You’re One Hard Decision Away From Financial Peace

21:54as you're listening or watching today's show do us a quick favor hit the like button hit the subscribe button hit the share button wherever you're at it's a small token of appreciation that helps us spread the word about this show and you guys are the best marketing plan we could ask for. Appreciate you guys doing that. Libby is in Seattle, Washington up next. Libby, welcome to the show.

22:15Dr. John Delony:Hi, thanks for taking my call. Sure. How can we help? My question is, I am in Baby Step 6, but I do not own my home in Seattle. I rent. I do have a rental property in Texas, and I'm getting a divorce. I have enough money to pay off the rental in Texas that's currently using my VA entitlement. Should I go ahead and do that before I buy a primary residence? What's going on with this divorce? Do you know the financials yet? Oh yeah, it's generally amicable. We're generally splitting things 50-50. Okay, so what will you get out of this divorce as far as assets numbers wise? So we decided to liquidate our money market accounts, not retirement accounts.

23:03Dr. John Delony:So I'll have about$180 ,000 available to me. I could use it for a down payment on my own home, or I could use it to pay off this rental. Got it. What's left on the rental? I have income, about$160 ,000. Okay. And do you have any other debt? No. Just the rental. Okay. And what is your payment on the rental every month? I'm going backwards. So I pay$27 ,000, but the rental income is only$2 ,200. Cool, cool, cool. Why not just sell the rental?

23:36Dr. John Delony:It's sentimental reasons. I bought it with some inheritance money from my father who passed away who wanted it to be used for a rental. I could do that, but I'm not quite ready to let go of it in that way yet. A stranger's living there and is robbing you of$500 every single month for the pleasure. Correct? I haven't looked at it that way. Yeah, okay. So imagine yourself sitting at a Denny's at 6.30 in the morning with your dad having coffee. If he knew you were getting divorced, knew you were heartbroken, knew you were about to be homeless in Seattle, would he say, no, no, no, no, honey. I wanted it just for this.

24:19Or he say, baby girl, I want you to have a home. Go get a house.

24:25You're talking to two dads of two daughters. I can guarantee what both of us would say. If your tenant has more stability than you, the landlord, you got it backwards. So I would much prefer you find some stability in a very chaotic time. And if you want to get back into the rental game sometime, you can. But right now, I feel like we need to build some foundation and build our own financial future. Even if this rental was cash flowing, I still might go, hey, do you really want the rental? It feels like you kind of fell into it. And I understand that it's sentimental. I'm not trying to take away from that or diminish it.

25:01But right now, you need a place to live. And how cool would it be to be able to pay cash for a place? What could you sell this rental for?

25:09Dr. John Delony:I could probably sell it for$315, but in Seattle, that will not go far. And if I did pay off the rental, I would have$2 ,200 a month in income coming in that I could then add and make a house payment on. Yeah, but if you had$315 plus the$160 you're about to have, you can buy a house for$450, for$450 ,000. Right, but it would only be$315. Minus your mortgage. 160. Oh, okay. Some fees. So let's say you walk away from the rental with 130 plus the 180 you're getting. Is that fair? Right. Yep. Okay. So that gives you, you're back at 310 in cash, and could you use that as a down payment on a place nearby?

25:52Yeah, for sure. And I promise you this. Here's what your dad was telling you. I want my baby girl to be okay.

25:59Dr. John Delony:Hmm. And as you know, all of us dads think we know what's best for our kid. and we give them all of these things that we want to be just the way we want them to be in their life, and then we pass away, we move on, life happens. And so you have to ask underneath that gift, what was your dad trying to tell you? I want my baby girl to be okay. Okay. Not, I want you to be a landlord with 6 ,000 miles between you and this property. I want you to lose money every month. I want you to because of my generosity to you I want you to lose $6 ,000 a year not to mention any repairs and I want you to have to pay a company to go in there and do basic things because you live so far away and I want you to consider every month you don't have a place to live.

26:51That's not what your dad meant.

26:54Dr. John Delony:No. I'm not really ready to buy though. Okay then don't. Then have$300 ,000 in a Hylos Saves account. And then you make the$500 a month instead of letting your renter beat you$500 a month.

27:10You would make over$1 ,000 passively from that savings account, literally passively, not like it's passive income, bro. Just if you parked it in a high-yield savings right now with the current rates, you'd be looking at about$12 ,000 a year instead of losing$6 ,000 a year at minimum, which is the current status. So I'm totally fine. You went through a divorce. Let's just breathe, go rent somewhere, sign a six or 12 month lease, and then begin the home shopping process later on down the road, when you've got, and keep stacking cash on top of that, because you'll be completely debt free. And what's your current income?

27:44Dr. John Delony:I make about 140 a year. Amazing. So this extra two grand that you maybe could have gotten if you paid it off, I don't think the juice is worth the squeeze. You're the secret sauce here. You are very talented, very skilled, you make great money, and making 140 with no debt and no tenant, you're going to be able to stack up some cash, won't you? Yeah, yeah, that's definitely true. So think about that. You're going to gain$12 ,000 in the savings account in the next 12 months if you just park the money, if you sell it. Plus, how much could you stack every month from your income? Oh, definitely a couple thousand.

28:19Say$3 ,000? $4 ,000?

28:21Dr. John Delony:Mm-hmm. Probably$3 ,000. Okay. That's another$36 ,000 a year on top of that, on top of your$12 ,000. So basically you're going to have$360 ,000 to put for a down payment, which is incredible, 12 months from now, while you rent and get some foundation underneath you. I like that plan. That feels a lot more freeing to me than being a landlord at this stage of my life. Are you still in service? Are you getting out? No, I am a veteran. It's using my VA entitlement actually right now, the rental. I want to be able to use it again. And then my spouse is still active, and my ex-spouse is still active.

28:59Dr. John Delony:I'm used to being a long-distance landlord. I've done it for years. I know, but that means you're also used to not sleeping a full night all the way through, too.

29:10I'm just telling you. I have a nine-year-old little girl. And I know you're not a little girl. You're a grown woman. You're a veteran. You're a gangster. I know that. You're very smart. But I don't care how old I get, how old she gets. I'm going to want my daughter to be okay. and beneath okay means in my world is in the 21st century i'm gonna solve for peace i'm not gonna solve for maximum roi on every look around at our culture man everybody's burned to the ground i want my daughter to when she walks in whatever home she lives in to walk in with a smile on her face and her shoulders drop not okay i gotta check my email to see what the tenants did did the check clear do i have this okay minus 500 i don't want that life for her do i want my daughter to have a bunch of real estate.

29:53If that's what she wants, that'd be awesome. And I guarantee you, your old man would be sitting there smiling at the woman you've become, right? Thank you. Appreciate that. Is that true? Yeah.

30:08Dr. John Delony:Yeah, he definitely would be. Of course he would. He'd be like, you make what? And you'd be like, that's right, dad. That'd be awesome. And then he'd be like, you're losing 500 bucks a month. And you'd be like, sorry, man. Right? That's exactly what he would say. Mm-hmm. So you can hang on to it, man. If you were my daughter, you were my sister, you were my mom, I would tell you, put that house on the block today. Call a realtor in Texas and sell that thing, have it sold by the end of the summer, and have$300 ,000 in a high-yield savings account, just making free money for yourself for a minute while you figure out life after marriage.

30:42You're going to feel invincible. Dude, you're going to sleep for the first time in ages.

30:48Dr. John Delony:Mm-hmm. with no meds. That was really helpful, actually. Thank you. Does that make sense? We did a good deed today, John. We were helpful. Nothing else. We got to help Libby, and it was an honor. I'm proud of you, dude. And thank you for your service, Libby. You're amazing. You're awesome. Those sentimental gifts are hard to navigate, whether it's a home, whether it's a guitar, whatever it is, and I always want to get underneath that. What was the sentiment behind that gift? Yeah, because it's not the asset itself. It's the person and their character and the memories we created with them, but it's not the box that is somehow strings attached to that.

31:24up there.

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33:52But hurry, sale ends on Sunday, so knock it out before the weekend. Maybe get some gifts for some people in your life that you want to help out. Christina is up next in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania. Welcome to The Ramsey Show, Christina.

34:05Dr. John Delony:Hi, thanks for taking my call. Sure. What's going on? So dealing with some of those emergencies, it's actually a medical thing that came up for my daughter. And so I'm trying to figure things out with my husband. If we should use all of our emergency fund, if we should take out a home equity loan, or if there's a better way. We're just not figuring out right now. And I'm sorry, I'm emotional. That's okay. What happened to your baby girl? Well, she's 13, and we just found out a couple of months ago that she has scoliosis, and she needs surgery. Okay. So we were walking through things trying to avoid surgery, see if there was something they could do.

34:52Dr. John Delony:But it's progressive, and that's just the nature of the disease. And she's skeletally immature, so she's got a lot of growth left. And that's when they have the rapid growth is when the scoliosis gets worse. Her curve is already at like, I think we just met with a surgeon on Monday, and I think they measured it at 80 degrees, if I'm not mistaken. She has an S curve. The top one is the one that's really concerning. She's at 80 degrees? The top curve is either 80 or 90. I think it's 80, and the bottom, hers is around 40. It's her, yeah, so her, when we were trying to do things to avoid surgery, the exercises and things, we went to an alternative medicine.

35:43Dr. John Delony:So they were doing physical therapy, chiropractic, different things. Her bottom rib cage started sticking out more, and so we're just really concerned. We don't feel like it's something where we can wait and stack up cash. Yeah, how soon does this surgery need to happen, according to the surgeon? Two surgeons both said this fall. Okay. September, October, that's what they're saying. So after your health insurance covers what it's going to cover, are you talking about being out of pocket here? So the insurance, as far as I can tell, because we've been paying for testing and things we have to do, MRIs and stuff, The insurance will cover the hospital.

36:31Dr. John Delony:This is something with the surgeon and this particular surgeon that we found because we don't want to cut through her back and everything. We'd rather spare her back muscles. So we found this surgery called anterior scoliosis correction. The surgeon, because the medical industry is a mess, says, well, we're going to, this is how we operate. if you pay this deposit, this is all you will pay out of pocket. We will bill your insurance, and then if the insurance doesn't cover what the surgeons are requesting, it's fine. We don't pay any more to the surgeons. So you just pay this deposit no matter what?

37:13Dr. John Delony:Yes. Okay, so that's the number now. If we're focusing on just the facts here, what is that number? $50 ,000. That's quite the deposit. And how much do you have in your emergency fund? Um,$20 ,000. Christine, I'm going to be honest with you. I'm not an expert here, but this is not passing my smell test. Okay. Well, please tell me what, what is it? Well, it, have you sat down with another potential surgeon? Because here's the thing. This is going to, let's say you write a$50 ,000 check. And what I don't like about this is, is we don't have any idea what this surgery is going actually cost, up or down.

37:58And so if this ends up being a$30 ,000 procedure, then you're out. If it ends up being a million-dollar procedure, technically you might win, right?

38:09Dr. John Delony:I understand what you're saying. And their financial documents, it does say, if our insurance was to pay the full bill, then we would get money back from that deposit. it. But why are we doing this on the back end? Let's contact insurance and find out what surgery they will cover and where ahead of time. Okay. Well, I'm like, I can, I can ask that I'm maybe I'm being too particular, but no, you're not being too particular. I want the best for my daughter. I want the best for my daughter. So I don't want to do a spinal fusion surgery. I'm pretty confident they would do that, but that's where they cut through the back at like a foot and a half and they put in a metal rod.

38:49Dr. John Delony:and that's not the surgery that you want. But I'm saying for the particular surgery you want, are there other surgeons in the general area who can do that but through your insurance on the front end? You're right. I haven't looked at that. So that's what would be my next fight is talking with insurance, figuring out what they will cover. Will they cover this exact surgery? Okay, where is in network that they will cover? Then we know the exact number and it's likely going to be way less than$50 ,000 out-of-pocket because you have an out-of-pocket maximum And likely, I don't know your exact insurance, but they likely will cover 100 % beyond that.

39:22And the other part of this is, is the moment you walk out of any surgery, whether it's posterior, anterior, any surgery, especially in a child, you immediately go to rehab. And your insurance company, if the doctor says we have to do this follow-up care as an extension of this procedure, then they should cover that too. too and I'm worried about any kind of deal that I signed with a doctor I put a period at the end of it I've had this happen I looked at a I had to go to ER a couple years ago it was on Christmas Eve for crying out loud I did something totally dumb ended up in the ER and I said I will pay you right this second but I can never get another bill from you I said I want you to record this and they're like done you will never get a bill from us I got another big old bill from the doctor and they're like hospitals like no no you paid the hospital that wasn't about us we don't even and so my fear is some way somewhere along the line you're putting a period at the end of a sentence you're basically signing a contract but you don't know if you're going to get billed from the the doctors the parking lot attendants the physician's assistant like I just want to go in totally clear-eyed and here's where this is important you said this best and I want to applaud you you want to get the best for your daughter.

40:40And I don't know about you, but when I get to thinking about what's best for my daughter's care, I get a little bit worked up and a little bit like fight or flight. Like I got to do it right now. I got to solve it. And so what I need is I need somebody that I trust who will be an advocate for me that when I'm like, I don't want this kind of surgery that would say, this is the kind of surgery that's right right now. Or I want to get this done right now. You can wait till November and dot, dot, dot, dot, dot. And so knowing that about yourself, is there a social worker or a medical advocate or somebody in your church who's a physician who could advocate with you and explain this to you so you're not just going down YouTube rabbit holes making yourself kind of bonkers you get what I'm saying and I'm just saying that that's what I do and I end up I don't I'm just terrified you're going to sign your name to a piece of paper that says you owe me 50 ,000 bucks then you're going to get a massive bill from the hospital then you're going to get another bill from the rehab center and this thing's going to crush all because medical um medical debt is what destroys more more families than anything else yeah and so it's just stepping back from the emergency of all of this and saying hold on before i sign a piece of paper i want to make sure i'm clear-eyed on yeah well and i know that's why

41:56Dr. John Delony:you know one thing that you guys always say is you know don't don't jump into things right away And so I've been trying to like. No, you're doing great. You're being just like all of us would be. I don't want, I don't, you know what I mean? And you better do it now. I would be living in a cloud, unable to think clearly. And so we're just trying to help you think of options that don't involve you out of desperation, taking a HELOC out on your home and just writing any check that they ask for. And so I would, number one, use your emergency fund. This is an emergency. It's what it's for. And so don't feel bad using it, but don't take out a line of credit.

42:29I'd rather you get a bill from the hospital and we figure out a payment plan on the back end, likely with no interest, versus taking out a HELOC with variable interest. So do not go into debt for this. Do all of the homework and research you can. And we're wishing you and that little girl the very best with her healing and recovery. This is The Ramsey Show.

43:29We'll be right back. 30-day money-back guarantee, so you can try it without feeling trapped. Go to boostmobile.com slash Ramsey to make the switch today. That's boostmobile.com slash Ramsey. Restrictions apply. See boostmobile.com slash Ramsey for details.

43:55from the ramsey network this is the ramsey show where we help people build wealth do work that they love and create amazing relationships i'm ramsey personality george camel here with best author Dr. John Deloney. We're taking your calls at 888-825-5225. You give us a call, we'll help you take the right next step for your money and your life. Mallory is in Salt Lake City up next. What's going on, Mallory?

44:21Dr. John Delony:Hey, I'm just calling in. So I'm having an issue with my husband not wanting to combine finances with me and also not disclosing his finances with me. How long have you been married? It's one year, exactly one year. And this has been happening since you guys have been dating or what? Or is this a new development? Since we've been dating. You know nothing about this guy when it comes to money. Correct. Like you don't know what he makes? Nope. Wow. I've asked. He gives me, he tells me it varies. And I say, okay, well, what does that mean? What did you make last month? He said, I don't know. probably the same as you.

45:05All right, there's no way this happens in a black hole. What are other areas in your marriage where you don't really know what's going on?

45:15Dr. John Delony:What do you mean?

45:19Like, this kind of person doesn't operate in a vacuum, meaning they're not a perfect upstanding ride-or-die husband, partner, spouse that's all in on building a future with you. And just this one thing, You can't know anything about my finances, how much I owe, how much I make, where I spend my money. You shut your mouth on that stuff. But everything else we're aligned on. Where are other places y 'all are not aligned? Or let me ask you a different way. Where are other areas where your gut just knows something's not right? I have caught him texting another girl before. Yep. But other than that.

45:55What do you mean other than that? That's like the whole thing when you get married. Right. Is you are the person. Right. So here's the truth. I know a lot of people who just are not comfortable for a variety of reasons with sharing a single checking account, right? I know that. And I know what I think about it. I know what me and my wife do. I know what George and Whitney do. But I get that, hey, I was married to somebody and they took everything. Or my father was financially abusive and I feel unsafe. I get that. Okay. But if he's not also showing, here's my bank account. Here's all my checking account.

46:33It's not about secrecy. It's about safety. You have a much bigger issue on your hands. You have a person who's deceiving you. And in this situation, it's very rare for somebody to act like that who doesn't have somebody on the side or is not struggling with some sort of substance abuse or gambling challenges. Okay. It's not 100%. You may go through his checking account and realize, oh, he's kind of a great guy. He's just perfect. He just is weird about this. I would be willing to bet that's not the case

47:04Dr. John Delony:okay do you have the passcodes to his social media too? no do you have the passcodes to his phone? can you just pick up his phone and read his text whenever you want? no okay then you do not have a marriage okay do you get that? and you know that too right? I know it's a harsh way for me to say that but you know that intuitively like in your chest right? Right.

47:29Dr. John Delony:It seems like, you know, I mean, he is, I live with him. We have a child together. You know. I mean, that happens all the time without two people wanting to build a life together. I want to build a life is what I'm getting at. And behavior is a language, and he's being very clear with you. I do not want to build a life with you. He claims he does, though. But behavior is a language. right but he wants to buy a home together of course he does you're gonna pay for it he can do whatever he wants he can see other people he can spend money however he wants he can do whatever he wants how does he want to buy a house with you how do the finances work right now just out of a dark curiosity because i don't think i'm gonna like we're in a rental home and we split the rent 50 50 we split utilities 50 50 and we split our child's daycare 50 50 so we kind of operate as roommates financially so there's no joint account you just send him the money and he pays all the bills no like we venmo the landlord um and then his credit card is linked to the daycare mine's linked to the daycare like everything is done separately we just pay our own half okay you hear this as you're saying it right What did you say?

48:51I want you just to absorb what you're saying. What you just described is how I lived with every roommate I've ever had. Yeah. The four dudes I lived with in college, this is how we did it, minus a kid. I guess I'm looking for the love in all of this. Other than him getting you pregnant.

49:08Dr. John Delony:I've had this conversation with him a million times where I'm like, hey, we're operating as roommates. I actually had a financial advisor booked for us today. the financial and we already did the consultation last week went well my husband agreed to move on to like the second step which was meeting with him today and then all of a sudden this morning he backed out I know but you're not hearing what I'm saying okay behavior is a language I don't care what words are coming out of his mouth I can tell George all day long I'm your best friend man I'm your best friend and then I'm punching him in the mouth and I'm keying his car.

49:48And that was two hours ago. That was two hours ago, literally. That's right. My actions would show him what I really think about him. And so it doesn't matter what words are coming out of his mouth. He's been saying words to you for years. That's how he got you in bed. That's how he got you to move in with him. That's how he got you to the courthouse, right? But his actions, and you want this to work so bad and I'm heartbroken with you on this. I get it. Did you guys have the child before you were married?

50:19Dr. John Delony:He got me pregnant like two months before we officially got married. Okay, so you were engaged at the time? Yes. Okay. I was just wondering what caused him to propose and even move forward with this commitment if he really wasn't wanting any? That's a good question that I think about a lot. I do think potentially he's hiding debt, and maybe he thought I could be a financial asset to him. Correct. Correct. You'll take care of his kid. You'll pay half his rent. The collection's in the trash can as well with his name on it the other day. I'm getting butterflies in my heart just hearing this love story.

51:00He thought I'd be a good financial asset. Hey, do me a favor. Pull your credit report, okay? make sure he's not taking debt out in your name correct and I would freeze it if I were you and here's why because you're married now and he has access to your social security number he can take out debt on anything and you won't know because it wouldn't occur to you to do that to somebody else but you're dealing with a person who's untrustworthy

51:35Dr. John Delony:right You know what I mean? He filed our taxes jointly with his CPA, and I've been contacting them daily, and they still don't have an update. And it's like, what, halfway through the year? What do you mean an update? You're asking for your tax return, a copy of it. They won't give it to you? Exactly. They won't, no. Are you confident that he filed your taxes? Whenever I talk to their receptionist, he reassures me that they have. Okay, just so you know, George and I got our taxes done at the same place this year, and we walked out with our return. And I walked out with my spouse, who was there the whole time.

52:14Yeah. And our returns are pretty complicated, but we walked out with them. Mallory, I'm so sorry you're dealing with this. I can't make the decision for you on what to do next, but I can tell you this is bad. It's not a healthy marriage, is what we're telling you.

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54:21Melissa's up next in Richmond, Virginia. Welcome to The Ramsey Show, Melissa. What's going on with you today?

54:27Dr. John Delony:Thanks for taking my call. I'm hoping to get some guidance, I guess, because I'm currently in$2.3 million in debt, and I don't even know where to start to try picking up the pieces and moving forward. Who gave you$2 million in debt? Did you buy a spaceship? I wish. No. It's actually a combination of business debt from a business that we had to close medical debt. we actually had two medical emergencies happen within days of each other the biggest one being my youngest had an accident and was lifelighted to another hospital with multiple surgeries hospital stays and she actually just had another surgery last week and then we found out that because of everything else that was going before that I missed filling out some paperwork and And we lost our health insurance.

55:27Dr. John Delony:My husband's a combat disabled veteran, so we had Champ VA. And they've denied all the bills, even though we've gotten all of that taken care of and we're back on there. But they aren't paying for anything that happened when it was cut off. You had a gap in coverage, and then life crap hit the fan. And now you're on the hook for how much total in medical debt? Her medical debt is, I haven't gotten any of the stuff on this surgery. but thankfully insurance covered the majority of it. Probably about$400 ,000 for just her stuff. How much is the business debt out of the 2.3? Probably about$2 million.

56:12Dr. John Delony:No, not even. $1.8 plus about$100 ,000, so about$1.9 million. What kind of business was this? I had a family entertainment center, but we had actually signed a 10-year lease about two years ago. And then within weeks of that, we actually had a house fire. So I was trying to run the original business to get the new location ready because we were going to expand. There was so many delays and financial stuff that just kept going. So the business is kaput? What happened in the entertainment center? At the same time that all of the medical stuff happened, my landlord decided not to renew my lease, and we had to close pretty much abruptly.

57:05What did you use the$2 million on?

57:10Dr. John Delony:um well a lot of it is the uh the location that we had signed our lease on wants their money but you said they kicked you out are you talking about your personal residence kicked you out no so we actually had an existing location and then we actually signed a lease on a new location and it was going to be larger we were expanding and um that landlord when i told him hey we're We're not moving forward with this. They've sent the paperwork through their attorney. They want their money. For 10 years of a lease agreement? Yes. How much was that? $1.8 million. And you didn't find it? Plus attorney fees.

57:58Do you have your own attorney?

58:28Dr. John Delony:six things either. Well, I would sell everything we can. I don't know how much there is to sell, and I assume you guys have zero dollars to your name right now. Is that correct? Zero dollars to our name, and at this point we have nothing really to sell. We had the house fire. We lost 90 % of our belongings. I'm still dealing with insurance. Do you not have homeowners insurance that covered the contents? I'm still doing the content claim with insurance. The process that they're having me do is almost the equivalent of three full-time jobs with how detailed of a list they want. They want me to list literally every item I'm claiming, when I bought it, where I bought it, how much it was worth.

59:12And what's your husband doing right now?

59:16Dr. John Delony:Currently, I think he's dealing with my daughter. Are you guys working full-time? No, my husband's disabled. He has physical diagnosis issues as well as brain injury. So he's 100 % total and permanent veteran. So is he on disability and getting paid? Yes. How much is that? Thankfully, that's the income we have. That's about$4 ,000 a month. Our mortgage is almost$2 ,000 a month. And are you bringing in any income right now? I do everything I can to bring in some money, like I do side hustles and stuff, but nothing concrete. I'm going to get paid every week or every other week kind of thing. I've tried working out of the home, but my husband can't care for our daughter's medical needs solely because with his brain injury, he forgets steps and things like that.

1:00:15Dr. John Delony:And so medication is dismissed and there's problems. So I've tried working like, hey, I can work from this time or this time, but I really wasn't getting these phone calls back. Divided up, and I don't know if your schedule with the, if your 10-year lease was a graduated one or if it was just like the same year over year. What was one year's worth? Like year one, what was that agreement worth? or was it just split evenly over 10 years? It split evenly over the 10 years. And you guys were paying$15 ,000 a month for this lease? Yes, as well as, I mean, the landlord had paid some money towards, you know, some remodel that needed to be done, but we were the ones paying, like doing the floor and everything like that.

1:01:10Dr. John Delony:And so we also dumped in a lot of personal money, business money to get this venture up. But you still have – so they broke the lease? I'm just confused why I don't just try to continue this business to at least bring in some income if you already have the lease agreement paid for 10 years. Oh, no, we haven't paid it. He wants the money. No, but why don't you move your business to this and keep your business running that was doing so good you thought about expanding it?

1:01:40Dr. John Delony:Honestly, my mental health, I don't think I can handle one more thing at this point. I'm barely hanging on. But you said you took out$2 million in loans. So where did that money go if it didn't go to the landlord? No, I didn't take the loan out for that. That's what we were guaranteed to pay. So$1.7 million of this$2 million is in a decade-long lease. So you're just on the hook to the landlord. It's not like you owe a loan. correct it's not like a small business loan so have you sat down and said look we have nothing yeah they're not going to get what is one year or six months worth and i will i will be on the hook for that and y 'all need to rent this out to somebody else because because here's the deal they can take whatever that i don't know what that number is divided by two they can take two hundred thousand dollars from you guys or they can get nothing because you're going to file bankruptcy and they're going to lose everything i think that's kind of where my attorney is at this point because every time he's brought up, you know, negotiations, they flat out are like, no.

1:02:47Well, here's the deal. I wouldn't worry about the business debt right now because it's kind of monopoly money. And the medical debt, I'm wondering if you can work with the VA to have a portion or all of this forgiven.

1:02:59Dr. John Delony:The VA, we've done the paperwork for them and they still, they keep declining those charges. We weren't covered at the time. I've made payment arrangements with the doctor's offices, the hospital, the flight, the life flight company. They won't negotiate or settle each month. Pardon? They won't negotiate or settle at this point? No. Well, the life flight company said that instead of paying like that's a hundred and something thousand dollars if i paid in one month some that they'll give me a discount and it's only 62 000 yay right this is gonna be a lot of fighting and i understand it's taking a toll on your mental health your family's been through a lot but you're gonna have to claw your way out of this one piece by one piece one day at a time and just take the right next step and hopefully your attorney can help you fight some of these battles so sorry melissa yeah i can't help you This one's too big.

1:03:59Sorry.

1:04:31If you're tired of living paycheck to paycheck, feeling like you can't get ahead, join one of our free EveryDollar trainings coming up this month, every single week. And they're hosted by one of us, Ramsey Personalities, myself included. We're going to show you how to stick to a budget, even find$9 ,000 of margin. That's right. Using EveryDollar so you can get out of debt and start building wealth. Plus, you can ask us any question during the live Q &A. Join us. Sign up for free at EveryDollar.com. slash webinar. Jennifer's up next in Birmingham, Alabama. What's going on, Jennifer?

1:05:04Dr. John Delony:Hey, thanks so much for taking my call. I really appreciate it. Sure. I guess the best way to start is just to jump right into it. I got a bit of interesting news from my husband this weekend, and he let me know that his parents need to do some big repairs on their house, and he doesn't think they're in the financial position to take care of it, and he wants us to come in and pay for these repairs. So a couple of things. Happy to help, but my biggest question was why can't they do it themselves? You know, they also have a grown son living with them as well, so two-income home, if you will, and that's their household, their responsibility.

1:05:51Dr. John Delony:So just questions I have. as it turns out you know he clearly knows more about this than i do and their grown son has had some issues with drugs and divorces all sorts of things they're kind of a mess so they have spent a massive amount of money and it sounds like they have sent themselves into oblivion trying to pull him back from the best and so now they're in this position that they're in um so to be fair they haven't asked for money, but they have in the past. So I'm just struggling with what to do. I want to be able to help them, but I'm having a hard time sweeping in and helping three grown adults who've got their car stuck in the mud, you know, with their own decisions.

1:06:40Dr. John Delony:And it's not the first time. As a Christian, as a believer, right, not the first time. Like, I feel like... How much did you give last time, and what was it for? Well, let me tell you, we had a tough conversation, and I said, I don't believe we should be buying their son a vehicle because of his drug use, and he wrecked three in the past year. And so as your wife, if you think we ought to, I will, you know, it's your call to make. So he took my advice, and he said no, and it was tough because the whole family got on the phone and derailed me for saying, how dare you? We need this. Whoa, whoa, whoa.

1:07:15He told them I would like to, but my wife said no? yeah oh boy yo this is not about your in-laws you've lost respect for your husband the fact

1:07:26Dr. John Delony:that even brought this back up yeah deal with that issue well that's the that because that's the issue on the table here there's a proxy war like like like yeah this this and you just said Well, it's his choice. Why is it his choice to make if it's y 'all's money? Right. Well, that's, you know, we don't have, we have a joint savings account, checking account. We deal with everything as a unit as a whole. But in this particular time, he said, hey, I have some extra money. I want to use my money. And I'm like, this is the first time you've said my money in our whole marriage. It's ours. Did you know about this extra money?

1:08:09Dr. John Delony:Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. Yeah. And he's so generous. He's so kind. He's not withholding anything. But in his mind, you know, baby brother, the guy who's got his life together and a wife and they're doing financially OK. And he, you know, he wants to swoop in and help them. And I just I feel like it's a bit manipulative from his parents. It's manipulative, manipulative all the way down the line. From brother to parents, parents to son and then him to you. using you as the scapegoat to go well i'd love to i'm a real generous guy you know me how dare any husband get on the phone with his family be like hey i would help you out my wife the drag here no husband does that that's not true husbands do that all over the place no self-respecting grown man does that they look at their own brother and even if like there's been choice decisions i've made and my wife has said i don't agree with this and my wife is generally wiser than me because I'm impulsive.

1:09:09And how dare me get on the phone to my family and be like, hey guys, I'd help out but you know her. No. I say, hey, I'm not going to write you this check. I mean, my family didn't ask for money, but you get what I'm saying. That's the issue here. And then he came back to you. Did brother wreck this car, by the way? Oh, no, no. I'm sorry. Y 'all said no. What did he end up doing to get a car?

1:09:31Dr. John Delony:We did say no. And then he got a car. How? Whatever means. I don't remember. It's been about five years ago, but surprise, surprise, you wrecked that car as well. Oh, yeah. So here's what I'm trying to prove to you, though. If you don't help them out, they're going to find another way, won't they? Yes, they are. In my opinion, I don't want to be cold-hearted, but you ought to. You're grown. Yeah, and it's up to them. Listen, if they want to go take out a HELOC to do all these repairs, that's their decision. but you don't have to be enabling this sorry about your living condition sorry they suck we're we're doing just fine and then the truth is we work really hard and have jobs that i don't particularly like but i have these are my goals do you have like savings for future home repairs knowing that eventually home home is going to need repair exactly exactly so let's like teach them how to make a budget if you want to give them some tools but i wouldn't just throw money at it because then you just become bank of jennifer and they come back six months from now when they have another problem well you gave it to a last time what's different about this time and i i want to reframe it i don't ever want to put myself in a position where and it's hard in this current cultural climate we have i do this so they should fill in the blank right i don't ever want to prop myself up with, I'm working a job that I hate, so I get this and you don't get, I don't want to live like that because the reality is my wife and my daughter can get hit by a car on the way home from the grocery store today and my whole life is different, right?

1:11:07But what I do want to say is this, I know that giving them money is not helping, period. It's not. And so So you can do what you want. You and your husband can do what you want. I live by two rules, and I've learned these the hard way. I don't step in to help unless I'm picking up groceries for somebody or tipping well or something like that. I don't rush in to save somebody that I'm in relationship with unless they ask me for it. And I don't give advice to people that don't ask anymore. And I've ruined friendships doing both of those things. and so right now your husband has created a world where he gets to be the savior for a problem he hasn't even been asked to solve yet that's true and so they're not asking him for this stuff he wants to swoop in and help and be like look look i'm still a good kid i'm still a

1:11:59Dr. John Delony:good kid i'm still a good kid oh he's feeling guilty yeah they're in misery apparently and he's doing okay but every single choice is everything they every place they are is a choice they have made and on top of that they have not asked for your opinion they haven't asked for y 'all's help and he doesn't realize it but he has a marriage issue right because your respect for him is draining out of that hourglass sand like a little grain of sand by little grain of sand right and i think he no i think so after three days we're like okay we need some counseling because this has brought up some big issues it has and i don't think he realized that he's trying to help and save and I'm like, this isn't a problem we created.

1:12:41Dr. John Delony:No, that's not it. The whole thing, listen to me, the whole thing's a proxy war. You passed the buck when you said, this is like in your chest, this is going to be a violation of our marriage, but you go ahead and make it if you want to. And then you held that against them. And he blamed you for it. Both of y 'all have created a dance here that neither of y 'all can win. And so you got to turn the lights on, and turn the music off of your marriage and y 'all get in the room and have to learn how to trust and respect each other because he thinks you're going to put it all on him. He don't want to make you mad, but he doesn't have the courage to stand up for himself and against his family.

1:13:21You see what I'm saying? It just creates this churn and then y 'all are talking about brother's addiction. You're talking about mom and dad's house. Y 'all have a marriage challenge y 'all need to deal with. Does that resonate?

1:13:33Dr. John Delony:Yeah, it sounds like we need to go to counseling now. as somebody who like a random podcaster that's what I would recommend that y 'all go talk to somebody because I think y 'all have some deeper challenges that y 'all need to work through and it's a much better use of money than putting out a fire that they're just gonna spark probably three weeks from now

1:14:29Today's question of the day is brought to you by Why Refi. You didn't plan to default on your private student loan, but now you could have a way out. Y-Refi helps you explore refinancing options with a low fixed rate and a payment plan based on your ability to pay. So take the next step at YRefi.com slash Ramsey. That's the letter Y, R-E-F-Y dot com slash Ramsey. May not be available in all states. Today's question comes from Taylor in West Virginia. Taylor writes, my boyfriend and I have been living in his mom's house. This is awesome. so we can save for a home of our own. We have similar incomes, no debt, and a child together.

1:15:08My boyfriend pays the mortgage and utility bills, and he regularly gives his mom cash. Our child expenses are my responsibility. Good God, can we just stop? Okay. Just, okay. This is like a made-up question to make John angry today. Our child expenses are my responsibility, and I buy all of the groceries. Recently, my boyfriend suggested that I help his mom financially as well and contribute to funding the renovations on her house. I feel like I'll lose all of my savings. No, that's not a feeling. That's a math problem. You will. And we'll stay in this house forever if I do this. You will not actually.

1:15:49You'll be asked to leave at some point. What should I do? Oh, boy. Is she really asking? I mean I don't know the quality of this relationship yes you're asking you 100 % I think I know the quality of this relationship uh listen you are in a weird pseudo marriage with two people his mom and the boyfriend and it feels like the mom is living in his house but he doesn't own it but he's paying all the bills and building her equity and funding all the renovations while she gets the best ride ever of having no bills to pay, not working at all. And so I think we need to - And he's not co-parenting. You're paying for everything when it comes to food and taking care of this child.

1:16:32I think we wouldn't need - I would lay all the cards on the table with everyone. Go, guys, this is messed up. This is not how it should be. We need to figure this out. If mom can't afford to live here, she needs to find somewhere she can afford to live and not have us fund her life while we somehow get a benefit. So here's the deal. I rarely say this, but Taylor, if you were my daughter or you were my sister or you were a close friend of mine, I would recommend that you go get an apartment and you take the child and you'll move into the apartment because you'll have a lot of work to do on your relationship with this guy that clearly has not left his mommy's house.

1:17:15And you've got a long way to go. Relationally, before, you've already made a kid together, so you all will be forever linked. But before you start getting any more tied in financially, legally, all that mess, I would get my own place, I would get an apartment, and I would start the repair process of this relationship because this is an absolute mess of a dumpster fire of a mess. Do not give his mom a dollar. Do not fund any renovations on a house you don't own. You need to protect your money at this point. Protect this baby. And if he then goes, I can't believe you don't want to give my mom money.

1:17:50This relationship's okay. Then you go. He just gave you the cue. Yeah. And so this is a real messy situation. You've done everything backwards. This is like on my do not recommend list. You've checked off every single box. Other than the no debt. I love that part. That's good news. Otherwise, I don't see much more good news in this. This is all bad news. But I recommend you get your own place. And if you want to continue in a romantic relationship with the father of your child, then you need to be very adamant about what you want in a marriage partner. and that includes putting you and the child over priority of home renovations for an existing parent or all this this is this whole thing's madness but um that's that would be what i recommended that you do so sorry you're dealing with that not fun all right am i out to lunch i feel like more and more and more and more and more one of two things is happening there's either it's this weird barbelling thing that's happening.

1:18:5830%, 25 to 30 % of the calls that come into my show are about relationships that have ended. Like parents have cut off kids because they vote the wrong way or they didn't, right? They're still mad about COVID or whatever. And, or the kids have cut off parents because they're so awful. They have different opinions or whatever. There's that side of the barbell. or just with increasing regularity, there are these kids that cannot and will not, and I'm calling them kids even though they're maybe 35 years old, they are just living as though they're in high school. They have full-time jobs. They're doing well.

1:19:39They're not doing great, but they're doing fine financially. But their parents are still guide, guarding, and directing their lives like marionette, like puppeteers, like you will pay for this. You will live here. You will stay here. Oh, you had a baby. Then the baby moves into my house and there's this inability to break free over here. So we have this like caustic dude, sit at a table with people who have different beliefs in you. My God almighty. So you can't, we're not, we're never going to see you again, family members. And then over here, it's yeah, honey, um, you're going to pay all the groceries and all the kid bills because I'm gonna just stay in my mommy's house and take care of her and it's this strange insanity on both ends and i i feel like it's more and more and more and more and i just don't think it ends well for all of us it's madness yeah we are seeing an uptick uh i've done six of these ramsay shows in a row and i've i've never seen so many more relationally broken calls that then touch money And as you know, and the reason we love having you here is money is rarely the actual issue.

1:20:48Right. It's all of these proxy wars and these unspoken commitments and people not pulling their weight and then other people going, well, I guess I'll enable their misbehavior. And that's really hard to untangle. I would much rather math problem of we want to pay off the debt. Tell us about the debt snowball. That's rarely the call we get anymore. Right. It's messy situations like this where they're going, I'm trying to build my own future. my wife is mad at me because I'm trying to fund my parents misbehavior and it's what happens is it ends up creating a generational cycle it does because these are the people there that that baby in that house is going to have to pick up the pieces right because the the dad was busy funding his mom's life so never built a life for himself never had retirement now that baby grows up and has to repeat this process right and I am a hundred percent all in if my dad were to pass away today and he had no health insurance and had no, I mean, had no life insurance, et cetera.

1:21:44I would a hundred percent be there to take care of my mom, but it would have to be, she would be a part of our, me and my wife's household. Not, I would not look at my wife and say, sorry, honey, I'm going to continue to fund my mom's lifestyle to the detriment of our children, to the detriment of our future, to prop up the life that she just happens to want. the world has shifted if in a situation like this so i don't know what happened to taylor's boyfriends mom's marriage or husband what who knows how we got where we got i'm all about taking care of your parents but you have to do it in a way that you can actually afford and yet it's it might be uncomfortable for millions of us yep there's a third bedroom and mom lives in there and it's not comfortable for her it's not comfortable for us but that's the world we have right now.

1:22:36But this whole, you take care of the kid expenses, that's your job. I'll just pay all of my mom's mortgage and utility bills. It's madness. And I love how you call that out. It becomes generational. And so on the Ramsey show, we talk all the time about change your family tree. That is about money, but it's so much more than money. It's the way we talk to each other. It's the way we treat people. It's the way we serve and love each other. And you can't serve and love somebody if you are burning your house down in the process. It's madness on every end of that barbell. We went from, well, I want to honor my mother and father to, well, I guess toxic codependency just runs in our family.

1:23:17That's who we are. That's right. I don't know how we got there, but I know that you can break the cycle and it's really hard. It's really hard to be the first one to go, mom, we're moving out and we're going to have to sell your house and find you somewhere that you can rent. But I don't want to sell it. This was me and your father's house. I know. And we have a really ugly, heartbreaking math problem to solve here. Or the other side of it is, hey, honey, daughter, son, I'm calling you after three years. I'm sorry. Can I come visit you for a cup of coffee? Or hey, mom, dad, we cut you off three years ago because of a fight over politics.

1:23:51I'm sorry. I don't want to talk about politics, but I miss my mom, right? There's ways to heal these things generationally, but good grief man this polarization in these households is madness yeah you got to take care of your own household first unfortunately adults can make their own decisions and those decisions have consequences and unfortunately the hard part to realize it's not your problem to solve

1:24:20Dr. John Delony:hey folks our fourth of july sale is happening right now from july 3rd through the 6th when you buy a sale book at full price, you'll get a second one half off. Grab the Total Money Makeover, Breaking Free from Broke, or even Smart Money, Smart Kids, all written to help you win with money. This Independence Day, celebrate your freedom with tools that help you ditch debt and money stress so you can build the future you want. Visit RamseySolutions.com slash store to get started.

1:25:03From the Ramsey Network, this is The Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships. I'm George Camel, here with Dr. John Maloney, host of The Dr. John Maloney Show, and we're taking your calls at 888-825-5225. Kevin is with us in Fort Worth, Texas, salt of the earth, folks over there. What's going on, Kevin?

1:25:25Dr. John Delony:Good afternoon. Thanks for taking my call. What's up, man? So I met this wonderful lady about six years ago, and obviously marriage has come up, and that's the next step of progression. And my main question is, I probably struggle with it more than she ever thinks about it, but how do I be a dutiful Christian husband and a leader of the family when she makes substantially more than I do? You can't. You have to make more money than her. I know. I'm totally kidding, man. No, I get that. What is the gap out of curiosity? So I've always done well for myself, or at least thought I did until I met her.

1:26:09Dr. John Delony:I make about$200,$220. Loser. Oh, you're just like phoning it in, dude. I know. I need to work on tripling that at least. But no, she's somewhere in the$3.5 to$4 million a year. What? What does she do? They own an insurance company and a myriad of other. I always tell her her business empire. It's a lot of things, but it's all related around insurance. Any chance she's taking applications?

1:26:40Dr. John Delony:I've actually helped out a lot with the different businesses and whatnot because I'm in financial services myself. Oh, nice. Well, here's the good news. She's not marrying you for the money. She's doing it because she loves you. So that will never be an issue. Whether you make a dollar or a million dollars, it's chump change to her world. But here's the other thing. I've never read a piece of scripture that has told me the husband must make more than the wife or else you're not a dutiful husband. So I don't know where that came from. I'm sure it's just years of, you know, church repression. No, this is your insecurity, bro.

1:27:14And you're going to have to decide that this woman loves me and I'm worth being loved for my measly quarter of a million dollar salary that I make.

1:27:27Dude, I can go on a whole rant about this. We could talk for an hour about this. But this idea of Christian leadership is not about me sitting at the top of some throne. That's not leadership. What that's referring to is, and if you read the whole scripture section, think of it this way. It is you choosing to get underneath the squat rack and get underneath the whole thing. Leadership is about service. It's not about dollars, and it's not about muscles. It's about service. And so you'll be the chief service officer of this family. And that might mean I'm going to lay down my life. in this current world, it doesn't.

1:28:10Sometimes in this current world, protecting and providing means I'm going to protect my wife's spirit and her time. I'm going to provide a listening ear and I'm going to provide a safe space for her to crash because she's running 17 companies at once. It's this whole just beefcake Magoo illusion that Instagram and YouTube has shoved on our throat. It's not leadership. And if you ask, I'm trying to think of the wealthiest guy. If you ask Sharon Ramsey, Dave's wife, she'll tell you they make dot, dot, dot. And I have been in the room when Sharon makes a decision on something that doesn't make Dave, not a leader that makes him a person who serves his wife.

1:28:49And he quote unquote makes the money, but they have created a household that they work at together. George and his wife are in the same boat. Me and my wife are in the same boat.

1:29:00Dr. John Delony:Yeah. And, you know, she's been really great about completely open about everything. I know about everything with the finances. In fact, I recently, in the last two or three years, have taken over managing some of the money. I've got my Series 7 and 66. So it's just growing up and prior relationships have always been the provider. And then I run into her and it's like, oh, you've got this cute job. Here's what I've got going on. And by the way, you're still going to provide. It's just going to look different than the internet says it is. You're going to provide a safe place to land. You're going to provide stability.

1:29:36You might provide laundry service. You might provide all sorts of different things, but you are the chief service officer. That's what leadership is. It's not, I get my way because I have bigger muscles and I make more money. That's just a nonsensical bastardization of a really amazing scripture. Also realize that we take a lot of calls in this show where the husband makes more than the wife and their terrible husbands and their terrible dads. So there's no correlation between that. Now, can you provide? Yeah, absolutely. That's an important factor to any future mate is can you be a good partner in this journey of life and provide for our family?

1:30:14Money is a part of that, but you guys are, this is not even a part of that equation. I mean, you guys are doing so well that it's not even a concern. And so I want to get to the real root behind that, aside from the money, what are your fears about marrying her?

1:30:30Dr. John Delony:I don't have any fears. It's exactly what y 'all talked about. It's the psychological thing of, I was married prior for many years and we have a grown daughter together. And I've just been used to like, that's what the husband does, you provide. And that's what I did. And running into this situation, like I said, everything's been completely open and honest and she's wonderful. In fact, she lets me take care of everything. I don't – I would rather her not mess with anything around the house. If the sink breaks, I'll either fix it or we'll get something over here. Can I interrupt you here? Can I interrupt you here?

1:31:05Yeah, go ahead. This is – I'm letting loose a secret from our secret men's meeting that we all attend on Monday nights. I didn't get the invite to that, by the way. Exactly. You have a used Prius and two French Bulldogs, so you're not invited yet. But here's the thing. I don't know personally a dad who, if they're being honest, thinks they're crushing it. And I honestly, if I'm really honest, I don't know a husband that when pushed would say, I really think I'm doing a good job. And there's this meta message that we've all inhaled. it's the air we breathe for the last 50 years that our very, our very essence is somehow poisonous.

1:31:50It's toxic. Our being. And if you're coming off a divorce, coming off raising a daughter, you've got this in spades, right? Yeah.

1:31:59Dr. John Delony:It's just been me for the last eight, seven, eight years. Okay. So beneath all of this thing, most men, if you ask them, they define themselves. They answer the question, what are you worth with a number? Cause that's all they have left. And now you found a woman who says, no, no, no, no, no. I don't care about your money. I pick you and you don't believe it. That's probably true. And so it is true, bro, because we're all in the same boat, even George. And so here's the thing. At some point, you're going to have to exhale and accept this, that this woman chose you. And you're going to have to decouple your identity from a number.

1:32:36And say the only answer to the question, what are you worth is who do you love and who loves you? Period. Does your daughter love you? You doing the best you could with her?

1:32:47Dr. John Delony:Yeah. She calls me all the time. It gets annoying sometimes. And she just wants to breathe on the phone. As it always does. Good. That's awesome. Do you have a couple of ride or die guy friends that you call and reach out to? Yes. Recently, you joined a church group. I've been going to you for a long time. So that's been helpful. Amazing. I don't really disclose all that. I know you don't. I know you don't. You're going to have to find a couple of men that you can be honest with in your life. because men die from keeping secrets. It melts them from the inside out. And then at some point, you're going to have to get the courage up, forget the dollar amount.

1:33:18You're going to have to go get a ring and ask this woman to marry you if that's what you want to do. I would have done that like six months ago. Probably four years ago for me, but hey, here we are six years into it. Go get your spreadsheet ready. Let's figure out what ring we're going to get. Let's go ring shopping, my friend. You're worth more than your bank account, my brother. You're a good man, and it's an honor to know you.

1:34:09Dr. John Delony:We'll be right back. call all the way to closing day. To find a Ramsey trusted agent near you, visit RamseySolutions.com slash agent. RamseySolutions.com slash agent.

1:34:39Are you staying on track with the baby steps? You can take a quick quiz to check your progress and get a personalized plan made just for you. Simply head to the show notes and click on the link titled, Are You On Track With The Baby Steps? and complete the quiz. Claire's in Baton Rouge up next. What's going on, Claire?

1:34:57Dr. John Delony:Hi, thank you for taking my call. So my question is surrounding how to have good conversations with money. So my husband and I are in a pretty good financial place. We don't have debt. We don't have mortgage. We have a large family, and we have a business that's doing pretty well and meeting our family's needs. We both grew up with unhealthy dynamics surrounding money. In my home, we didn't talk about money, and it felt like needing anything was wrong. And my husband's family situation was very up and down. It followed the ups and downs of business. So it was either an all-or-nothing mindset. Now that we're married, my husband is so good at being generous.

1:35:40Dr. John Delony:but when it comes to our own home, sometimes it seems like we struggle with a scarcity mindset and we struggle to view money as a tool. And so I was just wondering if y 'all had counsel for how we can navigate that better. Do you struggle with being a people pleaser? I mean, sure. Sure. I love how you called about your husband's challenge with the scarcity mindset and it was, we struggle with it. Yeah. Do you struggle or does he struggle with this? I think truthfully we both do. But it definitely falls. I would say that he probably leaves that a little bit in our home. So give me an example of what that looks like.

1:36:24And here's what I'm asking. I struggle with this too. Money was tight in my home growing up. There was some scary seasons. And I have an extra deep freezer full of meat at all times. Right. And I am always balancing between being overly giving away too much and holding it really tightly. Give me an example in your house of what does a scarcity mindset look like played out?

1:36:52Dr. John Delony:So a scarcity mindset might look like if I have an opportunity. We have eight daughters. So if I have an opportunity to take two of my girls for just some alone time with them on like a weekend trip, it comes down to like dollars in, dollars out. And there's just anxiety for him surrounding like overspending. But if we hear that somebody in our community, for example, is struggling, I mean, there is no limit to his generosity. And I love that so much about him. But I want my girls also to be raised with a – to view money as a tool and to live open-handed and not like clenched fists. Sure. I get that.

1:37:31Dr. John Delony:So finding that balance is somewhat of a challenge. Does he find it selfish to spend it all on his own family when it could be going to other people who need it more? Very much so. Is that it? Very much so. Yes, sir. He's like Mother Teresa out here. Yeah. Okay. Well, I mean, it sounds like he probably got a message across the course of his life that people like us don't do that kind of thing. Or those are the folks that waste their money on vacations or you're not worth a vacation, right? And so it's some of that's just taking ownership of, no, this is us. And we're actually working really hard and doing well.

1:38:03And having some joy in our life isn't a sin and it's not some zero and all that. But that's a tough thing to do. George, what do you think? Well, how much money do you guys make? I'm trying to see how much reality there is to this and how much is just insanity.

1:38:17Dr. John Delony:So we live very lean. So we have a trust fund and we have a business. So we bring into our home$6 ,000 a month and we make that work for our family. A family of 10? Yes. Where does your grocery bill? I think people want to know. Um, yeah, I'm a pretty shrewd grocery shopper and we eat really a lot of vegetables and meat. Are you buying like manager special here? Like, what are we talking when you say I'm frugal? Are the neighbors missing all their pets? How are y 'all coming up with all this meat? No. So we, I do shop at like when meat goes on sale or like in our town, there's a lot of like buy one, get one at penny meat sales.

1:39:02Dr. John Delony:So we buy and we freeze and then we cook that. And our children are pretty young, so they're not eating a ton of food yet. Buckle up, man. We've adopted a lot of them. Yeah. Well, good for you. That's amazing. And so you bring home$6 ,000, but what is your total net worth?

1:39:22Dr. John Delony:Probably close to like$8 million. Okay. I just threw my pen just so you can, if you'd heard that. So here's the reality. You kind of buried the lead on that one. How are y 'all worth$8 million? My, uh, just generosity, uh, as far as like, we got a big inheritance and, um, we just want to, anyway, we got a big inheritance from a business sale. Okay. There's, there's a few books that I think would help you. I can send you one of them. One is Know Yourself, Know Your Money from our friend, Rachel Cruz. In it, she walks through the different money classrooms. And I think that's going to be very eyeopening to help you guys understand each other better and understand how to move forward from that to put away, you know, the emotions from the facts.

1:40:06The other book that I would recommend is one called Die With Zero. And it's not one that I agree with entirely, but it unlocks something for me because I am a very scarcity, frugal guy. And it really walks through the argument that you should use your wealth and your inheritance while your kids are still alive, instead of sending them what will be likely $100 million by the time you guys pass away. And your kids are then in their 60s by then. And so I think that will help unlock something for you and your husband if you go through those books to go, you know what? We have$8 million. If we just put away$4 million for our family, let the other$4 million grow, we're going to be okay.

1:40:46We could spend – you can get with a financial advisor. They can crunch the numbers to help you understand that if you spent, let's say,$250 ,000 per year, you would still never even touch the principle on the investment account balance. Yeah.

1:41:02Dr. John Delony:Yeah, my investment account isn't that full amount. When you asked total, I was thinking like house, business, and truck. Sure, but I mean as far as money you have access to, could you increase your household income, quote unquote, to$10 ,000 per month and it wouldn't affect your wealth? Gotcha. Do you see what I mean though? That's an extra$4 ,000 a month. and if you allocate it, here's what I would do. Sit down and make a budget with every dollar with your husband and force yourself to add some line items that make you a little bit uncomfortable, that scare you a little bit. To go, you know what?

1:41:33We're going to spend a thousand bucks on clothing this month for the girls. And we're going to put in a$2 ,000 monthly vacation fund so that we have 24 grand to spend to have some amazing experiences while these girls are still young. Because Disney ain't cheap. And I think you should take all eight of them. You hear me say this? Like if you had a family of 10 and your take home was$6 ,000, I would tell you that your husband's scarcity mindset is probably well-founded. He's very nervous. Knowing you'll have a net worth of$8 million, then what I would suggest is it's bordering on pathological, right?

1:42:11There's a disconnection from reality because the reality is you all really have to lose your minds to burn through this. Right. And so the day-to-day actions are either going to be something like George just said, I want you to hear this word practice. We're going to – often, George, you hear this in the show, we're often telling people you've got to practice saving money because you've never done that. You all have the exact opposite. Or some people have to practice generosity. You've got to put a line item in your budget that makes you uncomfortable and give that away, whether it's tips, local church, anything.

1:42:40You guys have to practice the experience of feeling joy. the experience of spending money and watching your daughters laugh and smile. That's a muscle you'll have to practice. He might need some hobbies where he practices spending money on things that feel frivolous to him, that actually give him joy and fill his cup. And remember, there's only three things you can do with money. You can give it, you can save it, you can spend it. You guys are great at the first two, aren't you?

1:43:11Dr. John Delony:Yes. But we have a flat tire on the spending category, and it's affecting your mental health. It's affecting your family. It's affecting the experiences and the growth of these wonderful girls that you guys are raising. And so there's a lot of people who spend way more than they make and they're out of control and we have to yell at them and try to convince them to do better. You guys are on the very opposite side of the spectrum. We're begging you to waste some money. And here's how I know this isn't principle-based, okay? He didn't give$8 million away. no which means he's giving away his discomfort which in a gross way is means he's using other people on a week by week month by month basis to make himself feel better that's not a principle that's using other people as a xanax you get what i'm saying so we're going to look at this we're going to practice spending money on ourselves and we're going to practice joy hang online i'll get It's your Rachel's book, Know Yourself, Know Your Money, and look up Die With Zero as well.

1:44:12This is The Ramsey Show.

1:44:26Dr. John Delony:Hey, folks, our 4th of July sale is happening right now from July 3rd through the 6th. When you buy a sale book at full price, you'll get a second one half off. Grab the Total Money Makeover, Breaking Free from Broke, or even Smart Money, Smart Kids, all written to help you win with money. This Independence Day, celebrate your freedom with tools that help you ditch debt and money stress so you can build the future you want. Visit RamseySolutions.com slash store to get started.

1:45:13Two weekends are on sale now for the Money and Merit Getaway. You can spend three incredible days here in Nashville with your spouse, learning the tools to strengthen your connection, deepen your intimacy, and more. And bonus, Dr. John Deloney and Rachel Cruz will be there hosting you the entire time. This is happening in November and February. Early bird pricing is available now. Tickets start at$749 per couple. And you can get the tickets for the lowest price before they end at RamseySolutions.com slash getaway or click the link in the show notes if you're listening on YouTube or podcast. And I assume John is hard at work preparing.

1:45:48We already are. We do an entirely new event every year. So I'm excited for it, man. Because you take all the feedback and a lot of people come back. And so now it's like we got to give us something new. Yeah, the room sells out. Half the room sells out before that one's always over. It's become like an annual retreat in a good way. Not like our marriage is in crisis, but just like, man, this is so refreshing to connect, leave the kids at home. It's the best marriage event in the country, I think. And it's a lot of fun. And Nashville's a great city just to come hang out in. 100%. So join us. Go to ramsysolutions.com slash getaway.

1:46:21Sarah is in Albany, Georgia, coming up next. What's going on, Sarah?

1:46:26Dr. John Delony:Hey, good talk to you guys. I'm kind of nervous now. Don't freak out, but Dr. John Deloney is next to me. Okay. um so my question is um so my husband and i have been married uh going on eight years this september we've got three kids we just had our third um just right at a month ago so um you know we're getting how are you speaking coherently um i don't really know so um my my youngest two are actually only 15 months apart so our last one And she was a little bit of a surprise to us. Surprise! Yeah, kind of surprised. And we actually also survived the Hurricane Helene that just came through in September.

1:47:10Dr. John Delony:So we found out about her right afterwards. So, yeah, I don't know how I'm talking coherently right now. We'll help you through it. What's your question today? So basically, after my husband just recently changed jobs, It was a little bit of a pay cut, but it's a higher ceiling to grow from where he was at previously. But with that pay cut, it's kind of set us back a little bit financially. We do have a little bit of debt, and this setback has kind of got us to where we've always been paycheck to paycheck, But now it's got us to where we're just kind of just scraping by and we're not able to really work at our debt the way we need to.

1:47:59Dr. John Delony:So kind of trying to get an idea of, you know, how to cut down the debt, because that is a majority of where our finances need to be going right now. How much debt do you have? It's taking a lot out of us, about$42 ,000. Yeah, that's more than a little bit. Okay, what kind of debt is that? Most of it is in a car payment, and then the rest of it is kind of spread across the credit cards. And then, yeah, credit cards. Have you cut up the credit cards and stopped using them completely yet? If it were up to me, we would. Oh. But my husband is, yeah, we're kind of back and forth on it. He's just kind of like, well, this is what's helped us survive so far.

1:48:46Dr. John Delony:and neither of us have very good financial upbringing, I guess you would say. And so we're trying to do the best we can, but it's kind of like, you know, he's just trying to survive at this point. So he likes the security blankie of 29 % APR and under the guise that we are somehow helping our family. What was the long-term move here? I have multiple times in my professional life taken a pay cut for a job that would offer increased opportunities, but it's always ROI'd itself pretty quickly. What was your plan on taking a pay cut, or what was his plan on doing that? So really, the job he was working at before, it was he was getting up at 2 o 'clock in the morning to go make donuts.

1:49:39Dr. John Delony:And he was very just kind of, you know, that's exhausting. And we weren't, he wasn't able to make any more. Like they weren't going to be able to offer him very much more money. And so this job is starting, you know, they started him out just a little bit less of what he's making. What's he making now? Oh, my word. Yes, I think it's monthly. he gets take home is probably about 3 ,500. And what are these growth opportunities they promised him? So as the business grows, his department is going to grow. So he would move up in the company as he grows. What kind of work is he doing now? So he's over the logistics department for the portable shed building company here from where we're from.

1:50:33Dr. John Delony:But they've actually opened up other branches in other states now. So it's growing very quickly. It's just his paycheck is not growing like he needs it to. Yeah, this feels two things. It feels kind of MLM-y to me. And multi-level marketing-y. Like, alright bro, listen, we got all these opportunities. Get on the ground floor. Yeah, get in early and we're going to open up all these shops and whatever and you're going to grow job to job to job. When a company does that, what they get is the benefit of his employment and his loyalty and then they get to try him out for six or seven years and so they don't have as much skin in the game and in in exchange he takes a pay cut comes in works his butt off and does really good and then kind of use and abuse him without any sort of increase here and so without a plan for okay i'm gonna come in here for two years i'm gonna run this thing and then the next step will be x y or z it's all like yeah when this thing gets really cooking then we're all gonna right and this thing's never gonna quote-unquote get really cooking because well we had to open another location we had a leadership challenge and bro dude we're in this together and that just i don't know dude it just makes me i would get some clarity on what it looks like to get that bump get that promotion of is it a certain revenue metric is it a six-month performance review where they're going to look at everything versus just like a wish and a hope So that's one piece of it.

1:51:59This car loan, what's left on it?

1:52:04Dr. John Delony:$27 ,000. And what is it worth? I actually really don't know. Okay, add that to your homework assignment to jump on Kelly Blue Book, find the private party value, not a trade-in value. You're going to get hosed on that. And I would see if you can sell that because that car is more than half of your annual income. That's a major problem. and contrary to popular belief we had two kids in a corolla we had two kids in a used prius george has two car seats in his used tesla you can make it on other cars okay yeah i know it doesn't like well i really you can and y 'all can't afford this car yeah and is it his car is it a truck what is it security blanket for him it's a um it's a gmc acadia um but like what he was saying it's kind of a security blanket he grew up um just broke down the side of the road majority of the time totally get it to him to him it's like i would rather i would be i want to make a car payment and know that my family's in a safe car and um but it's still you know and i totally totally get that both george and i want our families in safe cars and that's a false dichotomy he's drawn a false picture it's an it's not an either or there's a whole bunch in between And by the way, your nice car they're making a payment on, we took a call earlier where there was somebody whose engine exploded.

1:53:28So you're – it's – There's no guarantee. Yeah, you're not hedging anything here. And so if you sell that and you save up enough in cash or take the difference if you can profit from the car and buy something in cash, you don't have to buy$2 ,000, you know, 1997, but you can do a pre-purchase inspection, make sure it's a reliable vehicle, research the make, model, and year that works for your family. And it's just for now. This might be a year, but that's going to get you guys out of over half the debt you're in. And the rest is all credit cards? Yes. Yeah. So his game plan is just to continually go into credit card debt thinking, well, eventually, maybe, hopefully, I'll make enough that we can climb out of this?

1:54:06Dr. John Delony:Yeah. Basically, yeah. At least until he can get a raise and get back to where he was, I guess. I promise you that's not how it works. Yeah. Guaranteed. There's going to be some side hustles involved from you or him. Maybe he gets home and you guys high five and he takes over with the kids and you go to work. But the only way out of this is increasing the income and getting rid of this car. Hang on the line. We're going to send you Financial Peace University. You'll have to watch all nine lessons together. If you promise you'll do that, we'll get you hooked up. Hang on.

1:54:59We'll see you next time.

1:55:12Our scripture of the day, Lamentations 325. The Lord is good to those who wait for him, to the soul who seeks him. David Lee Roth said, money can't buy you happiness, but it can buy you a yacht big enough to pull up right alongside it. That's the most David Lee Roth quote. There you go. Man, we are really reaching for some of those words of wisdom. Just pulling up right next to Jeff Bezos in the happiness yacht. Jeez. Allie's up next in San Francisco. What's going on, Allie?

1:55:43Dr. John Delony:Hi. My quick question here is how do I set myself up specifically financially as we head towards a possible divorce? Oh, gosh. I'm so sorry. How possible? um we had some affairs infidelity things happen i don't know six seven years ago and now we are going to marriage counseling to discuss like wrapping that up like how can we move forward from this and so um i felt like he's kind of been half in half out so i kind of just asked like hey are are we going to be i felt like god showed me this vision for like what our new marriage should be and how it should be centered in christ and so i kind of shared that and i was like cool I would like to know if you're all in on us doing this and having a new marriage or if you're all out.

1:56:32Dr. John Delony:And he kind of said maybe. And then towards the he said, like, oh, I need a couple of days to think about this. And then he towards the end, he said no. But then he wants to go back in a week to see the marriage therapist again to talk about his maybe he changes mind. So that's why I see possible. So he kind of ended the session with no. But now we're going to see her tomorrow, a week later to see if he has changed his mind or not. I'm not really sure. So I just, I'm like, I don't know what to do. If he says yes, yeah, let's start this new marriage with new skills or no, I don't want to continue.

1:57:08So how long have you been married with him?

1:57:13Dr. John Delony:11 years. So you know what he's going to say tomorrow. What do you think he's going to say? I mean, you know him. I think he's going to say yes. Do what? I think he's going to say yes. I think he's going to say yes. I want to do this a new way. I want to have this new marriage because we both are recognizing, like we both kind of sucked up being married and we want to do this new thing. So I feel like he's going to say yes, but I want to be prepared. Even if he does say yes, our finances need to change because I'm really in the dark with a lot of it. Okay. Do you guys have kids? Yeah, we have four, four of our young kids.

1:57:44Dr. John Delony:So like between five and 11. Okay. So I'm like a stay at home mom. And that's a scary place that you're finding yourself, right? Or it's an exposed place, right? Yeah, yeah. I feel like that's been a big barrier. That was like one of the big conversations I wanted to have as we went into marriage therapy, but I really felt like God was telling me to ask him like, hey, are you all in first before we continue even diving into the financial conversations? So I think the meta question here, no pun intended since you're in San Francisco, but the meta question here is, can we have a marriage that doesn't have any more secrets?

1:58:19And that's sharing passcodes, that's sharing checking accounts, that's sharing financial information, that's being completely honest about past affairs, that's putting everything on the table. And neither of you are going to be able to fully put both feet in the boat until you both feel like everything's out there. You don't have to go into details. Like, I don't want to hear all the gruesome details of your past affair, but I got to know what's out there. Right. Yeah. And so I think getting your finances in order is first about even knowing where you are, having any semblance of what's going on.

1:58:50And if you're a if you're a stay at home mom of four young kids, then there's not a whole lot of getting in order the finances. Right. Because it's not like you have you can you're working a full time job, but you can start putting money in a checking account to prepare. for yourself, right? You're really exposed.

1:59:09Dr. John Delony:Yeah, I think that was my biggest worry. And maybe that comes up and if he says yes, I mean, I think it's fair to put on the table. The thought of you saying no made me realize how scared I, how alone I feel in this marriage. Yeah. And how scared I am for my own safety. And any husband worth their salt doesn't want the woman they're with to be scared about their own existence, right?

1:59:38Dr. John Delony:Yeah. And I think I haven't ever shared that because I feel like I just, it's hard for me to share my feelings and be dependent on somebody. Yes. And that's part of the dance that y 'all have co-created because he knows you're not fully in the boat either because he doesn't really feel like he knows you because he doesn't. Yeah. he just knows when he's around you you feel less safe and he doesn't know what he's doing so maybe i'm gonna go make more money and maybe i'm gonna go do this so that we can and it just creates that dance and that's i'm so proud of y 'all for going to the therapist and just turning the lights on and stopping the music and say we got to quit this we got to quit this particular dance are you willing to learn a new one but that means you got to tell the full truth and the whole truth and nothing but the truth yeah what's your financial picture look like do You guys own a home?

2:00:25Dr. John Delony:No, we're renting. Okay. Do you have debt? Yeah, I feel like we have a lot. I don't know what that's compared to, but it feels like we have a lot. What's the number? I have, I don't even know. I'll throw it out and we can add it. I have three credit cards that have gone to collections because he decided he wasn't going to pay for my bills anymore. Oh, wow. And so I think I have one that's like 10K, 5K, and 4K. So I think that's a pretty good ballpark for the three credit cards I have. Those are the debts that are under my name specifically. And then I know that he has a couple of credit cards.

2:01:04Dr. John Delony:He had one for like, I think, 20K that I think he recently paid off with his bonus. So I think that one is mostly done. If there's anything left, maybe a couple thousand on that one. and I know he has two other credit cards. Okay, I want to challenge you real quick, okay? I know George is digging into the money. You all have already separated. Yeah, I feel like that happened when he decided, oh yeah, I'm not paying for this stuff anymore. Right. When he started using the words yours and mine, and as you're talking to us, this is mine, that's his, and I'm not paying your bills, but you're not paying mine, y 'all are already separated.

2:01:38Y 'all just live in the same house.

2:01:40Dr. John Delony:Yes, I agree. That's why I've decided to ask that question. I don't even want to continue marriage therapy if we're out. Do we want to formalize the separation or do we want to formalize a reconnection? Awesome. So yes, I agree. Yeah. So you've got 19K in credit card debt. He has an unknown amount in credit card debt. Any other debt? I think that's it. We have a car that's paid off and then he has two motorcycles. I believe those two are also paid off actually. Okay. Okay. So the one thing you can do is to check your credit report. You can go pull it at annualcreditreport.com from all three bureaus.

2:02:18It's free. And that'll give you a real clear picture of what debts are in your name tied to you. And then your job is going to be to clean up your mess and to make sure that you don't go into any new debt and that you don't have any debt attached to him that has your name on it. Okay. So that's one way to start to protect yourself. I assume you guys have separate bank accounts already.

2:02:41Dr. John Delony:No, we actually have the same account. Just one joint account? So when he says that's your credit cards, what did you buy? I actually used them during kind of like the three or four years of all of the affairs and stuff like that because he was also spending a lot of the money. So I just had to use their credit cards to literally just buy groceries, like just basic necessity things that have kind of like stocked up. Okay. Were y 'all both cheating on each other? You referred to the affairs. Was it both of y 'all or was it just him? No, it was just him. Okay. Yeah, it was just him. Yeah. Okay. Well, no, you know, there's going to be state laws that come into play and divorce decrees and judges deciding who's going to get what and custody.

2:03:24It's going to be messy and it's probably going to take a while. But on the other side, there's likely going to be, you know, alimony and child support. I hope he pays. We've taken a lot of calls this week where they just go, yeah, he just decided not to. and that's it and so I don't know that situation on your side um but I would definitely start to get your ducks in a row to make sure that you at least have as little damage to clean up as possible

2:03:48Dr. John Delony:do you have family support yeah I yeah I have a really good family support they're not super close by but I think immediately I would be able to have access to their support and things like that if on the off chance he comes in tomorrow and says hey I'm out yeah the faster you can metabolize what the life I had is over, the faster you can get to what I would call survival. It's the people who are like, no, no, no, maybe the boat's not sinking, even though it's half underwater. The faster you can say this boat is going under, I need to get to a life raft, the better. And so the faster you can say, okay, I don't, I didn't want to move in with my parents, but I got to, cause I got four young kids.

2:04:28I didn't want to go to work and put four kids in daycare, but I have to, like the faster you can get from that reality to your new reality, it's not going to be any like feel any better but man you can start making some headway but hopefully he says i'm sorry and i'm going to repent for how i've treated you and these and these kids and i'm ready to go all in on a new marriage we'll be thinking about you guys