You'll Never Build a Strong Future On A Shaky Foundation

24:18Dave Ramsey:RamseySolutions.com slash market, or click the link in the show notes. Dawn is in Louisville, Kentucky. Hi, Dawn. How are you? I'm good. I am currently in the early stages of Baby Step 2. and I know in order for me to pay off my debt that I'm going to need to get a good side hustle and I want to turn it into something more than a side hustle. I recently became a commissioned notary public and I'm wanting to add to the services that I offer and become a loan signing agent. A what? You want to become a what? A loan signing agent. A loan signing agent. Yes, sir. You are on the internet. There's no such thing.

25:12Yes, it is. They help real Real estate agents close with their closings.

25:21Dave Ramsey:No, they don't. Real estate agents don't use that. You read that on the Internet. Somebody's trying to sell you a course, aren't they? The National Notary Association. Yeah. Yeah. There's no big money in notarizing stuff either. It's like 15 bucks a squeeze. It's not a big deal. And so, no, there are closing agents, and they work for title companies and or law firms that close real estate transactions. Real estate agents use those closing agents to run the payoffs down and to get the paperwork lined up, get the title searches done, and they don't work for real estate agents. They work for a title company and or a law firm that has a title company.

26:15Dave Ramsey:And that's who closes real estate loans and transactions. Real estate agents don't have loan closing agents. There's no such thing. Loan signing agents. Is that what you called it? Yes. A loan signing agent. Yeah, they're trying to sell you. How much is the course they're trying to sell you? How much does it cost? About$300. Yeah, that's about$300 I just saved you. you don't believe me you need to listen here's what you need to do you need to get off the phone and you need to call six real estate agents whose signs you see all over the place and ask them if they use a loan signing agent or a closing agent they do not they're gonna everyone i'm gonna tell you this thing doesn't exist i've had my real estate license since 1978 okay i own hundreds of millions of pieces of dollars in real estate i have never even heard of what the flip you're talking about.

27:07Dave Ramsey:Okay. And so it just doesn't exist. This is just one of those internet things where they're trying to get money out of you to get you to go get a class to do some side hustle that doesn't really exist. And it's, you know, we used to see that stuff in the back of comic books, but no. Did you just type it in over there while I heard you typing? I did. I did. What's it come up. AI says it's a thing. A loan signing agent is a notary, also known as a notary signing agent, specialized notary public who facilitates the final stages of a loan process. So, yep. That's a notary public saying that, but they don't do it.

27:45Dave Ramsey:Right. There's no actual thing out there. Yeah. That came, that AI picked that up on Google straight off those stinking people's websites. What happened? And that's right. Well, there's multiple links here that are all selling a course. Essentially. Yeah. Yeah. But I defy you to find a real estate agent that has one on staff. I promise you. Yeah, I was trying to think what we did when we went to an actual law firm is where we went on our last house. In Tennessee, a lot of the title companies are run by law firms. But in other places, sometimes just the title company does it. Right. Or sometimes in a small town, just title company does it.

28:20Dave Ramsey:It's not unusual for a law firm to be involved as the escrow agent or whatever. But believe me, they have a notary on staff. A notary is squeeze. That's it. That's what you do. It's not a thing. It's just put the little emblem on there and witness the signatures. It's, you know, it's not a thing. So I've been a notary most of my life. I finally dropped it because I just didn't have any need for it anymore. We got six in the building here. But, yeah. I think it would be funny for me to bring my documents to you, have you notarize them. That would be kind of fun. That has happened in years past at Ramsey.

28:57Dave Ramsey:Really? Not anymore. Somebody selling their car, they want their car title notarized. I got the number in my thing. Sign it. That's fun. Watch them sign it. No charge for Dave. I do think there's, to your point, there's just, if I'm you, Don, I'm going to go get a better paying side hustle. Yes. That's the play. And your mind is in the right space. I just think there's better bang for your time on that. Yeah. Quit. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. you go do something that's like um real you know like um you know here's the thing you can make about 50 bucks an hour right now cleaning houses and that's a whole lot more than you can make doing this you make 40 bucks an hour depending on you know which neighborhood you're in in Louisville, Kentucky, right?

29:53Dave Ramsey:Okay. If you've got, if you're a teacher, you can make 50 to$75 an hour tutoring after school. You don't want to go be a notary. You want to be a tutor, you know, go do something like that. That's pretty, you know, I would rather you have told me that you bought a set of clippers on Amazon and now you cut dog's hair because that's a real thing. And you actually would make money doing that. Yeah. By the way, you're right. You're talking about an average of$20 an hour for a notary, an average. Yeah, but you don't even get an hour. I know. That's my point. It takes about 45 seconds. Yeah, and you can make way more money doing something else.

30:32Dave Ramsey:Yeah, you don't get an hour out of that. I mean, if you notarize an hour's worth of papers, you're going to have a callous. I mean, that's a phone book. No, that doesn't work that way. So, guys, since I've been on the air, there have been scam artists of various kinds selling careers that don't exist. And or that have very minimal. The number of people that have become medical transcriptionists is like probably a hundred or a thousand fold the actual need. because they read somewhere that if you become a medical transcriptionist that you make no, no, no. There's just not that big a need. There's a need, but if there's a big enough need, a doctor just hires one working in his office.

31:24Dave Ramsey:I mean, it's just not like this massive union out there of medical transcriptionists who just run around. It just doesn't, you know. But, boy, a lot of people spend a lot of money doing that.

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33:28Dave Ramsey:Joe is with us in Columbus, Ohio. Hi, Joe. How are you? Good, good. How can we help? Yeah, so when I got out of college a couple years ago, I bought a business on land contract, and I'm now in a position to pay it off. My accountant told me not to, but I know sometimes you say not to follow accountant's advice, so I just wondered what I should do. Okay, you understand that on land contract, you don't own anything yet. Yeah, gotcha. So your accountant is suggesting that you don't stay in an ownership position. You're in a very unstable and vulnerable position, and your accountant suggested you stay there.

34:07Dave Ramsey:Mm-hmm. Because the business is not titled to you. Right, yeah, until I pay it off. I know. I know how a land contract works, yeah. That's what I'm telling you. Yeah. And so your accountant is a fool. You need to fire him. Okay, okay. Do you have the money to pay this off? yeah about 550 in the account and the balance is 450 on the loan what are you doing what's your business i've got a store selling what um jewelry things like that watches man you're killing it way to go how old are you 24 so you rolled into a gold mine no pun intended I did. I feel very blessed for what God has given me. Yeah, and you're obviously working your butt off.

34:56Dave Ramsey:Congratulations. So how long ago did you do this deal? About two years. And in two years, you put$550K in the bank? Yeah, we profit about$480K last year, and we're on track to profit about$500K this year. Dude, you are an absolute stud. I got really lucky, wasn't it? I wasn't lucky. You've been, hey, luck comes dressed in work clothes, man. Yeah. You've been getting it, and you've learned the business, and you're managing the business well. I'm dead serious. If I woke up in your shoes, I'd fire my accountant. He gave you bad legal advice and bad tax advice. Let me walk you through both, okay? One is the guy that owns the store right now is not you.

35:44Dave Ramsey:You are contracted to own the store, and this store is printing money. If he decides to go sideways and not give you this, you're going to have to sue him for title because you don't have the title to this business yet. So it's very important from a legal vulnerability position that you get this store into your name before this guy looks up and realizes you're bailing money over there. Yeah. Okay. Or worse than that, He has two glasses of wine at dinner and hits somebody head-on, and they sue him for$2 million, and one of his assets goes to the family that was hit head-on, and one of the assets is your store because it's not your store, it's his store.

36:29Oh, that's true, yeah.

36:30Dave Ramsey:Yeah, you're vulnerable big time. So your accountant is a fool. The second thing is your accountant is telling you to keep this loan that's not really a loan because you can write off the interest. correct? Well he said because at the end of the year my tax bill will be due he said I don't want to drain the accounts too much because I'm going to owe like $150 to$200 in taxes. You're going to have plenty of money aren't you? This is July. True yeah I got five more months to make some money. You'll be okay. And you got$550 you only need $480 plus$150. Right. You'll be there. Okay. So he wasn't telling you to keep it because the interest is a write-off?

37:16Dave Ramsey:No, no. He's just afraid you won't have the money to pay your taxes. By the way, you've got until April to pay your taxes, not the end of the year. Oh, that's right. Yeah, they're due April 15th or something? Exactly. So, yeah, I'm really scared. When someone that I'm counting on to give me good advice gives me bad advice, that means I need someone else to give me good advice. I believe in getting good advice. And the multitude of counsel their safety, the Bible says. But, yeah. Wow. I don't think you were clear enough on that. You think I held back? Yeah. I'd like to give Joe a little bit more advice.

37:57Dave Ramsey:It's not my day to hold back. No, I think it's great. I didn't get signed up for that this morning. Today, Joe, like pay it off today. Yeah, like. You're going to sleep really well. I have three lows of business. Now, I would go over there with a cashier's check and make sure he signs the book. paperwork into your name before I put my hat on a pillow tonight. Yeah. Run by the bank, get you a cashier's check right now, go pay the man. That's going to feel good. Oh, man. Well, I feel good just talking the job. He's just in here. You're 24 years old. He's making$4.80 last year. Yeah. Yeah. Ding, ding, ding.

38:31Dave Ramsey:Selling some jewelry. It was very ho-hum about that. But in America today, there's systemic problems, and the corporations have all the money, and the little man can't. Oh, shut up. Look at Joe. Let me just tell you, Joe's getting her done, man. I like it. Anthony. Anthony's in Boston. Hey, Anthony, how are you? Hey, Dave. I'm great. How are you? Better than I deserve. How can I help? Great. Thanks for taking my call. I'm really looking for some career advice here. So I'm 26 years old, living in Boston, currently working in corporate America. But my real passion is in firefighting, which I've been doing part-time since 2018.

39:07and recently I got the opportunity to get hired by a full-time department where I grew up. The issue is my parents, who I've always kind of turned for financial and career advice, don't support this decision. And they say I'm leaving potential on the table because I could be using my degrees, making four times as much in corporate America. So I'm wondering if you think I should follow my passion and have a lower wage throughout my career. Four times? Yeah, what do you make now? So right now I'm only making$85. What's your degree? I have my MBA. Yeah, but what's your path? If you play this out, mom and dad, does mom and dad's prediction match up to the actual path that you have corporately?

39:54I'd say so, yeah, at the company I'm at right now. And you would make how much and how many years?

39:58Dave Ramsey:A quarter million dollars a year. Just about, yeah. Yeah, that's what my managers make. And how long did it take to get there? About 10 to 12 years from where I'm at right now. Yeah, forget it. Plus or minus BS. What are you going to make as a firefighter? I just looked up on the internet, but I want to know what you know. What's the average? So I actually have inside of the union contract where I'll be getting hired, and my base salary will be around 80, but it will only increase about 2 % to 3 % every year. So that's where they see it being an issue if I want to have a family in the expensive market that Boston is.

40:38Dave Ramsey:The firefighters that I know typically work 410s or 312s? Correct, yeah. This would be one-on, one-off, one-on, five days off. So that's another thing. So use your MBA and do what all the other firefighters I know do and start a side business. Yeah, but what about overtime? That 84 or 80 base, what's your overtime possibilities? So right now it's a lot. But, yeah, it could be an extra$15 ,000 to$30 ,000 a year on average. Yeah, I'm seeing multiple sources that have a range of$84 ,000 to$134 ,000, and these are legitimate job sites. I mean, so this isn't like, you know, so you've got an opportunity.

41:18Here's the point that I would make. You can do very well through what Dave said, side hustles on that downtime or overtime, and if you invest wisely, you're only 26. Do you have any debt at all? No debt and a pretty good nest egg. Then I'm going to tell you this right now. Now, you will resent your mother and father if you do what they wish for you. Now, I think their heart is in the right place. They want the best for you. But in this case, this is an open and closed case for me that you should pursue being a fireman and pursue the life that you want to live. Because you're going to be a very unhappy, regretful, and resentful person if you play this out as mom and dad want you to.

41:59And for that reason, I would say, no, don't do what mom and dad tell you there.

42:04Dave Ramsey:And I'll reiterate and say there was something you were scratching when you went and got the MBA other than just following their wishes. And so you probably have pretty serious business acumen. And there's no reason you can't start a side hustle that probably doubles your income. Again, I know a lot of firefighters we've worked with over the years. And it's not unusual for one of them to have a business that makes as much as they make being a fireman. because of the way your schedule works. You've just got tons of time to work on stuff. So I really would pursue that. But I just say love you, Mom and Dad, and I just think I'm going to go this way.

42:42Dave Ramsey:And the good news about being 28 is they have an opinion, but they don't get a vote.

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44:46Dave Ramsey:live from the headquarters of ramsey solutions it's the ramsey show we help people build wealth do work that they love and create actual amazing relationships ken coleman ramsey personality number one best-selling author and host of the runaway hit front row seat on the ramsey network he's my co-host today i gotta tell you ken one of my favorite episodes and one of my favorite people become a good friend recently just dropped i guess today yeah this morning on front row seat uh he's moved to our area here and he and i become friends during the time he's been here a guy named Jimmy John. And yes, that's the sandwich.

45:31Dave Ramsey:And yes, he did sell that organization for billions with an S. And yes, he has some really great stories. You have to watch this episode of Front Row Seat. You will be blown away. You will learn something, you will laugh, and I dare say you will probably cry. You will cry. And I will tell you, if you have a kid, a teenager, a college student who's thinking entrepreneurial, working for themselves, if you yourself have got a side hustle trying to get out of debt, watch this episode. It'll put fire under you because this guy started off with absolutely nothing and sheer hustle. And all kinds of obstacles.

46:11Dave Ramsey:And it's a great American success story. That's exactly right. And he's a good guy. Oh, he's a joy to listen to. Yeah, it's just fun. He's a fun storyteller. So you're going to love this episode. Front row seat. And you can find it on podcast and YouTube both. And this episode, I think that episode dropped today. And we taped one yesterday with me and John Maxwell and Pat Lencioni. And those two guys are like walking encyclopedias on leadership. And me and Ken got to watch them. I mean, it was like gold. It was gold. So I was there for the comedy relief and they were there for the talent. But, man, it was incredible.

46:47Dave dropped some dimes. They all did. It's going to be special. It's going to be special.

46:52Dave Ramsey:That one, after you finish with the edit, will be great. I don't know. We're kicking the idea around of releasing it in two parts. Here's the first hour. Here's the second hour because there were no edits necessary. They were just gold. Oh, you're a sight. There's some stuff. All right. Jennifer is in Boston. Hey, Jennifer, how are you? I am fantastic. How are you guys? Better than I deserve. How can we help? Awesome. Well, I have a question about how to move forward after financial infidelity. I found out in the fall about$100 ,000 of debt that I didn't know about, and we have paid it off. We're in baby step three.

47:33We're about halfway through baby step three right now with about$25 ,000. What was that that used to purchase? It was credit cards that I didn't know about and also tax debt. What was the credit card?

47:45Dave Ramsey:What was purchased on the credit cards? um my husband was laid off and was using a credit card um for a time span that i did not know about okay so he was handling 100 of the household money correct and the way he covered the lack of income was he borrowed for the family on credit cards exactly and you didn't know about it because you're not involved in the handling of the money i was not at that time since i found out about that. We have combined finances. I insisted upon that. I insisted on counseling. I insisted on a budget and we use every dollar budgeting app, but he hates the budget. He says sharing accounts and the budget are the worst decision he's ever made.

48:28He doesn't track expenses. He undermines the budget by going on solo trips and spending when and where he wants. Every question about the budget turns into a huge argument. The threats of leaving and the perception of others is incredibly important. So even having a budget is embarrassing to him. And I don't know if we can get past this. I don't know how to get on the same page. I don't know how. I don't know what to do.

48:57Dave Ramsey:How is the therapy done? I'm sorry. It hasn't gone well. He hates going to therapy because when he goes to therapy, he feels like a failure. Because he's failing. Yeah. Cause you feel like a failure. Yeah. When you're failing at your marriage and because you do whatever the flip you want to do, regardless of the implications of it, then that wouldn't be embarrassing in therapy. Yeah. That makes sense. That's logical. It's kind of like, it's kind of like eight to 17 donuts and then going and seeing your trainer, you know, I mean, it's like, yeah, it doesn't go well. You know, I say, yeah. Oh, okay.

49:31Dave Ramsey:Okay.

49:37Dave Ramsey:Well, this is not a financial problem, hon. It's a marriage problem. It's manifesting itself. It's manifesting itself in the finances, but it's a I want to do what I want to do thing, and I don't want to be aligned with and be in agreement with anyone else. I don't want anyone else speaking into any of my decisions. I don't really want to be married is what he's actually saying, I'm afraid. I hope not. I hope I'm wrong, but that's kind of what the, you know, Deloney taught me a saying when I'm hanging out with him with his PhD in counseling. He says, behavior is a language. I say that all the time.

50:17Yeah.

50:17Dave Ramsey:And that's, that's what this is. It's what I'm seeing. It's regardless of what you're saying, it's what you do. And what he's doing is screaming, you know, I don't really want to build a life together. I want to be able to do whatever I want to do when I want to do it, like a four-year-old on the cereal aisle throwing a fit because they want Froot Loops. I agree. It's very immature, what you're describing. because you can be mature and say, hey, part of putting the budget together is I want to have money to do X. And that's a fair argument. But instead just going, well, I don't really like this.

51:00Dave Ramsey:It's the worst decision I've ever made because it's actually somebody holding me accountable now for my ridiculous behaviors. So, golly, that's so sad. I'm so sorry. Well, I think the answer is in your pastor's office and in your marriage counselor's office, that if the two of you can solve for building a future together rather than trying to be roommates. Hey, Jennifer, do you know enough about his past to know if he comes from an entitlement? Very much so. I had a sense of that. I am no therapist, don't want to try to be one, but I've got a hunch. I would talk to the therapist about this, get some real professional insight, a pastor as well.

51:48But I think it's, if this marriage could be fixed, would you do whatever it takes? Absolutely. Okay. I wouldn't have stayed with the wife. That's what I thought. He's been lying since the beginning of our marriage. I had a hunch.

52:00Dave Ramsey:How long have you been married? Six years. Okay. Let me finish this thought, Jennifer. Okay, I just wanted to get there. Yeah, no, I had a hunch, and I don't know why I had that hunch, but I had a hunch that he came from entitlement. And I think if it were me, with guidance, I would draw a line in the sand and put him in a situation where he realizes he's got to decide. I think he's threatened you before to leave, and I think that's a spoiled brat play. It feels very entitled, and I don't know that he doesn't need his bluff called. And I think it's that serious. But I get some other insight on that.

52:36I'm not talking about a threat, but I mean a real boundary, a line in the sand. If you don't change, this is done. I don't think he's ever had any consequences in his life. I'd talk to somebody about that. That's just a hunch.

52:47Dave Ramsey:His mommy's a helicopter, right? um just they're perfect he's perfect yeah that's yeah that sounds right the latest argument the latest argument from this weekend was because i just realized that after weeks after months he still hasn't switched his direct deposit over so that it's going into our joint account well i would have realized that the first week i think yeah uh yeah you guys you need it's the marriage counseling office that this gets saved, kid. It's not here. I'm sorry. Sorry you're facing this.

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55:35Mainly, me and my husband were blessed about three weeks ago when he just went into the local gas station and just grabbed a random scratch-off lottery ticket. Ended up being a$1 million scratch-off ticket. You've got to be kidding me. Wow. Are you for real? Yes. Yes. We're still in shock. I'll bet. Oh, my goodness. Tell me really quick. How did he tell you? What was that like? Oh, confused. I was completely confused. He, I don't know, he panicked. He couldn't even make a sentence. He panicked. Exactly. He ran home, which was only just a couple blocks away. And I forgot the car. Yeah, where was the car?

56:22That's great. Well, he drove home. He drove home. Oh, I'm kidding. He probably shouldn't have because he was so, so. That's so funny. Oh, wow.

56:31Dave Ramsey:Okay, so you've been in contact with the state, I assume. Yes, we just claimed it about a week ago. We try to do our research. We are way in over our heads.

56:49Dave Ramsey:We both agreed to take the lump sum, which ends up being$600 ,000, Right. Which we are still happy and feel very blessed to have that. It's more than you had the week before. Exactly. Now you have a different appreciation for taxes, don't you? Oh, yes. Yeah. Now, that's the lump sum because the million was a payout over a number of years, but that's not net of taxes, correct? No. After we finally receive it, which should probably be another month or so, and after taxes, it ends up being a little bit over$400 ,000. Yeah. Yeah. Hello. And who told you that? Who told you that? When we went to go claim it, they broke it all down for us.

57:38I mean, that's kind of what I found out in my research. Okay.

57:41Dave Ramsey:No, no, no, no. Stop. Okay. Stop. Okay. Sorry. So first thing we're going to do is get a tax professional to find out what's real and what's not there. And the state of Illinois has a tax, and, of course, the federal government has a tax in the United States. But you need a tax professional that can sit down and work it all through. We don't research numbers this big. We don't research information on the Internet. Everything on the Internet is true. Abraham Lincoln said that, right? So not. So you get bad information there, and you get bad information when you use bureaucrats at the state who hand out lottery proceeds.

58:20Dave Ramsey:They're not tax professionals. So it's going to be worth$1 ,000 or whatever it is,$500, to get some professional tax advice. That's the first thing you do. And you can get one just going to RamseySolutions.com. Find an ELP, an endorsed local provider that does taxes that is Ramsey trusted that we have vetted, and we know what they're doing. and they need to go and you need to feel very calm and peaceful when you leave their office after having learned about what the actual taxes are. And they can show you in just a few minutes to the penny. Okay. I think the numbers you got might have been aggressive.

58:59Dave Ramsey:I don't think your taxes are going to be quite that bad, but they are going to be bad. Okay? Yeah. So you're going to learn about that. Then you figure out what you've got left after taxes. And then what are you going to do? Two things that we planned on is we want to pay off the house. And we do have credit card debt. Okay. How much are those two things? The house is right underneath$100 ,000. And then our credit card debt would be about$23 ,000. Okay. I like those plans. Yes. Those are good plans. Okay. And what do you drive? I drive a Kia. My husband and I both have cars that are completely paid off.

59:46Dave Ramsey:I know. How old are they? How worn out are they? Mine is still in great condition, I think. It's a 2015 Kia. So you don't need to upgrade yours. What about his? I think he probably wants to upgrade his because it's starting to give him a little bit of car problems. We've been having to fix it up a little bit. What is it? Um, it's a 2017 Chevy. Okay. So, um, this is a little bit newer, but it's like I said, his has given us a little issue lately. Yeah, I gotcha. Okay. So you put a budget on that and you don't break that budget. What's your household income? Ah, good question. Um, I believe he makes, uh, about 50 ,000 a year.

1:00:30Um, I probably make a little under that 40 or 45 a year. All right.

1:00:37Dave Ramsey:So the people that have regrets and that people tell ugly stories about after they win the lotto are those that are not intentional. You have to be very careful and very intentional. So kind of what we're doing right now is what I would recommend, and that is we begin to lay out before the money gets here, after meeting with the tax person, first thing we do is pay taxes, second thing we do is this, third thing we do is that, and so on. And you basically have a budget, you know, say we've got$500 ,000 or whatever the number is, and we spend that. So we've spent$123 ,000. We put another$20 ,000 on car.

1:01:17Dave Ramsey:So we spent$143 ,000. What are we going to do with this? We're going to give some. We're going to invest some. We're going to invest a lot. And we're going to go on with our lives by being on a budget and not tap into this money. And I don't care if you want to go on a trip and celebrate. I don't care if you want to upgrade your couch. All of those things are fine. Those aren't the things that get lottery winners in trouble. The things that get lottery winners in trouble is when they get a half a million and they go spend$5 million. Yes, that's what I'm afraid of. I want to be very careful. Like I said, I'm overwhelmed.

1:01:51I didn't know where to start.

1:01:53Dave Ramsey:The way you eat an elephant is a bite at a time. So we're going to write the number at the top of the page that we're getting after, And then minus taxes and then minus house, exactly, minus credit cards and cut them up so they don't grow back. Yes. And don't walk around acting like you're rich because you're going to figure out pretty quick you ain't rich. This is sweet, and it's very nice, and I'm happy for you. But you didn't get$5 million. You got$500 ,000. And it'll be gone in about an eye blink if you're not really, really careful. So I kind of want you to be in a not terrified and not paralyzed with fear, but I want you to have a healthy fear, a healthy respect of someone just handed you a loaded gun and you don't know anything about guns.

1:02:40Dave Ramsey:Be very careful to learn. I have that fear already. Okay. That is why I call you guys. I'm just scared it's going to be gone before we know it. No, no, no, no, no. It won't be if you do what I'm talking about. If you write down where every one of these dollars, give them every name before they come, we're going to put$150 ,000 in savings. We're going to spend$50 ,000 renovating this. We're going to go on a cruise for$10 ,000. I don't care what it is as long as when you total it all up, it equals the amount you're going to get. And just make a list down the page until every dollar is going into something.

1:03:14Dave Ramsey:generosity, investing, fun, upgrade car, pay off credit cards, trip, couch. I'm making these things up. I don't know what they are, okay? Yeah. But write them down, and then both of you look at that, and you've got a little time to get ready emotionally before. And so when the check comes, it's boring. Yeah. Because you just execute your little list. Mm-hmm. Right. And there's no emotion. There's no four-year-old dancing around the kitchen. We've already had that moment. That was pretty cool. I'm okay with that. But don't dance around the kitchen after you get the check and change your plan. Develop a plan, and then it's boring.

1:03:55Dave Ramsey:You just execute the plan. Got it. Okay. Now, the second person I'm going to send you to is you need to sit down with a smart investor pro, someone to help you learn about investing and decide where you're going to invest some of this. Yeah. Okay. I would really appreciate that because we really don't have much of a retirement plan. Yeah, and they need to have the heart of a teacher, and they can show you, okay, you can put this much into a Roth, you can put this much into this, and you can start your mutual funds over here, and so on. How old are you guys? 40. I'm 40 and my husband's 39. If you invest$300 ,000, in seven years it'll be$600 ,000, and in seven more years it'll be$1.2 million, and in seven more years it'll be$2.4 million.

1:04:47Dave Ramsey:God, that would be nice. Yeah, but you've got to keep your stinking hands off of it, and you've got to invest it. So go to RamseySolutions.com and click on Smart Investor Pro and sit down with someone with the heart of a teacher. You've got a real opportunity to change your family tree if you're careful.

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1:06:50Dave Ramsey:So when it comes to cultural phenomenon, like things that are popular on television and things like that you know there's a whole uh curve you can look at on anything out there there's early adopters the people that are the first to the party there's the early majority the late majority the last to the party uh on these things is called the laggards and when it comes to cultural icon things like what's popular on television because i don't watch television much i'm definitely a laggard like i it i was several years behind before i lost my man card watching Downton Abbey. All my friends had already lost their man card watching Downton Abbey.

1:07:29Dave Ramsey:It was already a thing of the past by the time I got there. But I watched them all. I watched them all. I was just a laggard. I just got there very, very late. And so I distinctly remember around the year 2000 when MTV was failing and they started, no one was watching music videos anymore.

1:07:54Dave Ramsey:So they just following teenagers around being teenagers. And the second show I think they ever put out, everybody started talking about it, and I was the last of the party, and I was a laggard, and I turned it on, and this hardcore rock star is just debilitated by his former drug use, Ozzy Osbourne, and he's screaming through the house at his wife, Sharon! Sharon! And that's the only thing I remember about the first reality TV shows. And Ozzy just, we just heard he just passed away. Yeah. So God rest his soul. 76 years old. Did you take that and start doing that to Sharon in your house with the accent?

1:08:38Dave Ramsey:No, no. Yeah, definitely. Definitely. Never used an intercom system. No. No, I never. No, I was afraid to because I would afraid of the reaction I would. Yeah, I was going to say, I know her and I don't think that would have lasted very long. That would just not go well. You know, it's a different, and, you know, the English hillbilly accent together just doesn't work out. Not bad, actually, though. But sad to hear Ozzy's passing. Yeah. He's iconic. Iconic. Absolutely. One of his contemporaries had moved to Nashville a few years ago. We got to know him, Meatloaf. Oh, yeah. And Meatloaf was a fun guy.

1:09:10Dave Ramsey:He was a character. And I got to know him, spent a little time with him. Never met Ozzy, but Meatloaf passed away in 2020. And really miss him. But an incredible dude. It was a lot of fun. So that era of those guys and gals, they're special, especially for an old dude like me. I mean, that's pretty cool. I got Mama. I'm coming home in my head right now. There you go. There it is. All right. Zach is in Philadelphia. Hey, Zach, what's up? How you doing, sir? Not bad. How about you? Better than I deserve. How can I help? So, first of all, thank you for taking my call, sir. And I've listened to you for a while, but unfortunately over the last couple of years I made a few bad financial choices.

1:09:56Dave Ramsey:Oh, you weren't listening. You were just listening. Yeah, I was. Okay. I got myself out of debt the first time using your guy's insurance. Oh, you really did? Okay. I did, yep, I did. And then I went to the military, had some crazy things happen, including getting in a big car wreck with someone that wasn't insured. So I kind of racked up some debt there in addition to student loans, things like that. So I'm just looking for your advice. So how much debt have you got now, hon? About$250 ,000. Yo! Yep, a lot. What? How much are that student loans? About$190 ,000. Are you a doctor or a lawyer? I have a master's degree, so my undergraduate's in architecture and economics, and I have a master's in real estate development.

1:10:46A master's in real estate development.

1:10:47Dave Ramsey:For what? Oh, my God. What are you doing for a living? So, like I said, I just got out of the Marine Corps. I was an officer. I'm looking at going back in, but I am in real estate development now. So I develop real estate on the side. So these degrees were pre-military? Correct, yes, sir. Oh, wow. She's been hanging around with her stuff. Well, thank you for your service to the country, hon. How old are you? Of course, sir. I'm 26. Okay. Well, I mean, you already know the formula, man. You've done it before. It's just got a lot more zeros on it this time, right? It's got a lot more zeros, yes, sir.

1:11:25Dave Ramsey:Yeah, and so it's income minus outgo. Get the income up and the outgo down and throw everything at the debt. Are you single? Yep. Yes, sir. Okay. What will you make this year in your real estate development world? About$95 ,000. Okay. And you're single? Yes, sir. Okay. And so you're living on, I don't know, beans and rice, rice and beans. And how much are we going to throw? $60 ,000 at this? At least, sir. So, I mean, I just got out of the military. I'm back living with my folks. I have pretty much no, I don't pay any rent. I don't really have my work pays for food. So most of that money I can throw towards the debt.

1:12:11I have about$25 ,000 in liquidity.

1:12:14Dave Ramsey:Good. Let's just throw everything at the debt. Throw everything at the debt. Throw everything at the debt. And do everything you can to increase your income without doing something stupid and irrationally get you into a bigger mess of some kind. Real estate will do that in a heartbeat. But let's just keep rolling with the income. And it sounds like it's going to take you three years unless something changes on the income dramatically, doesn't it? Yes, sir. I mean, I'm projected to make probably$150 next year. Well, then, okay. because I just started. But I'm just wondering, the actual APRs on this debt is relatively low.

1:12:50So do I start putting some money in CDs to beat the APR? My personal loans are at 2.9%. They're specific for military.

1:13:01Dave Ramsey:Honey, we're not trying to make a spread. We're trying to live. Sure. Good to go, sir. You've created a dadgum mess. You didn't clean up the mess. Quit trying to do math. The only math you need to do is how much I can throw at this debt. There's no trick bag to get you out of this. The trick bag is you go make a pile of money and you throw a pile of money at your big old mess. Yes, sir. That's how you do it. You need to put your MBA calculator up and just go, how much money can I make and how much can I not spend and thus throw everything at this? There's no tricking out of this. If you start trying to trick out this, that's where you're going to get yourself more broke.

1:13:41Okay.

1:13:42Dave Ramsey:No, let's just say how fast can I do this? How deep can I sacrifice? How singularly focused can I become? And that is the answer to your equation. Yeah, I mean, the only thing I can say is, is you're young enough that you can dig out of this. It's not going to be fun, but I mean, work like there's no tomorrow. I'd be taking on two and three jobs. and stroke that check tonight what dave said that you have 25 000 in liquid cash tonight i mean follow the baby steps so 23 of that or 24 of that is immediately today you need some momentum today shock your system and get you know start writing out your plan you know how to run spreadsheets run them run your spreadsheet out get on every dollar download the app start to run out okay what's my debt-free date if i make 90 and then i make 150 uh and what else can i do without getting myself further in debt to get out of this debt so and then the last thing you need to do in this thing zach is you need to analyze what broke in your brain because your brain was working and then it quit working and what what happened what caused your brain to break i had to do the same thing when i went broke and lost everything okay what what was wrong with my theory i had to do an autopsy bring in csi and do an autopsy on the patient because the patient was a moron in my case and i want to go okay i don't want to be a moron anymore so i need to stop doing this what is what was what did i what did you what things did you believe that were wrong you nailed it in his case he believed that a master's degree would make him so much more money in the field that he's in and it's not going to you call that out immediately 190 of the 250 is degree related I know real estate developers all over America, the number of them that have a master's degree in real estate development is precisely zero of the ones that I know.

1:15:35Dave Ramsey:It is not a requirement to do that well. And he swallowed a broken, incorrect cultural message that an MBA is going to automatically put you in a different tax bracket. And that's just a bunch of garbage. Boys and girls, the secret sauce to your success is in your mirror. It is not on a college campus. It's not in a trade school. It's not in your mama's advice. It's in your mirror. You get off your butt, you leave the cave, you kill something, you drag it home. If you want a sharper axe, then go get a little education. That's fine. But quit looking to education to be your success. Your success is in your mirror.

1:16:16Dave Ramsey:It's your get them. Get them. That's where success comes from.

1:16:53Dave Ramsey:The Ramsey Show. Question of the day is brought to you by Why Refi. When the payment on your defaulted private student loan is as much as some mortgages, it's hard to get ahead. That's when Why Refi can help refinancing to a low fixed rate loan built just for you. Find out more at whyrefi.com slash Ramsey. That's the letter Y-R-E-F-Y dot com slash Ramsey. Might not be in all states. Today's question comes from Colin in Arizona. How do you know when it's time to leave a business that you helped start? I earn$500 ,000 a year, but the toll on my mental and emotional health is substantial. Considering my persistent feeling of disrespect from the other owners, the income has become irrelevant.

1:17:35The business brings in around$3 million a year. Despite this, there are no regular meetings, no formal policies, and very little collaboration between owners. Most decisions are made by a gentleman's agreement, and when I raise concern, I'm told, don't rock the boat. I want to grow the business, but the other owners have an attitude of working on the business doesn't generate revenue. My only debt is$350 ,000 on our mortgage, which we could probably pay off if my partners buy out my shares. At what point is walking away the right thing to do? It feels like, Colin, you've reached that point. You know, look, this is a situation where I don't see an end to this.

1:18:17This is going to be a consistent frustration, and this does have an impact on you mentally and emotionally. when you've got a three-headed cow here at the ownership, and this is sticky, it's gross, and if you can get the other owners to buy you out, it feels like the time is right. Pay off the house. It sounds like you're entrepreneurial. Refocus, and I think this is the right thing. Based on what I know here, this doesn't feel like this is going to get any better.

1:18:43Dave Ramsey:There's two reasons that you need to be bought out immediately. One is you're miserable and you're done. Two is the misbehavior of the business operations are going to cause the failure of the business and you're going to ride the horse till it dies. And it's going to die. The DNA change of death is already in the workings of this business. the things that they are not doing like operating the business well are going to cause the failure of the business their lack of character and the way they disrespect and treat another owner is going to be one of the things that that lack of character that is is one of the ways it manifests itself in the way they treat you that doesn't mean it means to me that you're not the only one that gets treated that way the team and the talent gets treated that way the customers and the vendors get treated that way.

1:19:41Dave Ramsey:These guys are buttholes. And this is why partnerships are the only ship that won't sail, is this right here. And this will cause the end of the business. So you cannot be under the illusion that this is a perpetual$500 ,000 a year income. It is not. It's going to fail. I don't know when exactly. It might be five months. It might be five years. But the probability of this being your income from this business, if you stuck around miserable for an extended period of time, is precisely zero. That's the second reason that you get out. Because don't be under the illusion. You can't compare your decision to, ooh, I walked away from a half million dollars.

1:20:22Dave Ramsey:You didn't because there's not going to be a half million dollars. Right now it is. And so as they say in Tennessee, as we say in Tennessee, get out while the getting's good. Yes. This be the time, brother. I'm going to run like my hair is on fire. And next time you get ready to be in a partnership, don't. And this right here is the reason. Heather is with us. Heather is in Orlando. Hi, Heather. How are you? Good. Thank you for taking my call, gentlemen. Sure. What's up? I am the only child of a mother who was just diagnosed with Alzheimer's dementia. Prior to that, I got health care surrogate.

1:21:04Thank you. Prior to that, I got health care surrogate and POA. Someone told me to have a quick claim deed the house. No. And I did because it was paid off. Why? I know. I didn't. I didn't. I kind of panicked before the diagnosis came.

1:21:25Dave Ramsey:Well, you have a power of attorney. You don't need to quick claim the house. Oh, I understand. All right. So anyway. So you've got power of attorney. And how old is your mom, hon? She's 73. What's her name? What's her name? Judy. Judy. Okay. And your dad's gone? They're divorced. Okay. She was single. Okay. And her house was paid off. I am a widow of a VA, so I have VA benefits. So I am able to transfer over my VA benefit on her taxes now. So I would get the widow and the homestead. Oh, on the property taxes. Yes, sir. Yes, sir. I see. All right. But I'm finding all of these, I'm overwhelmed with all of the, sorry, Disney stocks and Merrill Lynch and computers.

1:22:27They, like, all these different ones. Some were inherited by my grandfather when he passed.

1:22:32Dave Ramsey:So she has some investments that you don't understand? A bunch of them, like from different companies. Okay, and who has been managing those? Does she have a financial planner? She just has Merrill Lynch and these companies that are holding these stocks. She originally started at Disney, so she has Disney and Penn State Oil and just like so many. Okay, but you have documentation on all of it. Yeah, I gathered as much as I can. Merrill Lynch suggested that I do a state attorney to tell me what to do with all these. Do you have any idea what the value of all of that is? I know just a loan, the Merrill Lynch with the retirement and those stocks is$500 ,000.

1:23:20Dave Ramsey:Okay. All right. Good. Well, an estate planning attorney would be a good thing, but it's not going to help you with what your problem is. Your problem is you feel overwhelmed and inadequate because you don't understand all of these investments. And that's not bad. It just means you're human. Yes, sir. Okay. And I've got three. A state planning attorney didn't help you with that. Okay. So what you need is someone in your corner with the heart of a teacher. And if the folks at Merrill Lynch are not able to teach you what this stuff is and get you comfortable with it, and it sounds like that their only thing they've thrown at you so far is just getting a lawyer, but that's not the answer to the equation.

1:24:01Dave Ramsey:The answer is you need someone in your corner that teaches you how to manage this well for your mother, and I assume you're the sole heir. Yes, sir. Okay, and so for your mother, and really ultimately you are managing this for you because she probably won't need this money. Yes, sir, and I need to add on a mother-in-law suite. Her house is paid off, but I didn't. A home equity loan or a VA loan. No, you don't. If you've got a half a million dollars, you're not going to go borrow money to do this. Yes, sir. You're going to use her money to add on anything that needs to be added on. Okay. Because I was confused by the Merrill Lynch lady when she said, oh, if you cash out before she passes, if it's worth$10, you pay taxes on nine of it.

1:24:49And if she waits until after she passes, then you get 11 of that. That's called a stepped-up basis. That's right.

1:24:55Dave Ramsey:She was right about that. But that doesn't matter. We're not cashing the whole thing out. We're just going to cash out enough to do whatever it needs to take care of your mom's physical needs at your home. Yeah, I'm so overwhelmed. And I would spend that as a minimal amount, okay? So the best way to do away with being overwhelmed always is to take a big problem and break it down into little problems. Yes, sir. Okay. So how many little problems do we have here? Well, every one of those accounts is a little problem until I understand it. getting a bid on and paying cash for the least work we can do to our home to take care of mom i do not want you spending a hundred thousand dollars adding a wing on your house don't do that okay for a 73 year old with a dementia diagnosis so now we're going to spend the minimal amount we're going to take care of mom we're not we're not putting her out in the backyard in a dog house or something we're to take care of her, but we're also not going to build the Taj Mahal on the end of your house.

1:26:01Dave Ramsey:So you need to have some basic information on those things. I would recommend that you get someone else in your corner. Go to RamseySolutions.com and click on SmartVestor Pro and get one of these SmartVestor Pros that's got the heart of a teacher to sit down with you and begin to unpack this and sit there with someone with a teaching heart until you understand what's going on. It may take you a little bit. That's okay. But that's now your new job. You need to learn how to manage this half million dollars and you can do it. It's not hard, but you need somebody to help you with it.

1:26:43Hey guys, George Camel here with some exciting news for our Financial Peace University coordinators. If you've ever led FPU or even just thought about it, you've got to join us for our coordinator rally happening on July 24th. It's packed with insider updates, powerful stories, and encouragement from me, Jade Warshaw, and Dr. John Deloney. It's totally free, and when you register, you'll be entered to win our$3 ,000 giveaway. So just head to fpu.com slash rally to save your spot today. That's fpu.com slash rally.

1:27:28Dave Ramsey:Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Thank you for joining us, America. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Ken Coleman is my co-host, Ramsey Personality, number one best-selling author, and host of a brand-new hit on Ramsey Network called Front Row Seat. Be sure and check that out, particularly this week's version that we just dropped. It's excellent. All right, Lisa is with us in Jacksonville, Florida. Hi, Lisa. How are you? Okay, thank you for letting me call you.

1:28:13Dave Ramsey:Sure. How can we help? Well, I thought I was doing work that I loved, and I thought I was locked in until I got to my full retirement age, but the company that I worked for did a layoff. And so now I find myself 64 years old and not quite ready to retire, but needing to look at it as a possibility, and I don't know what my next steps need to be. What did you do? What was your field and title and all that jazz? I was an editor. An editor. And have been doing it. I've been doing that for, well, off and on for many years. What type of editing?

1:29:00I was a specialty editor. I worked on directories for professional and trade organizations. so it was part technical writing and part journalism but I've done both of those in my life so I enjoyed the work but it's done now so not necessarily so one of the things first of all this is the kind of thing that just knocks you kind of off kilter and there's a lot of emotional stuff with all that one of the things in the days ahead that you want to really make sure that you focus on is how much skill you've developed and how transferable that writing experience is. You've got multiple different types of writing disciplines that you can prove and the skill of editing, you know, really play that out and go, what does it take?

1:29:48You don't have to answer this on the air for sake of time. But if I were to ask you, tell me the skills involved in being a good editor and you would answer that. And that's a good exercise to write that out because what's important right now is you have to continue to work correct is that what i'm getting well i i was planning to but well that's different than do you have to work i'm not sure yet all right give us the give us the rundown on your numbers and we'll come back to the work part how much is in your nest egg i have about 80 000 in my nest egg um and and then I have about another$16 ,000 that I have saved in my current or my most recent company's retirement program.

1:30:36So I'll roll that into the other savings that I have.

1:30:44And my baby steps are a little bit out of order. But I have about$9 ,000, a little over$9 ,000 in consumer debt. I own a home. I have about$70 ,000 left on my mortgage. And I think a part-time job is completely reasonable. But I'm not in a position to relocate. I think you're looking for a full-time job.

1:31:17Dave Ramsey:Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. You don't have a very big nest egg. You've still got$70 ,000 in debt on your house. and you don't have a, you know, you're not telling me you got some kind of$20 ,000 a month pension coming in or something like that. So it sounds to me like you're still working, probably at least till you're 70. And so, yeah, you're looking for another move in your career. So back to Ken then, you know, proximity principle. That's right. And so what, if I were you, I am reaching out to everybody I know to tell them that you're a free agent. I would try to get as much freelance stuff as I could right away.

1:31:58And this is for momentum sake, right? So you absolutely do need a full-time job. But in the interim, tonight, like when you get off the phone call, we're looking for some freelance writing projects or editing projects. You scour the internet. If you don't know how to do it, you know somebody that's in their 20s and they'll show you. and you're looking at everything available and you're focusing on your experience and what you've done. You have an impressive resume. That's the first thing. Let's get as much work as we can right away while we're looking for the full-time job. And for you at this stage, you're going to have to look outside of this lane that you've been in because it's very unsettling to be at a company for so long and then all of a sudden I'm out.

1:32:37And so you're looking at any kind of writing gig that you can get or a job where you're editing and you've got experience and that's what you're leading with. I'm a good locker room presence. Tell the story. Don't be ashamed of being laid off. This happens at large companies. Own that narrative. Confidence up. And I'd like to give you my best-selling book, The Proximity Principle. This is going to walk you through in a really plain-spoken way. What are my next moves to connect with people so that opportunities knock on my door? So hang on the line, and Kelly will get you The Proximity Principle.

1:33:11Tony's in Denver.

1:33:12Dave Ramsey:Hey, Tony, what's up? Thank you for taking my call. So I'm currently in a, I have my property at 2.75 % and I am looking at refinancing at 6.9%. However, I'm doing it as an investment. I'm trying to build a shop in my backyard. I already have a renter lined up for$2 ,000 a month, but I need$100 ,000 in order to build it. Is it smart to adjust my mortgage rate at this point in time? It is not smart to borrow money to build a shop in the backyard. Okay. We don't teach people to borrow money for investing. Okay. Now, the other thing is I do have a rental property that I'm currently getting income from.

1:34:00What would you suggest in order for me to build that$100 ,000 to invest in that and build in a shop?

1:34:08Dave Ramsey:Why do you need a$100 ,000 shop? Maybe make the case for that really quick. He's renting it for$2 ,000 a month. Yeah, but there's more to it than that, isn't there? Well, I want to build this mechanic shop. It's going to have lift in there and all this and get the electricity, the plumbing, all that. I'm about between$60 ,000 to$100 ,000. Yeah, but what's the end ROI on all that investment? What do you hope to do with that equipment? it um i hope to utilize it to uh just rent it as a shop and use it as income okay so you personally aren't going to use it for your business you just want to get it to some mechanic yeah i actually have a buddy uh whose shop they raise the rates and he's looking at building some and he wanted to sign a contract with me for about five to ten year lease okay i wanted to get the rest of the story i don't think this is a good idea at all okay there's a bad idea They have multiple fronts.

1:35:04Dave Ramsey:Number one, I don't borrow money to do investing. Number two, I don't borrow money to do investing to take care of my buddy's problem. Number three, I don't build a shop on the back of my property that there's only one possible tenant for. That's right. If this guy goes sideways, gets in a car wreck, or gets his nose down in some cocaine, you now have an empty shop with a bunch of crap in it on the back of your property that you can't rent. And guess what? but life happens and it sounds a lot like that stuff. So, no, no, I'll pass on the whole thing. Even if I had 100K cash, I'd pass on this one.

1:35:43Dave Ramsey:Wow, Dave's a dream killer. No, Dave's a nightmare killer. I see nightmares where other people see dreams.

1:36:32Transcription by CastingWords connect with a Ramsey trusted insurance pro who will only get you what you need at the best price. Go to RamseySolutions.com slash insurance, RamseySolutions.com slash insurance.

1:37:00Dave Ramsey:If you're tired of living paycheck to paycheck and feeling like you can't get ahead, join one of our EveryDollar trainings. These are new trainings every week this month, and they're all hosted by one of the Ramsey personalities. We're going to show you how to stick to a budget and even find$9 ,000 of margin. That's the average. I mean, some people get more. Using every dollar so you can get out of debt, start building wealth. Plus, you can ask questions live during the live Q &A. Sign up for free at RamseySolutions.com slash webinar. Maria is with us in West Palm Beach, Florida. Hi, Maria. How are you?

1:37:36Hi, Dave. I'm good. How are you?

1:37:38Dave Ramsey:Better than I deserve. What's up? Yeah, so a little context. I'm married with two little kids, and I work in my dad's company on paper. I'm the CFO, but really I just handle the bookkeeping and admin work. I did inherit a small ownership share from my grandfather when he passed away. The business was doing$12 to$15 million during the COVID boom, but the sales have dropped back to pre-COVID levels, which is about$7 to$10 million. And over the last two years, we've lost about$1.5 million. and we're carrying a million dollars in debt. I'm personally taking a 50 % pay reduction to help with costs, but fortunately my husband got a raise and I started my own bookkeeping on business on the side and together that's replaced what I lost.

1:38:23So personally we're doing fine financially. The company feels like it's failing, but my dad won't take my advice or make the hard changes. I feel like I should focus on growing my own business because I'm afraid if the company fails, I'll lose the other half of my income too. At the same time, though, I feel guilty stepping back because this was supposed to be his retirement and so many family and friends work here. And with two little kids, my time is already stretched in. So my question is, do I step back and focus on building something I can control or keep pouring myself into the family business, even though it feels like it's a sinking ship?

1:39:00Dave Ramsey:Pre-COVID, it was making$7 million and making a profit? That's correct, yes. So why making$7 million post-COVID? Is it not making a profit? Advertising is one of the biggest expenses that we just seem to not be able to get control of. It's something that seems like it has changed drastically in the past two years. You're talking about paid media online? Yes. Yeah, it's gone through the roof. Yeah. And you guys have not adjusted your media sources and continue to spend like you. So he's spending money even though he knows he's losing money. That's correct, yes. Why? What does he say? It's worked for so long he doesn't see why it's not going to work now kind of thing.

1:39:45Dave Ramsey:Because it costs four times as much. That's why it doesn't work now. That's correct. I 100 % agree with you on that. Pretty simple thing. There's no ROI. Or as we say in that world, no ROAS. Mm-hmm. so um i mean i just had a conversation at ramsey this week about this i hate the freaking paid media yes it's a crack addiction because it works and it costs a lot and then they what do they do they come in they quadruple our costs since covet and so i'm getting out of the business i can't stand it pisses me off every time i write one of those checks to those people um so we're moving away from it as fast as we can finding other sources for our customers um but it yeah but no it the the landscape has changed so to act like it's always worked so it will always work is that's a ludicrous statement i mean if you were buying cars and reselling them and all of a sudden the cost of the car went up 4x you wouldn't say well it's always worked before that's a dumb butt statement.

1:40:53Yes, I full-heartedly agree with that.

1:40:55Dave Ramsey:Yeah. So how old are you? I'm 30. So your dad's 60. That's correct. Yeah. He started? Yes, he did. What kind of business is it? Outdoor teak furniture.

1:41:16Dave Ramsey:okay uh and your location doesn't have high traffic count so you are a destination site that's why you're buying your customers uh yes that's correct we're pretty much um fully online yeah yeah well the the needle is moved um our cheese got moved remember the old book Who moved my cheese? Spencer Johnson. Yeah, that's the one. And I'll be out scurrying around looking for my dadgum cheese. I'm going to ask a hypothetical here. What would Dad do if you quit today? How would he handle that? What would he do? He would not be okay with that. I do handle, I'm the only one in the company who handles pretty much all, anything admin.

1:42:06Right. And he's completely stepped away. In COVID time, he was planning for retirement, right? So he kind of stepped away a lot of his duties.

1:42:14Dave Ramsey:Right. Who's running the business? You? She is. Not necessarily. My uncle, I would say, he's doing all the sales and marketing. And we honestly just did a huge layoff. Have you had a really – so let me ask this. You've thrown some darts, but you've not dropped a grenade in the middle of this yet. No, but have you had the hard conversation with dad? No, not yet. Not yet, no. Okay, you got to do that, number one. So I think you sit down with your uncle and your dad and say, guys, we're going broke. And I do not intend to ride a horse until it dies. This horse is dying. So you guys have got to change directions here for this business to survive.

1:43:02Dave Ramsey:Otherwise, none of us are going to have a job. and I'm not going to ride the horse until it dies. So we need to come to some agreement about the spending here and the spending that's not working because other companies that are online have adjusted their media spend to become profitable and they adjusted their media spend down. Ours is down$20 million at Ramsey because they've been screwing us. and that's the same thing they're doing to you. And I can start naming these companies names, but some of them are broadcasting the show. So that's what it comes down to. So that's what you're dealing with are these platforms.

1:43:48Dave Ramsey:And so you and your dad and your uncle have to sit down and devise a business strategy in today's environment, not yesterday's environment, that is profitable and that we can all agree to. and boys if you're not going to do this you're going to be doing it on your own you don't have to be mean or threatening but it's just we are losing a million dollars we can't keep doing that that's not sustainable none of us are going to have a job i'm not going to sit here and watch this happen i love you both you uncle and dad and i'd like to stay here and fight with you but I have to believe in the strategy that we're using to fight this war.

1:44:30Dave Ramsey:And right now we're fighting what's known as a losing battle. Right. And stop it. And so I think you're going to have to have that conversation. And it's not threatening like don't want to fit, like I'm going to quit if y 'all don't behave. It's we have a business problem. You all aren't addressing it. And no one's going to continue to work here because no one's going to have the, you're not going to have the money to pay payroll. Right. we're going to go broke. I mean, you can't lose a million dollars a year, but for so long. Agreed? Agreed, yeah. And it's been two years. Yeah. This year's not looking good either.

1:45:06Exactly.

1:45:06Dave Ramsey:So wake up and smell the coffee, boys. Something's got to change. And the only thing I would add to what Dave said, he's spot on. I would add to them, just so it doesn't feel like a threat, because there's going to be an emotional reaction to this is what I gather, just this conversation. I would say, listen, if you guys don't agree with me and you want to move on without me, I got to move on. Here's one thing I'm going to do. I'm going to find my replacement. Because you're going to need somebody to do what you're doing, and I think you do need to address that. If you want me to help you find and train the replacement, I'm willing to do that.

1:45:38Dave Ramsey:I'm not mad at you. That's right. But I'm just seeing that I'm reading the tea leaves, and you all aren't even looking at the tea. And I'm the one sitting there looking at the numbers, boys. You can't lose a quarter of watermelon and get a bigger truck. It doesn't work. Right. That's pretty basic business stuff here. So, yeah, I'm sorry, hon. That's pretty standard stuff. But your dad is living in 2018 and 2019 emotionally, and he wishes he could go back there, and this is his wake-up call that he can't. I'm afraid old Dave has to face those things from time to time, too. It's getting old things a pain in the butt.

1:46:18Dave Ramsey:This is The Ramsey Show.

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1:47:28Dave Ramsey:in the lobby of ramsey solutions on the debt-free stage lowry and stephanie are with us hey guys how are you hey good how are you better than i deserve welcome where do you guys live we live in hayes north carolina okay welcome to nashville and what's hayes near it's about halfway in between Boone and Winston-Salem. Oh, beautiful area. Okay, very nice. And how much debt have you guys paid off? We've gotten a little over$700 ,000. I believe what,$710 ,000. Whoa, how long did this take? Eight years. Eight years. And your range of income during that time? Went from about$100 ,000 to$180 ,000. Okay, cool.

1:48:08Dave Ramsey:What do y 'all do for a living? I'm a nurse. For nurses. Both of you? Yeah. Okay, Wow. Very cool. So I'm guessing with eight years and 710, maybe you guys paid off the house. Yeah. Absolutely. Paid the house off. Whoa. Looking at weird people. Congratulations. So how old are you two? 44. Lauer will be 44 next week. All right. Very fun. And a paid for home. What's the home worth? It's about 250. Excellent. Very cool. So 250 ,000 of 710. Oh, nursing degrees. well we had a lot in there yeah yeah yeah how much how much of the 710 was the mortgage well the first mortgage we paid off was about 350 so in this process we um started in a house that was much too large for us and the mortgage was too big for us to pay so we paid that or sold Sold that house.

1:49:09Paid off lots of other things. We had our two other houses, too. Okay. And two and all.

1:49:14Dave Ramsey:My old house, her old house, all that stuff. And the one that was too expensive. And the one that was too expensive. And you sold all three? Yes. Yes. Whoa. So that's a lot of the 710. Correct. Okay. And now you're in a house you can afford. Yes. And is it paid for? Yes. Oh, wow. Okay. So it worked out. Yes. Once you decided to not play real estate monopoly. Correct. Okay. All right. I got you. Good deal. So tell me the story. What happened eight years ago? How long y 'all been married? 14 years. Okay, so six years into marriage. We got three houses and stuff we can't afford. Life's not fun. What happened?

1:49:49We had decided at the end of 2016 to find a financial peace class. Lowry had heard about you and heard about the class, and he said, I want you to find a class and I want to sign up. We were having just so many challenges, paycheck to paycheck, all the classic stuff. she's looking at me like, why haven't you paid this bill yet? Well, we get paid in a couple of days. I'll pay it then. You know, that kind of thing. So just week to week, the fights, the disagreements, that was getting pretty intense. And it was just a realization that something had to change. Yeah, something had to change. So we started Financial Peace in February of 2017.

1:50:33And it took us about three weeks into the class for us to just look at one another and say, how can the two of us be so educated and so stupid?

1:50:47That's funny. Yeah. What's funnier is Lowry's face because she just laid it out there and he was kind of like, yeah. Yeah, we were. We became gazelle intense. We sold everything that we could possibly sell. We sold two rental homes, a truck, a camper. we paid off student loans we paid off probably credit cards seven credit cards we how much student loan debt was there about 60 000 no that wasn't it then okay credit cards how many credit card how much credit card debt was there probably closer 40 40 yeah okay so it was really just you

1:51:23Dave Ramsey:all were disorganized and you're normal you had normal debts normal normal credit card debt normal student loan debt bought a couple rental houses or kept them instead of selling them bought a house you couldn't afford and so you're just asleep at the wheel and you look up and go okay we're going to try driving now yeah and all of a sudden the fights turn into celebrations as everything starts selling correct yeah so we were consumer debt free by the end of 2018 one year yeah almost two years because february of 17th when we started so december of 18 consumer debt was handled um the excess mortgages were gone um we just had our primary house did you decide in the initial swath to sell it or did seller was selling at the second stage um that was probably about seven months into the process where we were like yeah this is also a problem yeah when we're looking at the numbers and we realized we were well over 25 % and we were feeling it still.

1:52:27And it was just time-wise, it just made no sense whatsoever. Yeah.

1:52:33Dave Ramsey:My dad used to say, recognizing there is a problem is 90 % of solving it. And so that day when you came home and looked at her and said, I'm going to find a financial peace class, I'm done, I'm over this, I've had it. And she's like, finally. and then we go to class and you instantaneously got aligned didn't you yes that's pretty amazing we were i was confused on the way to class we we only have like maybe a 10 minute drive to class and the first time that we drove he on the way he was like i think they're going to tell us that we need to cut our credit cards up and i said why on earth would they tell us that why would we do that and then we got a couple of classes in and i was like oh oh i understand this now yeah yeah so but i mean you guys got aligned within three or four weeks five weeks yes and for the first time really in six or seven years absolutely and then once you got aligned it was like boom yeah execute execute execute execute i mean because you guys are used to coming up with a treatment plan as nurses and then follow the treatment plan the patient gets well most of the time hello yeah and And so you use your same training, but just use the way your brains work, but in a different setting, in a different compartment and department.

1:53:47Yeah, I have a follow-up to what Dave just pointed out and asked. So once you got on the same page about what you needed to do, the baby steps, did the tension, even though you were still in the debt, did the tension that was causing the fights, did that subside? Absolutely. See, that's a key point I want couples to hear. Tell us why you think that happens. I think that the tension that we had between one another, we focused on the problem. We put intention on the problem and started focusing on that instead of what he and I were doing wrong. Two, we developed a plan together. We were able to actually work together towards that specific goal.

1:54:27So good. And that expanded to everything else from how we raised the kids to whatever. Okay, I just want to make sure. I just got this thought. But you took it to intention, and that relieved all of the tension because it was just now we have a way out. You didn't have a way out before. That's great. I just hope couples hear that. That's why this plan works so well.

1:54:47Dave Ramsey:And it's why so many times over the years, people in the past would come up and they go, you saved our marriage. I'm like, you went to the wrong class. The sex class was down the hall. I mean, they're like, no, this is, you know, we've been going to marriage counselors and couldn't figure out how to be together. That's right. And all of a sudden, when you have a common goal and the enemy is outside the house, the villain is no longer inside the house. It changes everything. And once you learn to fight together, like you said, towards a goal, then that applies to everything else, like raising kids.

1:55:19Dave Ramsey:It applies to every other department, compartment in your life. Yeah. So way to go, y 'all. I'm so proud of you. Thanks. Who was cheering you on? Well, in the beginning, I'll just say there was a lot of people that thought we were crazy. Yeah. Yeah, we mostly had help from people who took FPU with us and the coordinators in that class. What church was that? Triad Baptist in Kernersville, North Carolina. Okay. Thanks, guys, for teaching that class. Within the last three years, we have been able to host financial peace at our church. Oh, wow. And we've amassed a good, close group of friends who have been very supportive.

1:55:59Dave Ramsey:Very good. What church is that? Fair Plains Baptist in North Wilkes-Barre, North Carolina. Wonderful. All right, bring the kiddos up to do the debt-free scream. Tell us their ages and names. Okay, this is Lawson, and he's 13. And this is Selma, and she's 11. And they survived this. Selma has never known life without Dave. We used to drive around in the car together and listen to your show in debt-free scream. Is this going to be a Dave-free scream here? Selma, I'm so sorry. Oh, boy. All right, Lowry, Stephanie Lawson, and Selma, North Carolina. $710 ,000 paid off. What a wonderful story. Eight years, making$100 to$180.

1:56:38Dave Ramsey:Sold everything in sight. Got their lives back. Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream. All right, three, two, one. We're debt-free! Yeah!

1:56:52Dave Ramsey:What a cool couple. That's fun. and what about you yeah i'm talking to you what about you

1:57:33Dave Ramsey:Our scripture of the day is 1 Peter 4.10. Each of you should use whatever gift you have received to serve others as faithful stewards of God's grace in its various forms. Henry Ford said, a business that makes nothing but money is a poor business. Oh, I agree. Folks, if anyone in your life depends on your income, you need life insurance, and we only recommend term life insurance. Life insurance has one job. Replace your income if you die. We never recommend any kind of investment insurance, like whole life or permanent life. It tries to do two jobs at once, and it does a bad job at both. You only need life insurance while someone depends on you financially.

1:58:16Dave Ramsey:So if you're like most people, you need a policy worth 10 to 12 times your annual income for 15 to 20-year level term insurance. For more info and resources, use our term life insurance guide. Go to RamseySolutions.com slash Term Life Guide or click the link in the description if you're listening on YouTube or podcast or just go to ZanderInsurance.com. Amelia is with us in Charlotte, North Carolina. Lina, hi, Amelia. How are you? Hi, I'm doing well. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? I have a question on budgeting priority whenever you are in a long-term rainy day period. A little bit of background.

1:59:03We purchased a house. We saved quite a bit of money up. We saved a total of$65 ,000 before we purchased our house back in February of last year. and we purchased the house and unfortunately um we purchased it and the previous owner had completed renovations that did not meet code and caused immediate concerns to the house that we have now subsequently been fixing and are also being held to bring the house up to code because of the stuff that they they did unfortunately um and did you have a home inspection we did and unfortunately so we have gone through we are in a lawsuit right now the whole inspection and with the former owner the former owner fun fact the former owner was also the real estate agent and they're a flipping company and they um are very i mean they're terrible people who are acting as general contractors and as a business and um are just they're continuing We need to do it to 14 other houses.

2:00:07Okay, so how much money is this costing you out of pocket to fix this house up? So far, we have spent$86 ,856, and we have to go to complete everything. I've got estimates, and we're fully working our way. The total amount at the very end will be$154 ,960. What's this house worth? $375 is what we purchased it for. We negotiated. It's saying right now that it's worth$410.

2:00:37Dave Ramsey:As is? As is. We can't sell it right now with its open permit, but if I were to sell it today, the bathroom's kind of gutted. So if I were to sell it today, we would probably get maybe$380. Yeah. What's wrong with just selling it today? You can sell it with an open permit, by the way. It's just a cash sale. You can't get a permanent mortgage on it. But an investor could buy it. If you could get somebody to give you what you've got in it, get out. Get away from this thing. And then we would lose the, well, that's true. So we would just lose the money that we put it for the down payment and what we're currently at and what we've currently invested to try to bring that.

2:01:18Dave Ramsey:No, you said you paid$3.75 and you get$3.80. Yes. So the down payment would be coming back to you. The down payment would be coming back to you. You don't lose that. But you would lose any additional money you put into it since you bought it. which so far is$80 ,000? $86 ,000, yes. And then you've got to put another$150 ,000 in it. So you're going to be upside down in this thing. I'm sorry, another$72 ,000. So$72 ,000 is a total of$150 ,000. So it's a total of, correct. All right, so let me see,$380 ,000. So you're going to have$525 ,000 in a house when you're done that's worth what when you're done?

2:02:06Dave Ramsey:$475.

2:02:10Probably when we're done with everything because we're upgrading. Since we have to have got some stuff, we're upgrading a little bit to add some more value. Like, for example, we're adding a bathroom. So if we were to sell it with all the upgrades done, we could probably get around$450.

2:02:24Dave Ramsey:Yeah, so you're going to lose your butt. So you're going to be$75 ,000 in the hole when you're done with this plan. Why is this a good plan? The only reason we're kind of sticking with it It was our lawyer with the lawsuit that we're going, and we're suing them. I think, unfortunately, we're kind of a lie. Yeah, but the question is, are you going to get anything? Even if you win the lawsuit, they're broke, probably. I hope not. Oh, they are. They're broke. Yeah. The good thing is, we do have a guilty verdict already has been determined by the state fire marshal for the home inspector. So they have been found guilty for missing all of the lawsuits.

2:03:00Okay, so are they writing a check? we're not sure yet the lawsuit is an umbrella they're suing both the previous owner the real estate company and the home inspector so we're the law the lawyer is saying we need 150 000 or 154 000 i don't care who pays what but that's what the number is we need that's what we need and then let the three people that we're suing figure out so the light the home inspector had state farm insurance yeah um maybe i think so yes that's weird okay all right and and that they've already agreed to settle at least part of it they have not agreed to what amount but they have agreed that they have admitted a yes there's an admission of guilt okay so they're gonna they're gonna write a check of some kind all right exactly all right so you're gonna get some of this so you're probably

2:03:57Dave Ramsey:going to break even when all this is done, is what you're saying. That's what we're trying and we're pushing for, yes. And how long has this saga been going on? Since February of last year. Yeah, probably another year and a half. Yeah, okay. In the meantime, we've been, for debt-wise, I think that I'm trying to figure out budgeting. I think you're in the middle of a hurricane. I don't think you're getting out of debt while you're in the middle of a hurricane.

2:04:25Thankfully, there's not much. Yeah, I think you've got one problem right now, and it's a big enough one that's taking on everything.

2:04:32Dave Ramsey:I think just your baby steps and all that stuff's on hold until you get these lawsuits settled and get some checks in, get the stinking renovation done, and then you get on with your life. And then, yeah. Did the new information she gave you change your mind on putting it up for sale and see if they can get a cash buyer on it? Yeah, I think they're probably going to wait and get the settlement out of it because it sounds like they're going to probably get their$150. Yeah. It sounds like this lawyer is probably doing a pretty decent job. But I really, honestly, if State Farm is writing a check for the building inspector, you're probably going to get that money.

2:05:04Dave Ramsey:The money you're hoping to get from the flipper, you're probably getting nothing because that flipper is probably broke. Most flippers are broke. And so I just, I'll bet you they got no cash and I'll bet you you're going to get nothing out of them. Which is probably why they sold it. Because they cheaped out on all the repairs and then they flipped it instead of doing them properly. Yeah. And so it's an unscrupulous flipper. And so that's that's what she's describing anyway. So, yeah, I think she's you know, you may get most of your 150 and at least enough of it that you're not going to be upside down in the house by the time the smoke clears on this, so to speak.

2:05:43Dave Ramsey:Wow. And this is trying to think how to avoid this for somebody else listening. um well if the judgment against the flipper holds if it goes through would even if they have no cash would a judge uh award them an asset put liens on their other stuff right but that still doesn't mean you're gonna get anything exactly okay that's what i was trying to figure out people can't pay right it's a you can sue them and it doesn't make them have money they're still broke people right and so that that's um this misnomer that if i sue somebody i'm gonna get money not necessarily They may be broke. I mean, I've got judgment liens against people.

2:06:18Dave Ramsey:I'll never see the money. They didn't pay their bill, and they're never going to pay their bill, and they don't have any money. It's not – it's no sense sitting up at night going, oh, but I have a lawsuit. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter at all. The only people that really make money on lawsuits are lawyers. They're the only ones. So, gosh, what a pain in the butt. I'm so sorry, Amelia. Sorry you're going through that. But I guess the way you avoid this in the future, folks, is you have a little more confidence in the real estate agents you're working with and with the quality of the home inspector.

2:06:50Dave Ramsey:Yeah. Obviously, this home inspector was inept. I was thinking through that. I'd become friends with a general contractor. Yeah. Because that's somebody you can theoretically trust and say, hey, would you walk through it? Yeah. Pay them. By the time she's finished with this, she'd be a general contractor. That puts us out with the Ramsey Show and the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

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