Becoming Trump: Reality TV Fame, Birtherism and the Road to The White House

0:06Anthony Scaramucci:Hi guys, it's Katty here. The fourth and final episode of our Becoming Trump series is out now. This week, we trace Trump's transformation from a tabloid joke to presidential candidate, starting in the fake boardrooms of The Apprentice and ending on the campaign trail where he promises to build the wall and deport illegal immigrants. But in between, there's a lot that happens to him. He becomes a Democrat. He launches a wild conspiracy questioning Obama's birthplace. He flies to Moscow to try to woo President Putin. And he gets publicly humiliated at the White House Correspondents' Dinner. Anthony and I witnessed much of this journey firsthand.

0:47Anthony Scaramucci:Have a listen. And if you want the whole series, do sign up at therestispoliticsus.com. What do you think is behind the birtherism conspiracy? What's he trying to do? Is he trying to cast aspersions on Barack Obama because he wants to run against him? Is he trying to just undermine the legitimacy of America's first black president? What do you think is going on with that?

1:12Katty Kay:I'm going to say something. We'll have to see if our producers leave it in the special programming, OK? but it was reported that melania and donald trump changed the toilets in the white house residence after the 2016 election yes and they did that because of the obama sat on those toilets and if you think donald trump isn't a racist i'm here to tell you that i think he is and i don't know if that's going to get past the british censor so it's my opinion i'm going to give my opinion, based on what happened in the housing dispute, based on what happened with the Central Park Five, and based on what happened with the conspiracy theories around the birth of Barack Obama.

1:57Katty Kay:People may have forgotten how obsessed he was about birtherism, but it was a conspiracy theory that he himself stoked, and it was spreading like wildfire.

2:11So

2:12Katty Kay:Do you accept that President Obama was born in the United States is not Muslim?

2:16Anthony Scaramucci:I really don't know.

2:17Katty Kay:I mean, I don't know. I don't know why he wouldn't release his records. But, you know, honestly, I don't want to get into it. I was a really good student at the best school. I'm like a smart guy. OK, they make these birthers into the worst it is. Why doesn't he show his birth certificate? Three weeks ago when I started, I thought he was probably born in this country. And now I really have a much bigger doubt than I did before. He doesn't have a birth certificate or he hasn't shown it. He has what's called a certificate of live birth. The bottom line is this. We know that Obama now, he was born in America, correct?

2:47Katty Kay:You watch my statement. I have to we have to keep the suspense going. You watch. You're my friend. You watch the statement. OK, I think you'll be happy.

2:57Anthony Scaramucci:You know, at one point, he even claims to have dispatched private investigators to Hawaii who cannot believe what they're finding. A claim that then propelled him to the top of the Republican primary polls back in 2011. And I guess, you know, it's worth reminding people of the context of this. This was a period of culture wars. America had its first black president. There were plenty of people on the right in what would become MAGA world, as we know it today, who were happy to run with this whole conspiracy theory. And it was a time of kind of growing conspiracy theories on the right. And Trump puts himself in the middle of it.

3:32Anthony Scaramucci:And he pushes so hard for this for a couple of weeks that after two weeks of intense scrutiny, of dodging the questions, trying desperately not to give in to Trump's demands, trying not to validate this whole conspiracy theory, the White House finally releases a long form copy of President Obama's birth certificate. And what does it show us, Anthony? Cliffhanger, everybody. Guess what?

3:57Katty Kay:Born in the US. He's born in the US.

4:00Anthony Scaramucci:President Obama was born in America. Trump, classic Trump, as we've seen in our previous episodes, doesn't say, oh, dear, I was wrong. I'm terribly sorry. Does he say that, Anthony? I'm terribly sorry, President Obama. I got this completely wrong. I should never have cast dispersions about where you were born. Does he say that?

4:19Katty Kay:No, he triples down on things. He never admits that he's wrong to anything.

4:22Anthony Scaramucci:He says it was a victory, that he had accomplished something that nobody else was able to accomplish. That's what he tells the press because he got the birth certificate released. But a couple of weeks later after this, there is something in Washington called the White House Correspondents Dinner. It is sometimes known as prom for ugly people. That is not very nice. I've been to it many times. It is the big jamboree in Washington, D.C.

4:44Katty Kay:I just want to interject. That wouldn't mean us. There might be other podcast hosts that they could be referring to. but not us, Katty Kay. I'll maintain that. Okay, keep going.

4:54Anthony Scaramucci:So everyone turns up at the White House Correspondents Dinner, the whole of Washington goes, the president is there, and one of the guests of the Washington Post, the journalists all invite guests, and the Washington Post has invited one Donald Trump. This is very shortly after the White House has felt pressured into releasing the birth certificate. Trump attends the White House Correspondents Dinner. And Barack Obama is, as tradition has it, the president at the time who gives a roast and he decides to lay in to one Donald Trump. Take a listen.

5:30Katty Kay:No one is happier. No one is prouder to put this birth certificate matter to rest than the Donald. And that's because he can finally get back to focusing on the issues that matter. like did we fake the moon landing

5:50what really happened in roswell and where are biggie and tupac

5:59Anthony Scaramucci:so what is trump's reaction you were there in the room how is trump taking this is he loving it is he is he taking it in good spirit he's thinking this is just a good joke i'm having fun okay for

6:12Katty Kay:those of you not watching this on YouTube. Okay, hold on one second.

6:20Katty Kay:Okay, now I want Katty K to describe what I'm doing for the non-YouTube people.

6:26Anthony Scaramucci:So, Anthony is leaning into the camera. He's looking very, very cross and frowny. Go and look at the YouTube shots. We'll put it up there. You can see it on his face. 3 ,000 people are laughing at Donald Trump and Donald Trump doesn't take it like a particularly big grown-up person. In fact, he'd been tending to stay to go to the after parties. He doesn't. He slips out quickly and aides confirmed that he was miserable and humiliated. So humiliated that he pulls out of the 2012 race for the Republican nomination a month later.

7:01Katty Kay:But why does he do that? Because I think this is important. So he pulls out of the race on the evening that he's being roasted by Barack Obama. That weekend, Caddy, that's a Saturday night. They are assaulting the compound where Osama bin Laden lives and they kill Osama bin Laden, SEAL Team 6. and Trump has now been humiliated by Obama and you have this USA chant going on in front of the White House that we've now eliminated the most wanted terrorist, the architect of the 9-11 tragedy. And Trump looks around and says, because again, he's got good political instincts. He tells Roger Stone and others, I'm not going to be able to beat the sitting president.

7:49Katty Kay:As much as I blankety, blankety, blank this guy, I'm not going to be able to beat him. He had the guts to go in and that invasion. They just capture bin Laden. I just got roasted by him. I'm going to wait and I'm not going to run this time. And so who does he endorse, Scatty?

8:06Anthony Scaramucci:He endorses Mitt Romney and kind of switches from the position having been a potential candidate to being the kingmaker and builds up Mitt Romney's campaign. And I think this is really interesting because, first of all, Mitt Romney and Donald Trump are going to go on and have a very complicated relationship in politics where Mitt Romney finally, in the end, breaks with Donald Trump in no uncertain terms. But let me ask you a question. Let's say Donald Trump had decided to run in 2012. Would history have been different?

8:42Katty Kay:Oh, he would have got roasted. He would have gotten roasted by Obama.

8:45Anthony Scaramucci:He would never have been elected.

8:48Katty Kay:Never been president. No, he would have been back on The Apprentice.

8:51Anthony Scaramucci:And then he potentially would never have been president because I don't think if he had run in 2012, he could not have beat Barack Obama, who was a effective, popular sitting president. And then having lost, I don't think he'd have run again in 2016. He needed that open election and he couldn't have run against a sitting Democrat or a sitting Republican.

9:15Katty Kay:Absolutely no question. And once again, this speaks to President Trump's political instincts. He stays out of the race. But something happens here that I think is very, very important for people to understand. There's the humiliation retribution cycle. Yes. I have been humiliated and now I'm going to seek my retribution. This happens in the interregnum period where he's FBI raid, retribution cycle. Tish James, you're coming after me with convictions, humiliation, retribution cycle. So the humiliation retribution cycle is something that Donald Trump lives for. It's very, very important for people to understand this because he's endorsed Romney and poor Mitt and Ann Romney.

10:10Katty Kay:And I know this because I was working for Mitt Romney at the time. They were debating whether or not to accept his endorsement. And they got the endorsement where, Katty Kay, at the Trump Hotel in Las Vegas. And the Romneys are Mormons. And the glitzy Trump Hotel in Las Vegas is the antipode of where they really want to be. But they accept it. And I'm going to tell you why they accept it, Katty. because there is something going on in the Republican Party in 2012 called right-wing populism. And who is the avatar of the right-wing populism in the Republican Party? Uh-oh, that would be Donald Trump.

10:57Anthony Scaramucci:Even in 2012, even in 2012, he has that section of the vote.

11:02Katty Kay:He does. And you may remember this, but I certainly do. In South Carolina, Governor Mitt Romney gets destroyed by none other than Newt Gindrich. And I was there that night. I went to Columbia, South Carolina with Woody Johnson on Woody's plane. It was a freezing night, 2012. And we got to come out of that. And how are we going to come out of that? Well, one of the recommendations is let's have Donald Trump do robocalls into these states. We have to pick up these right wing populist catty cat. And so right there in the middle of the 2012 campaign, Donald Trump is doing robocalls for his antipode, Mitt Romney.

11:55Katty Kay:and Mitt Romney is picking up votes in those states. And it's the incremental vote that smites and beats out all the other candidates in 2012 and helps Romney get the nomination in Tampa, Florida at the Republican convention. And of course, Trump is there.

12:14Anthony Scaramucci:And then Mitt Romney, of course, goes on to lose, as you know, because you were helping to try and get him elected. He loses in the November 2012 election and Donald Trump flips on him and criticizes him for the way that he ran the campaign. To keep listening to this episode and to hear the whole series, sign up at TheRestIsPoliticsUS.com and join us as a founding member.