Do The Work: NBA Superstar Chris Paul On Mastery, Mentorship, Leadership & Sustained Excellence

27:33That is the one thing I'm always just asking questions. Oh, that's a cool tradition. That's a cool tradition because like we just said, those are the things that you get a chance to see if they stand to tell the time. And I appreciate that with my parents. Yeah, I mean, you took your kids back to North Carolina to what used to be the filling station. I mean, maybe just tell people who your grandfather was and why he's so important and why it was important to you to bring your kids back there and help them to understand who this person was. Yeah, so my grandfather, his name is Nathaniel Jones, Nathaniel Frederick Jones.

28:14He was one of 11 kids and actually happened to be the sixth child, the middle child. And he had the first black owned service station in North Carolina. and I always talk about it when you hear ownership now, I think you think of other people working, right? But for him, that meant that he worked every single day and getting a chance to take my kids back was so fulfilling. And the thing is, is my kids have been back and they go to North Carolina all the time, but there's a certain age that your kids finally get to where you talk to them differently, right? It's not like just, hey, we're at the service station.

28:58Try to remember this. My kids were at the age at that point in the book where they had heard about this service station, but they would remember what they were seeing. And it's like, we just talked about, you work so hard to make sure your kids have this or have that. and then what's crazy is you start to like raise them and you realize how much they need what you was trying to make better for them, if that makes sense. Yeah, and it's hard to reverse engineer it. You don't want your kids to have to endure difficult things and yet there are lessons in those challenges that are priceless, right?

29:45But is there a more graceful way to introduce those concepts and have them be meaningful to your kids without the kind of suffering aspect of it, right? Like, I don't know, you know, I guess you're running that experiment right now. Always running that experiment, always open to suggestions is just totally different. And not saying everything's different in a bad way. I grew up where I had to cut the grass, right? I had to cut the grass. we have turf, you know what I mean? Like we have turf for the house. So always just trying to figure out different ways to make sure it just understand the work, you know, like we joke about it now, me and my brother, about how my mom would be on our way home from work.

30:34And one of us had to wash the clothes and the other one had to fold the clothes, right? There was an anxiety about that, that we were like nervous and scared about. Like if my dad was on his way home and we hadn't cut the grass yet, we like, oh my God, oh my God. But that sort of teaches you about procrastinating, teaches you about consequences if different things don't happen and it's necessary.

31:07What was it about your grandfather that made him such an indelible figure in your life? I mean, obviously, first black owned service station in North Carolina, like successful. You talk about how he always had kind of a wad of cash and it was important for him to kind of be seen having that, giving it out, being of service to the community and being this, it seemed like he was very aware that he was serving as this example of success for the younger people in the community at large. You know what's funny about that Rich is that we knew he had that water money in his front pocket, but I don't think everybody else knew.

31:49I think we knew cause that was our Papa. You know what I mean? Like if we went up and wanted something, depending on what it was, some ice cream or something, we knew that or because we were, we was around him a lot more than other people, but I don't think people knowingly knew that he had that water money, but like we grew up as Mr. Jones grandkids, right? Like that's what everybody knew us as. So anytime we went somewhere or we was out in the city or whatnot, cause my grand you very rarely actually seen him in regular clothes. I'm trying to picture cause I got this video on my phone of my granddad from his 60th birthday party that we just found like a month ago.

32:33It's like a VHS tape. Wow. My dad, I'll tell you this real quick. My dad taped everything when we were kids, every game. When we would have like a family function, there would be a camera sitting at the family function just like that the whole time. So my dad, maybe like a month ago, he took a bunch of the VHS tapes and had them converted into DVDs, sent them out to Phoenix. I mean, when we finish, I'll show it to you on my phone. And so I'm watching. So the first DVD I put in is one of my high school games. And so I'm watching my high school game. That's cool. And so then I pop another one in and I see that it's like a party going on.

33:15And so I'm watching it and I'm like, man, what party is this? Cause we used to have events all the time. And so then I see my grandfather walk in and I got like chills and I'm watching it and I'm watching it. And then I actually pulled out my phone and started recording it. like whatever's happening. And my granddad comes in and then I see on the wall, it says like, cause everybody says surprise, right? It was my grandfather's 60th birthday, right? It was his 60th birthday. And I'm trying not to get emotional talking about it, but I took this video and I put it in my family group chat with my mom, my aunt, my wife, my brother, my two little cousins.

33:59and my mom called me like crying immediately. And then me and my wife had been together since I was 18. I didn't realize my wife has never heard my grandfather's voice. My kids had never heard my grandfather's voice. My mom says she hadn't heard his voice since he had died. And this is when it really like set into me like how crazy it was. So everybody's giving these speeches at his 60th birthday, mind you died when he was 61. My brother, so anytime you look at a video, old video, what you gonna look for? Probably gonna look for you. Yeah. Right? So I'm looking at the video and I'm looking, I'm like, dang, where am I?

34:43Where am I? I'm like, I probably brought Papa to surprise him because I always was with him. So I'm looking for me in the video. My brother starts giving a speech to my granddad. And during my granddad's speech, my brother says, and I know Chris would say this if he was here. So now I realize I'm not there. So I call my mom and I said, mom, mom, where was I? Where was I? And she said what month it was. And she said, you was probably at an AAU tournament, right? Playing travel basketball. And that's when it hit me. And at the time I was watching this video while I was in Arizona where I live without my wife and my kids for the last four years.

35:28And that's when it hit me that majority of my life, I've been missing things, you know? Like just constantly missing things and striving to be like the best player that you can be. And man, this ain't supposed to be this kind of podcast. It's all right, man. I mean, that's heavy, you know, that's real, but I think it's clear that you were a very important figure in his life as well. And you showed up for him and you meant a great deal to him. And he certainly understood that and knew that. And he was just - So you weren't there on that one day, but birthdays, whatever, like on the daily, you were there for that guy.

36:17Oh yeah, for sure. But it just started me realize, started making me realize how, I mean, I wasn't there on that day, but my kids have had so many things now at this point, because I am a professional athlete and I'm constantly traveling. And yes, I'm working to provide or whatnot, but it's still hard not being there for my kids. There's a cost to greatness. If you wanna be the best, like that's, you know, That is the truth, there are sacrifices and there is a dark underbelly. And I kind of appreciate you being honest about that because people like to talk about, here's what it takes and are you willing?

37:00And it's like, well, what's on the other side of that? And where do your other values come into play that get eroded for the sake of that pursuit? And I think it's important to really ask yourself, like, is that worth it? or is everything else properly in balance? And if not, like, how do you correct that? That's why, like, the first question I had for you is like, you know, when these things come into conflict, like the people-pleasing and the obligations that you have, like, you know, there's a lot going on in your life. It would be impossible for every bucket to be, you know, in absolute balance on every single day.

37:40And that's gotta be hard. And it must be, I would suspect that it's lonely because you can't really complain about that. Like who are you gonna talk to? I mean, you can call LeBron and talk to him about it, but there aren't very many people that you can have that conversation with. It's crazy to say that, because me, LeBron, Carmelo, and D-Wade, right, the banana boat crew or whatnot and the relationship that we had, it was sort of founded on that, right? I got all my homies that I grew up with. I got my brother who was my right hand man. I got my family, my wife and all that, but our relationship and our closeness was built off the fact that there were certain things that we only could talk about to each other.

38:27You know, there are certain experiences that only we could talk about to each other. I mean, when Bron was thinking about leaving Cleveland to go to Miami, he had his circle of friends that he was talking to, but when me and him talked, it was just always a different perspective because I play and I know what he sort of was going through and what he felt like. So you're exactly right. It's hard, it's hard. And you always sort of battle with this, am I being selfish? That's why I was asking you too, like what's the training like? Cause I mean, for me, even now I'm out of season and I'm back home, right?

39:05My family's here in LA while I'm in Phoenix. So then when the season's over, I'm right back. As soon as I got back that next morning, I was taking my kids to school, you know, and trying to be a present father as much as possible and then still training, right? Still trying to be the best athlete that you can be. Do you feel like whenever you're fully invested in one thing, whether it's training practice or showing up as a dad, that you're feeling like you're falling short or you should be doing the other thing that's not getting attended to, or are you able to kind of like switch those gears and find a way to just be like, listen, this is where my attention is now.

39:50I'm giving everything I have to this. It's not perfect, but I'm cool with that and I've made peace with that. Or do you haunt yourself with - I try to switch gears pretty well. Sometimes I haunt myself. Some days are better than others. There's sometimes where I am somewhere with my kids and it's like, put your phone down. And then there's some things that it's like, okay, I'm trying to figure out what team I'm going to. Like I can't at this time, you know? And it's a battle, you know? And I think that one of the biggest things that I try to do is to really talk to my kids, right? Like really talk to my kids and be like, what y 'all think?

40:27You know what I mean? Like, sometimes when I'm out with them, someone asks for a picture, I'll do it. Sometimes I'll be like, no, let me give, you know, sometimes I want my kids to hear, make sure they hear me telling someone else that it's all about them. Cause my kids are at an age where they're nobody's dummies. They understand any and everything that's going on. But I tell you that the really important person too is my wife, right? Is those conversations with her. And I mean, I'm going through a lot of stuff right now and you think about it, be very honest with you, the summer, especially the fact that I'm away from my family for all those months.

41:07During the summer, my wife's trying to plan vacation. Where are we going? Here, are we doing this? Are we doing that? And I literally called my wife the other day and was like, look, babe, I know we wanna travel. We wanna do this stuff, but understand that I want to do and experience all those things, but I gotta get to work, right? I gotta get to work. I gotta figure out where I'm gonna be. and I don't want that to hold my wife or my kids back from traveling or experiencing a vacation. Like these are real conversations like that. And I meant it, you know, I want to go here and go be there and do that, but it's so hard.

41:51And she was like, okay, I got it. And that's when somebody knows you. Like she knows that I want nothing more than to do these experiences with them. But the way that I'm programmed in, I gotta get to work. Yeah, well, you're in this, you know, unique flux situation right now. It's gonna get sorted out pretty soon, but right now has gotta be leaving you feeling like you're just not sure which way everything is gonna go. Yeah, and for me, I mean, I mean, I feel like I know every nuance of this league and how things work and all of this after 18 years experience. So, whatever situation it is, whatever team, I just always ask them to be upfront and honest with me and communicate with me as I do with them.

42:45Having been in the league so long, like how is it different now at 30, you're 38, right? 38. 38 versus 28. Obviously, you're aging up, and that means you gotta be paying more attention to your training, to your recovery, to your nutrition. How does longevity play into your daily equation about how you kind of approach your craft, and how has that changed or evolved? Like, you just can't get away with shit now that you used to be able to not think twice about, right? Right, but JJ Reddick talked about it on his podcast. Might've been one of the first times he ever did his podcast when I was with the Clippers with JJ.

43:34But it was like, I kind of got like a case of like OCD, right, and that, I don't know. Like if somebody say, this is the type of water that you should be drinking, right? Like you need to drink this water, then I won't drink any other type of water. I will figure out a way somehow, some way to make sure I have that with me every time I go somewhere. Right, so when it comes to. Has it always been that way though? I mean, it was Sprite for a while, right? Right, oh yeah. So it hasn't always been dialed in. Oh no, it wasn't always dialed in. I'll tell you, when I got to the Clippers in 2011 was the first time I'd ever been with a team that had a team chef and a nutritionist.

44:20I played six years in the NBA before I ever heard of a nutritionist. Yeah, John Sally talks about this all the time, man. He's been on the show a couple of times. Yeah, he's like, you wouldn't believe what people are eating and how there's just this insane lack of education. I mean, I'm sure it's different now, or I hope it is. And you would know, obviously. No, it's still. Really? Still, like John. So tell me about it. I talked to John yesterday. So never had a chef, team chef, never had a nutritionist until I got to the Clippers. I get to the Clippers, right? Going from New Orleans to LA. And the team nutritionist tells me about a leap test.

45:04You know what that is? I don't know. Food sensitivity test. Oh, okay. Never heard of this. She tells me that I'm gonna go give them my blood and they're gonna take my blood and they're gonna test it against 100 or something different ingredients and tell me what it means. So go get my blood, have to wait a few weeks. I get this sheet of paper back and it's got reds, yellows, and greens, right? So anything that was green meant that I can eat, right? Anything that was yellow or red, I had to cut from my diet. This is what I was being told. and it had different things on there. It said, this makes you more sleepy.

45:50This makes you more tired, all of this different type stuff. And what was crazy was at the time, like me, Blake and DJ, all of us had done it. And like, I think one year Blake said chicken, he couldn't have chicken. So we would get on the plane and like be pushing chicken over to him. Like, you sure you don't want this? But the very first time I ever did it, I had 27 reds and yellows, 27 reds and yellows. And when I came into the NBA, every pregame meal of mine, you know what it was? It was salmon, salmon, rice, and something green. I felt like that was healthy. That sounds on the healthy side of things.

46:27Yeah, absolutely. That's what I had before every game. When my results came back, it said something like, I think salmon was red on there. It had like hops was red. So that was it for Corona. That was it for all these different things. I was stressed out. I was like, what am I gonna eat? But you think this is what you gotta do to be really good. So you do that. Do you feel a difference? What else was off the table? Oh, I have to go on my email and check or not, but it was a lot of stuff that was off the table. That's the first time you ever thought about diet or making changes or trying to kind of follow directions.

47:07Yep, because when I was younger in New Orleans, I eat whatever, didn't matter, didn't matter, whatever. like there's a difference between a chef and a cook too. You know, so everything that I was eating back then, I mean, I drank sweet tea with every meal. I used to, dang, what else? Well, I was, Krispy Kreme donuts. I used to have little Debbie's oatmeal cream pies, you know, and my wife at the time she was doing the shopping and I used to, you know, Simply Lemonade? Yeah. Like the lemonade, oh, I could drink one of them by myself. It's just all sugar. None but sugar, but I didn't know. What you don't know, like you don't know.

47:46And so then fast track, I'm playing, you know, still don't really know much. I'm doing that leap test every year and it's changing a little bit. Some of the foods would change. I would get down to my first year in Houston when I did the test, I think I had three reds and yellows, right? So I guess what that mean that my body was sort of. Did you get better at it? Yeah. So boom, 2019 is when I executive produced Game Changers. How did that happen? How did that come about? So it came about through Ethan. Ethan Brown. Ethan Brown, right. So you already had a Beyond Meat like partnership before that.

48:30So this is the thing. I didn't have a partnership at the time. So Beth, my school is that worked with Beyond. Beth, we knew Beth from sports and basketball. So I was playing in Houston, Beth sent out some Beyond Meat for my chef to try. Mind you, I don't know this, I ain't really heard of it like that. So after one of the games, I come home and my chef makes Beyond Meat after a game, right, he tells us to eat it, his burgers and stuff. And I ate the food and I remember sitting there like, I was like, well, damn, I don't feel like heavy, right? Like, cause say what you want to, I played a long time in this league.

49:15I know what my body feel like, right? I know my body better than just about anything. So I didn't know, but so much about Beyond Meat at the time. Right? But then we tried it again, tried it again. So at that time, Ethan had asked me about games. So I saw early sort of clip of game changers or whatnot. And I was looking at it and was like, oh yeah, I would love to be a part of this. Man, I like seeing some of the athletes in it and I'm one of those people, I don't know like y 'all, but I'm very curious. I can't take somebody else's word for it. I gotta try it myself. So I went. So that was it, you saw like an early cut and you got interested in what that might be like for yourself and just took the leap?

50:06Yep. Just flick the switch? Yep, because I'm one of them weird people too that where like, I never forget, everybody in my house was about to watch, what was that? The like documentary, like scare you from eating meat, was it? What the Health, What the Health, right? So they started watching it one day in my house and I looked at the beginning of it, I said, oh, can't watch it, can't watch it. I walked away, I wouldn't watch it because I'm one of those people that if I see it, it's gonna make me, you know what I mean? and not necessarily eat stuff. So I did it, I went cold turkey or cold tofu.

50:40So interesting, I always thought, I didn't know that story, I always thought like you had gone plant-based and had experienced benefits and as a result of that, and then kind of talking about it, that's how you found your way to the movie. No, so Ethan was how I found my way to the movie. And I'm telling you, I was like, hold up, man, I'm seeing some of these athletes talk about it or not. And like I said, I had had 14 years of playing games and waking up and being sore, right? Aching. And I got to the point where sometimes I wouldn't like play with my kids, right? Like the day before a game, if my kids wanted to be out in the yard, like throwing baseball or running around playing, I'd be like, no, I gotta stay off my feet.

51:30I gotta stay off my feet. And so if not for Ethan and Beth and all them, I would have never, ever. That's interesting. So what was the experience like jumping in, going completely plant-based after having kind of no experience with that? Like, what did you, like, did you feel better? Did you see results? You wanna know like exactly how it went. So I just got back from family vacation. It was like a Sunday. And I remember I was telling my chef when I, cause it's during the summer too. So of course, everybody always says, it's a lot easier if you got a chef, but this is out of season. So I had a chef a few days, but here in LA, I just sort of had to figure it out.

52:17You get to know Veggie Grill really, really good. Especially when you don't know, like the foods that - Right, but you could just go to Veggie Grill and just eat, you know, French fries. Exactly. You can eat like shit there. Exactly. But like I said, you don't know. So the amount of foods that I eat now that I never used to eat is crazy. And I tell people who even think about going plant-based or doing certain things is that I'm what, four years in and I'm still learning. I'm still learning. So the education aspect is huge. and if we find a way to educate kids earlier, then look at what it would look like.

52:59So for me, what happened? Oh man, first of all, I remember sitting on the couch, like sitting there, like I felt like I was on drugs, like I was tripping, like sitting there like, oh man, what am I gonna do? What am I gonna do? Right? Because you're like, what am I gonna eat? But then my body, so this is what started happening. and I gotta believe everybody's story is different, but my nose started running. Like just, I would be chilling, sitting there chilling and my nose would just start running, right? Because I used to also like follow and listen to a lot of stuff that Dr. Sabu would say, right?

53:36And I used to hear him say the stuff about mucus and all this stuff, man, I was like, what's going on? And I used to get science, when I was a kid, I had, what was it, five sets of tubes in my ears, like sinus infections. And I used to get sick like clockwork, like twice a year during the season. And I used to make this sound, let me see, let me see. I used to do that like all day, which was like just mucus. Yeah. Man, it was like the mucus was leaving my body, right? And I know it sounds so dramatic or whatnot, but that's what I felt. Then I started going to the bathroom, obviously. a lot more regular.

54:19That changed like that. And then I was training. I just started back training, maybe three, four days in. I was like training hard to get ready for the season. I called my trainer and I was like, Donnie, I was like, are we not going that hard right now or something? Like, I'm not like aching. He was like, no, we're getting after it. I stopped having to put ice on my knees every single day. Inflammation down, recovery faster, no like impairment of your performance though, if anything. No, no. The opposite. In my gut, my gut is what really changed. So there would be games that I played over my career where I'd be like burping like crazy or drinking stuff during the game and just feeling bloated.

55:10You know, that changed for me. and I had a few health issues gut wise or whatnot that literally changed. So four years you've been doing this, you still feel good? Yeah. And you're still learning. You're not going to Veggie Girl every day. No, no, but - I hooked you up with Simon, right? He should be dialing you up pretty good. Man, listen, Simon was amazing because for me at this point now, it's about the margins, right? So thank you so much for putting me in contact with Simon who took a look at my blood work and was like, oh, look, you could definitely stand to add some iron. Right? And I don't know if this is a conversation for here, but we might as well have it.

55:58You can choose whether to use it or not. But when I grew up, I thought creatine was like, almost like a steroid, right? but it's not, correct? It's not a steroid, no. I mean, it's pretty effective in helping you build lean muscle mass, but you also end up retaining a lot of water. Water, right, right. I remember that's what he said. So, I was trying to do like five grams or something like that. But even when I heard creatine, it was like, huh? What, no, we can't take that. So, it's an education aspect to a lot of this stuff that you just don't know. And so what is the, like the meals look like these days?

56:43Oh, I eat a lot of mushrooms. I eat a lot of mushrooms, a lot of lentils. Yep, depends on what it is. I mean, I have like just egg. I think that was one of the big things was that you start finding out. So let me just tell you, we go on a road trip and you'll see like a spread of food for our team, right? for breakfast before we go to practice. And it's so funny because probably most teams don't have vegan options. But I've had a couple of teammates that like went plant-based. You say that right, plant-based options. The funniest thing to me is when I come into a hotel and I see the plant-based pancakes and regular pancakes.

57:30The easiest way to make me mad is to see the plant-based pancakes sitting over here and they purple, right? All right, because a lot of people don't know. Just make them the way that people like to eat them. It's not a huge leap to make it taste basically the same. Listen, the only thing that is missing is egg or butter or something like that, right? Like you cannot tell me that somebody can tell the difference between earth balance and regular butter. It's pretty close. Right, really close, really close. And so, I mean, I can have guys over my house all the time and they could eat a whole meal and would have no clue that it was plant-based.

58:11But at some point, you gotta figure out a way to start making it just food, right? Instead of every time saying, oh, this is the plant-based food. Yeah, and you don't feel like it's impinging your ability to perform or to stay strong in the gym and move quickly, agility, all that kind of stuff. Do you feel like it's helping you? Like you've been doing this for four years now. Now, obviously, I would assume that you're feeling like this is an advantage. Yeah, I definitely feel like it's an advantage. I feel like I'm always trying to just learn a little bit more. Just always just trying to make sure you're getting that protein intake, make sure you're getting all these different things, but it's just like anything else, you playing.

58:56You playing, when we go on a road trip, I plan out. And how does that work with your teammates? Are they giving you shit? or some of them on board? I've had a few teammates who have went completely plant-based. Mm-hmm. Jay Crowder, my first year when I was with the Suns, we were in the locker room and after the game, they all, all my teammates were sitting there with ice on their knees. And Jay was like, we call him nine nine. He was like, yo, see why you ain't never got ice on your knees like everybody else? I was like, I mean, I ice sometimes when I need to, but I don't need to. Next thing you know, during all-star break, he went plant-based, right?

59:35Yeah. Had a teammate of mine, Torrey Craig, who last year he used to be talking about like how much his knees hurt and aching and all that. He hit me last summer and told me he was going plant-based. And I think he shot the best percentage he shot in a while this season because he wasn't, he was back dunking again and doing all these different things. So yeah, to each his own or not, but I know I'm gonna do what I gotta do for me. It's working for you. Did you know John Sally before this or did you get to know him like after? I knew John, but I never knew like that John had been plant-based and stuff like that for a long time.

1:00:17And it's crazy because Lady Carmen Wilson that works with me, she used to work with the Heat when John played for Miami back in the day. Uh-huh, it's wild. Yeah, I find that there's a receptivity to this in the athlete that's kind of aging up or somebody who's dealt with a bunch of injuries and is looking for an advantage or just realizing they're in the twilight of their career and are kind of open to new ideas, anything that might extend their career a couple of years longer. And I think we're in a really interesting era right now in terms of athletic performance. I mean, Novak just won his 23rd Grand Slam.

1:01:02You know, Tom Brady win the Super Bowl, 43. Like 10 years ago, if you said that that, something like that could happen, nobody would have believed you. So it's really cool to see older athletes like pushing the boundaries and kind of eclipsing what everybody thought was possible. And then being kind of examples for a broader audience around the importance of wellness and the fact that like what you put in your body it actually does matter, right? Like, who would have thought? You know what? I tell people this all the time. My initial journey on this started out sports related, right? I wanted to be the best athlete that I could be.

1:01:38I don't - It wasn't purely altruistic? No, no. Come on. It was definitely not. Yeah. That's how it is for, we're self-interested creatures, you know? Listen, my previous coach, Monte Williams, who is just amazing in all the sayings, he always says, is he says that we want to be a team that's consistent. Right? So if we're playing against another team, he always says, you just want to constantly be like this against them. Right? The whole game. Cause he says at some point, they're just not gonna be able to handle that. Right? Like somebody is just at some point gonna be like, man, stop. Right? So when I talk about like feeling well and food and all this stuff, cause people be like, man, what you mean?

1:02:21You don't want no chicken sandwich? You really ain't gonna eat no steak? That's what people say to me. And so for me, I had 14 years of experience of waking up after some of those hard fought games and like just being sluggish and aching and stuff. And so for me, it's like, if I know I can make something stop, right? Then I'm gonna do what I gotta do. You know what I mean? Regardless of how hard it is or whatnot, it's been cool. but like I said, it started out sports related. And then I started finding out all the other health benefits. And I wanted to start sharing it with my family because I grew up in the South, right?

1:03:01Where everything is fried. Like I grew up eating chitlins, fat back, sweet tea, everything and still when I go home, no one talks about this stuff when they go home. So it was stressful for me at first to go home and look at my grandmother and tell her that I wasn't gonna eat all this good food that she just cooked, right? They looking at me like, who are you? Right, or you're rejecting them. I mean, that's, you know, it's all tied up in love and that makes it very tricky. Exactly, and the thing is, is that... It's the education aspect of it, which we're missing. and I try to make sure that I get into these different communities, inner cities, whatever it may be, because we also grow up with a lot of our family with all these different diseases, right?

1:03:52These different diseases, John Lewis, who we worked on a movie together called, they're trying to kill us, right? And it was just talking about like where a lot of the education needs to be taking place because I grew up with family members with gout, right? Everybody got high blood pressure. I don't know if you've seen the thing where I was talking to my dad, my dad, all of his brothers and sisters take blood pressure medicine. You know, and a lot of that is, this is me talking. I'm, like I said, I'm still learning, but everyone always says that this different disease is hereditary and this is passed down.

1:04:34Well, I think part of it is, but some of it is recipes that's passed down. Yeah. Yeah, right, from generation to generation. And unless someone's educated on it, it's just gonna continue. It's one thing to kind of adopt a certain way of eating like you have and just say, this is working for me, this is cool. And it's another thing altogether to say, you know what? Like there's something really powerful here and I wanna use this privilege that I have in this platform to talk about it and perhaps change habits, make a real social impact as a result of this voice that I have. And John Lewis is my boy, like I love that guy.

1:05:10And we were all kind of involved in the edit of they're trying to kill us. So yeah, very familiar with the movie. And I think that's the kind of movie that's needed more than any of the other movies because the people who are suffering the most and could benefit the most from just a little bit of education and access are the ones that aren't getting it, right? It is the underprivileged communities, the food deserts, these areas that are kind of entrenched in a cycle of poverty and disease and the disease a result of lifestyle habits and diet that's so unnecessary and easily rectified. And I think the fact that you lent your voice to that movie and so many other really interesting performers and entertainers and athletes, et cetera, to time out, to basically contribute to that as well was a really powerful thing.

1:06:03I wish more people had seen that movie. Yeah, that's a whole other podcast story. But yeah, I mean, I think what I take from that is this idea that you're aware of your position in life, right? And that that comes with a certain level of responsibility. And there's an intentionality that you have about, okay, how am I leveraging this position that I'm in? Or how am I using my voice to, you know, basically make the world a little bit of a better place? And from my not knowing you and like just kind of observing, you know, how you've done that, it seems pretty clear to me that there's a lot of thought that goes into that.

1:06:44You know what else too? And I'd be lying if I didn't say it. There's a selfish aspect that comes from it too. And I'll say this because I love like my people and the people around me, you know? So sometimes I might put something in a group chat and somebody might not like it or not, but just think about life, right? Like life and I want not only myself, but the people around me to be around me as long as possible. And if you can help them in one little way, just maybe add a little bit more longevity to their life or be able to wake up without a sickness or without aches and pains, you know, then there's not one person I think that I probably met who has tried at least plant-based for a little while and not seen a change or not, because we be in our habits and routines for so long and for so many years, there's so many people who'll be like, no, I'm just made this way.

1:07:43Oh yeah, I always just sort of like break out like this or such and such, I do this. But the one thing that we all have in common as people is what we eat, what we take in. Yeah, but it's also a broader observation and conversation around habits and change and how do we change and a belief in our ability to like grow and evolve, right? If you're just like, well, this is who I am and this is how I do it and this is the way it's always been, you're in kind of a regressive mind state as opposed to I'm the person who's trying new things, who understands the value of, you know, putting myself in uncomfortable situations, experimenting, et cetera.

1:08:27That's how you grow and you have a belief and a lifetime of experience practicing that, but a lot of people don't. I need to take you with me to a few people and let you tell them that. All right. I don't think they're gonna hear it the same from me. I'll follow you, where do you wanna go? But no, that's real and it's so much I don't know, which is why, like I said, I was talking to Jess, I was talking to Jess and I was like, Jess, we've been doing this now. I've been plant-based now for like four years and this was last summer. And I was like, there's gotta be an expert. I was like, I'm out here just sort of winging it, right?

1:09:07Figuring it out on my own. In a city of 20 million people, there's gotta be somebody who lives in LA that knows something about something to help you. It's gotta be somebody because like I said, like it's the margins, right? Like if somebody can be like, hey, have you tried this? Have you tried this? this may get a little bit more energy here. Oh, if you tried this. And so I was so grateful when she sent your info and I started watching things and I was like, oh, this is what I need. This is what I need. And so that sense of community and just your willingness to even put us in contact with Simon has been amazing.

1:09:47Yeah, it's cool. And for people that are listening, we're talking about Simon Hill, friend of the podcast. And you should listen to his podcast if you're not on that, because he's going deep. He goes real, yeah, yeah.

1:10:07So beyond the plant-based thing, like what are some of the other like longevity enhancing, you know, career extending sort of things that you practice now that maybe you didn't used to like? I do the cold tubs. You do? I have a cold tub at my house. You got the plunge. Are you on the Jesse plunge sauna situation? Yeah, Jesse is OD with it, but I got an infrared sauna. So at my house, right outside my bedroom in Phoenix is a cold plunge. Right. So I'll get in sometimes right when I get in the morning. Sometimes I do it right when I get up in the morning. A lot of times I do it later in the afternoon or whatnot.

1:10:48I get in three minutes, five minutes. I'll do the infrared sauna. I actually just got a cold plunge here at my house in LA, probably like a week and a half ago. Cause my son, we finished working out the other night. He was like, dad, can I get in the plunge? I was like, absolutely, absolutely. Yeah. Do you do the plunge and the sauna together or you do those things separately? Depends on what day it is. Sometimes I'll do them together. Uh-huh. Yep. And after the plunge, do you get in the, there's that idea that like, Like you should never do the sauna after the plunge. You wanna end on the cold.

1:11:23End on the cold. Yeah, do you do that or no? So it's funny, like if I'm going to bed, you know what I mean? A lot of times I do the sauna before bed. It's sort of helped me sleep a little better or whatnot. At least my aura ring says it. I know, so I was thinking, I was like, that's an aura, right? Yeah, yeah. Cause that sleep stuff is so important and that's the hardest thing for me to do. Get a good night's sleep? Yep. Wow, you'd think when you're training like that, that that shouldn't be an issue. Hardest thing for me to do is sleep. Cause your mind is going nuts? What is it about? I got a few reasons.

1:11:57I think one of them is, like I said, I do live in Phoenix by myself. So maybe it's this subconscious of like the worry of my family, you know, my wife and my kids. The other is just sort of the time schedule that we're on. And I tell you, so the way it works is I'll play a game let's say I play a game in LA, and then the game might start at 7.30. Game gets over 10.30, 11, whatnot, and we get on the bus, drive to the airport, go to LAX. Say we got a back-to-back plan in Utah the next night. Our plane might not take off from LAX, depending on what's going on, the weather, or how the bags, or if a guy's late to the plane, we might not take off till midnight, right?

1:12:47Say we don't get into Utah to the hotel till 2, 2.30 a.m. Now our game is at 7 p.m. We're all jacked up. Boom, so now I just played this game. I'm wired, I'm up. Yeah, you can't just shut that off and go to sleep. And then guess what? Usually we'll have team meeting at 11, 10 or 11 a.m. We might not have been to bed till four, four or five o 'clock. Right. You know, so it's this complete cycle. And that's not in isolation, that's on the heels of weeks and weeks of that. Exactly, exactly. So I'm not complaining by no means, but sleep, like that's when you really recover. So how do you, how, obviously the aura gives you the stages and your HRV and all that kind of stuff.

1:13:35But like other than like cold plunge and sauna, what are some other sleep hygiene things that have been beneficial? Man. Yeah. Do you do like the neural beats and the face mask and that kind of stuff? No, I ain't at that point. Not eating too late at night. Yeah, yeah, I try not to eat too late at night. I'm bad about that. Yeah, I know. But that also too, just like for weight management and all that stuff too, is try not to eat too late. I don't know, it's bad. Can you nap? Are you a napper? Yes, I can do that. I can definitely do that. All my friends and my family, they say I'm narcoleptic because I will fall asleep with the quickness.

1:14:20As soon as I get home from practice, usually I'll sit down on the couch. That's good. I'm not like a go lay in the bed and I'm gonna take a nap, right? Yeah. It usually just happens. I'll get home from practice and maybe I'm getting my body work, my tissue work and just fall asleep there. So I'm definitely a napper. What does the body work look like? Like what kind of programs are you on with that? That's constant. Active release or cupping? Like what are you doing? A lot of times it's active release. Not a lot of cupping. I have Ann, Shelly, they're different. Ann actually like uses her feet.

1:15:01You know what I mean? Like she sits in a chair and sort of like mashes or whatnot. And then she'll like get her hands in my calf muscles and feet and all that stuff. Shelly's more you're on the table and working on you. And then we got team people who work on us sometimes too, but that's a everyday thing just about. Anything else that you've like learned that you think is like giving you an advantage that you think other athletes or particularly like athletes who are starting to age up a little bit. I lift a lot. You do, yeah. I lift a lot. During the season, like how does that work when you are traveling so much and it's just about game, game, game.

1:15:38Lift, lift, lift. The older I've gotten, the more I realize I need to lift. Day of games? Yes. Really? Yes, day of game, lift. So think about this, right? And someone said this to me a while ago, our season is so long. So if you think that you're just gonna lift heavy during the summer. And then just cruise for nine months. You can't do that. You can't do that. And so for me - But you wanna be on point for the game too. you don't wanna be fatigued. Yeah, like if you do it enough over and over and over again, like not gonna be fatigued, but I lift. It's like maintenance lifting. Exactly, exactly.

1:16:17Like if we got two days between games, maybe it's a little heavier, like depending on what my output was in that game, but I'm not shooting basketball, I'm not playing a game without lifting. What do you wish you knew when you were in your early years, rookie years that you know now? I always say the one thing I wish I could change in my career, right? It's not a win or a loss. It was when I tore my meniscus back in 2009, 2010, is that I would have took my rehab more serious. I was so young, tore my meniscus, had surgery, did rehab, sort of whatever, but I was so young. I was like, I'm gonna be right back.

1:17:01You just rushed it too much to get back? Well, what happened too was towards the end of the season, I came off a ball screen and I knocked knees with a guy. And so back in the old NBA, no offense to the old NBA, but everything was just ice and stem, right? Everything, anytime you got hurt, they would just put some stem on it and put a little ice on there and see what happens. So I remember I knocked knees and it was the same knee I had meniscus surgery on. So after I knocked knees, our team trainer, we had like four games left in the season. They was like, we shut you down for the season. He was like, don't do nothing.

1:17:38He was like, don't do nothing for like the next week or two or whatnot, just stay off of it. As a young kid that don't know nothing about nothing, if you tell me to stay off of it, what I'm gonna do? I'm gonna stay off. I'm not gonna train, I'm not gonna do nothing. Season ended and then I had to do a Jordan commercial. I had to do a shoe commercial at the arena. And I remember showing up for the commercial. And when they got ready to tell me like to do something basketball wise, I couldn't move. I couldn't move. And I looked down at my leg and my left leg was so much smaller than my right leg.

1:18:18It had atrophied, right? Cause like, I didn't know, like I was fine walking up and down steps, but I ended up having to go to DC the entire summer and rehab and over again. And it's like, like the training aspect of it is what I wish I knew earlier, right? Like the little nuances of lifting the right way and the training like that, that is what I wish I knew. All the off court protocols, maintenance strength, functional strength. Well, it's one thing knowing it, but it's one thing doing it the right way, right? Like I could show you how to do a squat, but you might be using all quads, right? Your hamstrings might be shut off.

1:19:03You might not be using your glutes. You might, you know what I'm saying? So like it goes back to, like I said, the details. How has the league kind of changed or maybe it hasn't changed in terms of how it thinks about, you know, the wellness of the players long-term, you know, you mentioned like, oh, the Clippers had a nutritionist. Like do all the teams have that now? Are they paying more attention to that kind of stuff? Yeah, so when I played in Houston for the Rockets, we had a chef, right? It was one guy who was amazing, but everybody coming in there, like no offense to him because it was just him, right?

1:19:43So if you order something on Monday or whatnot, when you came in on Tuesday, if you wanted something different, he had probably already had what you had on Monday made, ready to give to you. You know what I'm saying? Which is tough on him. And it's amazing to see how these teams and organizations have changed now that like in Phoenix, we got like five, six chefs, maybe more. Like there's a whole kitchen. That's cool. I remember when I went and seen the Hawks practice facility years ago, they got a whole training table. There's so much. and it's important. I think teams started realizing like, it's so important that these guys are getting, right?

1:20:25Because when you're at this level of training, not just what you're putting into your body, but the timing of it, right? So like right after practice, you got a window of when you need to get these nutrients and all that stuff into your body, so. Yeah, that's great to hear, but also it's still on you to shoulder the responsibility for going that extra mile. And I'm thinking about like all the stories you hear about LeBron and how he devotes a not insignificant portion of his salary to taking care of his body and the people that he surrounds himself with to like really make sure that he's operating at his best.

1:21:04And I'm curious whether you've learned from him and kind of how he's pushed the envelope and where he's willing to go with all that kind of stuff and whether you started doing some of those things. I do the same, you know what I mean? With all the chefs, my team, you know what I mean? Which is a pretty significant team and it is a pretty penny, you know what I mean? That you spend on it, but it's invaluable. I mean, your body is your, I mean, your valuation is how you're performing on the court, right? Like, so everything stems from that. And if you're not prioritizing that and making that first, everything else kind of falls away, right?

1:21:43My book tour that's coming up that I start in New York. Like of course my - Starting right here right now, buddy. We're doing it. Hell yeah, oh yeah. Well, when I say like that I'm home right now. I'm in LA. I got you. So when I go to New York, right? So when I travel, of course my wife, my brother, Carmen, everyone that works with me, Jess will be there. But guess what? My basketball trainer gonna be there. I'm gonna have somebody with me lifting and I'm gonna have a masseuse, a body work person with me who will travel with me. So if I gotta be at a podcast or something at eight, we'll probably start at five, right?

1:22:21Cause all of that is necessary. Yeah, you gotta work that in, you gotta plan ahead, you gotta prioritize all that kind of stuff. Yeah, that's for real, man. That's legit. That's what being a professional is. Oh, 1000%. So like as soon as we finish, I get to my phone, probably called my wife first, but then C was for lunch. Yeah. I wanna talk about leadership for a little bit. You've held leadership positions, players association, all the like. And this is something else that it appears you've learned quite a bit from, from your grandfather, other mentors that you've had. How do you think about like, what are the things that make for a great leader?

1:23:03And how do you try to kind of show up in your various responsibilities to lead in your own way? I think the number one thing is communication. Communication. So in different situations, some people will be like, man, always talking, always talking. I always say this, would you rather someone tell you how they feel about you? Or would you have to wonder how they feel and somebody be talking about you behind your back? Right? Like that's the thing. When it comes to basketball or whatnot, Like if we out there on the court and we're playing, do I need to guess if you want the ball in a spot? All right, because if we on teams, I think that's the big part is communicating.

1:23:49Leadership is also understanding when you gotta delegate. And if I be perfectly honest with you, is that people don't understand this part when it comes to leadership is that sometimes, it's gonna sound crazy, but it's the truth. sometimes you gotta ask people for their input, even if you really don't want it. If that makes sense. Not saying like ask them, but not like wanna hear it. Like say you're making a decision. Well, leadership is about consensus building and getting a group to kind of all get behind one certain idea. And you can't do that from a pure position of dictatorship. No, exactly.

1:24:31And so what I'm saying is even if you're trying to decide between A and B, right? Or say you're trying to decide between A, B and C. This is just being really honest. Say you already got your heart set on that you're gonna do A, right? You still need to go ask because people feel totally different when they feel like that they've had some input on what's taking place, right? Now, when you go ask these people, they may also agree with you that it's A, and a few of them might say B, a few of them might say C and a few might say A, but if you can learn to at least collaborate, let people feel like they are a part of the decision being made, that if they do feel like they are part of it, sometimes good, bad, or indifferent, they will embrace it totally different, right?

1:25:23And really, really go for it. Who taught you that? Experience. Yeah, but basketball coaches probably don't operate that way. No, not always, but. It's a different kind of leadership. But the good coaches do. What's the difference between a good coach and a not so good coach? Sometimes it's luck. And then sometimes is, I mean, if you're coaching an elite player, right? An elite player, then not saying the player isn't coachable or whatnot, but at least sometimes there should at least be, and it don't even have to be an elite player, just guys on your team. Sometimes you should just ask them how they feel about a coverage, right?

1:26:07You talk about like people being invested, right? Like say you got a company, say you start this new co, this new company over here or whatnot, and you're hiring people. Those people that you initially hired to begin that new co, if you give them more than just a salary and maybe some percentage of the company, how do you think they gonna work in order to try to build that company? Well, if they have a stake, they have an equity stake and ownership stake, obviously they're gonna be more invested in success. Exactly. And so I remember when I played for the Clippers and I pay attention to stuff.

1:26:37I remember when doc Rivers got the job, he made sure that, cause everybody used to always try to say, it was like me and Blake, me and Blake. Doc made sure that when he came there, it was me, Blake and DJ, right? And what he did was we were out in Vegas for like training camp. and there was three vans, right? We were staying at a hotel, but practice would be at UNLV. He gave me a pair of keys, Blake a pair of keys and DJ a pair of keys, right? Because before Doc got there, it was Chris and Blake, Chris and Blake. He wanted to give DJ some ownership, right? And he gave DJ, he said, DJ, you're in charge of the defense, right?

1:27:18You are in charge of the defense. So that was an ownership and responsibility. Yeah, that's cool. Do you think about future ownership for yourself? Absolutely. Yeah, what would that look like for you? Man. In the best case scenario? Cause people always talk to me about coaching, right? And I coach my AAU program, like the young kids, cause they actually listen. I don't think NBA players gonna listen too much. So that's why I love coaching my AAU kids. I'll own the team. I don't wanna coach these guys. They're not coachable. Yeah, yeah, sometimes we don't listen as well. But also it's not just that, it's because I've had such an opportunity to learn just about every nuance of what it takes in a team, right?

1:28:06Through CBA negotiations, through playing for this long, to having conversations with, I mean. Well, everything that happened in the bubble, right? Like put you like in a really challenging situation where you had to show up in a way that probably made you really had to stretch, right? No, no question. And even through, like I said, some of those CBA negotiations, like I got to know Wes Eden really well, right? Wes is the governor of the Milwaukee Bucks. Stan Kroenke, right? Stan is amazing. I used to sit next to Stan in those negotiations. How many teams does he own? Yeah, right, right. Stan and his son, Josh, two just genuine incredible people.

1:28:51You know, they got the hockey team, they got the Arsenal, they have the Rams, they got the Nuggets, but just genuine guys. And a lot of these people I've gotten to know, I got to know Michael Rubin. I know Balmer from, I know Ishby, and all these different governors around the league that I've gotten to know. And not saying all of them, but sometimes I talk to some of them, just give them advice, right? On just how to approach us as players and treat us like human beings, you know what I'm saying? Not saying that they don't, but not just as the product going on the court, like talk to us about the business of the game, right?

1:29:32Like, hey guys, this is why we need to make the playoffs or whatnot, because this, this, and this, right? These patches that we put on our jerseys now, you see them? That's on our game jerseys, I think now, and on our practice uniforms. how much is that company paying to be on our Jersey? So having these real conversations are important and that's why I wanna be part of on a team. I can see it, man. I can see it in your future. I mean, I think you handled everything during the pandemic and the bubble situation with a lot of grace and dignity and that had to have been really hard. but you were able to get Barack on the phone.

1:30:17Come on, man. Man. You got that guy in your contacts. Man, he's been unbelievable. I tell you, there's been situations that happen. And when you talk about somebody who's in a thankless job or something like that, who, I'm trying to think when that locker room situation happened that time when I was in Houston, we was playing against the Clippers. I talked to President Obama after that and a number of times in different situations. And he just always been like, you gotta stay above the fray, right? And so when somebody like that tells you that, then. Yeah, you're gonna listen. Every time. Yeah, very valuable advice, especially in these times where everybody's got a hot take and everything that comes out of your mouth is gonna create a new cycle and there's a million podcasts and all of that.

1:31:23There's just a lot of noise out there, right? And there's a lot of misstatements of facts that probably get you agitated and make you feel like you gotta jump in and correct the record all the time. Listen, let me tell you about how you just said exactly, because I'm home with my family and things like this a lot of times where the tough thing with certain podcasts and all this stuff now, where everybody's trying to get that hot take is that. That's what the algorithm, that's how they're gonna get attention. Exactly. You get on and you just say what everybody already agrees with, no one cares.

1:31:56Exactly. So, the incentives are all fucked up. And it's so crazy because now it makes it even hard to have real interactions with people or something like that. And cause you like, man, we talk about this, you gonna be on the podcast talking about it tomorrow. And so it's crazy how things work because like you said, I'm just not the person who's gonna run in and say, man, that's not how this happened. That's not how it happened. Cause a lot of times you're actually doing something, you're doing the work. Sure. But you also don't wanna be the guy who can't fall asleep at night because you're in your mind, you're pissed off about something you've read about yourself that wasn't right.

1:32:33And you feel neutered, you know, cause you wanna correct the record, but you know, it's not the right thing to do. Like that shit will drive you crazy, right? Like how do you turn that off? That's so crazy you say that because I keep telling my family, I'm at this point now where I'm like, because people at some point start taking your kindness for weakness, right? So, I mean, on a period I said a few things here and there, but it's a lot of things. What's gonna get clipped. Yeah, there was some articles written about that, what you said on that podcast. Was it? A couple, I think you talked about leaving New Orleans for the first time.

1:33:08Oh yeah. Yeah. See, I just went so long without saying anything, but just like anybody, I'm human like anybody at a certain point, you're like, okay, man, enough is enough, all right? And for me, I've been in so many situations where people really don't have a clue of how a particular situation went down. And I just always be like, all right, all right. And so I try to be cool as much as possible and I pick and choose when I'm a... Make your move. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, call Barack first, run it by him. We talked about your kids, they play sports and you're super active in youth sports.

1:33:52You've got your own AAU team. And I'm interested in kind of like your philosophy around youth sports. I mean, you're somebody who you're a grinder, you're a hard worker, your dad used to tape up your strong arm and make you dribble with your weak arm, like work your weaknesses, all of that. Like maybe not a taskmaster, but you were no stranger to like the grind. How do you think about the best way for young people to kind of engage with sports so that they fall in love with it while also learning how to become performers? Like I'm just thinking about, I had Malcolm Gladwell on the podcast and we had a long conversation about this.

1:34:30And his argument was that we kind of have it upside down. Like the real focus should be on getting young people to just fall in love with sports and movement so that they're setting themselves up for a lifetime because only 0.001 of these kids are gonna ever end up making a career out of it. But when they're 40, if they're still really enjoying basketball, running, whatever it is, tennis, et cetera, they're gonna be healthier and happier. So you as somebody who's put a lot of time and energy and thought and parenting into this, like how do you see that? Well, I think that's the goal. The goal is to, I know for me with my kids and through our AAU program, because we know that every kid is not gonna make it to the NBA.

1:35:17You know, what we do have is everyone, every kid that's came through our AAU program has gotten a scholarship, has gotten a full scholarship to go to college. Now we have 12 kids. That's a solid stat. Oh man, it's unbelievable. Every kid who's gone through your program has gotten a college scholarship? Yep, every last round. That's impressive, man. Because we have a standard obviously. And my parents, my mom books every flight hotel, right? For all my AU kids. And my dad, all the coaches are guys that, for the most part are guys that I grew up with or whatnot. but the goal is to give them an opportunity, right?

1:35:58Because when you play AAU sports, there's a commitment there. You got practice, you got certain weekends that you have to commit to a team. Now with my kids, my parents only let me and my brother play two sports growing up. We played one year of three sports. I played T-ball, I played basketball and I played football. After that year, my parents said, it's too expensive and too much time. We can't get you to everything. They made us choose to. And my kids, right? My daughter this past year, thank God for her. She did everything. I remember I got out of practice one day and my wife was like, Cam has a volleyball game today.

1:36:41I was like, when did she get on a volleyball team? I've never seen her with a volleyball in her hand ever in my life. So my daughter, she plays soccer. She plays basketball. She plays softball and she played volleyball. My son just plays basketball. I hate it. He knows I hate it. He played soccer for a little bit, didn't he? He did for a little bit, but then he stopped. And now he just wants to play basketball. Now I tell them this, and this is what sport has done for me. Sport has taught me everything in life. Taught me everything in life. It's taught me about sacrifice. It's taught me about hard work.

1:37:17It's taught me about pain, right? Like heartache, all these different things, sport has taught me. And that's the thing with my kids is that I want them to, like he said, if they fall in love with it, like you really care about something. When I wake up in the morning and I know I'm hooping or it's a game day, there's a love about that. I've never woken up like, I mean, I have bad days just like anybody else, but genuinely loving something, right, like I do like the game of basketball, I think everybody should have that. You can't will that in another person, that has to come from within that person themselves, right?

1:38:02Yep. Yep. Does your boy have that for basketball? My son, you know what, he loves it and it's crazy because he'll watch clips of it. As soon as he get up in the morning, and he come to YouTube and he watching clips of other people playing all the time, all the time. Now the question is, what kind of love do you have for it? Like you might just love to watch it and that's fine too, but he plays. And so as a parent, you just wanna know that they're going their hardest, right? Or given their best and knowing that if they want something that they're really putting that effort in. And that's what, I don't know if you've seen that quote in the book where I was talking about my coach when I was in Houston, where he told me that he said, the hardest thing for me is gonna be playing with people who don't care as much as I do.

1:38:59And so that is still in all ways will be the struggle. Another struggle is putting yourself in your son's shoes and realizing like the chance that he could ever, fulfill the big shoes that you've created is basically an impossibility. Like it's gonna be, so how do you raise him in a healthy way around expectations and parent in a way where he doesn't feel that burden, and can fall in love with basketball on his own terms? You know, I make sure I have these conversations too with him, like I - Cause everywhere he goes, he's in your shadow. So what does that do to, you know, a young person? No question.

1:39:49And so these are the conversations that we have, like just being open about it, right? Because he's my namesake too, right? And so I've told him, I don't know how many times I could care less if he plays basketball. Like I was so happy when he played baseball, when he played soccer, but also your name, who you are, your life, you can't change that, right? You're here, like you're in it, right? Even though it's gonna be tough, no one is gonna feel sorry for you. I am sorry, like no one is gonna feel sorry for you. Most of the times when you walk in any room, when someone sees you or when someone hears your name, they're gonna judge you immediately.

1:40:36They're gonna say that you're privileged, you're this, you're that. It's gonna be up to you to not care or to change that. And one way that you can do that is by the hard work or do the work. Like if I walk into somewhere and someone asked me, you need anything? And I'd be like, yeah, I need y 'all to order me some food. I need a drink. I need a cocktail. I need a such and such. Somebody gonna be like, damn, I was expecting him to be maybe like that. which you can't control what other people gonna think about you. And I have this conversation all the time with him and my daughter. You don't get to pick and choose when your privilege suits you, right?

1:41:19Because when he comes to an NBA game, he gets to go back in the locker room. You get to go this, you get to go do that. that now when people are looking at you or saying this and that about this, like you don't really get a chance to pick and choose when the privilege shoots you. Right, you get one, you get the other. Yeah, you still bring them to practice? Yes, yes, all the time. So explain the philosophy behind that because I think that's interesting. Yeah, so it's funny, Monte Williams, who's now the Detroit Pistons coach, He was my coach the past three years and is more of my family than my coach because he coached me back in New Orleans, my sixth year in the league, which was his first head coaching job.

1:42:09When I got to Phoenix, I asked coach, I was like, coach, do you ever bring Elijah to practice or Micah? Those is two boys. And Elijah is one of the top players in the country now. He was top five rising sophomores in the country. And at the time coach was like, no, try not to, you know, bring them to practice. And Sam Presti, when I play in OKC, you couldn't bring family to the practice facility. And Sam is a great guy, but I told him that's bullshit. We should, I'm away from my family so much. But the reason why I think it's important to bring your kids to the gym, to see the work is because their advantage is not their last name.

1:42:54Like I said, that's their disadvantage, right? Like I said, when they walk in, someone's gonna judge them. So if my kids are always walking into school saying, yeah, yeah, my dad playing the NBA, my dad, well, what does your dad do? I don't know, he just playing the NBA. You know, like I want my kids to see that I'm at the gym, practice at 11. I want them to see that I'm there at eight. I want them to see what practice looked like. It's a hard grind because when dad can't be at such and such, dad ain't just hanging out. Yeah, no, having that real healthy appreciation for the actual work part of it, the hard work ethic, and that like reflex to move towards the challenging workout, not run away from it.

1:43:40It's like your family. You said your family helped you with your races, right? Sure. So the fact that your family got a chance to see, like if dad isn't here early in the morning, when I wake up, dad is not just somewhere hanging out. You know what I mean? Like he's doing this because of this. Yeah. And you think they're getting it? I hope so. Is it working? I mean, you just never know. I mean, I'll say this about the book. There was sometimes things that happened with my parents or with my granddad or whatnot that I didn't appreciate till I was older, right? I didn't really appreciate my parents enough until I had kids of my own.

1:44:22That's the way it works. Exactly. What is it that you want people to get out of the book? Oh man, I think one of the biggest things, I want people to understand the importance and the values of like relationships, real relationships and how important they are And I hope in the book you can get a sense of me and who I am, but also more so about my grandfather, just about who he was as a man and how, when you lose somebody, even though you lose them in the flesh, right? They don't ever actually leave you. And even though it was 20 years ago that this happened, there's a lot of emotions or whatnot that I had never talked about that I experienced through writing this book.

1:45:10but just know that you never get over it. It's never like a week, a month or a year and that's okay. You know, and I have pockets now where I'll be on the bus headed to a game and I'll listen to that song, My Soul Has Been Anchored. And I'll literally be in the bus like with my head up against the window with tears in my eyes, just thinking about my granddad. Then I wipe my face and go to work. Yeah, it's right there beneath the surface. I mean, I saw it earlier and, you know, I was texting with Jessica earlier about like, hey, you know, Chris is coming in. Like, you know, what should we talk about?

1:45:49Like, what do people not know? Like, what would be, you know, a thread that I could pull that I'm not gonna find on Google because you know him so well. And she was saying that the process of writing the book for you was just as you described it. like it was a very emotional experience for you to revisit your relationship with this man and kind of marinate in that. And she shared one example where you were trying to paint the picture of some experience or some scene or some setting where you were with him. And it just became so real that you got emotional and you had to like take a break, man.

1:46:27Like those emotions for you are clearly like still very much alive and just under the surface of your skin. Yeah, I did the audio version of my book, right? So like - Reading it, yeah. I would get out of practice and I have two hours slotted with two guys that were in New York, like via like Zoom and put the headphones on. And I would, I did that for maybe a month, a couple of months, like two hours every day I would be reading. And that's when it really, really got hard for me. And a few times throughout the process, I had to stop because I tried to make it so vivid in the book that when I'm reading it out loud, it immediately took me back to my grandmother's funeral.

1:47:15It immediately took me right back to my grandfather's funeral. And so a lot of that stuff, like I said, as family members, you don't talk, you don't discuss some of those things. Everybody just sort of deals with it in their own way and they move on. And it was, I mean, you saw, like you said earlier, Like that stuff never leaves you. Yeah. A big theme of this show is, as I was talking about earlier, like change. Like how do we change? Like what is the engine of change? How do you create the desire to change and the belief in your own ability to change? And as somebody who has become very successful, how do you think of yourself as somebody who is a voice for change in the world?

1:48:01And you're somebody who through your entrepreneurship and the investments that you're making in various kind of certain sectors of the economy, your production company, your foundation, all of this is oriented around change or creating a better world. So how would you kind of phrase the operating philosophy behind that and how you think about like how you can use what you have to create that better world. I think one of the biggest things is community, right? If you look at any business plan, anything that tries to grow, it's all about community, right? About sharing with others and finding that connectivity that we may be from different backgrounds.

1:48:52I mean, at the end of the day, that's the premise of my book. My book is about my grandfather, but there's other people who have had mentors or family members that they were connected to like that. And so the importance of community and sharing your experiences with other people and not necessarily forcing it on people. Cause even like with a plant-based lifestyle or anything, a lot of times people don't want things forced on them, but sometimes you gotta nudge it. You know, you gotta keep at least giving them the information and it may take them a while to actually try it. And when I think about change, right?

1:49:29I just think about stacking days, stacking days. My son is small, right? He's small, just like I was. And I've talked to him about the training and how hard it is and this, that, and the third, but he's finally starting to see a little bit of change, right, in his game or whatever, in his ability. And all I keep telling him is just keep stacking days. Just keep stacking days. As long as you keep stacking days, I promise you, I promise you, you will see the change. But my coach used to always say, everything that you want is on the other side of hard. Right? He had another, I think I said in the book, he said, reps removed out, right?

1:50:14Reps removed out. My biggest frustration with my son used to be, we would go outside at the house and he would shoot a shot and he'd be mad. He'd be like, dang. I'd be like, what you mad for? or you don't get up enough reps, you know, so. Yeah, those are the only things you can control anyway. Your effort and the consistency of your effort, right? There's a quote in the book that I love, which is hard work is my preferred language and I try to speak it fluently. Like that's fucking great, yeah, you know? Just stack it up, that's all you can do and walk away. What is your relationship to failure also?

1:50:50Like missing that shot, is it a big deal or are you just moving on? Another rep, another rep, another rep. I was in the gym last night. I was telling you with the kid, Mercy, Mercy Miller last night, we had to end with this drill that I do where you shoot a three in this corner and then you run to the other end of the court, shoot a three in this corner, run to this corner, come to this corner, right? So that's four shots. then you go to this wing five, that wing six, this wing seven, this wing eight, top of the key nine, this top 10, nonstop. So sprint, sprint, sprint, 10 shots. Got to make seven out of 10 and we done with the workout for the day.

1:51:38I went, knocked it out, but not, now Mercy got to go. 10 for 10? I went eight. I went eight out of 10. Mercy's turn to go. First time he, I think he might've got five out of 10. Went again, didn't get it. Went again, didn't get it. Went again, didn't get it. Kept getting the six out of 10 and he would have to, cause he had to just make seven, seven out of 10. He get to the last one, missed it. He might've did this drill 10 times, 10 times. And my son was there too. And I told Chris, I said, listen, I said, Mercy can work out with me any day because he didn't complain. He didn't do nothing. This kid is about to be a senior in high school.

1:52:21He didn't complain. He just kept breathing. I kept talking to him like, don't worry about it. Just keep going, keep going. And sure enough, after 10, 11 tries, he got it. He got it. And I appreciated that from him. And I told him at the end of our workout, because he was like, man, appreciate you letting me come work. I said, no, thank you, because you make it fun for me. And that's the fun part about having 12 kids in the NBA, having all of these young kids coming up and training with them and working out with them, because that's the exciting part for me is to know that when I'm done playing, I'll still be watching and be like, man.

1:53:01Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's cool, man. And I'm sure, you know, within the NBA, because you're, you know, more of an elder statesman now, you have all these young players who are, you know, looking up to you for that kind of guidance and for you to recognize like that brings you joy, you know, to kind of get back in that way. I think it's cool. Definitely. You are gonna make a good owner, man. When are they gonna, you got all this VHS footage of your whole life. Is there gonna be a documentary? Are you making a movie out of this book? Man, we need to. You got the production company. It's crazy, man.

1:53:32We have worked with Disney on a movie about 61. Oh, yeah. We had done it. It got like to production. Oh, you mean like before the book, like a whole narrative scripted. And then we were waiting for it to get greenlit and it did not. Crazy, right? Welcome to Hollywood. Exactly. Yeah. But with all that footage, maybe a little doc. Something, something. Final thing, man. What's the deal with the bowling? Oh man, you bowl? I mean, I bowl like anybody bowls, you know? But you own a bowling team. Like you're like bowling obsessed. LAXs. Yeah. Yep, so growing up, my dad was an avid bowler. Me and my brother used to sit in, we used to sit in bowling alleys with my dad in bowling leagues, you know, full of cigarette smoke and french fries.

1:54:23That's what everything smelled like. And, you know, like my dad is seriously like a superhero to us. Anything my dad did, we wanted to do, everything. So when my dad hooped, we wanted to hoop. he was a diehard Dallas Cowboys fan, that was us, you know, everything. So when he bowled, we went right along with him. I wanna say when I was like a senior in high school, my parents gifted us a bowling ball for Christmas. My bowling ball was a red, white, and blue. It looked like the ABA basketball. And my brother's was a brown ball that looked like a regular basketball. And so then we bowled all the time in high school and college, that's where we go with our friends.

1:55:06and then when I got to the league, I started doing a bowling tournament on ESPN. It's cool. It's fun. It's one of those things that, like I know I say I golf now, but bowling is something that everybody can do. Everybody can do it. You know, like my, I had a, one of my granddad's brothers, he was 80 years old, still in a bowling league, right? Yeah. So it's just fun and easy. That's cool, man. Well, I gotta get you out of here. I could hold you hostage all day, man, but this was super fun. And I mean, you're an inspiration. I really love the way that you lead by example and you teach through your actions and you comport yourself with so much grace and dignity and gratitude also, which you mentioned earlier, which I think is huge.

1:55:54And I'm a fan, dude. I'm a fan. So best of luck with the book. It was really fun to read it and learn about your life. And I get my pod, I'm gonna come back and interview you. I got some more questions. All right, anytime, man, anytime. So, any parting words for the aspiring athlete out there? Somebody who's trying to tap into a little bit more mastery into their life? Yeah, I mean, you hear all these sayings all the time where they say, you're only gonna get out of it what you put into it. But I would say fall in love with the work, right? Like I always say about the NBA, I've had guys, I've had teammates and it's fine.

1:56:40Some guys be like, I don't watch basketball when I go home because I play too much. I don't know. I'd be like, listen, you think if somebody work on, work on wall street, when they go on vacation, they not checking the stock exchange, you know, but to each his own, right? So if you fall in love with the work aspect of it, then the success and the accolades that come with it, but you gotta fall in love with the work. Don't just fall in love with the showers of people telling you how good and great you are. Like if you fall in love with the work aspect of it, then everything else I promise will fall into place.

1:57:20Nice man, spitting fire straight from the mouth of CP3. Thanks buddy, that was really cool. Appreciate it man, it was an honor to talk to you. Thank you. Yeah, thanks man. Peace. Thanks.

1:57:42That's it for today. Thank you for listening. I truly hope you enjoyed the conversation. To learn more about today's guest, including links and resources related to everything discussed today, visit the episode page at richroll.com where you can find the entire podcast archive as well as podcast merch my books finding ultra voicing change in the plant power way as well as the plant power meal planner at meals.richroll.com if you'd like to support the podcast the easiest and most impactful thing you can do is to subscribe to the show on apple podcasts on Spotify and on YouTube and leave a review and or comment.

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1:59:05Portraits by Davey Greenberg, graphic and social media assets courtesy of Daniel Solis, as well as Dan Drake. Thank you, Georgia Whaley, for copywriting and website management. And of course, our theme music was created by Tyler Pyatt, Trapper Pyatt, and Harry Mathis. Appreciate the love. Love the support. See you back here soon. Peace. Plants. Namaste.

1:59:49Thank you.