652. London’s Golden Age: The Ghosts of Culloden (Part 3)

22:30Dominic Sandbrook:out on the east coast of Scotland you've got nothing between you and the kind of Siberian winds can be very cold and you're a long way from anywhere yeah i think for johnson though it's not

22:39Tom Holland:just that you know there are the ruins of you know bare ruined choirs and all of that the the marks of scottish reformation it's also that it does seem to be very depopulated yeah it's clearly not as flourishing as it once was and this will become one of the great themes of his book on the highlands this sense that there are parts of scotland the lowlands that are absolutely booming but there are other parts and particularly the more northerly reaches that are clearly not and the whole trip Johnson is brooding on this and actually he has a lot of time to think because the journey is quite a long one and going from St Andrews up towards Aberdeen you know the coaches kind of bumping around on the roads and Johnson who isn't usually a man to complain but he is I think slightly feeling his age and there's one particularly long and dreary stretch of road in the approaches to Aberdeen he goes so far as to worry about how on earth he is going to cope riding a horse and he tells Boswell if we must ride much we shall not go and there's an end on and I have to say that there's an end on is is one of my favorite phrases from Johnson um but the next day he's cheered up and Boswell joshes him about the fact that he'd been you know worrying about horses and kind of always lapsing into self-pity says why sir you was beginning to despond yesterday you're a delicate

23:59Dominic Sandbrook:at londoner you're a macaroni you can't ride oh that's great banter so johnson would absolutely despite he would i mean that would force him to ride yes he's not gonna he's not gonna take being called a macaroni no because macaronis are people who dress in exaggerated italian fashions with enormous wigs that's not johnson's vibe at all and johnson is very indignant about it sir i shall ride better than you i was only afraid i should not find a horse able to carry me which has to be said it is a reasonable worry because he is as we say enormous by this point yeah so that evening

24:32Tom Holland:they arrive in aberdeen they get to the inn the inn is full boswell mentions his family name and immediately a room is found for them so that's a measure of the reputation if not of boswell himself of his father lord affleck and the next day in aberdeen johnson gets lionized again um and the city elders are so excited to have him in their presence that they actually vote in the freedom of the city so johnson is now in a much better mood and what is more they are now starting to approach the sublime kind of landscape that he's been hoping for because to quote boswell he always said that he was not come to scotland to see fine places of which there were enough in england

25:12Dominic Sandbrook:but wild objects mountains waterfalls peculiar manners so again there's that sense of romanticism isn't there the love of the kind of savage and the wildness and all of that kind of thing you know casting off the um the veneer of the city and getting into nature yeah and johnson is often

25:30Tom Holland:thought as a kind of you know classical figure you know his latin and his love of london and all of that but um he has come to scotland to see wilderness and so wilderness he is going to see and there's a taster for boswell of how potentially alarming this enthusiasm for wild scenery might be because they visit the Bullers of Buchan, which is a wild coastal walk that goes around very boiling waters known locally as the Pot. And Boswell, actually, I mean, he's terrified to see the hugely corpulent Johnson kind of striding along this rocky ledge with grim rocks and boiling waters below him. It was rather alarming to see Mr.

26:11Johnson poking his way. And I guess Boswell is thinking, well, how's it going to play if, you know, the greatest man of British letters plunges to his death? That's not going to be a good look at all. Anyway, Johnson survives it and gets in the coach and he's very happy.

26:26Tom Holland:But Boswell, I think, reflecting on the possibility of Johnson falling to his death, he suddenly become prey to gloomy fancies. And the landscape and the literary associations around Inverness kind of play on his fears. So by the afternoon of the 26th of August, they're driving across the heath where Macbeth was supposed to have met the three witches at the start of Shakespeare's play. Boswell finds himself shivering in terror. And he's working himself up into an absolute state. And then as they're rattling along across this heath, they see the rotting body of a highwayman in a gibbet. The highwayman has been there for two months.

27:09Tom Holland:Yeah. And Boswell, he describes it as that strange curiosity, which I always have about anything dismal, climbs out of the coach and inspects it. And it has to be said that Boswell has quite a thing about hangings. It isn't, I think, because he's a sadist or anything like this. I think it's actually the opposite. I think it's because he is oppressed by mortality and kind of dares himself to stare it in the face. he would go and talk to people who were about to be hanged and then watch them be hanged and then inspect their bodies afterwards um and it's kind of staring the inevitability of death in the face i think and so his response to this often i mean here it gets even weirder yes is that he would go out and and have sex with a prostitute i think to feel alive and obviously the very deep waters

27:55Dominic Sandbrook:there but also boswell does that i mean his response to anything i mean his response to the death of his mum was to go to a brothel no i mean i know i mean but this i think is what makes him such a fascinating man is that he has all that you know these kind of these strange takes on life these strange approaches these strange emotions but he just writes them up strange approaches that always somehow come back to the same destination well well i mean that is one that is one destination but another destination as we

28:25Tom Holland:say is this kind of yeah this this this kind of enthusiasm almost for working himself up into a state of terror and dread of death. And that evening he is completely morbid and Johnson either doesn't recognise it or wants to tweak Boswell's tale. So Boswell writes that Mr Johnson did not know of basically the fact that I was in a massive funk. Or he told me afterwards he would not have talked as he did for he diverted himself with trying to frighten me as if the witches would come and dance at the foot of my bed. so you can imagine you know johnson basically telling boswell lots of ghost stories yeah

29:06Dominic Sandbrook:boswell kind of gibbering in his bed so if you're into ghosts and death two very exciting places to come so on the road to inverness two more big sites to look at one of them is macbeth's castle so the castle of caudor and the other is the battlefield of culloden which we've already heard about so let's start with macbeth's castle so they do visit macbeth's castle its own I mean how does that work in those days somebody must live there or is it ruined

29:33Tom Holland:it's ruined but there's a local minister who entertains them and they go and inspect the castle and Boswell is delighted by it not by the castle itself so much as the spectacle of Mr Samuel Johnson in this remote place with all its literary associations and in fact he wrote a letter to David Garrick, the great actor, that very evening. Indeed, as I have always been accustomed to view him, Dr. Johnson, as a permanent London object, it would not be much more wonderful to me to see St. Paul's Church moving along where we now are. And I think you have this sense throughout the trip that Boswell is almost like a kind of documentary director.

30:16He's removed someone from his comfortable surroundings and placed him um in a locale where yeah kinds of adventures might ensue and he's always kind of framing johnson in his mind i have a friend called

30:29Dominic Sandbrook:uh called rory who once took um dennis rodman to north korea oh my god and he stayed there didn't he yeah they hung around it was a promotional thing for paddy power i think so improbable so yeah but no more improbable than um yeah samuel johnson going to scotland absolutely and so this is a crucial part of of boswell's delight in the whole trip so they get to see the castle at

30:53Tom Holland:cordor they do not go to inspect the battlefield of culloden and i think there are various reasons for this firstly it's off the road um and johnson isn't a man for taking i think a hike across scottish ever okay they don't have horses that they could ride um and it's a very very sensitive location i mean you know it's a little bit like i don't know poking around a nuclear facility in iran it's probably not the most sensible thing to do if you're a tourist but it's clear that the history of bonnie prince charlie is very much on their minds now because they arrive in inverness and then the next day they make a point of visiting this fort george which is this fortress that had been built in the wake of Culloden to kind of pacify the highlands.

31:38Tom Holland:So it's at one end of Loch Ness and Fort Augustus is at the other end of Loch Ness. They're very excited by now because they know that they are going to be following the line of Loch Ness and they're going to be heading out into a country upon which, as Johnson puts it, perhaps no wheel has ever rolled. And so they buy four horses, one for Johnson, one for Boswell, one for Ritter, their giant bohemian manservant. oh yeah i forgot he was there and a fourth to carry their baggage and that evening they're last for a while in civilized company they're in an inn in in vaness all kinds of you know as as usually happens luminaries have have turned up to have a gawp at dr johnson and listen to his conversations and johnson is in excellent form and they're discussing the state of the world and the name of Joseph Banks comes up.

32:28Tom Holland:Because the backdrop to this is that Captain Cook has just returned from his trip around the world, their trip to Australia with the goat. Johnson had actually written the poem in Latin, saluting the goat. And he's friends with Banks. And he reveals that Banks in Australia had seen a really remarkable animal, which Banks terms a kangaroo. and people say well what does this kangaroo look like and johnson this incredibly eminent this incredibly distinguished this incredibly heavy man rises to his feet he stood erect put out his hands like feelers and gathering up the tails of his huge brown coat so as to resemble the pouch of the animal made two or three vigorous bounds across the room so the first kangaroo impersonation

33:26Dominic Sandbrook:we've had on the rest is history very exciting but ahead as even greater excitement because we talked about one exotic and improbable creature in a kangaroo and we might just be about to meet another because after the break johnson and boswell will be going to loch ness this episode

33:47James Boswell:is brought to you by Nordstrom. Spring calls for a wardrobe refresh and Nordstrom has the best styles of the season. From dresses and denim to standout tops and accessories, find the trends and essentials that feel right for you. Discover new arrivals from brands you love like WAIF, Princess Polly, Mango, Adidas, and Free People. Plus, free shipping and returns and free styling appointments make everything so easy. Shop in stores at nordstrom.com or download the Nordstrom app. We all have that dream trip we've been wishing we could go on. But too often, life, or usually price, gets in the way.

34:24James Boswell:That's why Priceline is here to help you turn your dream trip into reality. With up to 60 % off hotels and up to 50 % off flights, you can book everything you need for your next adventure. Don't just dream about that next trip. Book it with Priceline. Download the Priceline app or visit Priceline.com and book your next trip today. Go to your happy price, price line. It's crunch time at work and you need to bring wings to your workday. Visit redbull.com slash getting it done and answer a couple questions about your work style to get a Spotify customized playlist tuned to your productivity. Plus, score a can of Red Bull on us while you go from to do to done.

35:04James Boswell:And remember, Red Bull gives you wings. Supplies are limited. Terms apply. Visit the website for more information.

35:16Dominic Sandbrook:welcome back to the rest is history it is the 30th of august 1773 samuel johnson and james boswell have left inverness they have left the world of stage coaches and comfortable inns and civilized company and they are riding west into the highlands and their destination tom loch ness so

35:37Tom Holland:boswell writes about it a loch ness and the road upon the side of it between birch trees with the hills above pleased us much the scene was as remote and agreeably wild as could be desired exciting so they don't spot the monster what oh disappointing nobody knows the monster exists

35:55Dominic Sandbrook:that's so disappointing that's i guess that's because the monster was invented in 1930s by the daily mail no yes and you can hear our episode about that but even though they don't spot the

36:04Tom Holland:monster boswell does notice a very old woman standing outside a wretched little hovel as as Boswell puts it, made of earth. And it has a window. And the way the window is stopped is with a kind of a circle of turf. This for Boswell is amazing. And his kind of documentary maker instincts kick in. And he is filled with a desire to see Johnson step inside this hovel. And so they all pile in. And inside it, they find a pot filled with goat meat bubbling over a peat fire and Johnson like Louis Theroux or someone he's kind of interviewing this woman even though she doesn't speak English she only speaks Gaelic or Urse as Johnson calls it so to quote Boswell Mr Johnson asked her where she slept I asked one of the guides who asked her in earth i.e.

37:00Gaelic she spoke with a kind of high tone he told us she was afraid we wanted to go to bed to her this coquetry or whatever it may be called of so wretched a like being was truly

37:12Dominic Sandbrook:ludicrous that's very ungallant by Boswell he's being very mean about this woman just because she's old and and maybe not as prepossessing as the people with him he consorts on Westminster Bridge but maybe his reputation had gone before him yeah she thinks Jesus Boswell's turned up I can see he's clutching a pint of wine. I'm in for it now. So there is a lot of banter along this theme. Johnson makes exactly this point. I think he's amused, but he's also embarrassed. And he definitely doesn't want to hurt her delicacy. And so he refuses to go into the bedchamber. Boswell inevitably does. And he lights a piece of paper, goes in and inspects it.

37:50Tom Holland:And he finds that it's all thrillingly basic. It's everything that he'd been hoping for. They then sit down with the old woman. and the old woman is incredibly hospitable. She gives them both a dram and then she asks in return, do you have some snuff? And they don't have any snuff, but they reach into their pockets and they both give her a sixpence. And they're chatting away through the interpreter and she tells Johnson and Boswell that she is as happy as any woman in Scotland. And then when they go on their way, she sends them with prayers, which she offers up in Gaelic. And Boswell writes, Mr.

38:24Tom Holland:Johnson was pleased at seeing for the first time such a state of human life so oh that's nice this is what he's been looking for basically in the highlands so they continue on their way um following the line of loch ness um southwest um and by nightfall they have reached fort augustus which is at the opposite end from um from inverness where they stay as as guests of the governor and i have to say that when you read both Johnson and Boswell's account, particularly of this stretch along Loch Ness, there's quite a kind of Great Plains in the 1870s vibe, you know, remote landscapes, forts, the sense of, you know, slight nervousness looking over your shoulder and everything.

39:11Dominic Sandbrook:Reminds me of the stuff we did on stage about Scottish visitors going to the New World, going to the United States in the sort of middle of the 19th century with dogs called Peevish. yes get eaten by native americans exactly anyway um so they go up into the mountains don't they the next day yeah and um johnson uh is really struck by the wildness it's exactly what he expected everything basically is ticking it's ticking all his boxes right it's exactly as he yeah as he hoped and dreamed it would be and it's about this point that he starts thinking this

39:43Tom Holland:would make a great book he does and he's still pondering this um this notion that he'd first had in St Andrews, which is the contrast between all the industry and the bustle of the lowlands and the emptiness of northern Scotland. That evening, they've been travelling over wild, thinly inhabited upland regions. They climb down and they arrive in Glen Morriston, which is a glen where Bonnie Prince Charlie had taken refuge in a cave. They look around them and they find that the Glen is almost empty. It's kind of deserted of habitation. There is one place where they can stay. And their landlord confirms to them, yes, that 70 men had gone out of the Glen to America.

40:28Tom Holland:And Johnson is really struck by this. And he's thinking, you know, there is the sense here of some profound historic change. And what is going on? What explains it? So he's kind of sitting there thinking it. Meanwhile, Boswell's emotions are a kind of typically Boswellian mix of kind of fastidious distaste for this awful place they're staying in. Boswell calls it a stye. But it's intermingled with a sense of romantic pride at how magnificent the scenery is and how splendid all the customs are. So the fastidious distaste first. They're shown into their room. I mean, it's awful. It's obviously heaving with bedbugs.

41:07Tom Holland:Johnson doesn't care. Johnson just kind of throws himself down and immediately falls asleep. Boswell lies on his kind of horrible mattress, stressing out about bedbugs, and he has this weird fancy that a spider was travelling from the Winscott towards my mouth. He finally falls asleep, wakes up early, he's still very stressed, and he began to imagine that the landlord, being about to emigrate himself, might murder us to get our money. johnson completely unperturbed he's lying there with a coloured handkerchief tied around his head and boswell actually has to kind of prod him to get him up they then go and have breakfast and at breakfast boswell's mood is immediately transformed by meeting a veteran of bonnie prince charlie's army a highlander who had signed up with the prince when he'd first landed gone down with him deep into England, come back to Culloden and escaped from Culloden.

42:03Tom Holland:And so he relates this whole story. And Boswell, as he listens to it, repeatedly finds himself in tears and goes off on a kind of massive Scottish patriotism jag. So he writes, the very Highland names or the sound of a bagpipe will stir my blood and fill me with a mixture of melancholy and respect for courage and pity for an unfortunate and superstitious regard for antiquity, an inclination for war without thought, and in short, with a crowd of sensations.

42:39Dominic Sandbrook:Oh, that's nice. I mean, a crowd of sensations could be Boswell's motto. That's basically what he's all about.

42:45Tom Holland:So he's in a very romantic mood. And a couple of days later, so by now it's the 2nd of September, they've reached the coast and they've boarded a boat and they're being rowed across to Skye and as they're being rowed they pass the very point where bonnie prince charlie had first landed on scottish soil and boswell sits there and previously he said that his blood was stirred now his mind is stirred but basically he's very very stirred by all of this but but yeah he's had

43:19Dominic Sandbrook:a massive row with johnson what's going on he has he had a huge i mean they've been getting on so

43:23Tom Holland:well but um the day before they they um they get taken in the boat to sky um they've had a massive bust up so they've been coming down a mountain johnson is on this pony and he's so heavy that the poor pony stumbles so the guide reaches for the bridling he tries to calm down both johnson and the pony the pony is nervous johnson is kind of irate that the pony has collapsed under him and Johnson is kind of rumbling away and as he's doing this the guide is trying to distract Johnson and cheer him up and he says see such pretty goats then he whistles and he makes them jump and Boswell thinks this is hilarious a common ignorant horse hire imagining that he could divert as one does a child Mr Samuel Johnson and he can't stop laughing and Johnson has a massive

44:16Dominic Sandbrook:massive strop about it yeah because johnson's dignity has been completely undermined by this right he can't ride the pony the pony's collapsing they're going down the hill the bloke is treating him like he's a child and yeah so i was laughing at him it's too much for johnson it's absolutely

44:30Tom Holland:too much for johnson and one of the themes of this whole trip which boswell you know he'd known this but it's repeatedly something that he's stumbling up against is that johnson cannot bear to be made to look ridiculous and if he does he almost always loses his temper and so he loses his temper now and boswell after this kind of bust up he rides ahead to kind of try and scope out their onward travel arrangements and johnson takes this again as a personal insult he sees it as boswell thinks that he can't cope with with riding as fast as he can and when boswell comes back he says do you know i should have sooner thought of doing as you have done as picking a pocket and it's only the following morning that they make up and again there's this brilliant phrase let's think no

45:09Dominic Sandbrook:moront oh i'm glad they made up anyway they do make up so they've got what they've got to look forward to they haven't met any clan chiefs yet no that's what they really want yes so there's a clan chief coming and this is uh the chief of clan mcdonald of sleet so sir alexander mcdonald

45:25Tom Holland:so tell me about him yeah so he's married to elizabeth boswell who's a distant cousin of boswell's so boswell knows sir alexander mcdonald and had actually met with him in london and there Sir Alexander had issued a formal invitation because Boswell had said, oh, we're coming to the Hebrides. So they're very excited about this because obviously they want to meet a real Hebridean clan chief. And they're approaching the southern tip of Skye and they're looking out and they see that Sir Alexander has come down to the sea's edge to welcome them. And what's even better, he is in full Tartan. And this is massively exciting because Tartan is actually, strictly speaking illegal in the wake of culloden it had been prescribed for everyone except for highlanders serving with the british army right and so the fact that sir alexander mcdonald has turned up in the traditional highland dress this portends tremendous tremendous entertainment what's even better is that lady mcdonald who's very beautiful she is standing at the top of the bank and she is making to quote boswell a kind of jumping for joy so everything seems set for a taste of traditional hebridean hospitality except that this is not what they get oh no so alexander turns out to be an absolutely terrible host he's kind of mean he's really boring and he's boorish and there are no clansmen there are no claymores um kind of no outlander vibes in any way the dinner is a shocker it's kind of undercooked it's boring um so alexander hasn't brought his chef with him to the island the punch there's almost no alcohol in the punch at all oh that's the lowest thing that's poor and lady mcdonald whom boswell remembered as being absolutely enchanting yeah it seems i mean johnson johnson says she seems cut out of a cabbage this woman would sink a 90 gun ship she is so dull and heavy oh jesus that's even more disappointing than the punch god this is ticking none of my boxes so that's very dispiriting and boswell is mortified kind of on his own behalf but also on behalf of scotland this is exactly he doesn't want johnson

47:45Dominic Sandbrook:seeing it's not what he wants at all sir alexander mcdonald has let scotland down so he has a blazing row with sir alexander get a better wife for god's sake boswell wants to leave that night

47:54Tom Holland:johnson says no we can't that would be rude so they stay there for four days they head off um to go and stay with these other people who've invited them and from there they're going to make a crossing to the nearby island of rasi um and they kind of arrive they're ready to get in the boat but then the kind of massive storm blows up and they can't make the crossing so this is very disappointing as well and johnson sensing that boswell is bored starts to entertain him with an impersonation of lady mcdonald leaning forward with a hand on each cheek and her mouth open and boswell unlike lord affleck his father is a big fan of impersonations and he thinks that johnson has absolutely nailed this impersonation and he writes to see such a beauty represented by Mr Johnson was excessively high.

48:41But there are only so many impersonations of Lady MacDonald that can be done over the course of two days. And so by the time the storm finally subsides, they are so ready to cross to Rasse. But there are only so many times that Johnson can do an impersonation of Lady MacDonald. And so they're stuck there for two days. And Boswell is just, you know so depressed have all johnson's criticisms of scotland you know have they been

49:09Dominic Sandbrook:based in fact i mean is he right is scotland actually a terrible place so actually johnson's perspective is slightly different though isn't it because he's basically struck by how much has changed in scotland in recent years he's almost quite mournful and quite melancholy about it he says basically clearly there was some romantic you know um mist shrouded beautiful scotland but it has been destroyed or it's being lost and that's what really is on his mind.

49:34Tom Holland:Yeah so he writes in his book we came there too late to see what we expected a people of peculiar appearance and a system of antiquated life. So Boswell is blaming Sir Alexander for their poor reception and I think that's reasonable enough but I think Johnson is seeing it in a slightly deeper kind of profounder historical context. And I think he feels essentially that they've come there too late and that recent history, its effects have been remorseless. There hasn't really been any resisting it because Scotland has joined with England in the union and as a result has become richer. It's joined this enormous single market.

50:15Tom Holland:It's become more prosperous. it's become a commercial nation a polite and commercial nation but only in the lowlands and johnson feels that the wealthier the lowlands have grown the less prepared the elites of edinburgh and glasgow have been to put up with the autonomy of the clans and the law had begun to disarm the clans yeah so johnson writes the chief has lost his formidable retinue and the highlander walks his heath unarmed and defenseless with the peaceable submission of a french peasant or English cottager and this is something obviously that has struck Johnson only on their tour because remember he had brought his pistols with him but now he finds there aren't any pistols there aren't any claymores you know that the Highlanders have have no weapons whatsoever and this is partly because Scottish laws have disarmed them but it's also British state repression following the Battle of Culloden when you know the Hanoverian regime had received this terrible shock and it's in the wake of that that the tartan had been banned and carrying weapons and all kinds of things and johnson writes their pride had been crushed by the heavy hand of a vindictive conqueror and that chiefs had degenerated from patriarchal rulers to rapacious landlords and that many of the chiefs rather than stay in their their ancestral strongholds surrounded by their clansmen that most of them have migrated southwards to the lowlands to glasgow to edinburgh some of them have even gone to london and it doesn't surprise johnson at all to learn that sir alexander mcdonald had been educated at eton so yeah they're losing their scottishness yeah i mean certainly they're losing their status as a you know a hebridean um clan chief the clan chiefs are all going to eton and the clansmen rather than kind of choose to moldering Glens or on the Isles or whatever, are increasingly leaving for America, either to fight for the British army there or to set up as colonists.

52:15Tom Holland:And Johnson feels that it's not really the union that's brought this about, that it's not even Culloden that has doomed them, that it is actually just the kind of the inexorable way of things, that this is how a commercialising nation, a prospering nation, that there are

52:38Dominic Sandbrook:victims doesn't it um go back to your parallel that you made earlier on with the plains indians and visitors to the great plains that you could conceivably visit the great plains in the late 19th century and you take your pistols thinking there's part of you that thinks gosh are we going to be taken prisoner by the by the sioux or something and you get there and it's all gone and it's all changed and and it's partly repression and it's partly the process of you know capitalism and industrialization and urbanization and all those kinds of things and And this is a preview of that, no? Yeah.

53:07Tom Holland:And I think what Johnson says about the process of immiseration that are essentially destroying the traditions of the highlands could equally be applied to the Plains Indians. So he writes, misery is caused for the most part not by a heavy crush of disaster, but by the corrosion of less visible evils, which canker enjoyment and undermine security. The visit of an invader is necessarily rare, but domestic animosities allow no cessation. and so this is the judgment that he delivers in his book on the western islands you know and it's a kind of somber one it's profound one i mean i think it's that's true more generally i mean you could apply it perhaps to to life in western democracies at the moment if you wanted to yeah um and there are people in scotland when this book comes out who say well this is just because johnson hates scotland i don't think this is true i don't think actually i think johnson has a wonderful time in scotland um he's writing as a man who has an instinctive sympathy for the underdog but he is also writing as someone who in the course of his travels does actually see enough of the traditional highland ways to feel very very wistful for their decline and what he sees he enjoys so much that he from this point on will always refer to his travels in the Western Isles as the pleasantest part of my life.

54:28Tom Holland:Oh, that's nice. So Boswell actually needn't have worried. Johnson isn't having a bad time. He hadn't been put off by Sir Alexander MacDonald sticking his fork into a liver pudding while his guests were kept standing. He hasn't been put off by the storms. I mean, you know, it's Western Scotland. Johnson's expecting storms. And the two months in the Hebrides that follow this kind of slightly unfortunate introduction direction um to sky they are a triumph so racy when they finally reach it proves an absolute ball um there's everything that they'd been hoping for from um sir alexander mcdonald there's fiddling there's dancing um and even though johnson sits out the reels he's absolutely in his element and and boswell wrote in great relief mr johnson was in fine spirits he said this is truly the patriarchal life this is what we came to find oh they come back to sky and they travel to kingsborough and there they meet the ultimate in living jacobite history and this is flora mcdonald the woman who had saved bonnie prince charlie and she had escorted um the wanderer as boswell calls him um disguised as her irish maid betty burke and it has to be said that um according to flora mcdonald he didn't make a very convincing irish maid she'd brought him from the outer hebrides to sky um and from sky bonnie prince charlie had been taken onwards to the mainland again um and put on a ship and taken back to france um and again boswell the documentary director to see mr samuel johnson salute miss flora mcdonald was a wonderful romantic scene to me and what's even more romantic is that they stay in flora mcdonald's house and johnson sleeps in the very bed that bonnie prince charlie had slept in so if you're a bonnie prince charlie tourist i

56:21Dominic Sandbrook:mean you know this is yeah incredible i mean if you're an old tory like samuel johnson with jacobite sympathies this must be absolutely fantastic absolute heaven yeah yeah so he really

56:33Tom Holland:is having a brilliant time um and i think the final highlight for johnson is perhaps the most moving of all and this say they they go to mull and then they take a crossing a very short crossing to Iona, which is a holy island for the Scots. And indeed, I think for any British Christian, St. Columba, the Irish monk, had founded a monastery there back in 563, commemorated as the great cradle of Scottish Christianity. And Johnson feels an immense surge of emotion visiting it. and he wrote about it in very very famous line that man is little to be envied whose patriotism would not gain force upon the plane of marathon or whose piety would not grow warmer among the

57:24Dominic Sandbrook:ruins of Iona nice so for Boswell you describe him as a documentary maker I mean he's got all the shots he wanted he's got Johnson in Bonnie Prince Charlie's bed he's got Johnson looking you know melancholy and thoughtful and stirred with a religious feeling in the ruins of Iona I mean he's made a tremendous film yeah and so all their kind of you know memories of rows about ponies and so on have ended up pretty much forgotten and in fact there are only two episodes

57:52Tom Holland:during the whole tour around the Hebrides which it would subsequently cause Boswell pain to recall and the first of these had occurred on the 16th of september johnson had a a cold but was otherwise in fine form and he's you know talking away about a whole host of things and he suddenly it seems to boswell goes off on a mad one johnson says i have often thought that if i kept a seraglio so a harem the ladies should all wear linen gowns or cotton i mean stuffs made of vegetable substances and he's saying this because um they've been talking about um how linen is is kind of vastly preferable to anything with animal substances but it is a slightly unexpected left field sally and and the fact that he said i have often thought that if i kept a harem i mean yeah boswell finds this so unexpected that he bursts out laughing johnson doesn't like that johnson doesn't like this because he feels that he is now an object of ridicule And in the kind of the published version of his journals, Boswell says he was too proud to submit even for a moment to be the object of ridicule and instantly retaliated with keen, sarcastic wit and a variety of degrading images.

59:13And Boswell doesn't specify what these degrading images are in the book, but in his journal he had done. And essentially what Johnson had done was to say, oh, well, if I had a harem, you would be the eunuch. And there are some quite deep waters here, I feel. Because, of course, Boswell had wanted to keep a harem for himself. He talked about that with Rousseau. And the idea of being a eunuch to Johnson, I mean, it just seems so wrong.

59:40Dominic Sandbrook:It hits him on various levels because Boswell is so priapic that for him to be a eunuch, to be unmanned in this way, is an insult to his masculinity. But also, he kind of is Johnson's eunuch already. Well, he's the attendant, isn't he?

59:56Tom Holland:He's the subordinate figure.

59:57Dominic Sandbrook:Yes, he's Johnson's super fan.

1:00:00Tom Holland:Yeah. So I think there's a lot going on there. And so Boswell writes, I would gladly expunge from my mind every trace of this severe retort. And you can see why. It's clearly striking him on all kinds of levels. Then there is a second episode, which is very famous. And again, Boswell could not bring himself to relate it in full. And it takes place at the very end of their journey. They've come back from the Hebrides. They're heading down to Edinburgh. but before they reach Hedenborough they head southwards um to the one place in Scotland that Johnson had always said he'd wanted to see in which Boswell had always longed to show him and that of course is the ancestral seat of the Boswell's Affleck oh that's risky it is risky

1:00:43Dominic Sandbrook:because his father his father is that what is he he's a Whig he's a Presbyterian he's a Hanoverian he's got no sense of fun or humor I mean I can't see him getting on with Samuel Johnson

1:00:54Tom Holland:I mean, he has got a sense of humour, but it's very sharp and bitter and kind of piercing. It's not jolly. And Boswell knows this. And so he says, if Lord Affleck had not invited Johnson, I would not have taken him there because he'd be fearing the worst, worried about fireworks. But Lord Affleck had insisted. And so Boswell and Johnson had duly arrived at Affleck on the 2nd of November. And to begin with, everything goes well. both men behave themselves johnson has a lovely time being led up by boswell to inspect the ruins of the old castle on the you know on the gorge above the rivers and the days pass and things seem to be perfectly amiable between lord affleck and johnson but then on the 6th of november disaster so lord affleck has a collection of medals and he keeps them in the library in his great classical house that he's just had built and he pulls him out and he shows him to johnson when oliver cromwell's coin unfortunately introduced charles the first and toryism

1:02:05Dominic Sandbrook:it's like when we do a thing and we end up and with george hours yes the um publisher and historian couple loft and we accidentally praise oliver cromwell and he goes ballistic and starts shouting about charles the first this is this is what happens right this is the essence of toryism

1:02:21Tom Holland:the belief that charles the first should not have had his head chopped off yeah lord affleck is um is is is much more impressed by the execution and says that it reminds kings that they have vertebrae in their necks yeah and johnson just explodes and the row goes on and on and boswell he can't avoid mentioning it in his book because it's really quite famous the news of it leaks out but he refuses to go into details it would certainly be very unbecoming in me to exhibit my honoured father and my respected friend as intellectual gladiators for the entertainment of the public and you slightly feel reading that well i mean nothing has stopped you doing exactly that before i mean boswell only has to hear a conversation and he's transcribing it but not when they've gone head to head no that's the difference these two men who are so important in his life.

1:03:10Tom Holland:It kind of is his ultimate nightmare. But to reiterate, basically everything else that Johnson has said on this tour, Boswell has written down. They are there in his journals. They are ready to be used. Johnson has decided on the course of the tour that he's going to write a book. Boswell has already, even before going on the tour with Johnson, decided that his ultimate ambition is to write a biography of Johnson once Johnson is dead. And so this is one of the reasons why he has been kind of occasionally goading Johnson. He wants, you know, he wants kind of good copy. Throughout the tour, he's pressing Johnson to tell him details about his life.

1:03:50Tom Holland:And it's almost the case that Johnson is so busy writing up what Johnson says that he doesn't actually have much time to talk to Johnson. Johnson and Boswell have both returned from this trip with the kind of raw material for future books that both of them had wanted. And Boswell absolutely feels, I do now have the material for a kind of a biography of Johnson that will be unlike any biography that has ever been written. However, even as he is plotting this, he is aware that he has a rival. Someone who actually is more familiar and certainly more intimate with Johnson than Boswell has ever been.

1:04:35and this is a rival who isn't just a woman but more than that dominic a woman from wales

1:04:46Dominic Sandbrook:crikey well that is a bombshell very exciting um if you're a member of the rest is history club you can get that episode right now if you're not and you would like to join our own depopulated hebridean clan then please head to the rest is history.com so next time on the rest is history a sentence i thought i would never say we will be talking about a welsh woman goodbye bye-bye

1:05:20James Boswell:burnout paradise is hailed as the wildest night out in new york city by time out new york now off broadway at the astor place theater it's a live show you'll never forget as the people on stage make a desperate attempt to complete a series of escalating tasks, all while running on treadmills. And if they don't complete their to-do list in one hour's time, you can get your money back. Get tickets today at burnoutparadise.com.

1:05:50James Boswell:Thought Sweetgreen was just salads? Think again. There's a new way to do Sweetgreen. Wrapped and ready. These handheld wraps pack bold flavor and 40 plus grams of protein into something hearty, satisfying, and built for life on the go. From craveable sauces to satisfying textures, they're designed to keep you going without slowing you down. So put that fork down. Try the new wraps today in app or at order.sweetgreen.com. Available at participating locations only. Hablas Espanol.

1:06:22Dominic Sandbrook:Spreys to Deutsch.

1:06:22James Boswell:Condénosque. If you used Babbel, you would. Babbel's conversation-based techniques teaches you useful words and phrases to get you speaking quickly about the things you actually talk about in the real world. With lessons handcrafted by over 200 language experts and voiced by real native speakers, Babbel is like having a private tutor in your pocket. Start speaking with Babbel today. Get up to 55 % off your Babbel subscription right now at babbel.com slash Spotify, spelled B-A-B-B-E-L dot com slash Spotify. Rules and restrictions may apply.