Ignite Your Evolution: Hakim Tafari is a Master of Mindfulness, Curator of Culture, & The Journeyman of Reinvention

35:39But I was open to the idea because I knew it was going to be life-changing and I knew it was going to take me out of my comfort zone. And doing that and being with folks. Let me tell you about the second day, Rich, when I went into districts that have never seen a black person before. These certain places in Chiapas that have never seen the likes of me before. And I'm looking at them like they're wearing these Sherpa style jackets and rich textiles. And there were different townships that had different ways of how they perceived their cultures. It was at a time where it was like St. Michael. There was a big St.

36:26Michael festival and all these different townships had something going on. so imagine there's a group of 12 foreigners i can't remember how many black bodies but it was this you know you could tell we weren't all from chiapas we weren't all from mexico and these folks i didn't feel worried not one bit and i remember having one of our guides i can't remember our guy's name, but he would run us through these areas and these trails that were so beautiful and so mystic and smells that I had never smelled before. At that point, especially running up the volcano, we ran up a volcano one day and that was an adventure in itself.

37:16but running up that volcano and doing a big sky meditation after the once we reached i think that was really the moment that i was realized i realized i was like yeah this is this is what i meant to see running with 200 folks is beautiful but being on the top of a volcano with six, seven of the locals from that area, along with eight or nine of us from this country. And then Daniel and whoever else was with us being in silence and being above the clouds. And then after that, going into a coffee plantation where it was family owned, picking these berries and having this family, having these kids just laughing and running up on us and wanting to take photographs and locals calling me Joaquin, treating me, bringing me in, cooking me food.

38:24That was when I was like, I'm meant to see the world and this is why I'm here. This is why I've been given the chance that I've been given and to also come back and to show folks who look and sound like me that you can do this too. Have you gone back? Have you brought people back there? I haven't. I haven't had a chance to go back. I need to tap in with Adele Libre and do a reunion because we did Chiapas in 18 and then we did Oaxaca in 19 and then the lockdown happened. But yeah, I mean, Oaxaca was the same thing. You know, being in a teepee on the middle of a river doing meditation and doing qigong was absolutely mind-blowing we did a somewhat called like the trail of tears where it was kind of like how you have the harriet tubman and the underground railroad but it was kind of like for the indigenous mexicans in in oaxaca and it was like a trail that they were um built to escape the conquistadors and we ran this trail that was like 16 miles and you could feel the spirits guiding you as you ran that trail yeah that's heavy i mean how long ago was that oh god that was 1000 year 1000 or something yeah my history's bad you felt the the resonance oh you felt it yeah you felt it you could just look at the cliffs and see you know, this was how they were dodging the conquistadors because they knew that they weren't able to get up on these certain ridges and go through these certain little, and then to end on both occasions, the occasions in the volcano and then running through this kind of trail of tears, we did a Temezcal ceremony, which is where it's kind of, you're in a sweat lodge and you're in the dark and there's like eight or nine of you in this and you're seeing some shit in there.

40:31Yeah. And that was, again, going through things like that changed my life. And then Japan. Oh, I don't know about Japan. You don't know about Japan? Did we talk about this last time? No, we didn't talk about Japan. Japan wasn't even on the radar. Talk to me. Yeah. What happened in Japan? I got to do a campaign with this company called Rourke. And one of my best friends in the world, Travis Weller, who is a pretty well-known trail runner. And this guy named Drew Smith. And for anyone who don't know who Drew Smith is, Drew Smith is one of the most incredible photographers you will ever meet and ever see.

41:21His work is incredible. So he had just did, right before we did Japan, he had just did Jim Morrison's first ascent into some mountains. They were in Pakistan. It was the first ascent since Hillary had passed away. so drew was on that mission and right after that he came with us to japan and originally we were going to do we had an idea or rock had an idea rock and travis had an idea of doing what is called a misogi the original idea of misogi is like a ritual it's like a cold war ritual that spans like a week. And it's kind of like a rite to passage for older spiritual folk. I don't know from what spiritual lineage this came from, but it's basically called Misogi.

42:21And Travis and Nash, who works for Rourke, had this idea of let's do our own style of Misogi. and the idea was to do a misogi that was running 13 peaks within two or three days wow these peaks were the dice head susan traverse which is in the northern part of japan hokkaido where i was just talking to travesty over there and originally when he was like there's a chance that we could do japan or there's a chance that you know rock might send us japan i was like hey man if they send you let me go that's a dream of mine he's like i don't know if you're going to be able to make this one mate this is kind of a dicey one and at the time my friend rio rio lakeshore who's a really well-known trail runner out here black brother really really dope friend of mine um an amazing runner he was supposed to do it with travis because they were like the models for rock But for whatever reason, Rio couldn't go.

43:30So Travis gave me a call one day. You got slotted in. I got slotted in. Yeah. Was it more than you bargained for? How big were these peaks? Well, it was 50-50 where we were gonna do it. So we had an A plan, a B plan, a C plan and a D plan. And we didn't know where it was gonna be snowing because we went last year around the end of May, early June time. So we were hoping to go see the Rose Garden season. We were hoping that it was going to be summer and sun and filled. Well, we get there and it was snow and it was big snow. So us trying to do 13 peaks, it wasn't going to happen. And then there was this a level of danger that I'm not used to.

44:26Travis somewhat and Drew definitely. Drew just came from Pakistan. We did triple the amount. But we knew that we wanted to do it and we wanted to at least attempt to do some type of Misogi. So we ended up not doing the 13 peaks. We ended up doing a few and we ended up climbing Mount Ashidaki, which is the highest peak in Northern Japan. And we ended up doing that. So we didn't end up doing the whole 13 peaks because the conditions were just way too rough. By the time we ended up on top of Mount Ashidaki, it was like 30, 40 mile per hour winds. You could hardly see. but we ended up summiting and it was probably another life-changing experience in my life that I have never experienced or should I say it was an experience that will forever be cemented in both mine and Travis's life Andrew's life because Nash who was originally supposed to come up with us ended up having back spasms so it was only three of us that went up and it was a really really, you know, we were doing some knife ridges.

45:40There were some really technical parts of that mountain that we climbed, but I ended up doing it and ended up summiting in it. It was just one of the most powerful experiences that I've ever, ever, ever had in my life. And then to be in Japan, to be in the home of Zen, to be, you know, there was just so many things, but Japan was. but tell me more about the life-changing piece like you brought it up and your eyes lit up there was something about this that seems to have something to do with more than just the degree of difficulty in the cold and the fact that was in japan like why was it so life transformative there was a brotherhood between the group of going up there there was something that was i got to see the world in a way that i had never ever seen before vast vast peaks and mountains and then to be in a space where i didn't believe myself that i could do it and then to do it and then to look at the level of what I did, I really started thinking about my childhood and how I was raised and thinking about my parents and thinking about, you know, just different ancestors who had never, who wouldn't have even dreamed of being in the space.

47:11And then there was one time where me and Travis had this moment where I looked at him and he looked at me and he said, are you okay? and the winds were coming and it was like when you're on some mountains and you can't you don't see anything when you're looking down and i remember looking at him and it was like one of those moments where if we were going to stop we needed to stop because there was no turning back and i looked at him and i was and i don't even think i said anything i just said i'm good let's And I think for me, there was something so... When we made that summit, I cried in a way that I never cried before.

48:04And just thinking about it now, it really... You know, several years back, I was like, man, I was in a position where I didn't think that I would ever have opportunity to see this type of thing in my life. I was in a position where I was like, I couldn't see, I couldn't see, you know, that I couldn't see a foot in front of me. and here I was looking at these mountains and these clouds and keep in mind right before we made the summit, this couple who wore this denim.

48:49Marks right by you. Just in case you're getting a little, you know, digging your britches, buddy. and we were laughing like how the fuck did they do this and we're like this is not everest but um it just brought me to a place where i was like there are certain things in your life that you were meant to see that you were meant to do and you were meant to be here and i have the saying that it's already been written in the tapestry of the universe we're just too blind sometimes to see it and we are sometimes too ignorant to see it and i got to see my life in 4k in front of me and me and travis hugged each other as when we made that summer and it was just like and drew came in and it was just one of those moments that it made me believe in the human existence like if i could take somebody from compton if i could take somebody from brixton if i could take somebody from hackney if i could take somebody from idaho who has never seen something like this i would do it in a heartbeat just for them to get at that moment to see life in its fullness and in this totality.

50:20It's also a punctuation mark on this evolving relationship with reinvention that you have. Like literally and symbolically, when you climb a mountain, you stand at the top and you look down and reflect upon where you were and how you got to where you are, right? And so I have to believe on some level like that experience is gonna lend to some reflection on your own life. You mentioned like you were thinking about your past. I mean, you've kind of weathered and undergone lots of changes over the course of your life. And you could say, well, there was this transformation and that transformation.

51:03I mean, in truth, it's just, it's a constant process of becoming and unfoldment that gets occasional punctuation marks that people can point to, but a heightened experience like that is gonna kind of conjure that. And the emotion around it is like valuing yourself for having trodden that difficult path. Yeah, yeah. It's like an act of self-honoring. It really is. And in turn, it was a Misogi. It really was a Misogi. It was a trial. It was a certain trial, not by fire, but it was a trial because of what it took to get to that point, what it took to get from Sapporo to Hokkaido, to weathering what Nash was going through, not knowing if we were going to make it, not knowing how far we were going to make it, you know, stopping at the hut and then making, you know, they had several huts where you can sleep, you know, at night, you know, or, you know, just rest up.

52:12And I just, you know, remembering being at the hut and we all having that conversation like, okay, you know, it's like make or break. Do we go further? Do we go try to do this? Because if we're going to do this in two days, this is what it's going to look like tonight. This is what it's going to look like tomorrow. Boom, boom, boom. And then to make the decision to just do what we did. and you know there was one thought that the one part of the story that i have to say is that coming up i was you know oh my god i don't know how i'm going to climb back down and you know this coming up here is hard enough coming back down how the hell am i going to do that and And I just remember coming back down and feeling like the Hakim when I was 10 years old at Christchurch Park in Ipswich, when it would snow and us going down the sledge, that's how I felt coming down those big effing mountains, sliding down.

53:18I'd never experienced a tree well. Do you know what a tree well is? Mm-mm. So a tree well is when there's ice in the tree, there's like a certain hole that is protected, that protects the tree. And it's pretty shallow. So if you're walking, like your whole leg will just collapse in that. So I wasn't experienced in tree wells and I didn't know how often they came about going down. I was literally putting my foot in a tree well, every other foot. We were laughing so hard that it was like three kids in like climbing down a sledge, you know, on a sledge, but we were literally, you know, had our spikes on our hiking boots and sliding down this.

54:10Like we were 10, 11 years old. Yeah. Just like giddy, three of us. And if you could tell that kid in Ipswich or that young guy who was cruising around Austin or the broken man who, you know, stumbled into a Buddhist temple in Orlando, that, you know, this is what you would be doing and the decision you were gonna have to make is whether you were gonna continue to the top or turn around, like, that would have blown any of those three young Huggins' minds, right? Like, so. You don't even know, mate. Yeah. You know what I mean? So it is this, yeah, it's this punctuation mark on like a life that is one of, one in which you've worked very hard to become the person that you are today.

55:00And one that you've also are in a position to enjoy because you've let it all go. And it's like this tension between surrender and also honoring yourself because you did put in a lot of work to make it happen. It's the conundrum at the heart of, you know, this type of spiritual practice. You make it sound so beautiful, Rich. You really do. I just want you to tell the story. But I guess I'm sort of saying that because I wanna understand the nature of change and the process of reinvention. You know, if there is like a theme that recurs the most on this show. It's like, how do you change? How do you become a better person physically, mentally, emotionally, and spiritually?

55:52And there is no one path. And there's also like no right or wrong answer. And sometimes these ways conflict with each other, they contradict each other, which makes it confusing because people just wanna know like, Well, just tell me what to do and I'll do it. And life has a different way, you know? And so I would imagine people ask you all the time, like, how did you go from that guy to this guy to now this guy? Like, what are the steps that you undertook or when you reflect on that and are in a position to answer that question for somebody, how do you think about that and respond? Well, it's a twofold.

56:38One, my partner, Melinda, who has been really a catalyst in this change because I hadn't really been in a relationship where I had a partner who really fully believed in what I had and could do and never really fought me on it. she has always had an amazing ability of being my biggest cheerleader my manager she'll give me critique when i need it or when i don't need it but what was really evident was that i had never experienced a type of love like that before and that love was really i felt safe i felt safe going into this run culture. I felt safe going back into DJing. I felt safe teaching Tai Chi and Qigong again.

57:46You know, she was the one who said, start teaching Tai Chi and Qigong again. And I started teaching in the backyard. 7 years later, I have a residency at the Line Hotel. She was the one who was like, go to the mountain and do this summit. Let's go do it. It was the summit that I did with Conrad Anker that changed my life. So there was coming to LA. There was all these things. She didn't give me a chance to doubt myself. She was always like, this is what you need to do. So finding somebody like Melinda was really key and pivotal. because she gave me a way to find, she gave me the steps in order to find my own inner liberation, to find my freedom.

58:36And she gave me permission. If I was going to fumble or fuck up, or she wasn't going to be there to judge me, she was going to be there to hold my hand and say, okay, let's get up and try it again. So that was a big catalyst. Finding somebody who really, truly loved me and loved me in my truest, rawest state. and that was really big that was so big and we had some really hard times in that first year when i came from orlando to la and um it was really really hard and she believed in me and really trusted me and we and still continue to work together in therapy which is a segue into therapy therapy you know i went 40 something years of not having one therapy session and i went into therapy and had couples therapy and then had my own therapist and then you know i just had therapy with with melinda today and therapy like it gave me a chance to look at myself and past traumas um stuff with my parents stuff with my kids you know it just really forced me no i don't want to use the word force it gave me a chance to really look at these things that i had never ever looked at because i put them in the deepest recesses in my mind or put them in the deepest recesses in my body and i didn't want to touch them anymore and these therapists brought them back out and shout out to Denae who's our therapist right now.

1:00:18Denae is incredible in the aspect of really showing us like, no, you were here to show Hakim how to do this. No, you were here, Melinda, to show. So therapy has been really a game changer for me. And, you know, there's a really big misnomer or this really big thing within, you know, the black community around therapy. and I don't need therapy. And I was one of those that's like, I don't need therapy. What do I need therapy for? Therapy is some white shit. That ain't me. Everyone needs therapy. I can honestly say anyone and everyone needs therapy to the point that I've, you know, talked to my kids about therapy.

1:01:01You know, it's really been one of those things that if I had the opportunity to talk to these young Hakims, I would say jump into therapy. you know had i known about therapy even when i was at whole foods and i had it and i had access to it i didn't even use it because i was just i don't need it and it took me getting to a certain point and trusting melinda and trusting the process in being like that really was something that i needed and that's why you know we talk about phil phil stutz and i just want to give that man the X amount of flowers because I watched that and I cried like a baby because it brought so many things and it made me look at my life in so many different ways that therapy, anyone and everyone should do it.

1:01:54I can't champion it enough. Therapy was this game changer. That was not the answer that I thought you were going to give. It's so interesting. I like lob this all in your direction about the driving forces of reinvention. And your answer was a partner who loved you unconditionally and was able to see your highest self or the potential of your highest self and was in support of that blooming in you, right? And then therapy, because you're the Zen Buddhist guy who teaches Qigong and meditation and mindfulness. So I was preparing myself for a good dose of, you know, that side of the equation. You know, I'll tell you because, and a lot of people think that, but here's the thing, meditation can't save you.

1:02:47It's also not therapy. And it's not therapy. It's not gonna heal your childhood trauma or absolve you of your resentments. And it isn't, and it isn't. And you know what? People know that. People know that I really lean on meditation and I really lean on, you know, my Buddhist practice. But there's more than that. And I think, no, let me not say that. I don't think I know that in these years of doing what I've done and being where I've been, And a lot of it was I had to fight imposter syndrome because I didn't feel like I could be, I didn't feel like I was meant to be in Japan. I didn't feel like I was meant to be in Chiapas or I didn't feel that I should be at the outside festival.

1:03:41Or I had to fight for so many years, this imposter syndrome of stuff that I've been doing for 20, 30 years and still not believing. so the minute that somebody said i actually do believe in you i actually do think that you are somebody who could really change the climate of the world and change the climate of how you see this that was a game changer because you're not going to find that being in the vipassana sitting seven eight days in silence you're going to find something but you also need people in your corner who are gonna really push and support you. Just like you have your wife. It's like you have your partner.

1:04:25That's like you have certain friends who are gonna really lobby and push and really, you know. And at the end of the day, the person that I would always come to is my partner. And I have my alter and I have my partner and I have my kids. And those are the ones who really have really brought me into the space that I'm into right now. Buddha, of course, Buddha is always going to be there. And the Vipassana practice of being in silence and being in those spaces where I have the privilege to go away to be in silence is amazing. But there's something more than that. And I think, you know, as I said, as somebody who came up, i always tried to be you know i had immigrant parents from jamaica who didn't have anything so growing up they were like you have to be this we need you to be this you got to be the one who goes to college you got to be the one who you know be the breadwinner you got it we want you to be have a house we want you so there was a lot of pressure and i had to fit these moles and had to fit these things.

1:05:41And then, as I said, when I got to that stage where I thought I lost everything and boom, boom, boom, I had to rebuild myself back up. I had to reinvent, as you said, you know, the reinvention. And that's when I, you know, really homed in on what is reinvention? How do you reinvent? How do you reinterpret or redesign and reconfigure? You have to to break shit down you have to dismount you have to destroy old misnomers you have to do the destroying in order to build what you need to build and i destroyed a lot of old i destroyed a lot of the old legacies a lot of the old stories and i moved to la and i had somebody who had my back in a way that i never had before more so than my parents more so than and and and i shouldn't say more so than my parents because my parents i love my parents but i tell the story that my parents didn't tell me that they loved me until i was 25 you know i mean i didn't get that so having a woman telling me that i'm going to support you and i got your back unconditionally and we're going to make it and you are way destined to do more than this let's try this out let's try this out let's try this out it's like a vegan gumbo putting the vipassian is putting that woman putting you know the the experiences and if i was to whisk that vegan gumbo together that is how hakim is where he's at yeah that was that was very elegantly beautifully put

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1:09:08I think that what maybe got lost in your account or in the way you just described your story is the fact that you had to put in the work to become the person who was worthy of being with someone like Melinda, right? So it's not like, oh, you just lucked into it. There was a lot of inner work that was occurring prior to that relationship, right? For sure. So you're shouldered with all this responsibility and expectation. So what do you do? You go out into the world and you say, fuck that. And you do what you want and you blow the whole thing up, right? Because on some level there's resentment or some unhealed trauma of not feeling, you know, like love was unconditional in your house.

1:09:58and not having your emotional needs met essentially, right? Which sets you on a certain trajectory until you crash and burn, right? But you can't be a phoenix until there's a big fat fire, right? So you gotta do that. And then you start throwing in the ingredients into the gumbo, right? And when you're doing it, you don't know what you're doing or where it's gonna head or why you're even doing it, but there's nothing else to do. because everything else has disappeared, right? And you're kind of with yourself, forced to meet yourself maybe for the very first time as you truly are. And that's scary and uncertain, but beautiful also, right?

1:10:45It creates this situation of receptivity where suddenly you are open to things you weren't before because your options have been taken away from you. Yeah. And I think that's why now I do all this stuff. So the question then becomes for me, because this is my dilemma, then when everything's clicking and everything's good, how do you stay connected to that? Because for me, I just get caught up in my own mind and I take my self-will back and it becomes just a little bit harder to do that surrender thing, because I got shit going on. I gotta call that guy and I got people coming to the studio and it's all good and it's rocking, right?

1:11:37That's a recipe for disaster because now you think once again, that you're the big boss in control and you're basically setting yourself up for another reckoning. So staying connected to what got you to that place I think is essential, but also becomes more challenging when your life kind of falls back into place or you are able to like repair that wreckage and get to a place where you do feel good in your own skin and like you're on the right path. The work doesn't stop. I mean, that's why I still do therapy. But you're very committed. Like you, it is like number one, and you get up, you have your whole routine.

1:12:26I do. I mean, this is non-negotiable, you know what I mean? And I would say that I am always negotiating it. Because I've been in a place where there was no negotiation. Right, but now things are chill, right? This is my question, this is what I'm saying. So now like the pressure's off, right? Yeah. So how do you maintain that commitment? it like how do you stay connected to the essentialism of it as like your number one priority i have role models well i wouldn't call them role models like i have folks who i greatly admire who somewhat like me have been through a journey and have been through certain things in order to get them where they are now.

1:13:22And I also recognize when I'm not getting any younger, the value that I have for my body and my heart mind, I value it so much more now. so you know i don't take it for granted yeah it's a it's a routine for me like i get up in the morning work out go run drink my 100 gallons of green tea like you know all these things that i'm used to but here's one thing i put into you i have a lot of friends when i look at their igs they're like obituary accounts. So many friends and acquaintances have died in these last couple of years that I've seen. This guy died, this person died, this person died. And I realized my life can be taken just like that.

1:14:35so in the aspect of being present as much as i can in every moment in any situation in every situation and looking at the beauty in those situations i try to without sounding kumbaya and rose tainted glasses because shit ain't gonna be like that all the while but for the most part I'm thankful that I have the ability to get up and do what I do every morning to get two, three hours to work out, to paint Enzo's, to meditate, to have the opportunity to go to spirit rock, teach mindful movement, to go to the outside festival, to go to this festival, to go DJ, to do sound baths, to do It took a level of work, but trusting in myself to know that this feels really good.

1:15:40And I love where I'm at right now. And I knew what it was to be in this position and that I don't ever want to be in this position ever again. And I like what it is to be here. So let me just do what I can to be the best human being that I can, to be the best partner that I can, to be the best father that I can, and to be the best person that I can show up to whoever it is, whether I know you, whether I've met you for the first time or whether I've known you for years.

1:16:16Because it's just how I've been. And again, I just remember that time where I might not have been on this earth, but I understand what has been written in the tapestry of the universe and I love what has been written. And I understand that there are new stories that are being written, whether I know it or not. And I'm just really, just really just being present with it and enjoying it and seeing what comes because this has just been one of those years that has just blown my mind being in paris being in costa rica being in you know uh been around yeah i've been around and it's this the opportunities the opportunities i was just telling somebody just the other day i have an innate ability and i don't know how it is i was just in London and Paris and I was with some of the heaviest, some of the most heavyweight DJs in the world.

1:17:23Then I'm at the outside festival and I'm with some of the most pivotal people within the black, brown, indigenous spaces and within the outside spaces. I'm in London where I just ran a marathon and I'm hanging with every heavy hitter in every run crew how is it that i'm in these spaces i don't know but i give thanks and i don't take it lightly and i recognize the privilege that i have so you know i want to be as authentic and as true to anyone and everyone that i come into contact with i also want to be a service to the folks that i can that's why i love doing things like with the youth and taking them into the mountains and you know trying to work on getting into the prison systems and doing work like my friend vinnie ferraro and um my friend oscar medina and doing things like teaching the brahma vaharas uh you know teaching people how to love and how to find them so these are the things and And yeah, I'm just, I don't take it lightly that I'm here in this spot talking to Rich Roll having this.

1:18:45Well, there's a humility in your voice. Like you're very connected to your humility and it feels like that helps to keep you grounded. You know, Hawk's not in charge. All these players that you're meeting in all these different places and all these exotic locations that you've traveled to, you're not taking credit for that. Like you're honoring yourself, but you're also appreciating that greater forces are at play. That's what I'm hearing in your voice. For sure. Yeah. For sure. It's all divinity, isn't it? On some level. It is, it is, it is. And I look at myself as being a spiritual being, living a human existence.

1:19:33And then I know there's this whole, are you a human being living a spiritual experience or are you a spiritual being living a human experience? You know, I honestly look at myself as a spiritual being living a human existence and really just taking it one step at a time, but really being present with it, being observant of it and being humble with it. And knowing that my ancestors put me in this position for a certain reason. I understand the platforms that I have. I understand the leverage I have. I understand the privileges that I have. But I also understand that the ancestors put me in this position.

1:20:15And I heed the words of the ancestors. And I really, really don't want to upset the ancestors. I want to be my ancestors' wildest dreams. You know how they say, you kind of hear what you need to hear. You know, it's like, I needed to hear this today. It is my dilemma. Like I have so much to be grateful for and I'm hyper aware of this incredible life that I get to live. It's not like it doesn't elude me. Like I'm fully present in this miracle that I know I didn't create, but I get caught up in the day and things are happening. And it's very easy for me to disconnect from that or lose sight of it.

1:21:10Like I'm not present. And I know the antidote, the solution is more meditation, right, more mindfulness. There's all these things it's like, but those are the moments where I'm like, I don't do it. It's like, it's that joke, like if you're too busy to meditate, then you need to meditate twice as long, that idea. But when you're in the moment, it's very hard to course correct, you know? And so I think having hard and fast rules around what these practices are, are the guardrails that I'm lacking because I negotiate with myself around them too much. And that allows me to make excuses. And every time I do that, I put distance between myself and the better version of myself who is more grateful, more present, more aware, more honoring, all of those things that I can be, have been, know how to be, but need to do a better job of making sure that that's the first thing and not the 10th thing on the to do list, right?

1:22:19Yeah. It's priorities. And those inner priorities, the inner work, or what do they call it? The shadow work. What does that look like for you? the shadow work for me is a lot of deep deep reflections a lot of a lot of when i get up in the morning and going down to my studio and putting some pharaoh saunders on or putting some john coltrane on and and thinking, really having a deep meditation like, what are you trying to do? What does it look like for you? What are you trying to do today? What are you trying to do at this moment? How is it looking for you? And having those deep internal, having two older sisters and not really being, being more of an only child, you tend to think a lot.

1:23:30You tend to overanalyze. You tend to, you know. And sometimes you tend to, we have the saying in Buddhism called Papancha, where you make up these stories in your head that may not necessarily be true, but you have these stories in your head. Usually not. They're usually not. I think I just really come to a point in my life where I just really know and trust what I want now. And I just really have deep conversations with myself that I'm not afraid to have. I'm not afraid to check myself. I'm not afraid to have those looks in the mirror internally and be like, nah, bro, you're kind of fucking up.

1:24:18You need to kind of step it up a little bit here or you need to maybe just kind of turn it down a notch. Having those internal conversations, which I have a lot, that's all I've ever known. So I do a lot of internal work. The trick with that though, is not to fall into the trap of self-loathing, right? I mean, you could just flog yourself. You should have done that, you should be better. What are you doing that again? Well, that's where the Brahma Vahara's come in. These are two different things, Things like owning your shit and holding yourself to account, but not coming from a place of guilt or shame.

1:24:55Exactly. Coming from a place of honoring yourself because you know you can be better. And you can, yeah, exactly. And that's where the Brahma Vahara is coming. That's where the love and kindness, the joy, the compassion, the equanimity. And equanimity is really, really big. equanimity, having a spiritual authority about yourself, knowing what makes you tick spiritually is something that is really big for me and I think was really grounding for me. I know that I'm trying to live a certain lifestyle. I know that I'm trying to be a certain way. I know that I need that loving kindness for myself. I need that compassion for myself.

1:25:46I need to give myself grace. I talk to countless clients who call me and say, I don't know how to have grace for myself. I don't know how to have compassion for myself. Those years of having to find myself, I had to learn how to give myself grace. I had to learn how to love myself again, how to be kind to myself again. And all of that brought me to a certain equanimity, but a certain autonomy. Like I know this is how I am. And this is how I structure myself. And if I want to be a better person, this is what I need to do to be that better person. I need to meditate. I need to talk to my partner a little bit better.

1:26:35I need to be a little bit more interactive with my son. I need to talk to Naya. I need to talk to Leia. I need to do this with Isla a little bit. All these things come into play. and i'm not afraid to look at myself and have those hard conversations and i'm not afraid to love myself and give myself grace and compassion there is a middle path to everything and i think that's the key point is really knowing how to balance and structure that because if you get trapped in the self-loathing the self-hate the the self-doubt that's going to lead you down a a hard road. And honestly, that's this dukkha.

1:27:14That's this dukkha. That's this straight up dukkha, doubting self, fearing, not knowing. It's scary not knowing what's going to happen. It's scary not knowing what's going to happen tomorrow or what's going to happen the next day. There's doubt. All these things, you know, in Buddhist term, we call that dukkha. All these Dukas come up, but I've been training hard like I was an Olympic athlete in how to battle Dukas. I'm on my Jesse Owens type business. You know what I mean? I'm on my Jack of Joy and the Cursey type business where I'm not trying to let Dukas dictate my life because Dukas dictated my life for so many years that I'm not letting Dukas run my life anymore.

1:28:02So I'm now training, just like I tell my students with Tai Chi, when you do certain movements, you do it over and over and over again because it becomes muscle memory. So the things that I do, getting up, saging myself, blighting the incense, doing my ice baths, doing, you know, listening to spiritual jazz instead of some rah-rah business to soothe my nervous system, finding ways to restructure and re-soothe my nervous system. you know going on a run going on a nice long run and you know doing a little micro dose and doing a little adventure you know i mean this is all the things that i do is to put myself in a position where i can keep things in balance and keep things in check and not have to let duke come in and tell me oh man you should be worried you should be worried about paying for that or how you're to get to that when i knew i was going to england to run a marathon old me would have been freaking out about how much i got to pay for this ticket and how much i got to pay for that ticket how am i going to get this airbnb and all that i didn't i didn't worry about it i knew i was going to have a fun time i knew we were going to have a fun time in paris i knew we were going to have a fun time you know boom boom boom everything works out the way it needs to work out and i know it sounds cliche and i know it's like because you can't let just the spirit just take everything but you have You have to have a verified faith in your spirituality in order to move and navigate through the world the way that I move.

1:29:38I understand there's a spiritual urgence, but as I said, if we come back to the four Brahma Vaharas, there's a thing within that equanimity where I know I'm good, I'm good. Preach it. Preach it, man. That was amazing. How do you think about the intersection between movement running, mindfulness and spirituality? Because one thing I've learned is obviously there's a deep spiritual connection by just simply being in nature. And there's an active meditation piece to running in silence yourself in nature, but meditation formally defined is a different thing. And I think for many years, I sort of thought, well, I don't need to meditate because my meditation is running.

1:30:37And I've learned through practice that that is not true, that my formal meditation practices is actually quite qualitatively different from the mindfulness benefits that I get from running. but I think it's important not to confuse them. But I'm interested in how you think about this intersection. Yeah, it's really important because I think they're all part of the same kind of, they're all part of the same puzzle in the aspect of, here's an example. I had an injury not so long back where I really ripped my ankle up. I don't know, grade three, grade four. I don't know how they grade it, but it was a pretty, pretty serious one.

1:31:28And I was on crutches. And I remember one of my clients asked me, how are you taking that? Because I know that you're really into running and you're really into, you know, running is a piece for you. So now that you've not got that running, how are you taking it? How are you? And honestly, it was one of the first times that I actually loved having that injury. because it forced me to do other things. It forced me to get on the road. It forced me to do the assault bike. It forced me to walk, slow walk. It forced me to think about my body in a way that I never thought about before. And I was good with it.

1:32:19And the pieces of that was that I got into my meditation practice even more at that point. And I guess the meditation practice for me was just a validation to say, you're okay. You're really good. You're okay. To sink into the breath and sink into the logic of why you're doing this and why it feels good at this moment in time. And I leaned on that. And then I leaned on to Qigong. And I realized that, you know, certain movements are going to really help with the pain. Certain movements are going to really help with the movement of the chi and the blood flow in the foot. and so i look at it again if we're looking at it as as a dish i look at it as a great salad and then the music and then when you add music um as part of really soothing the nervous system really soothing you know different parts of the brain different parts of the mind when you add all these things together, you look at the intersection, they all are synergistic within each other.

1:33:37People like to separate them as their own thing, but they all work as a grand unit. And if we really look into all these things, the mindfulness, the running, the stretching, the eating the music all of that goes hand in hand going out to run to feel that liberation uh even you know we talk about toby and the plunge you know there is something very restorative and very mindful about putting the body through that right and then going from that into the sauna and then just adding the mindful piece or the meditation piece. Adding all of these, these are all restorative. These are all restorative acts.

1:34:35They are also all radical acts too. And when you look at the radical nature of running, when you look at the radical nature of being mindful, When you look at the radical nature of sitting in silence for 30 or 40 minutes, you realize that it's really part of a beautiful silence. And really they all go hand in hand. When I meditate and then when I put the Tai Chi, the Tai Chi is a mindful movement. The Qigong is a mindful movement. The running is a mindful movement. All of those work hand in hand. And then the meditation piece is really kind of like the NOS. It's really like the fuel injection.

1:35:25Because when you get to meditate, you really get to tune in with your body and your spirit and your inner psyche and your inner self in 4K. There's no running away from it. When you really dig deep, you're looking at shit in 4K. so now you take those elements and you put those elements within the running and you go out in nature yes it's not a meditation but there are elements of that meditative practice in it the tai chi the qigong when you have a group of people or even by yourself but if you have a group of people and you you just listen to 10 or 20 people breathing synergistically there is something so harmonious and so auspicious about that and then again with music music has a way of bringing people together in a way that is very harmonious and very liberating when people dance and when people really dance they're letting out their inner soul you see it you see it you go to a festival you see certain folks dancing and this they're letting that inhibitions go they're getting free so in a way these all these things are a way of showing you how to find true sense of liberation and inner freedom i never thought I thought about the through line between all of these practices from music to Tai Chi to meditate, like the consistent theme being these tools to not only tuned the individual, but tune the collective.

1:37:27How music gets everybody on the same frequency in the way that like, that's what Tai Chi is doing. This is like the same thing. in certain ways. Yeah. Or the run club. Or the run crew. Yes. There's a certain frequency when everyone's doing the scoop and everyone's doing their stretches and then you move and then you hear that collected breath. There's something powerful about that. There's something so organic about that. It's like when you're watching a flock of birds or you're watching elephants running together or you're seeing a herd of sheep together. There's a certain mystic energy about that.

1:38:16So then again, as I said, you look at that salad and you look at that intersection of all of those. They all fit. They all fit. And they fit very beautifully if you're able to just be open to see how compatible layout. Before you can enjoy that salad though, you gotta throw a few ingredients into the vegan gumbo, right? Yeah, you do. Now you're gonna look at that. Let it simmer to mix the metaphors here. Yeah. Speaking of run crews, you mentioned that you were in London, you ran the London marathon. Yeah. And you got to spend some time with your boy, Charlie Dark. Oh. I've only met him once. I met him at the Strava event, not this past year, the year before.

1:39:09And I just think he's, that guy's amazing. And then I read your Instagram caption to that photo that you posted the two of you together. I was like, these guys must know each other. And sure enough, you hadn't met until 2018, but you were stalking him in the early aughts, right? Yeah, yeah, I think. And he became like this mentor to you or like a sort of lighthouse. Yeah, for sure. And have him tell you, he was like. Well, explain to people who this guy is for people that don't know. So Charlie Dark is, I mean, what can you say about this guy? Charlie Dark is a world renowned DJ. I mean, a world-renowned DJ.

1:39:57He was part of a group called Attica Blues, who were a really big group in the early 90s on Ninja Tune, or Mo Wax, one of the two. He got into running. And this was around 2010, 2011. And he, along with some individuals, Mike Sace from New York, Cedric Hernandez from New York, and then there were some other cats from Japan. and Seoul. And they were originally, I would say they were the originators of what we see today as run crew culture. And Charlie has a crew called Run Them Crew in London. And along with bridge runners of new york afe prrc in seoul uh berlin braves the craft runners in um berlin and germany and so many other crews they formed this thing called bridge the gap and it was a way of getting all these different runners of somewhat style and color and etiquette together and you You know, we wouldn't have Ron Crew Culture if it wasn't for the likes of Charlie.

1:41:16And over the years, Charlie has been one of those big spokespeople about running for the love of running. He's a global Lululemon ambassador. He has worked for Nike. He has worked for Asics. He has worked for all these top brands within Ron Crew Culture. so many folks have come to him as mentors or mentees within Run Crew, within brand work. He has given so many synopsis on how to work with brands because he's been doing it since the dawn of time. And then on top of that, he's become a yoga teacher. I didn't know that. Yeah, oh yeah. He's become a yoga teacher. He is a great speaker. one of the greatest speakers i mean i heard him in london i mean you want to talk about turning uh bread in the wine or turning you know turning base metals in the gold charlie can do that i saw charlie speak to 150 200 people i mean you would think he was moses the way he talks i mean he He really has a way of inspiring folks.

1:42:33He's inspired folks from all over the world. You know, he's talked about running for mental health. He'll tell you he's seen folks die from not being supported through mental health within his own run crew. And he's been a really big supporter on running and how running is really big for mental health. and for the youth. He's led youth programs that have now led to run them, swim them, swim them crew. So many different facets. So many crews have come out of Charlie's wheelhouse. I mean, I could go on and on, but Charlie has been this like, Charlie is in what we call a triple OG, more so than an OG is a triple OG.

1:43:22And I was stalking him from like 2013 we met in 2018 and somebody who I regard as a mentor and my Yoda, he's basically my Yoda. And yeah, the relationship we have is this incredible. Other than setting an example for you to follow, what was his influence? Like what was his counsel or advice to you? His key thing for me, especially since of late was carve my lane, know your lane and carve it. He gave me much like Melinda. If Melinda was in a male form, I would say it would be Charlie because Charlie really gave me permission, like a blessing, like if Kulhuk gave - Go forth son and prosper. Yeah.

1:44:22He was like, this is what you're meant to do. I mean, when I was dabbling with the Tai Chi and Qigong, he was the one who was like, you need to make this bigger. He was the one who was really big with me teaching mindfulness to runners, was really, really big about it and was like, no one's doing it. You're carving yourself our own lane. even with me coming back out and DJing he was like giving me pointers on what to do on how to attack it like you need to do this this is how you can do this carve your own lane and really has been telling me how to innovate what I'm doing in a way that no one else has done and as I said But if I could surmise it, I feel like I'm Luke in the Dagobah system with the Yoda.

1:45:14And how Yoda was in the Dagobah system when Luke had to lift the X-wing fighter, you know, doing a handstand is kind of like how I feel with Charlie and how I'm maneuvering with showing up in the world. That's like, this is how you treat people. This is how you act towards people. This is how you leave a legacy. One of the things that I saw in 2018 when I met Charlie was we were at a Bridge the Gap event in the Bronx. And there was probably about 300 of us out there in the Bronx of all different crews sounding like the Warriors. And it literally was. And I remember when Charlie came up and walked through, you would think it was Yoda.

1:46:05I mean, the amount of respect that that guy got, you know what I mean? Like you hear stories of like when Malcolm walked in the Audubon or when, you know, Martin talked that Selma, you know, you hear these mythological stories of these great human individuals that are just able to speak to people in a way that you've never heard before. Dalai Lama you've met Dalai Lama so you know there's certain individuals like that Charlie is one of those people and as I said I just remember seeing him move and the way he moved and one of the things that he taught me is you have to carry yourself in a certain way you have to carry yourself in a certain way that people will respect you people would admire you people will but you gotta show up Don't show up like you're holier than them, like you're bigger than them, like you've got something.

1:47:11Come as a human being. Come as humble as you are, but know that you are the shit in a certain way, in certain form. And this was, to me, coming in 2018, I wasn't really who I was in the Ron Kru culture. I was really a no one. But he made me feel bigger than I really was. and I never forget that. And then for him to be somebody who I looked up to and was like, no, you're my peer. You're my peer. Yeah, I got a little bit more years on you, but you're my peer. And then he told me that I was there for him in a part of his life that I didn't know that I helped him. And hear him sharing that vulnerability and that human aspect, because you meet certain folks and they're like, they're douches.

1:48:08It doesn't be plain out simple. They're really like on a level. They look like they're powerful and they look superhuman and then you meet them and you're like, man, that's that person. Charlie gave me the antithesis of that to where I was like, I want to be like him. When I step into a room, I want that type of respect. I want to be held in that same type of adoration. And I just started studying how he moved and would have talks with him. And we would just, you know, we have each other on WhatsApp and I would just call him and I'd just ask him for information. And he would give me, you know, whenever I'd gone around on Instagram, he'd be like, you don't need to do that.

1:48:54What's that for? And if Melinda showed me how to soften my heart, in another way. Charlie showed me how to soften my heart in another way. Like I learned how I didn't have to be militant all the while. I didn't have to be Captain Revolutionary all the time. You remember when Malcolm went to Mecca and he came back? Malcolm's heart softened. He was still radical, but he wasn't like kill whitey and did it because he had broken bread with every color under the rainbow when he went to do his harsh talking to charlie and really reasoning and building and really just learning how to maneuver in life as a person and an individual as a leader was much like me going to Mecca and doing my hajj.

1:50:03Wow. It made me see things in such a bigger picture. That's a beautiful gift that he gave you. For sure. I gotta get that guy on the show. You really, really do. You really, really do. I mean - His energy is definitely infectious. There was a lot about what you just shared though that I didn't know. You know, when I tell you - Special cat. Yeah, special cat. And I mean, he's worked with a lot of heavy hitters. He's been burned by a lot of heavy hitters. He's been burned by a lot of brands. And the guy is Sir Charlie Dark's OBE now. So I don't know if any of you folks know what OBE and MBE is. Those are awarded to you from the queen.

1:50:48The king now. The king now. The king now. Did he get it from the king or the queen? Well, he got it from the queen. He did. He got it from the queen. He's had it for a minute. Yeah, he's had it for a minute. So he's Dr. Docs and he got a honorary doctorate too. Order of the British Empire. Exactly. Well, speaking of the DJ piece, I mean, he also kind of inspired you to get in front on this and now you've got this radio show, like this My Analyze. What is this? What is going on with this like YouTube live stream? Yeah. DJ like residency that you have right now? Well, I have a radio show, 101.5 FM, Boyle Heights, Community Arts Conservatory.

1:51:33But my analog journal was really a big deal. And Charlie, if you go on there, you'll see a Charlie episode. But these folks have a YouTube station and they have DJs from all over the world, all over the country. And it's a place in Hackney in London. Oh, wow. They have this live stream and they have all different music. They have Irish folk, they have funk, they have African boogie, they have Mexican psych, all different types. And they have over a million 0.5 subscribers. Yeah, it's a big channel. It's a big channel. And it's a beautiful set. And basically you just do a set, right? You just do a set.

1:52:11And you do what you want. Yeah. And then it's just up there and available. So here's where Charlie comes in again, another Charlie story. So I told him that I was gonna start DJing And I really, you know, I was really gunning for like Dub Lab or NTS or Lock Radios. Those are underground radio stations. But obviously no one's heard of me. I was new. No one really. And Charlie just kept saying to me, stay the course. Trust the process. Because I have a different niche with my music. My music isn't the, you know, one, I still play vinyl records. and two, my main bag is like spiritual jazz, jazz fusion.

1:52:54Yeah, you're like slipping in spiritual monologues into like jazz riffs and stuff. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I have a different niche and he was like, perfect. Again, you've got your own lane. Stick with that lane and keep with it. And he gave me the trust. He was like, people need that right now. So you need to do it. And there's gonna be ways you can do it. And he would give me little tips and he would say, do that, do this. I said, I want to do a radio show. Two weeks later, I got a radio show. You're a powerful manifester. You got Mr. Miyagi telling you to wax on, wax off over here. Yeah. And then, and then, and then I made a mix, I made a mix.

1:53:37And, you know, again, when you don't get opportunities, you make your opportunities. And I, and I had an opportunity. I saw this, my analog journal, he did it and I saw him do it. And it was incredible. and I was just like you know what let me send them let me send them out an email I'm going out there to do the marathon let me just try and see what happens if they say no I'm good with it but they didn't say no and they were like well can you come in and and that was like two months and I was like no I can't come I can't come until the marathon and um lo and behold I got a bib for the London Marathon at the age of 50, which was so kismet because two years ago or a year ago, I had a conversation with one of my training partners, Jimmy.

1:54:26We were running the LA Marathon shakeout. I was doing a shakeout run where I was leading a meditation and we had a conversation. I was like, yeah, I would love to do London when I become 50. And I didn't know if it was gonna happen and then it happened and i got a bit so what do you make of all that

1:54:51you know i mean so i got to do london when i was 50 and then i called him and i oh i emailed him i was like hey um i can't do it in two months but i can come and do it when i come and when i run london and i end up doing it and the rest is history beautiful and then just the other week you did the Travis Barker 5K thing with Toby, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. That kind of came out of nowhere and happened really quickly. Like Travis made a teaser little video where he was running and in this Forrest Gump kind of thing. And then it was just sort of like more will be announced. And then suddenly like, it seemed like two weeks later there was a race.

1:55:30It was at the forum. Yeah. And it happened to be at the forum the night, the day of their sold out concert. Oh, so Blink was playing there that evening. So there was stuff in there, but we didn't know that. I didn't know that. Yeah, yeah. You know, again, being in spaces, Toby's a really good mate of mine, Toby Morse. We all know Toby. Friend of the pod. Yeah. Friend IRL. Yeah. Who's my brother. Like my brother, I love that guy. me and Toby start running. And you know, Toby's an influencer, man. Toby's an influencer, whether he knows it or not. He's an influencer's influence. Yes. You came out and we made that video project.

1:56:19Which was one of the first times he ran with a group. Right, for Salman and then I dragged him out and he was like, he didn't like, he was like, I don't really run, you know? But something about that day clicked, right? And then he was like on his running journey all of a sudden. And now he's like all about it. Yeah. But he's an influencer's influencer because he's behind the scenes. Yes. Like talking to people that mere mortals don't get to talk to. Oh, dude. And telling them what's what, you know? Toby is one of those individuals, man. I mean, Toby doesn't know how much power he has, but Toby is, yeah, Yeah, I really feel like Toby is a reason why Travis is running.

1:57:03And the way that Travis is running is like, I mean, that guy was doing like 650 minute miles. Yeah, he's always been a very good athlete and he's always like worked out and been very conscious of his health. But the running thing I think is new for Travis. Yeah, and it was such a beautiful thing. Toby makes you feel like a superstar. Whenever you're around Toby, Toby will make you feel like a superstar. So we were hanging out with Toby. It's me, you know, Alex, Alex Buck. It's me, Alex, and then Toby's son, who's now a runner. Max. Yeah, Max is running. Toby's wife, Moon, she was walking, but it was a crew of us.

1:57:44And then John. John Lewis. John Lewis, badass vegan. Yeah, shout out John, who is bloody huge. I don't remember him being this huge 10 years ago, but he's huge. but it was so fun we got to hang out with Trav I can say that I got to hang out with Trav I've met him a couple of times now um but no Travis is really cool very very cool cat Kourtney Kardashian who you know he's married to and it was a really really well done event it was a really well done event you know for it being in the heart of Inglewood it was a diverse crowd and it was it was a really big deal it was and for travis to come and actually run and everybody yeah to run with everyone it was really cool man and it was just really cool there was a really it was a really good group of us you know it was very punk rock it was very punk rock but it was just really good i wish you could have been there because it was just it was good seeing toby it was good seeing toby and travis knowing that they have a really great relationship and now to see them having a relationship around running yeah it's beautiful it's pretty cool it's beautiful and i can i can say that i can pat myself on the back because if it wasn't for me getting toby in the running and you getting him in the running we can both pat ourselves on the back that travis is now running yeah and goodness knows how many more other people are running so high fives on that i mean i'm not I'm not taking credit for anything here.

1:59:14You can take credit for that. You can take credit for that. Yeah, the domino effect. It's a, what it is, is a lesson in understanding that your words and your actions have more power than you might imagine. Big time. Because they can set in motion subtle energies that have influence that ripples out. And, you know, it's not dramatic generally, but it's nonetheless the case, right? And you may never know what that influence is, but understand that it is real, I think, right? Yeah, big time, big time, big time. It's cool. Well, we gotta wrap this up, dude, but I wanna leave people with some kind of spiritual download.

2:00:01I mean, you're on fire, bro. Like you're just dropping crazy, spiritual truisms, hot Cohen's, right? But for someone who maybe is a little bit newer to these sorts of ideas and is interested in deepening their spiritual connection, maybe instead of a practice, maybe lay out the value proposition. The values are really priceless in the fact that you get to, one, have connections with folks that you may not have had interactions with before. There's a level of killing the ego, killing the ego or the ego death. When you're able to somewhat go through ego death, there is somewhat of a opening and a releasing and a revolutionary act that's happening in you.

2:01:05there's a surrendering and that surrender is a lightning load of your whole existence there's value in being able to be free of those things as i said the dukas the fear the doubt and those are natural because we're living in a human existence those are natural but they can be lessened. They can be lessened with doing certain things like the practice of meditation, the practice of the mindfulness, the practice of just being in, you know, living those good qualities. The value in it is that you become better stewards of your family. Through this, the relationship with my daughters i was just telling my my therapist this this this this this today my relationship with my daughter is now because i've learned how to soften my heart in tara brock says there's a saying in theravada where it's called a sure heart's release it's when you fully let your heart open and you just release it there's lifting that burden off there's unlocking that cage because a lot of us have a cage around our heart mind and i like to say heart mind because there's a quality of mind within the heart and there's a lot of us that have that caged through these practices you get to open that heart space and that heart space opens up and liberates you even more fully we're in very chaotic damaging detrimental situations where there's a lot of hope being lost and a lot of people's hearts are hardened when the antithesis could be if we learn how to soften our hearts if we learn how to unshackle a lot of those gates that are guarding our hearts we could be able to think and be more free in our minds and our thoughts those are the qualities those are the values that you have if you can just let go and surrender and be open to what's new and trusting the process there's a process and it might not seem clear at first but if you just really learn to understand the heart and what makes the heart grow fonder and what makes the heart flourish you can find that liberation and that's going to open up more doors for you in the way that that you maneuver through the world with love, with life, the way you act with your bosses, the way you move through your business, the way you move through how you treat your wife, your partner, not being afraid to surrender, not being afraid to let go of what doesn't service you and not being afraid to meet new challenges and face them head on and not be afraid to move with that same vigor and that same passion that you might move with if you were getting the best ice cream you ever tasted or you were getting the best dinner you ever tasted, moving with that same vigor, even in the unknown, because you are able to trust yourself and knowing that there is such sweet freedom and liberation behind that.

2:05:03Well, Charlie Dark might be your Yoda, but right now, I think you're mine, brother. That was unbelievable. That is the way we're gonna end this podcast because it's like, it's not gonna get any better than that, everybody, right? Unbelievable, my friend. That was beautiful. I love you. I love you too, brother. Thank you for bringing so much conscious, present awareness to this experience today. You're a special cat, my friend. Thank you, man. That means a lot. Yeah, it's an honor to have you here and to help share your message. I'd love to spend more time with you. Likewise. Yeah, I'm sitting across from you.

2:05:42I'm like, why don't I hang out with this guy all the time? We're gonna make that happen. We're gonna make that happen. Cool. We'll link up all the fun stuff in the show notes. But if you wanna direct people to all the things that you're doing, I know you have, I don't know when this is gonna go up, but I know you're teaching retreats at Spirit Rock and you've got all kinds of stuff going on that people can find out about on your website, on your Instagram, but where do you want to send people? Yeah, I have my website, hakimtafari.com. My Instagram, which is where people find between those two, Harkstyle.

2:06:16You can find me on Instagram under Harkstyle. And yeah, my website, which will connect you to my LinkedIn, my SoundCloud. I have a SoundCloud where you can find my mixes. And then I have a radio show every Sunday, 101.5 FM. You can stream it on kqbhla.com. You can find me there. And, you know, I do want to give a funder, a funder to certain individuals, obviously my daughters, but my friend Jimmy Rage and Shaman Cassette and obviously Melinda, my partner, those folks have really been pivotal in helping me train, helping me train my mind, helping me train my body, helping me just navigate through the world.

2:07:03And those are some really great people. And my daughters, man, who are, my two of them are going to come and see me next week from Orlando, which I can't wait. Yeah, and you, Rich, you've always been one of my biggest, biggest supporters. And I really, what you do for the world on a whole is really magical. And I just want to give you your flowers while I'm here, man. We really honor you. And when I say we, I mean we, because you have a community. You have a community and we really honor you and really thank you for what you do for the world. Thank you so much. We should also thank Russell Nadal, who was the person who introduced us first.

2:07:44Yeah. So shout out to Russell. Shout out to Russell. 100 % he's listening to this. So we love you, Russell. Love you, Russell. Thank you, Rich. Until next time. Peace. Peace.

2:08:07that's it for today thank you for listening i truly hope you enjoyed the conversation to learn more about today's guest including links and resources related to everything discussed today visit the episode page at richroll.com where you can find the entire podcast archive my books finding ultra voicing change in the plant power way as well as the Plant Power Meal Planner at meals.richroll.com. If you'd like to support the podcast, the easiest and most impactful thing you can do is to subscribe to the show on Apple Podcasts, on Spotify, and on YouTube and leave a review and or comment. This show just wouldn't be possible without the help of our amazing sponsors who keep this podcast running wild and free.

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2:09:33And thank you, Georgia Whaley, for copywriting and website management. And of course, our theme music was created by Tyler Pyatt, Trapper Pyatt, and Harry Mathis. Appreciate the love, love the support. See you back here soon. Peace. Plants. Namaste.

2:09:54Thank you.