Steve Parish: Why UEFA’s Ruling On Crystal Palace Is A Huge Mistake

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2:08Hello and welcome to the Rest is Football. I think we can call this an emergency podcast. Alongside me is a friend of the pod. He's been on before, the Crystal Palace chairman Steve Parish. whose club has been, well, what's the word, downgraded, relegated, some might say shafted by UEFA. Following their FA Cup triumphs, they qualify for the Europa League, but because of the multi-club ownership rules, they've been demoted to the conference league where they'll even have to pre-qualify. Must have been a testing few days, Steve. Yeah, I mean, the pre-qualification thing was another surprise. I mean, the news just gets worse and worse every day.

2:48But of course, we're absolutely devastated by... We've won the greatest days in the club's history, if not the greatest day in the club's history. And we all thought we'd qualify for a very prestigious European competition. But look, we're still fighting. There's an appeal process. Appeal process, yeah. So we go to Cass, which is the court of arbitration. And we're very hopeful. We think we've got great legal arguments. We don't think this is the right decision by any means. We know unequivocally that John didn't have decisive influence over the club. Tell people who John is. So John Texter, who was the principal of Eagle Football, who was the shareholder that fundamentally has the conflict, he didn't have decisive influence over the club.

3:31We know we proved that beyond all reasonable doubt because it's a fact. And that is specifically in the rule that somebody has to have a genuine influence. Yes, so it all hinges on that. It all hinges on the fact that one person or one entity need to have decisive influence over two clubs. The first principles of it being that whilst you're in a competition, nobody can decide who wins, I guess, or share players. I don't really know specifically what they're worried about, but they don't want a conflict in a competition where people are conflicted in terms of are they working for one club or the other club.

4:07That clearly is not the case. John's now sold, so it absolutely won't be the case when we get to the competition. People will look, and I did myself because I remember last year there was talk that Manchester City and Girona were in the same competition. They both qualified for the Champions League and it looked like one of those clubs might be left out or taken out like you have or demoted to another competition. That didn't happen. What's the difference this year? So like you, I would go to the Premier League summer meeting and people would be scrambling to try and resolve issues that they might have had.

4:41I think Aston Villa had a Portuguese club and Brighton had a Belgian club. So this would all go on once the qualification was resolved. And the test date, I think, was June the 3rd previously. So in the case of Man City and Girona, they found out they qualified for Champions League. and then even if they knew through the season that it might be a possibility, they didn't have to do anything about it until it was a fact. This year, for some reason, they changed the date that they wanted people to have qualified effectively to the 1st of March 2025. Were you aware of that? I wasn't personally aware of it.

5:17And frankly, nobody at Crystal Palace thinks they're part of a multi-club. So even if we had been aware of it, we wouldn't have thought it was relevant to us. They did send around some circulars. They didn't send them directly to me. They sent a circular to our info at CPFC address. But notwithstanding that, you know, we're not part of a multi-club organisation. So we just didn't think the rule had any relevance to us. Also, it was a circular, I think, looking at in hindsight, that says they will change the rule. It wasn't carved in stone. I don't think it was going to happen. Some would say, well, if you've got John Texter and he's also involved with Lyon, the other club in this, who've managed to keep their place.

5:52People would say, well, it is a multi-club thing. What's the difference? Well, I think most people would think multi-clubs, first of all, are clubs that are controlled by the same person or completely controlled by the same individual. I think that's what most people's... Like Manchester City, they've got 11 clubs, haven't they? Something like that around the world, yeah. Yeah, and I don't know what the arrangements are, but I assume they've got the power to take every decision in those clubs. When we've seen clubs like Red Bull both play in the same competition, where clearly they've found a way of delineating their governance, ours is already so separate.

6:24But, you know, we don't know anyone at Lyon. We don't do anything with Lyon. We haven't lent any players from them. We haven't loaned them any players. It's just basically a question that you've got somebody that's actually invested at some point of those clubs. And, you know, there's this term decisive influence, which I think for most people would say, can you actually decide that something happens in a club? Not do you have one vote out of four in a situation where even that vote is never really applied. You know, everybody knows that me, the team at the club run the club. very well supported by my partners and nothing's ever gone through a vote.

6:59We've never wanted to do anything with any of these other clubs. I don't particularly personally like the multi-club model, so it's not something that we've ever participated in or wanted to have anything to do with. And that frustration is what led John to wanting to sell. So all of his public pronouncements before the 1st of March were how he didn't have any influence, he couldn't get anything done, and as a consequence, he wanted to sell. And he put it up for sale before the 1st of March deadline and subsequently sold just after. We talked about the Manchester City Girona, you talked about the multi-club influences, Red Bull being one.

7:32Do you think there's an element here of rules for the big boys and perhaps something else for the others? It feels that way, doesn't it? You want to think, I tell you, everybody at face value, I want to think that people want to do the right thing. It feels so obvious it's the right thing that we go into the competition, that we want the right to go in. that I'm still hopeful that the right answer can be found. I don't think that people are sitting around saying, we'll favour this club, we won't favour the other one. I think there's just more effort that goes into solving those problems and finding a way around it.

8:06That's what I feel probably. Could you sense this was coming? Because it'd been rumbling, hadn't it? I'd heard it for the few weeks and I kept thinking, no, that's not as ridiculous, not as loud. But could you see it coming or did it actually, when they made the decision, did it shock you? I mean, we were so wrapped up in the win of the cup final, it sort of unravelled, didn't it? Because Lyon actually only qualified for the conference league. And they only qualified for the conference league with a 98th minute goal. And the last game of the season, somebody gave away a penalty. And I think Laav scored the penalty to win 3-2 against Strasbourg.

8:39Strasbourg went down one. Lyon went into the conference league. And then a couple of weeks after the cup final, there was the French cup final. PSG beat Reims, I think. And they were already in the Champions League. Therefore, they didn't need the Europa League space. And therefore, Lyon got into the Europa League by default. So it really kind of unraveled over a slow period of time. And for me, first of all, I had no knowledge that you had to do anything for the 1st of March. And frankly, there were two other problems. Even if I had, there's nothing we could do about it. So there's nothing the majority owners of Crystal Palace could do to remedy the issue.

9:14This is fundamentally a rule to which we couldn't comply because it was only the minority shareholder that could choose to take action. Now, the action they say they chose was to put their shares up for sale, which was then completed after the date. You know, we feel that there are a lot of very genuine mitigating circumstances and more than enough wriggle room to put us into the competition. It's a bit of irony here, isn't it? Because I know we've had many conversations about football and about governance. And you're a stickler for the rules, aren't you? I mean, PSR rules, you've never had in clubs.

9:47No. Not even clubs. Does that make it even more frustrating? Of course. Of course it does. I mean, I think that everybody knows in football that we try and do things the right way. We obviously fight for the position of our club and clubs like us, but we respect other people's position. We go into open forums. We make our opinions known openly. We don't hide in the shadows and we don't break any of the rules. One of the things that I don't like about the whole multi-club thing is that clubs collaborating can be a way around all of the financial rules that are going to place. So frankly, we don't really want any part of it.

10:27So it's frustrating, of course. Forgive me, I'm not quite sure how these things work, but Nottingham Forest played a part in this because obviously they've benefited from it because they've moved out from conference league qualification to now being in the Europa League. Yeah, so we were told that, and I think it's been made public. I mean, there's basically these things seem to be played out in public. There seems to be a lot of confidentiality that comes out of certain organisations. But we're led to believe that that's the issue, that if there wasn't somebody that wanted to get in as a consequence, then there wouldn't be a problem.

11:02So in many ways, probably, yes, somebody else's ambition. Yeah, I mean, people have got to look at themselves, haven't they, in terms of what they do. You know, some people will say it's fine, some people will say it's not. I mean, I don't really have control of that. You know, I only have control of what UEFA do, or I don't have control of that, but I have control of the arguments that we put forward to UEFA. This is a price you have to pay for qualifying for European football, Steve, so you're first time in your history. And then this happens, it must be. I think it does look bad, because I think for smaller clubs like us, we're a medium-sized club, let's say.

11:35This is the dream, right? This is what keeps football alive. This is why everybody goes because they think one day they might win a cup, and as a consequence, they might qualify for Europe. And of course, people are saying, oh, you're in the Conference League. That's fine. I mean, if you win the Europa League, you get into the Champions League. These can be defining moments for football clubs, can completely change the course of history forever for you as a club. So it is a major thing. I think it's one of those things that football has to have a look at itself and say, what outcomes do we want?

12:04Do we want clubs that are winning cup competitions to get into European competition? Is that something we want? Or is it more important if you finish sixth or seventh? And I'm not saying that I know the answer to that. Well, if you go back in the history of European club football, there used to be something when I played called, I actually won the damn thing, called the European Cup Winners' Cup. And that was the thing. And that's why when they did change the rule, the thing, that that's why plays for the cup winners of the countries was part of the European competition, I believe. So I don't think you have to find your point about being cup winners.

12:39Well, although I'm led to believe that there are forces that don't want the cup winners to get into that competition. Because perhaps they don't want small clubs that might suddenly win an FA Cup. Totally. Yeah, totally. I think it's a mistake on so many levels, right? Because I do think football lives off the dream. You know, there's a long tail of supporters that support lots of clubs. and they think that what goes on in these tournaments could one day be relevant to them. I think it goes back to the Super League, doesn't it? If people feel they're locked out of these competitions, then I think a lot of the interest on, you know, the broad interest in football could drain away.

13:14But obviously I think that, you know, and I understand there's other people that don't think that. The bottom line is, in this instance, we're not part of a multi-club. The person that was involved didn't have decisive influence. There are many other legal points that we've got, you know, about the validity of the rule and the date and the way it's communicated and lots and lots of stuff. And hopefully when we go to Cass, you know, we'll get the right answer. I presume you'll have to hire lawyers and all that kind of stuff for it or not. It's crazy. The legal fees are crazy. I mean, it's depressing about football.

13:45The amount of stuff now that ends up in these places is just bad for football. You know, I really do think that. And I hate the fact that we're having to pursue these things in this way. but I do think that most fair-minded football supporters think that it's the right thing that we're going to the Cup Your fans are doing a march aren't they? Yeah good on them Tuesday night I don't quite know when this will be we're actually in New York at the moment where you can probably hear cars and sirens and all sorts because we're in New York City because we've been here for the world What do you think about the Club World Cup?

14:17Well I've got feelings about it really I mean I'm really pleased for everyone at Chelsea you know congratulations to them I thought it was a sensational performance. They've been excellent in the whole tournament. Look, it's interesting, isn't it, for us? If you're in football, big European sides but playing big South American sides, you can't say that that isn't interesting and it doesn't have a layer of excitement to it. Obviously, the calendar, the strain it's putting on players, when it's being played, I think FIFA would probably admit it's the first version of this tournament and there are a lot of stadiums that weren't full and maybe they'll revisit how they do it.

14:55But look, there's always been a Club World Cup. You know, the scale of it, the size of it, the format of it, you know, I think probably needs looking at. But by the end of the tournament, you know, it was a pretty fun day yesterday. It was a real competitive game. You know, there was no doubt both teams wanted to win that game and it was a good spectacle of football. And so, look, on balance, I have to say, it's been an enjoyable week or so following it. If you win your appeal, you could be in it in four years, Tom. Yeah, I think it's quite tough. Quite tough. I think that's been something I don't think.

15:25You'd have to go on some journey for that. Yeah, look, I mean, again, if these things, if there is an access that's based on sporting merit to these things and we can manage the load on players and we don't damage the domestic leagues, the big issue with these tournaments, you know, we've got a 20-team vibrant domestic league. The domestic leagues provide enjoyment and utility to people in countries all the year round, don't they? And that shouldn't be sacrificed, you know, for competitions. I do think we've got to look at the amount of football. I think we've got to particularly look at the amount of international football, you know, with the Nations League and releasing players.

15:59And the strain on the players is, you know, we all know they earn a lot of money and all that stuff, but it is tough on the players. But, you know, that doesn't mean that the tournament wasn't great and I didn't like aspects of it. Yeah, absolutely. Back to the Palace issue. What's the timeframe now in terms of appeal? When can your supporters know what is going to go? Yeah, so as I understand it, we get the written ruling that we had last week. So we get the written version of it with all the detail. And then apparently the appeal's 10 days. I mean, I think the Conference League draw is early August.

16:31Who within New Aford makes this decision? Do you know? Does it go all the way to the top to the President of Sheffern? And if so, I hope they listen to this podcast and perhaps common sense. Of course. I think Mr Sheffern could resolve this situation. I think it would be a very good look if he did resolve the situation because I think most people think that it's right that we're in the competition. As it stands, the way, you know, and again, this is maybe one of the problems, you know, if you're not in UEFA's orbit, you don't really know how any of it works. And if you're not in the ECA or any of these organisations, I think that it was an independent committee, apparently, that made the decision that we weren't in.

17:09I presume the appeal will have to be fairly quick because the competition was starting in the not too distant future. I think the draw for the conference league is on the 4th of August. I think you'd have to check that. But yeah, so I think it needs to be wrapped up by the end of July. Yeah. Okay. Let's take a little bit of a break, and then I want to come back with a bit more good news. Because I've not seen you. Yes. Well, not in terms of the podcast, since you won an FA Cup. We did. We did. We did. Yeah. We'll be back in a minute.

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19:31Welcome back to The Rest is Football with Steve Parrish and me, Gary Lennicka, today. Steve, I interviewed you just after you won the FA Cup and you were so ecstatic. And it was a beautiful moment. You was there with your boy and it was... I mean, he hasn't had to wait as long as you, has he? No. No, he thinks we do it every year. Describe now, you know, you can go back and look back at it, how magical that must have felt. The first trophy, first major trophy for Crystal Palace. And it's been a long history. How do you feel about it now, looking back? Oh, you know, it's just a sensational moment.

20:08For me personally, you know, I've wanted Crystal Palace to win the FA Cup since my first memory. The FA Cup was the only live going on television when we were kids, you know. And, you know, you would crowd around the television from the early morning, every move of the teams, you know, leaving the hotel on the coach. And of course, you know, it was all magical then because you didn't have these kind of live feeds. So I wanted Palace to win the FA Cup, which was arguably probably bigger than winning the league when we were kids. since I was a kid. And then 1990, we got there with Wrighty and Brighty and the team.

20:40And unfortunately, it fell, you know, in the last few minutes. Then having taken over the team, I managed to get us there and, you know, with everybody's help, obviously with Alan and the boys, we got us there in 2015. And again, you know, we fell over at the last hurdle. So, you know, it was one of those moments where you just want to break that glass ceiling. You know, you're fed up with glorious failure, you know, of being the underdog and not quite getting there. And look, everything went for us on the day. I think we've probably got a decision that went a bit our way. But, you know, we've had...

21:09You need that. We have 164 years of decisions not going our way in the big game. So, look, and the outpouring from the fans was incredible. You know, I wasn't really prepared for what it would mean to people. You know, and in a way, you want every club that hasn't experienced that to experience it. Because for the people in the community, it's just absolutely, you know, incredible. So it's great for the club and hopefully we can use it as a platform to go on from here. I relate it a little bit to when Leicester won. I mean, the FA Cup as well, that was just as special in a way as the league. I mean, the league was the miracle.

21:41I mean, that genuinely was, it couldn't happen. But that feeling of, because Leicester had never won the FA Cup either. And it was, it's just a beautiful thing. It's daft in it how much importance and significance we give to the success of our football team. But it is something about, there is something about overcoming it. One of the moments I had, I went to the cup final the year before, and Man United would be the first to admit, they don't have a great team. You know, it wasn't one of their best ever teams. Man City, again, in the final, fantastic team. Man United, they win things. That's what they do.

22:12They win things, right? Even when they're not good. Even when they're not that good, they won the cup that year. And it was a real lesson to me that winning, in some ways, you're your own worst enemy, you know, with winning. And I think for communities like Leicester, communities like South London and Crystal Palace, It proves something to yourself, you know, and I think it gives everybody some hope. So they are magical, magical moments in your life. This is probably a slightly unfair question, but Oliver Glasner's appointment, it seems to me you've found a special coach there. Do you think perhaps that's your best coaching appointment?

22:44That's why it's an unfair question. Yeah, I think, look, you know, I've got so much time and respect for, you know, all the managers that have managed the club and done sterling work. You know, everybody comes in a different moment, don't they, with a different challenge. Oliver, I think it's fair to say, is part of a new breed of managers that are embracing working with people, working with the team in a different way, the club in a different way, and working with data in a different way. Managing how they manage the team based on not just what they see, there's still instincts and everything, but also what the data tells them.