Thierry Henry: Lionel Messi, Wenger v Guardiola & Arteta’s Arsenal - From The Archives

31:37So you brought me to that story. And so I'm there, you know, packing my bag. I'm about to leave. I'm about to leave. And everybody started to cry. You know, understand, a year without seeing them. So they were all crying. But I bring you back to what I told you before. For the first time in my life. And I know people will say, oh, come on, man. For the first time in my life, I could have my inner child with me in my hand at that moment because they were crying for him. Not for the football player, not for the fame, not for nobody. They made me at that moment like they were crying for the human being, for me, which sometimes we all go, we put our cape and we go, okay, I have to do what I have to do.

32:31I provide, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. it's it's just normal daddy can i get this daddy can i get yeah but for the first time like out of nowhere they were not not out of the way it's because i didn't see them for a year don't get me wrong but they cried for me the human being and that's the first time i felt and i know people will say that's that's a bit much but it's first time i felt human and that's the first the first time i could like with my how can i say that i could like oh I felt like they touched my little guy like you know like my inner child I was like oh I put the back down yes I put the back down you know what I was chasing at the beginning that approval that I was looking from somewhere I got it and I got it from my kids my kids saved at that moment my kids saved me because I don't know where I was going because that COVID the COVID moment being alone hit me hard my kids

33:31Gary Lineker:saved me. People might find that hard to understand, aren't they? The great Thierry Henry was loved by everyone, who was regarded as this the greatest player ever to play in the Premier League. You're getting love every day off everyone, but then all of a sudden that touches you more than anything, which is amazing. What about you, Al? What about you, Al? Sorry to... No, no, my dad only ever told me that. He was proud of me once when I told you when I broke Jackie Milburn's record. Oh, yes. I mean, I know, I knew that they loved me. They didn't have to tell me, but it might have been nice if I got a bit more.

34:10Gary Lineker:Yeah, you did all right there. You did well there. I didn't get quite as much, but I knew what they were thinking. I knew how proud they were. They showed it in different ways. But Alan, how did that impact you? How did he, because I know you were just saying... I thought to myself, wow, I must have done fucking well for him to actually say that. But I always, I don't know, I used that as a, like you said earlier, you were probably frightened of failure, the fear of failing or whatever, or not doing well, or not being the greatest. I always used that as a strength because I sort of knew how, I knew they were super proud of me.

34:49Gary Lineker:I knew that they used to empty their money box to buy me football boots when I was a kid and everything else. I sort of used that as motivation for me that's why I had to do well I had to do well because I had to look after them and take care of them when I needed to do that so I used that as a great motivation for me to do well I go back to your point you know what was my motivation? my motivation was everybody that was in front of me so you Dennis Bergkamp and I'll go back to you but Dennis Bergkamp I always say apart from the freaks because Messi is not human Zizou not far from you know those guys how come you never got past me then?

35:37hey hey ZZ he took the baby out of the air Alan if I stayed longer you know Alan you know Oh, you know. Now it's warming up, me. Look at the rifle here, Gary. What's happening? You know. I got it. No, but joking aside, I'll be honest with you. Like, my source of motivation was always the guys that did it, that are doing it. So Dennis Bergkamp was my motivation. Why? Because Dennis Bergkamp used to arrive first in training, last leaving. Whatever drill we had to do, he's not trying to do something else. he was doing that drill to the tee. He was nasty as hell, by the way. He was. He had a sign.

36:26People always say, yeah, class. Yeah, ice, cold, ice, man, however you want to. He was nasty. In training, you take the ball. He's not far from kicking you or something. I love that about him. So I'm like, how am I going to take the keys away from this man? How am I going to do that? People might find this hard to believe because you were teammates that you wanted to take away the mantle from him and be the main man. Yeah, but this is what I mean. It's a collective sport, we all know. I never wished on anyone, I will be honest with you, I never wished on anyone starting before me to have a bad game.

37:06But I was wishing for him to open the door. Just open that door. If you open that door, I'll close it, swallow the key, bye-bye, it's over for you. But I have to show the man the most respect I can have. I see competition as respect for me. I don't see it as it's respectful. I have to show you why you're going to sit. I have to show you why you have to give me the free kick. I have to show you why you have to give me the penalties. Not because I scored him, because I'm better than you in training, because I eat better than you, because I sleep better than you, because I walk better than you, because I wear my shorts that way, because my socks over my knees look better than your socks.

37:48It doesn't matter. Before you go on, talk me from that because you look like a model on the pitch. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. Your shirt, it was tucked in, the big shorts, and then your socks were all the way up. I used to do that all the time. Are you listening to this, Alan? I'm in the room. No, look, I'm going to give you that. I always say to people, I used to get hammered by my own fans. I said it so many times. I'm sure you heard that story before at Iberi. what I used to hear. I couldn't understand in the beginning what they were saying, and then I started to understand. I was like, oh, it's better when you don't understand, man.

38:21So I'm on the side. First and foremost, I'm pulling from playing number nine and I'm making like everyone will tell you, oh, that was amazing. But at the time, when you're stepping out of the box, and I was going wide to get my ball, oh my God. And you know how tight it was, Ibery. so man sorry what the fuck are you doing here nobody would ever score a goal from here and what the hell are you doing with your socks over your knees you look like a ballet dancer what are you doing and your your gloves they're not even proper blue that's a pale blue with short sleeve what what is that Muppet I was like oh that's a bit extreme you know that's from the home fans yeah but look it was our time you can understand I love look Look, I have nothing, but I was just telling you a story.

39:13That's exactly what happened. And then you turn, and then Ricey gets up. What the hell are you doing? Strikers cause goals in the box. I'm like, oh, my. How am I going to make people understand the player that I am? I'm not Alan Shearer. This is why I'm going to go back to you, Alan. I'm not Alan Shearer. I don't have that in my locker. This guy was the master. The box is his fucking kingdom. mine was outside. Like I can come and have a meal with Alan in the box from time to time. But if not, he's going to hit the, if I'm playing with Alan, if I was playing with him, like I'm not going to battle with him in the box.

39:55Like I'm not going to hit a lot, but I needed to show people who I was, how I was, what type of player I was. And from time to time, you know, you work on what you're not, but I'm never going to show people my weaknesses. I'm going to bring you on my field. You understand what I mean? That's a sign of intelligence. But you had to battle Pat Rice, you had to battle your fans, you had to battle the guy that was before, you had to battle being compared to the great Alan Shearer. Everything is on the line. With your socks, you being called a ballet dancer. You know, I was wearing, remember at the time, gloves with short sleeves.

40:31That doesn't look that great. But that was me. How important is Arsene Wenger in your career? I say so many times, Alson opened my brain and Pep opened my eyes on the game. Alson was just the type of guy that, and we've all been in that situation, in this situation a bit more you, Micah, complaining to your coach. But you know when you go to the office and you're in your car and you just wake up and you lost the day before and you feel Alan and Gary like, this guy doesn't want to pass me the ball. I can feel it. you know they love he loves you know like as we do strikers he never gives me the ball in the right time where I want it I'm going to go and tell the boss about enough right you go you pump any light you stop you're not going to tell him this I'm going to tell him that if he ever wants to say something I want to let him talk this is it this is my time I go in and do a signal I'm going to tell him I walk in his office I didn't say anything I came out I felt like I was the best player in the world and he said something that I said so many times and I will repeat it again.

41:39So I came in and Freddie wouldn't mind. I was like, Freddie never passes the ball. He goes like, Freddie. Freddie Jomberg, yeah. Yeah, sorry. Can Freddie see you? Sorry. Can he see you? I'm like, he has eyes now? Can he not see me? What do you mean? Can he see me? He said, no, can he see you? I was like, I said, boss, what are you talking about? He said to me, don't ask yourself the wrong question. can freddy see you i'm like no he cannot see me no that's true he's usually has his head down so well start to think on how you should you should move with players so i started to think so yeah with dennis mostly you move however robert likes you to come short to do a one-two freddy likes to dribble so you need to be in his line of vision of dribble so i started to move and make runs in function of who had the ball instead of saying to myself making the same run with Colo Touré that I will make with Patrick Vera Colo Touré didn't have a long pass I'm making runs in behind you're stupid it's not Colo's fault I'm gonna kill him in two weeks for him to work on his long pass but right now he cannot make it why are you going long with Colo you can go long with Dennis you can go long with Reyes you can go long with Pires you can go long with Patrick vera you can't go along with with those guys so i started to adjust my game to them this is where alsan was brilliant because he was making you realize this type of stuff instead of me coming into the dressing room and just lose my mind for no reason i would have been upset you raise argument for no reason so he made me you know way smarter yeah you said pep about opening your eyes i was and i'm still but back in the days i was stubborn as hell like oh my gosh back he's still stupid is that what you're talking about no no no no no no no no i'm nice now no seriously alan if it if you don't bring if you don't bring me a fact i'm talking so we can talk all night i'm talking okay so i'm like i know i think i know my game you know you come out of of arsenal you're you're like okay i'm okay you go to barcelona and the guy starts to tell i'd write card in between but he comes and the guy starts to tell me you stay high and wide because we want to free space for Iniesta.

43:56And I'm looking and I'm saying, what the hell is he talking about, this guy? Like, he never saw me play. I can come in midfield, take the ball. He said, yeah, okay, I'm happy for you, but we're not doing this. You need to, every time Abidal has the ball, you need to make a run. And most of the time, you won't get it. And I'm like, wait, I'm going to mean, am I a decoy player now? From touching every single ball, every half, even when I didn't want it? yeah you have to go running behind if the player high line is for you and which is people are not stupid they were going with me then you free the space for andres inestate that comes down the line and then he can run and then you pick your poison i'm coming back from an upside position maneto gone i'm going too far into details but suddenly i'm like that won't work what is he talking about this guy suddenly that's exactly what happens every game we knew what we had to do every single details in game he was a freak on everything he controls everything and you're like that won't last yeah well it does last and every time you know he manages to there was something that's very that's brilliant for me with him with pep okay first and foremost now fullbacks are getting educated to go inside that's because of him you know fullback you overlap or you under however you want to call it but now they go inside and and whenever you speak about his teams you never remember who left it's a good point i don't i don't care like at one point big teams oh you remember when they had company yeah yeah they suffered they suffered for two years without company they suffered without aguerro they suffered without david silver they suffered without uh yeah tory yeah no it's interesting with pep isn't it because mika richards we said pep with pep he does seem to he's so confident as well isn't he in his own abilities to get the best out of everyone there it seems to me I mean you've played for him that as soon as a player gets upset and and wants to go he just goes go on then off you go is that true or what I would say with Pep first and foremost I said to you for me is the best that I've seen that's me and people that's my that's me but Pep is ruthless yeah and I experienced it and I could have I could have been there and because sometimes I used to travel and used to put me in the stand I'm 33 at that moment 32 like you make me travel and you put me in the stand so I could be here by right now and be bitter like a lot of players will be bitter just because at one point you have to recognize I was shite that's about it someone took my position yeah I opened the door like I did it to someone he took the key swallowed it you stay out Siri was it difficult to deal with it and difficult to deal with him at that point no it was difficult to deal with myself or allowing someone to go in front of me this is what i'm saying like pep the guy wants to win hello like that's how you have to see it that it's in the title if i'm in the stand it's because he can he thinks he can win without me so i was upset with myself for letting myself be in that position first and foremost but what i was trying to say to you i could be here now because he did that to me saying oh you know what no no he's ruthless and and i saw you nodding alan big clubs and big coaches don't wait for nobody i don't care who you are what you did and okay there was you have way of putting someone out you you know man city statue bye thank you very much and everything you always be a legend Bayern Munich, Barca, whatever.

47:33But at a big club, Gary, and you know it, you don't wait and don't act like you're surprised when they kick you out. You know the drill. You took the position of someone. This episode is brought to you by Wise. It's only when you start moving money between currencies that you really think about the exchange rate, the fee, and what might be hidden away in the small print. Whether you're living abroad, paying someone overseas, or just trying to manage your money across borders, you want a fair exchange rate, an easy transfer and no surprises along the way. Wise keeps things simple. Wise is a smart way to move the currencies you need around the globe.

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50:13Gary Lineker:Thierry, you've played at some unbelievable football clubs and you've been hugely successful. Where were you happiest? Look, I love my time at Barcelona. I didn't cry a lot in my football career. You know when I did that video to say bye to the fans? I don't know if you saw it because I decided to leave after the season. so I didn't have a proper goodbye or whatever. Then after I came back, whatever. But after that video, I cried right there. Like I realized I was leaving.

50:47For me, I know people will say, you know, I'm not like you, Alan. You know, you grew up Newcastle. So I can't then pretend that, oh my God, Arsenal is my life. Like a guy that grew up in Arsenal. You know, I will always respect that. You know, it's generation to generation. I just shut up and I respect that forever. But I became an Arsenal fan and I understood what it was because of the old guard, I will be honest with you. Fans also used to let you know. I used to love that with fans. Don't ever stop that. I remember we played a game and I explained that to you, Alan. You go through the tough moment.

51:18You know, the knees over, the socks, I got killed. I remember a game, Spartak Moscow, I will always remember. It's the first time in my life that the assistant comes or the coach comes, whoever comes with the number or the ref comes with the number and they put like, before I was walking, I was going to sub myself. I was so bad. Oh, my. And I see the number of Dennis Bergkamp. Nyong 'o Kanu came on. And when they subbed Dennis, the whole stadium obviously went, boo, no, no, I could hear, Terry should, I was like, oh, are they doing me like this? But he woke me up because I scored in the dying minute of the game.

52:03and you know why I was upset? I scored on the corner, header. That's when you know. But, you know, the point of that, the point of that is fan, the fans did let me know. You shouldn't be on that field, man. You need to do something before you leave that field. And that's a relationship I had with the Arsenal fans. So where I was the happiest, they knew when I was upset, sometimes they were going to let me know, Thierry, you're shite today. I loved that. I needed that. And they knew that about me. So it was authentic. I missed that part of the game. It was authentic. However you want to call me, Alan, Gary, Micah, whatever, it was authentic.

52:45Like I had arguments with Arsenal fans on the field, in the car park, in town. And it's not because, it's because we love, I love the Arsenal, they love Arsenal, so you're going to argue. I don't care who I am or whatever. Sometimes I was like, why are you screaming? 15 minutes to go, you should cheer us up. You know, it's 1-1. and like, oh, Thierry, no, you know. But it's the love that I have for Arsenal and it's very tough sometimes when you talk about Arsenal because to stay objective and be real, sometimes you need to just breathe. I can do that better. At the beginning, it was very tough to do it.

53:19But to go back to your question, Alain, Arsenal, because everything changed for me professionally, personally. I'm a Londoner. I always say I'm proud and so happy to be French. but I'm a Londoner. You had a little bit of a slow start Arsenal didn't you? You came from Juventus where you were playing wide and you came in and Wenger slightly changed your position. Did it take you a while to adapt? Yeah, first you know what I created to myself so many chances but you know what even if the goal was bigger I don't even know if I would have scored.

53:59Like What was okay-ish is I was creating chances. You know, I always say what's annoying for a striker is when he has none. Yep. You know, you can always score on finishing. Sorry, work. Sorry, my bad. On finishing. So I was like, okay. Then I scored at Southampton, I think, and I sold now early. Then again, I didn't play. But then people need to remember that I had to battle with Davos Schuker, Dennis Bergkamp, Njanko Kanu. Davos Schroker just won the golden boot at the World Cup a year ago. A year before, sorry, my bad. A year before. And Marco Vermas, if I want to play on the left, because that's the part of the wing I preferred.

54:38So you have to wake up early to move those guys. So every time I had a minute, I felt like I wanted to do everything at once, and you end up doing nothing. This is why the other day, you remember, Michael, when I had the discussion with Peter, and Peter Schmeichel was like, goalkeeper want to know that they're going to play. Strikers too? Like, do you think I want to have Alan Shearer behind me when I'm 19, he's on the bench, and I know he's God at Newcastle, and I'm starting? You don't even have a minute. You miss a control. They sing his name. Then he's back up on the bench. Are you mad? You know, you play like that.

55:16You play, you know, instead of controlling that ball, breathing, curve in the top corner, you don't even control it. You just smash it. And then that's what it was. I needed to adapt. I needed to understand. what I was, understand also what I needed to do, what they wanted for me, understand also the physicality and the intensity of the Premier League. It is different, isn't it? So you had to adapt to that. And then obviously once I understood all of that, we obviously have been great players around me, don't ever forget that. Then I understood what I had to do. Tell us about that rivalry with Manchester United.

55:49Did you enjoy that aspect of it? It's so weird because, yes, it was rivalry because it was first and second for a very long time, right? And then Chelsea came along, as we all know, that year you came to beat us for a one at Iberi. I think you went top of the table at that moment with Newcastle. And I think you went top of the table if I remember well. Did you choke again, Alan? Too busy drinking. Too, too, too. For me, it was, I go back. The more you see people fighting against each other, all that is is respect and fear. All that is is respect and fear. You know, if you ask all the Man United players now, they will tell you that they respected us.

56:33And I will tell you the exact same thing. And it's true, but people didn't want to hear it at the time. I had mad respect for that team. I know how it is to win and win and win and win and win. Those guys, like, were relentless. Like, it's tough to win every time. You have to give them a lot of credit. and we tried to stop them and then Chelsea came along and obviously now we all know it's a tough one, you know, but I just saw it as mad respect, mad respect, and I just, I couldn't wait every time to play against them. At times, there weren't even games. Let's all be honest. Like, it was just, it was just like battles.

57:13And so, yeah, I wasn't often involved in it. I'll be honest with you. I was letting the crazy guys fight with it and see where the ball was bouncing to try to run with it. But for me, it was all about respect, mad respect. I mean, when we talk about the players that we had to face in Sir Alex Ferguson, however you want to look at it, I know sometimes United cannot be everyone's cup of tea. But hey, you have to give respect to people that win and win and win and win and win. And we try to just party with them for a little while. Well, you certainly won a lot in your career. I think you won more in one season.

57:50Was that 2009? Yeah, Balsa. When you won more trophies in that season than Alan and myself winning their entire careers joined together. You know what? There's something I want to add about that season. And Alan, you said something that was very important. We go back to Pep. Pep is the only manager that made me understand that pressing is enjoyable. How did he do that? As a striker, what do you want to do? Stay as close to the goal? as close to the goal. Like if I can stay in the box and close to the box the whole game, that's a dream. So all we have to do, obviously, I line, like Alan, you would love to play for Man City now.

58:30Yeah, absolutely. Oh yes, please. Oh my gosh.

58:34Gary Lineker:You, but you would have scored six goals per half. We say that, don't we Gary, on a Saturday about who you'd like to play for and the number of chances. I mean, you look at Haaland now and the number of chances that he gets in that Man City team is like, wow, how many goals did we get there, by the way? It would be unbelievable. It would be a dream plan in that side. And I go back to the pressing point. Sorry, Gary, I go back to the pressing point. Is that because you're so high, you're actually in the box, actually doing your work? First and foremost, think. You don't have to run 40 yards with the full-back.

59:06If we manage to stay here, we stay here. All I have to do is to sprint five. Because everyone is so close to each other, so you sprint five yes the intensity has to be to the max but when you look at it you're telling me I'm going to stay in half of the opponent for the two halves by the box where do I need to sign absolutely like this is how you sell it for a striker where do I need to sign thanks to you thanks to all the strikers I say you because you're leading that pile with your style of play and the amount of goals that you score But I said to myself, how can I separate myself from Alan Shearer?

59:49I'm talking about early doors because I'm thinking about going to attack the king. Steady on Thierry, this is getting too much now. I mean, I'm feeling slightly nauseous here. Me too! I'm talking about, you have to give him that. We talked to goals in the Prem, longevity, you have to give him that. So I said, how can I be? Look at that smile on his face. How can I be on the same level in the eyes of people? But yet I need to separate myself because I'm not him. Yeah, you're a lot better at doing different things than I was though. No, but this is what I'm saying. This is what I'm saying. I cannot be in his.

1:00:25I'm not him. I'm not. So how am I going to do that? So I need to make people understand that I can score from outside of the box. But at the same time, so if you go outside of the box, you need to bring the assist thing in. I have to make people understand and I'm not having a go at you understand me well but in my mind I'm like I need to make people understand that a goal scorer can score from outside of the box and he cannot only wait for crosses or stay in the box or leave in between the two posts or leave not too far don't go too far from the box which don't get me wrong it's a skill more than a skill I couldn't do it I couldn't not touch a ball and still bang one without touching the ball before to get into my groove.

1:01:11I just couldn't. You guys had that. You guys had that. You could wait for one. Like if I just waited for one in the game, maybe I missed it. I needed to come in midfield and become lively. But at the time, I'm like, but if you're not there, Alan, if those guys were not there before doing that, what am I setting myself to try to improve on or to try to make sure that people are not going to put me in the same bracket as you because if i'm in the same bracket as you and i come on your field i hate stuff so i need to make sure that i can i can maybe do what you do and then bring what i do yeah absolutely and so then you kind of separate yourself so you you you kind of what can i bring to the position where they say ah that's since he arrived that has changed something that's that's very important for me you know it was very important and every night I'm thinking what can I bring to the game can I ask you leading from that it's obviously there's there's so much you can bring to the game that either Alan or myself wouldn't have had you can dribble past people and do all those kind of things but given your competitiveness about wanting to be the best how was it playing in the same team as Lionel Messi I go further Gary my thing was i didn't want to disappoint you didn't want to disappoint him whoever yeah coming back to my dad so i always had i didn't want to disappoint because i was always looking for that approval but look it's simple a competitor at the end of the day wants to win regardless if he is going to be the game changer or not you have to be dumb not to understand that you need to run for this guy.

1:03:01Yeah. So, I don't care about ego. I don't care about anything in my life. But, at one point, I love to compete. Who can make me win? If I look, if I look in the mirror and it's me, the main guy, okay, it's me. But it was Leo. So, Samuel Eto 'o or whoever. But mainly, for the, you will say that the, I mean, it was Messi's team. Let's all be honest. You don't have to. But, But you need to, at a particular moment, take your effing ego on the side, whatever you did before or you didn't do. When you arrive at Barcelona, you didn't win anything. I'm talking about myself. What did you win, Thierry? Nothing.

1:03:48So you look. You're like, okay, we're going to run for this guy. Okay, you're going to run for this guy. And this guy on the top of everything scores four every game. Man, what do you want me to say? you have to be dumb and stupid to turn around and go like oh me too me too no no no no no no it's all right i'll do my things i'll put pressure i have to score my goals also because i'm not a nobody too but you need to understand that game recognizes games and what people do not understand sometimes big teams big players big competitors important players are willing to do whatever it needs to be done to win regardless of who is going to be the front man i i i i don't i didn't mind that however you want to look at it and people can say yeah it's easy to say no i did it you think it's easy for me to to touch 25 balls per half and then you touch only four It is not easy.

1:04:44It is actually annoying. But what are you trying to achieve? You be good or winning six trophies? Well, the best is you to be outstanding and winning six trophies. But look, you had a freak. I'm good with that. You call him a freak. I'm sure you mean that in a very complimentary way. Yeah, obviously. You mean a freak in terms of his abilities? I know that. That's clear.

1:05:07Gary Lineker:Not in the way Micah is, but yeah. how was he you know day to day someone like that that amount of talent have you ever seen anything that compares I saw early doors Messi really when he was that's his first Ballon d 'Or year I've seen a lot I myself did a lot yeah this guy like it is not normal and I know people will talk about he walks do you know how hard it is I can tell you you know how hard it is to carry a ball on every single action. It's grueling. Every single action. Not, not, not, yes, I know people always, I don't like when people don't balance it out. So he walks when he doesn't have the ball.

1:05:57Maybe sometimes, maybe a lot sometimes, maybe not. Can we talk about when he has the ball then? because every single time is acceleration, stop it, turning, going, getting kicked, getting up. You know how hard it is on your body to do that. The only guy that I've seen in history that could do that, or you guys will mention Gaza, I'm sure, Maradona, but we had one that was close in our league. I say our league, so you see when I say that because I'm a Londoner. But in our league, is Eden Hazard. I don't care what people say. Eden Hazard was very close into, I'm talking about every time he touched the ball, he's running at you.

1:06:38There was never a layoff or something too easy. He's turning, he's running. So obviously you're going to be tired because sprinting demands a lot on your body. This is why when you see a 100-meter dash run, at the end, those guys can't speak. A guy at a marathon speaks. At the end of a marathon, you talk to a Kenyan, he speaks and i'm talking about high level athlete right a kenyan after a marathon after a marathon he speaks the guy after 200 or 400 or 100 yeah can't speak so carry a ball on the grass getting kicked having vision protecting it running on one leg get oh can can can he maybe walk sometimes If you make me win, you can walk anyway.

1:07:33Only him, youngsters, don't do that. Don't walk. It's not good advice from a coach, is it? We're talking about Messi. We're talking about Messi. No, Gary, I've never seen that. I've never seen a guy that whenever he wanted to go to goal, he was going to go. Whenever. Can I just ask what he's actually like, though, Thierry? Because people always want to know. Everyone always asks me. When we do this podcast, what's Gary like? What's Alan like? What's Thierry? People generally want to know what these people are like. I played early doors. It doesn't really matter for me. All the grades that I played with.

1:08:14And Alan is there. Gary is there. Every guy that are special in their way are killers. Competitively. I don't care who you are. And you know why? Because you're already very demanding with yourself, so you're not going to take shit from nobody. So at my level, when I compare it to Leo, at my level, everyone would tell you I was rough at time for nobody. No one. We're here to win. That's all I want to know. I don't want to go, Micah, and have a coffee with you. I don't want to go on holiday with you. I want to know if you're going to fight, cover me, and be a good teammate. That's all I wanted to know.

1:08:58The rest, you buy your thing, you do your thing. The drinking part, maybe no and whatever. I'm not pointing at you, Michael. That's what I'm saying. But I'm just saying I was always going to be harsh on everything after we didn't have to be friends. We needed to be good teammates. And those that don't understand that don't belong in big clubs and don't belong in the level of being competitors. So the higher you go, just imagine how Leo was. Leo was very demanding. Not very talkative, but don't have a run with him. He wants to win. So me, you, anyone, don't have a run with what he's trying to build.

1:09:36And when a competitor, you come in the way of him building his legacy, all the best. Was he easy to play with? Leo, okay, so you know why I call the freaks the freaks? Go on. Okay, so I explain. This is why I respect Denis Vercombe so much. Okay, I'll explain. So, I don't consider myself a freak, but at times I did so many things that were against the game. I explained. At times I had to, you know, the goal against Tottenham, I had to give the ball to Denis, if you look at the replay. I had to release that ball a long time before I done it Ledley King. I didn't respect the game. But I scored. So at the end of the day, it doesn't matter.

1:10:28So Zidane, he dribbles four players. Technically, you should have released that. You're not respecting the game, but because he's so good, then suddenly he becomes good. Do you understand what I mean? And Dennis, this is why Dennis and Leo, it's not difficult to play with those guys, but sometimes you find yourself in a situation where it's difficult to anticipate what they're going to do because they just do something crazy. and you're like, I should have moved, whopped the corner. You're like, oh, oh. And at one point, he should have given you the pass and you're like, hey, give me the ball, goal.

1:11:01Oh, all right, okay, then I'm not going to say anything. And this is why Dennis Bergkamp is actually, this is why I said those guys are freaks because even myself, sometimes I did stuff when I looked, I went back home, I went, thank God I scored because, oh, I forgot him. A penalty spot, oh my God, I should have reversed that pass and I just took it and I wanted to dribble everybody. and that can be annoying at times i'm telling you that myself but leo listen there is nothing complicated there is nothing difficult the guy was a freak i won everything with him and at one point even if at one point he forgot something or he didn't do something you you you there for the good you're there for the good and you have to understand that it's about winning no matter what So whatever upsets you usually or don't upset you, the guy makes you win.

1:11:51Swallow it, go to sleep and wake up, you know, and tomorrow it's a better day. There's nothing to do. But Dennis, for example, I go back. Dennis was always going to play what the game was asking him to do. Always. And that's something that I found so amazing because I knew at one point I was like, fuck it, I'm taking this. Are you mad? I believe more in my abilities than this guy. No disrespect to nobody, but I'm like, percentages, I can finish this, not him. You know, but then you realise also that sometimes you need to give and Dennis helped me a lot with that one. And obviously, like I said with Alan, where you're like, okay, sometimes you got to give also when you can score.

1:12:34But Leo, was it easy? For me personally, it was easy. You mentioned, you said something about giving the ball around the penalty spot. and we've got to talk about the moment my debut 2005 i believe it was no my god don't do that man city well was that the um was that hybrid arsenal versus manchester city and i'm on the bench and i see something totally ridiculous that day and it was you and robert perez doing that ridiculous no no no no no well explain to the to the listeners and the viewers that that penalty people are still copying it to this day did you see a card last week there's a lot of stuff that i can take the blame for why did you say we i didn't mess up anything it's a team game it's a team game okay see so now you're going it's about you okay So now you know what?

1:13:36I thought it was a team, Thierry. No, the only guy that can speak. And first and foremost, if you know the rule. So first and foremost, Robert fucked it up.

1:13:45Gary Lineker:Not me. Like Gary, like the other day. Icardi fucked it up. Icardi did. Not the guy that pushed the ball. Okay, thank you. That's just a fact. And by the way, I don't know who was the ref, but he doesn't know the rule. The ball has to make one lap to be retaken. Yes, I agree. To not be retaken. The ball just went pop, pop. It should have been me second. I went straight away to see him. I said, the ball didn't move. And he went, oh, I said, the ball didn't move. Check in your book. But Robert, when you see Robert, Robert, ask him, qu 'est-ce que tu as voulu faire? Qu 'est-ce que tu as voulu faire?

1:14:19Qu 'est-ce que tu as voulu faire? French lessons here. Qu 'est-ce que tu as voulu faire? What are you doing? Yeah. What did you want to do? Like, I, I, I, the only mistake I did there is not, is, I should have pushed it to him because i i wasn't scared like i don't know why he he but hey i thought you were going to talk about how i not make you yes talk tell us about that yeah i thought it was going to be that i was ready but you know problems mikey you've never mentioned that no and then can you tell them what i did after he's such a horrible man you know horrible horrible guy so he was playing was playing and i don't i don't even know if i've got footage of this but my hero everyone knows i support arsenal but i'm making my debut i don't know if it was a home against arsenal away it might have been at the um that high bit at the time anyway and we all know tieri likes to drift to that left position and i'm playing right back and i'm just in awe of him i'm looking at him i'm like wow and that's why i talk about the socks were prestige the shorts were fantastic the shirt was fitted.

1:15:33He's definitely had it tapered. That was not a standard size kit. I'm not having it. You've had that tapered 100%. So then the ball comes over and you know me rushing over, whatever it is, trying to make a tackle, trying to make a name for myself. He's megged me. And then he's just turned around and winked at me. So my hero thinking, oh my God, I'm thinking this guy He's a wanker, eh, lady?

1:16:04Gary Lineker:Spired my... Ruined my confidence. He said to me, Gary, what he normally did is he found the biggest dope on the pitch and then he stood next to them where he knew he was going to get most joy. I'll be honest. I was always going where someone was bleeding. And you were bleeding. Sorry, my God. I'm just like a shark. That's an easy target. An easy target, sorry. That's crazy. But what you don't know, Thierry, is that you winking at him was actually the pinnacle of his career. Thierry, what are the greatest moments for you in your career, the greatest successes? I mean, I was actually at Highbury that day that you flicked the ball up and turned and volleyed it in the top corner.

1:16:42And I was like, oh my God, what a goal that is. But I mean, there's lots of individual things, but what stands out for you looking back? There's a lot of things that comes in my head. At the beginning, like I always said, I was very much like, I don't know why, but because of my dad and because of how I was, I was like, legacy was title. Always. For me, legacy was title. In my head. Legacy is title. You got to win titles. You got to win titles. You got to win titles. And then... Well, you've won everything. At the end of my career and even more now, I'm like, it's not that. It's how you transcend people and what you transmit for me.

1:17:18People relate to that. I don't care what you say. People relate to that. And for a very long time, and Alan is there for a very long time, I'm like, but the big Alan Sherrod didn't leave Newcastle. I couldn't understand. I'll be honest. I couldn't understand. I couldn't understand because in my mind, I'm like, why is he not challenging himself? Why is he not going to try to find out what he could have achieved? But I couldn't understand because I was still in the mode of my dad telling me, yeah, you have to do this, you know. And I wasn't playing for my boyhood club. So I can't understand. But now with the way I am right now, it's about what you transmit and how you transcend people and i learned that that in abundance and i think that's valuable and for a long time i didn't i didn't i didn't value it so at the very beginning like i would have told you yeah that goal yeah obviously gary winning the world cup at home listen to me i passed that stadium so many times and i was like it would be great if i get some tickets to watch to watch the the final let alone like being in so obviously and the above beating writes his record and and and but i go back to the thing this is why i always said to to people my my favorite goal favorite goal is the leads goal and people will say what first round of the cup leads are in the championship what i mean but it's the first time i scored a goal for my my my club as a fan and i never experienced what alan went through in ever you did it so many times in a career, we all know that.

1:18:54But it's the first time also I let myself go on the goal. I mean, you see there, I was virtually on the verge of crying when I arrived. Just for those listeners that are perhaps not aware, this would be when you returned to Arsenal and scored the goal. Yes, yes, yes, when I returned to Arsenal. And that has nothing to do with anything. Look, I was coming back from my holidays, but there was a level of expectation of they wanted to see me again. I wanted to see them again. And everybody went to the stadium for that. I'm not trying to be bigoted, but everybody went to the stadium for that people even watch the game for that and for the first time i felt like i was i i was with the fans like you know sometimes i was they were celebrating i'm celebrating but i was thinking about like for the first time in my life i let myself go and i know you will say only that moment but i really really went through me like like a fan you ran to wenger didn't you i remember Yeah, I went to Wenger.

1:19:50I was, at that moment, I'll be honest, like if I could stop, I would have cried there. Like I couldn't. And then after obviously me bullshitting, I went, oh, yeah. But in that run, I was like, oh. You can see I run and then I looked in the air and I'm like, what the fuck is this? Is that what it feels when you score for your club? I did it for the national team, don't get me wrong. Don't get me wrong. You know, like I said to you, like if I go now, if you ask me that question, I go to the competitor, winning the World Cup, you know, beating righty. But I understood emotion late. I understood that part of the game, of my game late.

1:20:27Late because of the reason that I mentioned before. Because for me, it was like, Terry, they want you to perform on Tuesday. Terry, they want you to perform on Wednesday. I couldn't, I was like, okay, we finish a game against, I don't know, Blackburn at home. I'm like, okay, I need to be ready for Villarreal in the Champions League. I wasn't enjoying anything. You know, I was happy. I was never satisfied. I was never enjoying my thing. I was like, oh, you scored. I said, yeah, yeah, yeah, I scored, yeah. But I need to, I was never, I was always on to the next one, on to the next one. And the first time I was enjoying every moment when I came back to Arsenal because I came back as a fan, you know, even wearing the track suit.

1:21:09That night I left the stadium. It was like 2 a.m. I stayed in a dressing room with my socks. my boots, my shin pads, the shirt and my short. And I sat there. My brother came down from the box. And at one point, Kostas, the guy that was just a cherry who would like to go home. I sat there, Alan thought, I don't know what time was the game. Maybe it was like 7.45 or something like that. It was 1.45. I was still in a dressing room. I didn't want to move. for one day I lived the dream of a fan scoring for his club. I never took the opportunity to do that before, like to really embrace it. And I know you would have said to me, Terry, is that your thing really?

1:22:00Yeah, because I became an Arsenal fan and it was the only time I actually felt it, felt me scoring as a fan. It was weird, but I was in a different mindset also. You know, I didn't come back as a killer or whatever. So my guards were down, emotion flowing, showing.

1:22:21Gary Lineker:See, boys, I told you it's not all about winning trophies, didn't I? I agree. No, I'll be honest with you. There's something that, and I'm honest enough, Alan, to tell you the truth. Like, I wondered for a very long time to like, what the fuck, Alan? No, no, no. Hey, I'm not, Mike, look, I can say something. If you're not there, I'll say it also if you're there. I was like, but why didn't he go? Like, in my mind, I don't want to make a story. I was like, could I have gone to Man United? And I know you would never have gone, we know. But in my mind, because I don't know you, I'm like, why? Could I have won?

1:22:58Maybe or maybe not. The trouble, maybe, maybe, maybe, maybe not. I didn't value that. I didn't value transcending people and transmitting. I value it playing football and, you know, but I didn't value what you did represent for certain people. I didn't value it. I'll be honest. I won't lie. I was like, who cares? No, it's important. It's important. And I think for me, one of the biggest thing is that is what you transmit and how you transcend people. It's important. What do you make of the current Arsenal side before we wrap this up? Be nice to see your thoughts on the game as it is now and particularly your club.

1:23:36Okay, so it's a lot. I think we are in a way better place than we were before. I actually see myself in the team now as a fan. I'm not talking as a player. I can accept defeat now. Understand what I'm saying? I can accept a result. It's difficult to top this stuff. You can accept a result. You can't accept defeat. Let me rephrase that. You can accept the result. Don't accept the defeat. So the loss against Lawrence, it can happen. But I see a team fighting, making mistakes. it can happen like five years ago i couldn't relate to the team i just couldn't like i was going to the game because i had to not because i wanted to just because i was an arsenal fan i was going to the game not because you know i wanted to see them play but i will always go to the game because that's how it is if i'm in london i go to the game because i'm an arsenal fan that's how i was going to be but now i can see what they're about i can see the peace that are missing you You know, we had that discussion on the show with Micah where Jamie and Peter argued about Raya and Ramsdale.

1:24:43And I go back to the point, and you guys got it already because I mentioned it so many times. You are the big club, man. Competition will happen. Like, I'm not the coach of Arsenal. You guys are not the coach of Arsenal. Mikel Arteta went to get a guy that he thinks that can make him win the title. like Ramsdale was seen as the guy that can make us go into the top four again and Berth Leenau had to go to Fulham that's the story of football that's the story of everybody so you know I can understand now new generation but there was something that will never change at a big club you gotta compete if you don't compete then someone's gonna come and even sometimes when you compete someone is coming like if you take Phil Foden Phil Foden is a good player but Man City keeps on buying players.

1:25:32Like feel for them or not. You are the big club. That's how it is. And if you're not happy to be at the big club, then you got to go. So come on, Thierry. Tell me, you're a coach now. I know we want to wrap up on Arsenal. We want to let you go soon. But can you see yourself being the Arsenal coach in the future? Is that something that you... And this is not me looking for a headline. You know that. I would never do that to you. No, but it will make headlines. And it's... No, it will make headlines. You know, one time I was stupid enough to say, it's the dream of any fan. Okay, and they clipped it up.

1:26:06And then they said, Terry Henry wants to be the coach of Arsenal. Like, Yeah, but company, company, before he was like, when he was coaching, he said he wants to go back there one day. You've been there as a player. You would most love to go back there as a manager. That's all I'm saying. It's very difficult for me to say that because when I say something about, about Arsenal, he goes places and I don't like to talk about people that are in position, whether it's good or bad. I know how hard it is to be on the bench. You know, I have mad respect for what Mikel did and to go back to your point, Gary, and where he put the team back.

1:26:40You know, you like him or you don't. Like I said to you so many times, players or whatever, we're not here to judge if you like the guy or not like the guy. We're trying to see what he's doing and what he's doing in the last two years is doing extremely well. extremely well. So it's unfair at times. And I've realized that when it comes to that, talking about coaching, talking about this, talking about Arsenal, I can talk about something that happened. Like the other day I talked about Saliba. I think he didn't defend the cross well on why. You can't just run to a spot and not look at where your striker is.

1:27:17Because if not, it's too easy for him. That can happen. But after I have too much respect on the overall situation, to now Michael is going to go, Thierry Henry said that, you know, you don't need to have this type of question in a press conference when you're about to play a game against Man City because that's what is going to happen tomorrow. I heard Thierry, that's it. No, we don't need to do that. Look, are we all dreaming? Like, would you like to win? Perhaps a slightly fairer way of doing it. What ambitions do you have in the world of coaching? Obviously, you've got the French under-21s.

1:27:54Didier Deschamps, for example, has been in charge of France for a long time. At some stage, you'll step aside. There might be a spot there. Or would you like to get back into club football? What do you think about what you want your future to be? Whatever level it is, Gary, I'll be honest with you, and Micah will tell you. Well, if I live now or not, I always say for me, improving players. That's what I love the most. Satisfying. And I know people say, oh, yeah, great. Amazing. final thoughts I swear I always say I value I will always remember I remember more the coaches that made me smarter than the one that made me win like you ask me about trophies but when I talk about Pep I never talk to you about you know I talk about what he gave me on the field or I'll send there I don't often say we want that with him or we want this with him I will talk about what he gave me like Joaquin Francisco Filho is a Brazilian coach that when I was young, I'm in the training session.

1:28:59You know, I'm 13. He said, Terry, today you're not allowed to use your speed. I'm like, what? What? He said, no, you're always going to have speed. I need you to work on your movement. Today, if you pass your strikers, or your defenders, sorry, it will be about your movement. I don't want you to use your speed. Another game. One time he gave me a game. He gave me a theme. You can't pass the ball back. I don't care what you want. Suddenly, you don't pass the ball back. you start to stand three quarters or you make running behinds you find a way to not pass the ball back you're a striker you're back to the game so I will always remember that guy and I speak to him until now and I value that I value guys calling me that I had even for a short time and tell me Terry can I speak to you about my game tomorrow that is so like you know you're like okay yeah I had an impact on him maybe we didn't win a trophy together yeah obviously that's an early one for me but I'm saying I value that too Like I said to Alan before, I didn't value transcending and transmitting to people.

1:29:57You know, it's not only that football. Like some people, Gary made you better, Alan made you better, Micah made you better. Nobody knows their names. And sometimes they should maybe be known more because it was way more difficult to teach you that at that moment and keep you going. But nobody knows their name. But everyone knows Pep, everyone knows Alcane, everyone knows Mourinho, and rightly so, by the way, because the hardest one is to be there at the big club and win it. But is that also, can you not also talk about like Graham Potter? Graham Potter, for me, what now the coach of Brighton is doing is because Brighton were already a team that went from no pass from the back, at the back, to dunk passing the ball 300 times now.

1:30:46So when you arrive, you don't have to teach him that. Now you have to teach him how you can bring the ball out in the six-yard box, how he likes to do it, like three players in the six-yard box, and they pass it. But he didn't have to do the first bit, no? So are we going to say that Graham Porter is not a good coach? Do you understand what I mean? That doesn't mean that because he didn't win at Chelsea, that he's not a good coach. That's valuable for me. It changed. It changed. Sorry. Dunk. Yeah. However you want to look at it. you understand I mean that's for me valuable so I would love also to be maybe a guy like I'm not saying you know but I value that a lot so if title comes I don't even know look it's only two games that I would do under 21 if if next week we lose twice they're gonna say oh my god it's the wrong appointment a week ago is the right one well if it's if it's player improvement that is is absolutely your motivation, then what better role is than working with young footballers?

1:31:47Because that's when they're most capable of learning, isn't it? They're like a sponge at that age. Yes, and that's why I value, yes, I go back and yes to my point, but to the Pep point. Pep manages to change players when their brain is already closed. That is tough. That's special. that is tough for you to make a guy that's already set in the way of playing changing hey all the best sorry could I ask you one more question you brought in Gail Clichy as your assistant as well someone I played with at Man City why did you choose Gail? it is pretty simple also that's very important for me Gary give opportunities to others you know it's also important like I had the opportunity to work with Roberto Martinez when nobody wanted to give me a hand and he gave me a hand he gave me an opportunity to start that was at Belgium right?

1:32:46yes yes and that's very important Gary because you can have the career that you had it doesn't really matter and Alan will tell you that and you also will know that sometimes your career and who you are and what you represent can scare people because they don't want you to be around let's all be honest and I'm sure I'm sure you experience they don't want you because they see they see you as a threat and you're not there you can hear I'm talking I'm a nobody as a coach why would I be a threat like I cannot undo what I've done as a player people will talk about me I cannot control that but so Roberto wasn't scared gave me a hand I'm not scared he could have been Gale or whatever but if you're competent he's competent he's starting his role and I was like okay I'm going to give you a chance I don't have a problem who it is but also I value that, don't get me wrong Gary I'm not here to say like oh I'm here to give people a chance no, this is me answering to what you said Micah I saw it as an opportunity for him to start and to give him a chance because when you stopped your career not a lot of people give you a hand in the game, I'm not talking about at a pundit or I'm talking about whatever you want to do on your thing as a podcast or you go on the radio in a club or in a federation.

1:34:15You got to know, Micah, that you're at times more a problem than a solution and you're not even in. Jerry, I have to say it's been an absolute delight talking to you, listening to you. Amazing. And we really do appreciate the amount of time that you've given us. Anytime, like I said to you, Gary, I have mad respect for you. Gary Allen the same

1:34:36Gary Lineker:thank you very much man you've been amazing Micah you already know I said to Micah for me it's a no-brainer I always going to be a no-brainer I respect my seniors Micah you're younger than me so I won't say that but no seriously I respect game recognize is game at the end of the day it doesn't matter thank you for your time man we really appreciate it thank you I appreciate it man thank you anytime well that is it from the Orestes football for this week a very special episode with the great Thierry Henry who we absolutely love to listen to. It was great. Goodbye from me. Goodbye from me. Goodbye from me.

1:35:11Gary Lineker:Cheers.