163. Argo: Smuggled Out of Khomeini's Iran (Ep 4)

17:11Gordon:So that they don't have the full on prosthetics or anything like that. Corey Elijah, because they see this woman taken off, though, is becoming concerned because she's read an article in the Tehran papers a few weeks earlier about a woman who had been caught smuggling money in her body cavities. And so Corey Elijah is thinking, well, what if we're just randomly searched? You know, like what happens then? So by the time they reach the counter, the immigration officer has mysteriously disappeared. Scott. The group stands there for several minutes doing nothing. That's tense because you're just, again, what's going on?

17:46Gordon:We're just standing here. Are they onto us? Are they?

17:49David:Yeah, where is, where? What's happening?

17:50Gordon:After a few more minutes, they have their answer because the officer returns to his desk with a cup of tea that he has fixed for himself. Collects the passports, gives them their exit stamps, waves them through. He collects their yellow disembarkation forms. as he taps the edges of the stack down on the counter. One of them floats down to the floor. As they walk past, Vendez writes that he bent down and picked up the form, slipped it in with his papers, and later looking at it, he realizes it's Bob Anders' form. And so he's just walked off with the only physical record that a Robert Baker, total alias, was ever in Iran.

18:29Gordon:So they've made it through passport control, which is the hardest part, and they're at the gate.

18:35David:And then just as they sit down and get to the gate, you've got the final security check. You're in the kind of boarding room. You're getting ready to board. We all know that feeling. And then what's the worst announcement you can possibly get over the loudspeaker? Flight has mechanical problems. We've all heard it and been like, no. But do you imagine what it's like for them? Because, I mean, you must be so tense anyway, as well as hungover. but that's just going to compound it and compound the tension for them.

19:10Gordon:It's Murphy's law, isn't it? Everyone's, of course, anxious because what if the flight gets cancelled and then you have to come back and do this all again?

19:17David:Do it again.

19:18Gordon:And the Canadian embassy is closing so do you try to delay that a few days? You probably would have. I think that's probably not a huge factor but I mean, it's a piece of the puzzle. So they file back into the departure lounge. The problem, it turns out, is a faulty airspeed indicator which is going to take about an hour to fix. They discuss switching over to a British Airways flight but the bags already checked on Swiss Air and switching means pulling the bags off, rechecking them. I think as the day goes on the Revolutionary Guard presence is going to pick up at the airport. You want to get out on this flight if you can so they decide to wait it out.

19:55Gordon:It's agonizing. Sun's coming up, dawn breaks, departure lounge is filling up. now we have more rev guards circulating in the lounge. They're, you know, they're sort of getting tired, Venezuela's over time, of picking on or checking on Iranians. They're turning their attention to foreigners, addressing them in rough, broken English or in German. Now, Joe Stafford, who's bored and nervous, is reading a Persian-language newspaper.

20:26David:And they're like, okay, wait a minute.

20:28Gordon:what Canadian employee of Studio 6 Productions can read Persian. And so Stafford and Mendez seem to realize this at the same time, and Stafford kind of slowly puts the paper down. There is then some awkwardness at the duty-free shop.

20:45David:I love it. I'm sorry. They go to the duty-free shop. I mean, they can't wait for the booze, basically, the theme of this story.

20:55Gordon:No, no, no. Well, it is a theme. It's not booze, though, Gordon. Joe and Kathy Stafford have disappeared into the duty-free shop for several minutes. They come out with a sealed bag, and Joe comes up to Mendez and says, we would like you to have this as a token of our esteem. And it's a huge container of Iranian beluga caviar, which is not cheap. Mendez is kind of awkward. He understands the gesture, but it seems a little out of pattern to buy your production manager a huge container of caviar from a duty-free shop. I mean, I guess you could say they're all together as a group. We wanted to buy this as a souvenir of our time in Iran.

21:33Gordon:Anyhow, Mendez accepts. Then get the announcement that Swiss Air Flight 363 is ready to board, scramble onto the airport bus. It's going to take them out to the plane. And as they're climbing the stairs, the air stair to get up to the plane, Bob Anders kind of knocks Mendez at the arm. He says, you guys think of everything. and Anders is pointing up at the side of the plane and painted in big red letters near the nose is the name of the Canton in Switzerland where the actual aircraft is registered. I don't know exactly how you pronounce this, but it looks like Argo.

22:10David:Argao. Argao. A-A-R-G-A-U. Yeah. I mean, that's wild as a coincidence, isn't it?

22:18Gordon:It's an omen. It's an omen. So the plane rolls down the runway. it lifts off. Mendez is feeling euphoric. The wheels are up. They've still got a couple hours before they clear Iranian airspace. So you still do have to wait it out, grit it out a bit, because that plan could be asked to turn around. When the captain finally announces on the intercom that they've crossed into Turkish airspace, the cabin erupts into cheers. And it's not just the house guests. There's a bunch of other escaping Iranians on the flight who have presumably had their own tortured ordeals leaving the airport that morning.

22:55David:Although, sadly, none of them memorialized into movies. You wonder what the stories are. None of them quite as crazy as this. Well, it gives you a sense of how tense that airport would have been.

23:10Gordon:And that is something the film plays it up tremendously, which we'll talk about in our... which Gordon will rant about in his monologue on our Declassified Club episode. But the airport's a tense place and a high stakes place.

23:26David:I mean, I should say, I've flown out of Iran, out of that airport a couple of times. And I remember the last time I went out, I mean, it was friendlier times than now with Iran. But you're nervous when you go through it. You know, until you leave, you just think, well, what if someone's going to stop me and accuse me of being a spy and I'm suddenly going to end up in an Iranian jail cell? And that was me as a journalist during friendly times. So I think until you've actually, you know, the plane is flying and out of Iranian airspace, I think that is only the moment you can breathe out.

23:57Gordon:So what do you do when you get out of Iranian airspace? You wheel out the bar cart. Everyone has Bloody Marys. Starts working on another bender. Mendez raises his glass. Argo, he says, we're home free. Maybe there. Gordon, let's take a break. And when we come back, we'll see how the operation is not by any means over.

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27:28David:so david they are out they're out of iranian airspace uh not quite as it happens in the movie it's fair to say you don't have chases down the runway where was the chase scene where's my chase scene you promised me a chase scene we'll we'll deal with that question i think in our movie review if review is the right word um because there's quite a few things which happen in the film which which don't happen in real life and which are put in to kind of get the tension but i think it what is important is that they're out of the country out of iran but there are still things going on which are quite important and which are going to lead to the long-term legacy of this operation.

28:15David:I mean, one thing, I think it's interesting, isn't it? Back at the Canadian embassy, they are shutting up shop and they are smashing that commo equipment. And I love the fact that one of the last messages that the Canadians get from Ottawa before they smash up their covert equipment is, see you later, exfiltrator, which is a bit of a kind of telling message, but that's the one sent to the brave Canadians for who finishing off the mission. But back in Tehran, they're shutting up shop. But the story isn't quite over, is it?

28:54Gordon:No. The six Americans are out. They have descended from the plane in Zurich and joyfully stomped their feet on the tarmac. There's no one to meet them at the gate, which I think is great. They have to go through Swiss immigration controls on their alias passports. It's fine, no issues. As they come into the parking lot, there's a group of US State Department officials that suddenly approach and they snag the house guests, push them into a waiting van and drive them off to a mountain lodge in the Alps where they'll be fed pizza, given six packs of Heineken and informed that they can't yet contact their families to say they're safe.

29:33Gordon:Because again, you don't want retribution against the hostages in Tehran.

29:38David:And we should say that. It's important, isn't it? Is that the plan at this point was to try and keep the whole thing secret, wasn't it? Effectively.

29:45Gordon:And Mendez and Ed are left alone in the parking lot. Because they're not part of... Their job's done, right? They're not there to... They don't need to talk to the diplomats. Mendez writes that he realized he was freezing and he didn't have his coat anymore. And Ed is like, where's your coat? And Mendez says, I lent it to Joe. So Joe heads off with his coat. And it's, I think, actually, you wouldn't write it this way. Obviously, Ben Affleck didn't in the film. But this is the end of the operation for the CIT, right there in a parking lot in Zurich. But it's by no means the end of the story because how the story comes out and the pieces of it that are not shared for a long time is actually part of the story itself.

30:45Gordon:Because remember, the cover, the Studio 6 Argo production team cover, was at the time thought to be multi-use and could be helpful in a potential rescue of the other hostages. And so in particular, what Ed ends up doing is he goes, and over the course of that spring, takes classes in international finance and the entertainment industry. So he could potentially more credibly play another associate, an associate producer on another rescue of Americans out of Iran. So that operation, of course, comes to be known as Eagle Claw. Eagle Claw does not wind up using the Argo Studio 6 cover. But in January of 1980, nobody has any clue that that's how it's going to go down.

31:34Yeah.

31:35David:So it's so interesting, isn't it? The plan is to effectively keep this whole operation hidden, keep what's happened hidden, and wait until they can get the other hostages out at the very least before even revealing that the house guests are back in the United States, which must be weird for them because you think you've just escaped. The first thing you want to do is call your family and you're being told not to do it. So it must be pretty frustrating. but word we should say has got back to the white house and word is getting around hasn't it because you know back in tehran you know the canadians just before they shut up shop have sent word of the mission success to ottawa by cable and so even by this stage you know the president knows about it it's a big deal it's amazing how quickly it becomes clear that the u.s government won't be

32:28Gordon:able to keep the secret the plan to to do that to keep the house guests secluded in florida until the hostage crisis is resolved, lasts less than two days. Because on the 29th of January, a Canadian journalist named Jean Pelletier, who's the Washington bureau chief for La Presse, writes that the six are out of Iran.

32:50David:Yeah. And we should say that he is the journalist who we discussed previously in one of the earlier episodes, who'd worked it out earlier. And he'd worked out by the fact that there was a discrepancy in the number of American diplomats, and that the Canadians were kind of, you know, in the kind of political context, dropping hints that they were doing something to help the Americans. He'd worked it out and it had been agreed with his editor that they would hold the story until the hostages were safe. And, you know, he'd given the Canadian government his word that he wouldn't publish anything. And I think, you know, that's testament to a kind of responsible journalist who had agreed to that.

33:30David:You know, there's always pressure to get a scoop as a journalist, But there are times when they're a public safety or they're hostages situation where you do get asked, can you not report this or not yet or can you hold it? And he'd held it until now.

33:45Gordon:How would you have viewed his – from a journalistic perspective, how would you have viewed the decision to run a story before they had gotten out?

33:54David:So I remember as a journalist, you would particularly, people think you get censored and denoted and there's all this stuff about, you know, told that you can't report things. But the one time you do get asked sometimes not to report something is when you have a hostage situation. And particularly in the early period, normally, of a hostage situation where I would get a message or the BBC or someone would get a message saying, this is a very sensitive moment. we are trying to see if we can for instance negotiate a release or trying to maybe there's a rescue mission going on and publicity regarding that could endanger that person's life and you'd be a pretty crazy journalist to kind of go hey I'd rather have a scoop even if it endangers someone's life so I think that is something which almost all responsible journalists would do would sit on but then there's always that moment and I think we see it with this journalist as well where he learns on the 28th of January that the Canadian embassy is closing.

34:56David:And obviously he knows that that was the way most likely that these diplomats, American diplomats, were being sheltered. So he works it out and calls, he does what a journalist should do, which he calls the Canadian embassy in Washington for confirmation. And he's told they would like him to still wait uh but at that point he feels he's got the story so i think he's done i think what most people would say would be the responsible the correct thing which is wait but then you get to the point and you can be frustrated if you're you know cia because you'd like to have held it for longer i think it would have been hard to hold it for much longer if i'm being honest but there were lots of other people who knew about it lots of diplomats a lot of a lot of officials a lot of people in multiple countries.

35:44David:I think these stories don't stay secret for that long. So he goes with the story, and then within hours, it's out, isn't it?

35:52Gordon:What's so fascinating about the way the story breaks is that Pelletier, the Canadian journalist, doesn't have the CIA angle, though. When the story comes out, it's a Canada-centric, Canada-focused story about the effort to hide the houseguests and to exfiltrate them. So you don't have any of the cover stuff, the Mendez side of it, the fake film crew, the screenplay, John Chambers, none of that is in the initial round of reporting that comes out on the operation. And in fact, all of that remains classified until 1997. when President Clinton declassifies many of the details around that operation.

36:42Gordon:It's interesting to go back and look at the video reels of the pictures, because in the States, in the days after that story breaks, Canada's pretty cool, Gordon. We got maple leaf flags flying on private homes. There's billboards go up in Times Square that say, thank you, Canada.

37:00David:Can you imagine that today? It's unimaginable today.

37:03Gordon:It's absolutely unimaginable. The US House of Representatives passes a resolution thanking the Canadians. And your hero, Ambassador Ken Taylor, becomes an overnight celebrity. He's all over the place. He's awarded the Congressional Gold Medal in 1981 by President Reagan in the Rose Garden, sharing company with the Dalai Lama and Pope John Paul the second, which is quite kind of esteemed company. And John Chambers, the makeup artist who had helped Mendez set up the cover in Hollywood, takes out a full page ad in his local Burbank newspaper that reads, thanks, Canada, we needed that. And Mendez goes home to Maryland and like a good CIA ban doesn't tell anyone what he's done.

37:52David:At this point, Canada gets full credit. okay and i agree the cia does get written out the story for for for for good reason um but i think in a sense what you then get you then get it declassified as you said in 1997 and then eventually you'll get the film argo made 2012 in a way what you get is almost an over correction so at that time it's like this is 100 canada and then the cia bit gets revealed it's like it's 100 percent CIA when the reality as we know is somewhere more in between but it's interesting there's an interview with Jimmy Carter by none other than Piers Morgan which is comes out around the time of the Argo film coming out and it's so interesting because Jimmy Carter goes great film but the true story is it was 90 percent he says 90 percent Canadian which I think is a really actually feels even a bit high for me even with my pro canada hat on 90 seems a little bit high but it's like it in a way it's a shame because the the point you make which is that the cia bit is classified and then it gets declassified then people focus on that means that it's quite hard to ever get a really sensible balanced view of the contribution and maybe it's not something you should be rating in terms of percentages because the point is it's a great allied effort isn't it I mean, that is part of the point of this story, is rather than arguing about, as I have been.

39:25Gordon:As you have been, at the opening of every episode of the series, you have basically, it makes me wonder if you're taking Canadian money, Gordon.

39:34David:Is that an accusation that I'm on the payroll of Canadian CSIS? He's on the Canadian payroll. Agent of influence for the Canadian intelligence service. That's right, Gordon Carrera.

39:45Gordon:You're right that it is perhaps not even an interesting question to say, well, what percent of the operation was the Canadians and what was the, what was CIA? I think what's more interesting is looking at this as a case study in how a joint operation actually works, which when you have two services that are friendly with each other and there's some measure of trust and with their shared national interest, you have a division of labor around what makes sense for each service to do. If you peel this whole thing back, you say, okay, well, what does each side bring to the table here? After the embassy is taken, the Canadians have the presence in Tehran.

40:27Gordon:They have the diplomatic pouch that's going in and out that's so critical to this operation, because it's the way you get in all of the forged documents, right? The disguise kits, all this kind of stuff, instead of having to smuggle them through some rat line, which would be complex and take a lot of time, or airdrop, there's something wild. You just, the Canadians can send them in. The US doesn't have that at that point because the embassy's gone. That's hugely valuable. You have properties, Canadian diplomatic properties around Tehran that you're hiding people in. You have an ambassador in Ken Taylor who is able to kind of ring lead this thing from the Canadian side and advocate for a rescue and exfiltration to kind of pound the table and make it happen.

41:13Gordon:And then on the agency side, I think you have far more experience with exfiltrations, disguise, forgery, documents than the Canadians would have had. You have a real deep technical expertise inside OTS that Mendez and his team bring to this problem. And you have the deep connection in Hollywood to establish the plausible cover. So when you add all of these things up, you get a great picture of how it actually makes a ton of sense for a really big service like the CIA and a smaller service like the Canadians to partner with one another. because if we try to do something on our own and we bring 100 units of something and the Canadians bring 30, when you put both of them together, and I'm not saying that was the percentage on this operation, I'm just saying conceptually, the Canadians bring 30, when you put them both together, it's 130.

42:11Gordon:So that's what you want.

42:13David:Yeah, but it's also, it might be those 30 units are vital units which make it possible. Totally. I completely agree that actually this to me just shows the value of liaisons and partnerships and you know one country you know in five eyes or somewhere else can have access to a to a location to an agent you know to a platform to be able to do something and the other one may be able to to leverage that and the idea it's simply about size or experience it's not as simple as that is it in the intelligence game i think this is a really good example about about that i mean there are some other things which i think are really interesting um about it you know in terms of cover and trade craft aren't they could you do something

42:51Gordon:like this today no no no okay because you couldn't you wouldn't be able i would say at most global airports there would be you'd have to work under the presumption that there would be biometrics or biometric capabilities that would create an anomaly between the person standing there, their iris, fingerprint, whatever it might be, and what the document says, the passport. So that's a major problem that would have created issues in this. Another one is the backstopping is much harder in an era where you can look at someone's social media presence and say, okay, well, there's ways around this, but it's harder now because if Mendez was trying to do this today, he would have had to create a huge amount of kind of digital dust for these personas that would look credible if someone in Iran started to dig in.

44:02Gordon:well, Studio 6, what is that? Well, now there'd be a web presence. It wouldn't just be a couple ads in Variety and the Hollywood Reporter and a phone number that reaches an office on the old Columbia Productions lot. There would have to be a whole bunch of kind of digital trails that the Iranians could walk down to make it seem credible. And that's more challenging to build.

44:23David:Yeah. I mean, on a simple level, you'd go, well, what's the LinkedIn profile or what's the social media profile for the production manager or for the screenwriter what other things have they've done when was that profile set up i remember someone you know from mi6 it was in the 2000s when they started to realize the old ways of cover didn't work because they they actually started to run tests and they were they looked at it and they said the old ways we used to do a cover with a false passport how long would that work against a genuinely curious and capable uh you know border guard the equivalent of the border guards in the airport there who had access to Google.

45:00David:So the 2000s when Google is just starting. And the answer was it'd take about a minute to unwind the old ways of cover with just a bit of light Googling in those days. And that's even before you get to biometrics. So this does feel like something from a different era. But I take your point, which is that there are new ways of doing this, aren't there? And some of those are going to be secret, of building cover and deepening cover and of creating whether it's companies or productions or backstories for people which do make it possible but i guess it's just harder isn't it takes a lot more work than just some

45:34Gordon:stamps and some passports right and i i still think that those those talents this the kind of trade skills inside the caa are still there in in many respects it's just that it's harder um to manage cover now. One way that, one thread out of this story that you can pull forward to the present is, you know, there is still a group inside the CIA that's focused on disguise. You know, we call it getting programmed for a disguise. And the techniques, disguises have come a long, long way from the 70s and 80s. But it's interesting the way that the agency builds them today, the foundation for that are still techniques and technology that come out of the entertainment industry in Hollywood.

46:26David:Out of Hollywood.

46:26Gordon:So it's very similar to the way that the CIA absorbed techniques for prosthetics back when John Chambers and Tony Mendez were working together. And for a disguise, you're getting programmed for this by sitting in a chair kind of inside a cage. There's an array of maybe 50 or 60 cameras around you. Shots get taken from all angles and all different kinds of lighting. And then all of that is fed into a program that recommends a new face based on those photos. And so basically you can have masks that are sort of like Mission Impossible that are just pull on, but they're not particularly convincing because it's got gaps by the mouth and the eyes.

47:07Gordon:It's thin, it's fragile. So it's not convincing if you're going to sit in front of someone to talk. But there's another type of mask, which is very similar to what an actor would wear in Hollywood if they were in a sci-fi movie where it's like an additive process where they build pieces of silicone that essentially are adhered to your face. So you could have new chin, cheeks, forehead, neck, nose, dental appliances for new teeth, kind of puff out your mouth, all applied with a spirit gum and then covered with a custom makeup. And all of that stuff that's done inside the agency when there is still a need for disguise, which is increasingly rare, but there are still operational reasons to do it, is very similar to what's done in Hollywood.

47:49Gordon:So you still have that pipeline. going between the agencies, technical people in Hollywood that guys like John Chambers and Tony Mendez really built out in the 70s and 80s.

48:01David:So there's still that liaison. Because you sometimes hear about Hollywood liaison from CIA, which we often think about, and we talked about this right at the start, as being more about, can you influence the screenwriting side of things and the plots and make them accurate or less accurate or things like that. But I find it so interesting that it's actually the tradecraft side of things is is the other bit of that connection between hollywood and the cia and and which was there then with john chambers and must be still there now and you can imagine it in lots of ways with production design as well and and and and maybe it's going to get even more so with some of the things you can do with artificial intelligence some of the things you're going to create creating false identities or creating theater is something that spy agencies do as well as Hollywood.

48:47David:And Hollywood's got the money for it, frankly, and the experience. So why not tap into it?

48:51Gordon:I was going to end with a little coda about Tony Mendez, Gordon, but I'm afraid that you will then end on top of that with a rival coda about the Canadians. And I think your point on theater is maybe the right place to end this story because it is also, I think it's sort of this great irony. There's this feedback loop of Hollywood when feeding the agency and then also reflecting the agency back out into the world through the medium of film. I think that might be the place to end it and tease it as we prepare ourselves mentally, physically, and spiritually for Gordon Carrera's demolition of the film Argo in our episode for Declassified Club members.

49:35David:Ben Affleck, if you're listening, please, well, first of all, please join the club. You still have to pay for membership, even if you're Ben Affleck and then you can hear what I really think of Argo as can everyone else if you join up at the Declassified Club at the restisclassified.com where we're going to be talking a bit more about the film and yeah I think getting into not just the lack of realism of certain aspects of it but I think the story around the film is genuinely really interesting and what's in there and what's not and the reaction to the film including yes from Canada so a chance to listen to that you can also sign up for our newsletter which is free to everybody You don't need to be a club member, but you can do that at therestisclassified.com.

50:12David:But we hope you enjoyed the series and get that disguise on. And we'll see you next time.

50:18Gordon:We'll see you next time.

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