Episode 315 - An Update from Avantis with Eduardo Repetto

26:08It's the benefit that this structure brings to an investor. It's quite impressive. Even here, there's some big fund companies that are rolling out ETF versions of their mutual funds. So it's a trend here as well. But what is interesting, a lot of people are speaking about creating share classes. So you have a fund and you create a share class of the fund that is an ETF. And I'm not a big believer in that. Why? Because if I have an ETF, whenever I buy and sell, I want to be sure that no one else comes in cash and impose costs on me. So if you give me the ability to have a fund, I'm an investor now, and I can buy an ETF that is standalone or an ETF that is a share class of a fund, everything equal, I always pick the ETF that is standalone.

26:55Why? Why? Because if I'm buying ETFs that is the share class of the fund, I'm exposed to cash flows in and out from people coming in the fund share class that are coming in cash and they're going in cash. In ETF, I don't have that issue. I'm completely isolated. So, yes, a lot of people are bringing, trying, at least in the U.S., I don't know, trying to bring this share class. It's not fully approved yet, but they're trying to bring share class, ETF share classes attached to their existing funds. basically to save their funds. I don't think it. I prefer to have ETF alone. That's why, you know, we have the same strategies stand alone, find an ETF.

27:33So you want the fund for whatever reason you want the fund. Maybe you are a 401k. You have no choice by having a fund. Okay, we have a fund. You want an ETF? You have an ETF. We try not to give you the cocktail and the dessert mix. We try to give them both of them so you can decide which one is best for you. What are you hearing from the advisor community or the investment community at large about why they're allocating to your strategies? You can imagine. It's such a diverse group of people. So there are many, many different stories why. Some people do it because they love our strategies. And I imagine that's a lot.

28:08And they also the pricing. Some people do it because they want manager diversification. They want to have one more manager that is really good. That allows me to diversify my managers. So that's another reason. There are different people that do it for different reasons. The performance has been quite good. You know the numbers. Our fees are low. Our service is good. You know that we produce this thing called the field guide that comes in the third business day or the month that is broadly used by the advisory community. And so I think that we provide good products and good service at a very attractive fee.

28:43And so I always think about the rest of it. It's the same. So if you have these three things together, people sooner or later will realize it's worth doing business with these guys. Early on, people can say, well, I don't know if they will survive or let's see what happens or let's get more track record. But the more that the time passes and the strategies prove themselves and the service prove themselves and people realize, oh, this is good for my clients. Some advisors are extremely good fiduciaries. They love to find solutions that will improve their client's portfolio, that will improve the outcome for their clients.

29:24I think we came to market basically with an idea that we could provide a state-of-the-art solution with a state-of-the-art client service and a very attractive price. People have embraced that. We strive to keep on doing that and even better every day. You tell me, you're an advisor. You have a lot of experience as an advisor. So you tell me, why will you use someone like us? I think you touched on a lot of the right points. You guys aren't in Canada, obviously, so it's not something that we've had to seriously consider. I'm not selling in Canada. Yet. Yet. But from other advisors I've talked to, I mean, manager diversification for sure.

29:59You guys did come in with a nice product at a lower fee than some of your direct competition. Those have all been meaningful. And then like you said, you launched at a time when performance ended up being pretty good after the launch. And I think that always helps. That helps. If you look at long-term, it's more than just a time in lack. It's a long-term, but anyway, we're well-positioned. I agree. Sorry, I interrupted you. Do you have any sense, Eduardo, of your client breakdown, like advisors versus individual investors or DIYers? Can you tell? Most of the money is advisors or wealth management money.

30:34We also have institutional money. We also have some advisory business with a lot of insurance companies. and you're asking me basically how much you have in retail clients. And the answer is I cannot be completely sure. It's quite difficult for a retail client to find us, unless it's someone that is very knowledgeable. I'm sure that a lot of people listen to your podcast or read them some particular technique. Because we don't do technical publication, but we don't do advertising. You're not going to go and see the Dodgers, Avantis, or whatever. and we don't have in Forbes or in Wall Street Journal a page with, oh, look at all my morning star stars or anything.

31:16So we are not targeting retail clients. It's not our business. We like to speak with people that are knowledgeable. And there is a lot of retail clients that are knowledgeable, but it's very difficult for us to know who. So by working with intermediaries like institutional consultants or offices of institutions or professionals in insurance companies or other asset managers or well-managed advisors in general, while speaking with people that are knowledgeable, and we can explain what we do, and they learn what we do, and then they learn how to use that in their asset allocation. So we feel way more comfortable with that.

31:55Yeah, that's interesting. That'll make people listening to the podcast feel very special because, like you said, many of our listeners are retail investors who are using Avantis products. they'll feel like they've got a secret. So all of us are kind of geeks. If we listen to Rational Reminder, even the name, the Rational Reminder, all of us are kind of geeks in this field. And that's okay. It's very nice to create a community like the community that you guys have created where people that have a common interest can listen, participate, learn, debate. It's impressive what you guys have done. Thanks, Ivara.

32:28Since the last time you were on Rational Reminder, you guys have actually launched an emerging markets small cap strategy, which is something you didn't have last time. One of the questions we got from the Roush Reminder community is, is there potential for an emerging markets small cap value strategy in the future? We thought about that. And what we did is something slightly different. We have a strategy that we call the emerging markets value. So that emerging market value strategy is not a market-wide strategy. It's not get all the value stock from mega caps to small caps. What we do is we exclude megacaps.

33:05The largest megacaps are not part of that strategy. So you can think about that strategy as a small mid. Maybe it's a little bit larger than a small mid, depending how you define megacaps. But it doesn't have the largest megacaps. So that was our solution for a small value strategy. So let me give you an idea. Let me give you an idea. If you look at the market-wide strategy in value, the allocation to large caps, to the largest cap, is around 40%. So call it large and mega caps. Then you have mid caps and then you have small caps. It's like 40%. This is a big number. Our allocation is much smaller to those companies.

33:48So our weighty average, our geometric market capitalization on that emerging market value is around 6.5 billion. This is more than Star Data. Anyone can check it. And if you look at MSCI emerging markets, geometric market capitalization is$28 billion. So we're way smaller if you think about market capitalization. Now, there are smaller market cap solutions than us in emerging markets. Others provide smaller than$6.5 billion geometric market capitalization. But our view is that once you get out of mega caps and you get into mid caps and smaller caps, and if you consider the full valuation framework trying to buy companies that despite the high profitability they're trading at the price, you have a nice universe of company with nice valuation spreads and you can provide good value added.

34:39And so I think we do something for people that are asking about emerging markets as small value. I think what we have may satisfy the need. It's not as small, I understand, but I think it may satisfy the need. Since you guys launched in 2019, have there been any enhancements or improvements to the way you guys implement portfolios at Avantis? The lucky thing is we didn't have to make any big changes. We were having many big changes, maybe because we screwed up in something. So there have not been any big changes. But there has been a small improvement here and there. Some of the improvements are on processes.

35:17Like, remember, as I told you, dual baskets. At the beginning, we were not working with dual baskets. We were working with one basket. Soon later, we could start working with dual baskets. So they start moving to the one basket. That's it. Operationally, that's a big improvement. It's cumbersome, but it's a big improvement because it allows you to much better rebalance the portfolio at lower cost. So then they have another changes imposed on us because of changing reporting. So reporting in whatever country, financial reporting is changing in whatever country. So now we have to adapt and find the new variables that are going to work the way we want.

35:54So there have been small changes here and there. We have looked at a lot of things. So, for example, instead of using the cash profitability, at some point, we were looking at free cash flows. We found out that it didn't work as well as cash profitability, at least our version of cash profitability. The difference between free cash flows, the main difference, not the only difference, but the main difference between free cash flows and cash profitability is capital expenses. and you start thinking why it doesn't work as well is because in capital expenses, the manager, so the company, has quite a lot of discretion when they make it, how they make it, they can make all the capex for this year, for the next three years, or they can spread it out.

36:37So the numbers become less comparable. And one of the things I will learn from Robert, Robert Robin Mark's paper, is going up in income statement, you make numbers more comparable and being able to compare apples and apples is better than compared apples and oranges or pears or whatever is as close. And so free cash flow didn't work as well. And imagine that you have two companies, Ben and Cameron's company. And Ben's company and Cameron's company, they're great businesses, but Ben doesn't make any money, so he doesn't produce any cash flow, so he doesn't make any capital expense. So his free cash flow is low.

37:15Cameron makes a humongous amount of money, so he's bullish in his business. he makes a big capital expense, so his free cash flow is low. So the two businesses are very, very different, but they have similar free cash flows, while the cash flow operations is very, very different. So that is an idea why we found that it didn't work very well. So we play with a lot of things, trying to improve our metrics, pitifully or likely, depending on how you think. We haven't found yet something that is a big enough change to publicize. But there have been small changes here and there. What's the most exciting research you guys are looking at implementing now?

37:52We are working on the other side of the spectrum. We're on the value side. We're working on the growth side. We think we may have something interesting on the growth side. We'll see. We'll make some noise at some point. So we think we can have something interesting on the growth side. So that's interesting. But in general, we're always looking how to improve our proxies for the equity of the companies, our proxy for the cash flows of the company, or how we can improve efficiencies in our process, like I told you, dual basket or other things that we have been applying in order to minimize costs of every kind.

38:27ETF allows you to do a lot of improvements in the operations that, you know, it's savings pennies or sub pennies here and there, but everything adds up. So we are also working on that. But we will make more noise when we find something. But we're working on the growth side of the market. We think that there is room there to do some interesting things. Yeah, we noticed the prospectus you followed. I want to come back to that in a minute. We had Wei Dai from Dimensional on recently, and she talked about the cool thing that they're looking at right now is short-term reversals in their investment process.

38:58Is that something that you guys are looking at or will look at? Well, we look at short-term reversals, even when I was there. It's there. It's a bit controversial, depending on who you ask. I'm sure you ask some of the fishing market academics, you don't name it. They will tell you, ah, speed has spread, advance back. Way is great. Let me be clear. I cannot say more great things than way. Way is great. It's a pleasure as a person, but it's also a very knowledgeable person. Now, what is reversals? A reversals is basically, it's a very high turnover strategy because it's the performance of a company over a short period of time.

39:32It can be a week, it can be three weeks, it can be a month. So a company has the best performance over that very short period of time. The expectation is they have a reverse. They have bad performance in the next short period of time. So that's short-term results. So it's extremely high turnover strategy. You know our strategies. Our strategies are extremely low turnover. So if you look at our market-wide strategy, you are speaking about single dishes or very, very low double dishes in 10 % to 15 % at most. It's not expected to come more. Even if you look at our value strategy, turnover is around 20-25 % on expectations.

40:12We have low turnover. So when you have, let's call it a signal, that gives you information on a very high frequency basis, and you're trying to apply it to something that really doesn't move, you really don't have a lot of value added. It's just statistical noise when it comes to value added at the strategy level. So we know Reversa. We have Luca Reversa. We knew it. I knew it. Before this Avantis experience, we knew that before. And so for our strategies that are so diversified, so low turnover, really, they don't make any sense. No, it's just statistical noise. Let's put it that way at best.

40:51You mentioned earlier that there's some interesting things that can be done in the growth investing space. Avantis recently filed a prospectus for a US growth equity ETF. So I'm curious, what is it that you think that's interesting that can be done in the growth space? And then also, how do you think investors should think about allocating between growth and value? Still, we haven't settled on the name. Maybe we'll change the name. But on the growth space, one of the big things. So if you think about our valuation, we are using today's profits as a profit for future of profits can you improve that proxy can you improve the proxy can you have something better to say about not level but changes in level and the answer is maybe and so that's basically the angle that we are playing with and you can call growth or you can call quality or there's many ways to name these things and we haven't some people may say this is more quality than that growth, but it's all related.

41:49So that's basically the angle that we're playing with. When we come to market, we probably tell more about this. And the second part of your question is interesting. What do you think about how much an investor should buy value versus growth? Should they even buy growth? And the answer, I think, was given by Markowitz, not by me, so I cannot take credit. So Markowitz said, hey, when you're forming a portfolio, the specter returns alone is not the answer. you should consider spectra returns and risk. And so there is a trade-off there because if you just care about the spectra returns, you finish with one security in your portfolio, the one that you think has the highest spectra return ever.

42:29And so I think there is a role for growth, for value, for large, for small, for diversification in your portfolio. That doesn't mean that we cannot deviate from the market overweighting some securities because we think that the opportunity that those securities provide us is better than others. So we can deviate from the market over weighting value securities and under weighting growth securities. We think that value securities have higher expected return than growth securities. And you know, when we manage a portfolio like APUS, we have growth security, we have value security, we have large cap security, we have mid cap security, we have small cap security.

43:08But we deviate from market weights. So growth or a quality or a strategy plays a role in someone's portfolio. It may not be a market weight. It may be below market weight, but it plays a role in some simple quality. If we can create a strategy that is growth quality with higher spectra returns, it certainly will play a better role than a security that has lower spectra returns that certainly would be more underweighted. But all this plays a role when you're thinking about the trade-off between spectra returns and diversification. Yeah, really interesting. I think Novi Marks has, he talks about it as good growth in one of his favors.

43:47Robert is a clever guy. I saw Robert like one month ago, two months ago, after so many years on Monsignor. We were at an event and we had dinner together with other people in the table. It was such a pleasure. Yeah, yeah. So I always remember that Robert used to like old fashions with very little or no sugar. And by then he changed his drink. So I said, Robert, what happened? You changed your drink. And so it was funny. It was great to catch up. That's great. For funds like AVGE, which is like a single ticket asset allocation fund, how are decisions made about asset allocation? And just for example, one of the questions that we got from listeners is if they like the current factor tilts in that portfolio, should they be concerned at all that they will change over time, maybe get more aggressive or less aggressive with the tilts?

44:32That's a good concern because you are outsourcing the asset allocation to us. But it's a good concern, but I don't think they should be concerned because our strategies are not hyper-nope. So I would not expect any dramatic change in our tilting or allocations in our strategy. People that have views about their abilities to predict the future do changes. We don't do these changes. So our tilts should be quite stable. It should be quite stable unless there is a new discovery. either. It should be very, very stable. We tend to have low turnover strategies and whatnot. What it may change, for example, is country weights.

45:13You know that the U.S. now is a bigger fraction of the world. When I started, the U.S. was a smaller fraction of the world. So, but the same as Australia may be a bigger fraction of the world and Italy may be a lower. So, you don't see, but those things are happening. So, these allocations across countries, They are low turnover allocation, but they are moving slightly here and there. So the tilt towards the premiums that we're trying to deliver to the higher discount rates that we're having, I wouldn't expect that any dramatic change. And there is some discovery that will be worth speaking broadly.

45:49Makes sense. Eduardo, is there any hope for us Canadians that you guys are going to launch some ETFs for us here? I hope so. We're expanding. So I hope so. So I love going to Canada because Canadians think that I have an accent. They also think that Americans have an accent. So it's a level playing field for me. I remember being in conference and saying, well, you have an accent, you're the same as the other guy. So I love that. So I love going to Canada. So, yeah, no, no, we're seriously considering. We know that we have Canadian investors in our world. We know that not because we are selling to Canada, we can, But we know that because we look at custody records, and given we infer from the custody records that this money coming from Canadian investors, though we don't know who.

46:38And I think that for retirement monies, and you guys will know more than me, for retirement monies in Canada, U.S. based ETFs provide a very, very competitive product. in particular the US-based ETF that invests in US securities because you don't suffer withholding taxes. And so I think that that's where the money is coming. Advice of that are very, very clever and they say, or retail investors that are very knowledgeable, that listens to you guys or someone like that, that say, ah, I am not suffering withholding taxes by buying the US ETF versus buying the Canadian version of the ETF. So there you go.

47:18I buy these guys in the US. But yes, we have been looking into Canada. It's a new market. You need not only the ETF for the products, but you need all the infrastructure to support from the marketing point of view, the servicing point of view. You cannot say, I have a great chef and a good meal, but the service sucks. I don't have dishes, not knifings, and not porcelain knives. You have to have the whole offering. So we have been looking into that. I really hope we can get into Canada because there are so many places that are worth visiting in Canada. I love going there. Love it. Love to hear it.

47:51All right, Eduardo, this has been great. We really appreciate you coming back on. It's great to see you. It's always a pleasure. Thank you very much. Thank you for all what you do for all the investors all around the world. Yeah. Thanks Eduardo. Great to see you again. Thanks Eduardo. Bye.

48:09That was fun. Now it's the after show for the three of us. I must laugh. There's so many people, I know there's now more than three, it's probably up to what, five people that listen and they're pretty active on twitter about it pretty proud to be here so it's our private little club and there's always a joke on twitter about it afterwards it's always a joke yeah john stalking i think is our biggest after show fan he talks about it quite a bit a little bit too much it's kind of weird john yeah layoff was basically based on some reviews ben in the mids right mark that's right that's in the mids it's so funny because i've been playing a lot so my wife's away right now she took the kids to mexico for an extended vacation just happened to me a good time right like kids kids off school it's summertime my wife's not working right now just thought it'd be a great time for her to go and take the kids so i've been playing a lot of guitar so these guitars on my wall are not just for show people i actually play or i have been at least this week i was driving home the other day i was like i should start a band and then i was thinking about names for it and the first name that popped into my head was mark in the mids so we didn't even talk about that so no no no me too yeah and i just think it's a pretty catchy name but it also means i'm not mid i'm mark the other guys are mid so it kind of works in my favor as well so yeah exactly album coming soon so before we talk small cap it just kind of ties in with the miz let's read the recent review is that okay with you guys yeah who's gonna read it i'll read it so it came from three year long for the united states ben felix you heard it here first ben felix is a global treasure mark can we get ben to read this actually that's not even better idea.

49:36Ben, you read it. How's that? I just want to see him squirm. Ben Felix is a global treasure. Stop. Just pause. Let that sink in. Just appreciate it, Ben. This is the only podcast that gives honest, real analyzed financial information with a gentle dazzle of subtle dad humor. It truly is gold. Ben Felix is at the top of my and my husband's top hottest celebrity list. No one else has the courage to be this detailed and boring. Very unique review. That was great. That was great. I had a good laugh when I read that. Yeah. Ben and the mids. Yeah. So anyway, small cap value. Let's get back to your happy place.

50:17Yeah. It's done really well recently. It was like a record five day run, like historical record, at least for the Russell 2000. I just looked at the month to date return as of July 17th for AVUV. The Aventis US small cap value ETF. It's up month to date, July 17th, 8.85%, which is pretty incredible. Isn't small growth also doing well? I didn't just not look. On just the value side, right? I saw someone posted that. Small growth is doing pretty well also. Yeah. So I just looked at the Morningstar style boxes yesterday for the past month and both US small value and US small growth were up about 10 % over the month.

50:57Sorry, Ben. Not too bad. Over that same period, so a month to date, July 17th, VTI, just the Vanguard US total market ETF is up 2.82%. So very significant month to date premium. Now it's still trailing year to date. US large growth has been insane this year. So small value still has some catching up to do. But that short burst of positive returns from small value in an excess of large growth is always a reminder about the importance of staying in your seat if you want to capture risk premiums. And maybe think of, actually, Mark, you reminded me of this with the chart. Back in episode 147, we have Paul Merriman on.

51:37He talked about his, I don't know if it's his actually, it might've been Bogle's chart originally. Anyway, he talked about the telltale chart comparing US small cap value returns to S &P 500 returns. It's a neat chart that shows the relative performance of small cap value relative to the S &P 500. But what it basically shows visually is that small cap value going back to 1930, which is when the chart starts, has tended to have really long periods where it underperforms the S &P 500 and then relatively short bursts of outperformance. But on average, in the long run, small value outperforms, but it tends to happen in these short bursts.

52:13And then there are these long periods where you've got to kind of stay in your seat if you want to capture this. As a long-term investor, you end up being better off in small cap value eventually, but getting there requires enduring those periods of relative underperformance compared to something like the S &P 500. I pulled a quote from Paul back in that episode. He said, how many people are going to be able to stay the course when for 13 years, and there have been longer periods of underperformance, when for 13 years, their neighbor is bragging about how much money they're making in the S &P 500?

52:43That's what they're going to have to put up with. That's like - Now. Now. Hasn't changed. It's just as true as it was when Paul said that to us back in 2021. But anyway, this recent historic small value or small cap in general performance is just a good reminder that those returns tend to show up in short bursts and you got to be there if you want to capture them. I did also want to mention though that it's a year-to-date US small cap value is underperforming market. In Canada though, small value is doing quite well year-to-date. I looked at just year to date as of July 17th again, DFA Canadian Vector, which is a small cap value tilted Canadian equity strategy from Dimensional.

53:22It's up 13.91%. And then the Vanguard FTSE Canada all cap ETF, just a market cap weighted Canadian ETF is up 10.99%. Pretty meaningful. The Vector is not even a small cap value fund. It's just a more aggressively tilted toward small cap and value, but it's still more like a total market with aggressive tilts than it is a small cap value strategy. Anyway, it's done quite well year to date. Even over the last three years, it's outperformed. Yep. There it is. Small cap value. It's back. Sort of. Patience is rewarded. There's somebody I follow on Twitter. He goes by Jake and his handle is econompick.

53:58Instead of economic, it's econompick. You could follow, by the way. He puts out a lot of really interesting information, but he posted a chart this morning. It's the 30-day correlation between S &P market cap weighted benchmark versus the S &P equal weighted benchmark. So it's a rolling 30 day correlation matrix. It's the lowest it's been since 2006. The correlation between an equal weighted portfolio and a market cap weighted portfolio is like in the neighborhood of 0.25 over the past 30 days. So the tweet was hilarious. He's like, you could have essentially diversified your S &P 500 market cap weighted risk with S &P 500 equal weight risk because they haven't been moving at all in tandem.

54:39And it's a corollary to the small cap underperformance. Had you weighted differently to small value or even small caps in general, the performance has been incredibly different from large cap over the past 30 days. Yeah, that is interesting. Yeah. So you want to talk about one of your new friends on Twitter, Mark? Oh, yeah. One of your many friends. You've got energy for that stuff that is beyond me. It fires me up. I don't know. I think social media, like we know from looking at studies on this, that people turn to social media for advice. And there are a lot of finfluencers, if you want to call them that, putting out advice.

55:16And there's lots of good ones that have reasonable advice, but there's a lot of really, really bad ones. So I saw a post from somebody saying, why would you ever leave$100 ,000 in cash? didn't you know you can generate 1 % per week selling stock options on that? I was like, 1 % per week? Come on. Okay. So if you compound your money... It's compelling. Yeah. Well, of course it's compelling because it works out to a 68 % annualized compound return. And so I just quickly pull up a compound interest calculator. And I think I worked it out. It would take you 43 years starting at$100 ,000 to own all of the wealth on the planet.

55:51If you had that kind of compounding return for 43 years, starting with$100 ,000, you'd end up with$420 trillion in your back pocket. So you would like completely consume all of the capital in the world after 43 years of these types of returns. So anyways, he was talking about option selling. And I happen to know a decent amount about option selling. And so what I realized is a lot of these people talking about selling options for income are only considering half of their trade. And I won't get too deep into what I wrote about it. I think Ben, you and I decided we might just do this in a separate episode coming up.

56:20I wrote like a big rebuttal basically to why that is absolute nonsense. You shouldn't expect those types of returns. And it's funny, I had a couple of small hedge fund managers that run option strategies reach out to me by direct message saying, yeah, no, I've been doing this like systematically in a quantitative way for 18 years. If we can get 20 % consistently per year over a long period of time, like we are absolutely thrilled with that. So any amateur trader promising 1 % weekly return selling options, you can just ignore them with prejudice. That's kind of rent tech type returns. I think that is.

56:52And of course, that's the comparison they're going to make. If you say nobody can do it, they'll be like, well, somebody did. It's like, okay, but I don't think you're the next rent tech. So maybe you are. I don't know. They didn't do that selling options either. No, they did like 40 million trades a year, but I don't think they were selling options. Cool. Yep. We did an episode on covered calls a while ago. Same kind of idea. I think we talked about a lot of the issues you cover in your thread. Yeah. Yeah. The other strategy that people love is selling cash secured puts, which we'll get into in the episode because it can get fairly complex.

57:18But anyways, the tweet was just like a breakdown of how this works and why it's absurd to think that selling options can generate that type of return over the long run. It's not sustainable. And I tagged this individual saying, hey, like, here you go. When I commented on his post, he first said, sounds like you don't know how to sell options. I was like, well, okay, now I have to write a whole thing. And so I wrote the whole thing. And then I tagged him. And then he wrote back saying, sounds like you don't know how to sell options. I was like, dude, I just wrote 2000 words on selling options. What have you contributed here?

57:48So anyways, in these Twitter spots, I do it just because I think it's good for people to read that information to kind of counter the misinformation that's out there. Not because I agree. I just say you have energy. I don't have for that. Yeah. Your energy is impressive on that stuff. No, it's exhausting though. Anything else on your minds this week? It's like the small cap value premium. It comes in fits and spurts. This type of energy. All right. Anything else on your minds? Midsummer here. Nice weather. Yeah. I think we're good. Okay. All good, Mark? All good. alright thanks everybody for listening once again