Forest’s Impressive Start In Europe, ‘Stupid’ Ekitike & Dembélé The Golden Boy

0:09Hello and welcome to The Rest is Football with Micah Richards and me Gary Lineker. Alan Shearer did make it back from America eventually, but we're rewarded him by listening to him play golf because he likes golf, doesn't he Micah? He plays too much golf. I can't believe he's missing a podcast to play golf. I mean, I've missed some podcasts, but that's because I've been working, not my own individual benefits. I mean, I'm starting to question his commitment to the guys, you know that? Strong words. Have you been? Last week was probably the busiest week of my life in broadcasting. This week's been absolutely chilled, actually.

0:56Spent some time at home. Took my son to football, so it's been good. What about you? How you been? I've been filming my, recording the new show, The Box. The Box. I'll be with you, I think, hopefully early spring. And it's been a lot of fun. Oh, yeah? A lot of fun. Yeah. Can you give us a little teaser, a little build-up? Well, we've got some great people in it, and I've really enjoyed it. Graham Souness is in there, Micah. Oh, I love him. What a guy he is. What a guy. A lovely guy. Joey Essex has been magnificently fun. John Bercow, you know, the Speaker in the House of Parliament. Oh, no! Oh, no!

1:40I mean, he has got a louder voice than Alan Shearer. He can't possibly have. Really? Yeah. For the younger folk, there's Shakira that was in Love Island fairly recently. So, yeah, some great names. And it's a lot of fun. A lot of fun. Sounds fun. Yeah. and they face challenges and stuff. I don't know what I can say and what I can't say. I'm going to shut my mouth now. Before I get in the doghouse. Start with some football. Well, Nottingham Forest, really. The first European tie for, what, 29 years? They are, of course, twice winners of the European Cup, which is now known, of course, as the Champions League.

2:22I thought they did really well because that was a tough opening fixture away at Betis because they're a decent side, Betis. Yeah, Betis, a really good side. It's weird because Betis can play two type of ways. Really good at keeping the ball, but they're really good on transition as well. But obviously the Spanish players are always very technical. But I thought Forrest, with the chances they had in the game, they could have easily scored three or four, which is very encouraging for Forrest because you don't know where you would have the overhang from last season a little bit and change of manager and all those sort of things.

2:59But they dealt with the game really well. I was really proud watching them, actually. Yeah, and I think Ange Post to Coglu now is starting to get his... I mean, it's difficult, isn't it, when you go to a club and you've got hardly any days or an international break and then you start and you get a defeat and then, obviously, they got beaten in the Carabao Cup as well. And that sort of results, It's good for the confidence of everyone around the club, the management and the players. You know what's annoying me about this Ange situation is people got to remember he won a trophy. Spurs in that season weren't great, but he is a very good coach.

3:40In his first season, they finished fifth, didn't they? Spurs. And up against the teams in a league at that time, It was a very good achievement for what he was doing. All of a sudden, because they finished not so great in a league last season, people are saying he's not a good coach. He is a good coach. At times, we've questioned whether he could adapt. I think to the end of the season, he did adapt. He adapted when they won a trophy. So all it is, is time. We know what Nottingham Forest, I like to want everything now. We know that with the owner. but a little bit of patience he will get it right I don't think they should have got rid of Nuno in the first place because I thought he was doing a brilliant job but in terms of coaching Ange is a very good coach and I just wish people would give him time and a little bit of the credit that he deserves you know it's football Michael it's football and don't forget and he's very important to say I mean the catalogue of injuries that they had last season at Tottenham was anyone would have struggled to have cope with that.

4:47But I thought Elliot Anderson was exceptional again, Micah. I said this is the group. We did something and we said, who could be an outsider? I think the words that you used to get in the England squad. And I said it when he was at Nuka and it's like, we just moved to Forest and Alan was like, very good player, but I'm not sure I'm getting. That's because he's left. He's something. Yeah, probably. in terms of somebody who can do something different we were talking about a holding midfielder and there's not many about we know what Rice is like he likes to go forward for someone who can just sit Wharton played very well at times but then was injured a lot of the time in the season so for him to go there and just fill in he's really made that position his own now and I know this as well because we have to bring it around to fantasy football as well the defensive contributions against some fantasy football.

5:48It's there for everyone to see. He's always in the right position. He's good at tackling. He's very clever. And he can pass forward as well. So, yeah, I'm delighted for him. It could be real fine. He's broken into the England squad now. He's played his debut where he's probably the best player that England had on that first night. So, yeah, I think he's got a very bright future. I think he's got a real chance now, not only getting in the squad, but even possibly the starting line-up. Because you said that position, that pivot role, as you want to call it, or the sixth role, we haven't got too many people that can play that because it is a very specialist role.

6:31I think it's the one role that English football struggles with a little bit, whereas countries like Spain and France and even Argentina and possibly Brazil, you know, they produce those kind of players because it's a very thoughtful technical role as well, isn't it? And it's a role in the team. When we used to, and we used to say about Nigel De Jong, Jolie Lescott called him the water carrier. So we had the likes of David Silva who would make something happen or Tevez or Aguero. But that position is so important. is a person who can be unselfish, who could do his job, but enjoy doing the bits that everyone doesn't want to do.

7:18And he certainly does that while having the IQ, knowing when to speed up the game, knowing when to slow it down. I just think, I agree with you. I think in terms of England, I won't say he's nailed on, but he's got a really good chance of competing for that spot. Do you know who the original water carrier was? No, who was it? I think it was Didier Deschamps, you know. Was it? I think so, if my memory serves me right. Yeah. He didn't used to like the term, the walker. He was like, I've got more than that, because Nigel De Jong basically played as a number 10 when he was younger. It's a bit harsh.

7:54It's a bit harsh, isn't it? But it's a role in which... It's a cerebral role. Of course, but I think nowadays, midfielders want assists, don't they? They want assists, they want goals. They want to get into the box and all that stuff. They want points on fantasy. Yeah, correct. But in terms of what he does, yeah, I think he's improved enormously. Yeah, a point for Celtic as well, the British club playing in Europe. Last night, we were recording this early on Thursday morning. Yeah, not a bad point. It wasn't a great game, apparently. I've just seen the highlights. But one of our favourites at Leicester, Kelechi Ayanacho, scored.

8:40I think he'll score a lot of goals for Celtic. I mean, Brendan Rodgers obviously knows him really well from when he managed him at Leicester. I mean, he's a very, very good finisher, is Kelechi. And I think, certainly in the Scottish League, I think he'll bag lots of goals. I was with him at Man City, wasn't I? And if I'm being totally honest, I expected a little bit more. that's how good I thought he was going to be I thought he'd play in maybe not Champions League football in this country for a team but that sort of eight to fifth he could be a striker for them because his composure in front of goals was outstanding and then he got his chance at Man City started scoring some goals and then what Leicester paid a lot of money for him didn't they I think it was a record sale at the time for Man City and it just has not worked out.

9:35But he's now at Celtic and he looks like he's got his confidence back. So what a platform to show that as well. He's streaky when he's on it. He is a natural goal scorer. He's movement and he's a good finisher. Agreed. We like Coletti at Leicester. We liked him. He was one of those that was always happy, really good attitude. Even if he was left out, he wasn't one of those that complained. Maybe that's part of perhaps why he's not realised that potential that you spotted when you played with him at Manchester City. So let's take a break there. When we come back, we'll discuss some of the Carabao Cup games and, of course, the Ballon d 'Or winner, Ousmane Dembele.

10:27Welcome back to the Rest is Football with Michael Richards and me, Gary Lineker. And during the break, we discovered that it was indeed Didier Deschamps was called the water carrier. And that water carrier was named by a certain Eric Cantona, apparently. That's classic Eric, isn't it? Good knowledge from you, though. Good knowledge from you, Gaz. I like that. I'm quite pleased with that, actually, yeah. Right, Carabao Cup. We should start probably with Liverpool for two reasons. One, Isak's first goal for the club, which will be very helpful for him, a real mess-up from the goalkeeper at the back.

11:06And then Ekotike's winning goal and daft celebration that got him a red card because it was his second yellow and he whipped his shirt off. And I quite enjoyed Arnie Slott's post-match. Have you seen that? Yes. There he goes. I mean, he's put his player away, which I don't really agree with for managers to do that. But I think under these circumstances, you can't stand there as a manager and lie when a player's let you down that badly with such stupidity. That's why we love Slott. He's just so honest, isn't he? He's great. Every time he's in a press conference, I'm just like, this guy is a genius.

11:47He just knows how to play it. It gives you information, but not too much. he'll protect his players when he needs to he also can call him stupid because he knows he's got Isak waiting in the wings everything is just like, it's perfect isn't it, he knows exactly what he's doing but I mean I still don't like it though I mean he's scoring a goal, he takes off his shirt yes, he's stupid and it was the one in the first booking which was really stupid, the second one we understand, they're the rules and we get it I think the rules are daft. I mean, it is ludicrous, but they all know. They all know that that is a yellow card.

12:28And if you've already had a yellow card, you're going to go. And I thought Slott was quite right. He said, if it's a big Champions League game, you've beaten three players and knocked it in the corner. I mean, I'm all for tappings. I love tappings. But I don't think that was the moment to run off against, you know, a championship side. And also, I liked it, you know, when he said, call me old-fashioned and all this and that. But you've got to think about this, right? He's trying to keep Isak outside at the moment in terms of that position centre-four. He is now giving Isak the opportunity. He's going to play in his position.

13:07Isak scores two or three goals and then now he's struggling to get back in. It's a nightmare, isn't it? It's a nightmare. And he's been playing so well as well. Yes, exactly. did you see the other I saw another clip from Ekotike first time I hear him speak did you see it where they asked him who's the best player and you know who do you and he went Mo Salah and he went who's been your toughest opponent in the Premier League so far no one outside of Liverpool who's the player that has impressed you no one I love it I love that I love the arrogance and the confidence I didn't mind that at all it's brilliant and did you see Frimpog when he did take off his shirt.

13:52It was like, you've got to get sent off. What are you doing? It was in disbelief. It was brilliant, but it gives Isak the chance to start, and I'm thinking about bringing him in for my fantasy football. I was thinking the same thing. I'm starting to think about fantasy, Mike. I don't know what you've done to me. You and Haz have turned me into this. And I'm creeping up on your back now, aren't I? You're not so chirpy in a group now, are you? I had a bad weekend. I had a shocking weekend Sanchez got the red card killed me but there we go not to worry I was alright I did have Harland downrinders so that got me some points nice right I think we deserve mention to Diego Gomez for Brighton scored four goals two of them were unbelievable hits especially the volley that swerved if you've not seen it Look it up on YouTube because, honestly, it's worth a look at.

14:52It's absolutely spectacular volley. I don't want to be the party pooper here. And it was superb. You're going to blame the keeper? No, no. Well, a little bit. It swerved dramatically. But it sat up perfectly for him, didn't it? You know, if there's a ball that you want to hit, the right height and everything, it was just... The finish was immaculate. I'm not taking anything... It was a volley there, Mikey, yeah. volley not half volley yeah ooh that was half volley he bounced it was it came down as he hit it on the way down that's a volley not half volley's on the way up come on not again with you he bounced it was half volley let's not do this I don't think I can take it but um but yeah he was um he was he was into Miami you know he's Paraguayan yeah I don't know whether you've noticed but what Messi's doing over there is unbelievable I mean another two special goals that's not and a fantastic assist that he somehow knocks through someone's legs and it's every game he's just breaking all the records they've ever had Is Messi going to play the next World Cup or not?

16:12Oh yeah Was that just his last game in Argentina that celebration in Argentina it was the last qualifier wasn't it I think in Argentina yeah he's definitely playing in the World Cup he's still got it he's still got it I'm telling you I know I know we'll come on to the Ballon d 'Or in a second I've got to mention Wolves' first win otherwise John will have a breakdown Wolves won obviously they've been struggling badly in the league and so we need to mention that for John's sake producer John's a big Wolves fan he's been a bit depressed So we'll cheer him up with an honourable mention. Obviously, they've won two Carabao Cup games, but they've lost every single match in the Premier League this season.

16:56It's an interesting stat, Micah. There's three Welsh teams through to the fourth round. For the first time in the history of this competition, Cardiff, Swansea and Wrexham. There you go. That's a nice stat. A nice little stat, isn't it? And then with the draw for the next round, Swansea have been rewarded by playing Manchester City. Wrexham will play Cardiff in a... I wouldn't say it's a local derby. We'll call it a Welsh, all Welsh class, because one's on the south coast and one's on the north coast, obviously. Wolves-Chelsea. John, tough one against Chelsea. So we'll see how we go. Let's finish the Ballon d 'Or.

17:40it irritates me a little bit the Ballon d 'Or in terms of every time someone wins it now all it becomes about is those that didn't win it and I think that's slightly irritating obviously I don't think it helped that Laminya Mal's dad said something but we know our dads are you going to be protected of your own and all that stuff and you could argue that Laminya Mal is the best player in the world I think it's a good thing he didn't win it because I think at his age, too much to, he's got plenty of time. I think Dembele deserved to win it. I thought he had a brilliant season. We know one of the three categories in this is the success of your club.

18:24And obviously Barcelona did well, but it's very Champions League biased, isn't it, in that sense? Understandably so. And he had a brilliant season. But this whole thing about, oh, well, Rafinha was fifth. This is terrible. And I get that. I get that and we'll all have our opinions. But then you've got Salah up there, who also you could say has had a sensational season in England and won trophies as well. And there were so many really good, brilliant players up there that it just comes down to people's opinions. And this stuff about it being fixed and all this, I think it's a nonsense. I love the Ballon d 'Or, but why it's almost become like the Oscars of football, hasn't it?

19:09You know, when I was in Spain, at Barcelona, when I genuinely should have won it, when I should, in 86, I should have won it. Having said that, it's very important to point out, I think, that back then and for quite a long time afterwards, it was the European Football of the Year, right? It wasn't world player back in my day. Otherwise, I would never have had a chance to win it anyway because it was Diego Maradona would have walked it in 1986 when he won the World Cup. I'm going to say single-handedly, which is quite a good one. So I think, yeah, it was European Football of the Year, but Igor Belenov, he scored four goals, I think, in the World Cup.

19:55I'd scored six and 40 for Everton. Anyway, I'm over it now. But no, I never complained. But what I look over there in Spain, it was always huge. And, you know, it's a massive thing. And now we've caught on to that. So it's become more significant here. Like you say, football's version of the Oscars. Yeah, I think it's getting too much now. I totally agree with you. If Rafiddi would have won it, he would have been a deserving winner. If Dembele won it like he did, he deserves to win it. I mean, it could have been more than five, maybe. Really, Salah's had an outstanding season. Laminya Mal has been...

20:42Obviously, they've got a win. It's so hard. I think they would make it easier for themselves if they just state what is taken into consideration. And then there's no... There are three things that they take into consideration. I personally think the best I've always said if it is for the Ballon d 'Or it's for the best player of that year and I think it should just be to the best player rather than taking into account because if you're how do you define the best player though? There must be some stipulations because okay yeah but that means a goalkeeper or a defender or they're never going to get it are they?

21:27Never win it quite rightly so they're destroyers they're not joy givers water carriers yes water carriers yeah he wants to do a water carrier yeah no to be honest I agree with you definitely yeah but sometimes it's so when Messi won it Messi was in Miami wasn't it after the world after the world cup but he won it because of the world cup yes but and he's you could argue that he's still the best player in the world actually no one can do the stuff that he does and he's still doing it and he's, what is he, 38 now? But he was still, he was still in Miami, you know, when he got the award. So, Spain win the Euros, you're thinking, oh, we had that debate about Rodri a couple of seasons ago and how influential he was in Man City.

22:16So, it's very, it's very difficult, isn't it? It is difficult. But I think what, it's a little bit, you know, like when they pick a squad for a World Cup, they don't focus on those that make the squad. The story is, why has he been left out? And it's a similar thing with the Ballon d 'Or. Obviously, it's different because it's a few individuals concerned. It's not a squad. It's just one man. But it's always deflected away, I think, from the person that wins the Ballon d 'Or by saying, why has he not won it? Or why is he only in fifth place? And I think it's a bit of a shame, and it's got worse and worse that.

22:56Agreed. But well done, Usman Demba. I mean, what a season he had. And the way he's come back from injuries and adversities and to do what he's done is well done. So congratulations to him. Right, let's call it a day, Mike. I've got to go and do some more filming. Enjoy, Gary. I will, I will. You too. Speak soon. Goodbye from me. And goodbye from me. Have a good week.