Fabian Hürzeler: The Youngest Ever Premier League Manager

27:35So 100 % I think like I said for me being a leader is not about age or being a leader is not about in which area you're working I think it's really about that's what I always try to do as a leader and that's why I think other businesses might work because in football we don't speak so much about culture and environment and me as a leader, my idea and my conviction is like I don't want to control the players I want to build an environment and I want to build a culture where players can express themselves and where players get the best out of themselves. And that's for me what a leader has to do.

28:12Not to put himself in the spotlight, but to really make the others shine beside him. Not only a staff member or a player, you need to make sure that they are in the right environment, in a safe space where they can express themselves. And that's why I think in other areas, in other businesses, there are also young leaders, because their culture and environment might be higher value than it's sometimes in football.

28:41This episode is brought to you by Guinness. With the Premier League kicking off again, it's time to restart those pre-match rituals. Well, I started mine first day of the season. I had to have a pint of Guinness in the house and then taxi picked me up into town, into my mate's bar, Harry's, couple of pints of Guinness again, and then walked to the cathedral on the hill. beautiful absolutely perfect my pre-podcast routine is a Guinness so there you go there it is about you Micah you know what I wasn't drinking alcohol for a year but I was drinking Guinness Zero lovely job whether you're at home or the pub Guinness and Guinness Zero are the perfect pre-match pints match day is always a lovely day for a Guinness official beer and non-alcoholic beer of the Premier League.

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30:46Was it a surprise to you when Brighton came in? You'd done really well at St. Paul. You got the promotion bar winning the league and you were doing okay in the Bundesliga. Did it surprise you that a Premier League club would come in? Yeah, I think being such a young manager in this time and I had one and a half great season with St Pauli, we made this promotion. It's not that you expect going into the Premier League, but when I have this phone call, I was like, of course, surprised. But yeah, it was Paul Baba. And therefore, It was really like, immediately this feeling, I didn't want to leave St.

31:32Pauli, but I had a great time there. But it was like this feeling inside of me, and I'm a person, I always decide regarding my stomach, was the feeling, yeah, that's a nice challenge. I want to go for this challenge. And I'm always that guy, I want to step out from the comfort zone. So I want to make the next step. I want to get to know myself better. I want to grow as a person, of course, also as a manager. And of course, like St. Pauli was a great time. I was so grateful for the chance I got there, grateful for the time I had with the team, with the fans. But I'm always this guy, it might be too much comfort zone then, so I wanted to leave this comfort zone and go for a new challenge.

32:08And I think when I looked back, it was definitely a big challenge and the right challenge for me. And I learned so many things during these two years now. I grow as a person, I grow as a manager, and I could really shape myself and it's important. What was the biggest surprise when you joined? The intensity. The intensity from the Premier League. But the Bundesliga is pretty intense, isn't it? It's definitely also intense, but what I mean with the intensity is, every weekend you face a good opponent. So there's not a little... Greater depth. Yeah, it's not like there's such a difference. And the second thing, you face really good managers here in the Premier League.

32:48They're all managers, they exactly know what they do, they're all managers, have a great style of play, and they make it so difficult to beat you. And then off top of that, they just have good individual quality. So no matter where you go, let's say last season, you went to Sunderland, you think they just got promoted. They played an incredible season. You go there, it's a tough place. Like the fans, their style of play, the players they have on the pitch, like it's just so good. And that's why I think what really surprised me was the intensity of every game. And this like, it's unpredictable.

33:19Like small matches make such a big difference. Small margins regarding do the block right or not in a set piece, you concede a goal or not. You lose your man in the back, you concede a goal. You don't defend one against one well, you concede a goal. So these small little margins make such a big difference in the Premier League and that's why I use this word intensity, what surprised me the most, because these things I just described really affected me at the beginning. I suppose it brings us also to the fact that Brighton went for a young coach like yourself to the data and the cleverness. What's Brighton's secret in terms of the data and all that?

33:57You don't want to give too much away, probably. But the secret, I don't know, because it's from the owner. It's from Tony here. The special recruitment system. But for me, it's very important to emphasize, like, Brighton is known for the good recruitment. But for me, it's very important that it's not only recruitment. What we do here is really develop. So we try to develop staff member because I'm convinced if the staff members get better in challenging and supporting the players, the players get better. But, and on top of that, we also want to develop the players. And how to develop players, I think you need what we spoke about, identity.

34:34You need also what is so important for me, like a core, a strong core in the group. And we always had this core, for example, last season we had this core with James Milner, with Danny Welbeck, with Louis Dunk, Jason Steele, Pascal Gross came. They built this core and these players, they're role models for the young players. So you need these kind of players who are leading by example and who build this culture together with me. So that's why I think the system for Brighton or the way from Brighton is very important. Of course the recruitment is really good. Of course we want to develop young players.

35:07Of course we want to develop staff members. But the key bit for me is really alignment. alignment between me, the medicals, the nutritionist, the analyst. So every department is really aligned with the vision. Every department is so clear about our identity, where we want to go. And I think that's like a red line that goes through the whole club. It starts with the owner, with the CEO, with me, with every department here in this building. And for me, I don't care if you are a cleaner, Kidman, Groundsman, everyone is so clear about our vision and where we want to go, what is our identity and what we expect from everyone.

35:47And I think this alignment together with the recruitment, together with the development from staff and players, I think that makes this way so special. To do that, it must be really important who comes into the club. Do you get any say? Do you get final say on transfers? Or do they just go, we've found this player, this player, this player? Yeah, definitely. I really appreciate the collaboration between Tony and me regarding this, because of course Tony has this very data-based approach, and I could really identify myself with this. But on the other side, really important for us as well, does he fit to our style of play?

36:21Does he fit into the locker room? Which kind of character he is? So never forget that we do a lot of research about the character. It's not only about data set of data, it's also research. How do you do that out of interest? It's like... You got spies? It's a lot of asking questions, for example, like ex-coaches, asking questions about the family members. For example, when we scout you, how does Gary behave when he's under pressure at home? Terribly. All these small little bits, how does Gary behave when he wasn't playing? How does Gary behave under pressure? I was always playing. Yeah, that's so cool.

36:57That was positive for me. Sorry. So I think these are questions that are important, you know, to get an understanding. And then I get always like a dossier about this background. Where is it coming from? Like we have like 70 different nationalities in our team. 17? Yeah. So that's like a big challenge. And that's like... How many? Do they all speak English? Have you got players with that? They should speak English. Do you think that's important? Yeah, that's really important. But of course, there's a little bit of barriers regarding language. We just had a new player coming in and his English is not perfect but it's good.

37:33So he has a teacher at the moment and this teacher is also my teacher. You still have an English teacher? Not an English teacher. You're very fluent. Not an English teacher? No English. I tried to learn Spain a little bit French. Spanish? Oh, alright. Okay, it's your next step, is it? I tried to speak with my players. There's my scoop, there's my scoop. There you go. So she told me how I had this lesson. I teach the player like, give something a go. That's a phrase in English. Give something a go. So try something, give something a go. And then we had the meeting here and we spoke a lot about the last game from Ask Roma.

38:05So I prepared the team about like, give and go because Ask Roma plays a lot of give and go. So this player came into the lesson with the teacher and said like, oh, oh, Kylie. Kylie, Kylie. Like the gaffer, I heard this phrase. He said like, give something a go in a meeting. And Kylie said, when did you say that, give something a go? And I said, no, no, no. I think he means give and go. You know, like there are sometimes these language barriers where you have like give something a go, it ends like in a give and go. So that's just funny things. But overall, we want to have like this language, like this English here because it's very important.

38:42And that's also how I see it. I'm a guest here. Of course, I feel more and more like English now because I feel very adapted to this culture. but overall we wanted the players to really speak English, that we have a common language here and that's crucial for me. Yeah, you've got players, you come in, the recruitment's great, but obviously being at a club like Brighton, it means you will lose players. You build them up to be better players and then they go somewhere else. That as a coach, it must be frustrating. You've lost, well, Van Hecke for example this summer, it must be like, damn. Honestly, it's part of our identity.

39:18I know from outside I might feel, okay, it's terrible to lose always the best players, but what I always emphasise is that we have this foundation. And this foundation we have is so strong and therefore when you lose players, then you just add players. Of course, every player is unique, but you can add these players because we have this foundation. They might fulfil the space we lost in a different place or in a different manner, but overall the principles and the foundation, the values always stay the same. So I see it more as a positive thing. I see it more as, alright, it's a change. That means a new opportunity, a new perspective, a new voice, a new energy.

39:56So I think it's more like an opportunity than a bad thing. Of course, it might need a little bit more time, but that's the way we have it here at Brighton. That's part of our identity. So I will never complain about this because it's about my responsibility well to sort these things out and build the strong foundation we have and keep building it with the new add-ons. Also obviously we've talked about your age a lot you must get sick to death of talking about that but don't worry you're getting older it won't happen for much longer so and also it might be helped by the fact that two of the old players are now no longer with you will you miss that experience of people like James Milder and Danny Welbeck in the dressing room?

40:38Definitely you can't replace the experience they had and you can't replace the conversations I had with them. There was an outstanding connection I had with them, very honest, very loyal. I think these two values are not that often in football. They're always straightforward. They're always like, also sometimes like tough conversations, loud conversations in my office, but I always appreciate this. I always like the person around me who has a strong opinion. So that's why I think that's crucial. So that also automatically means that some of our players might hide it in their shadow, in the shadow from these kind of big personalities.

41:15So when they are gone now, that means they have to step up. They have to take ownership, they have to take responsibility. They can't hide behind the shadow from these personalities. How important were those two players for you at this football club? They were definitely important on the pitch and beside the pitch. and I called, like I said before, my role as a friendly authority. And I think for that they were brilliant because they helped me to get used to the Premier League. They get inside of me and understand what it needs to win games. And they also always, like, they reflected me. So, for example, at the beginning, I can give you one example.

41:53At the beginning, I was quite crucial on this counter-bressing. I was very consequent. If someone didn't do it, no matter if you were James Miller or Daniel Mellwick, You had to do it. So you have to treat the players individually, but in certain moments, they're all the same. Regarding my standards, the players have to be all the same. Is that difficult sometimes? Sometimes it's difficult, but there are some non-negotiables. So me as a coach, I have some non-negotiables. They're just crucial. So everyone has to do it. So coming back to this example, I was quite strong on this counter-pressing.

42:23And in pre-season, if they didn't do it, they had to run. So no matter if you're Danny Weld or James Midler or one of the experienced players, you had to do it. because that was just a non-negotiable amount to see from every player. So we did this, I was quite consequent. At one point, a little bit like last season when we had this bad run, it was like a feedback from James and also people from them. I lost a little bit like this consequence. I didn't work on that anymore because I didn't follow the phrase like less is more. I think we were too complex at one point, we tried to get too complicated, too much involved in innovations and new tactics and we lost the basics.

43:00We lost our roots. So it just gave me a reminder. And I was open for that. I wasn't like, oh, he criticized me. No, I was like, all right, I appreciate your opinion. I take care of this. And I think these things are so important nowadays, what I mean with sometimes the coach has to listen. And listening doesn't mean you lose your role or you being a manager. You don't lose your power. I think it's strengthening your power. If you have this quality of not building followers, really building leaders beside you, I think that really strengthens yourself and strengthens the culture. And that's why I think that's quite an important connection and relationship I had with them.

43:46So that's why they helped me regarding this a lot. And now it's up to me and up to the other players. Now I will build new connections, new relationships. Who do you think will be your leaders? I think I still have great leaders like Pascal Cross, Jason Steele, Louis Stank. These are, of course, the leaders who really have this experience in the Premier League. But we shouldn't forget, we have a bad for Brigham. He goes, I think, now in his third season. We have Mats Viva, we have a Ferdi Cardioglu, we have Pascal Schroich from Leeds, we have Svoboda, who is also 27. They're all captains and leaders in their teams and they are in a good football age.

44:24So what I demand from them now is to step up. What we need to give them is the environment where they can do it. So it might need time. Like James Miller, when he was 37, 38, he was a better leader than he was at 27, 26. So we need to give them the support and the time that they can grow and they can do it. But we also put a really demand on them. You are now in this role where you have to step up. You can't hide behind big personalities anymore. So I think it's a balance between these players and the experienced players we have, with Chase, with Luis, with Pascal. But it's very crucial that we give them time.

44:59It might need a little bit of time, it might work from the beginning, but I have a big belief that it will be worth it. You've worked obviously in lower league football in Germany. How much more exciting is it working with top players, perhaps players at a lower level? Or does it change at all? In the end for me it's like they're all persons. So the persons are all the same. They act the same when they're not playing, they act the same when they score goals, they act the same when they're frustrated, when they're criticised. Because the person behind the players is always the same. It's definitely like you feel it regarding quality, when we speak of quality from the players.

45:37For me it's like understanding the game, so they understand quicker, they can adapt quicker. So for example, I have players like Yassin Ayari, you say to him one thing, he merely adapts it in the game. You say something to Pascal Groves, he immediately adapted to the game. And that's also for me quality. It's not only about speed, about winning a one against one, or being more physical. It's really quality for me is understanding the game. And understanding in which area you're on the pitch, and which decisions I have to do regarding the area I am on the pitch. How quickly does it take you to realise, I can work with this player quickly.

46:13He's going to be good. I think it starts already in the meetings you have with him before you sign him. You get an understanding about this character, you get an understanding about his attitude. So just an example with Luka Vuskovic. I had several conversations with him before we signed him. And this kid was from the beginning so impressive. Like how he thought about football. He asked questions towards me. I was like, all right, he really understands the game. He wants to understand this game. He has this winning mentality inside of him. And I think what we also do is not only we focus, Because of course we have this recruitment regarding numbers, and he was really good in numbers.

46:49But we focus then on his body language. We focus on how he reacts when we concede a goal. And he always expresses himself on the pitch as a winner. And I think you have it or you don't have it. And then on top of that he has this intrinsic motivation of, I want to improve every day. And with these kind of players you immediately have the feeling, yes, this will work out. Because this attitude, I think getting better every day, you have it or not have it. You have it inside of you, I want to improve, I don't want to improve. These things of technical execution, playing a short pass, playing a long ball, being in a side position at the centre-back, defending forward, defending backward, these are things you can develop with the player.

47:27And that's why I think the basic is always the right mindset, the right character, and then you can transform him into a top, top, top player. And that's why I think players like, we have Kostinia, we have Soboda, we have Sardog Sardog, we have also Luka Voskowicz. These players, they will always go their way because they have the right mindset. Who's the best player you've worked with? I worked with the best player. Who is the best? That would be unfair to it. It's a very unfair question. It's really like, I think it depends on which position. Who's the teacher's pet? That's like, so for me it depends on the position where you speak.

48:04But when you speak about centre-back, like I said, I really enjoy working with Luis because he knows how to win the Premier League games. When you speak about sixes, James Milner has just a good understanding. Pascal Gross has a great understanding as a striker. Daniel Lovac had two great seasons with us. He did. These kind of players, they're just great to work with because they understand the game and they understand how you want to play football. But besides that, I also really like the bright way of developing these young players. I can really identify myself. So when you see the journey from Sean Paul van Hecke, where he went, where he was when he arrived here, where he is now, it was from day to night, it's just incredible.

48:49Where you see Yassin Ayari, he didn't play in the championship, he came to us, he developed massively. Seeing players developing, seeing players growing, that's such a fascinating thing for me. It gives you a lot of pleasure. Yeah, that's why I honestly do this job. It's to see their journey, it's to see their path. That satisfies me the most because you can really see that something that you do, the daily thinking about exercise, about talks with the players, about the games, about preparation, I think it reflects in the journey players go and that really is something that satisfies me the most.

49:28You've got European football this season, Conference League. that's going to be a big onus on you, because obviously that's different questions are being asked of the squad there. Have you got the depth to cope with European football as well? Yeah, I think we are in a good way regarding depth, so we definitely need a depth in our squad to handle more games, more game minutes, so that's the first part. The second part, it's also responsive to my coaching team and me to give to more players, the understanding of my principles. So more players now have to understand our style of play and our principles.

50:02So that's the second challenge. And the third challenge will be travelling. The travelling to the games, how you can manage the energy, how you can manage that you have a good balance between... Of course, we want to be intense. Of course, we are a lot together, but in the end they should enjoy it. So you need to find the balance between these things. So it will definitely be a challenge regarding death of the squad. but I'm convinced we will handle it well, we manage it well. Regarding principles, I'm also quite seeing it as a good challenge for me and for my team to really make it sure to everyone.

50:39And then regarding the third thing, this will be a challenge to really manage the energy. It's a competition that you could win. If you look at the English teams last season, both Europa League and Conference League, so you must look at that. I mean, silverware is what everybody... I mean, ultimately, you know, a club like Brighton, it's almost impossible to win the Premier League. Leicester proved that wrong, my team, once upon a time. But it's so rare. But that looks like it might be an opportunity. Yeah, I think it's definitely an opportunity to win something. And we always, we as Brighton, we are known as a well-run club, well-structured.

51:18But in the end, we have high expectations of ourselves. We have ambitions and we want to be a club that has these ambitions, that express these ambitions. What is the ambition of the club and you while you're at this club? Yeah, exactly. I will never be that kind of coach who says, we want to finish top five or we want to finish in this or in that area on the table. What I always emphasise is the performances and what I really want to emphasise this season is consistency. Consistency in our performance, consistency in our results. consistency in our world. Exactly, and that's I think the biggest challenge we have because long term this will help us to challenge the establishment in a consistent way.

51:57How you build consistency is like I think daily behaviours. So for me it's really daily behaviours. What can you do today? How can you win the day today? How can you be a better player when you leave this training zone? So it's really about daily behaviours. And if you do this daily behaviours right, you build the right habits. And I think when you have the right habits for a long time then you can get consistency. And I think that's crucial if you want to reach the goals. So I will never be the guy who speaks out loud the goals, the achievements, expectations we have. Of course we have them. Of course I'm a very, very, very, very like a coach with really high expectations on myself.

52:37The club, the owner, Tony has high expectations. But I think what brings to these achievements will be like the process. So we have to focus on the process. We have to focus on the daily behavior, on the habits and the consistency. And then I'm sure the outcome will come. One final question. What about your future? It's a bit unfair asking you in this football club about this. But, you know, you left St. Pauli for here. So, you know, there are possibilities in the future. What's your goal, your long-term ambition? So, of course, I think me as a young coach, it's very important to have a vision of where you want to go.

53:13But I'm honestly feeling really, really trusted, valued here in this club. And I think in football you can't, you should have like this vision, but you can't plan long term. So I think football is really a daily business. And therefore, I always have this feeling, also in preseason, like I'm not done with this club. Like there are still so many things to achieve. Of course, we had like two great seasons. We built a good foundation, but there are still things to get out of this club. I still don't have the feeling we are 100 % there yet where I want to see my team playing. So, there are small improvements, small adjustments we can do.

53:51So, that's why I really feel appreciated here. I feel the trust from the owner, from Paul. I feel the belief in me and I also feel that I still think there's more to get out of this club here. So, that's why I'm enjoying this journey. I feel very privileged to be part of this journey. and let's see where it leads to in this season and then we see where my journey will go. You answered that perfectly. Thanks a lot. It might say nothing. I wish you all the very best. Really good to meet you.

54:51The stories are written and read by Tembi Denton Hurst, Nicola Dinan, Curtis Garner, Raven Smith, and Rufy Thorpe. I, Hunter Harris, wrote and read the foreword. The audiobook's out now. Give it a listen. This episode is brought to you by ChatGPT. Hey, it's Bill Simmons from the Bill Simmons Podcast. Have you guys heard about ChatGPT work? It's the new way to use ChatGPT for bigger multi-step projects. And when you need more than just answers, give ChatGPT work access to your apps and files, and it can create real work documents like spreadsheets, slides, and structured reports. Get started at ChatGPT.com by selecting work mode available on Plus and Pro plans.