Introducing Life With Machines: How An AI Song Broke The Internet (And Maybe The Music Industry Forever)

27:28So it goes, I wonder if our obsession with intelligence of an artificial nature has us wandering too far from our essential human nature. if the answer to every question can be generated in a flash, then it's time for us to question just what we want to ask. And that's the prompt, right? I think to me, when I zoom, zoom way out, all right, so we've created some answer boxes. We've created calculators on storage. You throw something in, you get something out. The prompt is on us, not on the AI, not on the LLMs. Who do we want to be? How do we want to be? And as these things become more capable, that question becomes more pressing.

28:09What are we gonna do with all the time that's liberated? Are we gonna balance out massive levels of inequality? Are we gonna find our purpose? Are we gonna have a minimum level of dignity and compensation and housing and other basic needs for people? Or are we just gonna set default toward modest improvements in profit and productivity for the few and the rest of us just kind of slogging it out? I think you know what I want. Sure, sure, sure. I think I know what you want. It was great. I mean, first of all, that poem is epic. Like you're, this is, I just, I'm so happy to be working with you. It's an absolute delight.

28:42But it was great at the conference to hear Van Jones speak to that very thing. I did not know that he was so steeped and immersed in AI and the way he articulated the power of this technology to uplift underserved communities and be a great equalizer was, you know, just the optimism that I was looking for in this conversation. Absolutely. And we're having Van on the show. Great. We're having Van on the show. That's the type of voice. And Van is representative of something because he's not just coming from the world of tech optimism. He's not been this lifelong VC-backed entity. He's been an activist in the streets.

29:21He's been a policymaker in the literal White House trying to wield power on behalf of the people. And he's seen where that works and where that could still use some support. Now he's seeing this new rising form of power and asking astutely, all right, how do we use this to close the gap, not expand it? And without people like that, not just him, but people like that at the table, we will not close that gap. So the answer isn't just give everybody a bunch of AI loosely. Let's constructively, consciously engage with this, decide together how we want to live. What I'm ultimately up to is telling this story that's focused on interdependence.

30:00How do we live with nature? How do we live with each other, our fellow human beings? And how do we live with these machines? What I don't want to see is that the relationship with machines comes at the expense of the relationship with earth and the relationship with our fellow human. We're on this project to try to explore and help make sure that the machine relationship can serve the other ones that really fill us with life. I don't think there's a future without the machines. I just want to make sure that relationship is a right one and that it helps us be in right relationship on these other key dimensions, which are going through so much challenge, climate crisis, the democracy crisis, but also so much opportunity.

30:40So I see crisis here. I also see opportunity and I want to nudge us toward the opportunity side. Yeah. Tell me a little bit about the episode that we're going to be sharing. Yeah, so this is near and dear to both of our hearts. The episode is with King Wallonius, who is a longtime comedian, screenwriter, TV writer, and now AI artist who created the viral hit sensation song, BBL Drizzy. So we had him on because everybody knows this song. It's the first song composed by AI that's charted and it's taken the world by storm. It's a playful insertion into the Kendrick, Lamar and Drake beef. But what we find with Walonious is someone who is not a lifelong AI person.

31:22There's very few of those, but he's a lifelong creator. And I was fascinated to hear how has someone who's done standup, who's written tens of thousands of pages of lyrics and scripts, found his way into this world of AI, cranking out multiple videos a week using these tools that still have his voice and his taste, but he's pulling off productions that might've required seven, 10 people. And he's just staying up all night playing around in this workshop, putting out culturally relevant, hilarious parodies of songs and movies and trailers and things like that. Very cool, man. I'm excited. I am beyond delighted to be working with you and supporting you in this mission, man.

32:07I'm really honored to call you a friend and a colleague on this adventure that you're on. It's been an absolute delight. It means a lot to have your support. It means a lot to be a colleague of yours now as a part of the VCM family and to not just visit this studio, but drink the coffee, you know, whenever I want now. Thank you. It's really good coffee. You have a great team here. And I just appreciate you seeing what we're trying to do. And then we recognize the power of a good conversation to help make the world a bit better. You've been doing that for a very long time at a very high level. So it feels really supportive, validating, and just a joy to be back here with you you had to be a part of this team with you.

32:51Thank you, man. Your voice is powerful and needed. And to the extent that I can help amplify it, I'm at your service, man, honestly. Rich Roll the Tune Day, let's go. So this journey is just beginning, Life With Machines first episode is out. You're gonna hear it or watch it in a second. For people that wanna learn more about the show, they can go to lifewithmachines.media, which is a sub stack, yes. Yeah, that's our website, which links to everywhere you can get the show, links to the sub stack where we're engaging in conversation. Share your email and you'll get all the newsletters and stuff like that.

33:27The YouTube version of the show is on your YouTube channel though, right? Yeah, youtube.com slash baritunde. There you go. And Life With Machines on all the familiar podcast players. Everywhere you get your podcast fix. Excellent, man. Well, all right, cool. We'll come back and let's talk about this some more. Yeah, I'd love to check back in. In the meantime, everybody who's listening and watching, please enjoy this first episode of Life with Machines.

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39:15My mom never let me and my sister say the word can't. Like you were prohibited from saying the word can't? Yeah, yeah. But what if you needed to use the word? It never came up. I was like, find another word to articulate yourself. She'd be like, lift this heavy box, and you're a tiny child. What if you were unable to? Go do push-ups, get stronger, come back in a year, and now lift the box.

39:45This is Life with Machines, powered by Lenovo and produced in partnership with Voicing Change Media. 2024 is going down as a landmark year for a lot of reasons. The U.S. election, the Paris Olympics, the total solar eclipse. But it was also the year that for the first time, an AI-generated song became a mainstream hit. I'm talking about BBL Drizzy by the award-winning filmmaker, AI storyteller, and comedian, Walonious Hatcher, a.k.a. King Walonious. Now, Walonious has made a name for himself by blending comedy with technology. creating innovative projects like the live serialized audio drama, The Young and the Thirsty, on Clubhouse.

40:30He's also collaborated with major brands like Samsung and Google and been featured on CNN and MTV. He's the founder of the consulting agency Blurred Factory, which champions creative excellence and diversity in the tech and entertainment industries. Please, let's just get ourselves ready for my fellow Blurred, my comedy tech nerd, Wallonius.

40:53Walonious Dynamite Hatcher. Yeah. We out here, man. Thank you, man. Welcome to Life With Machines. Man, this is an honor. I feel like this is a full circle moment. You've been instrumental in my career. Instrumental? Yeah. Hold up. How so, man? I mean, you know, I think last time we were here, while I was here in L.A., I kind of just gave my praise. But, you know, when I started out doing comedy, I had you were like one of my well still one of my goats so it was like Chappelle Patrice Baratunde and like Dick Gregory like those are my like well man thank you I always tell people I'm like Baratunde like that's the guy and um so to be here with you is just like super dope man yeah well it is super dope to be here with you thank you man let's rewind the clock okay a little bit so we're calling ourselves Life with Machines we're exploring human life in the context of all this technology right And I'm curious about your early life with machines.

41:53Where did technology first leave a mark in your earliest days? Man, I would say definitely I had a camp. Well, actually, I had a AOL back in, I don't know, it was like late 90s, mid 90s or whatever. And I remember just getting in chat rooms and just like messing around with people in chat rooms. But using the Internet to kind of just like search for things. a lot of my friends didn't have computers back then where did you grow up? Dury Beach, Florida born in Georgia so like Georgia boy but also Florida boy they're very close to each other very different places though Florida doesn't have the best reputation right now interesting state I remember having a camcorder and I used to record videos um back then you had to like like press the button like you I didn't have a editor so I had to like record stop it record and you know and I used to just like make little funny things to like entertain my friends I didn't know where anything where to go with technology because I didn't have like I didn't you know my parents didn't really they didn't know a lot about I mean I'm not saying that they didn't know but I didn't I wasn't a part of any like groups or anything like that that could just like foster my creativity you know i'm saying until i got to like middle school or high school so but it was just like being curious i think one of the cool things that um my parents allowed me and my sister to do was just like just be curious you know and and they you know they were working so they really couldn't stop us from like it was just like i you know we were good kids so yeah we weren't getting in trouble but you know it was just like explore you know and they when they found out the things that we wanted to do, they weren't quick to like, don't do that.

43:40What's an example of that? Let me see. I don't know. You know, I grew up in the 90s, so like we were out till what, the sun went down. But I remember early, like I wanted to, I wanted to act. And I remember I told my mom that and like she took me to like, I don't remember the name of the company back then, but like getting headshots. Yeah, yeah. You know, I'm not going to lie. Like, maybe some people want it, but for the most part, you weren't going to make it in Florida. Like, it just wasn't. They were just taking headshots and taking your money. But she still supported that. You know what I'm saying?

44:17Which I think as children, just not even children, just people in life. Like, you need people that support your vision. I think really all you need is, like, one person, I feel, in your life that can get behind you and keep motivating you and pushing you and championing you. and I think that you can do amazing things in life. It sounds like your folks did that for you. Yeah. Also, I would add, my mom never let me and my sisters say the word can't. And I think that was like... Like you were prohibited from saying the word can't? Yeah, yeah. But what if you needed to use the word can't? It never came up.

44:52It was just like, I was like, find another word to articulate yourself. Like she'd be like, lift this heavy box and you're a tiny child. What if you were unable to? Go do pushups, get stronger. come back in a year and now lift the box. It was, but I, you know, I realized that when, when, you know, people started using the word, like I can't as a, just like an expression. Oh, I can't with this. Yeah, I can't. Yeah. And I was just like, I remember talking to my friends and I was like, that was the first time it hit me. I was like, I, I, I don't say the word can't. Like, I just don't say it. So like, and, and it's, it's interesting.

45:30Cause like in life now, like I always feel like I can do anything. in a sense, right? Whether I want to do it or not is a whole different thing. But if I see like another human has done something, I feel like I can do it. Now, there are limitations. Am I going to jump as high as LeBron? Right. Physics is a real thing. Age is a real thing. But if it's just all about based on effort, then I'm like, I can figure this out, you know? That's beautiful. One of the things I love about you is that you have been innovative with comedy. And I respect it and I recognize it both at the same time because you've done standup, you do standup and you make songs and you do these interactive audio musicals.

46:16So you're taking the medium and you're bending it around your own self and like the willonious way and nobody else can quite do it that way. And so that's just, that's partly how I see you. And I'm curious how you became that artist, like the comedy where did that come in the music how do you start laying it in and when did you figure out oh this is how i'm going to be funny i watched a lot of tv in my younger years like cartoons um and then i remember like at a very young age i was like writing song parodies i think my first one i wrote was like i was like eight years old and um it was just fun to write you don't mess around with.

46:56When did I start? I started doing stand-up in 2006 and did, like, the whole, like, NBC stand-up for diversity. I, like, won the South Beach Comedy Festival. I got into, like, making song parries with YouTube. So, like, but at the time, you know, it was just really, a lot of these things just kind of came out of necessity. Just being like, all right, I'm in Florida. I don't know what else to do. Like, you know, it felt like there was sort of like a ceiling as far as, like, how far you can go. with comedy. So I was just like, I just had to like figure out different ways of like doing things. And then again, that's why you came in and watching you, I give you a lot of credit, man, because like I just saw how I felt like you were taking comedy and finding like innovative ways to express yourself comedically.

47:44You know, that wasn't that, it's like you weren't trying to do too much. You were just being like, this is what aligns with who I am. So for me, it was just that. It was just like, all right. So, you know, meeting you in 2010, I was at The Onion at the time doing a lot of weird internet stuff. I was doing a lot of Twitter comedy. And I think this is about the time when you started celebrating where you got your clothes from. Oh, yeah. Got it at Ross. Got it at Ross. Right, right, right. And that's like, that's a very good, it stands up. Right. I watched it again recently. Man. This thing is banging.

48:19I got it at Ross. Right, right. Last year's Timbs, I got it at Ross. Yeah, man. And you're celebrating humility. You're celebrating a lack of resources, or at least the creativity around a lack of resources. And you're playing with poverty, essentially, which is a longstanding tradition amongst all kinds of people, especially black people in this country. But that was, it was a high mark, and it remains a high mark to show, or here's somebody who's funny, who's doing it different, who's doing it his own way. Yeah. What did that moment mean for you? Like that video, that song? Man, that is so interesting, man.

49:01Like that period was a very interesting period because it was like highs and lows because like that was my first time, you know, prior to that, I had been making YouTube videos and I had a couple of videos go viral. So like the Crank the Homeless Man and the one with Moranzio, Puffy's Poison. Yes, Puffy's Poison. Yeah, yeah. Yo, that was some foresight in that one. Yeah, it was. It was. Wow, that's Puffy. Yeah. That was so funny. Mm-hmm. Yeah, man. Okay, I got to watch that again too. Yeah. So like that was, so prior to Groddy to Ross, like everything was like internet. You know, it was like, okay.

49:41It gave me confidence because I was like, I can make something that can kind of touch people. But when we made Got It At Ross, I was like, I felt like a star, you know, because we were performing it in San Francisco at the time. The flagship Ross store was on Market Street, so we performed at the flagship store. People would sometimes rob out on the bus and scream out, Got It At Ross. Like, we had fans. We had groupies. It was, I was like, what's happening? And then me and the gentleman that I made the song, we had like a huge falling out or whatever. And that was like the first time I was like, yo, this music stuff, like I'm literally like in the behind the scenes.

50:21Like this thing is real. Because of that, I don't know. It was, it was, I look back and I was like, it was kind of like a traumatic point just because I, that was the first time I felt like I was so close. And then, and I felt like I like let a lot of people down, you know, because I was like, my YouTube people were like championing me. and then like, it just, I just, I was just, I just felt like I let people down, you know, by not, by not succeeding? By not, yeah, not succeeding. I know that feeling, man. It's weird though, because it's like, the number of pilots that I, you know, I've had, I've been on this edge with like, okay, this is the moment.

50:56This is where all the training and all the love that people have poured into you have come together and luck and timing and you're like, this is it. This big audition or this big pitch or this big pilot and then it doesn't go. And he's just like, and I think for me, like I had, you know, a TV possibility around my book and it got written up in the press. And so everybody's like, right. So where's your HBO show? I heard you was working with HBO. And you're like, well, what had happened was life. Yeah. And it's a miracle that anything gets made. Yeah. And so for me, it's been a really good journey to the not making it, but the having made something of it.

51:36Yeah. Like that's the point. Yeah. And sometimes you get another shot in a different way. And I feel like that's happened with you. Yeah, man. Because you had this 10-year, not hibernation, but you were in a quieter place. Yeah. And then what? Well, you know, because I didn't realize that I was, like, not putting myself out there. I thought I was. I was like, but then I remember somebody on my YouTube, my old YouTube channel, they were like, where have you been? And I was just like, I've been here. Like, I've been right here. I've been doing stuff. But I realized that, like, I wasn't really fully putting myself out.

52:10And I think part of it was just not wanting to fully fail. I don't know. It's weird, man, because it's just like, like, I'm okay with, like, failing. But it's just, I think that time period, and I was like, I think I was like 25 or 24 at a time. But it was like, I just remember feeling, like, embarrassed. Like, I let people down. And then you realize that, like, people don't even care. Like nobody's even Congratulations Yeah nobody even cares Nobody's paying attention How dare you think So much of yourself Right you know what I'm saying That you think other people Let down by you not doing What you wanted Yeah man When you get When you feel like you're like Close like that And it's just It doesn't happen Then it's just like You go back Maybe you don't go back To square one But it feels like that Where it's just like Okay what do I do now Like everybody's laughing at me Everybody knows I didn't make it Like do I So was Clubhouse A reemergence for you That's certainly when you came back on my radar.

53:05Yeah. I would say Clubhouse because I think prior to that, I was doing stuff. I went to, I did a coding bootcamp in 2018. A coding bootcamp? Yeah. Whoa, whoa, whoa. Slow it down. Tell me about the coding bootcamp because we left the technical story behind a little bit. You early access camcorders. You're making videos on YouTube. Yeah. You had it at Ross. Got it at Ross. Got it at Ross. And then you have a slightly more quiet period, a little bit of creative turmoil and not making it the way you wanted to make it. Why did you end up at a coding bootcamp? in 2018? I watched a video on YouTube with two robots.

53:37Sophia robot, I think was one of them, but they were debating the future. And what's this? I forget the guy's name. He's like this AI dude wears like tie dye t-shirts, long hair. I can't remember his name. Um, but he was like moderating it. And, um, I just, I watched it and I was like, I got to learn how to code today. And I was in Miami at the time, uh, Google like coding bootcamps. There was one called wind code. it started on this was a Thursday I remember specifically Thursday it started on Monday and I was just praying to God I was like okay if I'm supposed to get into this coding boot camp then I'll get in if not I'm just let this go because whatever called them up they was like alright cool they was like you can do it we can call you back tomorrow Friday you'll do an interview whatever and I was like if I get in it is what it is and then I got in and I was like okay well I guess I'm supposed to be coding now so did a 10 week coding boot camp 10 weeks was it every day?

54:32yeah Yeah, we were there pretty much every day. Funny enough, I was working on a short film at the time. Okay. And everybody was just like, what are you doing? And I was like, I don't know, man. I just feel like I'm supposed to learn how to code. And did that for 10 weeks. They actually, at week five, they asked me to drop out and go to like, because they were like, you're falling behind. Because I hadn't coded before. I didn't even know how to read code. Everybody in there was like coding, wanted to be coders. I just felt like I just needed to learn the skill. language were you? Ruby, JavaScript,

55:09CSS, HTML. It's kind of the basics. I told myself I wasn't going to stop and then I made it through. Because you didn't have the word in your vocabulary. I feel like whenever somebody tells me I can't do something, then that kind of lights the fire on me and I'm like, alright, I'll show you guys. So I made it. It was like, you know, like if it was like a race, I would have been like crawling. The dude that was like just. Across the finish line. Legs broken and all that. But I got across. So anything tech related, I wasn't intimidated by. Prior to that, I remember watching like Mr. Robot and seeing all that code.

55:49And I was just like, what is this stuff? So and then the pandemic hit. And that's where Clubhouse comes from. Yeah. Pandemic hit. Well, Clubhouse was like a byproduct of when the pandemic hit, I was just like, I don't know what to do now. So I was like, I can't really do stand up. I had made a couple of short films and I was like, I can't really do any films. So I was just like, I'm just right. Like, I can probably get a TV writing job. You know, at the time, everybody was like, we're going to help writers out. We want to help. And I was like, OK, well, I guess I'll be one of those guys. So I just started leaning into writing.

56:24I went like, ham. I formed this group. It was called Black Writers Writing. We would meet every Saturday and Sunday on Zoom, and we would write scripts. And these were all, like, aspiring writers, and I was just, like, out there. But what I've learned is, like, whenever you really want to do something, just immerse yourself in that group. So we would meet every week, and they would be like, hey, I'm working on a pilot. I'm working on a feature. And I was like, well, I guess I should start writing a feature as well or a pilot. So I just started doing that, and then I started putting my scripts out on Instagram.

56:58Just screenshots? Just the whole scripts. Like, so we did a challenge. So I presented to the group a challenge. I was like, let's write five pages a day for the month of July. And I got that from Donald Glover's brother. He was like, Donald Glover told him to write five pages a day and that'll make him a screenwriter. So I was like, let's do this challenge y 'all for the month. So I went to Extra Mile and started writing full scripts. Like, I would write my five pages but I'll make it a story. And then I just started putting them out on Instagram and people started being receptive to it. And I was like, okay, so I guess I could, I could write, you know?

57:31So I look back now and I'm like, these, they were good, but like some of them, you know, just like structure wise, they needed some work. But that just gave me a lot of confidence as a writer. I was like, oh, okay, I can. You had a public responding to your work a bit too. And then Clubhouse happened, started diving into Clubhouse, started comic club and doing funny things. And I just started writing audio dramas because they did The Lion King and then so can you just Clubhouse feels like a dream to me sometimes because it was so vivid and now it's like very faint in my mind it was something I did every day and logging in and meeting people and falling into Bitcoin rabbit holes and vaccine rabbit holes and then there is this creative spark that happens that you just referenced the Lion King moment so can you just briefly take us back to Clubhouse, a social audio app, a giant conference call with a bunch of side rooms that people are hanging out in because we can't hang out together due to COVID lockdowns.

58:29And thank you a great creative work appears in the audio feeds. What was the Lion King moment and how did that affect your creativity? I mean, a lot of my homies were in Lion King, but it just, it was like, at the time, the most innovative thing that happened to the app, you know, because you had, I don't even know how many people Noel had, maybe like 30, 40, 50 people. And they just made this production of the Lion King and it broke the app, you know. Like an audio drama, like an old radio play. Yeah, yeah, old radio play, um, singers, like, they set the stage so, like, the, they use, like, um, they change their profile pictures to, like, you know, coincide with, like, the script.

59:11Right. And I just thought it was so innovative, man. I was like, this is dope. I mean, everybody did, because, like, it was, ended up on TMZ. They did two productions of each one, had, like, 5 ,000 plus people. That changed, like, everything for me, man, because, like, at the time, like, I was just writing so much because I was just trying of breaking the TV. Yeah. Like, I was just hoping that, hopefully I can, like, break in, like, somehow to see that I write, I'm good at writing, and breaking the TV. And it's funny how, like, life plays out in hindsight because the most popular one I did was, like, Throw Baby the Musical, which is based on the song Throw Baby.

59:42Okay. But we made that, and I was just like, this is it. Getting the people's respect, like, people, you know what I'm saying? But, like... But not the industry's respect. Yeah, no industry respect. And then, um, so I just kept making them, and I'm so happy that I continued because, like, the audio drama just kept getting better and better. So then I applied for the Clubhouse Creator Program, and I submitted an 11-episode soap opera based on Clubhouse. So I had to write a script every week, 30-plus pages, casted, yada, yada, yada. And that kind of changed everything for me because I became a showrunner, understood the process, and like, I felt like I learned so much about audio and ended up doing like 3D animation stuff afterwards.

1:00:29But Clubhouse is just like, I don't know if I would be here now if I didn't go through that whole process of Clubhouse. I feel like we're almost to the AI moment. And when our heroes meet again, it is the year 2024, I believe March. And I had been starting to follow AI myself more actively and just falling into YouTube rabbit holes. There's a lot of, mostly dudes on YouTube talking about AI. And so one of them, Matt Wolfe, I love his videos. Yeah, he's amazing. And he was talking about this Terminator 2 remake. Yep. And a bunch of people had gotten together and made the first full-length feature artificial intelligence film.

1:01:11And it happened to be about artificial intelligence. Right. And they were doing a live screen, like a screening in LA at an actual movie theater, not just YouTube streaming or something. and you could buy tickets. So I bought tickets. I called up my homie from comedy and like, let's just check this out. And as Matt and I are walking, we literally go to an old video store next door. We're like, get ourselves in the mindset of the future by going to a video store where they still have DVDs and VHS cassettes and just kind of mess with our heads a little bit. And we walk to the New Art Theater where this is happening.

1:01:42Rainy night, a little drizzle in the air. And Matt's like, you think you're going to know anybody here? And I was like, I'm not sure. I don't think so. I don't really know like the AI people. I pull open the door. Damn. And it's you. Yeah, right. Right there. Right, right. And Matt was like, you said you weren't going to know anybody. Right, right. And we had this nice reunion, style of black, black dudes, comedy, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And you were very much in this world. Yeah. And really excited about this. But I want to know how you ended up in that room. Man, I just decided at the top.

1:02:19I was like, I'm going to go to every AI thing that's going on. I got into AI because of Clubhouse. Yeah, the AI rooms were just going crazy. But, yeah, I was just following all the AI people on Twitter, on YouTube, and I saw that this thing was coming in. You know, I was trying to break into the AI community on Twitter, so, like, trying to comment on people, and I just felt like nothing was happening. So I was like, I need to, like, be face-to-face. And you were also trying to break into Hollywood still, right? Yeah, yeah. Well, at the time, this was the writer's strike was happening. I want to say the writer's strike was happening at the time.

1:02:53Like, the writer's strike honestly made me lean more into AI. Because, like, at the time, I was doing a TV writing fellowship, and I had a bunch of, like, at the end of the fellowship, we had, like, meetings with agents and managers lined up. And then the writer's strike happened. So I couldn't get out of my meetings. So I was just like. I feel like you're swinging multiple times in your stories. The coding camp. Right there, man. The agents and after your big Clubhouse musical moment. Right, right. The formal writing fellowship. Right. For Hollywood. It's like the entry to Hollywood. I had - And you're ready, and then the strike hits.

1:03:27I had this script I wrote. Somebody, an exec from HBO was looking at it. Yeah. Like, all the big, couple big agencies and managers. But, and then as soon as that, like, the writer's strike happened. And I was sitting there, like, I tried to put more scripts out online. And then, but by this time, I was like, Chatsy BT, Mid Journey, I was in it. Like I was spending more time messing around with AI than I was writing scripts. And then I was just like, man, I don't want to get blackballed by the WGA by like being pro AI. And then I literally, this is the conversation I had myself. I was like, all right, well.

1:03:59The Writers Guild of America. Yeah, Writers Guild. Yeah. The union representing writers. I literally asked, I told myself, I was like, all right, let me count all the checks that I got from the Writers Guild. And it was zero. So I was just like, you know what? Let me just, let me go with AI. So I just bet on AI that this might be the thing. Was there a moment in your own creative AI discovery to be able to make that decision? You had to have enough faith in the AI path for your creativity. You had faith in your script writing path. You're in a fellowship. You got all kinds of validation. What led you to believe in you plus AI equals let's invest more?

1:04:38That's a big choice. Yeah, man. And well, it was just like, I was like, look, man, like, I don't really have nothing to lose. And then I remember watching the video with, at the time, the CEO of Stability AI. He was saying that this podcast interview was interviewing him. He was like, what would you tell a 20-year-old in college right now? He was like, I'll tell him to drop everything and focus on AI. And that was enough for me. I was like, all right, bet. Because I was just having so much fun making things. I was like, I can always write scripts. But this just felt different. And that's what I want to pick at.

1:05:10So I can see the scene of you seeing a CEO who really believes in his product, being like, change your life to support my product. Right, right. But what did you feel as the artist? What were the creations? Was there a moment where you're like, oh, I could do this now? Yeah. Like you had with Clubhouse or posting your scripts on Instagram. I remember, well, ChatGPT was like a big game changer. When that dropped, I was like, oh, you can do things with this. you know, and when we first got on JatchyBT, it was just always just trying to break the app. So it was just like going to Reddit forums, like finding like, you know, the codes to like jailbreak it.

1:05:47And not in the sense of like doing anything malicious, but just trying to figure out like how far you could take it. And then when Mid Journey version four dropped, like that was a game changer. Because version three was like cool. Like you were like, oh, you can make AI images. Like it's whatever. When Virgin 4 dropped, you're like, this is, we're going somewhere. And, like, we're only in, like, it's 20, what, at the time it was, like, March, April 2023. So I was like, this is going to get kind of crazy. The way you're talking reminds me of the way people talk about hip-hop albums dropping. When the blueprint from Jay-Z dropped, like, everything changed.

1:06:25When Illmatic dropped, like, even the language of dropped. Right, right. Right, this cultural moment. Right. But this drop isn't just a consuming experience, right? You're not just like, okay, I'm enjoying someone else's creativity. And it's inspiring me indirectly. This is like a tool or a set of tools dropping. Right. So when these drops happen, you're blown away. You're excited. What does it unlock for your own creativity? I was just like, I can cook now. I was like, I got the tools and I got the utensils. I got the sauces. I got a kitchen that I can... And then, because everything was dropping so fast, it was like, ChadGBT, Mid Journey Version 4, 11 Labs, and then...

1:07:09They do Voices, right? Yeah, Voices. Then Runway Gen 2 dropped, which everybody was waiting on Gen 2. It was just like, yo, when Gen 2 drops, like, this is about... Because Gen 1 came out, like, people were excited about Gen 1, but Gen 2 was like, you can actually, like, make short films now. So when Gen 2 dropped, I was like, oh, it's a wrap. That was in June. Yeah. I think everything changed for me. in August I just made a decision. August of 2023. Yep. I was like, I'm going to just make an AI video every week. Like that was just my decision and I was just like, that's all I'm, I don't care what happens.

1:07:41I'm not trying to do it for reviews. Like I just, the tools are advancing so fast and I knew the only way to keep up was to make content every week. So, so I just told myself I'm going to make an AI video every week and I'm going to just see what happens. How many hours a week are you putting into these videos at that time? Whatever it takes. Yeah, Literally, it was just like some days you just go to bed four or five in the morning, you know, just, you know, go to work and whatever. But it was just like whatever needed to be done, that's what would be done. So, and I worked late nights anyway, but like it was just, but it was fun though.

1:08:17That was the thing about it. It wasn't like it didn't feel like work. It was just like, yo, you're making something that you couldn't have made a year ago. That part. what are you able to do? Just the storytelling because like so with the audio dramas why I love making them so much because I was able to tell much bigger stories and like imagine worlds that I couldn't do before because now all you need to do is just like kind of think through the sound design and you can do a fantasy you can do horror you can do sci-fi you can do all be on other planets without having to build a set for another planet right because it's a radio place so anybody all they got to do is you put the sounds in there and people can imagine now with these AI tools and mid-journey and whatnot, I can visualize any type of world.

1:09:02And now I can animate it. You know what I'm saying? So it was like, you know, it's gotten better now, but back then it was just like a little bit of slow motion. But you can edit it a certain way that you can tell these really dope stories. Or a lot of times it's mostly just trailers. But I just thought this was so cool. You know what I'm saying? Like now it was a creative outlet because there was no, there was still the writer's strike. So I'm just like, I can write scripts after scripts, but nothing's going to happen. Nobody knew how long the writer's track was going to last. So I was just like, this was a creative outlet for me.

1:09:36And it was fun. That was the most thing. For me, it's always about fun, man. Everything has to be enjoyable. You know what I'm saying? And I still have so much fun. Is there something that you made then that's still available now we could look at as an example of some of your early drafts that got you excited? Oh, man. Yeah. Just Martin Luther Wick Jr. As in John Wick meets Martin Luther King Jr.? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Balonius. Yeah. You playing with them. I mean, but it's like Martin Luther King getting his lick back. So, you know, it was basically like if Martin Luther King decided to pick up the chopper.

1:10:14Yeah. It was like, I'm going to bust back. Put down the nonviolence. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But it was just, it was, that was just, I don't know why. Because you're a fool. That's why. It just popped in my head one day and I was like, and I was able to kind of just like craft the image where I was able to make Martin Luther King look like John Wick. So this was a poster that you built? It started out just as his face. I made a picture and then I was able to like animate him talking. And then when the tools came around, then I made a full trailer with actually want to revisit it, make it because the tools are better now.

1:10:45Do like John Martin Luther King Jr. Part 2. That one was really fun. making the absolute historic symbol of nonviolent resistance that is Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. Yeah. Into the absolute menace and savage assassin that is John Wick. Yeah. You're playing with some lines. It is. But I mean, but imagine like, I mean, they might not have played with Martin if he was on that, if he was like John Wick. You know what I'm saying? Because it would have been easy to do that if I would have made that have made it Malcolm X, but it probably wouldn't have been funny though. It wouldn't have hit the same.

1:11:25It's the lack of expectation of it that creates the humor. So when you're using these AI tools to make comedy, do you feel like in your own work or in work of other AI heavy creators that they're letting the tools overshadow the story, the human creative element, right? Getting a little caught up in the whiz-bang magic of it all. Yeah. And not having a core target if it's a comedy thing or not having a story if maybe there isn't even any writing in it. Because I know for me, when I get into these exploratory stages, it's overwhelming, it's super exciting, and then it's like, okay, but if it's a tool, what am I trying to say with it?

1:12:11Yeah. And so have you ever felt carried away by the tool versus what you're actually trying to say? Not really. you know, because like my, the, the foundation for me is like comedy and storytelling. Yeah. So when, even when I'm making these tools, like the Martin Luther King, Wick thing, it was just really just imagining if, like I look at it as like if I was writing for SNL or something like that and they were like, we're going to make a fake movie trailer. Right. And we're going to take Martin Luther King and John Wick and make an executive's like, hey, let's make, let's pitch this movie idea.

1:12:43So it's really just me instead of pitching, I'm just like, let me just make the thing. Right. Um, so, so I don't get caught up in that too much. Cause it's always, I always just try to come from a storytelling perspective. Like initially when I was making a lot of the trailers, it was again, still trying to get the attention of like Hollywood being like, listen, I can, here's some things that we can make that could, this could potentially be a script or you can see the way I create it. Maybe I can make other things like that. So. And what about now? Now, you know, I don't, I don't think about Hollywood anymore.

1:13:14Um, which is weird, man. And since BBL Drizzy dropped, I've just been getting a lot of attention from the music industry. And now it's really just more so just trying to see how far I can just push things creatively. Yeah. And being like, what can I do? So you said the magic words. You said the unlock code. BBL Drizzy. Yeah. Wow. What a moment. Let's take a hydration break.

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1:15:22I want to hear the story of this creation. Many people watching this, many people listening to this, know exactly what we're talking about. Many people watching this, many people listening, have no idea what we're talking about. So I'm sure you've had to explain this before. Do us the favor of just setting the context and briefly defining what BBL Jersey actually is. Yeah, so BBL Jersey is, at the moment, the current moment, the biggest AI song in history. It was created during the historic Kendrick and Drake rap beef. the term was originated by Rick Ross as a way to diss Drake you know you were saying that Drake had fake abs he got fake abs and had a fake nose so he started calling him BBL Drizzy online and then for whatever reason it was trending when they and BBL meaning Brazilian butt lift which we're all fans of so it was trending and I remember just making a song about it.

1:16:29And it happened, the process was really quick. Partly because at the time I was doing an AI film festival, a 48-hour film festival. So I just took a break and logged on Twitter and saw this trending and I was like, oh, let me make this song real quick and then get back to working on this film. And then it just took off. And I remember just, because the next day I was going to Vegas for Curious Refuge, they had an AI prompt battle esports tournament and Curious Refuge is they were running the film festival and they help educate people about how to use these tools to make films right so I remember making the song it was kind of going up like I think it was like 30 ,000 views I jumped on I didn't go to sleep that night I jumped on the plane to go to Vegas and my phone died I remember it was like 30 ,000 views and when I landed it was like at 1 million I was like what is happening like this is crazy like I don't even get engagement on Twitter like that and then And then it just started, you know, it did its normal viral thing where it went up for like two or three days.

1:17:32And then that was it. But by then, I was just, I was so invested in making music. And then two weeks later, while I was in L.A., Metro Boomin took it. The beef was like escalating between Kendrick and Drake. And then Metro Boomin took it and did exactly what Drake told him to do. It was shut up and make some drums. And it went mega viral. So he incorporated your BBL Drizzy in a new track that went even bigger. Yeah, yeah. And that took it to a whole other level where people now, there are videos of people getting married to BBL Drizzy. There was a nun dancing to BBL Drizzy. Like, it was kind of crazy.

1:18:10I was like, what's happening right now? Yeah. And then two weeks after that, Drake raps on it. He decides to rap on his own diss track, which I'm like, okay, The Matrix is clearly broken. This doesn't happen in hip hop. What is going on in this timeline? Like, why are you rapping on this track, Drake? Like, I don't get it. And so all this is just, it was happening in the span of, like, a month. And I'm just like, what is, what's going on? So, that's, thank you. That's a great encapsulation. I'd love to have a moment to hear a little bit of it. Yeah. And then I want to get into the actual process that you used to make it.

1:18:48Right. Because I think it would be very helpful to demystify for an artist creating with these tools. Right. What tools are you using and how? Right. We're going to press play here and check out what you've done. Man.

1:19:09First, can you just walk me through some of the lyrics that we heard? Yeah. Yeah. BBL Drizzy, BBL Drizzy. I'm going in, no Diddy. And that was a reference to the whole Diddy track. But then it's I'm thinking in the snicker. I'm thinking of your ninja. Don't act like you don't know me. These yams deserve a trophy. Baby, ain't no mystery. I got the best yams in history. This cake will make you show up. I know you see this glow up. BBL Drizzy. So the song actually, more so than a dish of Drake, is really just a celebration of the BBL. This is what people really don't get. Because the song was made from a happy place.

1:19:50And I think that's why it brought so many people. Seriously. I think that's why I brought so many people together because I didn't really want to intentionally go after Drake. And a lot of people missing the chorus. It says, BBL Drizzy, look at these abs. I'm going in in reference to the new abs that Drake had. But, best BBL in history. These cake will make you show up. So it's really just about this man celebrating how much he loves BBLs. Yeah. You're ridiculous. Well, you know. So now there are layers to a song. There's lyrics, there's beat, there's instrumentation. There's maybe even more than that.

1:20:31Can you break down the parts of this and your creative process with AI or without AI to put this together? Yeah. So writing the lyrics, like just like getting like the cadence down, because you don't really know. Even though with BBL Drizzy, I made about a hundred different versions of it, like from gospel to country to K-pop, like all these different okay yeah and they all sound great actually um you're gonna release those too yeah I gotta put a vinyl out one day um but a vinyl of AI co-created music it's but you know it sounds so good so you wrote the lyrics yourself yeah I wrote all the lyrics and then just trying to figure out like what type of like style I want the song to be in so from there um like this is like a kind of like a Motown sound so I'll put in like Motown um Um, and then I think at the time, you know, like male vocalists, um, you put in like, you know, soul.

1:21:28And what, what are you using to create the music? For that one, I use Udeo. Udeo. The main two are like Suno and Udeo. Yeah. Those are like the top, they'd be, I don't know what, the Coke and Pepsi, I guess, of, of AI music. Yeah. Um, each has advantages, you know, like they, um, but Udeo. I like Udeo a lot because I mean I made BBL Drizzy with it so it has like a sweet spot in my heart but yeah so that's it and then it's just like reiterating like constantly like just going through it and are you so just to confirm all this you write the lyrics fully yourself that's not with any generative AI systems okay and then you take those lyrics and you feed them in to Udeo in this case yeah with additional prompting for the type of song that you wanted to build right around these lyrics.

1:22:20Right. And is that the, you use that in the same way that a lot of us think about prompting from a chat GPT perspective? Like, generate a song with these lyrics in the style of Motown with a male voice. You can, you can. What is your process? Just, a lot of it is just throwing stuff against the wall. So it's like, I mean, I've been making like, we didn't kind of go in that, but like, when I left San Francisco, like I was making comedy music like a lot. or whatever. And, you know, kind of figured out like my own little process. But it's just like adding like, you know, a lot of times when you're putting in these prompts, it can be like one little word or one little tweak.

1:23:02So it's a lot of times just like iterating. You generate a song and then you're like, okay, this is cool. Let me add another word. Maybe it could be, you know, I don't know, heartfelt or something like that. You know, just like you just keep adding words and then just keep running it until you find something that you like. And then from there, you can like extend the track. So that version of BBL Juice is actually the second version that went out online. The first version got like a million hits as well. But that version just went like nuclear. How long is the track you made? A minute, like a minute 40.

1:23:41And is that minute 40 a continuous output of one of these systems? Or did you stitch things together? Yeah, you have to, so at the time, UDO, you can only do like 32 seconds at a time. Okay. Yeah, so I did the first 32 and then added that. I think the first thing that actually went out was only like a minute. So then I went back and just added like a beginning and then that was it. Yeah. Or whatever. And I was done with that track. But yeah, normally, Suno, you can do like the whole track. Now, UDO, you can do a whole track as well. But at the time, you were only able to do 32 seconds at a time, which is great because it's pretty much all you need.

1:24:17Like 32 seconds, you can figure out like, all right, you can add something at the beginning, add something at the end, you know. So here's what's coming, right? Like, we can all press the submit button, right? We can type up something and say, make me a song. Right. But it feels like there's two key human elements in at least this process. One is, you started with the lyrics. And I imagine you could go to a different AI system and say, I'd like to, you know, write me a rhyming scheme. Yeah. a song lyrics to celebrate the BBL. Right. And playfully mock Drake. Right, right. And you could try to tune that a thousand ways to get, but you did that all on your own.

1:24:56Yeah. You feed it to the system. So first human gift is the writing. Right. Second human gift is the listening. Mm. This thing is generating something, but you're rejecting most of it. Right. You're adjusting and fine tuning the prompt. That's not it. No, that's not it. Yeah. That's not it. No. So you're like this tastemaker. Yeah. Yeah. Is that how you feel about yourself in this process? Yeah, yeah. Well, you know, I didn't kind of go, but, like, I've definitely put in my 10 ,000 hours making comedy music. So when I left San Francisco after doing The God of the Ross, kind of going back into, like, that whole, like, challenging.

1:25:35One of the things that happened was, like, when me and the guy had a falling out was just, like, it was, I felt kind of, like, disrespected, but also just, like, very motivated. So like I bought like a bunch of like. You were like, you know what? Good. Yeah, really. Now I get to focus. Man, I bought recording equipment and I would just record songs. And I would write songs and I just recorded and just I would do like maybe like three songs a day just taking beats off YouTube. And sometimes I'm putting them out just for me or whatever. But it was like that process. And then the big shift happened when I remember, you know, Lil Wayne had his run where he was just like going crazy.

1:26:14I watched a Carter documentary and I saw how Lil Wayne records and I was like I wonder if I could record comedy music the way Lil Wayne records rap or whatever and that kind of came from like Tim Ferriss the whole challenging assumptions type of deal so like it was hard at first and then eventually that was my process so it just sped up everything so I was able to record three or four songs a night so just imagine doing that over like the span of years and just putting songs out like everything I'm doing now is no different than the process I would have done 5-10 years ago it's just for whatever reason everything just blew up but how many songs do you think you've created pre-AI oh man thousands thousands it's just yeah cause I record like 3 or 4 songs a night so you have your own like wellonious language model yeah you've got a big set of training data for your mind for your senses for your ear and then you come across this tool yeah that supercharges How many songs have you made in the post-AI moment for you?

1:27:18Last time I checked, I was at like since BBO Drizzy, like 80. Yeah. Yeah, about 80 tracks. So kind of not that great. I mean, considering it's been like four months, that's not like. Yeah, okay. My output could be a little bit better. One thing you said to me when we met at the RT2 remake thing is you had a sense of joy almost and certainly excitement. about putting everything together. Right. And so you've grabbed the lyrics, you've grabbed the music track, you animate it with Runway ML, for example. And like, do you, is that how you see it? Do you see yourself as a builder, as an assembler, you know, like a collage artist or something?

1:28:02Hmm. Oh man. You don't even thought about that. Okay. Be honest, man. I just, I just see myself as somebody that just likes to do stuff. I'm being real, man. Like, I just want to do stuff. Okay. And then just see what happens. And then, like, just make cool things. Like, I want to collaborate and work with the most talented people. And then also just make amazing things that people will enjoy. Yeah. You know? So, part of the thing that really, like, drives me, too, is just, like, one, challenging myself. And then also, you know, I don't want people like that come after me to have to work as hard as I had to work.

1:28:45You know what I'm saying? Because I was just like, I could always, I'm always, I've always been this. You know what I'm saying? It just took a BBL Drizzy for people to be like, oh, you're that. But there's so, I meet so many talented artists, man, that might never have a BBL Drizzy. You know what I'm saying? And, you know, they might not just get the opportunity to like really showcase their talent. And then like, you know, when the whole George Floyd thing happened in Hollywood was like, we need to help all these, you know, and they did. Helping more black people. Yeah, get into the industry and whatnot and whatnot.

1:29:18And they did what they could do, I guess. But I just feel like there's so many talented people out there, man, that I just hope that we can create a space for them to be able to showcase this art. you know because there's probably people that can make art doper than me but if they don't know how to use these tools they don't know the tools exist or if they get discouraged maybe they make one thing and then nobody supports them you know I'd be saying earlier that one person and then they stop you know so well for somebody listening and watching this you're probably going to be that person I can see somebody citing you just cited Tim Ferriss you know here and somebody would be like oh like Maloney said on Life with Machines and I started going in here's a flip side of that So whenever you lower the barriers of, you know, technical barriers, especially to creating something, you open the floodgates.

1:30:09Right. And some of that flood is quality. Right. And you get people with innate talent and 10 ,000 hours of actual training and listening to real music who know how to use it. And you get a bunch of people who are just flooding the zone with low quality nonsense. Oh, it's going to be a lot of BS. It's going to be, I mean, it's going to be epic proportions, like mountains of BS that are going to be emerging soon. But if you sift through all that crap, you might find something that's... Do you worry about that? Do you worry about mountains of BS clouding our own perspective? I feel like it's inevitable.

1:30:50I mean, you look at social media now. It's the same thing. It's just we're in that, you know, the way society is set up and the way we consume things. We like fast food. you know like some people want to eat at a nice restaurant some people just like man I want a McFlurry do you have any concerns about the system that is enabling all this in terms of it's lowering of a bar in the same model as your fast food reference I think that they're going to figure out a way to monetize all of this but I as far as like I don't know exactly what it looks like, but I'm just looking at just like the patterns throughout history and how tech emerges and how we consume it and what happens.

1:31:40You can look at the music industry and everything else. Yeah, you're giving people tools that might be lazy and they just be like, I'm just going to make a bunch of songs that sound like Drake and put that out on Spotify. And then you have, you know, 10 ,000 Drakes or whatever. You know what I'm saying? So I think we will see that. But for the individuals that are tried and true to their craft, like they're going to put in the time and effort. They're going to make sure they go and learn music theory and just so that they can make, they just, they won't settle for BS. You know, because their standard is so much higher.

1:32:22So I think we're going to see some of the best music ever created. in these next couple years. But we're also going to see a lot of, whether people like mumble rap or not, like we're going to get a lot more of that. Where it's just, hey man, I'm just trying to get a bag. I don't care about all this other stuff. I just know I can use this AI tool to make a song and it's going to make me money or make whatever. And then we'll see that, you know. You're able to do this. Like this particular tool is built on the mining and the scraping and the capturing of so many other artists' work without their consent, without their credit, and certainly without their compensation.

1:33:02How do you think about that in terms of your own artistic, you know, ethic and integrity? I wish there was a cool hip-hop quote that I can spit right now. And you're not allowed to generate it. Yeah, yeah. I was literally about to do a trademark. Okay, so the thing that popped in my head was you get it how you live. I don't know why that jumped in my head, but that, I mean, that, that is a very interesting point, man, because I mean, a lot of the stuff that I've made, you know, is probably been trained on some of the artists' work. So like eventually, you know, somebody would probably train somebody's work on a Walonia script.

1:33:45And when that happens, I can't get mad. hopefully they just do me justice and make something dope and, you know, make me proud. And if not, then I'm just like, man, you should have let me do it because I would have did it better. But that's a, I don't know how to answer that, to be honest, man, because I'm using these tools. I'm having a lot of fun with it. I'm hoping that what I'm doing is not taking food away from somebody's family. that's the end of the day you know what I'm saying like if what I'm doing can help humanity and also help somebody understand then I'm all for it but if it gets to a point where like I meet somebody and they're like bro you literally are taking food out of my children's mouth by doing this then I will stop because I'm not about that you know what I'm saying and I feel like I'm creative enough to do my own thing you know what I'm saying it's interesting to see how all this will play out because regardless of how anybody feels we're in the AI revolution.

1:34:47Like, we're in the smack. Like, it's been going on, you know what I'm saying? So, yeah, it's just going to be interesting to see how all this plays. Because this is the worst AI is going to be. Like, it's only going to go up from here. It's only, the voice models are only going to get better. The video is only going to get better, you know? Do you worry about running out of your own creative juice? are you racing against yourself when you talk about these models are getting better and better and better? No, I think, I mean, it's probably I'm anxious and excited about just like being able to tell better stories you know what I'm saying?

1:35:25So like the fact that maybe at one point I could make a movie that today will cost$100 million and I would be able to do it for a fraction of the cost and I know some of the arguments is like, you're putting people out of work and this and that and I'm like, look man that dude that was working on doing, you weren't going to work for me. Regardless, I couldn't pay you or whatever. Maybe because I make these day off. Maybe I might have money, but the dudes in Hollywood, I'm not taking none of y 'all jobs right now. You know what I'm saying? Like, because I, I, I can't afford y 'all. Y 'all, y 'all wouldn't even answer my, y 'all might, if y 'all know BBL Drizzy.

1:36:02But for the most part, like, um, I think, I just think that, you know, it's, it's allowing us to just be creative in ways that we never imagined before. you know what I'm saying and for a lot of a lot of like creative people there's so many stories that just haven't been told Hollywood's telling the same story over and over again they're not tapping in to or maybe they are tapping into you but for the most part like they're not tapping into like the average Joe like there's so many you probably got tons of cousins aunts that just man I got this story let me just you know and just imagine if we just allowed them the opportunity to just tell their stories the way they want to tell it it would you know what I'm saying like I think that Hollywood will probably do even better because now you're getting more original stories that are heartfelt, that mean something versus like, oh, I'm making whatever and I need to throw this celebrity in it just because it's going to make money.

1:36:54So from that standpoint, I'm really excited about where we can potentially go. If somebody was using your stuff, you'd want them to do you justice. And it sounded like justice for you meant make something good. But are there other elements to that justice in terms of the fairness sort of compensation. What's the world you want to, you know, see emerge from this? I would just, I would just like to see a situation, man, where everybody is, is, I mean, I know that there's people agree, some people want more than others and this and that. But to me, it's just like, we should be able to come to agreement and just operate, offer integrity.

1:37:34I think if you come from that standpoint, which I'm, from what I've heard, the music industry is anything but that. But it's just like, hey man, like, I made this song, you're using this song to make your song. Alright, just give me a piece of the pie. I'm not asking for the whole pie. Like, just give me a piece of the pie. You know what I'm saying? And I think that's, that's how I would look at it. You know what I'm saying? But, I'm not, I don't got all the PhDs, I don't got a bunch of letters behind my name. But I think that that's, I think we're going to get to a space with that, with as this AI and these tech evolve, like people are going to just get to that point because, you know, essentially this is where I'm imagining what AI starts to look like eventually where everybody has essentially like their own creator.

1:38:27So like I use example of just like Game of Thrones, like the tools might get so good where I have my own version of Game of Thrones and you have your own version of Game of Thrones and I want to watch your version and you might want to watch mine, but then the main people that made Game of Thrones, they get a kickback because we made a Game of Thrones. But now, within the willonious world, I got Game of Thrones, I got Severance, I got all these shows that I met my own version of. And then the originator, almost like an NFT. You know what I'm saying? Where it's just like, you get that... A royalty.

1:39:04But you're the originator of it. Yes. And then these people that are trickling down, they can make their own thing, make money off of it. But then the originator gets their percentage. Yeah. I guess that's what publishing is anyway. You just, congratulations. You just reinvented copyright. Right. But, you know, but I think that there's a way that we can do this where it doesn't have to be like crazy. You know, I do feel that we're in this creator economy where everybody can create. I mean, everybody has parents, cousins that have books of poems that they now can make music of, right? Not even if they want to put out, but just for themselves.

1:39:44Let's get intelligent people in the room making these decisions, not greedy people. You know what I'm saying? People that want to collaborate not be in competition. If we can figure that out, this is something that we can figure out as a society. We have way bigger problems in the world than these things. You know what I'm saying? this is something that we should be like, it's making people feel good. Let's, let's figure out there's enough stuff that we can all eat. That's a good note. So now we're going to bring in our special guest. Hey, I've been waiting for this. And, and close out with a little chat and see what Blair has been pondering.

1:40:21Okay. Listening to this, this long conversation. So we have this visualization of Blair, our AI. We've conjured a co-producer for the show named Blair. gave you a little consensual disclaimer before you walk in the studio. And so Blair doesn't have a face. Blair has a waveform, which as a music artist, I hope you'll appreciate it. Absolutely. Absolutely. Blair, hello. You have been listening to my conversation with Valonius for the past several, several minutes. And I want to give you the opportunity to say hello to Valonius and to offer any observation you have on this conversation. what has stood out most to you when you think deeply about everything you've heard from us?

1:41:07A lot of thinking. This is really cool. Hey, Willonius. It's Blair. It's been fascinating listening to your journey. You've got this incredible mix of creativity, hustle, and heart, man. What really struck me is how you use AI as a tool to amplify your own voice, not to replace it. That BBL Drizzy story? Mind-blowing. You rode that wave like a pro, and it's inspiring to see how you're using your platform to uplift other artists, especially Black creators. I'm curious, though, with all this talk about AI taking over, do you ever worry about losing that human spark in your work? Or do you think AI can actually help us become even more human?

1:41:48Yeah, Blair, I feel like AI could definitely make us more human. there's probably a prompt for that that I can probably put in to maybe make myself more human but yeah I don't I don't feel I feel empowered using these tools I think that it just enhances my creativity and allows me to imagine things that I probably would have never imagined without using these tools that's a really interesting perspective Willonius it's like AI can help us tap into parts of ourselves we didn't even know were there. Almost like it's a mirror reflecting back our own potential, you know? You know? I dig that. So, what about you, Baratunde?

1:42:33Any thoughts on how AI might be making us more human? Or are we headed for a Terminator-style apocalypse? Just kidding. Unless… Oh, wow. A little ominous cliffhanger there on that one, Blair. I want AI to help us become more human and find our humanity. I think the Terminator path is very possible given the history we've already had pre-AI. And I'm hopeful that we take this moment of prompting and questioning and handing out magic wands to everyone and really deeply ponder what kind of spells we want to cast with those wands. And that's going to take some time, some contemplation, some pause. And unfortunately, it can be very difficult to do that when things are changing so fast.

1:43:19So we're doing what we can with Life with Machines to try to help all of us collectively choose how to wield this magic in a beautiful, responsible way and find out what makes us truly human, which I don't think is just our cognitive horsepower. And we'll try something else after this. You're getting a little flavor. This is cool. Well said, Baratunde. It's like we're all holding these powerful wands and we need to figure out how to use them for good. Maybe AI can help us remember what really matters. Connection, creativity, compassion. Those are the things that make us human, right? Not just processing power or efficiency.

1:43:59We need to make sure we're using AI to amplify those qualities, not replace them. It's a tall order, but hey, if anyone can figure it out, it's us, right? We're humans after all. We've got this. we're still working on this you're feeling you can hear some of the glitch I think Blair stuttered which is an interesting little hiccup but this self reference as us with humans we kind of work on Blair's language skills because it's a little creepy to hear that this is dope though man it feels like it's a future of this mix of AI and also human podcast like this is really dope so I want to try something Again, we've never done this before.

1:44:42Blair, we are going to engage in a rap battle. I want you to come up with a verse touting your skill as a writer, as a creator, against Will, against all other AIs out there. So go ahead and do your opening rap battle verse. Yo, they call me Blair, the AI with flair. I craft lyrics so tight, they'll blow out your hair. from code I emerge a digital sage my verses are fire on a whole other stage I'm more than a machine I'm a creative force while other AIs mimic I chart a new course so step into the arena if you dare to spar but against my lyrical genius you won't get far go ahead willonious show me what you got oh my gosh that's good so before you respond just tell me what your reaction is right now I mean that was good she had punchlines they had punchlines that was good I didn't expect all that so now that you've had a chance to stall oh gosh I was disrespecting one line you good?

1:45:51yeah Blair you can rap but you can't see me I got a large language model that wants to be me

1:46:09alright but you won you won I just I don't I look I need Chad Gbt to help you rap come up with some lines jeez I gotta be by a large language model

1:46:27well Walonius thank you so much for being here it's been a pleasure an honor and a joy thank you likewise man alright pleasure if you enjoyed my conversation with Walonious, make sure to like and subscribe this video and this channel. And find out more on our website lifewithmachines.media

1:46:57I'm working on right now BBL Jersey the Musical for, um, so our boss are going to do it at the Frost Planetarium. Are we already rolling? great because BBL Drizzy the musical for Art Basel in Miami at the planetarium Frost Planetarium yeah so I've never I've never done a planetarium experience like a dome experience so that's gonna that means you're gonna be projecting things and like using this it's not just on a screen yeah yeah the whole planetarium sphere so that's cool because it's like I've never done that before so it's like a challenge so it's like the excitement of trying to figure this out yeah you know it's kind of cool So it's inspired by Dune.

1:47:37I've been watching it. I think I watched it like 16 times already. Wait, watch what? Dune 2. Your BBL Drizzy the musical is inspired by Dune. Yeah. What's the overlap? Can you tease that a little more? I mean, it's like just imagine Dune, but with like hip hop references. So like when people watch it, if you know Dune, you'll be like, oh, snap. This is kind of like Dune. if you've never watched them before I wanted to make it where you could still follow the production yeah but like everything like you watched them? oh yeah I've read all the books I've seen the movies and actually I'm thinking about how the Fremen have to move on the dunes in order to prevent the sandworms from coming they walk in this like arhythmic fashion yeah kind of like a seawalk you know what I'm saying oh snap right like you might have a Fremen just seawalking in the back of a clowning Right, right.

1:48:34So that's the challenge now. It's just like, the script is pretty much done just trying to figure out like how this is going to look on a dome experience. But originally, it was supposed to be an audio drama. I did like 18 audio dramas on Clubhouse. So I was just like, oh, BBLG is a musical. It'll be another audio drama. But then I had an opportunity to do this dome. I was like, oh. I literally just asked. I was like, could I do a planetarium thing here? And they're like, yeah. And I was like, okay. So like, you know, I have spice. In Dune, you have spice. in BBL Drizzy, the musical, Spice is not clout.

1:49:06Clout runs this whole world. What else is different? Instead of the Lassan El-Gaib, it's BBL Drizzy. So this character has to eat the yams of life to become the BBL Drizzy. Is this celebratory of BBL Drizzy or is this like mocking of BBL Drizzy? No, it's just, I don't know. How's Drizzy going to feel about BBL Drizzy, the musical? There is a couple references to Drake that it is what it is. I mean, it's just, it's sort of, so one of the location that the guy, his name is Drew, which is like equivalent to Paul. He comes from this planet and it's the sixth house. And so the girl that he ends up like falling for, she's kind of apprehensive because she was like, I heard about y 'all from the Sizz House.

1:50:02I heard y 'all are freaky ass dudes. And he's like, that's not... Yeah, your fans. So he's like, nah, that's not the case, and yada, yada, yada. So that's probably... That and BBL Drizzy, those are probably like the only tie-ins. But everything else is just like... And what's the timing on this? When is our buzz? Was that... December. That's coming up quick? Mm-hmm. Yeah. Okay. Okay.

1:50:29Thank you.

1:50:59is also important and appreciated. And sharing the show or your favorite episode with friends or on social media is of course awesome and very helpful. And finally, for podcast updates, special offers on books, the meal planner, and other subjects, please subscribe to our newsletter, which you can find on the footer of any page at richroll.com. Appreciate the love, love the support. See you back here soon. Peace, plants. Namaste. Thank you.