In short
The episode compares two high-profile motherhood choices—Karoline Leavitt’s exit as Trump’s White House press secretary after having a second child, and AOC’s public egg-freezing—arguing they reflect a widening left-right culture divide over child care and pronatalism.
Key claims
Leavitt’s “child care” explanation may not fully match the timeline; she’s portrayed as a hardline Trump mouthpiece. AOC’s egg-freezing is framed as politically savvy because she emphasizes costs (no paid federal maternity/parental leave, failed “motherhood” proposals) rather than moralizing.
Notable examples
trad-wife backlash; polling that young liberal women are far more likely to be childless than young conservative women; UNH/AOC presidential speculation. The episode also covers Trump’s Air Force One “decoy plane” and catering-cart transfer amid an alleged missile threat, criticizing White House secrecy and “boy who cried wolf” emergency language.
Guests
none besides hosts (Katty Kay and Anthony Scaramucci).
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Chapters
Tap a time to open that second in VOThe Departure of Caroline Leavitt
0:54 to 1:39
Discussion on Caroline Leavitt's departure as press secretary and its implications.
“It can all start just as the first line of a speech, but it sets in motion things that can reach far beyond Washington and unfold for years to come.”
The Departure of Caroline Leavitt
1:50 to 6:15
Discussion on Caroline Leavitt's departure as press secretary and its implications.
“I totally buy that that is the reason she is doing it.”
AOC's Egg Freezing and Cultural Implications
6:17 to 10:21
Exploring AOC's decision to freeze her eggs amidst cultural expectations.
“There is also the chance, of course, that AOC might run for president in a couple of years' time.”
Political Landscape and Gender Roles
10:25 to 14:00
Analyzing the shifting political landscape regarding women and family life.
“And there was a culture clash back then, but it was not as combative as it is today.”
AOC's Video and Women's Health
14:00 to 15:00
Discussion on AOC's choice to publicize her egg freezing process and its implications.
“And I think she's AOC is on to something.”
Democratic Party's Cultural Focus
15:00 to 16:50
Analyzing what the Democratic Party needs to prioritize to resonate with voters.
“doing related to the culture in 2026 and in 2028.”
AOC's Economic Strategy
16:50 to 17:46
Exploring AOC's approach to framing issues around women's health as economic concerns.
“That is not a real policy for helping people have more kids, right?”
Trump on a Catering Cart
17:46 to 19:17
Story about President Trump being transported in a catering cart due to security threats.
“But by the way, okay, I'm surprised that the president and his team haven't jumped on that data, number one.”
The NATO Summit Incident
19:17 to 20:15
Background on the circumstances leading to Trump's unconventional transport method.
“We are coming on tour, hopefully to a city near you.”
Decoy Plane Controversy
20:15 to 22:05
Discussion on the implications of using a decoy plane during Trump's transport.
“But they did so almost James Bond style by shoving him into a catering cart.”
Show all 16 chapters
Press Relations and Transparency Issues
22:05 to 24:15
Examining the White House's relationship with the press and issues of transparency.
“And Scott Bessent, the Treasury Secretary, we don't know, according to reporting, whether he knew he was sitting on a decoy plane.”
The Credibility Crisis
24:15 to 28:00
Analyzing the credibility issues faced by the current administration in light of past actions.
“I want to go back in time for a second and get your reaction to this.”
The Corrosive Nature of Lies in Politics
28:00 to 31:00
Discussing the implications of Caroline Levitt's actions and the press's response to presidential lies.
“I think she was telling 43 lies a day, something ridiculous like that.”
Iranian Threats and U.S. Foreign Policy
31:00 to 33:13
Exploring the consequences of U.S. actions against Iranian leaders and their implications for national security.
“You know, I respect the press and, you know, I'm a big believer in freedom of speech, but I think they've got to get tougher with the president.”
Engaging with Trump's Rhetoric
33:13 to 34:39
Analyzing how the press can effectively challenge and respond to Trump's statements and lies.
“I applaud the press for getting the story out there.”
Engaging with Trump's Rhetoric
36:42 to 37:34
Analyzing how the press can effectively challenge and respond to Trump's statements and lies.
“Hey, guys, it's Anthony Scaramucci here and I've got some exciting news for you.”
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:01Katty Kay:Karoline Leavitt is out as White House press secretary after just 50.7 Scaramucci's. But did she really leave for child care reasons or is there more to this than meets the eye? Meanwhile, AOC has frozen her eggs. We'll be discussing what their very different choices reveal about the widening cultural divide over motherhood and child care on the left and right. And, Caddy, we're also going to talk about the special on Air Force One. The catering was orange chicken, Caddy. They were having orange chicken l 'aranche on the way back to the UK. And we're going to talk a little bit about the caper of Donald Trump in a catering truck.
0:45Katty Kay:But first, let's discuss AOC and Caroline Leavitt. What happened there? This episode is brought to you by eToro.
0:53Anthony Scaramucci:A tariff, a spending plan, a regulatory change. It can all start just as the first line of a speech, but it sets in motion things that can reach far beyond Washington and unfold for years to come.
1:06Katty Kay:That's right, Katty. Markets move on expectations, not just events. Investors are constantly weighing what a decision could mean for company sectors and the wider economy.
1:18Anthony Scaramucci:So eToro is an investing platform where you can access a wide range of markets and explore how political and economic developments could affect them.
1:27Katty Kay:You could also learn from the global community of investors and see how people around the world are interpreting the same news.
1:36Anthony Scaramucci:As with all investing, your capital is at risk. See etoro.com forward slash trip US for full terms.
1:49Anthony Scaramucci:so this is such an interesting story because caroline levitt the press secretary who as you say has lasted quite a bit longer than you lasted in the same job and i want to know in a second exactly what you made of that 28 years old she was the youngest press secretary at 27 has just had her second child and she is leaving the white house having just had baby number two to go back home and spend more time with her family. I totally buy that that is the reason she is doing it. It is impossible to do that kind of a job with very small children when you've just had a tiny baby as a mother, I reckon.
2:25Anthony Scaramucci:It's just like too difficult.
2:26Katty Kay:Okay, I don't want to sound as shallow as I actually am, but let me ask a shallow question here. You sure there wasn't a Blantourage fight in there and she got ousted? Are you positive?
2:39Anthony Scaramucci:No, I'm not positive. It's possible. You think she got ousted? That's what you're hearing?
2:43Katty Kay:No, I'm not. I'm not 100 percent sure, because it did not seem when she was being interviewed on Fox News upon her rearrival that she would be leaving so shortly. And if you're going to leave, you just had the baby. If you're going to leave the position, why wouldn't you say, hey, I'm having the baby. I'm leaving the position. I don't it to me. The facts don't completely jive. Look, I'm not Sherlock Holmes, but the facts do not completely jive with the story. Are you hearing anything different? I'll take it at face value. I'll take it at her word. But let me tell you something. She is such a liar, Katty Kay, that, you know, it's a hard one to believe for me in terms of her departure.
3:25Katty Kay:But go ahead.
3:25Anthony Scaramucci:Well, I mean, I guess Scott Jennings, who is kind of number one top tip to be her replacement conservative analyst, CNN analyst, may have said to Trump, look, she can't do it anymore. But I think actually she's been a really good press secretary for Donald Trump. As you say, she has been prepared to stay stuck from that podium that defends her boss time after time. I've always been incredibly impressed with the confidence and the pugnacity of that young woman when it comes to doing that job. If I was having a job like Donald Trump's, I would want Caroline Levitt to be my press secretary because she is never going to give an inch.
4:02Anthony Scaramucci:She rounds on the press. She accuses the press of gaslighting her. She gets very personal with them. She attacks them. Apparently, all of my friends in the press corps say that actually one on one, Caroline Levitt is a nice person and they get on with her well and she is helpful to them and she answers them respectfully. But get her out in front of that podium and she does exactly what Donald Trump wants her to do, which is be his mouthpiece and perform the way he wants her to perform. So it's possible that he decided to let her go and that maybe it is a little odd that she said. But, you know, when people have a second child and they're juggling a lot of things, she may have decided before she came back that she was not going to stay.
4:43Anthony Scaramucci:But she wanted to come back in order to show that she went back, that she didn't quit during maternity leave, which I think is a hard thing to do. And that she wanted to come back and say, at least I was there for a period of time before I ditched it.
4:57Katty Kay:I don't have additional reporting on this. I'm just asking the questions because it seemed like the sequence of events didn't make 100 percent sense to me. but you're explaining it a lot better than me. But what happened with AOC this week, same week, two different trajectories of careers?
5:12Anthony Scaramucci:Yeah, this was super interesting. So AOC did a video of herself injecting herself. And she said that this is the injections that she's taking because she wants to freeze her eggs. And this is something that a lot of American couples and women are dealing with. She is 36 years old, but she is not ready to have children yet. She wants to delay that process. And it has kind of, because these two things came about in the same week, the woman who was meant to be the kind of poster child for conservative women having it all with the support of a conservative family. Caroline Leavitt has often talked about her faith and her church community and how supportive they have been.
5:49Anthony Scaramucci:She has talked about the president. She did it again, saying that he's created this very family friendly atmosphere. And there have been articles written, you go back and you look through the Wall Street Journal, there have been articles written about conservative women now having it all. And this week, the answer to that having it all question quit. Meanwhile, there is AOC saying, actually, I can't have it all at the same time. It's really difficult to do. I'm a member of Congress. There is also the chance, of course, that AOC might run for president in a couple of years' time. But I am freezing my eggs because I want to delay that decision.
6:27Anthony Scaramucci:And so it's a story of these two women. But actually, I think, Antony, it's a story of a much bigger culture war that is happening between the MAGA right and the progressives about having children. And it's got wrapped up in J.D. Vance's kind of pronatalism policies. And I don't know that Levitt's departure makes a very big difference to this story in terms of, you know, suddenly MAGA women are going to say, okay, we can't have it all. We have to stay home and have children. But I think for MAGA women who are saying, we can do it all with the support of our church and our family and, you know, just don't whine about it.
7:03Anthony Scaramucci:Literally some of them I've read have said, you know, literally don't complain about it. Just get on with it. Just get to work. It kind of suggests that it's harder than it looks.
7:11Katty Kay:There's a culture thing going on. I want to talk about the United States for one second. The U.S. is still in this battle from the feminine mystique, Caddy. And so Betty Friedan wrote this book, and it was right at the time that birth control became available in the United States. We're talking late 50s, early 60s. And we had a women's liberation movement, which was really my mother's generation, our mother's generation. And there's still a battle going on. And there's a Bible Belt culture that says, hey, stay home, make as many babies as possible, go to church. But then there's also an independence culture saying, well, you know, you can bring home the bacon and fry it up in the pan like the old advertising was related to different women's fragrances.
8:01Katty Kay:So to me, I admire both. I'm not here to choose one or the other, but I do think this is where the culture line is drawn. And I guess the question I have for you, who wins that in the United States, Katty? Or is it even? Is it even in terms of the way people will portray that?
8:22Anthony Scaramucci:I think there have been some shifts recently ahead of this. I did a bit of digging around on some of the data on this. And one of the things that I found that was super interesting is that back in 2010, young liberal women and young conservative women were having children at almost exactly the same rate. today there is a 35 point gap in those two groups of people so 75 percent of young liberal women are childless 40 percent of young conservative women are childless i biology doesn't move that fast anthony but politics does so there is something political about this and this message that is coming out from people on the MAGA right, the whole trad wife movement, that you should be a stay at home mom seems to be getting through to more conservative young women.
9:23Anthony Scaramucci:I mean, this this fight is real on the MAGA right, because you got somebody like Erica Kirk, who back in April gave this advice to young women, saying that her advice to young women was work hard. She got a backlash from the kind of travel trad wife movement with Keira Davis, who kind of represents who's an online influencer in that movement, saying, look, you know, pretending that having having a job is better than being a mom who stays at home is actually disturbing. I mean, she called it literally disturbing to pretend that it was better to have a job. So on the right, the stakes have been set that you have to be able to kind of either do it all without complaining about the tension that there is there and getting your kind of faith in your church and your job to support you.
10:09Anthony Scaramucci:But you don't complain. You don't want to be one of those liberal whiners. Or you just stay home and you don't have a job and you do have kids. And that seems to be playing out in the numbers. So I guess given those numbers, the right is winning.
10:24Katty Kay:Yeah, but it wasn't clear in the beginning, right? So in my new book coming out of September, All the Wrong Moves, I talk about the transition from Ronald Reagan, which I would say was trade five, but it was also polite back then, to the Clintons, where if you remember, the first lady was coming in to run the healthcare for the administration, and the Americans thought, well, that was unheard of. And there was a culture clash back then, but it was not as combative as it is today. And I guess you're going to be right, though. I think this country is way more conservative socially than any of us would have guessed 10 or 15 years ago.
11:05Katty Kay:And it's just interesting. But, Cady, respond to this, though. The UNH, University of New Hampshire poll, has AOC at 22 % for the 2028 presidency. She's the head of Buttigieg. She's the head of Kelly, Senator Kelly, him and Newsom are approximately 8 % to 9%. Is she running for
11:27Anthony Scaramucci:president? She was asked about this last week, right? And she didn't deny it, which is probably the most sensible thing to do. Because if you deny it at this point, say, well, I'm happy being a congresswoman from New York. Nobody really believes you anyway. So better to say that you're considering your options and you'll look at the landscape. I would be very surprised at this point if she didn't jump into that primary race. She's pretty aware of her own mind, AOC. And so if she suddenly decides, listen, I can't get anything done. This is a fight I don't want to have. I could see her pulling out because I think she's capable of doing that.
11:55Anthony Scaramucci:But I also think that at the moment, all the signals are that she's running. And I wondered, like you, did she make that video saying I'm freezing my eggs as a sign that I have other things I need to do for the next couple of years and I'm not going to have time to have children?
12:10Katty Kay:Or the Senate. Well, listen, she's got she's got a 20 point lead over Chuck Schumer. If she wants to drop into the Senate race and compete against Chuck Schumer, he's going for a sixth term. So that that's a possibility as well. You know, you know, listen, I, I, I want to say one thing to you and I got to get your reaction. Okay. You're ready. Caddy. Go on. Woke one. Woke one was crazy.
12:35Anthony Scaramucci:Isn't that the best we had? We were talking about that on Monday with Ed Elson. We missed you. I hope you had a great time on the Disney cruise. we decided that we would never go on a Disney cruise, but we were here doing the show. And Woke One Was Crazy is the new bumper sticker for the Democratic Party.
12:51Katty Kay:I booked a trip to Alaska on the Disney cruise next year, Kat. I'm just letting you know. OK, so I mean, people should try it sometime. But having said that, Woke One Was Crazy is so AOC. OK, I admire her. I may not agree with her ideologically at times, but she is saying something about the culture. Hey, Democrats, wake up. They're going to kick our asses in with this culture if we don't move from where we are. Am I wrong, Katty?
13:23Anthony Scaramucci:No, I think you're right. I think it's like when she removed her pronouns after the 2024 election, she understood that this was not the way that you're going to win over centrist voters or independents who might be concerned about it. And choosing to go on a Sunday TV show and use a phrase like that, even though she attributed it to somebody else, she knows it's going to get a ton of attention. It's the new bumper sticker for Democrats who are from the center. And look, we saw that race, right? Ed and I spoke about the Wisconsin race. Actually, there's been pushback against the DSA as well. So she's, you know, that whole woke, I hate Thanksgiving, Thanksgiving should be canceled thing did not work for Francesca Hong.
14:05Anthony Scaramucci:in Wisconsin in the gubernatorial race. And I think she's AOC is on to something. And it's interesting. What's interesting here is that she decided to put the thing, the video of herself injecting herself ahead of the egg freezing. That would have made me faint. By the way, there's no way I could inject myself. I'm such a wuss about that stuff. But that she put it online. I thought that was interesting too, right? Why do you think she did that?
14:31Katty Kay:Well, listen, I admire that because it's helping women. I mean, the one thing about this stuff, unfortunately, is the cost. It's very expensive. So there's a little bit of a class element of who in our country can afford that versus who can't. But, Cady, I've just nominated you the cultural altimeter of the Democratic Party, and I've dropped you into a DNC board meeting where you are now going to espouse what they should be saying and doing related to the culture in 2026 and in 2028. What would you say to the Democrats about what they're getting wrong in terms of pulsing out the American culture?
15:13Anthony Scaramucci:They need to be talking about economics first, second and third. It's costs, costs, costs. Drop the identity stuff. Drop the purity tests on who says what about certain hot button issues because that is not going to help you either. but focus on cost focus on how you can bring costs down for americans they all know how much they're spending on health care on groceries and on gas and don't be talking about cultural issues and i get it that's hard for them because the democratic party considers itself a broad tent party that also wants to appeal to its progressives and the progressives have to get out and vote too so they can't totally alienate them but if you look at studies around working class voters what they care about is financial issues.
16:03Anthony Scaramucci:It's not cultural issues. On this debate, what's so interesting is that AOC has managed to do just that. Here's why. She hasn't just photographed herself and told everyone she's going to freeze her eggs. And she hasn't made this a whether to have kids or not kind of religious moral issue. She's not gone the J.D. Vance pronatalist route. She's talking about the money. I mean, she's making the point that there are no real pronatalist policies in this administration. You haven't got paid federal maternity leave or parental leave. They never managed to get through the$5 ,000 motherhood medal. I'm not quite sure what that ever was.
16:41Anthony Scaramucci:They didn't get it through. They got through the$1 ,000 Trump account in the one big, beautiful bill. But I mean, that's a christening gift. That is not a real policy for helping people have more kids, right? That's how she's so smart, because she turns this into a real economics issue.
16:58Katty Kay:So there is something, as you know, one of the things I do when I'm not working for Goldhanger is I analyze the economy. I will say this about the big, beautiful spending bill. The implementation of those tax cuts on overtime and the tax cuts on tips have increased lower income, disposable income. So said differently, wages are going up at the bottom end of the economy.
Read the full transcript
17:28Anthony Scaramucci:In line with inflation?
17:29Katty Kay:It's actually exceeding inflation, Katty. And again, it's early data. We're only a quarter into the data. But there was a Bank of America economist that said yesterday, the bottom part of the K in the K-shaped American economy is starting to move up a little bit. Right. Well, that is good news. And that is very, very good news. But by the way, okay, I'm surprised that the president and his team haven't jumped on that data, number one. And then number two, if I were a Democrat, I would say, hey, guys, follow the cue because in the horseshoe, Caddy, in the horseshoe, the right wing populism has some of the same policies as the left-wing populism, follow the horseshoe, and go with, forget about your ideology, go with what is working for the people who you're trying to get the votes from.
18:23Katty Kay:So she understands that better than most Democrats, by the way. That would be also my assessment of her.
18:29Anthony Scaramucci:Which is why Trump's former pollster, Adam Geller, was telling people on the right, don't jump on this AOC stuff. Don't start trashing AOC for freezing her eggs. Don't take the bait because actually there's a lot of working class women in a similar position who we would quite like to have vote for us. Okay, we're going to take a break and come right back and talk about the best story of the whole week. Did the president enjoy being in a catering cart on an airplane?
19:06Anthony Scaramucci:Welcome back to The Rest is Politics US with me, Katty Kay, reunited with Mickey Mouse, aka Anthony Scaramucci. Guys, we are very excited. We are coming on tour, hopefully to a city near you. We would love to see you. It's in October, ahead of the midterm elections. We'll be taking your questions. It'll be so fun. You'll get a chance to come and meet us as well. We will get to meet you. scan the QR code that is on your screen right now or head to our website, the rest is politics, us.com to find out all of the tour dates and buy your tickets. We will see you there. Very exciting. Almost as exciting, Anthony, as the president being shuffled hot foot from an Air Force One onto a catering cart.
19:53Anthony Scaramucci:How much did he not enjoy being in a catering cart? Quick background for those of you who have been blocking your ears on holiday for the last few weeks, President Trump was taking off from the NATO summit last month. In Turkey, there was a deemed to be a credible threat against him from Iranians. And so rather than have him fly on Air Force One, they put him onto a military jet. But they did so almost James Bond style by shoving him into a catering cart. How much do you think he enjoyed that?
20:22Katty Kay:I think he's a coward. And so I think it wasn't about whether or not he enjoyed it or not. He doesn't want to be in harm's way ever. And I'll take you back to the 2016 campaign where many of the presidential candidates were going to Iraq or they were going to Afghanistan to meet with troops. And Trump was like, NFW, I'm not going anywhere near those war zones. Moreover, he didn't even want to go when he was the sitting president. He eventually did, but he really did not want to go because he is president, bone spurs. He doesn't want to be anywhere near harm's way, which is the great irony about him because of all of this hyped up over masculinity.
21:02Katty Kay:But, Cady, there's some details in this story that I just want to share with people because I actually still have pretty close contacts with people in the Pentagon. The information came from the Israelis. The CIA said they were medium on the information. They didn't think it was 100 % credible, but it was enough for the Secret Service to say, were not taking any chances. And of course, what was that information? That there was going to be a shoulder surface-to-air, shoulder-fired missile, possibly more than one, shot at the president's plane upon takeoff to try to bring the plane down. Now, the Qatari plane doesn't have any of the anti-missile ABM technology.
21:47Katty Kay:And so that was a non-starter for that plane. And so they put them on the old legacy plane. And of course, they made the switch because they were super worried. But Katty, what does that say about the people that the president left on legacy Air Force One?
22:05Anthony Scaramucci:Yeah. So on the old Air Force One that flew to the UK and got reunited with Qatari Air Force One, while the president was flying on a C-32A, which is a American Air Force jet from Ankara, he left on legacy air force one i love this we could have like code signals anyway legacy air force one had all of the press and quite a lot of the members of the white house entourage only three people from the white house entourage plus pete hegseth through on the air force plane the c32 and on the legacy air force one was the press marco rubio who reportedly we now know knew about the decoy plane, that he was sitting on a decoy plane.
22:51Anthony Scaramucci:And Scott Bessent, the Treasury Secretary, we don't know, according to reporting, whether he knew he was sitting on a decoy plane.
22:56Katty Kay:Did he go from little Marco to decoy Marco? I mean, is the president now going to call him decoy Marco? I mean, my God.
23:03Anthony Scaramucci:I think that using a decoy isn't a scandal. I mean, I think that was a smart move, leaving the press and several members of the White House and a couple of cabinet secretaries on it, even though President Trump is now trying to say, well, the plane I went on was probably the more risky. Well, then that's ridiculous because why would he have gone on that plane? Of course, it wasn't more risky. It was accompanied by F-16 jets all the way from Ankara to London. It was the more safe plane. But to leave the press on there. And then, of course, what was interesting is that he leaves the press on there and the press does what the press does.
23:38Anthony Scaramucci:They notice things like, wow, we've been asked to shut the blinds before takeoff. That's the kind of thing we're usually asked to do when we travel as a press pool on Air Force One. We're usually asked to do that when there is a threat in a war zone. So they clock it. Then they get to London and there's a 40 minute wait before they're allowed to leave the aircraft because during that time, they've got to get President Trump back onto the legacy Air Force One and walk off the steps as if he's been there the whole time. They clock that too. And so then the press starts asking questions, which is what the pesky reporters do.
24:14Anthony Scaramucci:And that's how they unravel the whole story, because the whole process of the journey had already made them think there's something odd here.
24:21Katty Kay:Katie, you're a member of the press. I want to go back in time for a second and get your reaction to this. Okay. The White House in March of 2000, before a Clinton flight from India to Pakistan, they did something very similar, but they notified the White House Association, the Press Association. Susan Page was notified and she said, listen, we're doing this. OK, something also similar happened in 2003 when the president made a surprise trip. This would be George W. Bush made a surprise trip to Baghdad and serve Thanksgiving dinner. But the press was told what was going on and they were asked to please, for security reasons, keep this under wraps.
25:05Katty Kay:This administration did none of that. And then I want to tie this back to the White House Correspondents Association dinner. county. This administration is so hostile to the press, okay, and they've broken every norm. Should the press be like, yeah, no problem. Let's have the White House Association Correspondents Dinner next year, no problem. Let's continue to fly around with this guy on Air Force One and let him do whatever the hell he wants to do.
25:37Anthony Scaramucci:What's your reaction to all of that? I think there is a real credibility issue here that actually hurts the White House because this White House says it's the most transparent White House in the history of White Houses, right? It's often saying that. You and I have both heard the president say that. Caroline Leavitt has said that. Stephen Miller says it all the time. It's just not true. They just don't tell us everything. And so when something like this happens, they've kind of used up quite a lot of their credibility. But I think the other way they've used up their credibility, and I wanted to get your reaction to this, the problem isn't really, the big problem isn't that the administration is lying about this one decoy and didn't follow protocol and tell the press.
26:22Anthony Scaramucci:I think the problem is that the administration uses the word emergency so freely that it no longer buys them any political capital even when the emergency is real. So, well, we have to have tariffs because that's an emergency. We've got to do boat strikes off however many boats it is off the coast of Venezuela because that's a national security emergency. And then when there is a real national security emergency and the story comes out like this one, everybody has a lot of questions. Was the intelligence really real? You know, should we have trusted the Israeli intelligence? Why did he leave the press on the plane?
27:03Anthony Scaramucci:You know, was the secretary of state sitting in a decoy? And I just think they have they've overused this word emergency so much that it's a bit like the boy who cries wolf. And now there may well have been a real wolf at the door. But everybody's like, was there was there was this really an emergency? Because, hey, we've heard that one before.
27:23Katty Kay:One of the things I would say, man, if you're if you are a catering truck driver, don't show up for work when Air Force One is around. Right. Because maybe the Iranians be shooting missiles at the catering trucks going forward. I've just been munching that to my friends who happen to be catering truck drivers. The second thing I would say to people is, listen, these guys are going to lie to you every which way. And it ties back to Caroline Levitt. Somebody called me yesterday. You can't trust anything. You were a former White House. What do you think of Caroline Levitt? You know what? A plus Caroline Levitt.
27:58Katty Kay:She was a machine gunning liar at the top of the turret of the White House. She lied. I think she was telling 43 lies a day, something ridiculous like that. And she was saying it with impunity and she's smart and she's deaf.
28:13Anthony Scaramucci:That's why he liked her.
28:14Katty Kay:I remember Caroline Levitt because in my ill-fated time, she was an intern there and she was shaking her boots as an intern. So she went from shaking in her boots as an intern to an accomplished liar for the president of the United States. But I'm tying these two things together for a reason. This is so corrosively bad. And this is such a violation of norms between the way the president treats people. If I'm going on the decoy plane, they've got to give a heads up to people. OK, but they don't do that.
28:50Anthony Scaramucci:Well, they have to give the press a choice, right? They have to say, this is the situation that's happening. You now have a choice whether to go on this plane or find an alternative way to get there.
29:00Katty Kay:Peter Baker said this on TV. He's a New York Times correspondent, award-winning, best-selling author. He said that there were questions on that day and the White House rebuked the press. You're making things up. You're lying about this. You're liars. That is a classic Caroline Levitt tactic. And by the way, she wasn't around, by the way. I just want to make it clear to everybody. She didn't get back to her job until July 16th, which again makes me think she got let go. I know everyone else can think otherwise, but you don't return it. You just say, hey, I'm leaving. I had the baby. Only if she comes back to the job, something was afoot.
29:39Katty Kay:Okay. And I think, and I'm not going to say this because people will be super mad at me, but I'm just going to tell viewers and listeners, go look at the passenger manifest of the people that made it to the decoy plane. You will see the fizzling of what blew up Caroline Levitt. Okay. And so I'll, I'll leave it there on that one. But I'm telling you right now, if I was a member of the press, and I only play one here on this podcast, I would say, hey, dudes, what are we doing as a group of people? This is the same thing for the Republicans in the Senate. If they got together as a group, they could knock the president to the ground in terms of the stupidity of his agenda and what's going on in the Iranian war.
30:22Katty Kay:They won't do it, Caddy, because they're cowards. But the press, these people are generally not cowards. They should start figuring out a way to stick up for themselves. That's my opinion.
30:33Anthony Scaramucci:And I think they've done actually a really good job, Anthony. I know that you've had questions about the press, but look at the way this has come out of the kudos to the Washington Post, which has been massively underfunded, but came out with this scoop. Kudos to the New York Times, which has also got great extra details and to the Wall Street Journal. I think they've all done a really good job on following this story. So I think we will get to the root of the Caroline Levitt mystery before the month is out. That is my prediction to you.
31:00Katty Kay:You know, I respect the press and, you know, I'm a big believer in freedom of speech, but I think they've got to get tougher with the president.
31:07Anthony Scaramucci:Yeah.
31:07Katty Kay:And he'll say that they're too tough on him. I think they're not tough enough on these issues. Okay. This guy is a full on liar at every single point. And we have become as a society anesthetized to his lying. and these guys in the press have got to figure out a way to restate how bad this actually is. And that's my opinion. You know, I respect the press. I respect the freedom of it. But guys, you got to get it together here because they're winning in the disinformation game. That's my point.
31:43Anthony Scaramucci:I'm going to say one other point on the Iran and the plane thing. The one thing I spoke to somebody, a former CIA analyst from this region who said, be careful because there are going to be more of this because all of these attacks against the president have stepped up because of the killing of Soleimani back in 2020. And America needs to rethink its policy of taking out, assassinating foreign leaders because it comes back to bite us, because we are going to get retaliated threats. And it's only got worse since then because now Supreme Leader Ali Khamenei was also killed. There will be more Iranians who will try and take pot shots at the president like they did at Mike Pompeo, like they did at John Bolton.
32:26Katty Kay:Yeah, the Iranians are pretty open about it. They want attacks on U.S. soil. They have said, quote unquote, we will be moving operations to the enemy soil. That is the exact quote from IRGC advisor, Nadi. Okay, we're coming for you people. And, you know, we can take that seriously or not take it seriously.
32:49Anthony Scaramucci:But I think I think you have to take it seriously. I mean, six years ago, they killed Iran's senior Iranian official. And Trump has bragged about that and saying, look, we got away with it. We did it without consequence. Well, this week, the president of the United States had to be smuggled out of a NATO capital in a catering truck because of what happened six years ago. So these things are not unrelated.
33:16Katty Kay:I applaud the press for getting the story out there. But guys, you got to you got to go after this guy in terms of the way he's lying to you. And the way he's manipulating things. The punch bowl news guy, Jake Sherman, did it. And let me just give that example. He's asking Trump about his approval rating. Trump says I am the greatest president that ever lived. I'm greater than George Washington. And this is the exact Back quote. People think, many people think, I'm the greatest president that's ever lived. And Jake Sherman's like, they don't think that. They do not think that. And that's how you got to handle Trump because he can't move after that.
33:55Katty Kay:Remember, a bully's moves are one, two, one, two. They can't get to the third move if you strike back. And Jake Sherman said, hey, they don't think that. And you know what? Trump looked at him and said, well, you're right. They actually don't think that. So let's move on to the next question. More of that, please.
34:14Anthony Scaramucci:And more of Anthony Scaramucci, please. For those of you who've been listening to my series, Doing It Anyway, which I have loved doing. Thank you so much for listening. Thank you for your feedback. The guest star tomorrow's episode. Da-da-da-da. Drum roll, please. Last but not least at all, Anthony Scaramucci. I'm so glad you came on, Anthony. It was so great hearing about your background, how you've gone through so many. You've been through real career crises, but how you came through them in the moment. I love the way you were so candid about that and how much great advice you had for young people or younger people listening.
34:51Katty Kay:I love the show. There's such great commentary. And I found, first of all, you're an amazing interviewer. But the guests that you've had, I have taken your show, sent it to my children. I've sent it to friends of mine's children. I sent three of your shows to the Skybridge interns. I said, I want you guys to listen to these and then report back to me. So congratulations on the show. And I was thrilled to be invited on. Thank you for considering.
35:20Anthony Scaramucci:And very exciting. We are going to do another series coming up over the summer, guys, on your new book, All the Wrong Moves, which is coming out in September, which I'm super excited about. I've just finished the book. It's so great, Anthony, where you document how we got to Trump from all of the economic point of view and the mistakes that were made in policies. And it's very honest and it's very bipartisan. And you don't pull your punches, which I really like. So that series is going to be coming up as well. So there's a ton of it for you to listen to. You've got to listen to Doing It Anyway.
35:50Anthony Scaramucci:You've got to listen to the J.D. Vance series. You're going to get all the wrong moves. Guys, forget everything else. Cancel your plans.
35:58Katty Kay:Listen to us. I enjoyed writing that book. That was a 30-year project for me because I tried to tie in my career, my political involvement, but also what happened in the U.S. economy after the fall of the Berlin Wall, where people, frankly, were trying to do the right thing. But, you know, this is what happens in life, Caddy. You're making decisions. And again, it's a bipartisan indictment. It's not a polemic or a tribal thing. It's just an economic observation of our political economy and what happened, which led to this anger based populace. Can't wait for the book to come out.
36:34Anthony Scaramucci:OK, guys, thank you so much for listening. We will be back next Monday.
36:37Katty Kay:Thanks, guys.
36:42Katty Kay:Hey, guys, it's Anthony Scaramucci here and I've got some exciting news for you. this September, I'll be teaming up with the rest is classified co-host and fellow American David McCloskey for a live show at the South Bank Center in London. That's right. We'll be joining forces to discuss the long and often controversial role of America as the world's police. We'll dive into why the U.S. has remained so central to global conflicts. And when an unstoppable force clashes with an immovable object, it's important to have someone in the room to keep control. And for that reason, I've convinced my Rest is Classified co-host, none other than Gordon Carrera, to come and attempt to moderate us.
37:25That's right. And based on the last time Anthony and David went head-to-head during our series on the JFK assassination, I think it's fair to say I have my work cut out. To buy tickets, head to southbankcenter.co.uk and search for Team America. We look forward to seeing you there.
From the publisher
Why did White House Press Secretary Karoline Leavitt leave her post, and was she forced out? Is there a demographic divide in America when it comes to having children? Why was Donald Trump smuggled into a military jet inside a catering truck?
Join Katty Kay and Anthony Scaramucci as they answer all these questions and more.
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