573. Burnham and Carney vs. Trump, and the Diana Dispute

20:18Obviously Andy Burnham will hope that nothing sort of ridiculous happens. But I hope if there is something like this, if for example, he talks about Ukraine, you know, and it's Zelensky's fault. I really hope that Andy says, well, no, I've got to tell you the British position is we totally support Ukraine and Zelensky's a fine man. So, on our map where we've got Carney, who comes out pretty clearly saying, I'm not going to be a US vassal. We're setting up an independent middle class thing. And Starmer, who's down there picking up the bits of paper. The cliche in the British papers at the moment is that Burnham sort of puts himself in the middle, has a little bit of both.

20:52Rory Stewart:I'm not sure that's a very clear value statement or a very clear way of driving the Foreign Office. And this is something that worried me. If people haven't listened to the Ed Miliband interview, I thought it was terrific. But one of the things that worried me a little bit in the heart of that is I was struggling to really read beyond Gaza what the big Kani-like foreign policy vision was, particularly in relation to the US. For example, it sounds as though, as usual, our security services, our military and everyone is defaulting into a pro-US position on Iran, despite the fact that they are bankrupting our economy in every single way.

21:26I mean, the major problem the Chancellor is facing is Trump's war in Iran. I'll give you an example of that where I think a different approach would have been appropriate. Hexeth this week said it was, quote, shameful that Europe did not support the Americans and the Israelis in the attack on Iran. Now, I would have liked several European leaders to come forward and said, well, you can say it's shameful. We all have to represent our own national interest. And right now, our national interest is most represented by the need to deal with the economic consequences of what you've done.

21:56Rory Stewart:And point out, say, not only was it not shameful, it was completely the correct decision. It was sensible. Let me just run through the 17 catastrophes you've imposed in the world by your stupid decision. Now, I don't think they can necessarily say that. I thought with Ed Bilabad, I had a long, long chat with him afterwards. And I think because his head was so in the weeds of Israel-Gaza, and I wouldn't underestimate how much of a push that was to get that through the system. that actually when it came, I think he thought Israel-Gaza, that's all they want to talk about. And then when we get on to Iran, I agree with you.

22:29I think he sort of defaulted to a position. I think Ed is going to be doing some pretty big, difficult things within the Foreign Office. So I wouldn't be too harsh on that. What I would say, though, is I think Carney is showing real leadership. Weirdly, no, not weirdly, because, you know, I think she's pretty good. I thought von der Leyen's response to Carney or the statement she made in advance of Carney, I thought was showing really to show. And this was the offer of the associate membership of the European Union. And I was really disappointed by some of the Europeans' response to that. It was basically, this is not, you know, we'd have to change the treaty.

23:02This is more complicated than it sounds.

23:04Rory Stewart:What were they doing? Why were they responding so bureaucratically and foolishly? I don't know. So depressing. What they should be doing is saying, this shows that Europe understands the scale of change in the world and that we have to make change as well. And this was a big deal. This was the European Parliament where the Prime Minister of Canada is invited to follow the speech by von der Leyen, which is like the state of the Union, the state of the European Union. And he is in the room for that. And then a day later, he makes this, well, he comes to Liverpool to watch a football match with Andy Burnham.

23:39He goes back and he makes this speech, which essentially was, I guess it was the next chapter after the Davos speech that you and I saw, where he was talking about this being a rupture rather than a transition. And he was setting out how we really don't have to just buy this other vision, even though it's noisy, even though it's loud. These are my words, not his. We have our own interests. We have a good understanding of the big issues that are facing us. Let's meet them together.

24:07Rory Stewart:And such leadership because it's about a solution. It's so unusual to have someone like that not just describe the problems of the world or pretend we can go back to the world that used to exist, but come up with a new vision. I mean, Carney's, I thought, look, Carney's a very good speaker and it was a very clever speech. I loved the starting with trees, ending with trees, Goethe. I wonder whether, do you think Trump's ever heard of Goethe? No. Not even heard of him, even though his dad was basically German. I'm very confident he's not heard of Goethe. He's not heard of Goethe. Not heard of Goethe.

24:38You can get a friend to ask him in the press pool, but I can guarantee he hasn't heard of Goethe.

24:44Rory Stewart:Okay. So anyway, it was a really clever speech. And it spoke to this change, the scale of change that is being inflicted by Trump, by the undermining of the international rules-based order, but also saying, so therefore we have to adapt. And I just think the other leaders need to be a bit stronger. Well, tell us about the speech. People talk about historic. You know, he's the Prime Minister of Canada, okay, over there on the top of North America. And you have von der Leyen, the President of the European Commission, who makes a speech, sort of just a tribute to this guy's leadership, the change he's leaning into, offers this associate membership.

25:23Now, okay, the bureaucrats come out and say, well, it doesn't mean anything. And even the Canadians are coming out and saying, well, we prefer to think about a strong alliance. It's absolutely awful. Just lean into it. Yeah. Lean into it.

25:34Rory Stewart:Let me just sort of on that one. They've got to begin developing the muscles and the confidence in which Carney is beginning to develop. I mean, because this is something you would talk about, it's going through the whole Canadian system. It's not just Carney. The National Security Council actually does planning around how do we get strategic autonomy in 10 critical areas? How do we think about what would happen if the US did X, Y, or Z? I mean, it's soaked into the system. And so they know how to do this. Now, von der Leyen's obviously getting there. Macron and France - Which I was surprised by.

26:08Rory Stewart:Which is very exciting. Yes, you're right. You wouldn't necessarily guess that. Macron and France presumably have a goldist tradition where they know how to talk a little bit about strategic autonomy. But my God, this is the opportunity for Burnham. Because if you could add to that Carney's voice, I mean, Britain, I mean, Canada's a wonderful country, but Britain is a larger economy. It's a larger military. It's more influential potentially in the world. Burnham could be doing and we're in europe and burnham could be doing this the two of them together and why not a partnership after all we have the same king part of the same commonwealth why don't they make that a partnership together look i i think i could be completely wrong could be wishful thinking i think the government is going to do a big move on europe at some point i think at the moment one of the things that's holding them back i'm afraid is as you call him my friend emmanuel macron i think the french are being quite difficult on this but i was i was surprised even i know We're going to talk about Germany in question time, but the Germans were sort of a bit iffy about this and why weren't we consulted?

27:05And the bureaucracy takes over. What she was doing and what Carney was doing was actually setting out what people are desperate for is sort of a projection of a future vision beyond this world that Donald Trump is trying to create.

27:17Rory Stewart:And it's hope and it's a solution. I think the danger over the last four years is all of us have exquisitely analysed the collapse of the rules-based international order. The great thing now, which is giving us energy over the last year, is there's a solution. There's a vision for what it could look like, which is the Middle Power Alliance and how to get there. Which does go against what we've just been talking about, which is the importance of the United Nations as the body in which this is held. So I think the United Nations... Not sure though. If the UN is doing a Secretary General who focuses on two or three major conflicts and fixing them, great agencies on the ground delivering water with UNICEF and refugee staff, fantastic technical expertise cross-border, that could sit very comfortably with US, China, middle powers.

28:07I think the middle powers should be contributing more to the UN because that will

28:10Rory Stewart:be part of their multilateral values. Let me just make the Tory argument for why Burnham being lockstep with Carney. I mean, I almost want two eyes, meld them together. It actually provides him with some cover on the Europe story. For Tories, people who are suspicious of Europe, they love the Commonwealth. They love the idea of the king. They love the idea of Canada, Australia, New Zealand. So actually, what Burnham would be doing there is demonstrating that he can do both. I can be closer to Europe and I'm reaching out into traditional commonwealth. And we'd all be so excited. There's literally 85 % of the British public will be with him.

28:50Rory Stewart:The only people who are nervous are a few bureaucrats hovering around number 10 who are like, oh dear, we don't want to do these love actually moments. Let's not annoy Trump. We need him for Ukraine. You can imagine the conversations here. Do you know, we talked to Gordon Brown on leading this week and we talked a lot about his book he's written the future starts with us and of course he's got a lot there about the need for un the un to reform when we talked to alexander stug president of finland you know the the un security council is not really fit for 80 years after the war but to get the changes needed you need to buy in the support of china russia america france uk because they can veto anything they don't like so i think that is the very very hard bit but look i i thought the the reason i was so so like carne's speech first it was well written second it was well delivered even though he's not a rabble-rousing sort of orator but i mean look i don't know if you've ever been to the european parliament it's a tough gig right it's not an easy place to get the worked up and roused up he got virtually a standing ovation across the piece the public gallery was giving him a standing ovation why because he was saying look don't be too scared by this crazy stuff why is britain still so scared i don't think britain is scared i think britain is i think they're getting there but i I agree with you.

30:00Look, Britain should not be outflanked by Canada in our relations with Europe. That is not good politics. No. Nor outflanked by Canada in our relationship with the US.

30:08Rory Stewart:I mean, we're being outflanked every which way. I really would like to see, I cannot see really what the downside is of Burnham saying, Carney and Carney's vision is my lodestar and we're putting the full big weight of Britain in behind that vision. Well, let's see what he says at the party conference. And just as a sort of small footnote in the background, you will have noticed today, we're recording on Tuesday, that Britain's announced that they're going to provide air refuelers for the Saudis in the fight with the Houthis we talked about. And you'll see Canada's doing that too. Part of the middle power play is going to be working with Gulf allies who have a very, very different view of the world.

30:46Rory Stewart:You'll also see that Qatar, UAE, Saudi are beginning to make statements about how they need to make a deal with Iran, which is not a US deal, just in order to stabilize the region and start to get stuff moving through those straits. And I think Britain's opportunity now that Saudi, Qatar and others are so shaken by the way in which Trump didn't deliver from them, made them a target, and has actually destroyed their economies basically through this unnecessary war that they never wanted. I mean, it's unbelievable what's happened to their economies now, and now the Saudi economy as well. This is another real opportunity to get these very, very wealthy, rapidly developing states part of that alliance, because they don't want to be beholden to China or the US either.

31:31Before we go to the break, maybe just reflect a little bit on the Gordon Brown interview. You got very good feedback on it from all sorts of people. But you were quite taken, I thought. I've always really been taken with them. I mean, people will also pick up. There's a fascinating dynamic in the background between you and Gordon Brown, which I'll leave the psychologists and the anthropologists to analyze. It's an intriguing thing because you've known each other for so, so long. I mean, it's really weird. I mean, you're...

31:58Rory Stewart:Who's a Tory equivalent if you were sitting there with? Oh, for goodness sake, I don't know. David Cameron. David Cameron. David Cameron. No, Cameron's a good analogy. But I'm not as close to Cameron as you are to Brown, but it's a good analogy because he's someone who's basically on my side politically, but who I have a massive personal anxieties and problems with. So you're right. I mean, fundamentally, you share so much with Gordon Brown in terms of your political vision, your new labor vision. But there's obviously an enormous amount of history being played out of Rose. So funny, because I didn't feel it, but I know the production team came and had been watching it backstage as it were and said, God, that was tense.

32:34I didn't feel that at all. Maybe I'm just so used to it. He's such an extraordinary figure.

32:39Rory Stewart:You know, I think I've told you that And my first meeting with him was when I wasn't anything to do with politics. I think back 2006, 2007, when he was chancellor, he called me in to talk about Iraq. And I was so kind of flattered because I was very young. I guess I was in my early 30s and I was going to see the chancellor of the Exchequer and number 11. And I went in for an hour and it's a little bit disloyal to say this to him because I do admire him, but he literally talked to me for 55 minutes about the Treaty of Westphalia, the history of 17th century Europe and all this. I sat there and listened.

33:11Rory Stewart:And then in the end, he said, thank you very much. That's very informative. Yeah. Well, it's good that he called here because he's not fond of Tories. I've got to tell you, Rory. Well, I wasn't a Tory then, of course. Oh, yeah, of course you were. Then when I became a Tory, he became absolutely furious. He saw me in a video with the king who was visiting the Turquoise Mountain Project in Afghanistan in 2010. And he mounted a formal protest to the palace, threatened to get the Electoral Commission involved on the grounds that the king visiting me a few months before an election and me being on television would give unfair advantage to a Tory candidate.

33:45Fiona and I last night, we went to see, we're thinking about Gordon, we went to see this new James Graham play, The Standard of Living, which is all about John Maynard Keynes. And it's extraordinary. And we both came out and said, you know, it's just incredible that an economist is one of the key historical figures from that period. And actually so much of it is brain power, isn't it? Totally. What's so weird about Keynes? And I think it's true. Gordon Brown's very, very clever too. Keynes is clever. I mean, I think even Gordon would accept that. But it is incredible how just sheer processing power and a certain amount of charm and determination carried Keynes to this incredible position.

34:25Yeah, but we were both saying that he, in some ways, you know, not the whole sort of Bloomsbury set and all the kind of, you know, all the kind of promiscuity and all that, but the brainpower and the belief that it was brainpower that you needed ultimately to make change. In some ways, it did remind me of Gordon and the way that he operates in relation to politics, economy and change. It's a great play by that. I mean, James Graham, he's an absolute genius. I mean, he's every subject he takes. I saw him afterwards. I said, look, I do prefer your working class stuff, to be honest. But it's absolutely brilliant how he takes these really complicated issues.

35:03And the politics of it is because part of the story, there are lots of different stories going on, but part of the story is the battle, the intellectual battle between Keynes and Thatcher's favorite guy. What's his name? Hayek. And of course, it plays out through the play. They use amazing black and white photography through the whole thing. And it plays out, it's no doubt who James Graham thinks is the superior economist and human being, that is Keynes. And so it's sort of, you see, and Fiona came out, she actually said, you know, let's be honest, what did Hayek's influence on Thatcher actually do to the country compared to the good that Keynesism did for the world?

35:42Rory Stewart:Again, shout out to people who haven't listened to it. There's a wonderful interview that we did on Leading with the playwright that you're talking about with James Graham, which people should listen to. I also was very lucky to be able to go and see Arcadia and the West End with Tom Stoppard's play. It's Tom Stoppard who died recently. The most brilliant production. Funny, intellectual, beautifully staged, beautifully acted, incredibly charming, unexpected plot lines. So, yeah, huge tribute to that. Okay, we're giving a shout out. It's a de Gaulle film. De Gaulle film. Absolutely brilliant. God, they don't make them like him anymore.

36:16Rory Stewart:Okay, now let's take a break and then we'll come back from the break. And when we come back from the break, we will be talking about The King, both the allegations which were made by L. Spencer and also the summit on artificial intelligence, which I was lucky enough to be in this week. See you soon.

36:49between Britain and Russia. We assess, uh, Prime Minister... with high confidence it was... Russian. Holding the Russians accountable is World War III. They took down a British passenger jet containing 350 people. Man in the Kremlin is playing, Alex. You've got to ask yourself, do you want to play or not? You're the Prime Minister. You've done... nothing! Hey! We would need to understand the policy context. All the relevant context will be structured as a framework today. And disseminated into an operation order. Or frago. A frago that says to... kill the president of Russia. Yes. New from Gaulhanger.

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38:21Welcome back to The Restless Politics with me, Rory Stewart. And me, Alistair Campbell. Rory, I know you're gagging to talk about the King's views on artificial intelligence, but may I suggest that so far as the public, there does seem to be a lot of interest in this book by Charles Spencer, which I see has gone, surprise, surprise, straight to number one in the Amazon lists. Very annoying that it's bringing it out three weeks ahead of my own book, Percivillance, cadoganhall.com for tickets for the launch. And the Mooch as well, whose book is flying. So to summarize what Charles Spencer is saying, he's essentially claiming that the king, then the Prince of Wales, said to him that Diana would soon be forgotten and he also said that the king was giddily excited about what was going on and needless to say they are the bits that have been serialized in a newspaper I believe it's called the Daily Fail that is serializing the book and the book has had massive publicity and has gone straight to number one I mean I was very very involved in that period of the funeral, the death of Princess Diana and the days that followed.

39:37And I was aware because of the meetings, there were members of the Spencer family team, as it were, who came to all the meetings where we discussed all this. And there were tensions. There's no doubt about that. There were tensions. But I have to say, in defense of your friend, the King, who was then the Prince of Wales, anything I heard or sensed about his posture on the whole thing was completely at odds of this sense of, what did you say, giddiness and excitement and saying that she'll soon be forgotten and all that. I just didn't have any sense of that at all. Now, that being said, I'm sure they were having direct conversations as well, to which I was not remotely privy.

40:17I'm imagining the king is pretty pissed off with that. I think the first thing is that I've never seen him ever behave in that kind of way. It just doesn't sit with his character. And I think that was my sense talking to people who've known him all their lives is they just don't recognize that. So I don't believe it. Now, I also am very interested in memory. I think I've told you before, I'm still mesmerized by this study that was done where they interviewed people on 9-11 and then the same group of people every year for the next 20 years. When they first interviewed them, this is ordinary members of the public, they say, I was in my kitchen in Connecticut, I didn't hear about it for a couple of hours.

41:0220 years on, almost everybody says they were in Manhattan and saw the buildings come down. Yeah, including Donald Trump. And when you show them the video of what they said 20 years ago, they say, no, no, that can't be right. That's AI. That's fake. These are normal humans. These are not

41:16Rory Stewart:politicians trying to bluff. Our memories are unbelievably weird. And if you go back over, whatever this is, almost 30 years, it's a really interesting question about why he's doing it after 30 years, why it's still so central for 30 years. So I can absolutely believe that Charles Spencer believes this, I also just don't think it's true. The thing about memory is fascinating because that was one of the most extraordinary weeks of my life. But if I didn't have my diaries, I don't think I'd remember that much of it. And now when I read my diaries, I don't remember most of it. Spencer says he didn't write anything down, but he told people at the time and all this kind of thing.

41:57Rory Stewart:So no, I think it's very weird. I think you must have had this experience because you're such a diary keeper of going back and then reading a diary and be like, whoa. Yeah, totally. No, I completely get that. So I think what he's doing probably is either, look, he's a pretty wealthy guy, isn't he? Incredibly wealthy. I'm not sure he needs. I believe he's just. People say he's doing it for money for the book. No, no, I believe, you know, there's just been another very successful sale of a couple of fields some miles from his house. It's just raked in a few more million. Yeah. So I don't think it's that, but I think there is a, yeah, sense of revenge.

42:28I also thought it was very interesting that he allied himself so closely in talking about the book with Harry and Meghan and Diana and this idea that the media are a kind of, you know, real enemy. But look, I've met Charles Spencer a few times, and I spoke, he has this, I don't know if he still does it, but he has a book festival at Althorp, and I've been at it, and I stayed there. And I find him perfectly sort of charming and clever and quite funny and interesting. And absolutely, he does feel, I think, that the media were largely responsible for her death. And he feels that the royal family didn't treat her well.

43:10I think both of those things are clear. I think if I knew something or I was holding on to something as quite as dramatic as Charles, who let's not forget was the father of the two boys that Diana brought into the world, one of whom would be the future king. I just I think if you've heard that him saying those things I'm not sure you sit on them for 30 years um and and he says he sort of talked to people at the time and okay people can have a circle of trust but that sort of stuff I think if it's that dramatic it kind of gets out it's it's it's I thought it was very disturbing and of course it for me the the sadness was that this has all come at the same time that the king was doing this big summit that I was lucky enough to at Dumfries House on AI.

43:58It was pretty amazing. If you want to see an example of the King doing impressive stuff, there was that speech, which I think you write about in Persevillians very well, the Trump speech. But this was - Oh, the Charles speech to Trump. To Trump. Yeah. I think you've analyzed that very well. I think you put that up with Carney's speech, it's one of the great speeches of the year. This AI summit was very interesting in another way. Firstly, timing, unbelievable. I mean, this happened just at the moment when Hugging Face have blown up, when the big AI companies are talking about safety, when even the Lib Dems in their conference have woken up and made it.

44:32Rory Stewart:The central piece of Ed Davies' speech was about AI in his conference. So absolutely of the moment. Secondly, he was able not just to get the great titans of AI, Jensen Huang, who runs the biggest company in the world, Nvidia, this$5 trillion company, Sir Demis Vassabes. But astonishingly, they sat at that table throughout the entire day right into the evening, contributing to the conversation. It wasn't, they turn up for half an hour, jet off, which is what you normally get in these kinds of things. And even in Davos, nobody sits at the table throughout the day, right? Next thing, he managed to get the Chinese there.

45:06Rory Stewart:So Xi Jinping sent, I think it's the Dean of Tsinghua University, the greatest technical university in China was there at the table at exactly the time when everyone's saying, well, the problem is you'll never get the US and Chinese to agree, the Chinese aren't interested. business. He actually sat him there. And then the final thing is the UK government, because suddenly it was an opportunity for the most senior figures at every level of the UK government, including senior civil servants and the AI minister, to be able to spend hours with these guys in a way that would have been very difficult to do otherwise.

45:36Rory Stewart:And the conclusion of it, they got to the idea that there needs to be independent verification of these systems. They absolutely got to international cooperation requires China. And this has then been followed this week was Scott Besson, US Treasury Secretary saying he's now setting up a working group with China for the Trump Xi Jinping summit on AI. Now, Trump remains the big spoiler here because he says the whole thing's a hoax. There's no need for any safety regulation at exactly the moment when OpenAI and Anthropoc are terrified. Also, at the summit were a couple of people. We've gotten our mini series on existential risk.

46:14Yuval Noah Harari was there, Toby Ord was there making their arguments about why they're worried and i encourage people maybe to listen to that stuff and if you did you leave it because i've been very interested in seeing your sort of journey of development on this on this issue over quite a few years now because i remember you right at the start you were saying this is the most important thing happening in our world and in the future etc did that meeting and that day totally immersed in it in the way that you were did it leave you more or less worried, more or less skeptical? What was your own take out?

46:51I think always more worried. Every time I do anything, it's more worried. But it's more worried in this contradictory way, which is it is the hinge technology that is going to underpin everything in our lives. It's going to be right at the heart of our businesses in Britain, of the NHS, of our defense and security. And we will be reliant at the moment on a US and Chinese stack, which is an unbelievable dependency and vulnerability, and we need to work out how to get out of that. And at the same time, everything that makes these models powerful also makes them very dangerous. Because all the benefits of them are around autonomy, getting humans out of the loop.

47:26And the more humans you get out of the loop, the more responsibility the AI has, and everything the AI does positive, it can do negative. I mean, of which probably the most dramatic is biosecurity risks. Yes, it can potentially solve cancer, but it can also

47:41Rory Stewart:create viruses. And that's before you get on to what Yuval was talking about in this interview we've just put out on the - Which is pretty terrifying. Pretty terrifying, which is all about super intelligence. And the really interesting thing, which is of course where Trump comes in, it's the first time I really understood Trump's position. I mean, trying to understand why on earth is he against this? And we were saying he's just trying to make money. Well, maybe part of it. I think he's also instinctively anti-regulation. But I was also reminded there that very senior figures are telling him there's nothing to worry about.

48:12Rory Stewart:So certainly David Sachs is AI advisor, Mark Andreessen, who's the investor. But Jensen Huang also comes pretty close to saying, nothing to see here, there's no real risk of this stuff, let's go, let's roll. And that anyone trying to talk about safety is doing something called regulatory capture. In other words, they're just trying to exclude small startup AI companies and they're all bullshitting. Which is easy to believe given the way that they've operated as businesses over time. Which is why Trump will be pulled into this narrative. But it's very dangerous because these companies, I've never known any company in the world about to launch a product saying, my product is unbelievably dangerous.

48:48Rory Stewart:I mean, I would take that seriously. I can't see an obvious financial interest in people about to launch trillion dollar companies saying, I don't trust my product. It can get out of control. It can cause mayhem. It's a 20 % chance it could end the world. There we go. On a cheerio note, how was my friend Finley the Piper? Finley the Piper was there. So we had this amazing thing. That was also the amazing piece. That's how I found out you were there, by the way. When you got all these grandees of Anthropoc, OpenAI, NVIDIA, et cetera, Google Gemini there in the room. And then you have this incredible Piper, incredible drummer.

49:26Rory Stewart:I mean, of course, quite loud. We're in a small room and down for his house right up and personal with the pipes. And of course, I was very struck by the Dean of Sinh Hoa, who was being very polite, but he looked like a visitor from another planet looking at a strange cultural event as the pipes and the drums were hammering around. That's what it's like. It reminds me of Mandela when he was at Chogham in Edinburgh, and there was this display of Scottish culture and all the pipes and the drums and the dancing. And he said, I'm not sure these people are ready for independence. No, really?

50:03Rory Stewart:That's a great line. Let me just finish with a final tribute to the team that put this together because of course the king made it possible, but the team that spotted this opportunity and put Britain right back in the center, back to this AI Safety Institute, the Bletchley Summit that Rishi Sunak put together all the way through to this. I think it is Britain showing again and again that we may be a distant third, but we're definitely, if you're getting behind US and China, it's Britain still matters in AI. Right. Well, excellent. Let's close there. Then in question time tomorrow, we're going to talk about Germany.

50:37And we're also going to talk about rural Britain and a lot of the challenges that they're facing. So we'll see you then. See you then. Bye-bye.