541. Trump’s World Cup Mess and Kushner’s Albania Deal

0:00Thanks for listening to The Rest is Politics. To support the podcast, listen without the adverts and get early access to episodes and live show tickets, go to therestispolitics.com. That's therestispolitics.com. There's a lot of worry about the Trumpification of this World Cup. A quarter of the 48 countries taking part are currently facing either travel bans, tight restrictions or high visa rejection rates. for the first time ever, Omar Artan, who's a referee from Somalia, he arrives at the airport and he's refused entry.

0:33Rory Stewart:And I noticed your great friend Gianni Infantino, the head of FIFA, didn't use his amazing relationship with Donald Trump to get the Somali in. There's Infantino saying he doesn't get involved in day-to-day politics and stuff. This is the guy who gave Donald Trump the FIFA Peace Prize. The World Cup is the biggest sports event in the world, but I think this one is going to be horribly political. This episode is brought to you by Fuse Energy. Fuse has introduced the tracker tariff designed to give customers what matters most from their energy supplier, savings, clarity and a bit more control. And it guarantees that your rates stay below the off-gem price gap, which saves you up to£200.

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4:18Welcome to The Restless Politics Question Time with me, Rory Stewart. And me, Alistair Campbell. Rory, we're going to talk about the World Cup. Yay! Starts Thursday. It's going to go off for weeks and weeks and weeks and weeks. We're going to talk about the midterms in the US. We're going to talk about corruption in America. You want to talk about, I know, about Millay and a really interesting development in relation to AI. And we're going to talk about the election in Armenia. And I think my favorite question of the week, Roy, has had me thinking a lot, is whether we would, if we had another life, whether we'd do politics.

4:53Ooh. So, World Cup. World Cup. I know you're very, very, very excited about this. The question that we have on the World Cup is from Sonny in Lincolnshire. Is this the most political World Cup of all time? As a World Cup historian, Rory, do you think it's the most political World Cup of all time?

5:11Rory Stewart:I know what kind of historians do because I've been watching Dominic Sandbrook on our sister show very carefully. What happens is you stroke your chin and you say, no, actually, you know, there was a World Cup in 1970, whatever, which did this, that, the other. 34. Go for 34 if I were you. Go 34. Brilliant. Absolutely brilliant. Okay. Now, Alistair, tell us a bit about the politics of the World Cup. What makes it political? I guess one big political thing is people like you are not going to the World Cup. How many people do you think are going to be boycotting the World Cup? Is the signs of that beginning to happen?

5:45Well, anecdotally, I know quite a lot of people. Look, the World Cup is the biggest sports event in the world, even bigger than the Olympics in terms of you know viewership around the world um but i think this one is going to be horribly political for all sorts of of different reasons the reason i mentioned 1934 is that was um that was in italy and it was at the time that mussolini was really kind of on the march as it were but i think this one is going to be pretty horrible um for all sorts of reasons help me understand so

6:21Rory Stewart:all I understand about World Cups, I was at the Qatar World Cup, which actually I really loved. There were the kids because the stadiums were very, very close to each other. So it was amazing. I mean, you could watch two matches a day easily and you could just move between them. And it was a real, I think very, very unusual to have these enormous stadiums all within about 20 minutes of each other. Yeah. Well, it's not going to be like that in this one. No. So tell us about this one and how this is going to be very different from my experience. Well, it's going to be very different in lots of ways.

6:49First is, it's the first time they've ever done a World Cup across three countries, USA, Mexico, Canada. The first game is going to be in Mexico, between Mexico and South Africa. It's been expanded so as they can make even more money in TV rights and the rest to 48 countries. So it's going to be longer than previous World Cups as well. But it's really interesting you remember Qatar. I bet you don't remember this, that on the day that the Qatar World Cup started, The BBC, I think, did not cover the opening ceremony. Instead, they did a documentary on human rights in Qatar. And then Russia, you had Russia, the World Cup, and a big part of that debate was sport washing, Putin using sport to kind of brandish a different sort of image to the world.

7:36And also another big story is the corruption in the bidding process. Now, I would argue, you know, when we were in Finland, and I did the same at an event in Redford, at the Redford Book Festival at the weekend. I did my question, which is the greatest threat to global stability right now, USA or China? USA is winning every single time, hands down. So I think there's a lot of worry about the Trumpification of this World Cup. Just to give you some of the things that have happened in recent days. For the first time ever, a referee from Somalia called Omar Artan, who's, you know, this is a guy who's done African Champions League finals.

8:18He's a proper professional referee.

8:22Rory Stewart:And he was coming in to do the refereeing for the World Cup. So he's been brought in for that. So there are 52 referees from different parts of the world. There's a couple of Brits all over the world. First time ever a referee from Somalia. He arrives at the airport and he's refused entry, despite having visa, despite having been okayed by FIFA. He's given no reason. He's just told, you're not welcome. The Senegal team. Now, I think you can guess what colour most of the Senegal team are, Rory. They arrive in the United States. They arrive in the United States. Now, when England and Scotland arrive in the United States, they were warmly welcomed.

8:59They were brought through the security, onto the bus, off to the training camp, blah, blah, blah. The Senegal team were searched on the tarmac in front of the cameras, asked to take their shoes off. I think it's now 14 members of the Iran staff have been denied entry. On the referee, I heard an interview yesterday with Rudy Giuliani's son, is the White House liaison man for the World Cup. And he was basically saying, why is this guy not being allowed in? We're not going to allow anybody in who threatens the security of the United States of America. No reason given whatsoever.

9:37Rory Stewart:And I noticed your great friend Gianni Anfantino, the head of FIFA, didn't use his amazing relationship with Donald Trump to get the Somali in. Instead, he's put out a solemn statement saying, FIFA does not get involved in the internal immigration practices of another state. No. So therefore, you're going to have a situation. And bear in mind, Rory, I think I'm right that all of the American stadia are in blue areas, Democrat areas, OK, they've been open about the fact there's going to be an ice surge in some of these stadium cities so that they can be on the lookout for people who are in America supporting their national team and maybe not there, not shouldn't be there.

10:17A quarter of the 48 countries taking part are currently facing either travel bans, tight restrictions or high visa rejection rates. Four competing countries, Iran, Haiti, Senegal, Ivory Coast, they have faced full or very heavy partial bans. And there's Infantino saying he doesn't get involved in day-to-day politics and stuff. This is the guy who gave Donald Trump the FIFA Peace Prize since when we've had God knows how many more wars. And this is the guy who in a previous I don't get involved in politics said, quote, today I feel black. I feel disabled. I feel gay. in other words there has been times when he's felt I'll play into a different agenda I've just had a brainwave I'm texting Mark Carney Prime Minister of Canada he should make a big big political point give the Somali ref a visa get in touch with Infantino and say change the reffing schedules he can ref the games here and if there's any refs who are meant to be in Canada they can go to America find it obviously that they're white and they can swap down.

11:33Great idea. The other thing that I think could be life-threatening is the heat. The World Weather, the Climate Research Group reckons that a quarter of the 104 matches are going to be played in conditions which are over the safety limits recommended by the Global Players Union. There are protocols for electrical storms. They're predicting that several games will be interrupted by electrical storms, stadium evacuation. You've then got the whole thing about the pricing. So the bid to host the World Cup was won in 2018. Okay. Now, okay, Trump was in power, but it was a very different America to the one that we've got now.

12:16And the promise at the time was that the tickets for the final biggest sporting event, you know, of the four-year period, the final the maximum would be$1 ,550 okay when they went on sale the most expensive was listed at$8 ,680 then what you have is all this sort of trading of the tickets on the FIFA platform and every time you're trading your ticket they're taking a 30 % cut hotels are reporting you you are I don't know if this is a boycott but hotels are reporting they're really struggling to fill their rooms. So I think it could be a bit of a mess. I mean, I don't want it to be a complete mess, but I'm not feeling the joy that I normally feel in advance of a World Cup.

13:03And, you know, the fact that I will feel very, when Scotland kick off their first game, I will feel, well, maybe you should be there. But I don't know. I think it's going to be pretty horrible, I'll say.

13:15Rory Stewart:Right. Okay. Well, that brings us, I guess, onto the midterms, which is going to be the next big story coming out of the US, and which maybe we should have been covering more. There's been a lot of shenanigans and a lot of critical stories. Let's just try to get to the first thing. So this is a question from Harriet. Please could you give us an update on the US midterms? Will Trump manage to keep the Senate? How much does it actually matter if he loses it? Well, first thing is, there's been a lot of hope invested in the midterms. Trump is unpopular, more unpopular than he was last time round. A lot of focus has been put on the price of gas.

13:57Rory Stewart:In some states, you're seeing gas going up 25 % above where it was before. and there's been a lot of hope that if he is roundly trounced in the midterms this is going to make a real difference to trump's administration and future chances um i i got a lovely exchange with my uh nephew charlie freeman in the states who's 18 has been uh following this all for me and has sent me incredible amount of data on these races he's operating for me almost as rory operates for you. But the basic story seems to be that the prediction is that the Democrats will take the House of Representatives, the lower house, but that at the moment, the Senate looks too close to call.

14:40Rory Stewart:Over to you. That's exactly what my Rory says. He says, Democrats currently three to one on to take the House. So that means very, very likely. Senate is on 50-50. I don't mean 50-50, that's going to what the makeup is, but it's 50-50 who takes it. I mean, look, I do think it's interesting the point you made, maybe we don't talk about it enough. I sort of feel that even though Trump dominates a lot of our conversations, I feel that you and I have been even subconsciously maybe looking not to talk about him as much as we were at one point. And I think we have that in common with the public. I've been really interested how sometimes I mention things to people that Trump has said or done that I'm just assuming because he says and does them so loudly that they will know.

15:31And there's no one to know about that, you know, because I think a lot of people are just turning off the news. Look, I think these elections are going to be bad for the Republicans. The one that my Rory says we should really keep an eye on, he thinks is the most interesting, is Texas. because and what happened there in the run-up you had this situation where the two wings of the kind of traditional republicans and the MAGA crowd have made it the most expensive one of the most expensive primaries in republican history and what they've done is they've ended up and this is where i think trump becomes a problem because they've ended up picking as a candidate trump's man this guy ken paxton who is just terrible he's going to be a terrible i think he's gonna be a terrible candidate.

16:16He beat somebody who was a four-time, John Cornyn, four-time incumbent, traditional Republican, actually had voted with Trump mainly, but he said a few critical things, so Trump decided to go against him. Paxton, meanwhile, the guy who's now going to be representing the Republicans, he's been reported to the FBI for bribery by eight people who worked for him. He was impeached for bribery in Texas. His wife is a Republican senator who filed for divorce on what she called biblical grounds. He's been indicted for securities fraud. And he's up against this very interesting, we're always looking for kind of interesting democratic talent.

16:56And there's this guy, James Tallarico, pretty young, mid-30s, very, very, very Christian, and seems to sort of ally his Christian faith to everything he talks about. But if Trump lost to Texas, which he won by 14 points in 2024. So it will be tough for Tallarico. But the fact that they're even talking about this being too close to call is, you know, I think evidence of how much trouble Trump is potentially in.

17:22Rory Stewart:Quick, quick explainer again. And thank you to Charlie Freeman for reminding me of this all the time. It makes a difference whether the Democrats take both houses or not, just in terms of constitutionally, what can happen. So constitutionally, if they take just the House but not the Senate, they can block legislation. Trump won't be able to get any laws through. Question there, does he really govern by legislation? Increasingly, he governs by executive orders. If they take the Senate as well, it affects his ability to make appointments, affects his ability to appoint judges, ambassadors, officials, all of which have to go through a Senate confirmation process.

18:02Rory Stewart:Maine is the place to look. People will remember Susan Collins in Maine, who is a very, very wily controversial figure. And up against her is a man called Graham Plattner. And Graham Plattner is a sort of Democrat, larger than life, wearing a very strange, inappropriate tattoo, army veteran. Is this the guy with the sort of Nazi-flavoured tattoo? Yeah, exactly. A Totenkopf tattoo. He's a really interesting character. I mean, we should try to get him on the show. And he seems in some of the polls to be narrowly leading Susan Collins in Maine. I think Maine, Michigan, Ohio are the main races to watch.

18:47Rory Stewart:We should start drilling in more into this though, because I think losing both houses will make a significant difference to Trump. And I think we should maybe get listeners engaging between now and November in what's up and what's down and setting the stakes around that a little bit more. Okay, can we not cover opinion polls too much? Because they do my head in. They do your head in. Maybe some of the characters. I liked your point about how Trump's own endorsement of Republicans against incumbent Republican senators is going wrong for him. But also, extraordinary, he gets away with it. I mean, it shows the sort of residual power of Trump that he can do this.

19:25He's still got the power in the party. Yeah. Yeah. And I think that's partly because a lot of them, look, I wrote my column last week about this extraordinary encounter I had with a Trump supporter. I just bumped into them in the airport lounge in my recent travels. And I was on the phone to Fiona. And as you know, Rory, I always speak very quietly in public places if I'm on the phone. Absolutely. But this guy heard me saying pretty disobliging things about Trump. And then literally, the minute I came off the phone, we entered into an argument, which, and I actually said in my column that four years of podcasting with you means I have sort of learned much better to kind of control my ire when it sort of rises, but I can still rise to it.

20:14This guy, there's nothing I could say, nothing I could say that he didn't come back with. Trump is the greatest president that we've ever had. I mean, he wouldn't accept that he lied. He wouldn't accept that he did things. He wouldn't accept that he was making money. Or if he did, he said, why shouldn't he? He's such a clever guy. He's got to do something when he stops being president. I hope he never stops being president. It was just horrific. I ended up saying, oh, there's my flight being called. And I walked down, and went to a bookshop. So there are more people like that than I think we fully understand.

20:48It's a bit like some of the kind of Brexit people who are in their hearts, know that it's been a disaster, but they can't ever quite bring themselves to say that in any terms. And I think we've got a lot of that with Trump. But look, I think what we should do is, as you say, maybe focus on some of the interesting characters and some of these debates. And maybe also, I'll tell you the other thing I think is quite interesting, is what the Democrats' strategy is going to be in these winnables places. Are they going to try to come up with a positive agenda of their own? Are they going to be anti-Trump?

21:19Or are they going to do very localized kind of campaigning that relates to their particular area? I'd find that interesting. Good. Well, let's get into the mechanics of it, because the stakes are huge, and it certainly is politics. I do think that Trump wants whoever follows him to fail. I'm convinced of that. It's a strand of narcissism that I think we underrate. I think he wants whoever comes after him to be a total failure.

21:43Rory Stewart:Well, Alistair, I think maybe time to take a break. And just before we take a break there, maybe in Tombi, has Eddie Rama sold out Albania's natural beauty to the Kushner Trump money grabber? But what's really interesting, obviously, I know Albania quite well. I know Eddie Rama, the prime minister, very well. And he's been sending me his rebuttal of this with increasing sort of anger and frustration because he actually says this is like Albania's wag the dog moment. Now, there is something clearly going on. I can't believe that Krishna and Ivanka would just say, oh, I'm not really, we're buying this island.

22:19And the conspiracy theories are now saying it's going to be the new Epstein Island, that they're going to get a new Epstein Island. They're saying it's going to be a great tourism thing so look i i've seen different shades of coverage i've seen some extraordinary stuff online uh i can't remember a name it was an irish um somebody online who was irish i think an irish journalist who was really deep into the detail of who is behind kushner and ivanka and their money and it's a lot of very very very politically connected people i've seen other stuff that says this isn't about uh building a kind of luxury tourism place it's actually about them just creating their own escape from the world if it all goes tits up and the you know and the and the and the masses and the the peasants come you know with their pitchforks to get the get the the super elite and the super rich like like kushner and i've seen eddie rama's messages to me when i keep saying, what the hell's going on here?

23:19When he basically says that this is all being kind of blown out of all proportion. Iranians are behind all the social media stuff. The protests are nowhere near as big as the pictures that you're seeing on television. He's got a spat this morning online with Bernie Sanders. Bernie Sanders talks about 100 ,000 people out there. Eddie Rama says it's no more than 2 ,000. The maximum was 8 ,000. So I don't really know what's going on, to be absolutely honest. But I'm very suspicious of anything that has Kushner at the heart of it.