Mikel John Obi Part 1: Fergie Vs Mourinho, JT's Leadership & Scraps In The Dressing Room

31:39Whatever you have to do, you have to get that. You have to get him back to London. You have to bring him back to London. so my agent came to Norway and and then he took me out he took me somewhere I don't know if you could see there was a point where I went to a game I went to watch a game and then the press came and everybody they saw me in the bushes me and my agent they said you were hiding again I was hiding you were missing again I was missing again in the bushes and then there was a national announcement on the radio in Norway by the said if anybody knows where Jono B. Mikkel is can you contact the police because he's gone missing hang on can we just pause there just for a second because I want to sign this contract that gives me the official film rights

32:38actually there's no point giving you a contract sign because they don't mean anything anyway

32:45Yeah, so the announcement came on radio. I remember my girlfriend back then, Norwegian, who I just started dating back then. Yeah, yeah, little, yeah. Scandinavian, though. So she called me, obviously I had to pick up. Where are you? I was like, well, I'm here. What's your football with my agent? And it's like, yeah, but there's a national announcement announcement where, you know, if anyone knows where you are, to contact the police. And I told her, I said, listen, don't tell anybody where I am, but I'm here watching football with my agent. And then, yeah, before you know it, that's when the press came.

33:29Everybody now knew I was. Like, yeah, I think she betrayed me. I think she gave it away. She betrayed me. Not with another fellow. She just linked a bit of information. Yeah. But then, yeah, And that's how that happened. And then we had to run away through the bushes, went back home. And then my agent packed up my bag same night. We came back home and there was massive press in front of the house. So we went into the house, into the apartment. I saw my friends. None of them were speaking to me. They all blanked me. Because they were United fans? No, because obviously they wanted me to sign for Chelsea.

34:09oh right oh sorry if i signed for chelsea those friends yeah yeah so my friends yeah if i signed for chelsea they might they will have a chance of probably maybe not signing for chelsea but maybe sign and maybe be loaned out somewhere you know what i mean so you know their future depending on what i did and and i think also that was another thing that made me kind of reverse my my decision because I could feel, when I went back, I could feel what I did wasn't right. And I saw what it meant, what I've done to them. You know what I mean? So I went back home. I packed up my bag straight away, me and my agent.

34:48We couldn't go out through the front door, so we had to jump. We had to go over the fence. Fences, bushes, jump out the back window. We went through the back window. We jumped over the fence, went through the back window. And then that was how I was, I was flown into London. I was flown into London. Nobody knew when I left. Booked the flight, same night. Flew into London. And that's how I stayed. I got an apartment just next to Stamford Bridge. I stayed in an apartment there. So Chelsea got me an apartment. I stayed there. And for a year, a year and a bit, I couldn't play for either Chelsea or Manchester United because FIFA was trying to sort it out.

35:29Chelsea said, we're not going to let the player go. he was our player we've been looking after him blah blah blah obviously they have the records or everything that they've been the one looking after me and a pre-contract doesn't exist until i sign a professional contract so chelsea were like adamant he's not going anywhere roman was like no he's my player i want him jose morino as well was like i'm not gonna let the kid go i want the kid to come to chelsea and that's how they did everything for a year fifa tried couldn't sort it out but then finally the FA English FA got involved I'm saying okay we have to sort this out the kid has to play football he has to play football so we have to find a way to sort it must have been frustrating for you yeah yeah for a year for a year I lost a year you know it was it was horrible it was a terrible time you're training there no I was training yeah but I wasn't allowed to train with Chelsea or Miami United not with any club no so I was training on my own.

36:25Sometimes I go to the park, you know, do some runnings. But it was horrible every morning. I can't imagine how difficult it must be to be in the middle of a tug of war between Sir Alex Ferguson and Joe St. Maria. Oh, crazy. Horrible. Horrible. And I wasn't allowed to speak to either of them as well. That was probably for the best. Yeah. So I stayed in that apartment for about a year, every morning, waking up, thinking, what am I going to do? How am I going to get out of the situation. You know, when you have your mom and your dad calling you every day, you know, crying on the phone, your brothers, your sisters.

37:02Is this how it's going to go? Is this how my career is going to go? Am I going to get banned? Am I going to, I'm not going to play football anymore? I know we joked about this, but that must have been seriously frustrating and worrying. Yeah, it was, it was. Like, you wake up in the morning, a few times I woke up, I was crying. You go to bed crying because you have no clue what's going to happen. I have absolutely no clue what's going to happen because when I talked to my agent, he said, I don't know the situation. Do you feel like you're manipulated at all? Of course. Someone of a young age. Of course, of course.

37:36I did not have any independent good advice when I was young. No, none, you know. Listen, my agent was good. He was a lovely man, good guy. I got on really well with him. But obviously he was from Chelsea. He was Chelsea. He wanted me to go to Chelsea. So the whole United thing was hugely, hugely, the way it was conducted by my club, Lino's Law. Can I ask you, at that point, where did you want to go? What did you want to happen? I mean, I guess it's difficult to not say Chelsea because you've spent an amazing decade there. But at that point, and I think most people would understand that United were a huge club.

38:30Huge club, bigger club. So it must have been. I think when I signed the pre-contract, I think after everything, when I left Norway, I had a clear picture of where I wanted to go. And I just knew that obviously Jose Mourinho coming into the football club, the transition of the football club, where the club is going to go, A young manager who's coming in, who's making a name for himself and wants to build something with Chelsea, wants to create history. Manchester United have won everything. Fagy has won everything with the club, Premier Leagues, Champions League, whatever. They've won it all. And I wanted to go.

39:05I thought, okay, let me go to Chelsea where I can create a bit of history, make a name for myself, be part of history. And that was 99 % of why I made the choice, the decision of going to Chelsea. because after speaking to Mourinho, talking with the club, I knew exactly where I wanted to go. You know, go to come to, you know, Chelsea, create a bit of history and make them for myself. And now when I look back at it, of course, I managed to achieve all that. You know, we were the first club to win the Champions League, you know, in London. You know, we won the Premier League multiple times, FA Cup, whatever, mentioned it all.

39:42I don't think anyone would say it was a bad decision. I mean, obviously Manchester United were also very successful in that period. You joined, you were obviously a holding midfield player. Were you always that? No. No? No, it was never that. It was never that. I was more of a number 10. You transitioned actually. You went further back, didn't you? I remember because when you first came, you played much further forward. Yeah, yeah. The only thing I didn't do was to transition back to becoming a goalkeeper. No, but I was a number 10. For me, that's where I played from my early days as a kid, from the under-17s to the under-20s.

40:20I was a number 10, where everything goes through me. I was the guy who created the chances. I dictated the game. I was very much involved in the game. Everything had to go through me, under-17s, under-20s. But then, that's where I love to play. That's where I wanted to play. That's where I see myself. That's where I know I'm good at. Yes, I'm not the quickest, but I was very good on the ball. I never give the ball away. I was very good on the ball. Technically, very, very good. And that's what all my coaches saw with me. But then when I joined Chelsea, I had a meeting with Mourinho. I said, listen, you know, I know you're a number 10, but right now I have way too many number 10s.

41:04Obviously, Joe Cole, I think it was Joe Cole, somebody, a couple of other players. Well, hang on a minute. Didn't they have Claude McAlealy and Michael Essien? Yeah. both number six yeah I mean Michael Laley obviously one of the absolute greats in that position yeah and he and he was leaving yeah Michael Lysian was never a number six he was never he was a number eight kind of like yeah a bit like a bit like Frank so Joseph was like you know watch Claude because he's going to leave he's got six months left on his contract he's going to leave so watch this guy study him because this is where I want to see you play I think you're going to be good in this position because you really give the ball away you're technically very good we can build up from the back with you blah blah blah which we never did with more and you're building up from the back so he kind of sold that to me but um yeah so that's what i did i watched cloud for six months i played a few games here and there obviously cloud was the number one and and then until he left then i became more involved you know um as i started but that was how the number six role started.

42:08I was never a number six. But you're a kind of player. That number six role has become almost as important as a number 10 role, hasn't it now? I mean, you're the pivot of the team. You're the brain of the team. Nowadays, yeah. Yeah, well, yeah. And that's gradually transformed. Transition, yeah. I think people now see that the holding player is the one that kind of... Rodri, for example. Yeah, I think obviously it started with Fernandinho, didn't it? Yeah, the Brazilian side. Yeah, exactly. He kind of started the whole changing of what we call a holding midfield player, you know, building up from the back, you know, everything.

42:45And then of course, Rodri now has just changed the game. You talk about Busquets as well. You know, Busquets also was the guy who, but then you have these guys, but Rodri has just changed it. Well, on that, what is the main difference between 10 and playing as a six? Oh, much, much different. Yeah. Was it difficult to change having played that other way all your life? I think when you play as a 10 and then when you drop a bit deeper, I find that much, much easier. Because playing as a 10, you always have people behind you. You have to get the ball first time. First touch has to be good. So when you have all that, playing as a number six is much easier because then you're facing the play.

43:27You can see the game. You just get it from the defenders and then you're facing the play, which is much easier. and for me that was what I found easier but every time I went back to the national team I still played as a number 10 so for me always that the change of position was always there so I might be playing as a number six for a month going back to national team for two three games I play as a number 10 and then straight away I have to switch my mentality after okay now everything has to go through you you have to shop for the ball you have to dictate the game you have to make sure you give the final passes and stuff like that.

43:58So it's always difficult. But I think for me, the number 10 was a position that I really loved playing. But then the more and more I played as a number six, I felt very much comfortable. And then I grew into it and I definitely absolutely enjoyed playing there. I thought you were terrific. Yeah. Tell us about Jose Mourinho. What's he like? I mean, we all, you know, Jose's a huge personality and incredibly successful football coach. What's he like to play for, both in terms tactically, which we've already covered to a degree, but actually personal, the man-to-man side? Oh, the man-to-man side, Jose.

44:35It's incredible. You know, we talk about playing for a manager. Jose is a manager that you want to run through a brick wall for. You know, you want to die for. You want to go to war with. And that's something that he always... Why? How does he how? How does he get that to you? It's just the man management. He comes to you. You know, you can feel the passion. You know, sometimes managers have a conversation with you. You don't feel that. But when Josie comes to you and have a conversation with you, it's about, are you ready to go to war with me? Are you ready to play for this club, this badge? You want to win trophies?

45:10And if he finds a little bit of hint that you're not ready, he doesn't take you with him. He always wants people. I want that passion. show me that passion and believe that we can go and beat anybody. We can win anybody. You know, back then when we walked through the tunnel, when teams see us, we already beat, when we see teams, when they look at us in the tunnel, we can see, straight away we know, okay, you're dead. Fear in their eyes. Yeah, we're going to beat these guys easy because the names we had, you know, the physicality we had. Talk perhaps as well about some of the names you did play with Chelsea.

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49:04Welcome back to The Restless Football with me, Garal Inica and our special guest today Mikel Jonobi and well it's been fascinating so far I'm sure you want to discuss some of the players that Chelsea played for maybe start with the captain John Terry because real leader wasn't he what a leader a warrior somebody you can count on anytime any day always on the pitch you know that's why today when I talk about the leadership at the club you know I talk about Reece James for me fantastic player top top player we see that every time he plays I've always talked about we need to have him on the pitch he has to be on the pitch not always injured and that's what I got with my captain if my captain is always on the pitch that just brings you know confidence around the place and that's what JT gave us year in year out you know he was the leader you know you're walking through that door coming to the football club he just sets the record straight and tells you what the club is about the culture of the club what we stand for what we want to achieve He had that conversation with you, didn't he?

50:06Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, he does. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He was very good at that. He always finds an opportunity to have a conversation with a player, a new player that just come into the football club. He tells you who we are, what we do in terms of, you know, applying yourself well, doing training, you know, being there for each other, fighting for the club. We're here to win trophies. This club is about winning the mentality of the club. And that comes from Jose Mourinho. and then down to the captain, John Terry. And then you have the likes of Frank Lampard, Didier Drucker, you know, Peter Cech. These are top, top players.

50:43Players that always make you feel that this is a club that wants to win. This is a club that always wins. And then, of course, you have, you know, Michael Ballack, you know, German captain who came into the football club and thought, okay, this is, I'm Michael Ballack. I'm the captain of, you know, Germany, played for Bayern Munich. But then he came into the football club and you thought, okay, I'm just going to be... Then straight away, JT, straight away let him know that no, no, no. There's always a bit of tension between both. And how did he let him know? Well, JT always lets people know, always has a conversation with you.

51:23There's always fights with us. Really? Of course, in training, in the dressing room, but we never let it come out in the dressing room. Everything that happened stayed in there, But as players, we know... Until now.

51:39No, there's always fights between each other. Obviously, we want to win. But that's normal in a competitive dressing room. It is, in a very competitive dressing room. Everybody wants to be there. You know, come three o 'clock kickoff on Saturday, you want your name to be in the starting 11. And that's what we train for. That's why we fight for in the dressing, you know, in the training ground. Players tackling, you know, kicking each other, fighting each other because... And Jose, how was he with that? Did he coach that? Oh, Jose let it happen. Yeah. Jose absolutely loved that. That's where he sees who's who.

52:10You know, if you get into a fight and you back off in that fight, you know, Demia's weak. You know, you have to stand up for yourself. You have to make sure. I don't think he'd have lied to me. That's where you run away. You just walk away. You have to stand up for yourself. I remember walking into the football club at the age of 18, you know. I had to start, quickly, I had to stand up for myself. I remember when, you know, I was, you know, players were trying to bully me, but I never let it happen. I always stood up for myself, you know. I remember having fights, arguments with Frank Lampard, you know, Michael Ballack.

52:48You know, I was like, no. Arguments with Frank? I find out. He's such a nice, gentle, quite shy person. Frank is a very shy person, but he'll let you know on the pitch if you're not. On the pitch, yeah. Frank never got involved in politics and everything. Frank was a very quiet guy, like you said. But on the pitch, he would let you know. He would let you know. He would come. He would try and hit you in training. He would tackle. He would do everything. But, yeah, we always had that. You know, we had a fight where Solomon Kalou, the most nicest guy you can ever meet on a football pitch, the most nicest human being, you know, one day kicked off between Solomon Kalou and Michael Balak in training.

53:27Yeah. massive, massive. Like they both, like, it was like absolutely blows. Like absolutely blows. So we played the game. Everyone wants to know who won the fight. I was not there because we played a game. So I played the game the day before. So I just did a warm down. I was inside. So the guys that didn't play, they played like a five-for-side. That's the way it always happened. The fights always happen when you play the little shot pitch five-for-side. So it kicked off between Solomon Kalou and Michael Ballack. and Solomon Kalou absolutely lost it. His eyes rolled. Everybody was like, Mikael, you need to see your...

54:02Red mess.

54:06So they call us both, Tom and Jerry, they call him my twin brother. So everybody rushed in. The physios, doctors, they rushed it like after training. Mikael, you need to see your brother today. You lost it on the pitch. I was like, what happens? He had a fight with Michael Ballack. The exchange blows. we've never seen anything like that before so i was like really solomon kalu is like yes the most nicest guy he lost it today for some reason michael a balakin oh he did he gave him a balakin yeah exactly so he so he walked in i was looking i'm like what happened i could see his face was like red he was still upset i was like what happened is he didn't speak to me he never said a word to me he's like he said to me use the f words like this get out of my way i was like why we can use the f-word on the podcast it's fine yeah it's not terrible i said what happens like michael fuck off i don't want to talk to you like i really is like okay straight away took out his shoes went in the shower showered took his bag well off he left guy who never did that always there after training having the panther here and there playing around took a shower took his bags and just left like absolutely left he absolutely loved lost it that's the kind of fight we used to have and that's what you have to stand up for yourself as you know back then in Chelsea at the point it was sort of a gangster sort of football club it was a mafia kind of football club if you if you if you have no if you have no strength if you have no power if you have no balls Like Jose Mourinho say, you know, the cojones he called.

55:48Cojones. Cojones. If you don't have that, you can't stand back then because those guys… Thank God I never paid for checks. Those guys were idiotic life. They were idiotic life. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. It was such a… And of course, Jose Mourinho was the guy who let those things happen. He let those things play out. He doesn't stop it because that's how we had to win. If we're going through a patch where we're not winning games, that's where everybody starts getting upset. People are getting angry. There's players who are grumpy because they're not playing. And that's when those fights happen. And then Jose Murray just lets you play out.

56:23He's like, I like this. I want to see. This is what I want to see. I want to see that you guys are upset. You're upset with the situation we find ourselves. We have to switch. We have to switch back on. We have to start winning again. And then we go. That's how we go on this run and start winning games and just win. We won everything. We all know how good some of the players were. I think what people like to know is a little bit what they're like, like you've explained beautifully. Didier Drogba. I've been fortunate enough to work with him on TV a few times. And he's seems like a really good guy.

56:56Good guy. Smart guy. Yeah. A guy with a guy with lots of ego. Yeah. Well, yeah. Lovely guy. Fantastic guy. I mean, you know, I say, but he needed that. A top player, as you know, guy, a top player. Every top player needs a bit of that arrogance. Confidence, arrogance, ego. He had it all. Obviously, at the club, we had players with lots of egos. John Terry had his own ego. Frank, Michael Ballard, Peter Cech, Ashley Cole. These guys were guys with massive, huge ego. Mark Lele. I know he's smallest, but his ego is huge. We saw him at the final. Yeah, we did. His ego is huge. here yeah so these guys they all have it yeah but didier is a guy that when he walks into a room you can yeah he's got a presence presence is there you know the presence comes with the ego and he absolutely loves that and he carried that on the pitch as well when we played that not just respect to the likes of stoke hall city you know everything all these teams he doesn't really care about it you know he he shows up but it's not really big game plan big games the big games you can tell straight away a couple of days leading up a week leading up to that game the attitude has changed you can see him he's focused he's absolutely focused he's zoned in he's locked in the ego is there we can tell okay he's going to show up he's going to this is his moment and he absolutely showed up every single time in the big games he absolutely loved the big games including the Champions League we'll come to that but just first how difficult was it when Mourinho left?

58:40Was that concerning for everyone? Oh, the first time he left, yeah. The first time he left. Obviously, I just joined the club, but the guys who have been there with him, you know, they won the back-to-back trophy, didn't it? You know, in the first year with the likes of Frank, Didier, Michael Essien and all these guys. I was talking more about the second time. Oh, you mean the second time? When you were very much part of it. Oh, the second time. Yeah, the second time when he left. Obviously, he just came back and we thought, okay he will be here for a while you know he's not gonna get sucked again but you know roman how how roman was um if you stop winning straight away you're gone it doesn't matter who you are and and and but the thing with josie as well josie is very very demanding he pushes you to the limit he's very very demanding and when you have a year or two with josie you know because you're always pushing yourself you always he always pushes you to the limit sometimes he just gets a bit too much and then that's where the fractions start to come you know the plays a little bit of fraction between here and there between him but I think when he left the second time we kind of knew was coming we saw that one coming the first time we didn't see it coming but the second time we kind of saw it coming because we could see it building up and we just knew okay it's going to happen it's a matter of time it's going to happen and then it happened we didn't we felt bad but I think the first time was when it kind of hit us.

1:00:06Yeah, really hard. Yeah, really hard the first time. Because I remember we were all in tears in the dressing room. Oh, yeah, we were all in tears. Really? Yeah. Footballers. Yeah. Wow. Grown men. Absolutely grown men. Frank was in tears. Frank and Jose were like close, very close. I know people talk about him and Jose. No, him and Frank were very close. Frank was in tears. Frank was sobbing. like and you see Didier everybody was but Frank was a guy kind of hit us like really really bad he went around shook everybody's hands hugged a few people people he people he got on well hugged people he didn't

1:00:47what about you did you get a hug or had a hug yeah I would hope so I got a hug yeah but that's how come on tell us who got a hug obviously as footballers if you're not playing the manager's getting sad. Of course. You'll be happy he's leaving. It's what he's leaving. And that's what happened. So he knew the players that were waiting, that were happy that this happened. So he gave them a handshake. But, you know, the ones that are very close to him, you know, he gave a hug. Was he a different person when things were not going well? Oh, yes. As a coach. Oh, yes. I think that's something I don't know about now.

1:01:23Obviously, now he's a bit more matured. I'm not sure. I don't think he'll ever challenge that much. He's still causing troubles in Turkey I had. But back then, I think when things were going his way, he'll let you know. When we lost, when we start losing games, when we lost very important games, like boring games, when we lost a game, you don't see him. He doesn't come down in the training ground the next day. He doesn't come down on the pitch. So he comes to the training and he sits upstairs in his office and he gets his assistant, whatever, so they take care of training. He doesn't come down.

1:01:59He's pitched. He's angry. He's grumpy. He sees you on the hallway. He doesn't say hi to you. He walks past you like you didn't exist. Hi, boss. He just walks past you. We had to go back on the weekend and win. Yeah. And then his friends with us. And oh, there you go. That's Jose. That's how he knew. That's how we can get the best out of us. He knew that. He pushed us to the limit. And we understood that. You know what I mean? He sits in his office, looking at us from his office, and doesn't calm down, doesn't speak to anybody. Quite scary for the players. You have to intimidate. Exactly. If you can't deal with that, you're in trouble.

1:02:44I spoke to him today. He came on my podcast, and he said to me, Mikel, if I dealt with the players today how I dealt with you guys, I will be in jail right now.

1:02:57It's true. the players they can't handle that they can't handle that they'd be on the phone to their parents to their agents and before you know it they want to hook the players out of the club and it's just and it's true you know he said Mikael I can't speak to the players I can't now put a young player at 17 18 in a room and get his arms tied behind his back

1:03:23you know he gave it to us you know if we're losing a game and we're walking to the dressing room in the first half, you know, you know, we're walking. So he has this, we're walking. Everybody's sitting. Oh, we're thinking, who's going to get the bollock in that right now? And we're walking, we're all shivering. You know, we took off the shirt. Everybody's got a towel trying to dry ourselves, keep ourselves warm. He's in the toilet. Yeah, it just takes the time. He's in the toilet. It comes, it comes. It takes the time. We're sitting, everybody's waiting. Two minutes, three minutes. You don't see him.

1:03:56You don't hear. the whole place is silent quiet the physios the doctors everybody's hiding and then he walks in and his his how do you call it flies down his flies down yeah I can tell where you're doing that don't do it too often because it's starting to look a bit suspect his fly his fly is down his belt and everything is open his shirt his his tie everything is like and then he comes in front of us in front of us and then he starts that's when he starts doing his flies his his his And he doesn't say anything. And he starts to do this. Fingered. Fucking hell. Who's going to get it? And then he kicks off.

1:04:36My word. And then he kicks. You, my love. Where did you guys sleep last night? It goes. It goes into everybody. It went on to Makaleli one time. We're playing. I remember we're playing a game at Watford. We're losing one nil. Walk into the first half. And he said to Claude. Claude, you, what are you doing? Claude McAlellan, in case you haven't realized today, we're wearing black. We're going to wear in blue. We're wearing black. Pass the ball to the guys who are wearing black. And Claude was like this. Because Claude never got it. Because Claude was a senior player. He never got it. But Jose lost it that day.

1:05:21And he said to Michael Balak, you Michael do not come to my country Portugal to buy a house no don't come to Portugal don't come next to my house to buy a house buy a house somewhere else what is that got to do with the game but that's just jokes ripped into both of them took both of them off as well after ripping so they never walked into the game and then we went back you know in the second half we won the game 2-1 walked in and he was so happy everybody was happy it's just the way he gets the best yeah well you've been so generous with your time that i think um i've got loads more to talk to you about so we're going to turn this into two episodes but for this one that's it can't wait for the next i can't wait

1:06:20OK, so we didn't win the World Cup but that doesn't mean we can't have a party Me, Alan and Micah are back from New York and looking forward to the start of a new domestic season but we wanted to have a night out with as many of you as possible to talk football and have a bit of fun So if you fancy coming to see The Rest is Football live, we're doing the show at London's Royal Festival Hall on Friday, September 4th. Wear your new shirts and come with your new season optimism. Tickets available at therestisfootball.com.