23. The Obamas vs Trump

25:53Wasn't so bad with Trump. I'm voting for Trump. She's an unknown entity to me. She's not Joe Biden. I don't know that the convention is the place for policy details, though, Anthony. I don't think you're going to get a whole economic policy rollout at the convention because these people are not giving speeches that are based on tax policy. or price gouging. You're going to get that coming out later in either in a series of interviews, if she decides to do them, you're going to get that at the debate. This is her story. This is trying to get Americans to actually wake up, you know, 30 % of America say they have no idea who she is.

26:27So this is all about selling the commodity, selling the candidate. David Urban made a very interesting point to me. And I don't know whether he'd actually looked up the numbers, but he said something like, on day one, Trump's name was mentioned something like 184 times, whereas the economy was only mentioned five. And I don't know if that's figures right or wrong. I have been surprised that there hasn't been more Trump people who are actually, I thought one of the most - We got more coming. I know, but I thought one of the most powerful speeches last night, which was lost because of the Obamas, was actually that mayor.

26:55Yeah, he was great. The mayor from Arizona. Arizona, yeah. It was very short. It was three minutes. Yeah. And anti-inventioned Stephanie Grisham, who I agree, I thought was incredibly powerful. I thought both of those speeches were powerful for being so short, actually. But I would have like to see more people coming out and not just attacking Trump on character, which they're all doing, but attacking Trump, as you've just said, on policy failure. We have missed, you know, who was the star of the show or ostensibly the star of the show. I think we spent more time talking about Doug Emhoff and Michelle Obama than we expected because they were so good last night and perhaps because they were not Barack Obama.

27:29Barack Obama, we know he is the best orator in the Democratic Party and he delivered that. And there were a whole load of people who were sitting in that audience saying, damn, can't we change the constitution to have a third term? Yeah, Listen, if you've got a voice like that. If you've got a voice like that, he was so good. And if you've got that. And a sense of humor. He was wry. Yeah. Made a little dig on hand sizes. His own age. He says, of course, I haven't changed at all. I haven't aged. But there's something that I noticed in his speech that I just want to share with you. And it was time.

28:01And I don't know how to say this, but like my old boss used to yell at me when I was a 27 year old. He says, you need a tincture of time. You're smart enough to do the job, but you don't know what the hell you're doing. You need a tincture of time. When I looked at Barack Obama last night with his gray hair, very well-dressed, trim guy, he has a level of wisdom now that he frankly did not have in 04 when he gave the speech in Boston or even the nomination acceptance speech in 08. And if they deploy him and they deploy him with his wisdom, this almost shaman-like wisdom about the country. And Obama has read more of Abraham Lincoln and Lincoln's writings and through his writings, his teachings, frankly, than any other living politician.

28:54And it is really a time, and I would implore you guys, if you're interested in America, to read the speeches and writings of Lincoln. I've gone back and started reading them again. And you can catch in Obama's speech, Lincoln-esque thoughts about the country, about the need to reunite the country, about the need for us to all be part of the self-governing process. And if they push him out into the American public and deploy him in a way that doesn't overshadow Vice President Harris or Vice Presidential nominee Tim Walz, Governor Walz, I think it'll be a beautiful thing. He'd be like, hey, listen, I've been through the mill.

29:38I was an African American at Harvard Law School in 1990 where cabs in Cambridge, Massachusetts were passing me. in year 2000, and he wrote this in his book, I had credit card debt. I had net negative net worth. Eight years later, I was the first black president of the United States. I've been through the mill and I get this country. Give me a chance to go out there to explain to my fellow Americans why the two of you need to be the people to lead the country over the next four to possibly eight years. I hope they do that because that is an incredible weapon they have on their side. And the Republicans have nothing like that on their side, nothing like that.

30:21One thing I've been really impressed by this week is the, in fact, it's a point that Rory made on our podcast is just how many really, really, really good speakers the Democrats have got. And it's for an American campaign, quite short. And if you sort of imagine that you're going to have a day where Obama's the big support act another day where Hillary is another day where Bill Clinton is another day where Shapiro might be another day where Buttigieg who's interviewed by the way I've watched some of his interviews this week that guy's a communications genius let me tell you he's great and so whereas Trump is it right that there's only four members who served him with him under the cabinet who are actually still saying they're gonna 19 who say they won't they won't endorse him so that sense of you know and you talk about Lincoln a lot and I agree with I think Lincoln's one of the greatest, well, he's one of the greatest politicians ever, but his speeches are still worth reading today.

31:14But that thing that Harry Truman said about, you know, it's amazing what teams can achieve, provided nobody cares who gets the credit. I think if they've got, for all the tensions that I've been hearing about, and I've heard you talk about as well, there have been tensions between Biden and Obama. There have been tensions between Harris and Obama and all that. But if you can get these guys on the same pitch for a campaign where they are very generously playing very much second fiddle to Kamala Harris, it could be unbelievably powerful. They are desperate to win. Yeah. They are desperate to beat Donald Trump.

31:43And getting on the same team is not going to be difficult for them this time around. They'll put all of that aside in order to get her through November. After that, let's see what happens. But they'll get her through November. Barack Obama was very gracious about Joe Biden last night. And he actually took time to thank the former president and said nice things about him. I mean, the implicit criticism of Barack Obama is there he is saying, as you just said, let's all come together, which is exactly what he said in 2004. The country is more divided today than it was when he made that speech back in 2004.

32:12So although that was his aspiration, he hasn't actually managed to deliver it or he didn't during his presidency. OK, we're going to take a quick break and then come back with a couple of guests from the convention floor. And then we will talk about the rumors that RFK Jr. is dropping out. Stay with us.

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34:30Okay, so we're standing inside the convention hall and I've just been onto the floor and I have grabbed out Kaylee from the Pennsylvania delegation because Anthony Scaramucci asked to speak to somebody from Pennsylvania. So Kaylee, tell me who you are and what you're doing here. Yeah, my name is Kaylee Warner. I just turned 21 years old. I'm a student at Indiana University in Bloomington, Indiana, and I'm here to make history. But you're here with the Pennsylvania delegation. I am, born and raised in Pittsburgh. So what does a delegate from Pennsylvania do at the Chicago Democratic National Convention?

35:02What's your role here? Fair question. We actually got to do our role as delegates a few weeks ago when we nominated Vice President Harris and Tim Walls to be on the ballot come November. And now we all get to come together, celebrate, party, and get everyone energized and excited behind this ticket. So you're 21. You must be one of the youngest delegates here. Yes, I am. The youngest, perhaps? Definitely the youngest in Pennsylvania from what I know. What are you thinking about the change at the top of the ticket? And I know I'm asking this specifically this question to you. As a young person.

35:33Exactly, Kay. I get it, yeah. I mean, did you look at Joe Biden and your heart went pitter-patter and you thought, wow, this is great? Or did you look at Joe Biden and think, my God, he's older than my great-great-grandfather. I need somebody younger. Listen, I've always been a politics junkie. So for me, I was very excited to stand behind that ticket. But a lot of my friends are not addicted to the news the way that I am. So for them, there has been a little bit less excitement around the Democratic Party in the past few months. But the second this campaign switched up, and now Kamala Harris is at the top of our ticket, I have seen incredible amounts of excitement and energized delegates and energized youth behind this ticket.

36:10And I think that more than anything, people are just excited to see themselves in an elected official. She's not that young. She's my age. She's 60. She's definitely not that young, but she's a woman and she's from minority background. And I think that that resonates with a lot of people, especially a lot of the young women that I know and I'm friends with. And then we also have Tim Walz, whose daughter is my age. And she... By the way, Hope, she's super cool. I love the video. She's so cool. All the TikTok videos that she does. Oh my gosh, yeah. And I think that it's that kind of thing that's what's pulling my generation back is people like her calling her dad a Midwestern princess.

36:45Everybody's jumping onto that trend and loving her, loving the vibe and energy that's being spread right now. So Kayleigh, how do you see it translating into votes and to the Democrats' chances in November? Because as you said, a lot of people are not political junkies. Everybody here at the convention is. But there are millions of Americans who have busy lives there. They've got kids. They've got jobs. They're studying in college. They haven't really tuned in yet. How do you think the change at the top of the ticket will actually translate to votes? Well, when I was growing up, I was raised with a set of values of respecting other people and uplifting people and this sense of community everywhere you go.

37:24I didn't learn till much later that that is what politics is all about. And so I've been urging people my generation to realize that whatever ticket you're voting for, you're voting on your values and everything that you stand for. So for everyone out there, every average American, it's about us finding ways that we can work towards those values. And whether that's in small ways, like getting your neighbor, helping drive your neighbor to the polls so they can cast their ballot for whoever they want. Or if it's in big ways, like starting to get out the vote campaign and showing people all about voting rights in the United States and how lucky we are today that we get the opportunity to show up and vote.

37:58Because that's not the way it is in every country. And that's not the way it was in America a long time ago when only men could vote. White men. White men. Yeah, exactly. And so I think that we need to remember our values, go back to those and fight all the way through November with that on the top of our brains. And then I'm not I have no worries in my brain that Vice President Harris will win this thing. When you talk to people about Kamala Harris, do you have a sense that even those who are not politically active will turn out and vote and might not have done for Joe Biden? Oh, yes. Oh, yes.

38:29I think it's this excitement and energy that's being brought to youth right now that we just haven't seen in so long. People, I mean, this is going to be my first time voting in a general election. So, uh, my peers, for my peers, it's the same way. And that's a little bit different for us because, uh, our first time voting, we were looking at, I mean, to put it bluntly, two old white men that were our options. And that's not so fun as like a young first time voter to be going out to the ballot box and casting a vote for. And, um, I know that maybe Kamala isn't that young, but it's creating excitement for all of us.

39:02So, Kate, is it about her and the kind of atmosphere that there is around her as much as it is about her specific policies? What is it that's important to you? I think she has many of the same policies as President Biden did. And that's why I was excited to become a delegate for him and excited to come here and cast my vote for him. I think the difference is that she brings with her an energy, an energy that's contagious and that's going to carry us very far as a Democratic Party. A vibe. Yes, exactly. I mean, there will be people who will vote just on the basis of a vibe who will not have checked out her economic policies, will not have checked out her positions on fracking.

39:35For example, in Pennsylvania, she did in the 2020 election say that she opposed fracking. Yes. It's an important issue in the state of Pennsylvania. Very big in Pennsylvania. Would you like to see her reverse herself more forcefully? Do you think Pennsylvanians are happy with the fact that she has said, actually, you know what, I've changed my position on fracking. Does that go far enough to people you speak to? Pennsylvania is a swing state. So we're going to get people who think everything from yay fracking to let's get rid of it and everything in between of laws and policies. So I think that there's there's no answer that she could give that's going to directly affect the way that the Pennsylvanians will vote for her.

40:12But what I do think is that she needs to keep up this vibe, this energy, this enthusiasm. And it won't be about voting on one policy in November. It's about voting on every policy combined. and that's basic human rights and decency. Kayleigh, what worries you about this election? Oh, so much. That's the worst question to ask me. My mom always say that I'm a worry ball. But what I've been getting better at is handing her my worries and getting out there and doing the work that needs to be done and letting her hold them. So I'm trying not to think about that and I'm trying to continue to motivate and excite my peers and get the work done through November.

40:48Do you feel as a young delegate that really your role here is to get other young people out to vote? Is that your biggest asset to the Pennsylvania delegation? Well, I think that everyone here, their job is to create this excitement while we're at the DNC that we can bring home to our own communities. And within my community, there are 17 of us delegates. And so within those 17 of us, I'm the youngest. My job is to bring this back to all the young people like me who get to vote for the first time. And so that's that's I'm carrying that weight on my shoulders. I have to let you get back into the floor.

41:17But here's one more question. Yes. Do you feel you know what Kamala Harris stands for? Absolutely. And she stands for every human being mattering in this country and abroad. Okay. Kayleigh, thank you very much for joining me. Thank you so much.

41:34So that was Kayleigh from Pennsylvania, Alistair. I mean, that is what we call - She's got your vote. She's a message machine. Do you know what I've been really struck by, wandering around the place just talking to people, is that, you know, you talked earlier about, you know, low information people and that sense of there being kind of quite a lot of people who are not well educated and presumably not very articulate and so forth. I am amazed at the articulacy of the average person that you talk to at this convention. That was exceptional, I thought. She was like, not a single um, not a single ah, not a single pause when you ask some pretty, you know, tricky questions.

42:14Just knowing what to say and how to say it, I thought it was really impressive. Anthony? I found you a delegate from Pennsylvania. Yeah, well, I'm impressed and I'm also impressed at the age of the delegate. And I would also say to you that if you put her at those universities, Pitt, Carnegie Mellon, and you put her around the state, even if you go to Wilkes-Barre, Scranton, University of Pennsylvania, if you get her to speak and you get her to canvas, she will do phenomenally well in that state. And that is a very weird state. And I think You guys know this, but it's important to just repeat it to viewers and listeners.

42:50The left side of the state feels a lot like Ohio. It's industrialized, post-industrial era, steelmaking, the Pittsburgh Steelers. The eastern side of the state is more like the Northeast Corridor, the Amtrak side of the state, Philadelphia being more liberal. Pittsburgh actually more conservative. The middle of the state, they call it pencil Kentucky because it's really a lot more like Kentucky than it is either of the two ends of the state. So what we did in 2016, David Urban, Alistair's new friend and I, we canvassed that state for 45 days in an ellipse up and down and around the state. And if Vice President Harris does that with the help of Governor Shapiro and his offices conjoined with her field offices, she's got a really, really good chance to win the state, but she better have an answer on the fracking.

43:45Got to have an answer on the fracking. All of that nice stuff that was just said by that 21-year-old, yeah, that's great, but what is your position now on fracking? And will the Pennsylvanians that need fracking for their lifestyles, will they support her if she's moderating her position? And then what happens to her with all the environmentalists on her left flank? Okay. I had one more interview as well last night because I bumped into somebody who you like, Anthony, and we did this interview as a little surprise for you. My gift to Anthony Scaramucci, Senator Mark Kelly of Arizona.

44:21Senator, the first time I ever interviewed you was back in 2008 at the Democratic Convention for Barack Obama. This convention here in Chicago is now being compared to that one in terms of energy and excitement. Is that how it feels to you? I feel like there's even more energy here. And that's because remember in 2008, who Barack Obama was running against? John McCain, right? John McCain was a hero of mine. And I obviously supported Barack Obama, Barack Obama, one of our greatest presidents. But John McCain, conservative, stand-up Republican, who was a patriot, who served our country in a way I would not, I mean, in a way that most people can't even understand.

45:00As a prisoner of war, as a Navy combat pilot, and then as a U.S. Senator, U.S. House member, and then as a U.S. senator, candidate for president. I mean, and that's what 2008 was. And now we're here in 2024 and you have an experienced prosecutor as an attorney general, U.S. senator, vice president, running against a convicted felon. You can't make this stuff up. And by the way, this is a guy, what did he do when he was president? He gave a giant tax cut to himself, a billionaire and his billionaire friends. He shredded a bunch of our alliances and sucked up to a bunch of dictators. And then he took away women's reproductive rights.

45:40So that's why you have a lot of this energy. I mean, it's Kamala Harris and Tim Walz, great candidates, great leaders, experience, have a record of accomplishments, both of them. But on the other hand, you almost couldn't come up with somebody that, in my opinion, is the worst candidate. A couple of weeks ago, I interviewed you and I asked you whether you would make a good vice presidential candidate because of your stance on the border. do you think that Kamala Harris still has vulnerabilities when it comes to the issue of immigration? You dubbed the question, by the way, very elegantly. She gets it.

46:14She has already said that if we bring back that bipartisan border security bill, she would sign it. She's worked on this issue. The White House has worked on this issue with me. We've made incredible progress. The numbers, the border crossing numbers are down significantly. Now, here's what's unfortunate. This stuff really should be done through legislation, And we were so close. But Donald Trump told Republican senators who who who were about to vote for the legislation that they had to walk away from this. And then what they did is they ran away from it. I have never seen such a hypocritical move in Washington as I did when Donald Trump told them that they couldn't vote for this.

46:53I mean, this is Washington, D.C. we're talking about. This is like the craziest, most hypocritical thing. There is some hypocrisy in Washington, D.C. But this is like, this is off the, this will go down in the history books as the most hypocritical thing anybody has ever done in serving in public office. To talk about this issue over and over again. And then finally get to the point where we actually have a very reasonable solution that was going to provide more pay for Border Patrol agents. Border Patrol unions supported this. More pay, more Border Patrol agents, more CBP officers, more machines to detect fentanyl.

47:25Think about that for a second. We do not have the funding for those machines because Donald Trump killed it. What that means is more fentanyl now comes across the border. It would have been detected. More people now die of overdoses because Donald Trump told Senate Republicans. Do you think he cares about that? No, I don't think he cares about it. He only cares about himself. He's made this very clear. I've been watching this guy since the early 1980s. He cares about one person, and that's Donald Trump. He doesn't care about the American people. Kamala Harris cares about families and members of the military who serve, who have paid the ultimate price in service to our country.

48:05Donald Trump calls them suckers and losers. Is she going to win Arizona, your state? Yeah, she's going to win Arizona and she's going to win the White House.

48:16Anthony, I know that you wanted Senator Mark Kelly to be the VP pick for Vice President Harris. What did you think of what he said there? I didn't think he actually said anything massively substantive apart from the fact that she felt she wasn't going to be vulnerable on the border. He's on message. He's a good messenger. It's interesting that Alistair agreed with me. He thought he should also be the vice president. I think he would have covered more ground for her. I guess what we don't know is in the vetting process. We never know. You know, did somebody have a tax indiscretion, God forbid, or did somebody pay a non-documented worker to do domestic housekeeping in their house?

48:55We don't know. So, and I'm not saying he did any of those things, but I think he is the right guy because she would have gotten Arizona. He would have helped her so much on that border issue. And he would have helped her in Virginia, guys, because we're loaded up with Navy in Virginia. We're loaded up with veterans, retired veterans in Virginia. He's a naval aviator. He's an astronaut. She would have gotten a two-for-one special with him. And I'm not saying that Governor Walz isn't a good guy and isn't a good messenger for her. And I think he plays well. He has better approval ratings than J.D.

49:27Vance, although I think this bottle of half-finished water would have better approval ratings than J.D. Vance. But I just think Mark Kelly was a guy that – it was a missed opportunity there, my opinion. I appreciate you bringing him in as a surprise. Plus, he's got a twin, an identical twin. You could have had two-for-one. Yeah, I appreciate you bringing him as a surprise guest. You know, I have a lot of respect for him. And I know a lot of people in the, what I would call the independent moderate community, would identify with his life story. I thought it was interesting what you said about the interview itself, is that he had that, you know, sometimes like if you're doing a, I felt if you're doing a book tour or an event where you're having to do the same interview again and again and again, I felt he had his - He was a little on message.

50:07He had three or four talking points in his head. And he was going to get them out. But he was effective. But I'd have to say, and if I was one of these kind of floating voters just listening in, I'd be more persuaded by the first interview. By Kayleigh. Me too. In this country, I would nearly always rather interview a voter than an elected official. Which in most countries, you wouldn't say that. Elected officials are on message and voters actually talk from their heart. Okay, guys, before we go, what about these rumors that RF Kennedy Jr. is thinking of dropping out of the race and endorsing Trump?

50:44I don't know. I mean, in a very tight race, of course, every vote makes a difference. He's currently polling in the battleground states at about 3%. He's dropped down from 10%. So he's less of a force in the race today than he would have been a month ago. I spoke to a friend of mine who runs a group called Voto Latino yesterday who was very excited. We bumped into her, Alistair, and she had new polls showing that Kennedy was actually pulling more votes from Trump at the moment than he is from Harris. I don't know that it makes a huge amount of difference at this stage, him dropping out. What's your take?

51:21Well, I mean, listen, he was funded by Steve Bannon and he was funded by the alt-right because they thought that he would take – remember, the alt-right. Bannon is – look, I can't stand him, but he's a smart dude. Trump's got a high floor, low ceiling at 47.5%. Let's fund Jill Stein. Let's fund RFK Jr. Chip away from whoever the Democratic nominee is. And so if it's not working and Nicole Shanahan, his vice presidential pick said on a podcast yesterday that they are thinking about dropping out. And then if they did drop out, they would endorse Trump. So that's all the tells that you need to know.

52:02And you don't say that in public unless you're going to do it. Because by the time you say that, you're in the dark. Republican plant, a little bit of worm eating of the brain, a little bit of dropping off. I mean, he's a bear undertaker dropping off a bear in Central Park. I mean, it probably killed his chances. What can I tell you? Between the worm and the brain, this was a campaign that was on his last legs. If you need worm bait, you have RFK Jr.'s brain. And if you ever find a dead bear somewhere, call him. He's got his own bear funeral home. I mean, it's what I, you know, if I see a dead bear, it's my instinct is to shove it in the boot of my trunk, in the boot of my car too.

52:39Take a few pictures of it first. Yeah, with my finger in his mouth. Angie, can I just ask you a question? that one of the things that's kind of running quite big in the media today is this Middle East plan. And there's a story running, I don't know where it came from, but it seems to be quite big that Donald Trump phoned Netanyahu yesterday and said, don't support this because it would bad for my campaign. Now - Actually, it's a call that was made on August the 14th. Axios has the story. So it was made about a week ago. Okay. Reportedly. Now, in your assessment, I mean, And that sounds to me like, well, one, it's a repeat of the border thing of him telling people not to go with the bipartisan plan.

53:19But that feels like a really, really terrible thing to do. Well, that's a violation. Am I overstating that? It's potentially illegal. Oh. No, no. It's a violation of the Logan Act. So listen, there's news reports now about 40 years ago, 44 years ago to be exact, that there were back channel deals between the Reagan campaign and the Iranians. All of that has now been documented. And so it was a direct violation of the Logan Act. They released the hostages on the day of his inauguration. And it was all done on the QT because it was a direct violation of the Logan Act. So I think what's weird about our society now, all of this stuff is happening out in the open.

54:03And so what Trump is doing is he's, you know, I think the rules have always been flouted, Alistair. I just think that they've been quietly flouted as opposed to where we are now today, where they just do it brazenly right out in the open. And remember, this was like a weird thing about the Trump administration. My attorney said to me, are you going to go work for the Trump administration? I said, yes. It was a really stupid idea, but I did it. And so you got to sell everything. So I began the process of selling everything. Then I got my ass fired and then I stopped selling things. Okay. But all these other guys, they never sold anything.

54:37Including Trump. And it was, it was included. Well, Trump didn't have to. He's the only exclusion in the law. Okay. Because they had to get Washington in the position and they, and Washington said, I'm not selling Mount Vernon. And so I said, okay, we're going to make an exclusion for the president. So Trump didn't have to sell anything, but the ethics required that everybody else in the room had to sell things. None of them sold anything. And nobody went after them. Nobody went after them, not the Department of Justice, not the ethics board. And so it's a weird time. Alistair, that is absolute wrong thing to do.

55:07But let me tell you something. It's an economic and political interest for Netanyahu not to cut that deal. Why not wait now? If he gets Trump, he's going to get more out of Trump. Biden is gone. He has little to no relationship with Vice President Harris, although coincidentally, on the July 2018 trip, she did have a meeting with him. I don't know how many more meetings she's had subsequent to that. But I just think it's a terrible thing. And I'm glad it was exposed. Will he deny it? Netanyahu's office put out a statement in the Times of Israel and denied that this phone call has taken place. Journalists are now trying to ascertain whether that August the 14th call did take place the logan act by the way is a 1799 law which prohibits any unauthorized citizen from negotiating uh with a foreign power on behalf of the u.s government which is why he could if if he did this it would be in violation so another another crime actually potentially that he could add to his long list just just things that he has to but you know you're not hiring donald trump to stay within the law guys you know you you know at this point he's going to break the law and you're hiring him for other reasons, but one of them is not to be a law abider.

56:23We will talk tomorrow after Kamala Harris speaks here in Chicago at the DNC. I will force myself to say wait that late, as we all will. And so that's going to be a live stream that we're going to record on YouTube tomorrow night as soon as we can after Kamala Harris has finished speaking. Look for it around midnight US time. It'll also go on the Trip US feed. so look for The Rest is Politics US wherever you get your podcasts Alistair on that podcast which you won't be a part of I will be praising you I just want to make sure you know that Only if it's justified Anthony don't force it I promise you I will find some justification for otherwise Alistair it is always justified Thank you guys Thanks for listening We'll see you tomorrow Bye bye