243. Question Time: The worst political cliches, US voter suppression, and is the left-leaning media too 'worthy'?

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0:51Welcome to the Restus Politics Question Time with me, Rory Stewart and with me, Mr. Campbell. Where you're starting, Rory? I wanted to start with a question that we often come to. Because you often say with a lot of reason that one of the factors in British politics is the domination of right -wing media. So, Chris Porter's, what will the right -wing press and all the client journalists do for the next five years once labor are elected? So I'd love you to reflect on that, but I'd also want to understand why is the right -wing press so dominant? And is it possible, says he cheekily, that left -wing journalism is a little bit more boring.

1:27And even if people aren't really right -wing, they, the punter it prefers buying a right -wing newspaper or am I missing something? Look, I think it's a pretty simple answer as to why it's so right -wing. Is it? The ownership is concentrated in a very, very small number of hands. Murdoch's obviously the Murdoch press is still very powerful in terms of the media landscape. The express itself is ridiculously right -wing and something of a comic. The telegraph has got more and more right -wing as the conservative parties have got more and more right -wing. So the ecosystem is right -wing, I think because of the ownership, I also think that there is something inherently small -sea and sometimes large -sea conservative about an older newspaper reading public.

2:13Older people are more likely to read newspapers than younger people at that time. And I think that the older versions of the news reading public, newspaper reading public, maybe do, I don't know whether we get more, you keep saying I get more left -wing with age, but I think it's probably bucking the trend slightly. But I also think that, as to, I think you've got a point about the boringness. Maybe boring is the wrong word, but I think sometimes the left -wing media is maybe a bit worthy. And nobody's ever accused the son of being worthy, have they? No, no. I think you're starting to see already what they will do, the right -wing press and the climate journalists.

2:49You're seeing it, for example, in the way that they are keep trying to get this Angela Rainer story off the ground because they want a Labour scandal. Now, if you see some of the things, let's give you a tiny example the other day when we talked about it briefly, when Chris Philip, the minister, didn't seem to know the difference between Congo and Rwanda. That was pretty amazing. He was pretty amazing, but he was back on the television, representing the government at the weekend. And he wasn't, for a far -as -I'm aware, I didn't give his even asked about the sort of embarrassment. Now, if that should have been a Labour person who'd made that sort of error, it would have been so big in the newspapers that for ever and a day, he would be associated with it.

3:34A little bit like Day -Anabot was with getting her sums wrong once. So I think that's the big difference. And then I think the other thing is that the benefits of the doubt that the Tories keep getting over policy and policy mishaps, Labour just won't get the benefits of the doubt. And I actually think Labour have made a mistake in essentially giving up on the whole levyson process. I think there was something deeply wrong with our press culture and the fact of levyson, the inquiry that was called into phone hacking, the fact that it was stopped halfway through before they got onto the issue of the press and police and their relationship.

4:10And that's just gone now. Tories may didn't want to open it. David Cameron wanted to let it go. But I actually think Labour should have kept that sort of, you know, at least on the back burner. Because what happened since that? I think the press has got worse, because they thought, you know, they don't want to take us on. Very interesting one in Germany at the moment, Rory. Maximilian Krah is the leading AFD candidate in the list system for the European elections in Germany. And he essentially has become a non person because one of his, a, it's one of his closest advisors has been arrested for spying for China.

4:47And it's too late to take Krah off the list. Maximilian Krah is, we've talked about him on the podcast before. He is very, very, very right way. And so he cannot, it's too late to take him off the list. So he remains what's called the Schpitzen candidate. He's the number one candidate on the list. But they've announced the AFD have announced that he will not be appearing in interviews. He will not be appearing in events. He will not be appearing on literature. So he's been sort of made a non person. And yet he is the number one candidate. So it'll be very interesting with that, that affects their vote.

5:22Just quickly on that. Just so this is similar to what the situation that Labour faced in Rochdale, which is the scandal broke when they were in their party on the list. And that's what led to George Galloway winning in that case. Exactly. By the way, where the hell has he gone since? Let's not even bother with that. Right. I mean, what does he do? He was meant to be the guy for Gaza or all the rest of it. I can't remember the last time I heard him speak. Purple Allogia. He probably say that all the media has biased against him and he's not being allowed to word. Yeah. Purple Allogia, who would you vote for?

5:52Don't worry, Roy. I'm not going to ask about Susan Hall again. Who would you vote for if you were a citizen of India, Turingia and the US this year? I'm going to go, poor God. I mean, Congress, I guess. We'll really get some grief for that. America obviously Biden, Turingia is fascinating because at the moment in the polls, the AFD are about 10 points ahead of the Christian Democrats, followed by the linker. SPD are right down on 7 .5, Greens are on 5, FDP, the free Democrats, the other member of the coalition, they're on two. I would try to work out how best to stop the AFD, I guess, but they're looking pretty good.

6:39So what about you, Roy in India? Well, so in India, as you know, just come back from the States, and I've had increasing numbers of people, academics and students at Yale talking about just how bad Modi's India is becoming, particularly in treatments and Muslims. And it was interesting, as we said, when we came out and did a program quite critical of Modi, we began to get a little bit of cyber warriors coming in from Modi's camp. But one of the things they said is how depressed they are by the failure of the US and Europe and Britain to criticize Modi properly. They keep saying that this is a proper authoritarian government that, you know, following on from the theme we often talk about, if you hear them, the Hindi media, and we should start listening more to the Hindi media speeches.

7:27He is saying the most outrageous things about Muslims. This is the first government, almost in Indian history, without a single Muslim representative at the federal level and only one at the regional level. I mean, and if you are a Muslim going into the Indian civil service at the moment, you face the most intense discrimination. And yet, because everybody is worried about China, of course, people are falling over backwards in the US and Europe to praise Modi all the time. And also, because so many of these countries are trying to get really big trade deals. So he has both economic, strategic and political power, and he uses it very, very ruthlessly.

8:06And voted demographic power too, because this is somebody who in Paris, and in London, and in Madison Square Garden can turn out hundreds of thousands of British Indian citizens or American Indian citizens and proof that, you know, there's a lot of voters in our own countries who are very supportive of Modi. But what they're saying, and I think it's a fair call, is by all means have a strategic alliance with them, but don't go out saying, this is the greatest democracy in the world, this man is a great Democrat. Use more of the language, you use with Saudi Arabia, which is we don't agree on all our values, we don't agree with what's happening, but this is an important strategic alliance.

8:40Yeah, I think also the fact that it is technically the biggest democracy in that it is the one in which they're the most people voting. But over time, that has established itself as the biggest democracy in the world. But I've seen very little debate about the extent to which it is or isn't a really fully functioning democracy. And of course, what you know with people who get who stay in power for a long time is that, you know, the longer that they get in, if they do have anti -democratic instincts, then the more those anti -democratic instincts are going to play out. Same thing, Rory, slightly different, but because I was on the Trevor Phillips show on Sky at the weekend and Trevor made this poison.

9:21Now, let's turn to the biggest, the most important of all the elections happening in the world, and I said, what India? And of course, he meant the one that Rona is asking about, do people in the US appreciate your insights? But I wonder if American politics matter in general or is it just your audience? First of all, shout out for the brilliant first episode of Rest is politics, US with Antidiscaramucci and Kati K. Really, really was a good listen. And also Rory, it did not you and me off the top of the charts for a bit. So we have to have a little, have a little over them. But I think, I think that people do care about American politics always have.

10:06And of course, I think even people who don't follow politics closely, I think do understand that this is one of the most consequential American elections that in our lifetime. Exactly, because you can see if we think about the things we worry about around the world, Russia, Ukraine, China, Taiwan, the NATO alliance, or you know, could be poverty in Africa, could be climate change, could be almost anything that you care about. A Trump election would be negative for those things. It would accelerate the negative tendencies. I was just talking to somebody working closely allied with Biden's campaign.

10:42And one of the subjects we should talk about maybe on a main pod in a week or two's time is RFK. So Kennedy coming through as now potentially one of the three biggest factors that could lead to Biden losing that election. And the sense that big funders are now thinking what they need to do is turn their fire on RFK because they see him as being and make sure that he's stealing votes from Trump, rather than Biden. It would be extraordinary if a member of the Kennedy clan turned out to be the last opening in the door to what would become the most right wing and horrendous and to use Nancy Pelosi's word when we interviewed her.

11:23And that was coming out next week. The most grotesque president that there has ever been. Okay, Roy, quick break in the more questions.

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13:17Stink with elections, Roy. Naomi Reeves. What would your percentage prediction be for how many people turn out at the next 10th election? I was recently shocked at my local college over 60 % of young people so they wouldn't be voting. How can we get more turnout? I think turnout. I'm afraid in the British election will be low. I was thinking about this because you keep pushing me on the London Merrill election and I'm doing so much to hold back from saying I'm going to vote for Count Binface at the moment. But if that's the way I'm thinking, I don't know how many, many people are going to be thinking.

13:50You can't do that, Roy. You can't do that. By the way, Count Binface is quite an operator unless you correct what you just said. He will have the audience leaflets. Roy is sure I can't hold back from voting Count Binface. That means you're very interesting. I'm going to give a shout out to a young man by the name of Dan Laws, who I met at his school in Manchester a few years ago. I just went to do one of my talks at the school and he introduced me. He was the one who invited me to go there. He was probably, I can't remember how old he was, 15 or 16. I did a tweet and a picture of me and him together.

14:31I said, remember this name? This guy has got something. Anyway, lo and behold, last week on National Voter Registration Day, I thought, I know that face. He popped up in my social media because he was basically leading my life, my say, my life, my say as a kind of youth movement, trying to mobilize people in politics. And there he was leading this National Voter Registration Day campaign and apparently signing up the biggest number of people to register the vote in a single day. So that is what we need. We need people like Dan Laws how they're doing that. The polling experts, Sir John Curtis, yeah, said, you weren't like this at all.

15:12He said it's going to be really low turnout. He said, we have two party leaders, three of you include Erdavie, none of them insuse the electorate, none of them is popular, all of them are regarded as dollars dishwasher. He said, the difference in the parties is relatively narrow. Everyone thinks Labour's going to win. So what's the point of turning out to vote? That's terrible for John Curtis to say that. There we are. No, no, no, no, Sir John, I think we all have to, we all have to, rather than, did you see Joe Biden's speech to the White House correspondence thing, you know, when all the press come in?

15:43And he did lots of, it was very, very funny in parts. He had this great line about, yes, age is a factor. I'm a grown -up up against a six -year -old, which I quite like. But he had this very serious part. He said to the media, he said, you know, I think this is those consequential, as I just said, there was consequential election in our lifetime. Can you guys please not cover this for the, what you call the horse race, you know, all the poles and all that stuff and the gotcha moments, but actually cover what this election is actually about and the choices of the country faces. So I think if we know me, if I can say this, if we all sit around saying it's going to be low turnout, it's going to be, Aphathy is going to win.

16:22What those of us who care about politics should be doing is going out and persuading people, do you know what, going back to this Democrat strategist I was talking to and I don't know whether this resonates with your experience of British elections, but he's said to me very clearly, the number one thing we care about in spending money in the US is getting our people to turn out. The number two thing we care about is suppressing the other side's vote, making sure the other side doesn't turn out. And number three, and it's a long way down the list, is changing the minds of independence. Does that have you ever heard that in British politics?

16:55Get it out of the vote is massively important and can make a difference. No doubt about that. Do we talk openly about suppressing the opposition's votes quite quite as clearly as they do in the US? I don't think we do. That's a big deal in the US. I mean, a really, really big deal. Absolutely. And you know, you'll see, for example, their beginning to roll into a whole series of strategies to try to make sure, well, I mean, from the Biden point of view, what they're most worried about is places like Wisconsin, where the Republicans will be doing their very best to make sure that the Muslim community doesn't vote for them, that young people don't turn out.

17:30And that's quite a large block of votes in Wisconsin. But we don't talk about it. Maybe it's because they're just listening to much money and British politics and therefore it's less. Well, I thank God as well. You know, I think people will really enjoy the interview with Nancy Pelosi, but when I was sort of looking into her background, I found one amazing fact that there was one election, I think it was almost over a decade ago now, where the Republicans spent $65 million on demonizing Nancy Pelosi advertising. Now, that is a sum of money that would cover our entire election, which was just spent on adverts against Nancy Pelosi.

18:07It's incredible. And that's not a healthy democracy. I don't care what anybody says. Sam Walker, with the introduction, this is obviously not a question for me, with the introduction of the independent footballer regulator. Do you think the government should be getting involved in sport or should they redirect their time and money to politics? And then off the back of that Andrea Rivlin, would you support the introduction performance related pan to the Premier League? Current pays far too high, perhaps this could work in Parliament too. There we are. The first part of the question, I do see a role for the regulator.

18:38I think there are all sorts of issues in football that are not necessarily properly addressed. And a lot of them related to the relationship between the sport at the top level and fans. Look, there is a form of performance related pay because even though these guys are on massive basic salaries, they also get more pretty much every week if they win, if they play, how many minutes they play, if they score. So I wouldn't worry about getting involved in that. I must say, actually, there are issues though in relation to football that I think we need to press the people who actually run the game to do far more.

19:18Let's give you a couple of examples. I was talking this week to a guy called John Stiles, who's the son of Nobby Stiles and Rory, please tell me you've heard of Nobby Stiles. Nobby Stiles I've heard of. Okay, good. Nobby Stiles was. I can't tell you any better, but I have heard. Okay, well, he won the World Cup, bring them in 1966, he was in that team. And his son was essentially saying that he died of a condition that is basically and several of the 1966 team died of a condition that many say is caused by the incessant heading of balls, particularly during that period. And they are really, really, really struggling to get any of the main football authorities to do anything other than sort of tick boxes and say that they're concerned about it.

20:05And he was telling me some of the stories. They were absolutely awful. And likewise, another issue, which I think is really important, which doesn't get much attention, is that we talk a lot about the academies. There are thousands of kids going through the academies now. Great, they all think they're going to be footballers, but the truth is, about one or two percent will make it. I think you've then got thousands of kids who basically have devoted their childhood and their parents as well, pushing them along, and a lot of them end up in a pretty bad way. So, and added to the whole sort of, you know, what the money in the game and how it's spent, I think there is a role for a son.

20:39So, in my only remote football name drop, when I was doing someone prison, I was did stuff with Asin Venger, who said that he was very concerned about young people who didn't make it. And he said that a number of the terrorist attacks in France have been conducted by people who'd been incredibly good footballers who hadn't quite made it. And he used this as a kind of symbol of some of the ways in which it can go really wrong if your whole life is oriented around that one dream. Interesting. Interesting. Bring us to France, Helene dee. Please could you explain France's position on the gang's traffickers that facilitate the dangerous small boat crossings?

21:15What's our government doing to encourage the French do more? Or do the French want the traffickers to fill the boats? France is a safe country after all. So, just working through that, I mean, yes, France is a safe country. I think that's a really important thing to begin with that people coming from France to Britain are fleeing a safe country, not a place where their human rights are at risk. And that's why I think we should be focusing on bringing people directly from places like Afghanistan or Sudan, not focusing on taking people from France. What could the government do? Well, Rishi Sunak signed a 480 million pound deal, which was supposed to hire more French police officers along the coast.

21:53And there have been two different stories about this. One is that the French police are being laxed, which you occasionally hear from conservatives. So there was a French police officer interviewed who said that he felt sorry for them. But there have also been reports on the French police being very aggressive and using pepper spray and puncturing boats. And fundamentally, though, the most I think constructive idea is the idea which labor floated, which I hope they're going to stick with, which is to sign a proper comprehensive deal with France, which would say that we will take from France, genuine asylum seekers who are really at risk will reduce the burden for them.

22:29So we could take 20 ,000 people a year who are coming from countries that risk to France. And in return, we will return people who come across on boats. I mean, I think we had more questions this week about Brexit and the irony of seeming to lose control of our borders, having said that Brexit was about taking back control of them. But first of all, this is an issue that goes back, including back to our day. I can remember when David Blunkett was home secretary and he was endlessly popping over the channel to see Nicolas Sarkozy, he was opposite number at the time. And they were trying to sort of come to sensible arrangements on how to deal with some of these issues.

23:09But I think that the relations with the French government or be it that they're better than they were when Johnson was around, I think there is still a problem with the fact that France gets so much flak from our politicians and from our media. In answer to the question, the Helene's question, France is position on the gang's traffickers. I think there is a pool that the gangs and the traffickers as we are. But I think also being very, very frustrated at the lack of serious strategy from our government. And also, I think that like in common with most sensible serious people, they think this Rwanda thing is just absurd.

23:48And that Rishi Srinak, as we've said many times, has made a terrible mistake in elevating this to the level that he has. And of course this week we've had this nonsense about Sunhack Sain. I mean, I just can't get my head around this. He says that the fact that the Irish government and our complaining that they're getting lots of asylum seekers going from the UK over the border in Ireland into the Republic, Sunhack says that shows that the policy is working. What does that even mean? Because they, we meant to have control of the borders. And the whole point of that border in Ireland is, you know, and this is why if you go back to Brexit, this is, oh God, it's just unfathomable that we've got himself.