In short
The buildup to Alexander Litvinenko’s poisoning and murder in London, focusing on threats from Russia, his escalating anti-Putin activism, and the operational details of the plot.
Guest backgrounds
The episode is hosted by David McCloskey and Gordon Carrera, with recurring commentary attributed to “Marina” (likely Marina Litvinenko) and references to former KGB/KGB-linked dissidents and intelligence figures (e.g., Oleg Gordievsky, Vladimir Bukovsky) and authors (e.g., Luke Harding).
Key claims
Russian state pressure intensified after 2006 counterterror/extremism laws; Litvinenko was targeted as a “traitor” and MI6 access agent. His July 2006 “paedophile” accusation against Putin is framed as incendiary. After Anna Politkovskaya’s October 2006 murder, Litvinenko receives UK citizenship but is soon targeted again.
Notable examples
July 2006 Chechen Press article; Oct 7, 2006 Politkovskaya assassination; Oct 16–17 hotel stays by Andrei Lugovoy and Dmitry Kovtun (Best Western then Park’s Hotel); Oct 31–Nov 1 2006 Arsenal vs CSKA Moscow trip; Nov 1 meeting at Millennium Hotel Pine Bar where Litvinenko drinks a few sips of green tea from a teapot; Kovtun’s Hamburg conversation about an “expensive poison” and a London cook.
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Chapters
Tap a time to open that second in VOLitvinenko's Background and Conflict
0:25 to 2:27
Exploring Litvinenko's role in the UK and his growing conflict with Putin's allies.
“Well, welcome to The Rest is Classified.”
The Intensifying Threat to Litvinenko
2:34 to 3:41
Discussion on the increasing dangers Litvinenko faces as his situation escalates.
“The rest of Classified listeners also benefit from 10 % off HP business technology with code T-R-I-C-10.”
Litvinenko's Inflammatory Claims
3:41 to 5:32
Analysis of Litvinenko's controversial article accusing Putin of serious crimes.
“Last time we did look at a lot of the reasons why the Russian state had it in for him.”
Legal Changes and Their Implications
5:32 to 7:29
Discussing new Russian laws and their implications for dissenters like Litvinenko.
“It's kind of, it suggests he's moving in perhaps more, you know, he's always been quite obsessive, but he's becoming even more inflammatory in some ways.”
The Killing of Anna Politkovskaya
7:29 to 10:34
The impact of journalist Anna Politkovskaya's murder on Litvinenko.
“We know about poison-tipped umbrellas, don't we, David?”
Litvinenko's Citizenship and False Security
10:34 to 12:35
Litvinenko's feelings of safety after gaining UK citizenship amidst rising threats.
“just three days after that, his assassins will arrive on the first of what will become several trips.”
The Assassination Plot Begins
12:35 to 14:01
Detailing the arrival of Lugovoy and Kovtun in London and their initial attempt.
“Oysters, grilled lobster and tuna steaks.”
A Business Trip Gone Awry
14:01 to 18:46
Explore the peculiar itinerary of Lugovoy and Kovtun during their stay in London, mixing business with escapades.
“My usual table at Claridge's where I had breakfast most mornings.”
The Aftermath of Their Trip
18:47 to 21:32
Discussion on Lugovoy's hasty return to London and the implications of his actions.
“later on a ba flight this time but just alone without kovtun and he books uh for flights and hotels only the day before.”
Podcast Break Transition
21:46 to 22:37
A brief transition before the sponsor segment.
“Whether you're living abroad, paying someone overseas or just trying to manage your money across borders, you want a fair exchange rate, an easy transfer and no surprises along the way.”
Show all 15 chapters
Lugovoy's Return with Family
22:38 to 28:00
Lugovoy returns to London with family, raising questions about his intentions.
“Oh, and he's gone for a can of Pepsi too.”
Kovtun's Plan to Assassinate Litvinenko
28:00 to 30:00
Explore the details of Kovtun's communication about the assassination plot.
“So Kovtun has told a friend, I mean, he's in contact with this guy, but it's a friend who's in Hamburg.”
Lugovoy and Litvinenko's Meeting Arrangements
30:00 to 33:10
Learn about the events leading up to the crucial meeting between Lugovoy and Litvinenko.
“Lugovoy books his family on the big bus sightseeing tour of London at 10.26am.”
The Meeting at the Pine Bar
33:10 to 37:10
Delve into the tense meeting where Litvinenko is poisoned.
“Kovtun and Lugavoy, calling them to say he's on the way.”
Aftermath of the Poisoning
37:10 to 39:20
Follow Litvinenko's movements after the poisoning and the implications.
“And actually, the whole story could have been quite different.”
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:03Gordon:For exclusive interviews, bonus episodes, ad-free listening, early access to series, first look at live show tickets, a weekly newsletter, and discounted books, join the Declassified Club at therestisclassified.com.
0:24Gordon:Russian assassins are closing in on Alexander Litvinenko. But who will deal the fatal blow? Well, welcome to The Rest is Classified. I'm David McCloskey.
0:34David:And I'm Gordon Carrera.
0:35Gordon:And we are in the third episode of this series examining Alexander Litvinenko, former Russian FSB security service officer who is in London and is causing some problems for Putin and the people around him. And we spent a lot of the last time talking about Litvinenko's work in due diligence, examining Russian oligarchs officials for firms in the UK, how that put him in conflict with some Putin allies and sabotaged a business deal. It cost Putin allies money. We looked at Litvinenko's work as a consultant slash access agent for MI6. And we're now approaching October 2006 in what will become the last several weeks of Alexander Litvinenko's life.
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3:41David:Last time we did look at a lot of the reasons why the Russian state had it in for him. But what's interesting is once you get to this point, the intensity really starts to build of these different strands coming together. He's getting repeated messages and phone calls from Russia, sometimes passed through intermediaries, threatening him, telling him to come back, you know, warning him he's not safe. we talked about how the FSB views him as a traitor back to that famous press conference he gives I mean they even use pictures of Litvinenko for target practice at a special forces training center I find that really interesting well it does suggest he was pretty well known within the Russian security establishment as a hate figure if they're using his picture so you've got this sense of you know animosity he's becoming more vocal in his attacks on Putin under Berezovsky's patronage Berezovsky is getting more involved in plotting Putin's overthrow there's lots of plotting going on around him of which he's part of there's also little things which could also act as triggers we talked a bit about the personal antagonism that Litvinenko has about with Putin going back to that meeting in the FSB.
4:55David:Then in July 2006 Litvinenko publishes this article on the Chechen Press website. In fact, he's writing for that, tells you something as well. It's a really strange article. It couldn't have been more inflammatory or designed to antagonize Putin because it accuses President Putin of being a paedophile. I mean, it uses an incident where Putin kisses the stomach of a small boy publicly, you know, as he's kind of walking around and doing stuff and claims that, you know, this is a sign that he's a paedophile and this has been covered up. I mean, there is no evidence actually to support this. There is no basis for it.
5:31David:It's a really incendiary claim to make, I think. It's kind of, it suggests he's moving in perhaps more, you know, he's always been quite obsessive, but he's becoming even more inflammatory in some ways.
5:45Gordon:Well, Litvinenko is prone to conspiracy theories and conspiracy thinking. I mean, at one point, he had actually tried to blame the 7-7 bombings in 2005, which occurred at London, on the FSB. It made me wonder if he's, I mean, does it discredit him more broadly, these kind of wild claims? I don't know if it discredits him, but it's nuts, you know, to claim publicly that Putin's a pedophile.
6:13David:Yeah, he's becoming more obsessive, more antagonistic. I think he's drawn to trying to wake people up to Putin and to the FSB and making pretty outrageous claims to try and do that. Then, of course, there's the due diligence work. We talked about the business deal. So there's the work he's potentially doing with MI6, trying to tap up Lugovoy, his business partner in due diligence to work for MI6. Lugovoy's told the FSB. And at the same time, it's worth saying Russia is also changing. It's becoming more aggressive. Two big new laws get passed in Russia in 2006 in March and July. Now, ostensibly, they're about counterterrorism and extremism.
6:53David:And one particularly follows the killing of five Russian diplomats by a Chechen supporting terrorist group in Iraq. And their laws allow Russia to go after terrorists and extremists anywhere around the world. Now, the issue, of course, is who do you interpret? Who's a terrorist? Yeah, exactly.
7:11Gordon:You know, I guess seen from Russia a former FSB officer who's claiming that Putin's a pedophile and who's also working for MI6 and, you know, cratering business deals for your buddies. He's an extremist. He'd fit in that category if you're Putin.
7:28David:yeah so in july 2006 after the second law is passed the times newspaper in london publishes a letter written by vladimir bokowski who's a dissident talked about him earlier and ola gordievsky friend of the show former kgb officer and it's ahead of a meeting inst petersburg of the g8 where who putin's going to be there along with western leaders and you know these two russian exiles say the stage is set for any critic of putin's regime here especially meaning london especially those campaigning against Russian genocide, as they put it in Chechnya, to have an appointment with a poison-tipped umbrella.
8:06David:So these are people warning. We know about poison-tipped umbrellas, don't we, David? Well, not personally.
8:11Gordon:Not personally.
8:12David:No.
8:12Gordon:Not personally. Yes. Yes. Well, and what year was that?
8:16David:Late 70s. 78? Yeah. But this idea that Russians are capable of killing people, there's a warning there. And Marina says he, Alexander Litvinenko viewed these laws as a personal threat. So you can see that Litvinenko is becoming more aggressive, doing more things, and Russia's becoming more aggressive in its response. So now as we get to October, as the net is closing around him, and we're going to really dive quite deep into those final weeks, the first thing that happens is one of his own friends is killed. Anna Politskovkaya was a crusading Russian journalist on the Novoya Gazeta newspaper, which is an independent newspaper big critic of Putin she'd investigated FSB human rights abuses in Chechnya she's a friend of Litvinenko visits him in London she is shot by gunmen outside her Moscow apartment 7th of October 2006 and this really was a I mean it was a big deal I think for us journalists as well at the time because she was a kind of prominent campaigner you know investigator and just shot.
9:19David:And Litvinenko breaks down when he hears the news and he will believe Putin is responsible.
9:25Gordon:Well, October of 2006 is also a big month for Litvinenko because he's granted UK citizenship at a ceremony on the 13th of October. I think that when he came to London, I mean, he took his son to the tower and basically said, this country took you in and never forget never forget that the UK has saved us. He's flying an English flag from his home's balcony during the World Cup that summer.
9:54David:He's got British citizenship. It makes him very happy. Marina says he's very proud to be British, proud for his son to be British, and this was his future. Now, after the citizenship ceremony, I mean, he gives you a sense of the intensity of these days, just gets his citizenship. Then he goes to a memorial event in Westminster for Politskovkaya, the journalist and he takes his son Anatolia Long and he sees these other dissidents there his old friends and he says to one I just received my citizenship now they will not be able to touch me and to Bukowski he says it makes me more secure doesn't it it protects me and Bukowski answers I had to smile and say well not much not really I mean the tragedy is he's only you know he's just got his citizenship but he actually only has weeks left to live and just three days later
10:40Gordon:just three days after that, his assassins will arrive on the first of what will become several trips. So I guess worth at this point going back to Kovtun and Lugovoy, who arrive in London on the 16th of October. So just a few days after Litvinenko has been made a UK citizen.
11:03David:Yeah. And it's Kovtun's first time in London. Lugovoy's been there for these business meetings before they fly from Moscow to Gatwick Airport just south of London arrive 10 48 a.m a policeman interesting enough a policeman thinks they look suspicious and actually questions them and remembers them being evasive but they give a phone number for business meetings they've got which checks out so he does you know this police officer it's kind of impressive in a way that he just thinks they're suspicious and they're eventually allowed to go in there's not much you can do they're going to stay at the best western in shaftesbury avenue 300 pounds a night back in 2006 i mean not cheap london hotels um but the details i mean we we have really granular detail about this i think it's really worth going into it because it gives a sense of what's going on and and the the details the mechanics of the plot they change into some business clothes on arrival at the hotel which which the staff think look very russian shiny suits and big chunky jewelry i think they look like the russian mob basically then that afternoon they meet litvinenko and one of these business due diligence contacts at the boardroom they're discussing the possible deal with gazprom the room's not very big room for about six chairs or so tea and coffee on the table lugovoy suggests litvinenko and others have a drink seems quite insistent and we will come back later to evidence the police will find that the russians did try and poison litbanyanko at this meeting at this moment but the problem is he doesn't drink anything so it's the first attempt and it's a miss after that three russians go to itzu ever been to itzu sushi place it's like a chain sushi place and piccadilly and this is also this particular itzu sushi place is going to be an important scene for the investigation so it's worth remembering that.
13:01David:Litvinenko then goes home. Marina had prepared spicy chicken soup for dinner Litvinenko liked hot food and he ate the soup with some hot peppers but then sometime after the meal he starts to feel a little bit ill and he vomits, throws up his food but just once and Marina will say he continued to feel a little bit unwell for the next two days but not that bad so you know, a bit of an upset stomach Lugovor and Kovtun though Go out for dinner. Fancy place in Mayfair. Oysters, grilled lobster and tuna steaks. It's a Claridge's, Gordon. Did they go to Claridge's? I don't think they're quite in your category, David.
13:37David:They're not quite as... Gordon, Gordon. No, no, no.
13:40Gordon:Don't try to besmirch me in this way. You and I... One of our... Well, our first breakfast in London. Our first meeting in London.
13:49David:Before even the podcast. Long before it. Long before the...
13:52Gordon:When the podcast was just a twinkle in Goalhanger's collective eye of Sauron eye. That's right. We had breakfast at Claridge's. My usual table at Claridge's where I had breakfast most mornings. Yeah. Mr. Carrera again. Mr. Carrera is here. Here to do business at Claridge's. But so Lugovoy and Koftum, we don't... Where do they go at Mayfair? Do we know?
14:14David:I'm not sure. I could probably find the name of the restaurant. It's a fancy place. Oysters, grilled lobster and tuna steaks. Pretty good. Then they go to a bar and they buy a shisha pipe at a bar. It's another kind of Russian mobster thing to do. No offense to anyone out there who has shisha pipes.
14:29Gordon:No offense to the Russian mobsters who obviously listen to the rest of the class.
14:32David:No, I meant the general listeners who might have one of those. So that's that day, their first day there. Next day, Tuesday 17th. This is where it also gets interesting when you get to the detail. The detail is so interesting. because Lugumoy and Kovtun move from the best Western hotel to the Parks Hotel in Knightsbridge for the second of their two nights. Now, this is even though they'd booked for two nights at the first hotel and they paid for it and they don't ask for a refund. Hmm. And this will later be thought to be because they'd contaminated the room with a poison. They'd potentially poured it down the sink and they were like, I don't think we want to stay here for another night.
15:12David:and so that looks to be why they suddenly move so here they are new new hotel uh they meet a businessman who they're doing some work for uh they meet lividenko again at the offices of risk one of the due diligence firms they're working on this vodka case then the three of them go back to the parks hotel where the two visitors are staying go to dinner at a chinese restaurant named the golden dragon say i've got one restaurant name in never been i don't know if i've been there in Gerrard Street. I don't know if they're one of our sponsors, but anyways.
15:42Gordon:Well, after this podcast, definitely not. Definitely not.
15:45David:I don't think we get sponsorship from Itzu either. They then go to Cafe Bohem, a bar in Soho. Litvinenko here says he only drinks green tea and a glass of Coke at the restaurant, but he says the other two have been drinking. He'd been offered some, but he refuses. Goes into a bar, doesn't like it. He's home by 11.
Read the full transcript
16:04Gordon:Litvinenko sounds like he's not a very, he's not having a lot of fun with these guys.
16:08David:I think what's happening is, and we'll come back to these guys, these guys are like, we're in London from Moscow, it's party time. And his wife's at home, his son's at home, he's a family man. It's like, I don't want to do this. I've got to do a bit of it with the business guys. You know, I mean, we all know those business meetings where someone is out for a good time. And you're like, I just want to go home to bed. I just think it's time to go home.
16:29Gordon:I mean, it also sounds like Covtoon and Lugovoy, as we've gone through their itinerary, they haven't been working very hard. Let's be honest. I mean, they've mostly been drinking and eating out.
16:41David:And this is the next detail. It's great because Lugovoy earlier in the day had asked at this hotel reception for a recommendation for a place where he and Kovtun could meet girls. Now, the receptionist suggests a place across the road, which was a brothel. I think the receptionist knows exactly what these two Russians are after. And also, and this is one of those details, which is just nuts, a particular Italian pizza restaurant where the receptionist says you can have pizza with extras. and I don't know but when I'm asking for extras on my pizza it's anchovies normally or maybe olives
17:19Gordon:you're not normally led to a back room of the of the pizza shop but this is an Italian pizza restaurant that is also with extras a brothel yeah but then instead they don't go to that place
17:31David:uh because look at Lugavoy and Coffey now go to a bar called Hey Joe which I think is what is called a gentleman's club, David, a gentleman's club. Is that what you call them in the UK? Yeah, but not the gentleman's club of like, you know, the reformed... Travellers. Travellers. Yeah, not that. This is a particular type of gentleman's club, which I learned reading, you know, the reports into this, had mirrors, dance floors, and cubicles. And supposedly, this detail, I should say, comes from Luke Harding's book, A Very Expensive poison because i've never been to hey joe's just just to clarify that because hey joe's also included a bronze phallus somewhere and a penis shaped tap in the bathroom this is a different world from our our normal world but these guys they go to hey joe's and they get back to the hotel at 3 a.m 10 a.m the next morning they check out and head back to us what a business trip they've
18:24Gordon:had what a business trip i mean these guys i just just to sum it up what they have done over this three-day run is uh uh gentlemen's clubs drinking eating out and attempted murder and then and then they go home hungover to bosco after sleeping for you know three hours i mean what a trip
18:46David:what a trip and not the last trip they will take because lugovoy is going to return just a week later on a ba flight this time but just alone without kovtun and he books uh for flights and hotels only the day before. So this is interesting because this isn't clearly a pre-planned business trip. He's doing it in a hurry. Perhaps one could surmise because they didn't manage to achieve what they really wanted to achieve on the first business trip. So he's going to book into room 848 of the Sheraton Hotel. He meets a Georgian businessman in Surrey who is a friend of Berezovsky and who'd co-run the TV channel where he worked.
19:22David:As a footnote, this Georgian businessman, Badri Patakatshishvili, is found dead later in 2008. Maybe a heart attack, maybe not. Who knows? But another one of those. If you're keeping count, it's another one of those people we meet who ends up dead. Lugovoy also sees Berezovsky during this trip. In fact, he sees Berezovsky in person. I think it's interesting. Suggests, you know, they're still close, goes shopping, has some business meeting, meets Litvinenko at his hotel bar, early evening of the 27th. Litvinenko drinks tea, Lugovoy red wine. They discuss the plan for Lugovoy to come with Litvinenko to Spain in November to do this work on the Russian mafia in Spain and bring down the Russian mafia.
20:02David:It's all kind of interesting. Now, here's what's interesting. At this point, there's no sign, no evidence that Lugovoy tried to poison Litvinenko when they're drinking together. And the reason, and we'll come back to the evidence for this later, because it looks like something's gone wrong for Lugovoy. it looks like he may have spilled the poison he's using in the bathroom at the hotel in which he's staying come back to the future how he does it and so it means it's another fail you know the trip is over he's going to go back to moscow having failed to do it it's going to need to
20:38Gordon:come back again well we'll come back to this poison spill like i just it just feels insane to me that the most valuable thing you've brought with you on the trip you're like it's like inspector clues out like what you just spill the thing in the bathroom yeah it just it's remarkable
20:51David:it's remarkable and i find it interesting with little boy and cartoon because there's an element of clownishness and you know with their you know phallus clubs and gentlemen's clubs and you know and spilling poison and yet as we'll see that the guy's a killer i mean allegedly allegedly okay allegedly sorry good job yeah yeah that covered me legally but you know that's the thing. It's this weird mix. And I think you often see it with these Russian cases, don't you, where they're both kind of clownish. We'll see it again with the, you know, other poisonings in the future and dangerous. And that's these guys.
21:27David:So two attempts, kind of attempts, one more still to come. So there, let's take a break. And when we come back, we'll look at the crucial day that leads to Alexander Litvinenko's death. Hi, this is Garolinica from Goalhangers. The rest is football. This episode is brought to you by WISE. It's only when you start moving money between currencies that you really think about the exchange rate, the fee and what might be hidden away in the small print. Whether you're living abroad, paying someone overseas or just trying to manage your money across borders, you want a fair exchange rate, an easy transfer and no surprises along the way.
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22:37Gordon:And we're live on match day as Doug reaches for a buffalo wing. He's got it. Oh, and he's gone for a can of Pepsi too. What a finish. There's no doubt about it. It just tastes better. Match days deserve Pepsi.
22:56Gordon:Welcome back. It's the 31st of October 2006, and Lugovoy has returned to London with his wife, two daughters, an eight-year-old son in tow, as well as a few friends for what else, Gordon, but a football match. And this is Arsenal versus CSKA Moscow. Is that right? Yeah. You a big fan of the Arsenal? No, they're Bin Laden's team though, right?
23:23David:They are. And Keir Starmer. And Keir Starmer, yeah. Lugovoy is also, well, he's a CSKA Moscow fan.
23:30Gordon:He's not an Arsenal fan.
23:31David:He's not with Bin Laden and Keir Starmer in the stands. That's right. Now, this is interesting, I think, because he's here with his family. He's here with his daughters, his son, also some friends, and they planned this holiday. But at the very last minute, Kovtun is added to the trip. at the very last minute. The decision to bring Kovtun is taken midway during Lugervoy's previous stay when he's at this hotel where he spills the poison. Hmm. Now, does that seem suspicious to you? I mean, halfway through a trip in which you may have spilled some poison, you go, I might need you to come for the next trip.
24:10David:I'm coming next week. Come along. I mean, you can see when you look at it in hindsight, what's going on there, can't you?
24:16Gordon:you can there's also this is making me think that there there is a set of interactions that we're not going to be able to talk about because i don't think anyone has ever unearthed any evidence around them which is the interaction between lugavoy and kovtun and the supplier of the poison yeah in russia i agree who is who is probably like these guys again spilling the poison they keep coming back yeah we have a failed attempt we have i i wonder what lugavoy told them it happened on the trip where he had spilled the poison because i'm gonna guess he
24:47David:didn't admit to spilling the poison no i agree in the in the bathroom i would like to see that
24:53Gordon:see that interaction now wonder how that went down so i think you know the likelihood is he
24:58David:spilt it on the second trip and he now realizes this social trip with his family is going to have to be another murder attempt and it'll help to have kovtun coming along kovtun comes up with all kinds of weird stories that he's coming to london by chance or that there's a business meeting it's very confusing but you know uh the assumption is that he's been asked now this is where it gets also very interesting with kovtun because what's he been doing and this is you know another wild bit of the story kovtun has been in hamburg and he flew there on october the 26th and something very interesting happens here according to german police who investigate it later kovtun is there to see his ex-wife and kids but during it we talked about he used to work at this restaurant this place called il porto and uh he get one of the people he worked with as a waiter at il porto in the mid 90s which is in the harbor area of hamburg he gets in touch with them they kept in touch after they both left they meet up to play chess interesting enough have a beer kovtun telephones him on monday october the 30th and asks if they could meet they go for a walk after eating.
26:07David:And I mean, this is wild. Do you want to read this bit?
26:10Gordon:Yeah, sure. This is from his friend who's recalling the meeting with Litvinenko in Hamburg. Dmitry asked whether I knew Litvinenko or had heard of him. I answered no. Dmitry said word for word, quote, Litvinenko was a traitor. There is blood on his hands. I went on to say that Litvinenko does deals with Chechnya, and then he asked me whether I knew a cook who was working at London. And then he tells him a name, which has been anonymized as C2. It's Witness C2, who was a cook at Il Porto who had gone to England. And he goes on to say, I cannot remember the exact words. Dmitri said that he had a very expensive poison and needed the cook to administer it to Litvinenko.
26:57Gordon:I cannot remember whether Dmitri said he had the poison. I did not take seriously what Dmitri said. I thought it was just talk. And then the friend is later asked by German police to remember the exact details, and he says this. Kovtun said, I need this cook to put poison in Litvinenko's food or drink. He also said the poison is very expensive. As I have said already, I did not take him seriously. I said to him he was crazy. It would be much easier to shoot Litvinenko. I said jokingly. Kovtun said after that, it is meant to set an example. I answered that he should stop this nonsense.
27:35David:I mean, Kovtun, we should say, will dispute this. And also the witness will not be willing to repeat it when asked to testify because they don't want to get involved in it for reasons you can kind of understand. But it's a wild conversation. I mean, you know, you're basically, I mean, you're basically giving away what you're trying to do there. And I mean, Kovtun, I mean, again, it's this kind of sense, slightly idiocy of Kovtun to just tell this other waiter.
28:02Gordon:So Kovtun has told a friend, I mean, he's in contact with this guy, but it's a friend who's in Hamburg. So he's not like a super close associate. Kovtun has basically said, there's a hit out on this guy. I'm in charge of the poison. Do you know someone in London who will help me administer it?
28:23David:Yeah.
28:25Gordon:It's really, from an operational security standpoint, an unwise thing to do.
28:33David:It doesn't take a former CIA officer to tell me that that is bad tradecraft. It's bad. I think that's bad tradecraft, telling random former waiters about your plot to assassinate someone with a very expensive poison. And so he's given the name of this chef who's supposedly an Albanian in London. Kovtun then heads straight from Hamburg to London. He gets an early flight, 6.30 a.m. He goes to the hotel to meet Lugovoy. Now, this hotel is interesting as well because Lugovoy and his family are staying at this place called the Millennium Hotel, which is on one side of Grosvenor Square just across from what was then the U.S.
29:12David:Embassy. David, you must have been there.
29:13Gordon:I've stayed at the Millennium Hotel.
29:15David:Oh, have you?
29:16Gordon:I have. Wow. Yes, yes. I stayed there on a liaison trip to visit with British counterparts. It was years, of course, later than this. Yeah. Because the embassy was just literally at the stone's throw.
29:30David:Yeah. From where it used to be. Yeah. So, you know, all of this is happening and will happen, as we'll see, in the shadow of the U.S. embassy. It's interesting. Lugovoy is going to call Litvinenko, trying to arrange a meeting. Kovtun's arrived. He's not actually even got his own room. He's sharing with one of Lugovoy's friends, which, again, is a bit weird.
29:47Gordon:They're all there for the football match, right?
29:50David:And then suddenly, Kovatun at the last minute has pitched up. So they're like, okay, you stay with this other guy. So now we come to the day, the crucial day, November the 1st, 2006. Lugovoy. Lugovoy books his family on the big bus sightseeing tour of London at 10.26am. I mean, it's again, these details are just bizarre, aren't they? Got to get him out of the way, I guess, one way.
30:12Gordon:Yeah, exactly. He needs an activity to get everyone out of his way for a few hours.
30:17David:He's going to meet Kovtun. They're going to call Berezovsky. They're going to go to some business meetings in the morning. They're going to call the chef. So this Albanian chef who El Porto, Kovtun, has been connected to, but to see if he can meet up. But he's busy. He's out in Stratford, way out in East London. He's busy. They say, OK, we'll call you back. But this is interesting because already the plan of kind of getting this chef involved is falling apart because he's busy. And immediately after they call the chef, Lugovoy calls Litvinenko. It's close to midday. And Lugovoy will later claim that it was Litvinenko which called him, but the phone records show they're calling Litvinenko.
31:00David:And it looks like they'd originally planned to meet the next day, but Lugovoy is asking to bring the meeting forward. Maybe it's they've got no chef. You know, having a problem getting a chef, they're going to do it themselves. themselves. Litvinenko had been at home that day. He heads into town. First, he meets a boss from one of the due diligence companies. But then he gets an unexpected call from our friend Mario Scaramilla. Remember him from earlier on? So the guy who was working on the Italian Matrokin Commission, the consultant there. And Scaramilla says he wants to meet urgently. A little bit suspicious.
31:38David:He wants to meet right now, that afternoon, today. So he and Litvinenko meet at Piccadilly Circus. And Scaramillo always likes a bit of a spy trade craft. He's one of those people. But he's much more nervous than usual. Some might think suspiciously nervous. Let's eat, the Italian says. So they go to Itzu. Itzu sushi place. The same sushi place at 3pm for half an hour. Now, this meeting is fascinating because Scaramillo's handing over some documents, but he's also passing on news he's had from a contact. And the news is that there is a hit list of people who are thought to be enemies of Russia who are going to be eliminated.
32:19David:And Scaramillo's source has told him that the killings have already started. And Ala Polotskovkaya was one of those on the list. And of course, we were talking about the fact she had been just killed a few weeks earlier. Scaramella says his name is on this hit list. Boris Berezovsky is on this hit list. And so is Litvinenko. And Scaramella says some people might be shot and some people might be poisoned with radioactive thallium. Scaramella has been told. He is really worried and he's telling Litvinenko to warn him. I mean, it's a weird, interesting coincidence, but somehow word is getting around.
33:04David:But Litvinenko seems to think, well, I'm always getting warnings. Who knows?
33:09Gordon:So right after this warning, what Litvinenko then does is he heads to meet the poisoners, Kovtun and Lugavoy, calling them to say he's on the way. Now, Kovtun and Lugavoy have gotten back at their hotel. It's around 3 p.m. And at 3.30, there's CCTV footage of the two of them, of Cobbton and Lugavoy, going separately to the toilets by reception at the Millennium Hotel.
33:37David:And then at four o 'clock, Litvinenko arrives. We're going to go into this in real detail because it's important. Lugavoy approaches Litvinenko in reception and says, we're meeting at the bar. And he takes him over to the Pine Bar, which is the kind of wood panel bar just next to reception. I don't know if you drank there, David, in your time. Maybe, maybe not.
33:58Gordon:I don't remember it. I don't remember it. Maybe by this point there was a warning to not go to the Pine Bar because of what happened. Washing out the pipes.
34:07David:One interesting fact is there are CCTV cameras everywhere in this hotel, all around reception, none in the Pine Bar. Pine Bar's crowded. there are two small tables pulled together in reception and Lugovoy guides Litvinenko to these tables now Kovtun is initially away on the phone Litvinenko sits opposite Lugovoy kind of diagonally opposite Lugovoy had been there for a while already and had ordered drinks and he'll end up racking up more than a 70 pound bill covering cigars and champagne cocktails it's back to the fancy lifestyle it's not claridge's money but it's you know it's not
34:53Gordon:nothing to sniff at either don't you have you have the receipt though right so the receipt for that
34:58David:table was three teas three gordon's gin and three tonics to go with it one champagne cocktail one Romeo and Julieta cigar and number 11 Gordon's gin. Looks like the total bill was£70.60. So they begin talking about a business meeting they're going to have the next day. Lugovoy's in a rush because he needs to get to the football with his family. Says he doesn't have long. A waiter comes over the table. Lugovoy says to Litvinenko, if you want to order something for yourself then you can but we're leaving soon. There's still some tea left here though and Lugovoy indicates a teapot, which is already on the table.
35:37David:And there'd been an order for green tea with lemon and honey, which is Litvinenko's drink, basically. And the tea had been made in this large white porcelain pot behind the bar, but it's always left to customers to pour out. Lugovoy doesn't seem to push Litvinenko to drink it. Seems quite laid back about it, which is interesting, isn't it? He's not like going, have some tea, which I guess you wouldn't, would you? Well, and they've already kind of pushed some drinks on him in earlier visits.
36:04Gordon:So they're probably thinking, let's not do that again. It is also interesting because I don't think of either Lugovoy or Kovtun as tea drinkers. And yet they've got this pot of tea because they know that Litvinenko is.
36:17David:It is kind of, I think, smart what they're doing because they've said they've got to go soon. So there's probably not time to order something. If Litvinenko orders something, he's probably worried, I'm then going to have to pay the bill. And it's expensive. So, you know, you don't want to get caught with a bill if you're Litvinenko. So he's kind of thinking, oh, well, you know, it's fine. They're talking about the plan that they're going to go to Spain together. Lugovoy and Litvinenko. And Litvinenko, as they're talking, pours out about half a cup of green tea. There wasn't much left in the pot, which suggests maybe it had been drunk, whatever.
36:50David:But he doesn't see anyone else drink from the same pot. Now, the tea is already cold, and he also normally has it with sugar. So he has a few sips, maybe three or four sips, and that's it. It just doesn't taste that nice because it's cold and it's not sweet enough. Interestingly enough, if he'd have more, then the long-drawn-out death, which he's going to face, would have been much quicker. And actually, the whole story could have been quite different. No one else drinks from the pot. Kovtun comes back to the table. Just before 4.30, Lugovoy's friends and his wife and kids turn up in the lobby of the hotel.
37:28David:The lobby is right next to the bar. The wife waves. And then something really odd happens. Lugovoy brings his eight-year-old son over to Litvinenko and says, this is Uncle Sasha. Sasha being the kind of name for Alexander. under the diminutive, shake his hand. They shake hands and the boy leaves. Interesting, isn't it?
37:53Gordon:I would not have, probably wouldn't have asked my eight-year-old son to shake the hand of the guy I just poisoned with an exceptionally powerful and radioactive poison. But, you know, I don't know. Maybe I'm an overly protective father, Gordon. That just doesn't seem, it seems odd. I guess it suggests that Compton and Lugovoy maybe don't understand what sort of poison they've been given.
38:18David:I think that feels right to me. I think they think it's something you're going to, I mean, they're right. It's something you put in a drink that you're going to ingest, but I don't think they understand its radioactivity and therefore that there's a risk of wider contamination because otherwise you just wouldn't do it. You wouldn't bring your son over. But they have this encounter around 4.30, so about after half an hour or so, in this pine bar, Litvinenko leaves. Litvinenko then goes to Berezovsky's office on Down Street, actually the same one I visited four years earlier, maybe to show him the documents that Scaramillo has given him, you know, all the stuff about plots, because of course there's plots against Berezovsky's life, as well as Litvinenko's, according to Scaramillo.
39:06David:And then Ahmed Zakhaev, the Chechen friend of them both, will drive Litvinenko home that evening back to North London. He doesn't know it, but he's now a dead man walking.
39:18Gordon:Well, Gordon, there with the soon-to-be fatal radioactive poison delivered to Litvinenko in that teapot, let's end this episode. When we come back next time, we'll see how the really horrific and drawn-out process of his death unfolds and what it says about the regime of Vladimir Putin. Of course, if you don't want to wait, don't wait. Go and join the Declassified Club at therestisclassified.com, where you'll get early access to all of the episodes in this series, including the bonus episodes we'll be doing. We'll be talking with some very interesting guests, including a police officer who was heavily involved in the investigation into Litvinenko's murder.
40:10Gordon:We'll see you next time. See you next time. Thank you.
From the publisher
Russian assassins are closing in on Alexander Litvinenko… But who will deal the fatal blow?
Listen as David and Gordon explore the dramatic moments leading up to the murder of Alexander Litvinenko in London.
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