Introducing Feel Better, Live More: The Secret To A Happy Life With Eliud Kipchoge (The World’s Fastest Man)

26:53When you're about to embark on something like last Sunday, the Berlin Marathon, do you know beforehand that I'm going to try and break a world record today? Is that already in your mind? Or I guess there must be things, you train for four or five months, but you can't control the weather, for example. Many of us who run at weekends, let's say, some days we're not feeling it you know our legs don't feel as though they've got the the energy or we don't have the mindset so i'm really interested for you when you have done so much training to build up for one race where the world is watching do you have a strategy in your head that today i'm going for the world record i'll start by saying that uh i don't know clearly i'm not a believer of success for the first thing.

27:49I don't believe in success, but I believe in good preparation and planning which can bring success. That means within actually the five months, if I don't work hard, I will not be successful. But if I got well planned, well prepared, then I'm sure of success. What I'm trying to say is this. For four months, I am really training. eating the targets for over 80 percent is that then I feel I'm really comfortable in my body, my legs are good. Then actually one day to go, then I start to audit what I've been doing. If what I've been doing actually went well as I expected, then the next day I'm ready for the next day.

28:41Anything might happen if the rain comes in, if it's too hot or if the weather is okay, then I will handle it. But I will accept the results. You know, they say actually if you don't accept the results, then if you want to enjoy the sport, you need to accept it out. Be it any outcome, I will not regret. Acceptance seems to be a really key part of your approach to life. You mentioned, of course, already that the Bill of Marathon's gone. That's the branch. You've got the branch now. You accept it and move on, irrespective of what had happened. You also mentioned that you don't believe in success.

29:24That's really interesting to me. Does that mean, is it you don't believe in success? Or certainly when I hear you say that and describe it, is it that the success is the four months of training? That's the success. Let me explain that when I say I don't believe in success, success is there. But you cannot sit and wait for success. Yeah. Success is waiting for you to actually say, hey, just grab me. But rule number one, you should be prepared. Rule number two, we should be well planned. Rule number three, you should be actually capable of grabbing the success. That's what success is saying. Success is there, I don't deny.

30:16But I believe in preparation, in pure and good preparation, in pure and clean planning can lead to success. I don't think that you can actually believe that I will be successful in a marathon. Yeah. And you don't follow actually the program to the letter. You know, the moment you skip one, your body will actually count on the very day. Yeah. Yes. It's so fascinating. what I'm hearing from you is that yes you happen to be a marathon runner but you're saying that actually this approach kind of applies to all of us

31:08yes you know success is you can define success in different definitions 10 or 20 or anything you have but at the core of everything I'll give you an example that you are in class and you are last year exam in December and you have three months to study if you don't study hard if you don't actually go into a group discussion to share what you know and somebody else can give you what he or she knows I don't think you will actually get the first class on us you can be successful in running ...but you can't run through then. That's success, that's success according to you. You can be successful in life and you run through five.

32:02You can be successful in life and run through one. That's the difference of success. You can be successful in education and you have a path. You can call yourself, you are successful, you have credit. You can call yourself, you are successful and you have distinction. So, what is success really? I think success, what I'm trying to say, is the mastery of what you are doing. If you have mastered what you are doing, then that's success. But you need to do it. You need to have the right systems for success to come in. The real right systems. The moment you lack systems, the moment you lack the positive systems within here, you will really look for it, but you will not get it.

32:49So it's good that in life you need to weigh yourself and declare that I belong here. If you're a sportsman, you really need to stand and say, no, I need to be successful. I belong here. It doesn't mean that people can see you are successful, you are not. People can still doubt. Please, it's good to actually tell yourself I need to be successful. but I need to work up I need to be actually doing what's right at the right time, at the right place we all need our own individual definition of success, don't we? absolutely, if you want to be successful define in your own words in your own words, the way you understand your own language define success in your own language because someone who's never run before if they were to complete a 5k they were to build up to running 5km, that could be success for them.

33:51Absolutely, yes. They are building up and they have actually completed 5km. Yeah. In the next three months, they are completing 10km. That's success. But you cannot actually work up today and actually complete 20km.

34:10Last Sunday, I was glued to the race. And actually, I want to share with you, there are three moments in my life where I have witnessed a great sporting occasion with my two children. And two of them actually involved you. One of them was when Tiger Woods won the Masters in 2015. But the other two were last weekend when you broke the world record. And also when you went under two hours in 159. I was sitting with my two children around the computer watching. It was really special moments. Now, at halfway, when we saw the splits of, of course, you all know, 59 something at halfway, I was feeling nervous, which is ridiculous because I'm not running, you're running, and you look really relaxed.

35:03But I'm thinking, oh man, is he going to break two hours a day? Has he gone off too fast? How aware of the time are you in that moment? What was going through your head? You know what happened is that I was feeling well. Pressmakers were clearly on the right shape and we crossed the halfway, we crossed the 20k and realized hey then it's 56 is so fast. Then I tried to calculate to give another two minutes and 50 seconds. I saw it will be actually under 60. But all in all is that that was a big motivation for me that if I am crossing equally under 60 with half, then I will not miss a world record.

35:48So I was keeping myself a morale that, please, let me push. If I run two hours flat, well done good. If I miss and run a world record, that's what I need. So it was a blast on my side. It was a blast on my mind, yeah. Do you feel any pressure because of who you are, because of the amount of people who look up to you and watch you? You know, are you aware of that pressure from the outside or is it just another race for you? It was a huge pressure. It's a pressure from all sides. You know, on Friday, I just jumped in to press conference room and all the journalists were asking me, are you going for world record?

36:38And I told them, no, who told you I'm going for world record? I'm coming here to run a good race and if that race can be translated to be a course record or if you can call it a world record, I will appreciate. That's what I told them. But there was a lot of pressure from the channels. Everybody was expecting that you can run. Then I told them, no, I'm coming for a good race. Yeah. It's that approach, isn't it, that you keep talking about? It's process over outcome. it's the journey over the destination that's what i'm hearing as i hear you speak yes yes you know you cannot actually say you know human being is not machine you cannot it's a you you cannot set yourself and for a certain time and run that time no you you never know what will happen yeah yeah on the way marathon is live and all all challenges are on the way but uh always put my mind that i I need to run well.

37:33I need to run a certain time. Try to push myself according to what I've been doing in training, thinking, you know, before you do something, you need to internalize first. You need to internalize. You need to really put in your heart and in your mind. You need even to think and imagine closing a finishing line with a world record. Then you will get it. You cannot work up and just rush. The moment you get it, then you say thank you, and you move on.

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43:20Last Sunday after the race, I went to the kitchen with my kids. We were having a late breakfast because we missed breakfast to watch you break the world record. And my 12-year-old son had a question for me, which if you don't mind, I was gonna put to you. Yes. He said, Daddy, hey, Elliot was celebrating just before he got through the line. If he hadn't celebrated, do you think he would have gone one or two seconds even quicker than what he did do? So this is a child's question. And I watched the video again on YouTube this morning. And it certainly appeared that obviously you knew you'd broken the world records.

44:00There was a smile. There was some sort of hand celebrations. and it did appear to me that your pace slightly slowed at the end. So the question from my son is, could you have gone one or two seconds faster had you not celebrated? It's a very good question. And I want to answer that I already saw that I'm inside the world record. So I didn't mind actually celebrating, provided I need something called a world record. Yeah. So I was sure of a world record and decided to celebrate and got it. Yeah. Yeah. Well, huge, huge congratulations. Thank you. You know, I know you want to inspire people to run.

44:47I've heard you say that in many interviews and many conversations. And I've been thinking about inspiration recently. What is it about people like you that inspire so many of us around the world? Because, you know, I'm a doctor, okay? So I may dream about being an elite marathon runner, but I'm not an elite marathon runner. But I remember after that race, I felt inspired. I went into the garden and I did some sprints. I got my skipping rope out and did some skipping. There was something about watching you, a fellow member of the human race, achieve something so special that really inspired me within my life to do a bit more why do you think that is um inspiration actually is that i always say that life is about movement and i want to inspire people to move all the professions are actually whether you are an engineer a doctor whether you are a teacher whether you are a manager all sorts of professions in this world for them to survive for them to live longer is the spirit of movement what I'm trying to say is this if you move that's how to earn a good life if you move That's how to live longer.

46:21But the only movement which is available is the less expensive movement, which is running. If you run, then, you know, I'm trying to tell people that you can't run actually to be a record holder, but I need you to run to be fit and to live longer. That's my inspiration. That's why I always say I want to push running to be a family lifestyle. The moment all the families are crap running and put in their family and call it a family lifestyle, that will be great. Whereby in the morning you can see the kids and the parents just putting on shoes. Just walk around. Just move. It's about movement. Just move.

47:16the world will be fruitful again. Are you familiar with Park Run? It's a big global movement. It started in the UK and in many, many towns and villages around the UK and now in the world. There's a 5K every Saturday morning. And people of all abilities come, children, adults, they all get a time. But, you know, the fastest will be running in 15, 16 minutes. the slowest will maybe be an hour but it's a big community spirit and people run together and you know what you just said about running as a family I'm pretty sure if park run did not exist I'm not sure my kids would be runners like my son loves running but I think he loves running because of park run so the way we start every weekend is me and my son, we go down to the local 5K, rain or shine, you know, windy, cold, hot, doesn't matter.

48:17We turn up and we do a 5K. And so for me, it's how we spend our family weekends together, which I think speaks to what you're talking about. Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. And if all of us are colleagues, if the spirit that you are doing in UK can go to every country, in this world, then actually it will be far. The two years, actually, the world will change. Why did you start running? I started running. My neighbor was running. I wanted to run like him, which is my coach now. And the aim was of running, actually, and training her. It was just to feel how life will be up the skies by actually getting a ticket and fly.

49:07Yes, but at long last I travelled to Europe and I realised that sport can give me life. Sport actually can keep food to my table, to my siblings and my parents and the rest. So I started to focus in a professional way. And did you know from the start that, hey, I'm pretty quick here. I can beat people around me or did that come later? No, that one came later. Did it? I just trained and wanted to just perform, go to compete and compete with other people. Get a position and come back home. As I talk to you, Elliot, I think back to a conversation I had a few years ago on this show with Killian Shawnee, the, you know, regarded by many as the greatest mountain runner of all time.

50:02You, of course, are regarded as the greatest marathon runner of all time. And what really strikes me from chatting to both of you is there's a real modesty, a real humility. And I'm really interested, why do you think that might be? And do you think there's something unique to running that kind of gives off that flavor in the people at the top of the sport? I think it's about understanding life and understanding what you are doing. That always when you are at the top of something and you have an ego, that's a sign of actually failure. And at the end of it actually, when you are at home and you realize that your ego is up, then it doesn't feel like you are human.

50:58So it's the way you think that you treat the world as a full of a human family and an ego will go away. And I trust that the moment you chase away ego, that's the best place to really get into course. The best place to think. The best place actually to think with other people and respect other people. The best place actually to get your trainings in a good way. Yeah. Do you think there's something about running or running long distances that it kind of burns the ego out of you? I trust the long runs when you are running for long, training for long, helps you to actually to know how to handle suffering.

51:50And if you know how to handle suffering and pain, that's what long run is helping me or helping any other person. But all you know, I think it's the only way to calm your mind that, hey, what do you want again? And if something happens, then it does happen and we need to move on. You know, I don't know, I can't explain because I don't understand more as far as ego is concerned, but I believe actually at the end of the day, you know, before you go to bed, I think everybody actually is reflecting what has happened for the whole day. Yeah. That you actually affect the world in a positive way or in a negative way for the whole day.

52:37That you actually, what did you do? Did you do anything negative or positive? That's what people actually should be asking themselves at the end of the day before you go to bed. and if you happen to actually have those thoughts then actually you will realize that there is no need of actually having an ego yeah yeah this life is actually good when you are on the ground you come across incredibly calm and zen in your manner and you mentioned there that running and particularly long runs is a good way to calm the mind. So I guess for me, I'm thinking, were you always calm and zen and relaxed? Or do you think it's the fact that you run so much that has made you calm and relaxed?

53:31I think it has been my personality, but running has helped me to be more calmer. Yeah. you mentioned reflection and how important it is maybe every evening to think you know what have you done in the day have you contributed to other people you know have you behaved in a way that uh in a manner that you wanted to behave in and i know that you are a very keen journaler you have a journal yes and in one interview you've mentioned that your pen and your journal are two of the most important things that you possess. I wonder if you could speak to journaling. Why is it so important to you? And why do you still do it by hand in an age where we have computers and technology?

54:19I have a lot of channels. I have a channel for training every day. I have a channel for the shoes that I'm using every day. I have a channel that when I'm reading a book, I just highlight the best points I need to put down on a notebook. I have a notebook whereby it's a what to do in that day that I write all of them down and actually focus on the day-to-day, my daily programs that I need to do to rush up and down when I'm at home. So believing actually on the hand or writing actually is that I believe that they say, write it and you'll remember. Yeah. So the moment you write it, you'll remember.

55:10So that's why I'm still carrying around the channel. The channel, I have 90 now at all. If you happen to come to Kenya and visit me, I will show you what I was doing in 2003, 2004. Well, I would love to. So that's every year you write down all of your running. Absolutely. Every single run. Every single run. And what are you documenting? Like, what are you writing down? Like, what, distance? I'm writing the time I cover and the distance. Everything I'm doing, if I spark, massage, everything I'm putting there. So it helps you remember. Does it help you also, when you're reviewing it, kind of see patterns?

55:53Oh, when I do this, this happens. Or when I do this, I'm running quickly. That sort of thing? the core thing is that you know if you are writing everything every day it helps you not to miss that training because the moment you miss training for two days you will just put when you refer to your channel you'll say oh I missed the training last week three times I missed the training this week two times with no reason at all so it's good actually that I really need my book to get filled. That's why I don't miss training. Do you do it when you wake up? Do you do it after the run? Do you do it in the evening?

56:37Or does it just depend day to day? When I wake up, I don't handle anything. I just wake up, get my clothes put on. When I wake up, I don't see, I don't handle my phone. I'm waking up, prepare for a run. After I ran, I go back for breakfast. Coming back to relax, then I start now to... My training was 20 kilometers. Then I write actually the time I cover and the kilometers. And I close the channel and start to check the phone if there is some text to refer to or email or anything else. But all in all, I treat myself as for other things. so you wake up you get yourself ready for a run you're not looking at your phone you do your run it's only after that important thing is done for you that you then get into what the rest of the world wants you to do absolutely yeah i always tell people that even in the camp that during breakfast actually don't bring my phone even we set a law in our camp whereby mobile phones are not allowed in the kitchen or dining where we are eating to make people actually eat well and concentrate.

58:02Reason number one is that it's to avoid these people actually to cut their phones immediately after training. So you need to cut one hour of taking shower, taking breakfast, taking care of yourself before you respond to the whole world. Most of them actually were or saying that, hey, you know, emergency might be in. Then I ask them, we're out of our rooms for one hour, 30 minutes. If any emergency happens within one hour, 30 minutes, will you solve it? They say, you know, then there is no need for actually rushing to the phone. Yeah, yeah. And what has happened after it has happened, you can actually bring it back.

58:46Yeah, I love that. so what kind of time do you normally wake up and then you know i'm interested as in that sort of routine you wake up is that with an alarm is it without an alarm and then how long does it take you to warm up before you're out for your run usually my alarm is actually only at five five five or five, that's a quarter to six. Work out to the necessary chain and put on. Then past six, then I'm on the road with the whole team and we start training. Do you always run in groups when you're training? We always run in big groups. But how does that go? because if you're one of the fastest human beings on the planet, which I think you are and most of us think you are, how does it work then when you're running in groups?

59:45Because presumably at some point, depending on what kind of run you're doing, presumably you're the fastest. So help me understand how are you running groups? You know, training actually is not about competing. We are training, we are not competing. So easy run as we normally run while I'm even five meters at the back. But all in all is that my life I need to be with people and run with the young people to actually motivate them. When I'm there, actually everybody's life. There is life when I'm there. When I miss training in the morning or when I'm doing something else, then everybody will receive 100 calls after that one and a half hours.

1:00:32Where are you? So it's about training, it's not about competition. But you can train actually for four months in a good way with everybody. But I think the mind, people should learn or actually practice their minds to handle pressure and have hard work and believe in pushing the limits. The moment they believe in pushing the limits and handle the pressure, they will run very fast. It's about what you think that can carry your day.

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1:02:55In the West, certainly here in the UK, and I think also in America, the relationship a lot of people have with running, or I guess movement in general, is to help them, you know, deal with the stresses of their day. These days in the UK, people will talk about running for their mental well-being. My taxi driver, a chap called Daniel in the northwest of England, he told me a few months ago that he runs 10K every day, seven days a week. And he says, if he doesn't run those 10K, he doesn't feel good. He doesn't feel he's settled. A lot of us also do this by ourselves, right? You know, culture in the West has become quite isolated.

1:03:44People often don't live near their families, near their friends. They're living, maybe they've moved to a different city for work and they often work by themselves and then they go running by themselves and they struggle to motivate themselves to keep going but what I'm hearing from you is that you're running groups and of course that makes sense like if you're not going to show up you're you're letting people down they're going to say hey Elliot where are you you know why why are you not running today what's going on and it makes me it really fits into what I think where I think we're really going wrong in the West, we're becoming more isolated.

1:04:21We're doing more and more things by ourself. And I think that's why that group Park Run every Saturday is proving so successful for so many people across the UK and around the world is because people are running in groups, which helps motivate you. Have you noticed this when you go around the world, you're speaking to people? Have you noticed that culturally, the relationship to running we may have, let's say in the UK or in America is different from the relationship people have with running in, let's say, Kenya? Absolutely, yes. In America and Europe, most people are running by themselves. But my encouragement is that, that's why I always say I want to make running a family event.

1:05:11is that if you want to enjoy more running, you run, get a group. Get two, three, four, five people actually. Assemble yourselves actually in a point. If it's every day, then that's well done good. And just run, you'll enjoy. You'll just talk as you are going. Ideas are coming in. And you put on paper, turn a bit. And, you know, it's good. You know, sometimes when you are alone, you think you are running and you are not running. Your mind is in another place. You know, running is not about legs. Running is about actually the mind. Your legs might be on the back, but your mind might be actually on the plane.

1:05:54So you need a group so that it can actually protect your thoughts from actually exploding, going away and bring back to where you are running. So group running actually is crucial. to keep you on the course, make you enjoy running, and you cannot actually get tired. You know, the moment you are alone, you start to think a lot, then you cannot finish 10 kilometers if you are actually aiming it. Yeah. Yeah. Many of us struggle with motivation. Do you ever wake up in the morning and you know you're due to have a run? And do you ever think, like many of us, oh, I can't be bothered today. I'm not feeling it today I want to stay in bed help us understand are you as human as the rest of us or do you wake up yeah it's time to run oh actually there are some days whereby I don't feel like running really?

1:06:54absolutely yes but just lie in the bed and I ask myself if I don't run what will happen and you know if you don't run in the morning you will lie to yourself that at 10 o 'clock I will go for a run. At 10 o 'clock you'll say, no, 4 o 'clock I'll go for a run. And then the day actually will be off. So I'll ask myself what will happen. Then I wake up, get my shoes, get my clothes, go to the road. In 10 minutes time, jogging, then my body will come up again. Yeah. In training and I will come to life again. Yeah, I love that. Do you tend to run every day usually? Yes, I run every day. Every day. Even, like, I don't know, like, I know you're in recovery now because obviously you ran last weekend.

1:07:42Are you still running every day? I know. I'll start next week to run again. And for many of us, when we do a marathon, the next day can be quite painful in terms of going up and down stairs. We can really, really feel it. Yes. Is it the same for you or can you walk effortlessly the day after? No, it's the same for me. Same for you. Going to stairs, I call it. you know when there has been there has been actually in your muscles and you know all that impact from the road is hard. Yeah, so you have the marathon hobble like the rest of us okay hearing what you're saying about groups and running together I'm drawn back to last Sunday's race again where I don't know, obviously you had you had the paces there was a fellow competitor who was with you for quite a long time I don't know if you were aware of that if you're thinking wow people are still with me I don't know what goes in your head at that time I'm very interested but then there comes a moment where you no longer have your paces you no longer have competitors to help push you what goes on in your mind there because then it's down to self-motivation at that point you don't have many of us know that actually we can run faster if there's people around us if we're trying to beat someone we're trying to keep up with someone but in many of the races i've seen you do you're out in front by yourself is it hard to keep that motivation going for you when it's just you oh let me start it when people are around me yeah Yeah.

1:09:33First, I always say, I will run my own race. If anybody actually wants to run my race, then he's welcome. I will not actually deny, you are welcome to run my race. So if you want to run your own, that's okay. But I'll run my race. That's why I don't see, I don't actually turn myself and look back, who is there? Because I am running my own race. if actually the distance actually is going up and the speed is going up and the muscle starts to to actually go sore and nobody's there then I'm motivating myself I'm still pushing I'll push by my own because I trust in my trainings I trust in what I've been doing so I know what I've been doing will just take me to the finishing line So I'm not actually scared of maybe losing some minutes because I'm alone or here and there, no.

1:10:40Yeah. You say you're pushing. One of the most striking things for me, Elliot, when I watch you run is how relaxed you look. There's an elegance. You look majestic. your posture is fabulous in fact I find it very hard to tell the difference between you at mile one and at mile 26 to me maybe I've got an untrained eye but it looks remarkably similar whereas if you go to a local race here towards the end you will see all kinds of postures and people somehow trying to struggle to get through so you're saying that you're struggling and you're pushing of course why would you not in order to break a world record yet at the same time you look super relaxed can you help us understand that oh looking super relaxed is uh that's a good for it's good for me and uh and other and is that uh i have actually trained well and train my booty actually to run in a super relaxed way but in a high pace so when I'm in the rest I'm just maintaining it but you know to maintain that speed is worth actually it's really hard to maintain but it's good to maintain in a good posture without actually struggling so much yeah

1:12:22I've spoken to many people on this show before about nasal breathing, about some of the benefits that we have when we breathe through our nose instead of through our mouth. And I can't tell when I watch you, you look so relaxed. Certainly for the first half of that marathon last Sunday when I was watching you, I thought, is Elliot just breathing through his nose or is his mouth open? Do you think about this? Is this something you're aware of? Yes, but I breathe through my mouth. You breathe through your mouth? Yes. from the start to the finish? The more the speed, the more the more disc. You cannot breathe in your nose.

1:13:00At the speed you're going. No, I can believe that. I can believe that. But thank you for clarifying that. Yeah. And what about your smile? What I call the Kipchoge smile. We hear that you smile when you're in pain. Is that true? Or maybe explain to us, You seem, for someone who is running such long distances at such, frankly, a pace that we can't fathom. I know you were at the running show yesterday, so I'm guessing you saw people trying to run your pace. Yes. And I'm guessing nobody looked... First of all, what is it like for you when you watch amateur runners trying to run at your pace? I feel tense.

1:13:48You feel tense? Yes. Why? No, you know, even seeing yourself running on TV, you just feel it.

1:13:59Do you worry they're going to injure themselves on the treadmill and fall off? Yeah, I saw last year somebody who fell, but I think he was not injured. So, yeah. But I call it a smile, it's to enjoy, you know. If you feel that pain, please keep that pain. If you feel the pain, then feel it. The more you actually move with the pain, that's where success is. Everybody, if you are 10 and you feel the real pain, then everybody is feeling the pain. And few of them who actually know how to handle pain will be successful and will move on to another level. So how do we learn how to handle pain? You should understand that pain is part of success.

1:14:48Just to combat pain into a positive thing. That success is not coming on a silver platter. You need to work for it. The moment you are working for it, that's how you undergo pain. Pain in your body and pain in your mind thinking. But at the end of it, you'll enjoy. Immediately you close the line, immediately the pain is no longer there. Yeah. So you think pain is a good thing? Absolutely, yes. It's a good thing. Pain is a good thing. It actually guides you to know that you need to work hard. It's guiding you to respect that success that you have earned. yeah yes if all people all successful people are clearly not undergo pain then you can see other things in this world but because pain is guiding them that if i play uh i am successful but if i don't do the right thing actually i i will not earn success again yeah it's it's fascinating hearing that eliot because i'm i keep thinking about what you said earlier that

1:15:57planning it's about preparation that's almost where the success lies not in the actual outcome of the race you know you didn't quite say that but that's certainly what i'm that's that's what i'm in that's yes that's what i'm taking i found that a really powerful idea and you say on the day then no matter what's happening the crowds the weather things you can't control well you can trust yourself because you know you've done the training absolutely now that's really powerful if we apply that to pain i'm asking you how can we each of us learn to handle pain better but i'm i keep thinking about what you said well if you've never practiced being in pain how would you know ever how to handle it so it sounds as though you have trust in your body because you know you've done the work you've experienced pain you've got through pain you've overcome adversity so you know on the next day or the next day you've got that experience in your body i know i can do this and and it sounds like that's a key thing for you the trust that you have because you've done the hard work um the harder the work you are doing the more the pain but doesn't that one doesn't prevent you from actually the big day that let Let's say I've trained for four months.

1:17:23In a good way, there is pain, but you enjoy the pain. In that very day that you are running a marathon, pain should be there. On training, it's not the last days. You will experience pain here. But what I'm trying to say is that the moment you actually encounter that pain, please pass a fear, learn to pass a fear. Because that's where success is. The moment you don't feel pain, then you are not approaching success. The moment you really feel that, please, I need to just quit. That's where success is. Don't quit. Still keep on. I always tell people, press on, press on, and press on. Until you press on, you press on, you press on, you will get to where you are going.

1:18:16Yeah.

1:18:19Many people feel nervous the day before, let's say, a marathon or a big work presentation or something big in their lives. They feel a little bit nervous and anxious and they don't sleep very well. So it's pretty well known. Many amateur marathon runners, I did my very first marathon last year at the London Marathon, which didn't go particularly well, but I did finish, I did complete it and i'm planning to do it in april um do you ever find yourself the night before a race lying in bed thinking man i need to sleep i can't sleep i've got a big race tomorrow has that ever happened or have you trained yourself to sleep well the night before a big race uh not really i'm like other people i sleep for two hours wake up see or it's no longer another two hours so it's really it's common it's a good thing and and it's good for it shows that you are prepared to to end a lot of work tomorrow yeah yeah i know you wear an aura ring to track your sleep and i'm really interested in technology and how it can help us with our health i think sometimes we can overuse it potentially um you obviously are an elite athlete so knowing you know how you're running how you're sleeping these things are really really important for you to do your job is it demoralizing for you the night before a race i don't know what happened the night before berlin for example if you have a bad night's sleep and you look at your aura ring in the morning and you see a really bad readiness score or does has that ever happened and does that demoralize you or have you learned not to take too much notice uh the next day i don't actually click to the have and you won't look i won't look oh so if you've had a bad night you won't look i don't look yeah yes but i know i've been running many marathons and it's it's hectic for one day to go to really sleep yeah yeah i'm always fascinated by talking to people like you who are at the top of their game and um like i think of other people at the top of their sports people who are regarded as the greatest and um you know in golf for example tiger woods is regarded as by many people as the greatest or certainly one of the greatest golfers of all time now i've heard tiger woods say in interviews that when he is playing his best, he's so focused on what he's doing with the ball and where the hole is that he doesn't hear or see the crowds.

1:21:03I've heard you say earlier that actually you do hear the crowds, you enjoy hearing what they have to say. So I'm interested, you know, as I share that sort of insight from Tiger, do you ever get like that where you're not hearing them and you're really focused or does it just depend on what stage of a race you're in? Starting from beginning, I hear what the crowd are saying on the way. People are singing and I'm not looking at them, but I'm focusing on the road. But I hear that people are cheering on the way and I have no problem. That's good. Cheering is good. Yeah. Yeah. So you hear it and you use...

1:21:45But I block my myonackel from thinking outside and bring the myonackel to the every mile splits, every kilometer splits, and focus on the projector time. Yeah. You're obviously very well-known around the world. Many people with profiles like yours will face maybe 95 % positive comments online, but maybe 5 % negative comments. When those negative comments come, if they do, how do you deal with them? Oh, negative comments are there in all the sport. You know, the law of nature cannot allow us to think together. There is optimists and pessimists in this world. And we need to respect all of them because we are all human beings.

1:22:43So any negative thought actually, respect, and that's life, you know. You know, other things actually is that you need to just forget, just see, then forget. You know, you don't put it in your mind. But a lot is there. There is a lot of positive remarks, negative remarks. What can you do? Yeah, yeah. You cannot prevent them from talking. But you can prevent them from coming inside your life because they are negative. Some top athletes have struggled when they retired. You know, Michael Phelps, another great, you know, all-time swimming great. It's been well documented that he has struggled with mental health problems in the past.

1:23:33And I watched the documentary he made about Olympians and how many of them have really struggled. You know, the four years is all about that one race. And then the day after there's, oh, what am I getting up for? I've got nothing to train for, nothing to practice for. And I'm really interested. You appear to be, to me at least, in the prime of your career. I hope we're seeing you running for many, many years to come. Have you thought about retirement? So have you thought about how you're gonna feel when you no longer do this as your job? Oh, yes. In front of my mind, I know I will retire. But I will retire when the time comes in.

1:24:18I will retire running actively. But I will still go around all the big city marathons running for charity to actually raise funds for my foundation to build libraries and actually conserve the environment. I think I'll be more busy when I retire and I'm looking forward for it. So you don't need the running, the world records to make you feel good about yourself? Not at all. I got to retire in 2019 when I break up to a party. So it's, I will retire when my muscles are no longer consuming the trainings, when my My mind is no longer actively consuming the training. So I want to retire in a good way.

1:25:15I don't want to retire because I have made an history. Then why do I retire if I have made history? If I can inspire a billion people by running under two hours. And then the next day a kid, at the end a kid asks, is that person who inspires still running? No, he retires. Then what's the meaning of running? Yeah. The meaning of running is that you inspire many people, you still run and show them running is life. Making history and actually removing the barriers in the mind of people is a great thing. But we need to keep on. Yeah. So you think you'll still be running in your 70s, your 80s, your 9s?

1:26:05Absolutely, yes. You know, seven years ago I met an old man in Athens, in Greece. I was there for some awards. And the old man actually was 91 years. He was a very good old man, 91 years, still working. And then he told me, no, now you're running a marathon. And I told him, yes. He told me that he has been running in his life, all his life. But he will stop running at 100. I trust now he's 98. I've never followed him. I've not got his contacts. But I think he has two more days, two more years to run because he's becoming old because of the knees and everything. But still running. so if you I ask him then what's the secret you have a good you are clean with a tie and you don't look like you are 91 he told me the secret is running wow yeah yeah I guess if you were to stop running after let's say another Olympic gold or another another world record then I guess in some ways it's not consistent with your philosophy which is those are just outcomes there are things that you know happen as a side effect of you just concentrating on getting up each day doing the work having a plan you know preparing executing on your plan and I guess whether you're a competitive athlete or whether you're just running for fun to raise money you still seem to have that real love of running I mean do you ever get up Elliot and forget the log, forget what my coach has said I just want to run today because I'm free and I just want to experience what it feels like absolutely yes our coach actually are leaving us free on Mondays Wednesdays and Fridays in the morning we are running as a group in a free way just run and enjoy running for 20 kilometers easy just the way you feel Yeah, yeah.

1:28:22How have you managed to stay clear of injuries in a way that seems to be quite rare? And the context of me asking this is, in the UK, and I think in America, there are various statistics going around that 60 to 80 % maybe of runners have to stop or give up at some point because of injury. Whereas you appear to be someone who, touch wood, manages to stay relatively clear. Is there anything you can share about that? First is that injuries are a part of life in sport. Injuries are part of actually a challenge in sport. But what I'm doing is that when I'm resuming training after a marathon, Then I take care of my body with a massage and making sure my muscles are good.

1:29:19I will start the first amount of acrobatical resuming training by going to gymnasium for the old man three days a week. Okay. Running on steps, lifting some weights, aerobics for the old man. That old man actually is really intensive, mixing with some runs. and it can actually, it makes my muscles actually to, if there is something going on, it can actually keep a sign immediately and I can handle it. And after that one month, I go to another step of actually endurance speed and endurance training to build my muscles. So two months actually of my training is building the muscles and actually like chasing the injury.

1:30:15And if you do that, you'll never get an injury. Or if you get an injury, it will be just a small injury. It will bite away because you can't prevent everything. But you have done a lot. It's 80 % chance that you cannot get an injury. Would you say you're good at, if an injury is starting to come up or you feel a niggle, are you quite good at saying, hey, look, I'm not going to do that long run today. I just need to look after this. Absolutely. When I get immediately something which is wrong, I address it immediately. Yeah. Yeah. It's good to address as early as possible. Yeah. Because I think a lot of people, a lot of my patients that I speak to, their work is so pressured.

1:31:02they're so looking forward to their Saturday run that even if they're injured, they run through and they often then get injured and then they're off for two months, they can't do anything. And I feel like I see this a lot with training plans, Elliot. I don't know your view on this. Of course, you are an elite athlete whose job revolves around running. many people with busy jobs and um i'm not saying you don't have a busy job i mean let's say a non-elite athlete let's say a busy parents trying to do their job look after their children they're trying to squeeze a run in at the weekends or they're trying to train for a marathon and they see a published uh training plan online okay three runs a week this one's 12 miles this one's 14 my feeling as a as a doctor is that sometimes we don't trust ourselves enough we we see the plan and we think even though i'm tired or my knees hurting i must stick to that plan because that's the published plan whereas i kind of feel we should be using plans as guidance but we also have to trust ourselves and go it's not the right thing for me today what's kind of your perspective on that?

1:32:21My perspective actually is that you should have a feeling of yourself. Feel for yourself. Am I good enough to do this established thing? You should have that personal listen to your body. If you listen to your body, actually that's really crucial. So it's good to listen to your body. Do what is necessary. It can save you energy. can save you actually not being injured and many things. It's really good to listen to your body. Self-discipline is something that I've heard you speak about before. You said it's very, very important. When you say self-discipline, what exactly do you mean by that? That's a crucial thing.

1:33:10And that's value number one. You know, in our camp, I set up a pretty huge field board. When you hand our gate, the second gate, you get a huge field board with 60 values. 60? 6-0. 6-0 values, wow. Yes. I encourage everybody to get 15 values. 15. After getting 15, they should narrow them to 3. Those 3 values, you should live by it, sleep by it, walk by those values, run by those values, relax by those values, go around with your friends, guided by those values. Then we come to self-discipline, which is inside those values. What I mean by self-discipline is, it's that sacrificial of personal passions and pleasures.

1:34:21That you sacrifice those passions and pleasures to allow you to do or to work on your career. how can you have self-discipline? The rule number one is to get vitamin N. Vitamin N? Yes. That's the rule number one. You need to inject yourself with vitamin N. N is for? N is to learn to say no. That's a vitamin. Yeah. That's how to get self-discipline. Secondly, setting your priorities right.

1:35:06Thirdly, is avoid complaining. Those are the three factors which can lead you to self-discipline. I want to tell you that doing all these things is not one night event. It's a process. It's like going to a gymnasium. if you go to gymnasium for 9 hours I go for 3 months who is going to get the muscles good muscles, it's me because I'm going for 3 months if you go for 9 hours, it's just nothing you destroy your body so it's a process it's a process, it's a real process that you can actually in the 3 month time you have absorbed the self discipline that's why I always tell people it's not a one-night event.

1:35:58To get vitamin N learning to say no in everything is not easy. Setting your priorities right is not easy. Avoid complaining in anything is not easy. But if you combine the three things you can hunt, self-discipline. And without those three, then there is no self-discipline. That's what I mean by actually trying to tell people self-discipline is the key to any professional sports person or sports woman. And I've heard you say before that the discipline, it doesn't restrict us. It actually gives us more freedom. Absolutely. I always say that disciplined ones are free in life. The indisciplined ones are not free.

1:36:48They're in prison because you are indisciplined and wherever you go, you know that I am not supposed to do this and you are doing it. That means you are in prison. In this world, we need to be free, walk free, live an honest life. And that's the way to go. Yeah. You're commonly known for the phrase, no human is limited. When you say no human is limited, what do you mean by that? No human is limited, actually. It's not applying purely to sportsmen and sportswomen. It's not for running alone. It's for all the professions in this world.

1:37:38I want that engineer actually to remove that barrier in his mind, that he or she can think and in a fair something which can help the world. I want that teacher actually to have the best mind to inject knowledge to the kids. I want that psychologist actually to have the best knowledge to actually talk to people and remove what they have as a problem. I want that coach actually to have the best skills to instill to his both women and men. I want that policeman to really know how to talk to people and to handle peace and security in his or her own country I want that leader to really provide the real skills of leadership I want those world leaders actually to embrace that they are not limited and make sure that the world is in peace and the world is developing towards a positive direction that's what I mean by no human is limited It applies to everybody.

1:38:47It's a universal thing which affects every human being in this world. And if everybody actually absorbs and grabs that press, no human is limited. He can wake up tomorrow and work. He can wake up tomorrow and run. He can wake up tomorrow and do anything. I want that student actually to get a first class honors because he or she is not limited. I want that person actually to get that expensive course and work on it and pass it. because it's not limited. That's what I mean. How do you instill this sort of philosophy in your own children? Is it hard? Do they see what you do and that inspires them?

1:39:27Or do you also have any sort of specific ways that you talk to your kids about things like this? I'm trying, I can always, to talk with my kids in a free way. Yeah. To tell them, I always ask them. do you know why I'm going to the camp from Monday to Saturday morning? They say yes. To do what? To train. After training, you go and compete. After competing, you win.

1:40:04After winning, then you make us comfortable and pay our school fees. That's what my children are saying. So I told them, you are also not limited. go to school, work hard, come and play and do anything else and you will be successful and they're accepting. Yeah. Yes.

1:40:26It's been such an honor, honestly, Elliot, to talk to you. You're someone who has been incredibly inspirational for me in my own life. When I go running and I'm feeling tired, I often think of you. I think, come on, run like Elliot. You know, that literally happens in my mind. I stand up a bit taller. I think, keep your form, keep your good posture like he does. So I know you know you're inspiring millions of people around the world. You're certainly inspiring this British guy here talking to you right now. Before we finish up, just a couple of things in my mind. Many people these days, when they run, and they try and distract themselves from the pain with music or podcasts.

1:41:15Do you have any view on the benefit of running with music and or podcasts? During the easy runs, it's good to listen to music and listen to podcasts. During the easy runs? Yes. Yeah. But with the intensive runs, I don't think you will listen, because you're just pushing your body, and music and podcasts cannot work. but with the easy runs when you are relaxing when you are at the gym when you are at the bike how up the bike podcast and music is really good fantastic yeah because you you can actually listen to a podcast for an hour and you forget that it was running for an hour hey so it's one hour the breaking two hours was of course done in specific conditions you obviously have shown yourself that you you can run a marathon in under two hours which is still one of the most incredible things i have seen do you think within your career it's going to be possible to do that in a competitive marathon?

1:42:24Absolutely. It's possible. I've demonstrated that I actually organized the marathon, which I personally, I cannot say it was in a specific condition because, you know, a few people actually are there to try. Not even there to try. There to think. To run under 12. Phew. I think I am the only one who has been there to think and there to try. None are there to try. Live alone, they have never even there to think, live alone to try. Just thinking to learn in their minds that, can I learn two hours? Never. So it's still a hard job for people to accept. But all in all is that I know running under 12 in a normal marathon like in London, Berlin, Chicago is absolutely possible.

1:43:29And where's that going to come from? Where's that improvement going to come from? Is it training, nutrition, mindset, shoes? I mean, where do you think? Because to me, like my kids, we were talking about this last week. Daddy, just another minute to go. If he can do that. But of course, at that level, 10 seconds is huge. A minute is like another marathon. Like, where do you feel that improvement is going to come from? To improve my cycle, we need to follow up many things. Nutrition will be there. Technology will be there. Teamwork, teammates, you are right. Systems are good, like teammates, those who are walking.

1:44:15People walking around you will take their key positions and all will be well. So I think if actually the right systems will be there on an athlete, after those right systems, Because if that athlete actually asks the right man, and he is really thin, and he wants to try, then he will run under two hours. First and foremost is that the systems might be there in a good way. But is this person actually, as he agrees in his heart and mind, to try to run under two hours? That's a big question. Which we should put on and we should actually make it actually before we tell somebody to come and try. You himself are going to need to come in a broad daylight and say, hey, I have taught enough and I want to try.

1:45:26Then the system comes in. And we set the date. It's so inspiring speaking to you. and I'm pretty sure this conversation is gonna inspire everyone to do their own version of a sub two hour marathon in their own lives. It may not be a sub two hour marathon, but it could be, you know, whatever it might be for that person. But as you say, you need to imagine it. You need to believe it first before you're ever going to achieve it. I think that's a very, very powerful message. Earlier, this podcast is called Feel Better, Live More. When we feel better in ourselves, we get more out of our lives. And finally, at the end of, for me, a wonderful conversation with an incredibly inspirational guy.

1:46:11I just wonder for people who are struggling around the world, they're struggling with the state of their lives, they're struggling with making things consistent, doing the things that they said they were going to do. Have you got any final words for them? First and foremost is that, you know, many people are struggling, many people actually have lost hope. And you know, when you lose hope, they say first and foremost is that you can survive with water for 40 days. But if you lose hope, it's only five seconds and you're dead. So it's good to have hope. And the other one is that we should actually try to understand about life and to know what life entails.

1:46:59I know that then it will actually help us not to struggle so much but to understand it work on it slowly by slowly and you'll learn all well. Ali Kupchergi thank you so much and good luck for everything you're doing I really appreciate it. Thank you very much.

1:47:18Really hope you enjoyed that conversation as always do have a think about one thing that you can take away and start applying into your own life. Thank you so much for listening. Have a wonderful week. And always remember, you are the architect of your own health. Making lifestyle change is always worth it. Because when you feel better, you live more.

1:47:54Thank you.