Elite Endurance Master Cam Wurf On Effective Training, Achievable Goals, The Power Of Consistency, & What It Takes To Win

25:52Especially after the Olympics and his mountain bike win, which was incredible. Yeah, I mean, well, quickly, I took my son to that. Yeah, I know you were there. Yeah, I missed you were there. I was in Paris. I was at the Red Bull house watching it live, but I couldn't get over to see it. It was unreal. I mean, the craziest thing was I had, so I'm running around with Wyatt. He doesn't really like, he's four. He doesn't really like the crowd. So we had good tickets. We could sort of move around where we wanted. and there was this drop-off and, you know, with the Olympic rings on it, I thought how cool to get a photo.

26:23So he's on there, I'm getting the photo. He comes along and I snap the photos and I quickly kind of look through them and I see there's Tom off his bike mid-air jumping off this thing. So he'd like had the flat tire, you know, until that point, it was sort of seemed like a foregone conclusion, the race. Like he got to the front, he was about to drop them and that was it. And he jumps off the bike last second. Like the frame, he was probably half a foot from the edge and he's still on the bike and somehow he gets off and jumps because he knew that if he landed on that rim, it was probably going to explode it and it could have been really bad.

26:57So he obviously changed it and then the whole race dynamic just changed. But just to see what he's like determination to fight back and even - Claws back, then gets passed again and then like - That was the crazy thing. He did that attack on that last lap that looked like it was done and Koretsky responded and got back in front of him and Koretsky hits a tree and Tom gets passed, but then he passes him again. He looked just so much better than Tom. And then Tom finds a way to, you know, brush part and I mean, to be there. And my son, you know, Tom's girlfriend, Bethany, babysat him when he was young up until he was, you know, two or three years old.

27:36And so he spent a lot of time with her and Tom. And he just like to have that experience as that kid, like he knows Tom so well, you know, it still does save a lot, you know, and to witness that. What is happening? You're like, wait, this is my babysitter. Like, I don't understand what's going on. That's his Olympic experience, you know, like to know the guy that won. All my friends win gold medals. Pretty much. Well, the next, a couple of days later, we went to watch the triathlon and obviously Hayden Wilde is a guy in Andorra that I train with all the time. And his girlfriend, Hannah, spends a lot of time with us at the house.

28:08She stayed with us in Tassie. She came down for the half Ironman there earlier in the year. So Wyatt again has spent a lot of time with them. And we went and watched that and Hayden, it looked like he'd won that, you know, like Alex, he passed him on the blue carpet and he just, he's, he's, he's perception of the Olympics. So since then, it's just been, dad, I want you to go to the Olympics. I'm going to go to the Olympics. You know, Tom and Hayden are his heroes. What's the matter with you, dad? Yeah, exactly. Why weren't you there? And I said, okay, mate, well, maybe we'll stick at it. I did it a long time ago.

28:38Yeah, we'll try and get to LA. But last time we were here, and I know you've talked about it since, like you still have your eye on somehow getting into LA 28. Yeah, and there's a bit of an exciting development there. I mean, the rowing was one thing I thought about, but seeing the way the Olympic triathlon panned out, you know, with Hayden and Alex, they both actually basically had a helper. They had someone there to help them. You know, they had a guy that would swim basically pretty close to them and then put them in the position for the run. And I think that that type of event, particularly the Olympics, that dynamic is going that way because there's very few guys that can win, you know, that are capable of it.

29:15And we've actually got a very exciting young prospect from Tasmania that I was, you know, that's when I was home over the summer, Australian summer, Jack Woodbury is his name. He's 16, probably one of the best track runners we've seen at that age. He's actually doing the Junior Worlds next week. He's at 16. So in theory, he's got three years as a junior. Like he is phenomenal. And LA potentially looms as being quite a big favorite. I mean, if I could paint a script of a dream scenario, you know, to make the Olympic team and be able to help him. I mean, I have no idea if I'd be good enough. It would require a huge sort of shift in preparation and all of that.

29:58But it would be definitely something that would motivate me to try, you know, to be there to support him. I mean, he'd only be 19, I'd be 45, 44. So, you know. It's a great story though. Especially being Tasmanian. So that's definitely something that is now, yeah, got some fuel to the fire and makes me swim a little hard and run a bit quicker. You know, the things I'd need to do to try to make that happen.

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35:40so back to the original question which is what makes those guys different from your like you know point of view of being somebody who who is like in the mix with them yeah so it seems that the the biggest difference the the raw numbers yeah they're pretty phenomenal like the the actual power they can do, but the way they can deliver it so much more often than in the past, the way they can stay at that super high level for a long, you know, every day is hard. Back in the old days, the races used to be, you know, a couple of days hard, then maybe an easier day and everyone was pretty happy to do that.

36:15Whereas now these guys are happy to race hard every single day, you know, and honestly, the overall power numbers are not crazily different on the big days, but it's just, you might have seven straight instead of two or three straight. So their fatigue resistance, for example, is quite phenomenal. And I think that just comes from, you know, very young age of just right, you know, growing up in an era where that started to come into the sport and they're just conditioned for that. And you've got the older guard that were used to the old way and have to try to adapt. So they're kind of struggling a bit to bridge the gap.

36:53We saw that with Tade, cause he would make these aggressive moves, like unnecessarily like early in the race. Like, why are you throwing down here? Like you have to think about what, how you're gonna feel in two weeks or whatever. And that was confusing for a lot of people and considered like brash or irresponsible, but he would consistently back it up, right? And so it's like, all right, well, this is a new thing. We're not used to seeing people being unnecessarily aggressive. We're used to seeing people really, you know, conserve their energy and kind of cautiously approach the race if like the yellow jersey is the goal.

37:27Yeah, absolutely. And I mean, knowledge of training and performance and how fast people can go. I mean, these guys have all again, grown up in that era where they know that. They know what Chris Froome was doing. They know what these guys were doing. They could go out and practice it and practice it and practice it, you know, and then figure out how to be better and better and and sort of really raise the level of the sport. One just thing about them all is they're all incredibly polite and lovely guys to speak to in the bunch as well. They're very likable. You know, it's important. That's different too.

38:01Like Lance has talked about how confusing that is for him. Like these guys are hugging each other and they're buddies and he's like, what is happening? There is a lot of that. And the fact is though, that helps you in the Peloton because people are kind of give you some space. They kind of wait to see what you're going to do. They, you know, they have respect for these guys and kind of almost allow them to race the way they want to race, which is a smart tactic on their behalf. Political advantage. Exactly, as opposed to being a bit of a, you know, boss and an a-hole and whatever else and sort of, and then you've got the whole group racing against you.

38:38You know, these guys, yeah, they're just, it's the same with Van der Poel, Wout van Aert. You know, they're just really gentlemanly racers that are very, very good. And I guess the sport, to a large extent, allows them to put on their show. But, yeah, I think to your point, a big thing's been they've had the knowledge of like more so than in the past, say in the Lance era where you could read about what he did, you know, a time up a certain climb or something. But really you didn't, you couldn't quantify it. power meters were rare, heart rate monitors were something, I guess. But we didn't really have a lot of information.

39:18Whereas now these guys just have so much data. They can reverse engineer anything on Strava. They can do all this stuff. And then COVID, I guess, helped because they had that time to really just train. And we've obviously had a period before Kona of endurance sport, I think in general, and a post Kona period where the whole endurance world has just gone to another level where people just had time to put that work in and try to match what the best people can do. But as I said, there's a limit to the physical ability of any human, but the ability to do it more often seems to be what is being exploited.

39:58Yeah, yeah, yeah. Tough year for Ineos. Yeah. Rebuilding year, like what's it like on the team bus? Like what's happening? what is the vision for the year to come? Yeah, it's a tough one. And it's same last couple of years, it hasn't gone great. It hasn't been as many wins. And yet still, if you look at some of the success the team's had, I mean, there's some great successes there. But when you're not winning the Tour de France, it's all even competing. And you have this legacy of dominance also like looming over you. It's seen as a big giant failure, you know? So it's tough. I mean, the guys are getting bashed around.

40:35I think what I feel sorry for a lot of our guys is that, you know, we had some young guys that were very, very good a couple of years ago and doing, you know, exceptionally well winning races, you know, out of the blocks. And now a lot of guys that are older than them, you know, have sort of gone past them. And I think that's quite tough for them because normally, you know, If you're young and you're great, you just expect to continue on this curve. So I think as a team, we need to really look at what we're doing from a performance side to support the athletes to get the most out of them because - What does that look like specifically?

41:18I think it's a problem because you've had so much success. You just sort of figure you just keep doing it and it'll work. And there's been a shift, I think, in a lot of other teams around, I guess, it must be preparation because once you get to the race, it's too late. It's how you turn up to the race, how well you're prepared, how well prepared you are. Also, a bit more of a blank canvas. A lot of teams have had a lot more investment put in. It's like, okay, we weren't competitive with our team. How do we change everything and sort of modernize? I guess they've been able to evolve with the current format of the sport quicker than we've been able to because obviously we still have a bit of a lag potentially with some of the things we were doing in the past.

42:05So yeah, I think we need to go out there and sort of not even try to copy everyone because then you're still going to be behind. But where can you innovate? I mean, Ineos and previously Sky, like that, the advantage was a, you had a bigger bank account to play with, but also there was the Brailsford, you know, kind of sensibility and philosophy of approaching this, this like 1 % better and like finding all of these edges. And that became, you know, a distinguishing factor that allowed the teams to, you know, succeed beyond expectations. But these other teams have caught up, they have bigger budgets.

42:45So, you can't just rest on those laurel, like where you have to continue that innovation process and try to find out where the next advantage is hiding. Yeah, and I mean, you can say, I mean, it is rotten luck. I mean, Egan Bernal crashing, Chris Froome crashing, you know, sort of at the peak of their powers, you know, things unforeseen are also having a lingering effect because, you know, Egan, for example, was signed long-term as, you know, the go-to guy. So all of a sudden you got to find, you know, we had Carlos Rodriguez last year. He was fifth in the tour last year. He had a difficult tour this year.

43:18He was sick a bit, but he was still competitive. I mean, he was still seventh in a very high level. But again, he's another one. There was guys that sort of snuck in between he and those top three that, you know, potentially are older and he was above not long ago. So that's sort of my thing. I believe we've got the personnel. I believe, like you say, we just need to take a bit more of a look. And I mean, I'm not a scientist. I'm the sort of athlete that just loves to get told what to do, get given what they need to get given, you know, as far as nutrition and plans and whatever we, hydration, the equipment, however we do it and trust that we have the best people in those roles and just go out and execute, you know.

44:03Others are very, you know, they love to research stuff themselves, you know, like the only American kid, Magnus Sheffield, you know, he's just always reading, he's always trying to learn. He's always trying to figure out what's going on and better himself and do all this stuff. You know, I personally, I've never been that. I've always just tried to surround myself with the best people and trust what they're doing. So I guess as a team, they need to figure out how to support each athlete individually and how they like to do it and try to find a way to get ahead. You know, it's not even about catching up.

44:38You want to get ahead. But I definitely believe the team has the personnel. So, they keep chipping away at it. They'll find a way and they'll fight back. I mean, it's a great organization with a huge amount of success. And there's a bunch of those people still there, even if you have lost Dave Brailsford at the helm. There's been some chatter about Tom Pidcock's future, some articles being written about this other team, Q36.5. Never heard of this team. Yeah. And some idea that he might, I mean his contract goes through 2027 I think, right? But there's some sense that he might switch teams. Like, is there any insight that you have on that?

45:18Yeah, I mean, obviously I got a lot of insight on it. I mean. Insight that you're willing to share. I'm sure you know a lot that maybe you're not allowed to say. No, I mean, that idea makes sense. I mean, Tom has, I guess, the team really want to focus on winning the Grand Tours. And to this point, Tom has obviously focused on other things. You know, he's wanted to, well, he's wanted to learn about the tour and learn about the Grand Tours. But obviously, as a champion that he is, he's just won his second Olympic gold medal. I mean, that is pretty incredible, especially when you think about the fine margin he won it by.

45:55You know, athletes that can do that like one day every four years, and he's done it twice. class, they're obviously that next level. Now, I guess it's him and the timing. I mean, if he feels there's pressure from the team to do something he'd feel he's ready to do at the moment, then yeah, I mean, it makes perfect sense that if they don't want to support the way he wants to try to win races, then he's going to look for a team that does want to support that. Now, he's got a contract, so he has to negotiate that. The Q36.5 is a very logical choice because he potentially would have an opportunity to build a team around himself there, which is what, if you remember, Matthew Vanderpoel did.

46:40And that team has now grown into quite a successful, incredibly successful team. They've won obviously everything with him, but also Philipson and a bunch of other guys. They win a truckload of bike races and at the highest level. and also on top of that, Tom, you know, Pinarello with them not winning the tour and things the last, Tom's become quite a shining light for that brand with his success. So the owner of that team or Q36.5, which is actually a clothing company, also owns Pinarello. So, you know, there's a natural desire for that owner, for example, to have Tom as his guy. And if he feels that Tom being in a team on his own where he can showcase that more, I mean, it makes sense to me on a bunch of levels, whether the team let him go, let the guy, one of the few guys that's actually capable of winning races at the moment, walk out the door.

47:33I mean, that, yeah, that's for management. That's a tricky decision for them to make. It's interesting though, because they have such a unique and flexible relationship with you and what you do and seem to really respect that you have this whole other career outside of pro cycling and they accommodate that, right? And bring you in when needed, but seem to respect that you have this other world that you're trying to excel in. I guess it's a bit different because they see Tom as a guy that could win the tour. They probably don't rely on me winning the tour. We're paying him a lot more. Yeah, exactly.

48:07We need him in yellow. Yeah. All that other stuff, that's gotta go. Yeah. That's different, I understand. Basically, I mean, that sort of is the line there. I mean, I'm sure if I was one of the few on the team that could perform and they're in the situation they're in where not a lot of guys, you know, they're not having a lot of success or the level of success they would like to have, you know, there'd probably be more pressure. And there has been this year, to be honest, I haven't raced as many Ironmans this year, people would have noticed more because they've called me in at different times.

48:37And, and I've thought of times it was, you know, there was a time recently I wanted to do the Ironman in Frankfurt. I really wanted to race Christian. I'd had a great summer of prep and I I was about to enjoy my last week of recovery ready for that. And the team rang and said, oh, we need you to go to Poland next week. And I was like, well, we've got quite a big Ironman next week and it's part of the pro series, which I want to be a part of and blah, blah. Yeah, well, we need you in Poland. I said, well, fair enough. I don't want to be another one of the riders that doesn't want to go to a race because I don't feel like it.

49:07I've got something else on. I'm on the roster. So, you know, I ended up missing that Ironman. I ended up doing that race and ended up racing again. the following week at Tour of Germany. So I basically did four weeks of like the hardest training of my life. And it was actually fantastic fitness wise. It just gave me a nice big bump. And then obviously then I was released, if you like, from school to come here to the US and sort of hone in on Kona. So as far as Kona went, it was actually probably a godsend. But there's certainly been times this year. I mean, even the Ironman South Africa early in the year when I I qualified for Kona that week.

49:45I raced. You did Amstel Gold. And then you did La Flesche Wallonne. On the Wednesday. And then Ironman South Africa all in eight days. Yeah, yeah, all in eight days. Then I flew that night. Yeah, just to disabuse anybody who might be thinking you're taking your foot off the gas. Yeah, yeah. So, but I mean, I had to do that race because I needed to qualify for Kona. I wanted to do it early. And then you podium, you were third at South Africa. I was leading until 7K to go. I just ran out of gas, which is probably understandable, you know, considering the week that I'd had. I was just a bit tired.

50:18Not exactly a taper. No, it was amazing because I love that race. I love that race in South Africa because we stay in a hotel right basically on the finish line. So, you know, I finished the race. I was third, sat at the podium, did all that, did doping control, you know, walked across the road. Obviously, a lot of people want to stop you and have a photo, did all that, got to the hotel. My wife was already back there waiting for me with our boy. and I walked in, you know, said, gave my wife the flowers. She loves getting those. And, you know, I said, I'll have a shower, had a shower, jumped into bed.

50:50And I remember Liege Bastogne, Liege was on and the Formula One. So I, you know, had that on the TV and the iPad and fell asleep. Now, within probably 30 minutes, like within an hour of finishing the race, hour and a half, I was sound asleep. Now, during that run alone, I think I had around 600 milligrams of caffeine because I was tired. And so I was just pumping every gel I could into me and Coke and whatever else. And plus I'd had some on the bike. And so I probably had a thousand milligrams that day. Yet as soon as I finished, I just fell asleep. Normally I don't sleep until two or 3am the next day.

51:24You're so lit after the race. But, um, but yeah, so I've, I've, this year I've definitely been more accommodating, well, not more accommodating. I've, I've fulfilled my role with the team a lot more. And I've also realized when people say, oh, you know, you should be out of focus. I said, no, I'm part of the cycling team. And for that, I'm a cyclist. You know, I'm not a sideshow triathlete. I do my job properly and just set an example for the other guys as well. If I start not wanting to do this, not wanting to do that, I mean, it just sort of sets a bad example for the rest of the team. So, but yeah, I think in the end, it's left me a bit fresher for this preparation for Kona.

52:04Are you the oldest guy in the Peloton? Are there guys that are older than you? I think there is a couple of guys that might be a little bit older, but certainly in the world tour, yes, I'm the oldest. Yeah. And is there anything, I mean, I'm certain like, not just on Ineos, but like all the guys come to you for wisdom, you've been around so long, like you've seen it all, all that kind of stuff. But then on top of that, like, is there anything at 41 that you have to pay attention to more than you had to when you were 35 or 31? Like, are you noticing like as you're aging up that you can't do certain things you used to be able to do or is it still you're just like all gas all the time?

52:43I have a really low tolerance for crashing now. I do not wanna crash. And if I come close to a crash. That's less about age is more about like parenthood. Yeah, it probably is. But if I see a crash or I see someone do something stupid that nearly, I really, I mean, I don't lash out at it, But I just said to myself, I'm like, what are you? You know, whereas in the past, it's sort of just part of the racing. And by extension, does that impact your aggressiveness on the descents? Yeah, I'm very good at doing my job and being at the front, on the front, out of trouble, keeping my guys out of trouble.

53:15And when I'm done, like when I don't have any legs left, I'm at the back and out of trouble. I'm not sitting in the death zone, you know. And if I can come back, if I can recover back there and come back and help again, absolutely. But, yeah, it's definitely I have a bit of a different approach as far as that goes. But also I'm no good to anyone if I'm on the ground, you know. So and also, yeah, I definitely have less tolerance to that just aggressiveness that goes on unnecessarily. I mean, I'll fight all day for a crosswind section or the first section of the cobbles in Roubaix or whatever, you know, when it's a part of the event.

53:54but just, I mean, nowadays it's just can be nervous all day. You know, I mean, the road can just be blocked all day. So, you know, you've got two choices. You're either at the front and out of trouble or you're at the back and out of trouble and you let the middle of the Peloton sort itself out. How did you feel about that introduction of gravel to the Tour de France? Is that controversial in the Peloton? It made for good viewing, but I don't know if that's sticking around. Guys don't like, I mean, you know, know, you can slip out, slide out and it can ruin months, years. I mean, I'm a big proponent of there's a lot of investment in these guys and for something unnecessarily taking them out, you know, it's sad, you know, especially, I mean, even rain or whatever, you know, like a guy crashes your leader and he's out of the tour.

54:44I mean, a guy you pay millions of dollars and invested even more in and the whole preparation and all of a sudden the team feels like it's good. I mean, But I guess that's also part of the sport. But to add anything else in that potentially you don't need to, does it add to the spectacle? I don't really know. I mean, it's exciting. I remember wanting to watch the stage, knowing that it was going to be something that was going to happen. It's the same with the cobbles. But we're also seeing that those stages are being more neutralized because all the guys are more prepared for it. So I think if you want to see more explosive, exciting racing, you're probably better off doing that on traditional course.

55:22You know, you just throw in some more climbs or a more technical aspect on a normal road course. And then that at least there's more chance of the legs deciding than maybe luck. Yeah. Well, they did a little bit of that this year. I mean, the tour just kicked off like and just went right into the mountain straight away where usually there's several days of sprint stages before you get to that. Yeah. See, I think that's wonderful. But I think if you were going to lose a favorite or lose people because of gravel, I think that's, I don't, I mean, yeah, I don't think that people don't tune in to watch clouds of dust.

56:01I don't think, you know what I mean? It doesn't appeal to as many people. It was kind of exciting though. Yeah. But maybe part of that excitement was just novelty. Oh, absolutely. I don't doubt that part, but yeah, from a, I guess from a writer perspective. A writer perspective, yeah. I mean, it's definitely an added element of, And especially with how nervous, as I said, the Peloton and everything is nowadays, it's, yeah, it just makes for a really, really tough day. And then in the end, nothing really changed. Why did we do that? Yeah, yeah, exactly. So that would be more my point. Yeah, I get it.

56:31Maybe if you're gonna do it, how about we do like a 20 % gravel climb, you know, like that is just gonna decimate the field and then it kind of makes sense. So let's talk about Kona coming up in two weeks. we were talking earlier about the former era. You could win the race or really distinguish yourself by being really strong in one discipline. Norman Stadler on the bike, those types of athletes, that's no longer the case. You really have to be great at all three. That's just the progress that this sport has made. We've got the Norwegians, Christian and Gustav. We've got, of course, Sam Laidlow who broke the bike course record the other year.

57:12We've got Patrick Longa. But like, how is this shaping up in your mind? Like, how are you thinking about the competition and your specific approach to the race? Yeah, like you say, you've got to be good at everything now. And that's a great thing. I mean, that's how it should be. It's a professional sport and you should have to be very good at the craft. And I think it's just going to be a natural sort of demolition of the field because it's going to be on from the start. So, you know, you're going to have guys eliminated very early. as early as the swim. The trope has always been like, you can't win the race in the swim, but you can lose it.

57:49You can definitely. But do you think we're now in an era in which perhaps the swim is much more important than it ever has been? Absolutely. And the momentum at the front of the race, the dynamic of what ends up at the front after the swim will have a big impact on how the race plays out. So, yeah. Which is why you on Instagram yesterday shared some clips of you swimming and asked. yeah for feedback you know some cheeky feedback it's funny because one of the most common comments was you got to finish off a bit more so this morning i actually had open water practice with tower 26 and the wonderful thing about swimming with tower 26 and those beach swims is the same people show up every week and there's some very strong open water swimmers there and when i rocked up six weeks ago i got dropped straight away i mean i'd been racing on the bike i'd been sort of training on my own for a few weeks.

58:42Hayden Wild had been at the Olympics and when he went off and did that, then he had a break. We hadn't really trained together for really a couple of months. I'd lost that competitiveness in the swim that I'm exposed to. Anyway, all of a sudden, the second week, right, okay, get up earlier, have your coffee, have some gels, make sure you got fuel on board. I was then able to stay in the group. Then the next week, you start drawing alongside. Then the next week, you're eyeballing the top guys. Then you're actually starting to to race them. I mean, it's been great for me to have a benchmark to like see my improvement.

59:16But the feedback about finishing off the stroke was great. Cause this morning I was actually, I would have sort of, okay, I'm just gonna work on that one thing. And I gotta say, I really appreciate the people that gave me that feedback. Part of it was tongue in cheek though. Cause obviously you're not gonna like overhaul your stroke, you know, mechanics two weeks out. And I know I'm swimming well. It was sort of a joke, but then you, like I had some thoughts, you know, But then I was like, eh, like he's fine. What if he reads it? Yeah, yeah. But the best were like, here's my feedback. Like you should quit swimming or like, you know just like, you know, very kind of like Aussie sort of comments.

59:52I always, when I put swimming up I always get some great stuff, but I also know that it's the one thing that people can really have a dig at me. And I give people such a hard time, you know, often or people perceive. On their running form or. Yeah, anything, not wearing t-shirts, whatever it is, Lionel and he's, I mean, it was best yesterday's double threshold day. I was like, Lana, that's so 2022. I mean, we haven't spoken about double thresholds since 2022. And people are always into me about it being nasty or whatever. So, yeah, I make a bit of fun of myself. But I think it's... Following through on your stroke.

1:00:26That's some solid one-on-one, swimming one-on-one feedback. Exactly. And I mean, I've still got two and a half weeks. I can make improvements. So people, please, you know, feedback. A little more shoulder roll. you're a little flat on the surface there. And your right arm comes across like very, very kind of horizontally, right? So flat like that. Whereas if you can just get that higher elbow, you can get more of a shoulder roll and a deeper pull. And also you're using your legs too much. which a lot of people said that. Like no reason, and in a wetsuit, just drag your legs, man. There's no reason for you to be kicking like that.

1:01:01I was. You just, the only purpose of kicking isn't, it's not propulsion, it's body position, right? To keep your body high. Yeah, I normally don't. I was actually doing a bit of faster stuff. I didn't wanna put my slow swimming up there. I wanted to try. So that was - You don't wanna be that vulnerable. Yeah, yeah, yeah, no. But yeah, I like that, the shoulder, that's a great one too. These are little things I've still got time to work on. Yeah, and one of the things that Lionel has been doing that I wanted to get your feedback in on that I thought was interesting. You know, we talk about zone training, zone two, you know, like threshold, all that sort of stuff, but he doesn't really talk about zones at all.

1:01:38He's always talking about LT1 and LT2. So LT1 being when your body first begins to accumulate lactate, but not to the degree that you can't be always like purging it. So it's sort of maybe you're into the higher zone two kind of range and then LT2, which is when you lose your ability to clear that lactate and you're more in that kind of like threshold pace. Do you think in those terms or how, and he's always pricking his ear and taking lactate and all of that. Like what's your view on all that? So there's two things with the science. I mean, if you know what you're doing, like the Norwegians, you do it.

1:02:14I mean, if you don't know - They're all in fully. Exactly, I think we spoke about it last time. Like I spoke to Alexander about that. And it's like, if you don't know what, you're better off doing nothing. So I hope in Lionel's case he knows what he's doing. But the funny thing about LT1 and LT2, I did laugh when I started to hear that term re-emerge. That was exactly - Because that's old school. That like - That was our rowing. That was our rowing efforts. Like I've been doing that since I was 15. It was LT1 effort, LT2, you know. And so I know exactly what that zone. But I mean, I guess in today's terms, it's simply, as you say, zone three, you know, the threshold, which is that just after zone two phase, but still comfortable.

1:02:53And then, or you go VO2, you know, which is past threshold, where as you say, it's like a minute or a couple of minutes sort of max. And then you're, you gotta really figure out how to clear that because you're just getting more and more into the hole. So yeah, I've, it's funny. I haven't heard, I hadn't heard those terms for 20 years. Yeah, it was interesting when I started hearing that, I was like, yeah, that come, that, that, that is way back, right? But now it's, I guess if you, but if you, the difference being like he's pricking his ear and he's getting blood. And so he's testing his lactate all the time, which is that's the kind of improvement on what used to be just something you would go on feel for.

1:03:32Yeah, absolutely. I mean, to put it in Italian, I had an Italian coach, Ardo Sassi, quite a legend, he's now since passed, but he had the MAPA team. He was the one that just drove, was started that and managed that. but he used to call it a lungo, which was zone two, medio, which is medium, solia, which is threshold and sopra solia, which was, you know, above threshold. I kind of like that. I think you should just only use those terms going forward. I might use those ones from now, just to confuse everyone. And everyone will think you've invented some new training. But yeah, it's basically, I don't think you change those.

1:04:07Because as you said, they're a sensation. You strike me as, you're kind of, you've been doing this so long. You don't like, yes, I'm sure you have a power meter and all that kind of stuff, but like, you know where you're at, right? Like, and you know what you need. And so you don't strike me as somebody who's like digging into the weeds of, you know, all the data points. No, not at all. I mean, I just sort of know how fast I need. I mean, Dave Zabriskie gave me some of the greatest advice, which was forget about what the power meter says and, you know, make sure, just figure out how to go fast.

1:04:35You know, Bradley McGee was another one that gave me the same advice. Two of the greatest sort of prologue time trial. Yeah, I think Dave, does Dave still have the time trial record, fastest time trial? I think he does. Yeah, yeah, no, he does. So, and he's out here, you know, he's got his boys now. Yeah, and his boys are brilliant. Now they're gung ho cyclists. I mean, they're homeschooled and they're cycling flat out. And I mean, the team even asked me to make sure I spoke to Dave while I was out, find out if any other teams have been speaking to them. I mean, okay, one of these boys is actually - Dave is sort of like, what have I reaped?

1:05:06You know, like I think he got his kids into cycling for fun. And now like they're sort of, you know, in his, you know, taking his path and he's like, uh-oh. Yeah, yeah, exactly. I mean, as you said, I can't wait for them to go to a team because I've had to build a team. I did not want to build a team. I mean, I've got bikes and wheels and driving them here and there and traveling everywhere with them. You know, you can't wait for them to go to the next level. Get it out of my hands. Yeah, but so, you know, and he even shared yesterday, as I said to you before, just like getting a bit of heat exposure now going into Kona.

1:05:39I mean, over in Santa Monica where we are, it's a lot cooler than out here. So yesterday, instead of doing my TT efforts, I've been doing up around the strawberry fields and been quite pleasant. But Dave used to use from Malibu Canyon on Mulholland past your place, up seven-minute hill, and then you just get to the top of seven and then roll back down. Loop it around. Loop it around, just do that. So I did that a few times yesterday, and I know how quick I need to be going at the perceived effort, and it was hot as hell. you know um so um yeah i mean i more look at i'll sort of pick a point to point you know i know that you know for 90 minutes i can go from zoomer back to the top of the hill with the the gas station after zoomer i know i'm going pretty well you know so what the power meter says or the heart monitor or whatever is kind of irrelevant and then during the race trying to tune that out completely and just race and now we're racing you know i mean that's the thing you know when we're in the race, it's like, you gotta do what you gotta do to get to where you need to be, to give yourself a chance to try and win this thing.

1:06:48And especially when it comes to Kona, especially the, you know, as disappointed as I was to have a disappointing Kona, I was still 11th, you know, last time around, but it was a backward step from fifth. And how many guys like broke the bike course record that? You were under, and you were, it was your record. Oh yeah, I think I was, Sam obviously broke it. I was also under it, I think. You were under it. Yeah, and there was maybe one other. Were you second off the bike? I wasn't second off the bike, but I was second quickest. Time split, bike split. Yeah, I was just behind the Norwegians. So they had that group of three.

1:07:19So I was fifth off the bike. I just about caught them. But yeah, basically Kona's that race. And it also makes you realize that, you know, being fifth, I've been ninth, been 11th, I've been 17th. At the end of the day, it doesn't matter now what I, you know, like I've gotta just try and finish as high as I possibly can. You know, it's not about having a good performance there. It's about trying to win the thing, you know, it's all or nothing. Yeah, I mean, you're still, you still got your eyes on the prize, right? Still possible. Yeah. So, predictions for the race, like where do you see yourself?

1:07:56How are you gonna execute on this? Who are the other people that you're thinking about and where they're gonna kind of fall in that pecking order? Yeah, I mean, obviously at my age, everyone kind of assumes, you know, you probably won't be a factor. Well, you can be a sleeper. Yeah, like you can kind of sneak up on. But I think back to when I first went to the Olympics and someone said, and I'll explain it, but if you reach the top of any elite sport and you make it to that and you're a chance of competing, you know, you're doing the biggest event in that sport. In our case, that's Kona as a professional.

1:08:28I've never been on that start line and someone's gone out on those surfboards and ask for our birth certificate. No one cares how old you are. If you've earned the right to be there and you are there, you've got a chance of trying to win that thing. It's irrelevant. It doesn't matter if you're young or old. Yeah, I don't even think about that part. I'm only thinking about figuring out how to beat these guys. And to do that, I know I have to swim very well. I need to be close to the front of the race if I'm not at the front of the race. I need to get to the front of the race and I need to ensure that the race is very hard so that if anyone else is there, the run is - You're forcing a bike pace that is getting - Exactly.

1:09:12Your competitors out of their comfort zone more than you. Precisely. And it was actually really good because I raced, I did a last minute Ironman in the summer in Vittoria Gasteiz, which was, I was meant to be actually racing the bike that week. And then they said, oh no, you don't have to come. I was like, oh great, I'll go and do the Ironman then. This is like a Thursday and the race is on the Sunday. and Sam was there, Laidlow. And they actually, you know, I actually didn't swim very well. I had a terrible, like I just sort of got through the bike and thought I'll just do a good run. I was actually planning to go to Lake Placid the weekend after.

1:09:44I was sort of doing it more as a training session and figured I was out of the race. But I almost, I ended up third and the group that I came off the bike we'd ended up first and second. So we were the podium and we ran all of the front. There was a front group of about four or five up the road that had ridden very, very hard. And Sam was the only one that stayed just in front of me, but he'd been disqualified because he didn't take a drafting penalty. So I was fourth out of the line, but ended up third. But it reminded me that, wait a minute, like if this bike, if these guys try to ride that hard, you know, they actually really damage their run.

1:10:21So as a hard bike into a run goes, I really believe that I can be there. And so obviously that's my strategy to somehow make the bike hard. So if people are there, they've got a bit of the edge off them, you know, and that makes it a bit more of a scrappier grind out run or they're going to have to sit up and burn a lot of time and bank on guys blowing up. Yeah.

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1:12:32You have, with age, also more experience at this race than anyone else, but also you have done more work over the years than anybody else. It's like you have this insane work capacity in a sport that is about work capacity. And you just love it. If it was up to you, I'm sure you would train all day, every single day of your life. Absolutely. And you have this thing, which is you basically never get tired, right? And I heard, I had like Ken Rideout on here and Jesse Isler and they, I don't know who invented it, but one of them like deploy this tactic when they're in a race and they just look at the guy that who's their neck and neck with.

1:13:10And they're like, you know what? You know the thing about me? Yeah. What? I just never get tired. It's crazy. But you could actually say that and you are that guy. Like you don't get tired. Yeah, I don't. I also, I mean, I love, like I said to the other day, I had a great sort of adventure day, you know but it ends up being a pretty crazy day of training. So just to explain people what you did. Yeah, so I had the morning, the squad swim, which was an hour and that's like the hardest squad swim of the week. At Tower 26 at the Palisades pool. Yeah, they go flat out on Saturdays because everyone's off work and, you know, they've had a bit more of a sleep in.

1:13:44We don't swim till 7.30, so everyone's a bit more jazzed up. So, and everyone wants to, you know, is there to smash me basically. I mean, Jerry and his guys are amazing. They just really commit to like helping me prepare the best that they possibly can. I really appreciate that. And then, yeah, I did my bike right up to the strawberry fields. But, you know, instead of going back to Santa Monica and doing a run, I said to my wife, could you meet me out here in Calabasas? And I'll give him a bike and then I'm gonna run up dirt Mulholland because it was so hot out here. I wanted to get some heat.

1:14:16So did you start at Peddler's Fork or did you start No, no, I started in Santa Monica. But no, for the run part though. Oh, for the run, yeah, I started at, yeah, Peddler's Fork. Right, and so you just took, you took a Valley Circle to the beginning of dirt Mulholland? I actually added a bit, I ran around past the commons and then up that way and then along Mulholland and I actually grabbed a last minute Coke at the gas station there on Mulholland, just to really load up, because I felt how hot it was when I started running. And I think it's from the beginning of the dirt on dirt Mulholland to the Nike missile tower is like six and a half or something like that.

1:14:50Yeah, I mean, it ended up being 19 kilometers. So nearly 12 miles to there. From, yeah, from peddlers. From peddlers, yeah, by the time I'd done the extra bit. And then there's that one water fountain. And then there's the one water fountain at the top. You took a photo of that, I know exactly what that water fountain is. And I was listening to your podcast. You were talking about LMNT and I'd taken an LMNT with me because I don't know why I did, but as you saw, I had a gel, I had a Morton gel, an LMNT. I didn't even have a bottle, but I ended up having a bit of the gel, pouring the LMNT into the gel packet, and then putting a bit of water out of the fountain, mixing it all around, scoffing it down.

1:15:27So I got some sodium in, got some sugar in, had a good drink. It was like 100 degrees out that day. It was 100. And dirt Mulholland is like hotter than it is super hot up there. It was a light tail breeze as well. So it just couldn't, yeah. And then obviously I ran down in down Westridge into Santa Monica. It was like 34. So it was, you know, 21, 22 miles in the end. But it dropped about 40 degrees. I mean, I always got hypothermia when I got to the bottom. But, you know, and it's like at the end of the day, you've done, you know, seven, that was two hour, 20 run, four hours on the bike, you know, seven and a half hour day, more or less.

1:16:03And I just love it. I mean, it was just so, such an interesting day for me, but yet, as far as an athletic side, it was like a really high level, you know, the, the bike was a really hard bike, you know, a really Ironman specific type session, um, with some good consistent hard power and, and the run, you know, I pushed the pace all the way up to Nike, knowing that it's all downhill from there. Isn't that the worst you think? Oh, it's all downhill, but you realize you're actually running. It's not like on a bike, like you could kind of let your legs go, but it actually hurts even more when they're tired going downhill.

1:16:36But that's also something that we've actually done a bit of this year, more of, which is designed to, and that was the other idea behind the run because a few weeks before I'd actually run from Santa Monica up to Westridge and just back down. And I said to Brett at Nike, I said, look, I've got an idea of a different route, you know, and it sort of puts the downhill at the same point but a bit more of an interesting way to get up there. So that was the reason why. And the downhill portion down West Ridge is much steeper than the ascent up to Mahalo. It's almost half. Yeah. And then you've got the concrete part at the last part.

1:17:11So it was, that was a great day. Good one, man. But no, I love, I love it. I honestly love it. What is your sense of what's happening with the Norwegians? So as we all know, there was this commitment after the prior Ironman season that they were going all in on the Olympics. they were gonna step it down to shorter distances. Christian did not have, like Gustav had some other issues and did not compete. And Gustav had a subpar performance in the Olympics. Now he's back to Kona, difficult transition. He had like a big win at an Ironman in between, where he showed like, hey man, I'm just as good as I ever was.

1:17:55Yeah. What do you think happened at the Olympics and where do you think like he's at right now in his counter prep? Yeah, I don't know. I mean, he hasn't really been at that level since Tokyo. You know, he hasn't dominated really anything since then as far as on an Olympic level. You know, and I train with Hayden all the time in that period. I mean, he and Alex have been a long way ahead of him, you know, really that whole period. So it wasn't a surprise. I mean, that was about where everyone expected him to finish. so whether he's lost some speed yeah well I guess that's it I mean he was with them off the bike he was in he was in a position to win off the bike he just didn't have the legs so you can just assume that time has meant that he's lost speed I mean Alex and Hayden are younger and maybe that and they're running quick you know like 29 minutes in that kind of heat it's pretty remarkable so you'd think that also that with his age the Ironman would actually suit him better so potentially you know, from where he might be very disappointed of how that panned out, he could actually be primed for an even better performance in Ironman, which is quite scary.

1:19:02And bringing that period of time in which he was so speed focused, maybe not fast enough to, you know, to distinguish himself in the Olympics, but bringing that back into the Kona context could be like a powerful weapon. Yeah, it's certainly not something that I'm excited for him to have, you know, and that's why I guess the only vulnerability and, you know, and this is the bike, you know, if we can somehow make him work harder than he wants to work. I mean, they're very calculated with how they do things. Can we deaden his run? I mean, that's the only option. Or is he going to do his own thing and bank on running everyone down?

1:19:41And Gustav. Yeah, you just don't know. You don't know. Yeah, we don't really know. But there's, again, a bit like we're talking about Kipchoge, guys that are that good. Same with Gustav. you cannot rule them out. I mean, I think Sam Laidlow is a clear favorite. There's Magnus Ditlev, the big Danish guy, great Dane, we call him. I mean, he's had some phenomenal, consistent performance over the past few years and he'll be a factor. But yeah, I mean, it's Kona. There's just something about that race that you never know who it's going to destroy and you never know who it's gonna put up on the pedestal and turn into a king.

1:20:21So that's what's exciting about it. If Australian energy has anything to do with your success, you're in good company because right now the Aussies are setting the pace in terms of what's happening at the outer edges of endurance. So I wanna spend a few minutes talking about kind of what's happening right now. We have Lachlan Morton who just broke by like seven days, I think. That's a lot. The record for cycling the perimeter of Australia, Insanity, he did it in 30 days, riding some insane number of kilometers every single day and getting like seven hours of sleep every night, rewriting that record, which is unbelievable.

1:21:02And right now we have Ned Brockman approximately like halfway through his attempt to break the thousand mile record on the track in Centennial Park. Yeah, yeah. And the videos that are on Instagram right now, like showing the brutal reality of what he's decided to shoulder for himself are pretty insane. Yeah. I mean, I just should say, like we've seen, we talked a bit briefly before about the endurance world and post-COVID era of hype, you know, the level, how it's gone. I mean, really in that world as well. I mean, these guys are, it's mind boggling. I mean, they are world, world class. I mean, you know, I guess in the past sometimes it was like, you know, it might be like some 56-year-old guy that runs across America or something, you know, and it's like, wow, that's like an incredible achievement or whatever.

1:21:54But these guys are now touching on like the high performance part of these extreme challenges, which I think blows my mind. I mean, yeah, we get to Lachlan, but Ned at the moment, I mean, you think about, you know, a thousand miles. Okay, wow, that's a lot. 10 days. Oh, okay. Yeah, that's a lot. oh wow that's like four marathons in a day right 100 miles every day every single day you know and he's on track I mean he just passed halfway he's on track for it but I mean that is just I mean a marathon a day is enough to be very hard to you know people have done that in every state or whatever but four of them I mean not just one day four of them like every I mean it literally just actually blows your mind and I mean obviously then the same with Lachlan you know I mean it was almost what 300 miles a day 250 miles a day and I don't know I mean people have people are used to riding around here you know and beautiful hot mix and super fast roads man you go to Australia and those those roads are like you know I mean they're dead as Elvis they are like just slow grind, like just like chip seal, like it's hard to ride on them, you know?

1:23:06So they, I mean, we always say, you know, like the Aussies, when they go back to Europe at the start of the year, they're always flying because they've been at home training on these roads that are just dead and hard, you know, and their legs toughen up. And then as the year goes on, the Aussies performances tend to fall because the legs soften up a little bit, um, race you're out on the fast, fast uh fast roads of europe so you know what lachlan did i mean 14 14 200 kilometers which is 8 823 miles yeah in 30 days 450 kilometers a day on average yeah getting seven hours of sleep at night that's the thing the sleep part like that's literally just like that's a training camp for him yeah i mean i what is it you know this guy right yeah i mean i was in touch with him jury.

1:23:51He sent me a wonderful selfie at one point. I mean, I was, it was actually a day, it was a Wednesday. I won't forget because I just finished swimming and I was about to do the run, similar run to what I'll do this afternoon. And I was like, you know, it's just a tough one to get up for. You know, it's a hard session. You'd be tired from the swim. And I just messaged him and say, mate, listen, like I just want you to know that when I'm trying to get out the door for the third session of the day or the fourth session or, you know, whatever. I often think of you and it just sort of reminds me to just show up and go and do it.

1:24:27I mean, a bit Ken Wright outside like that. And literally, he must have just stopped for the day or something because he like sent me a picture of himself, like a smile back later on. It's just, yeah, it's just like, it is. It's very motivating you know it's people like he and people like ned that you know remind you when you do need to do a session and you don't really keen to start it you know it's just like just get rolling i mean and they're not trying to say they're doing the fastest they are they're setting world records of course but they're not trying to proclaim that they're faster than pogacar you know or if they if lachlan well in lachlan's case he probably could have won the tour you know if he'd if he'd gone down that chosen that path.

1:25:09I mean, he was a phenomenal, still is, but a junior talent that the sky was seen to be the limit. And for whatever reason. Chose a different path. I mean, for people that don't know Lachlan Morton, you know, world team rider for EF, you know, was in the mix and in the Peloton and had a certain career trajectory and kind of pulled a Laird Hamilton. You know, it's like, I, you know, I could do this, but like actually my passion in cycling is something else altogether that I wanna kind of, I wanna paint a different type of canvas and I wanna do it my way. And stepped out, first distinguished himself by doing this thing called the Alt Tour, where he rode the whole Tour de France by himself, unassisted, like, you know, and his feet got all chewed up so much that he created this sort of like Birkenstock type shoe that he was riding with and sleeping on the side of the road.

1:25:58And he ended up getting like more engagement for that than like the EF team did for their performance in the Tour de France, which kind of validated like this idea that, you know, you can carve your own path as an athlete that began with guys like Laird. And now there's more kind of like established roots to doing this and has just continued while also distinguishing himself in gravel, like one unbound right now, like he's just an absolute beast. And then he takes on these insane challenges and like really like the whole world, like rallies around him. Like he could be like one of the most popular cyclists in the world, like people love him.

1:26:34For sure, he's mainstream. I mean, he's one of the few cyclists that's written about in mainstream media or covered in mainstream media. I mean, it's phenomenal. And like you said, there's been that evolution of him kind of discovering that world and doing these things to all of a sudden now we're seeing a real high performance level of doing these things. Like you said, he won unbound. He tried with Leadville. You know, he had some mechanical problems, but it was still right up there. I mean, he's got some races coming up here at the end of the year. I mean, basically this was like a big training camp for him, you know, for doing those events.

1:27:06I mean, yeah, he's a really class act. And like I say to people, you know, if you're ever struggling for motivation to do anything, just have a read of what he's up to because he'll be doing something that'll be a bit like Ned, you know. I mean, let's see how he goes his next few days. He's on track now. But I mean, what he's trying to do, that really blows my mind. I mean, it's wild. It's wild. Yeah. And it appears we're on like day five, I think right now when we're recording this, he's starting to, you could see the cracks, he's struggling, but his mental game is so powerful. My only concern is because he's getting so little sleep, like does he have somebody on his team to really keep him out of real mortal danger?

1:27:46Cause he's one of those guys who will just go until like he drops and he's in an ambulance, you know? Yeah. That's, I got faith in him. I do too. I'm not betting against that guy, you know? And I just love his enthusiasm and just the way that he can like unite all of these people. And he gets all these people who don't necessarily have any connection to the endurance world, like excited about what he's doing. And he's raising all this money for homelessness, just like Lachlan raised a ton of money for indigenous literacy. So I think these things are really cool. And so I have an idea for you, Cam.

1:28:22Yeah. Speaking of bringing high performance to, you know, the sort of granola crunchy world of some of these ultra endurance races. I think we need to see you toe the line at Ultraman because you would just absolutely rewrite the record book on that race. Well, potentially that's another one the guys are doing the levels raised. It's starting to, but we still have yet to see like on the women's side, there's been like some, you know, women pros who have gone in and like done incredibly well and rewrote the record book there. but I don't think we've seen a true star standout male. Yeah, well, I've definitely looked at it and obviously next year presents an opportunity because there is no Kona.

1:29:01I mean, that's the other thing with Kona now. That's why this year is so, there's so much more riding on it. We only get to do it once every two years. You know, they split the world championships now, but the reality is, yeah, I mean, the world championship is still a huge thing to try to succeed, but all of us want to win in Kona. I mean, that's the event that, you know, that's what an Ironman triathlete wants to do or wants to do well at. But you can just stick around, you know, in Hawaii for another month and then just do Ultraman. I just, I guess the problem would be I, this time I haven't qualified.

1:29:32I didn't plan it properly, but certainly in the next couple of years, it's a hundred percent is because I feel like my background from stage racing on a bike and obviously my triathlon background, in theory, it should be something that suits me quite well because of you as, you know, the listeners, you know, you do the swim the first day and a bit of the bike, and then you do a big bike ride the second day, and then you do the double marathon. It's a cycling race predominantly. Pretty much. It favors cycling for sure. Well, you know more than me, you've done it. So, yeah. So, I think it is something I'd love to do.

1:30:03I'll come and crew you. That'd be awesome. Yeah. Have some experience there. Unbelievable. One of the things that I think is, this is kind of shifting gears a little bit that I've noticed about you, I think is really smart, is you recognize this privileged situation that you find yourself in, where you are elite in a sport that a lot of kind of amateurs like to participate in. And in many ways, cycling is sort of like golf now in terms of like business development and stuff like that. and you get invited to ride in all these grand fondos and participate in fundraising rides like best buddies and stuff like that.

1:30:47And that puts you in the environment of all these sort of successful businessmen and entrepreneurs. And I think you're really smart in the way that you leverage sounds like too opportunistic a word, but like you're aware like, oh, this is a privileged situation that I get to hang out with all these people and you're not squandering it. You're like, I'm getting to know all these guys. Like you're not somebody who when the sun finally sets and you decide like you don't wanna be a professional athlete any longer, like you have all these people. Like I would imagine you'll find your way into a different career path like quite easily because of these relationships that you've developed over many years.

1:31:27Yeah, the CEO of our cycling team, John Allett, he actually suggested I read a book called The Tipping Point recently, Malcolm Gladwell and The Connector. And, yeah, it is a fascinating read and it's funny reading that you start to really see how exactly you sort of touch on a lot of different sport has allowed me and it's opened so many doors to meeting a bunch of great people and then how do you piece all those things together, which I often do, you know, the introductions and different things that are going on. I mean, as I say with Best Buddies, I would connect bit dots here to help with that and boost that and yeah, a range of different things.

1:32:08So 100%, my next, I was asked recently about, you know, what I want to do next. And there's two sides to it. One is you got to support your family, but obviously I want to give back in some way. And I feel like, you know, some sort of, I guess, venture capital, private equity is a way to look at doing that because you're kind of helping businesses grow. You know, you can have a philanthropic, you know, angle to that perhaps. And you can sort of give other people an opportunity to succeed. You know, like I've been given so many opportunities to do what I can do. Sponsors stick by you, people stick by you, friends stick by you, people, you know, encourage you to do stuff.

1:32:51It would be great to offer that role back. And I realized that doing, competing at this level is the best way to continue to have those relationships because you develop a rapport and a respect and trust with other people that are very successful. And in that case, it's like successful people in the business world. But in reality, you're both trying to compete. You're both trying to do the same thing. And so the level of people that you're exposed to is similar to the level that you're operating at, which obviously in turn means they're very, very good at what they do. And it's a huge opportunity for me to, um, to meet these people and, and I really do cherish those relationships.

1:33:33So, uh, yeah, I'm really excited about the next phase. That's for sure. I really, uh, however that looks, I still don't know a hundred percent, but, um, there's just the one thing that's certain is all those incredible people. I know we, we, we spoke, um, Willie Walker, you know, common friend of ours you're in India with, you know, but people like that being able to do something where I can connect with all these people, I guess is my ultimate goal, you know, and how that works. So that, you know, I'm able to, that network that I've developed, and I'm sure will continue to develop, which I believe is very, could be a very, very powerful network and just do something, you know, really meaningful in the future.

1:34:17It like belies or like puts the light of the idea that like, oh, you're just a, you're a professional athlete, like you're just in this like extended adolescence, you know, and like, when are you gonna grow up and be, but it's like, no, like you're around all of these amazing people who are, you know, excelling in all these interesting and different ways as entrepreneurs and business people and it gives you access to it and they love hanging out with you, you know what I mean? It motivates me, you see their success and I guess a lot of that's like a monetary success and you, you're just motivated by that.

1:34:49You think, wow, that's good. You want to succeed. You realize that, you know, success can bring you a lot of great things. You know, you can give back, you can have a great life yourself. I mean, that's what's wonderful about all these people, that environment that I meet them in. Often it is through Best Buddies, for example, you know, a charity organization and that's super, super inspiring. So yeah, no, I feel really grateful. Do you think that you're a guy who, you know, a day will come where Ineo says, we're not gonna renew your contract or what, you know, like maybe you're 60 at this point, I don't know.

1:35:25But at some point, probably, you know, a reality. Are you somebody who you think like, okay, that chapter of my life is done and I'm going all in in this other area? Or are you gonna be the guy who, yeah, I'm not competing for money necessarily, but I'm gonna, yeah, I'm gonna go do Ultraman or maybe I'm gonna ride Unbound or like, You'll continue to do these things as long as you are passionate about them. I love this Ironman. I do love it. I love everything about the experience of going to a race. I mean, my son now, he can't wait to go to Kona and do Iron Kids. You know, that whole... I mean, I think that I could certainly see myself enjoying, just enjoying going and doing an Ironman and having a bit of a trip to somewhere where we haven't been or whatever else, keeping active.

1:36:14But I won't chase competitiveness, I don't think. I mean, I would have spent such a massive part of my life by the time that time comes, as you say. I mean, we've sort of this 45 or 20, 28, like nine seems to be a pretty good line in the sand. What happens over the next few years? Is there like a phase out? Do I slowly phase more out of the cycling team, but get more involved in business in that time while we're still competing, trying to compete at the highest level. I mean, that's something that's potentially quite exciting. Um, but, um, yeah, I, I think once I've, once I'm done at that level, I'll be pretty content with the competitiveness that I've had over the years.

1:36:57I don't think I'll be chasing too many, too many competitions. Just doing it for the love. Yeah. I, I'm sure. I mean, my son plays tennis, he plays golf. I'll be really happy actually playing those things as well. Um, with him at that point, as opposed to riding my bike everywhere, But yeah, I mean, I love exercising and I love being active. So one thing's for sure, I'll be doing something, but I think I'll be pretty happy. I think I'll always be a competitor, but I might just probably choose to be competitive in another discipline. I would imagine. Just because, you know, you hang out. Just not sport.

1:37:31Yeah, the competitive nature doesn't like, you know, suddenly dissolve. No, no, I never will. I mean, I read a great, you know, even quote by Musk recently, If you want to get old quickly, stop learning. You know what I mean? It's so true. I mean, you come here to America and you see, you know, people that are older just still pushing and pushing and pushing and they look young and vibrant and they're out of energy. You're like, where do they get it? Because they're hungry. They're still wanting to succeed. I mean, the moment, yeah, you can stop and you'll stop quickly, especially as you get older.

1:38:06As you get older, the stop will happen even faster. Yeah. So yeah, I won't be losing that edge. You're the people's champion. We're all pulling for you, buddy. I appreciate that. I feel that. Well, you got to run, you got to get to, so I'm gonna let you go, but any kind of like parting final words for those that are gonna be tuning in to see you race in Kona? Just enjoy, admire the level of the sport. Yeah, and yeah, just admire the sport and maybe it'll tug your heartstring. You might want to do one yourself. It's a great sport. I love it. I mean, it's really given me everything I have today and I love doing it with my family.

1:38:50And yeah, it's a very unique sport. We're all out there together. And this one just happens to be at the absolute highest level. But it's all relative for everyone on that day. We're all going through the exact same thing from the first to last finishes. So yeah, I mean, just encourage people if they are thinking about it, watch the sport and might inspire them to do one themselves. Awesome, man. Thanks for coming and sharing with us today, especially like last minute, spontaneously like this. Pleasure. I don't know how much more time you're gonna be spending in the area in the future, but it would be fun to have you back on just to talk about like general endurance stuff.

1:39:30Like it was fun to talk about Lachlan and Ned. Yep. So, you know, massive kudos to Lachlan and nothing but crazy respect for Ned. Ned who's in the middle of it right now. Everybody's gotta tune into this. Go on Instagram, find his account, Ned with 2Ds, give him a shout, because he's in the hurt locker right now. When you're watching me race and you think, wow, what they're doing is crazy. You think about the fact that Lachlan did three times as far on the bike every day for 30 days and Ned ran four of those marathons. We ain't doing, we really ain't doing much at all. His whole body's all taped up right now, Now, including like he's having shoulder problems just from running.

1:40:07Like this is how incredibly difficult this thing is that he's trying to do. That one is really mind boggling. At least Lachlan can kind of coast every now and then and roll a bit. Not that that dwindles that at all, but for Ned, if he doesn't put one foot in front of the other, he doesn't go anywhere. Brutal. Unreal. All right, buddy. Well, best of luck. Yeah. I'll be cheering for you. And again, thanks for coming and doing this, dude. Cheers. Appreciate it. Peace.

1:40:42That's it for today. Thank you for listening. I truly hope you enjoyed the conversation. To learn more about today's guest, including links and resources related to everything discussed today, visit the episode page at richroll.com where you can find the entire podcast archive, my books, Finding Ultra, Voicing Change in the Plant Power Way, as well as the Plant Power Meal Planner at meals.richroll.com. If you'd like to support the podcast, the easiest and most impactful thing you can do is to subscribe to the show on Apple Podcasts, on Spotify, and on YouTube, and leave a review and or comment.

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1:42:30Thank you.