Messi inspires Argentina again as Egypt left fuming with VAR

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1:07Alan Shearer:We have our quarter finalists. Switzerland beat Colombia on penalties and reigning champions Argentina came back from two behind against an extremely unfortunate Egypt. Welcome to The Rest is Football on the show tonight. It's Micah Richards, Alan Shearer and Joe Cole is back. You took a couple of days, nipped home. I need to ask you where you watched the England game. I watched it with the kids. Yeah. 2am in the morning. You let them stay up? I let them stay up. Well, they went to bed. They agreed to go to bed at 8pm. They were good. We woke up at 2am and they were charged, mate. It was like watching it with two hooligans.

1:42And it was one of the best games I've watched for England. Jumping up and coming. Ah, brilliant. And I give them, I shouldn't say this, but the score, I give them the morning off of school the next day.

1:53Alan Shearer:Did any kids turn up for school, I wonder? Yeah, what did you think of the game? It was something else, wasn't it? It was superb. I was thinking about it because, I mean, I'm an England fan. I love, like, your England team, Gary, that was the one that switched me on to football. 96, I went to the games at Wembley. And I think that performance by that team made me feel like that little kid watching England again. The fight and we were up, we were screaming at the telly against the Mexicans. I swore I'm never going to drink mezcal again ever. I was right for it. We definitely know that's right. Yeah, that won't.

2:30That amnesty will last until maybe tomorrow night. But just watching it with the boys was lovely and we had a great time.

2:37Alan Shearer:Today's games start with another extraordinary football match. Well, let's go to Micah because he's there on his own. Amazing game, wasn't it? Argentina-Egypt. I mean, it looked done, didn't it? 2-0 up, 10 minutes to go, and back they came. I think they had a degree of fortune. I thought it was all over. I did. I thought Egypt played really well. They played really low, and then the counter-attack with pace was great to see. But I thought when Egypt were leading, they was being... I don't know if it was overconfident, but you're just thinking, see how the game was still trying to go forward. And you know, when Messi's behind you, he's going to punish you.

3:19And yeah, I'm just thinking, Messi is still on the pitch. Anything can happen at any time. And I just thought there was being quite naive the way they defended in the end. Yes, we'll talk about the decisions and all that. But Lionel Messi, I mean, he does nothing for 80 minutes. He's just scanning the pitch to see where the space is. he goes from forward position then to the middle position not getting the ball trying to break down that low block at times when it was in it and then he just thinks alright I'll go to the right hand side no problem I'll whip the ball in for the first and then I'll make sure I've got something to say and he turned up and it was inevitable that he was going to do that and we were all just waiting I think Egypt needed a third goal to see that game out but Lionel Messi man I mean it's just incredible.

4:12It was unbelievable how he keeps doing it and doing it and doing it.

4:16Alan Shearer:Yeah, it's crazy when you think about it. I mean, he's got some extraordinary statistics and I actually thought it was probably the poorest game I've seen him play for a long time until about 80 minutes, but that's what great players do. He's now scored in nine consecutive World Cup matches. Closer was leading World Cup scorer, of course, before this tournament with 16 goals. Messi has now scored 15 World Cup goals since turning 35. Staggering. I mean, 21 now in Tote. And he's missed two penalties this tournament as well. He's useless at penalties though. I mean, that's something. He's now got nine World Cup assists as well which is taking him clear of any other player.

4:55Alan Shearer:One ahead of Diego. Armando Maradona is obviously his fellow countryman there. I mean, what can you say about him? Well,

5:02Gary Lineker:we can't say any words that haven't already been used. Sensational. Different class. incredible all of those things and that is the sign of a great player is that you have a huge disappointment which he did again with a penalty and he was having a really poor game nothing was going for him the ball was bouncing off him he was giving it away and then all of a sudden and that's what great players do they just have that split second and then boof and they don't let adversity deal

5:32Alan Shearer:they can deal with adversity he was emotional at the end I thought that was amazing and And he should show everything, the long career and what he's won. And I think maybe what flashed between his eyes was this could all end. My Argentinian career could end tonight. 2-0 down at Egypt. Miss penalty. Miss penalty. And he's thinking, you know, he's thinking his time's numbered. And I think that must have all come flooding out for him at the end of it. Which makes me think he's human. Because sometimes I watch him and I think there should be stewards on him. Because I don't think there's any footballer ever that can do the thing.

6:04Do you know what I mean, Gis? I was a technical player. I'd like to think I could handle the football. But he does things. And it's not even in the extraordinary things he does. It's in the basic things that he does. The decision-making. The touch for the goal the other night. The weight of pass. Weight of pass. The vision. There's nothing and nobody that's come before him. And I'm throwing everyone in that name. And the young greats around, your Haarlands and your Mbappes, they're going to be miles off whatever he's going to achieve. He's just a blessing. and I think I might have cried if that was his last game at a World Cup.

6:39I'm never going to see him. You know what I mean?

6:40Gary Lineker:I thought it was amazing to see that emotion because after what he's done in the game, it still means that much. We've said it before. Can I ask you a question, guys? Because you read the stats out there, Gaz, in terms of the amount of goals Messi has scored after 35. Does that mean the teams now are not as good as he just elevated his game? Argentina just playing more for him I feel as though back when he was playing when he started the teams were better obviously now in the World Cup there are more teams and although they've performed well the lower teams in the World Cup in terms of the ranks normally or historically they wouldn't even be played in the World Cup has that got anything to do with not just Messi but the amounts of goals we're now seeing at the World Cup

7:31Alan Shearer:well I think definitely this World Cup because obviously we've got 48 teams, not 32. So you've got 16 extra sides, and some of which are not as strong, obviously, as clubs would normally be in a World Cup. So you've also got an extra game, round of 32. So I understand why it's higher on this particular World Cup. But having said that, his numbers are still better than everyone else's at the present moment.

7:55Gary Lineker:I think because of the number of games, though, is that every record's going to get smashed. Every record's going to get broken. Yeah, of course. Because of the number of games, and perhaps because of the quality or the lack of, particularly in earlier games, they're all going to get smashed. The rule changes, Gaz, as well. You know, you can't touch him. I remember playing against him many times for Chelsea and you could, like every attacking player, you could be brutalised, you could be fouls and things. The game was more aggressive and I think now it's worked out that nobody can touch me here.

8:28Could you go man-to-man on him? Yeah, but it's still the same rules apply.

8:31Alan Shearer:Yeah. You know, you lean on him. You're going to give away a foul. It will inevitably be in a dangerous position. But can you, if I'm just saying hypothetically, say you put one man on Messi and you say, right, because Messi just stands a lot of the time. Yeah. Stand with him. Because what happens, Messi, this is where he's clever. People go, well, he doesn't really move. The reason he doesn't move is he knows the person that's closest to him will move. So as soon as the ball gets down there, the defender naturally drifts off and he stays. And when he gets the ball, then he can do something with it.

9:02Alan Shearer:But my theory is, can you go man to man and just say, right, you forget any other aspect of the game, you just stand with Messi. Against a team like Argentina, who's so reliant on him. I just wonder whether that... Do you think that would work, Mike, or is he just too good? He's too good? Yeah. He's too good because there's many factors in that. Yeah, but the other option, Mike, is what everyone tries,

9:24Gary Lineker:has tried for years, which is not man-marking. I mean, he's got around that as well. Sorry to butt in, but I think that's a really valid idea to do that because just say, forget about doing anything else. You just stick with him. You stop him because if you stop Messi, you basically stop Argentina. And if you've got a guy who's as fit as can be, who can run, who can just go, bang, I'm sticking with you, I'm not moving, I think that is a proper option.

9:53Alan Shearer:I've spoken to players that have played against him defensively and they say you can't do that because he's too clever. And the other thing, if you rely on one person to go man to man, if he beats that one person, then what does the rest of the team do?

10:06Gary Lineker:He can get around the fact that no one's man-marking him because you just said he finds the space, whatever. So that has to be a viable option. He's almost unplayable. Yeah, you can't. You can't. As a defender there trying to mark Messi, it's virtually impossible because spatial awareness. So if you're marking him, even if you say you put a defensive midfielder on him. So if Messi goes and stands out on the right, then space opens up in the centre of the pitch. Then he's got spatial awareness round him where he's always scanning. Similar to David Silva. Everyone used to say, he's so small, why can't he just...

10:42Because he knows where to get the ball, receive it. And also that, I've talked about spatial awareness, it's his first touch. So if you're going in, because he's so agile, and if you're putting someone on him, would be a bigger person. I would say more a defensive person. So the time it takes you to move, he's already thought about what he's going to do. And then he pops it off. And then you have to still look at play while you're man-marking someone. And he's so quick in his mind, it's impossible to read what he's going to do. And what he did in the game today, okay, there's no space in the middle of the pitch.

11:21I'll just go out on the right. You think you're all right. But because technically he's so good, if he doesn't dribble past you, if he doesn't shoot, he will just put in an unbelievable ball too. So it's actually impossible to mark. And if you're talking about trying to mark him, you're going to be tired. You said he's walking around. But you're constantly having to adapt to your position while watching the ball and engage. So you're getting more tired and he's fresh because he's walking about he'll just be walking into positions Where you don't want to be which then opens up space for the rest of the team.

11:54So Ultimately is impossible to mark because he's that good.

11:57Alan Shearer:It's extraordinarily good. He really is Let's give a I think a lot of credit to Egypt. I mean, there were massive underdogs going into this game I thought their defending was brilliant for until the last obviously towards the end Obviously the keeper played really well saved the penalty. They were two nil up with ten minutes to go They had an overturn by VAR that, I mean, you can say technically it was possibly a foul. But is that enough at the start of this tournament, Alan? They weren't intervening and things like that. They were letting it go, letting it go, letting it go. Now they're in their little box there, the three of them, and they're getting a little bit bored.

12:32Alan Shearer:Oh, let's do something. Let's have a look at this one. Slight clash of toes. And I mean, I must admit, I was shocked at that. Ultimately, did it make any difference? We'll never know because it would have gone 2-0. and they went to 2-0 anyway and obviously everything is different should things change. But I think they're a little bit hard done to in the game, Alan.

12:51Gary Lineker:Yeah. I mean, the reason why I guess so many people will get angry because as much as I don't think the Salah incident in the penalty box was a penalty, as much as I don't think the shirt pull in the box was a penalty, that same logic applies for that free kick that was given. Correct. So if you're going to give that one, then there's a huge argument to say, well, one of those has to be a... If you're giving that as a foul, you're actually going 110 yards back and saying, sorry, that was a foul. We're going to disallow one of the best goals of the tournament. I think, and I can say what I want on here, I think it's utter and complete bollocks.

13:35Gary Lineker:I really do. No wonder there's so many theories about it stinks. I mean you've got the top four in the world, Rankins, England, France, Spain and Argentina. If they win their group they all then guarantee they can't meet each other until at least the semi-final. You've got interference from presidents, making calls, and then you get that in that game because of Argentina. You think, no wonder, you can't blame people for coming up with these theories can you? Conspiracy theories. Yeah, it was a foul, though. No, Micah. The referee didn't give it. It wasn't enough to say. It was never, ever enough to say, sorry, that is a clear and obvious foul.

14:23I agree with clear and obvious. But we've seen those given in the World Cup, haven't we? But we've seen them not given, so therefore it's not a clear and obvious foul. The referees at the beginning of the tournament, where it was all four of them saying. Once he went to VAR, it was obviously going to give it of course it was but it's not that much of a howler

14:45Gary Lineker:let's say we're going to go 110 yards further back and we're going to rule that out as a clear they're saying that's a complete and utter foul the referee didn't give it so the referees earlier on in the tournament were not given those fouls they weren't if you look at I did an early game when Mbappe was fouled as it was a clear penalty the referee went to the screen and said no, I'm sticking with my decision, I'm not giving that. Now, you compare that to what was given today.

15:13Alan Shearer:I'm totally with you, Alan, but the problem is we will never, ever get consistency from VAR because they changed their tune. They weren't involved much at the start of the tournament, then they want to get involved, now they're being more involved, now they'll probably go less involved because there'll be a bit of a stink about this one. The problem is not necessarily all the people doing VAR, the problem is VAR itself. It's turned... Do you think it's a foul, though? Forget if it goes... Maybe. Maybe. Maybe not. Do you think it's a foul? Maybe. No, I think... I don't. I don't think it's a foul.

15:46In the later rounds of the competition, they're going to scrutinise everything. I agree with you, Alan. VAR is a fucking nightmare. We all know that. We hate it. We don't like it. We need to get it out of the game. I agree with that. But once it has gone to VAR, we all know that in the modern-day game, that is a foul. You know? Yeah.

16:07Alan Shearer:Well, I think it's two players just putting their foot down and one's slightly flicked his toe. Now, I don't think that even now is necessarily a foul. It's certainly not necessarily enough of a foul to turn a decision over. And that's where the problem with VAR is. This thing about, is it enough of a foul? Which is either a foul or it's not. If they just change it and say, it's either a foul or not. But at the moment, they're still using this thing. It has to be enough for a turnover. And therefore, it will always be a nightmare. The only way out of this, I've said it a million times, is an appeal system that will eventually come, I'm sure of it, because we can't carry on as it is.

16:48Alan Shearer:It will. Joe, you've been a bit quiet. I know you think it was probably a foul, and I think you would like it. I agree with all of you. I don't like VAR. I thought they started off at the tournament well, and then in the last few games, it's gone a bit sideways. But I think it was a foul. It was a soft foul in the modern game. It's a soft foul. But I think what happened there was, I think, that it was subconscious bias. Because VAR is supposed to be, we're going to make it everything so it's not a contentious... Subconscious bias. Subconscious bias with the bigger clubs, with the bigger teams, bigger countries.

17:22And it happens because I feel like I've seen it happen in my own career where referees favour bigger players, bigger teams. And I've played for big teams and I've played for smaller teams as well. So it's human nature. And I think they've gone, this ain't part of the script. Egypt beating Argentina. And I think, oh, there might have been a little foul. Let's look at that. All right, we'll have a look at it. So I think there's a little bit of that that comes into play with it.

17:46Alan Shearer:I don't think any of us think they're deliberately corrupt or anything like that. But there is a subconscious thing where everyone loves Argentina, everyone loves Messi. And they found a tiny little foul in the build-up. But in fairness to them, through the laws of the game, the action, although it was a beautiful goal and it was 100 yards run, there was no change. It was a fabulous goal. There was no change of phase. So from the laws of the game, their laws, they can go back and look at it and it's a foul. It's not a foul. You know, you think it is and I think it is. But it wasn't enough to rule out that goal.

18:25But they did.