00Ken Coleman:What is the total? When the car was total, what is the number? So my attorney's been working on that. She has gotten to me, and the number that we're looking at is$5 ,500. So you should be getting a check for$5 ,500 from his insurance agency. But I was told that that was going to go straight to the bank since it's under a loan. That is correct. I apologize. I was so focused on your next car. Okay. So that's gone, and you have$700. Correct. Well, that's a— Don't be looking for a$700 car. You might as well get a bicycle because that's going to be more dependable. I'm not even kidding. How old are you?

1:48:43I'm 26. Okay. What do you do for work? I am a teacher. A teacher.

1:48:48Ken Coleman:Okay. How far away do you live from the school? I live about 11 miles. Okay. So you're still able to work, like you're not injured from this, are you? Correct. No, God was surrounding me. I'm going through PT right now. I am filing an accident injury lawsuit. So we're on the steps of that, but I don't know what to do in the meantime before I get that money. I think you're going to be on. So the first step is we need to figure out where's there any margin in your budget, because that's what's going to be what you're putting towards saving up for a beater vehicle. And in the meantime, you're doing a couple of things called the bus you're doing.

1:49:27You're taking the cheapest level of lift. You're hitching a ride with bicycling

1:49:33Ken Coleman:have you done in your life? I bicycled the other day to my workout. Did you really? Okay. The reason I'm asking is what do you think 11 miles how long would it take you to ride 11 miles I can ride I can ride a mile in like I don't know like five minutes because I when I ride to my workout it's about a mile and a half away yeah 55 yeah I mean if it's faster than that but I you know I always underestimate these things if it's a safe ride I was pretty good on the peloton if it's a safe ride try it um but you gotta do something like that I mean that's the real that's the real real Tristan Like you're going to have to save.

1:50:09Ken Coleman:What do you think in your budget you could carve out every month to go towards a car? Because you need like$3 ,000. Yeah, I'm thinking I'm just trying to, I'm still, I'm still working on trying to get the EveryDollar app. I'm trying to get those behaviors in so I'm not too good at it yet. No, no, no, no. Okay. You can do this today. So I don't want you to over make this too difficult. So today you go in there and when you get paid from being a teacher, do you get paid twice a month? Yes. Okay. So what are those checks? They are$1 ,300. Okay. So you put both of those$1 ,100 checks in there and then you're going to say, okay, I've got$2 ,200.

1:50:50Do you teach full time? Yes. Okay. I've got$2 ,200 to spend. And then from there, it's going to give you a place to put all the things you spend money on. So you're going to put your rent out of there. you're going to put everything out of there. So when you were paying off debt, because you said, hey, I went too fast, I paid off my debt too fast, and I didn't do the savings. When you were paying off your debt, how much extra were you putting towards paying off your debt? Anything I could. I didn't have a specific number I was putting. I was paying my rent. Give me a good month. On a good month.

1:51:23On a good month,$600. Okay. So now that essentially what I'm telling you is that$600, instead of going towards paying off your debt, you're going to stack that for the next two, three months, two months until you have, okay,$1 ,200 plus the$700 you had before you're going to have about$2 ,000, right? So it's like, okay, great. Now I'm getting closer to being able to buy this car. If you can put another thousand with it, that's how this is going to work. Now, the hard part is usually we would tell people if they're saving for a car, you need to be side hustling, you need to be doing this and that.

1:51:55But for you, it's a slim margin because you don't have transportation. So this is going to be a grind out for you for three months.

1:52:04Ken Coleman:How much money are you generating? Because I'm over here, Jay, just so you know, I'm not checking my stocks. I'm looking up used cars. Are you actually near Norman, Oklahoma? Yes. Okay. I'm in South Norman. South Norman? How much money have you generated for him with this coaching? In two months, he's going to have$2 ,000. In three months, if he grinds it out, he's going to have$3 ,000. Okay. All right. So I'm just doing a check here. You're going to need, I think, to be safe, another$1 ,000. I'm looking at some cars that, again, will get you from point A to point B. I don't know. Go lower. I think you can go lower.

1:52:42Ken Coleman:I'm just doing a quick, you know. Okay. I'm just saying, direct to Facebook Marketplace, you probably can. Yeah, because he's only going 10 miles a day. And then you can slowly build up after that. Yeah, but I like the$3 ,000 to$4 ,000. I just was playing off of your number. I think$3 ,000 to$4 ,000 is the number. And I would say Facebook Marketplace is a good play. But some of these dealers get really... Seedy. Well, they're very happy to unload a... Like, here's a 2007 Pontiac Vibe base. I never even heard of this car. No, don't get that. I'm not saying you get it, but I'm saying you go to this dealer, and they're asking$39.99 for that.

1:53:21Ken Coleman:You go in there with$2 ,000 in$100 bills and lay it on the hood of that vibe, and you're driving that thing away. Yeah, you shake his greasy hand and you're out the door. You don't even have to shake his hand. Just, hey, here it is. Spread it out. And that guy's going to go,$2 ,000 cash for a Pontiac vibe? Don't spread it out. You're going to get the man jumped. Just write a check like a normal non-gangster. No, you're missing my drama. You thought that was gangster? I think that's a, I think it's a flex. It's like, you're like unbuttoned shirt, throw your chest hairs out, put a gold chain on and just slap it on the table.

1:53:57Ken Coleman:If that works for$2 ,000, my point is cash for these older cars, cash really goes a long way. It does, it does. And that's all I'm saying. Just something practical there. But that's what your play is right now. And then hopefully you get a nice check from this, uh, this case or whatever. Yeah, I hope so. Yeah, man. This is called grind time. That is. You know, there's an old phrase. You're a teacher, Tristan. You probably heard this. Where there's a will, there's a... Way. There you go. And this is the time. And it's very easy, by the way, because there's going to be a chorus of people singing, go get a car payment.

1:54:36Ken Coleman:Don't do it. And there's the choir. The choir's going to be singing it. Don't do it. There it is. Don't do it. Nice. Nice. I'm always ready for you, Jay. You got to step out of the choir like Jade does. Like she has a different color robe than everybody else, you know? She's got the mic and she gets out center stage. That's what you got to do here. The soloist. You got to be a soloist on this because the choir is going to get you in trouble with a car payment, you know? Don't do it. And I tell you what, folks, if you want to enjoy yourself sometime and you're really bored, nothing good on TV, pull up the old used car websites and look for cars listed under$5 ,000.

1:55:13Ken Coleman:We'll give you a chuckle. Thank you.

1:55:40Thank you.

1:56:10Ken Coleman:210 to Janis Joplin. It's always just a natural bridge. Indeed. You are what you settle for. Jesus to Joplin with it all day. Thank you, Jade. Well said. By the way, I want to be known for quotes like that. You are what you settle for? Yeah, six words. Like Janis just dropped the mic. She did drop it. She just said it, lit up a cig, and walked away. No big deal. Nikki is in Missouri. Nikki, how can we help? um there is a i'm a senior citizen widowed and there is another senior citizen much older than me a widower who is interested in a relationship with me and with the goal of getting married because he wants to get married all right all right all right nikki you're putting out the vibe I know.

1:57:00Well, there's more behind it, though.

1:57:03Ken Coleman:Oh. The rest of the story. Yes. He does not know my financial situation, but I know his completely. Okay. I like how you roll, Nikki. I like it. So you've got money and he doesn't. Exactly. So he doesn't know you could be a sugar mama. He just got out of a sugar mama relationship. In fact, I'm the one that pointed it out and said, look, let me lay this out for you and she's going to take all your money. He had every bit of his money in a joint account with her name on it. And did she take it? Did she take it? No. But he doesn't have a whole lot anyway. No,$125 ,000. Oh, that's it? Okay. So what is your, keep going.

1:57:48Ken Coleman:So what's your concern or what's your question for us? All right. My concern is he told me that that$125 ,000 is burning a hole in his pocket. And it's like, you know, his pension alone is about$100 ,000 a year. Okay. And so, you know, he makes good money, but where is it? Is he that bad with money? Well, apparently he was spending it on this last lady. Now he wants to spend it on you. Yeah. I mean, what's his... So is this leading to should... I mean, I feel like you're leading to another question here. I don't want to ask it for you. I want you to ask it. What's your question? I'm ready. I'm worried that he's going to end up needing a very expensive nursing home care or something and he's going to blow through his money instantly, and then I'd have to dip into mine if we're married.

1:58:36How old is he? He's 81.

1:58:38Ken Coleman:And how old are you? 68. Oh, yeah. See, I don't know. Interesting. I don't know. Well, first of all, we jumped ahead to all this. The way this call started is I just met this guy. He just got out of this other relationship. Seems pretty fast. This all seems fast. I mean, do you even like this guy? Well, we've been Facebook friends for over three years. Well, that doesn't mean anything. I'm not going to marry my Facebook. First of all, I'm married. But if I was in your situation, I wouldn't consider marrying a Facebook friend. There's got to be more criteria. Oh, we've liked each other's pictures for three years.

1:59:11Ken Coleman:We thought maybe we would tie the knot. What else is there? Nikki, no. This guy needs to court you. Can I act like— No, I'm not saying that he's not going to. But has he started yet is the question, or are we jumping ahead? We're talking about something we shouldn't talk about is what I'm getting at, Nikki. This guy's got to earn your love. He's got to earn the right to marry you, at which point you discuss all these things in this process. And if you guys aren't aligned, if you're not aligned with your money at this late stage of life, you shouldn't do it. Because, I mean, God bless him, 81. That's my question.

1:59:53Is it, or because he has such a good income, do I not worry about it so much? Am I overthinking this? I think, well, we're trying to get a bead on what the relationship actually is. It ain't. Are you dating? It's Facebook. No, it isn't yet. I have been putting him off. He asked me out two years ago, and I said, oh, I'm in the middle of the house repair. Okay. You were washing your hair.

2:00:15Ken Coleman:She went to that one. That's great. but wait a minute wait a minute Nikki let me ask a question I don't think you really like this guy I feel like it's a line in the water and you're like well I'm not doing anything else I think you're 68 and you're a widow and this guy's interested in you and that's kind of nice but you don't you haven't said anything that makes me think there's something there no you said he would like to get married there isn't yet well he asked me already to marry you basically would you consider getting married and it's like, I don't know. I haven't even met you yet. Do you live in the same space to actually meet each other in person?

2:00:55We're going to in a week and a half. He's coming here. He's six hours away. So you really legitimately have never met him. Hold up.

2:01:01Ken Coleman:How do we know this isn't catfishing? Do you even know what that means? Yeah, but I really don't think it is. He is too open and honest. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. Nikki, you have a hook in both sides of your mouth right now and this needs to stop. You do not have any more communication with this guy until this 81-year-old wrinkled dude shows up in his Bermuda shorts and is the real deal. I'm not kidding you. Yeah, neither am I. I wish Dave were here today and I don't want to get mean like Dave, but I'm telling you everything you're saying sounds like you are being completely punked and you are falling for it.

2:01:42Ken Coleman:Your first reply to me was, oh, no, no, but he's so open and honest. And that's how they get you. And why would you even be talking about finances to this level with somebody that you've never even seen in person? Oh, that was because of the scammer he was with last and he just about went totally without them. Right, but even that part. You've not met this guy. You don't even know if he's real. Yeah, this all sounds like a scam. Tell him to come meet you. Let me go. He is. He's going to. Okay. Well, let's wait until. He was wanting to do that for two months. Well, let's wait and see if he shows up.

2:02:15Yeah, let's see if he shows up.

2:02:16Ken Coleman:My money's on this guy never shows up because he gets a mysterious case of overnight gout. Yeah. Do you know anybody else that knows him? Okay. We get on Facebook Widowed video chats. And so, you know, you kind of get to know the people in the group. And he was in that group for a long time. Yeah, he was because that's where I would fish if I was a scammer. But you've seen his face. Go where the fish are biting. as a Zoom call is what you're saying. I don't buy it. What's his name? Yeah. Charlie. Yeah, it's not real. It actually is. Here's the thing. But Nikki, you need to wait to see him. Now I'm getting angry.

2:02:54If you see him in person, you've had Zoom calls with him, seen his face. If you see him, now if he's doing the Wilson from Home Improvement where you never see the, it's always like this, and you never see the whole face?

2:03:09Ken Coleman:Nikki, if your daughter called us, if you had a daughter, I don't know if you have a daughter or not, it doesn't matter, but if you had a daughter or if you do have a daughter and she called us and you were listening to this call, what in the world would you say to her? Oh, I know it, but she's much younger than me. It doesn't matter. You're not a desperate, lost case. You've got to be careful. The other thing is, I honestly think he wants, I told him where I lived last year. gee that's smart that's smart i know i know it nikki no i do trust the guy and i no no no no no i'm done i don't think i'm not gonna be as mean as day but i'm gonna tell you something nikki i'm gonna tell you the truth because i feel like i have to tell you the truth and then jade can clean it up i'll give you my 30 seconds and then hit it nikki this is absolute foolishness whether it's a scam or not this is foolishness and i'm being very very serious and i'm gonna tell you why i don't care i'm not listening about it no i don't know i don't want to hear it let me tell you why you need to protect your heart no you need to protect your heart whether it's a scam or not you are talking about finances and combining your life with a guy that you've never been on a date with that is significantly older than you that based on what he's told you so far the he's reckless with money and all these other things there's nothing stable about this entire phone call.

2:04:29Ken Coleman:Nothing stable. The only thing that's stable is your financial situation, but you are putting your financial and your emotional situation in massive risk. And I'm telling you the absolute truth. You need to run from this. If this guy's real, if he wants to pursue you like you were when you were 22, then we have a conversation. And I'm not that I need this, but everybody in the audience out there is shaking their head. And this is insanity that you're considering this. And so Only a desperate person would go forward with this. Only a desperate, stupid woman. And you are neither of those things, so don't do it.

2:05:06I might be a little stupid because the only thing that makes me think, well, maybe. No. Would be, he said his full pension goes to his wife when he dies if he's been married here. No, no, no, no. You don't need.

2:05:21Ken Coleman:Well, then why are we still having this conversation? Go hang out with some fried green tomatoes and have some strong margaritas and cry yourself to sleep tonight about how lonely you are because that's what's going on. You're lonely.

2:05:45Ken Coleman:Up next, we are headed out to Chicago and Orlando for The Ramsey Show Live. Yep, you heard me right. We are taking this show to you. This is going to be everything you love about The Ramsey Show, except you get to be a part of it. Part of what, George? The Ramsey Show Live. Ken, that's what I'm telling them about. Ramsey Show Live in here? Nope, we're doing it on the road. You're going to Chicago with me and Rachel Cruz, September 30th. Are you free? The Windy City. I like it that time of year. You know what else I like, George? I like the deep dish. Oh, okay. Maybe we'll have some deep dish. You mind if I finish the promo?

2:06:18Ken Coleman:Is that okay with you? Okay. Okay. Appreciate that. Questions and answers, real conversations, and I'm sure a few surprises here and there. George, are you in here talking about TRS Live? I am, Jade, I'm trying to talk about it. Nice, so that means it's actually happening, right? It's happening, if I could tell the people, I think it could actually come to fruition. Listen, just tell me when and where. You don't, no, okay, we're going to Orlando, you're gonna join Dr. John Deloney and I October 2nd. Yes, okay, great, I'm gonna go pack now. Thanks, George. Please, please do that, go, pack. Hey George, speaking of packing, Is this like sweater weather or is it not that cold yet in Chicago?

2:06:54What is happening? Can I please just get to how they buy the tickets? Jeez, I thought it was a good question. Okay. This is not an arena tour. This is a one-night-only event in Chicago and Orlando.

2:07:06Ken Coleman:General admission is only$39. Plus, there's a VIP experience if you're bougie like that. But here's the thing. There's only 300 seats available. So get your tickets now at ramsysolutions.com slash events. Hey, how come you get to go to both cities? I just go where they tell me, man. Hey, have you been there the entire time? Maybe. Okay, and also, are you reading a children's book? I'm expanding my mind, George. That's how we got those PhDs. Yeah, that's probably where you got that jacket. Okay. See you on the road, John.