Frank Lampard & Joe Cole join us as the World Cup kicks off

12:30Gary Lineker:Well, it was for me because I hadn't scored for England for two years, so... The relief was amazing. Relief? How on earth are you in the fucking team?

12:39Alan Shearer:That's a good point, yeah.

12:40Gary Lineker:Probably because I'd got 37 in the season before that. Oh, hey, we're in it. Hey! Hey!

12:47Alan Shearer:Got him! Got him, Micah! Got him! Got him!

12:52Gary Lineker:Yeah. Yeah, you know what it's like. As a forward goal scorer, Frank, you're just desperate to get off to a goal. Yes, you want to win, but you want to do your job and score the goal. So to score the first one is a huge relief. What's it like when you're not scoring, though, Al? You were there.

13:11Alan Shearer:I was there. Were you there? I was there. Sorry, don't ignore big meeks. Sorry, Micah. What did you say, Micah? Sorry, no, what's it like when you're not scoring? Because you know your high standards. Not that you should know, Micah.

13:26Gary Lineker:It's horrific. You can't sleep. You know, it's, I mean, whatever I did. Because if you remember, because England were the host country, we had all, they were all friendlies leading up to the tournament. Of course, yeah, no qualifiers. There was no qualifiers. So it's, I don't know, it was, you know, yes, you're playing for England, but there's, when there's not that, I don't know, there's not that edge at it. It is slightly different.

13:53Frank Lampard:It's like two things. It's your own thing. Because when you're a goal scorer, that's what you live and breathe for. You wake up, you can't sleep. It's the media pressure. When it's England, it's a different level of pressure that can build very quickly. We're not stupid. You feel that.

14:09Alan Shearer:I'd mentioned this because it was Mexico City.

14:12Gary Lineker:Oh, really? Did you play in Mexico City? I played in Mexico City. I didn't realise that.

14:17Alan Shearer:Did you know what happened for a few years on this day? June the 11th 1986 Go on remind me probably you scored the hat trick was it? I wasn't going to mention that but yes 40 years today June the 11th transformed my life and I'd gone 5-6 games with that goal which is obviously nowhere near as long as you did 40 years but there we go I mean there were some decisions in this game but he's gone

14:44Gary Lineker:he's had enough he's had all this shit before

14:50Gary Lineker:40 years that must I mean that must make you feel old man

14:54Alan Shearer:40 years I am old I was only 12 at the time it's a long time it's alright Micah we're changing the subject we're going back to the game today I was kind of baffled I thought Mexico were really good but I thought South Africa when you're a team that's not got you know many quality players with all due respect to start trying to play You play up from the back with your goalkeeper. Joe, I mean, really? You're the underdogs. You're going to play Mexico in Mexico City. The message, I'm assuming, for them is no mistakes. And no one's expecting to see, well, let's see if South Africa play for the Lions.

15:33And he plays it into the midfield just before he got caught. Nearly got caught. And you just think to yourself, just brain dead, wasn't it? It was brain dead. They did it again. And Mexico, they was good. I didn't think they was great. I thought they were good. I'm looking at them now thinking I'll be more worried. If England do play them, I think England can take care of them. But South Africa, just self-destruct.

15:57Alan Shearer:Yeah. Self-destruct. Yeah. I mean, you're a coach. Obviously, you like to play football and stuff. Yeah. Pros and cons of playing that way?

16:05Frank Lampard:Yeah, I think when you're sitting here as a coach talking, I find it hard to critique too much because everyone's got their own issues and their own approach. But my feeling is if you've got the players that are not comfortable doing it and if you understand the opposition, then I think if you want to play down there near your own goal and you want to make passes, you're not comfortable, then I think you're waiting for trouble. Now, you might be analysing my team next year. Why are they trying to play it from back? You've got to be careful what I say.

16:32Alan Shearer:Not might, we will be. We will be, 100%. But you're in the Premier League.

16:36Frank Lampard:Yeah, but to even go slightly, we're going to have variations. and if you look at some of the top teams now, watching Paris Saint-Germain, the best team in Europe, they're hitting goal kicks 90 % of them long. You go, there is another way. We don't have to over-coach to show how great a coach that we can go from back to front because everyone is waiting for you to do that. So I think, you know, in simple terms, a team like them...

16:57Alan Shearer:What did we think to the refereeing decisions and the intervention of VAR? I think most of them were probably right, but the slap from Zvane and, I mean, slowed down it looks like, but turn over that sort of thing. It's like they want to get involved in VAR. It's like a kid with a new toy that he can't wait to use. And you're thinking there was no need to go to VAR. You had to see it seven or eight times, didn't you? Yeah, I'm the same as you.

17:29Gary Lineker:I didn't. My slight concern would be is it's like the start of the season, when you're expecting to be really tight on everything. And I think that could be the case here is that for the first 10 days or so, you might see decisions that we're going to be talking about. But I'm like you. There was a couple of them on the edge, I thought. I think the first one was definitely a red card. And then the other two, I think, were on the edge, particularly the one that said the slap on the face. and I'm not sure where else he could have put his arm. He's just trying to fend him off a little bit.

18:10Alan Shearer:Micah, you were watching back home. Yeah, I don't think it was a red card. I think it was soft. If he started giving red cards for that, all he did is try to use his body. Unfortunately, he used his arm and it did touch him in his face and it was one-angled where it did look really bad. So maybe you don't want to go too hard on the referees. But I don't think it's a red card. This episode is brought to you by WISE. It's only when you start moving money between currencies that you really think about the exchange rate, the fee and what might be hidden away in the small print. Whether you're living abroad, paying someone overseas or just trying to manage your money across borders, you want a fair exchange rate, an easy transfer and no surprises along the way.

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21:00Alan Shearer:We picked a team, Joe Trank, the other day between us, and obviously you can differ, but it was pretty close to what Thomas Tuchel started with. We had Gaye in at the back rather than Concer. but aside from that and I think we had Rashford in instead of Gordon and Sacco who was obviously the slight concerns about his fitness what are your views on England I thought Jude Bellingham was excellent in the game I know you can't read too much into these friendlies because you actually don't really want to play in them do you before tournaments but it's just for fitness isn't it Joe the only thing I would do differently I'd start with Gordon, I know you work with him I love Gordon.

21:44And I think the way that he wants to play Thomas Tuchel, a lot of it's going to be sort of dropping into that low mid block and then winning the ball. And Gordon is a brilliant presser. So I'll probably start with him. And then obviously Maduweke off the right, if Saka's not feeling great.

22:02Alan Shearer:As former Chelsea players, we've talked about the fact that we don't like to talk too much about players that are not here. but when you see that, that Bakayi Saka might be injured. I mean, Cole Palmer was... I know he's had a difficult season with injuries and stuff, but he was starting to look fit and fresh at the end of it. And I just wonder, because, you know, he'd go back 12 months and he was player of the tournament in the Club World Cup. And also, Lamps, his personality, Cole Palmer, you see him score a hat-trick in the Premier League coming off the pitch and he's got that composure and calmness.

22:37I think you need that to be in for an England player. The pressure's so big to play for England. You need players who've got that swagger. Yeah. And Cole Palmer will just... This is where he is, you know what I mean?

22:48Frank Lampard:I don't know whether he sees him, because he's played more as a number 10 for Chelsea. Wherever he thinks on the right, he wants that dynamic thing to go by. And Cole Palmer can go by players, obviously, because he's got that. But it's a different style, isn't it? I'm a big fan of Cole Palmer. And I think where this game... I think where the conditions here, the game's going to slow down a bit and it can be a bit turgid at times and teams with the heat. and he's a player that can open things up.

23:11Alan Shearer:Moments player as well, isn't he?

23:12Frank Lampard:Absolutely no doubt. Nothing phases him. He's got no fear.

23:16Alan Shearer:And he played in the final on the right, didn't he? In the club welcome final. He was brilliant.

23:20Frank Lampard:Brilliant against PSG. I think, to be fair to Thomas, I think we've talked a lot about squads over the years. He's stuck to his guns. He's got the idea of, I'm going to say, this is the team, this is my starting team. I want the environment's important to me. These are the ones that are playing well at the minute. And I think there's something to be said for that. And there's always going to be some casualties through that, which is Cole Palmer. but it's definitely, you know, it's the hard bit about being England manager. We've all got opinions on this. I see your point with colour.

23:45Alan Shearer:Madweki... Frank, can I ask you a question? Go on, Michael, go on.

23:48Frank Lampard:Yes, right, go on. Sorry, Frank, just quick. You know, in terms of you're a manager now, being a great player, obviously you take that. You've worked with Mourinho. You take a little bit of what he's given you as well. But when we're talking about England, how much is it about the quality of the player and then the balance of the team? Because we're always saying, oh, Cole Powell must be going there, Foden must be going there, or Maguire should be there, Trent Alexander-Arnold should be there. But ultimately, the manager has to get the right balance for the team. How hard is that to do to get the player, the right players, and the right balance?

24:26Frank Lampard:Yeah, that's the hard part of the job, especially when you've got that level of talent in specific areas and you've got to make decisions on it. I mean, there's a human side to it as well, where you've got to ring up Morgan Gibbs-White, you've got to ring up Cole Palmer, these players that are playing really, really well. But I think you obviously have to prioritise the balance to get the best out of the players that you've got at your disposal, whatever the way he decides you're going to play, whether it's going to be a bit more, am I looking at transition? You spoke a lot about the finish. There's any players coming on, like Ivan Toney and Maduakis usually coming on.

24:56Frank Lampard:I don't mind hearing that stuff, because I think it's interesting. It's maybe a way we haven't thought before. We just pick the players that are playing for the biggest or the best teams. We obviously lived in this golden generation. everyone talked about, midfielders, where you can fit. The game's moved on now, I think. So finding the balance is right. And as a manager, you're just going to get judged by it. You live or die by the results at the end of it. But I quite like the way he's gone, this is the way I want to approach it. Because I think you can't sit on the fence. We're all going to disagree with one or two players there.

25:25Frank Lampard:There's a feeling with this group that the environment, because six weeks together away, we did it, Joe. We had a couple of World Cups with us. We obviously never won anything. You would have been around the squad as well. Sometimes a funny feeling around it. Maybe it's like the manager or the player's fault or the environment's fault. So getting that right is the first thing. If you don't get that right, I think it's going to struggle. None of you three would have been not playing that well. I've had it both where I've played every game and I've had it both when I've been coming off the bench and that.

25:53And that day when you train afterwards, if there's a couple of lads who are not on it, that's when they start moaning. They're pissed off. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, you know, so I think Thomas Tuchel, you need to have good lads who are ready to sort of be ready to come on or just keep the harmony in the group. I'm not saying that any of the players he's picked weren't good lads. But if you're expecting to start and Thomas Tuchel's not going to start you and he doesn't think you're going to be, you know, three, four, four. It's a long time not playing. And I've been on both camps. And so I think that has to come to me.

26:25Alan Shearer:What's it like, Joe, being, I mean, obviously we all know what it's like when you start and you've done that, you said. What is it like when you're in the squad, but you can't get in the team? When you were young, I did it in 2002. I was young, I come on, and I was happy to be there. I was a kid, I was 19. But in 2010, I'd played all the games in 2006. In 2010, I'd come back from injury and I'd played. And I thought I was going to start the first game. Because I played well and friendly before. And then I didn't start. And then I didn't come on. And then I didn't come on. And then you get frustrated.

26:59and then they ended up coming on for a couple of games. But you do have to get your mentality right. And there's certain players who can do that. And a lot of people talk about Jordan Henderson being in there because he can drive that training session and keep... He's a wise head, isn't he? I think that's something that maybe weren't considered a lot during our time. I wouldn't name names, but there were some players who would have been throwing the toys out the pram or making themselves known that they... Joe, name names. Yeah, there'd be players that you know, they'd let the coaches know they think they should be starting.

27:32And ultimately, you've just got to put your professional head on play and be ready.

27:36Gary Lineker:I think for the first week, that might be acceptable for some players. But the longer it goes on, when you see after a game, you're then in the guys who haven't played and then train it, then becomes a bit of a chore, I think. And that's, I think, one of the reasons why he said no. I'm more than happy with the characters that I've got in the squad and I'm happy with who I've left at home. As he said also, they might have more ability, but he feels that the better way to go is in terms of keeping everyone as best they can in terms of being tight and having no real rousal.

28:12Alan Shearer:Alan, you've got an interesting take on the fact that Saka might not be 100%. If he can't start, because everyone's assuming Madweki, you've got...

28:22Gary Lineker:Well, you've got options to play Gordon or Rashford on the right-hand side or the other one on the left-hand side. Rashford and Gordon either side of Kane, which would give you the pace and the press and the ability to sit back and hit also counter-attack as well rather than the Madweki. That's perhaps an option I would look at if Saka's not going to be fit to start the game.

28:49Alan Shearer:That's it for today's episode. We'll be back on your pod feed on Sunday with reaction to Scotland versus Haiti and Brazil versus Morocco. But in the meantime, join us on Netflix. Goodbye from me.

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