Decoding Looksmaxxing: The Crisis Consuming Young Men & The Real Path To Self-Worth

26:39And what is it called, Tyler? Like the woman who stays home. What's it called? The trad wife. The trad wife. Like these seem to be in conflict with each other or competing with each other on some level.

26:53Adam Skolnick:It's the fight for the soul of this weird consensus, right? That has like put us in this mess. Now there's the roots in violence, the roots in self-aggrandizement, as well as self-hatred. It's like a kind of a weird thing. And then there's this more holistic, but still, I mean, you can't take away violent from the white Christian kind of ideal. There's always been violence underpinning it. But like when you look at that world, they're much more focused on constructing some world, a new world. This one is like breaking yourself down and breaking everything down to the individual. So it's like these two weird reflections of conservative America.

27:37It's all about individualism and whatever it takes.

27:42Adam Skolnick:And it's constructing this familial ideal because that's the right way to live. It's very interesting. It's definitely, you know, those are the ideals, you know. I was thinking about that article because he brings up this John B. Calhoun experiment in 1968 where he built a large enclosed mouse, like cage for a mouse colony with abundant food and water, no predators, lots of space for nesting. And at first the population flourished, But later in the experiment, a group of the male mice kind of came, like separated from the others and focused all their time on grooming, sleeping and eating and maintaining clean, unscarred bodies and just being the perfect mouse.

28:30Adam Skolnick:And they disengaged from the community and they stopped reproducing. And eventually the entire population collapsed. So this navel gazing, as you said, this sole focus on how you look and how you think you're being perceived ends up not just in the Dorian Gray way of kind of making you into a monster in some way. It actually, from a social, the social cost is immense because it furthers the isolationism and it furthers the competition. It furthers all the things that are trying to pull apart. I mean, say what you want about the Kirk's turning point. They are trying to build a community, they are.

29:15Adam Skolnick:And if you agree with them, you can be in the community. It's like, there is a constructive element. I'm not saying I agree with everything, but like they're trying to build something and this is not. Yeah, the mouse experiment makes me think like, oh, if you meet everybody's needs, then left to our own devices, it all goes to shit because we just become self-obsessed and we concern ourselves with things that don't matter. Like there's no looks maxing going on on the precipice of World War II. No. It's like, this is not happening. You know, like when there's real problems and we have to come together to solve them, we don't have time for nonsense like this.

30:01But when you look at looks maxing, it's black pill nihilism, we're doing it for the laws or whatever, or Christianity, family values, traditionalism. These are very different movements, but essentially what's similar or shared about them is that they're both solutions to this search for meaning. And like if you took this mouse experiment, just imagine 10, 20 years from now, or whenever it is when AI takes all the jobs and I assume at some point we'll need universal basic income or something. And we just get money in our account every month and we don't have to work and we have to figure out like, what's the crisis of meaning then?

30:48It's, you think it's an epidemic now? Like we have to figure out how to make our lives feel meaningful without having work as an outlet or a vehicle for that. but this is only going to exacerbate this very, you think looks maxing is bad now? Like what's it gonna look like when AI is controlling everything and we are left with nothing but free time.

31:13Adam Skolnick:Right, I mean, it's terrible, right? But then back to these two things, Christianity and looks maxing, they're both searches for meaning. They're both answers to this search for meaning right now, this crisis of meaning that we're having, like what does my life mean? Oh, it's about physical appearance. Oh, it's about the nuclear family, or it's about my faith, or there's different avenues for all of this. And I suppose when you look at it through the lens of like the right wing, it's not by accident that this is happening under the leadership of one of the most, as Chatterton Williams said, like the most narcissistic and superficial president in US history.

31:57It's like, okay, well, who's at the top? What does that guy stand for? Okay, downstream of that, that's what we're seeing happening with young people. But I think fundamentally in this crisis of meaning, what you're trying to solve for is certainty in an uncertain world. Like what is certain? It's like, oh, here are some rules I can hang my hat on. Like, this is what's important. Like this competition among men for looks or, you know, faith in my nuclear family and my sort of status within my community. But we have to find not that, you know, that's all good. Like if you're faith-based life, fantastic, but with respect to looks maxing, like we need to provide an antidote to this for young men and on-ramp to, you know, get them off of this track, this pipeline that leads them towards more dangerous ideologies.

32:56Adam Skolnick:Yeah. And the dangerous, I mean, the dangerous, most dangerous ideology can't be looks maxing itself, because some of these young people are getting told to go into ropes maxing. There's no hope for you and encouraging self-harm and worse. And so - This fatalism. Yeah. This is what you look like. There's nothing you can do. There's no hope for you. Like this is just a horrible violence. It's horrible. I mean, I have a five-year-old, it terrifies me not to even think about like, so what's the solution? I mean, I think some of this is coming from just the very real thing is that guys wanna be with a woman.

33:38Adam Skolnick:We wanna have sex, we wanna fall in love. And in the old days, you had to learn how to kind of make yourself attractive to women in whatever you had. And sometimes that took longer than others, you know, and some it was easier for some than others. And it's always been that way. But now it's like you said, this gamified version of it. And it's so much more twisted. So like, how do we get out of it? Like what's the solution? I think in order to answer that question, we first have to look at the tectonic shifts in our media economy. It wasn't so long ago, Adam, when you and I were younger, that when we looked around at people who inspired us, it could be rock star, it could be a movie star, it could be a scientist or an astronaut or somebody like that.

34:39But these are people who distinguished themselves by doing something excellent, right? They earned through their toil and their talent, they're stationed in life and have done something worthy of note, they have accomplished something, right? At the same time, it's funny, cause we're all, we were talking about this earlier, like the world is so obsessed with like startup culture and entrepreneurship and like, like the pinnacle is like becoming a CEO, right? But when we were kids, like CEOs were dorks, you know? It was like Lee Iacocca was like the, you know, like the example of the successful CEO.

35:21None of us were like, I wanna be a CEO. I still don't wanna be a CEO.

35:25Adam Skolnick:And I don't wanna be, I don't wanna go to CEO. But on the internet, everyone seems obsessed with becoming a CEO. I know, I know. This is like, this is a very unique thing of our time. Yeah. But that turned, we went from that into a celebrity obsessed culture where the earning ratio was reduced because of things like reality TV. Like you just had to be famous and there were many vehicles for getting famous and not all of them by necessity required that you achieve something noteworthy. You know, there was like a broader, a wider path towards celebrity status. And the goal then became to become a celebrity.

36:07And if you could become that, then doors would open and you would have a great life. That was the idea. Now we've migrated even beyond that where it's just about attention. It's not even necessarily celebrity. It's about getting a lot of attention. If you can get the most attention, then you can make money and you can do all these other things, right? And by proxy, I suppose, like live a happy life, right? But the incentive structure built around getting attention is a very unhealthy one. The way you get attention is by doing outrageous things or having an insane point of view or being contrarian or conspiracy minded, or there's different variations of this, but you can go from obscurity to getting extreme attention almost overnight.

37:00And I think that is warping to the brain of, to anybody, but particularly to the brain of a young person.

37:07Adam Skolnick:So their ambition goes from, I wanna be in the rock band or I wanna be this great athlete to, wow, if only I was like so-and-so and have the attention that becomes like - Well, then it became like, then I wanna be a celebrity. Then it became, I wanna be an influencer. And now it's just, it's not even that. It's like, how do I get a bunch of attention immediately? Right. And not for nothing, like if you're really good looking, if you're looks maxing, probably easier to get a lot of attention. Or if you're making videos about like taking a hammer to your cheekbones and why this is a good idea, that's probably gonna get a lot of attention also.

37:43So we're upside down, our moral compass is, spinning round and round and can't find its true north right now. And there's a lot of confused young people in the wake of this. So when I think about my own work, the premise of this show is, and always has been like, how do you unlock your best and most authentic self? That could be interpreted on a superficial level. How do you like look your best by eating the right foods or losing weight, extending that to things like morning routines and daily workout routines and daily nutritional plans and everything from your journaling practice to your mindfulness practice.

38:25But essentially the deeper you delve into this and what hopefully I've modeled over the many years of doing this is that this is not a superficial exercise that your best, most authentic self requires a deep examination of mind, body, and spirit. And to become more self-actualized by necessity requires self-transcendence. You have to graduate from your self-obsession into a life that is premised upon something bigger and more important than yourself. Luxmaxing is the ultimate expression of self-obsession on some level. There could be no more superficial pursuit than this. Self-transcendence is the opposite of that.

39:17And in between, there's all kinds of practices to get you there. We're all on the spectrum between these two polarities, I think. But to me, that's how I've always interpreted it. And you begin wherever you're at. If you're a look smackser, maybe the path towards greater self-actualization starts with brushing your teeth or combing your hair or even figuring out how to present yourself in a way that makes you feel better about yourself. And there's nothing inherently wrong with that. But ultimately we have to progress, up the Maslow's hierarchy of needs in our quest for expansion and enlightenment.

40:02And those things start to fall away and become less important. But I think at a base level, if you're dealing with somebody who has zero self-esteem, doesn't see any opportunity for themselves, doesn't have the self-belief to take the initiative in life. This is a person who's gonna be susceptible to the wiles of the social media influencer looks maxer. And that person might only be able to, you know, hear the most basic level stuff, you know, and to that person, it might be revelatory to begin with their appearance, you know, so that when they look in the mirror in the morning, maybe they feel a little bit better about themselves.

40:42But the point is you build on that and you're constantly graduating, you know, to different levels like, okay, what's next? What's more? It's an ongoing search for meaning and meaning, you know, will continue to allude those who look for it in the context of their own self-regard and self-obsession.

41:03Adam Skolnick:I want to just add onto that. What you're talking about is a way to have a more meaningful life and a healthier life could begin with a looking in the mirror assessment. But we're talking about a healthier life. A healthier life would never include using steroids, which some of these teenagers do. But maybe eat some healthier food and like lose a little bit of weight and the bags under your eyes go away. Like I'm talking, I'm not talking about like - No, right, yeah, no, no. Your jawline. I'm just underlying, I'm just saying that's actually further separation. It sounds like it's starting in the same place, but it's actually not because your intention is always better health.

41:46Adam Skolnick:There's always a deeper intention from the get-go when you look at it from this point of view. When you look at it from the looks max or point of view, it's just how to get something, some weird metric. And it's by any means possible. It's appearance over substance. It's all about aesthetics and appearance. And I'm saying that substance is what matters. And I think if you're just trying to shortcut yourself to something like, yeah, it's like, oh, how you look on the surface. It doesn't matter if there's any depth to you. It doesn't matter what you actually stand for or say or what your values are.

42:25It's just like what's on the surface level. Like good luck, good luck in life. You will not find meaning or happiness or fulfillment or satisfaction. you can chase that as long as you like, but it only goes in one direction and it ain't good. If you wanna find meaning, if you wanna resolve your own personal crisis of meaning and you wanna find real fulfillment and a path towards happiness and a sense of satisfaction with your life, you are going to have to plumb the depths and find something of substance to sink your teeth into. And wherever you find yourself, whatever your lot in life, this shift has to take place from aesthetic dominance to some degree of functional competence and character-based value.

43:15So what are your values? What are you not good at? What are you good at? Where does your curiosity lead you? Start with your curiosity, find something that excites you enough to learn more and develop some degree of skill and competence in it. that's the ultimate self-esteem builder. Yes. Looking in the mirror is always gonna be an empty promise. And the more you look in the mirror, the more faults you're gonna find in yourself, the more you're gonna compare yourself to other people, the more you're gonna gamify your life and the shittier you're gonna feel. And there's no way out of that trap.

43:52The solution is to get outside of your self obsession, invest yourself in something that has meaning outside of your own personal stake in gain and putting your phone down, going outside, being in a community with other people, looking to enter rooms with how you can contribute rather than what you're going to extract in this gamified zero sum idea of what life is because that's not what life is. No. and finding meaning and value in your relationships and in cooperation, not competition.

44:36Adam Skolnick:And also it's like, to be honest, to try to appeal to some sort of construct of beauty, you're often not beautiful. I mean, you're often not. You're often either beautiful in an obvious way that is common or you don't actually get there at all. Well, anybody who cares that much about their appearance is ghoulish. Yeah. And true beauty is reflected, you know, in the person who's really engaged with life and, you know, has that sense of fulfillment that is like, you can read it on their face. It's not about the angle of their whatever, it's about like the way they carry themselves. their sense of self that is evident.

45:26Like when somebody walks in the room who's really happy with their life and is contributing and feels good about what they do, that is infinitely more attractive than the person with the sculpted eyebrows that creeps you out. Like this whole thing is like gross and creepy and weird and very like American psycho clockwork orange. And like anybody who has fallen into this trap, get the fuck out of it. Like this is not a path to what you think it is.

45:52Adam Skolnick:No, I mean, that's the true ascension. When you find somebody who has got - It's like this idea of ascension is part of this whole world. Right, right, like, so basically clavicular tries to - I can't believe we're talking about this guy. This guy apparently is a coach and he gets people to do these things. A lot of this hard maxing, which is the steroids and the crystal meth and the hitting yourself with a hammer. And - What are we even talking about? This is so insane. It's insane and it's called ascension, but. Yes, here's how you ascend. You do crystal meth steroids and you like bang a hammer on your like.

46:28Adam Skolnick:Because their face looks different. What is even happening? I know it's hard to imagine why, how we got here, but we got here. I mean, I think it all boils down to this motherfucker right here, dude. This thing right here. It's the fucking phone. It's the phone, man. It's the phone. that's what did it. That's what got us here. It's like - The idea that that phone gave birth, that these ideas even exist, let alone have captured the attention and fascination of millions of young people is so disturbing to me. Well, that's - Like, what have we wrought? And where is this leading us?

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48:30The crazy thing about all of this is that it's pitched as a way of getting ahead in life. Like if you are worried about your lot in life, here's how you get an advantage. And you're being sold a fucking lie. This is not the answer. No. But the good news is there is an advantage. It's never been easier ever to get ahead of other people because everybody is so distracted by the phone. Put the phone down, read a book, go outside, make friends, build something, do shit together, push heavy weight around, get your heart rate up, commit to doing something hard, set a goal for yourself and commit to achieving it.

49:23Push your body, invest yourself in something that is actually esteem building. Contribute to somebody else, show up for another person, do a favor for a friend, touch grass, go out of your way to see people and say yes to new experiences. That's it.

49:41Adam Skolnick:That's it, man. That is the solution to all of this. While everyone else is scrolling, if you can put the phone down and just make your life a little bit more analog and service oriented and constructive with a growth mindset, there's absolutely no limit on what you are gonna be capable of achieving because everyone else is handicapped. Right. So that is the answer. And you don't need to be sold a$99 or a$9 ,999 course to do that. All you have to do is summon the courage and the discipline to put the fucking phone down and start living your life proactively with a degree of intentionality, mindfulness, curiosity, and intentionality.

50:34Adam Skolnick:Well said. Because what that gets you is that feeling of self-confidence, that glow that you were talking about earlier, like where you can feel that presence of somebody when they come close to you. You have to earn it. You have to earn it, but it's - You could put lotion on your face and like wax your eyebrows and do whatever crazy shit these people are telling you to do. It's not gonna make you feel better. The only thing that is gonna give you that feeling of personal satisfaction is when you go and get out of your comfort zone, do something hard, achieve something, fail, make mistakes, learn, do it again.

51:10This is how you do it. You have to earn it. You have to put yourself in a situation that is a bit uncomfortable and see yourself through it. That's how you build a self-esteem. You build self-esteem by performing esteemable acts on behalf of yourself and on behalf of other people. And the attraction that you're seeking is not a superficial result of all of this bullshit you're being pitched. Attraction is the by-product of living a meaningful life. Figure out what's meaningful to you. what are your values? Write them down. What is meaningful? Pursue that. Work hard towards it. Put yourself in those uncomfortable situations where maybe you're going to fail or you're going to get rejected and invest yourself there.

51:57If you do that, you will become much more attractive than you ever will through this other nonsense.

52:04Adam Skolnick:It's not the glow up, it's the glow in. The way that mods are attracted to light, you have to glow inside. And if you glow in, then you become attractive. Then you're the attractor beam and people come to you and opportunities come to you. I will say that in my monologue about how it's never been easier to distinguish yourself because of the mass distraction that everybody's experiencing right now. At the same time, it is more difficult to go outside and make friends and be with friends and do things together and cultivate community because we don't really have the third spaces that we used to have.

52:49I mean, they're not completely gone, but if you're a young person, there isn't the youth centers and the YMCAs and the faith-based organizations and all the like that young people used to gather after school. So that is a challenge. I'm not recognizing that, but that doesn't mean that it's not possible. You just have to really, if you wanna commit to something, that is a worthy commitment to make.

53:17Adam Skolnick:There's a great parents article, like a Parents Magazine article about this, and it includes a couple of tips for parents. So I'm gonna just read off a couple of tips that were in there for people. Because so parents, if you have tweens and teens that you wanna monitor this stuff, The main thing is you gotta have some sort of

53:40Adam Skolnick:surveying control of the social apps. It's harder to do that because these kids know how to create fake accounts, but if you can somehow survey what they're getting on social media or elsewhere. That's really hard. I know it's hard. It's really hard. Like your kids are young. Like I'm just telling you, like they get to a certain age, like you're locked out, dude. It's really difficult to have that. And you also don't wanna be the parent where the kid is like, oh, my parents look at everything that I'm doing. Like you're just, you're breeding distrust there. And I don't know, I'm not saying I have the solution to this, but I think a lot of parents are gonna hear that and be like, yeah, that's not gonna work in my case.

54:18Adam Skolnick:Okay, so that one, this is coming from the article. So this is good. So the other one they recommend is - What article, where was this? Parents Magazine. The other one is called, they say, talk about it. and combined with an activity of some kind to bring it up, to create a strength board of like a whiteboard of what you're good at and kind of like talk about that with them openly, validate their experiences and fact check some of these ideas together. How much of that do you think could go? Or is that too much to ask? I think these two points of advice are in conflict with each other. if you're the parent who's monitoring their social media, then that's a cross purposes with the goal of open communication, because then they're like, they don't trust you.

55:09They're gonna keep, they're gonna have a Finsta account where the real shit's going on, and that's breeding like secrecy and lying and all the like. But that second piece of advice, I think is much more valuable, which is the goal is always to have the channel of communication wide open. And the only way to do that as a parent is to establish trust over a long period of time and create a non-judgmental environment where the young person feels safe talking about these things. Most young people, especially when the teen years kind of enter the picture, the last people they want to share this kind of stuff with is their parents.

55:50And part of that is healthy. It's healthy individuation. You want your child to like, you know, develop some independence and not be so reliant upon the parents. And these are like kind of embarrassing things to talk about. And, you know, there's very few people in that age bracket who are gonna just bring this up with their parents. Hey, like I'm thinking about like banging a hammer to my, you know, cheekbones. Like any kid who would be considering that is in a pretty lonely, desperate state who I would imagine is already like quite withdrawn. And that communication channel with the parents or whoever is the authority figure in their life is probably not awesome at that point already.

56:34But the underlying principle is correct, which is open communication. How do you get there? You gotta love your kids unconditionally and not judge them. So when they go and they make a mistake or they fuck up or they do something you told them they shouldn't or can't, you can't come down like a ton of bricks on them. You gotta be like, okay, let's figure it out. Like, why'd you feel like that was, you know, like, tell me what was going on. Like, try to understand, not judge. And I think over time you can create a more welcome mat for those types of conversations, but you also can't demand them or solicit them.

57:11Like the kid is in control of, you know, how much information they're gonna share and they decide when they're gonna open up. And sometimes you just gotta put the time in until finally they're like, they start telling you about something that happened at school and you have to make sure that you're really present and available for that conversation. And this is something I've learned from Lisa DeMoor, the parenting expert, the Ask Lisa podcast, part of our network and her whole thing, like if you wanna just take, have one takeaway from this, if you're a parent, the retort or the response to all of this is always just, you know, tell me more like, like, oh, tell me more, tell me more about that.

57:51Like, be curious, you know, be non-judgmental and just be like, oh, wow, really? Like, tell me about that. Like, how did that feel for you?

57:59Adam Skolnick:Except if they're in therapy, they're gonna recognize that therapy talk and your mom's gonna be - But there's a way of like, just being like, oh, really? Like, I mean, you can use different phraseology, but the spirit is like, you know, is just be interested, you know, not look to like make a declarative statement about right and wrong with everything here. It reminds me of that Netflix show, Adolescence, which is very much about the parents, you know, missing the signals and not being able to decode the vocabulary of young people. Like the teachers and the parents had no idea what was going on because there's a whole language happening, a whole like, you know, it wasn't looks maxing, but this is kind of like an example of like something that's going on that I would imagine, you know, a lot of parents of young people might have no idea that this is going on, which is one of the reasons why I wanted to do this podcast.

58:52Hopefully some young males watch or listen to this, but hopefully a lot of parents who have young male children, adolescents, teenagers, or the like, the idea behind this is to, you know, kind of hopefully educate and clue in some parents out there who might have no idea that this is the kind of thing that's going on. And if you don't, you're not alone. Like the internet is a scary place. There's lots of weird shit going on. And this is a weird thing, but it's not just a small corner of the internet. Like there are millions of young men who are falling under the influence of this right now. So it's worthy of this conversation, I think.

59:35Adam Skolnick:I agree. It's great to talk about it. I just wanna urge people who are looking at themselves in the mirror, looking at themselves a certain way, your quirks, the things that you think are not ideal suboptimal or whatever it is. I mean, our quirks, that's, we're all a bunch of quirky, imperfect motherfuckers. And that's kind of the beauty of it. And, you know, that great phrase, perfection is the enemy of the good, is pretty apt for this. And it's like, the goal is to see the beauty in yourself, not to make yourself beautiful. If you're in high school right now, and you're watching or listening to this, and you're measuring - How'd you find us?

1:00:16Yeah, first of all, like how did you, if you're here, the algorithm did something that, you know, like pulled a magic trick. But I'm sure you've heard this before, but I'm just gonna say it again because it's fucking true. If you're looking around and you're like, I'm not the, you know, I'm not the quarterback. I'm not gonna be, you know, the king of the prom, or I don't look like these guys wearing letterman jackets or whatever it is, right? I'm telling you, you don't wanna be those people.

1:00:49Adam Skolnick:No, it's better not to be. I turned 60 this year, later this year, and I'm here promising you that the most interesting, the coolest, the most accomplished, the most attractive people that I have had the honor of meeting or hosting on this podcast. I've been doing this podcast for 13 years. We're almost at a thousand episodes. I've had some of the most insanely charismatic and compelling people on the planet sit across from me. Not one of these people was the quarterback on the football team or the prom king. They were all the misfits and the outcasts and the quirky weird nerds who had interests that nobody else kind of had.

1:01:39And they were left to their own devices and lost in their imagination to like gaze at their navels and wander around lonely, like reading poetry or listening to Fugazi or whatever it is. And these experiences become formative in kind of crafting the uniqueness that makes people not only special and accomplished in their own right, but beautiful. And that is the true standard of beauty should be inhabiting the fullness of who you are. It's self accepting of your unique like gifts that you have to share and standing tall on your own two feet. Even if you're not six foot four and just owning your place with like real self-esteem.

1:02:35Self-esteem that you earned out in the world by not apologizing for who you are or how you look, but instead having the gumption to plant your flag and be the freak that you are. Because I'm telling you, like later in life, all of these painful experiences that feel like they're never gonna end are just blips on the radar and data points that if you use them properly can become powerful tools, if not superpowers in helping you craft an identity that feels right to you and becomes a gift for the rest of us.

1:03:21Adam Skolnick:Very well said. The last thing I can contribute to this is if things were going so well at home, I wouldn't have been to 50 countries plus, you know, in six continents. I wouldn't have gone out looking and trying to find my place and find who I am and find happiness. And that external search then led to the internal search. And so things not being A plus in your head and heart and in school and at work, it could be just a catalyst to all of this that you're talking about. And so we have to keep that in perspective too. It's like a perspective shift in multiple ways. And I'd encourage you to do it rather than fall into the trap of supposed quick fixes or demonization of women and girls or yourself, even worse, demonization of yourself and who you are and how you look, because it's much more interesting to be interesting.

1:04:24Yeah. And the most interesting person is always the person who is most interested in other people in life, in what you're doing, you know what I mean? Like, so get interested in your own life and in the lives of other people and in the world. The search for meaning, that's innate to being human. We're all on a search for meaning. But what I'm telling you is, you're not gonna find the answer looking in the mirror. End of podcast.

1:05:00That's it for today. Thank you for listening. I truly hope you enjoyed the conversation. To learn more about today's guests, including links and resources related to everything discussed today, visit the episode page at richroll.com, where you can find the entire podcast archive, my books, Finding Ultra, Voicing Change, and The Plant Power Way. If you'd like to support the podcast, the easiest and most impactful thing you can do is to subscribe to the show on Apple Podcasts, on Spotify, and on YouTube, and leave a review and or comment. And sharing the show or your favorite episode with friends or on social media is of course awesome and very helpful.

1:05:40This show just wouldn't be possible without the help of our amazing sponsors who keep this podcast running wild and free. To check out all their amazing offers, head to richroll.com slash sponsors. And finally, for podcast updates, special offers on books and other subjects, please subscribe to our newsletter, which you can find on the footer of any page at richroll.com. Today's show was produced and engineered by Jason Camiolo. The video edition of the podcast was created by Blake Curtis and Morgan McRae with assistance from our creative director, Dan Drake. Content management by Shana Savoy, copywriting by Ben Pryor.

1:06:20And of course, our theme music was created all the way back in 2012 by Tyler Pyatt, Trapper Pyatt, and Harry Mathis. Appreciate the love, love the support. See you back here soon. Peace. Plants. Namaste.

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