Life's A Fight. Don’t Let It Break You: Dolph Lundgren On Trauma, Stardom & Cancer

34:19He had some – invented some radio, various – those big radio gramophones, you know, where they used to have in the 50s and 40s. And so, he inherited – she inherited some money. So, I think my dad kind of divorced her, got custody of all the assets and then, you know, kind of moved her aside. And I think that's where he, part of it was financial reason he did that, I think. So all of this was obviously, you know, not very nice for the kids, but especially he was just unhappy. And he ended up in a mental hospital in London at the end. And I was there. I visited him a few times. This is, you know, when I'd been in the business for almost 20 years.

35:03And he was sort of in a different world towards the end. But I was told by my therapist that, you know, his type of bipolar conditions, you can medicate it. But, you know, he refused to take medication. So, yeah, he died a lonely man. But, I mean, fortunately, he was a bit – he was in his own world in one way. I think nature mercifully kind of just made him not really understand what was going on. Speaking of mercy, through all this work that you've done with therapy and kind of trying to make peace with your upbringing and resolve and heal this trauma, a big piece in that is recognizing that he was the victim of his own kind of experience.

35:59growing up and his emotional needs weren't met and his frustrations and anger and resentment. You know, he didn't have the outlets for help and healing that you've had. And so he's acting out on those impulses and you're on the receiving end of that. Hurt people, hurt people, as they often say. And you found a way to internalize whatever pain you were experiencing and channel it in productive ways. Like you can hurt people on screen and it's not really hurting people. Well, kind of, we're going to get to that. And that is the kind of portal to forgiveness and mercy. Because when you understand like, oh, he was just programmed this way and it's a result of the pain that he inherited and recognizing that this healing journey that you've been on is so much about healing yourself, but also interrupting this generational cycle of trauma so that you're sparing your children from that.

36:59And to me, I've been on a version of this myself, and I've just really recognized that if anything, that is the ultimate job of the parent, to kind of arrest whatever pattern has been passed down generation after generation to spare your children of that and set them up, liberate them from the pain that you inherited. Yeah, that's well put. I agree. Yeah, I think you're right. It takes strength to do that. And my dad didn't have that strength. He didn't have the ability to make that transformation. So just that makes me feel sorry for him. But I've seen old pictures of him when he was a kid in the 20s and 30s in a sailor's uniform he used to wear with long hair.

37:54And he's this cute little kid. He looks very sensitive. And I'm sure he was beaten and he was badly treated. My grandfather on his side, he was a very tough guy, army officer, hunter, heavy drinker. came from like a very poor upbringing with 12 siblings. We, his mom died when he was 12, I think, and he had to start working and support the family. I mean, a fricking nightmare. Yeah. I mean, just can you imagine back in the, in the twenties what that was like? So my dad never really got a shot, you know? So yeah, I think, you know, for me to forgive him and, um, And like you said, try to break the pattern of violence.

38:47And obviously my kids, my two daughters, they have their own trauma in some ways because I wasn't there all the time. I was an actor. We got divorced when they were in their teens. And so they have their own version. You can't compare. There's no scales. Yeah. Your pain is your pain. Your pain is your pain. No matter – and not for nothing. And like, had you not, whatever you would have done, like paint any scenario, like the optimal dad situation, there's going to be something. Something. They're going to like, okay, tell your therapist, you know. None of us are doing this perfectly, you know, far from it.

39:28No. And it's like, and that's why it's important ever to say like, well, when I was your age, you know, I was beaten three times a day. Like, it's not going to help them. No. But you were, and then some. I mean, after, okay, so I can't remember where it falls on the timeline, but you're at University of Washington, yeah? Washington State. Washington State, and then you're at Clemson. But you end up going back to Sweden and entering into the special forces training. That was after that, right? Yes. Which is essentially like SEAL team training. Yes. Why did you decide to do that? And is that just sort of like a cultural imperative in Sweden or something that you needed that challenge?

40:17I was drafted like a Swedish man during the Cold War. I was drafted and I was put in a coastal artillery unit, which basically we used to have coastal artillery. Sweden was in neutral. So it was, you know, you can never say, well, who's the enemy? But for some reason, all the guns were pointed eastward. So I guess, you know, towards Russia. But, you know, you weren't supposed to say like, oh, because NATO or the Warsaw Pact. But I was in that unit. And then we had an offer to join this Navy SEAL unit. But you had to go through a selection course and a process to do that. And I decided I wanted to try it.

41:02And that's when I hurt my ankle, actually, the first time, which I had surgery on only a few years ago. But it was a tough course, and most guys didn't make it. I think maybe about 20 % made it or so. And it was just another test, I think, to want to just impress my dad, maybe. You're burying the lead a little bit. You mentioned injuring your ankle. Yeah. This is another cinematic scene in the movie of your life where you're trudging out in the snow for God knows how long and you twist your – you roll your ankle or whatever. You just decide the solution to this is tightening up your boots and just toughing it out for another day and a half in the frozen tundra.

41:48This is the costume of the warrior that you've adorned and befitting of a soldier and speaks to that kind of relationship with suffering and the disassociation between mind and body. Yes, you're right. It's a strange domain. It's a shadow land where when you get pushed past a certain point, you're in another world. You probably, you're an ultra athlete. So, you know, it's like you don't know how you're going to react, especially when it involves physical pain and violence. And I always looked at myself as a peaceful, kind of shy and sort of introvert person. But of course, then there's another side that comes out, kind of like a Mr.

42:52Hyde. There's the other guy who comes out when he gets pushed to a certain point, which when I'm kind of there watching on the sidelines myself. Oh, okay. Now this is going to happen. And you're kind of just not even conscious of what's happening. You're essentially this very sensitive, artistic-minded kid who is anxiety-riddled and insecure. And had you had a different set of parents, might have grown up in Venice, California and been a sculptor or something like that. You know what I mean? But you're in the body of this guy. Yeah, like the dissonance between like the figure that you cut, your physicality, and like what your kind of internal experience is, is like, is quite the delta.

43:42That's what's interesting. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I have some, speaking of, there are a few people like that, I mean, that I had, you know, met in my life in this business. Like people like Sylvester Stallone, for instance, who had a similar upbringing, I believe. It's no secret. Yeah. It's similar, but also as an artist, very sensitive, and he has this other side too, that kind of warrior side. Yeah. It happens. And there's a certain – I think there's something in that that the camera kind of feels because if you look at the old movie stars like the Robert Mitchams and these guys, they were on the chain gangs and they were like hard drinkers and they had that other side.

44:29And then they had a sensitivity as well. And I think that some of that is quite attractive in cinema. So I just thought of that. Yeah. I mean, that ineffable quality of depth that comes across on screen without saying anything. It's like a look in the eyes or a facial expression that speaks to kind of an interior experience that doesn't quite match the physical appearance. Yes. That people feel that there is something else there, like that some, there's a level of kind of some compassion or something underneath, even if that character is like shooting people or like, you know, doing something very vicious, you still feel it.

45:15It's kind of, I mean, obviously a lot of actors, you know, play these sort of dark characters. I mean, they started like Robert De Niro or somebody, you know, I mean, you're watching him like. with a baseball bat crushing somebody's skull, but you still feel the character as being a human being and kind of having some sensitivity. Somehow it's strange. So that's where it all started for me. I was, you know, because I had those two sides, I guess, and I was lucky that I ended up in the cinema because I could use both of those. Yeah. Otherwise, I would have been seriously alcoholic chemical engineer somewhere with three failed marriages behind.

46:04Yeah, who knows, man. And in jail probably for killing somebody. Yeah, but God put you on a pretty unique path, my friend. I mean, so when I mentioned synchronicities earlier, what comes after this is you end up in Sydney, you're getting your graduate degree in chemical engineering. And just to make ends meet, you're like a doormat at nightclubs, like a kind of like enforcer out front. Cash business. You end up like kickboxing some guy in the face because he got out of line trying to get into this club and somebody takes notice. And before you know it, you're hired to protect Grace Jones or stand outside her dressing room door for some appearance that she's making.

46:51And this is the kind of first inflection point that completely sets your life on a new trajectory. Oh, yeah. I was so innocent back then. And I think I had one girlfriend in my life and I'm 25. You're 24, 25. 24, 24. Yeah. Yeah. And I remember standing there. It's like I have this sort of snapshot image of me standing outside and her kind of with some looking past the makeup artists, you know, over his shoulder and clocking me out there. And, you know, you feel the vibes. And then I ended up doing security at some club where she went out with all of her friends. And my sparring partner, who was another big guy, Australian guy was there.

47:39And I think she was dancing with him. I was too shy to do anything like that. But, you know, he was kind of hitting on her. But, you know, obviously, you know, we ended up going back to her hotel. She had a big suite. I'd never seen a big suite before in a hotel. And she had an entourage, maybe 20 people. And there was 10, then there's 8. and four and then suddenly it's just like me him and her manager and then he he kind of he he gets sent home and then finally the manager leaves too and then there's just i kind of realized somewhere in there what was going on and and i ended up spending the night with her you know missing a few classes next day and and i was a bit it was a bit of a shock for me i was a bit i didn't know why what she saw in me i couldn't put it together like i didn't feel like I deserved it, you know?

48:29Well, that sense of undeservedness is a deep wound that kind of recurs in how you show up in your life at various stages. Yeah. I think also sexually, you know, I was like such a amateur, you know? Yeah. I mean, you're so vulnerable and candorous in the book. I mean, you talk about like, you know, sexual performance anxiety and, you know, It's like people see you and they're like, what? You know, like how is this guy, you know, having this issue? Well, I did make up for some of that later.

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52:00How long before that experience and you, you know, after taking a couple classes at MIT, you know, and deciding like, let's go to New York, like what is the timeframe there? It feels like it all happened like really fast. Very first. Yeah. I met her like in April, I think it was. And then I fought in the Australian Open, which I won actually. And then I met her later that year in Tokyo. I went to Tokyo to train karate with the main master of that style. And she was there doing a commercial for Honda, I think it was, a car commercial. And then I went straight to New York with her. So that winter I came to New York and then that year I was supposed to start MIT.

52:51So I had like six months off because Southern Hemisphere, the schools, they graduate in December. So their summer vacation is over the holidays. So it was kind of backwards. So I had kind of a semester before I was supposed to start MIT. So that semester I was in New York. and that's when all this stuff happened with Warhol and, you know, went to an acting class, all of these things. So by the time I was supposed to go to MIT, which I did with her on the back, just to like check it out, see if I could do it. It was nine months later, I was, that's it. I dropped the ball and I just decided to become a, you know, somewhat starving actor in New York slash doorman.

53:42This is the montage in the movie where it's just like fast cuts of David Bowie and Michael Jackson and Madonna and Steve Rubell and Studio 54 and The Factory and all of that. But where does the impulse to study acting come up? You end up with this acting coach and that's obviously another decision that changes your life. Yeah, right. And another sort of father figure mentor. Right, yes. I met this guy, Warden Robertson, who was an acting coach up East Side in New York, in Manhattan. He worked with Grace because she was going to be in Arnold's follow-up, Conan the Destroyer. So I met him through her.

54:28And I guess I felt some urge with acting that it was something interesting. people on stage, you know, being emotional. And he was very much into the kind of primal scream. And he was into, he was a very perceptive guy. Like he could tell right away, talking to me that I had some issues, I had trauma, something with my dad. So I remember I did a couple of scenes there. And one scene was, one scene I remember was from the, on the waterfront, which is a Marlon Brando picture, where he kind of breaks down the door and he's like arguing with Eva Marie Saint. And he kind of, well, they're arguing. She won't let him in.

55:09He breaks down the door and they kiss him. And, you know, anyway, towards the end of the movie. So I did that scene. And, you know, before I did it, I did it kind of a bad version. And then he got me very emotional because of my dad. And you have to stand there and there's like 75 people in the audience. You stand there and he talks to you and then you kind of talk back. Maybe you speak to your dad like he had me speak to my dad and get really emotional and upset. And then, okay, now I start the scene. So I kind of did the scene and then people seemed to enjoy it. And then I said, wow, this is amazing.

55:49I'm like, I feel better now. So I kind of hijacked my emotion and I got to express it somehow and I felt better. then I had to talk to him a little bit later and he said something like, you know, maybe the reason you've tried all these different things are because maybe you're an artist, maybe you're not a chemical engineer, you know, maybe that's what you should do, you know, and I thought it made sense to me. So, I think at some point there, Grace also realized that, wow I kind of misjudged this guy yeah you know I'm not just uh you know good looking you know you know ass kicking you know chemical I mean chemical engineer who does karate but there's another side that I got sort of obsessed with acting and and uh I could tell that when I was on stage people enjoyed watching for some reason even though I was a complete amateur they there was something about me that people wanted to see.

56:51And then when I was like with Grace, people took pictures of me and stuff. They didn't know who I was. Yeah. You were a sidearm guy. You're at all the places, but you're the unknown. You're striking in your appearance, but it wasn't because you had done anything. You were just there with Grace. And Grace realizing like, oh, there's this other aspect to this guy. Maybe initially she thought that was cool but that becomes problematic later yeah then it started becoming problematic problematic i i started you know she helped me in the beginning and i her agent became my agent and then he set me up for some roles and i i started getting like callbacks for different movies and uh very quickly and um uh one was actually uh stallone was doing this rambo sequel, Rambo 2, when he goes to Vietnam.

57:44And it was a big hit later. And there was a Russian character in that movie that he fights this guy in the chopper at the end. And they wanted me for that. But at the same time, I'm also auditioning for this boxing movie. And it turns out to be another Stallone picture. So eventually ended up a year later. Once I got the role in Rocky, then they kind of paid me off for the other role, which is a lot of money for me in those days, about five grand or something. And I was like, yes, I got it. I didn't have to do it. And then I was doing the Rocky movie. But you're right. I started sort of accessing parts of me in the acting work that made me, it was pleasant in one way, but it was also uncomfortable.

58:34Yeah, this confrontation with your past. Yeah. When I read that, I'm thinking about how you can translate your pain into these superpowers. You did it as a student and you did it as an athlete. And now in the arts, you're finding a way to channel these experiences that are so difficult and translate them into some kind of artistic sensibility that empowers your acting career. It's so interesting. thing. You talk about, you shared that story about him encouraging you to have this conversation with your dad and you're able to cry on cue. And that's a direct experience of that trauma. But I'm wondering, did that make you want to seek more healing for that?

59:23Or was that just like, oh, I can use this. I'm going to keep it compartmentalized and chambered, but I can bring it out when I need it so I can use it as a tool or a utility. Yeah, I think that's what it was. I just kept it compartmentalized. I kept it as kind of a secret weapon to make a character more interesting or to get out of my head, to get more emotional would make me less self-conscious as an actor. And obviously, I sometimes think about had I not gotten a Rocky IV role, had I stayed there and studied acting properly, not just six months, but six years or something like I did with karate, what would that have looked like?

1:00:15It wasn't meant to be, but it could have been interesting. Maybe you would have been like a stage actor or like a deep dramatic actor. Could have been. Unfortunately, you're packaged in this incredibly beautiful body, and that was not your destiny. So you get this bit part in the James Bond movie, small little part. Rocky IV comes after that. Stallone famously said, this guy's perfect for the role, and people are going to hate him because he's too perfect. Yeah. Like your perfection becomes, you know, like the reason that the audience is gonna turn against you. Which I think is super insightful and also very funny.

1:00:59And this begins, you know, you go on this, you know, cue the next montage right out of Rocky where you go on this insane kind of training to prepare for this role. But it's the beginning of this very interesting relationship that you have with Sylvester Stallone, like a closeness, a kinship, and a friendship, but also not without its competitive nature and kind of like head-butting incidents along the way. Yeah. Yeah, we are destined somehow to be connected somehow artistically and personally, which I don't think happened to – certainly has not happened to other people I've worked with. And I think it's quite unusual for him too that somebody he worked with 40 years ago, we ended up doing what?

1:02:04How many movies together? One, two, three, four, five, six films together over 40 years. So quite unusual, I think, in the business. You train like a maniac for this role. You do the movie. You're doing ADR in post. You're not really thinking too much about. You're seeing some footage. You're not impressed. So, it seems like you're not staking your future on what's going to happen with this movie. And then you attend the premiere. So, tell the story of the before and the after of that evening. Oh, yeah. The premiere of Rocky IV, it was November 85 in Westwood at the Westwood Marquee, I think it was.

1:02:45And they had a new CEO of MJM. They had the marching bands and the elephants and the whole thing. And, you know, I came out of the limo and I'm Grace Jones's, you know, boyfriend, toy boy, whatever. And people are trying to get me out of the way, take pictures of her. And, yes, some folks may have known that I was, you know, the villain in the movie, but not many. I don't think. It wasn't like now there's social media and people didn't really know. and I sat down and in my seat and then you know the movie starts with these two these two gloves a Soviet glove American glove and I remember sitting this with my mouth open like For 90 minutes just staring.

1:03:36Because you hadn't seen. I hadn't seen the picture. And I didn't realize how powerful those close-ups were. Like this, you know, that they shot. Where, you know, the old tungsten lighting that illuminates your eyes. And, you know, and the big screen is very powerful. And the character. This is during the Cold War. So you had like a real. People are really, you know, people have feelings about the Soviet Union. and about that confrontation possible. There's a nuclear standoff going down, much bigger than, let's say, there's a war in Iran. Well, okay. But Soviet Union, they had 10 ,000 nuclear warheads.

1:04:15It was different. So I think the lights came up, and I was in shock. I think I realized the movie was super powerful. I was moved at the end. I was moved by my character. I was moved by Rocky winning, who I thought was the right way, the should have ended up way. And I turn around and everybody's looking at me for some reason. And I was like, oh, you know. And I remember Stallone had told me, just wait, wait till this film opens. Forget the Bond movie. This Rocky picture is going to be huge. And as I walked out of the theater, people are taking pictures of me. There's photographers everywhere and they're asking me questions.

1:04:56There's like press there. And I was a bit disoriented. I felt a little, almost a little ill. Like I sort of felt like, oh, wow, this is going to be difficult. And especially with grace, I felt also that. Just instantaneously, I kind of just felt that. I don't know, very disoriented. And I read somewhere that somebody said that when you get famous, it halters your development. Like you freeze at that age or something. Yeah. Similar to - Like Michael Jackson. I mean, they say that in recovery also. Like when you get sober, you're the emotional age of when you began using. It completely arrests your emotional development.

1:05:48Maybe it's right. Because if you think about people like Michael Jackson or Elvis and become very famous at a young age. So I think maybe I was 27 years old, 28 years old. So I probably had some kind of shock and it took me a few years to recover. Yeah. 10 years. Everything was different after that. Everything was different. And also, it was back in the day when you were either a TV actor on a TV show or you were a movie star. And there was nothing literally in between. And, you know, real movie stars like, let's say, like Jack Nicholson, he never did any talk shows. There was no press. You couldn't see him anywhere.

1:06:33Maybe in a paparazzi photo. But you could only experience that person by going to the movies. so it was like more of a kind of magical kind of a feeling when people saw you in real life yeah there was a mystique we didn't have a 24-7 news cycle where there's a whole industry around reporting on every celebrity's every move I think I probably thought you were Russian even though your name is Lundgren because there wasn't really anything out there about you but I was a senior in high school when that movie came out it was huge and I think also the way it was shot and directed stallone directed it um and um bill butler was the dp who shot a lot of movies in the 80s he had that fantastic lighting so it has this modern quality uh with the montages the music the freeze frames the big close-ups it's it's quite modern so i think a lot of movies that are made in the 80s they've aged quite not not that well like it's kind of hard to watch them now but Rocky IV kind of young kids still watch it and they can still kind of enjoy it.

1:07:46You become this overnight sensation as a result of Rocky IV. You have the delirium of instant fame and what that kind of like reaps in your personal life. And I want to talk about that. But on a professional level, now you're in the limelight. I think I've been in like 80 movies over the years. Like your IMDB is, you know, super long. Like you've done a ton of stuff. But at the same time, you're in the conversation with guys like Stallone and Van Dam and Schwarzenegger. And these guys just ascend to superstardom. And your path is a little bit different. Well, yeah, you're right. What happened was, I think late 70s, bodybuilding came like early 70s, pumping iron.

1:08:34and then Arnold did Conan the Barbarian, like 78 or something. And then he did, then Sly came and did First Blood. And then Arnold did Terminator, 85, I think it was. We did Rocky IV. Suddenly, you couldn't fake it. Like if you wanted to play an athlete, you had to be an athlete. And all these guys, they found all these, a lot of Europeans actually, like van damme myself and uh schwarzenegger then you had stallone uh you also had uh seagal came up you had to have the abs you had to have the body you had to be able to to look like you could kick ass you had to be able to run and jump and do everything yourself because uh there was this new kind of body culture and and this you you didn't have cgi yet so you couldn't use a stunt guy so there's that period between like say late 70s until 1988 where i think was 88 or 89 when um um tim burton put a uh michael keaton in a muscle suit and michael keaton did the acting and then he had the suit for the muscles and then he we had they probably had a couple of doubles to the fighting and that changed things quite a bit so i came 90 or 91 maybe 90 yeah when he came out so So in between there, that was when we started.

1:10:01And of course, you know, I was in the same group as Stallone and Arnold and these guys. Obviously, they're older than me. But I think the difference was that Arnold, he was a very driven guy. He had a plan. He wanted to be Mr. Universe. And he wanted to be a movie star. And then he wants to be governor. And Sly was an artist, you know. He was a good writer. Van Damme also is a very clever business guy. You know, I was just this kid who, you know, a couple of years earlier was going to MIT and hitting the bag, you know, and now suddenly I'm a movie star. So I didn't really know how to proceed. So I kind of I got some bad advice.

1:10:50I would say now in retrospect, some of my advisors and managers weren't just the best people in the business. And, you know, I still survived by just sheer, you know, perseverance. But I don't think I, you know, really I wasn't really focused on the right projects, on my craft, on these things. Either it was like take a business approach like Arnold or take like a creative approach like Stallone, somewhere in between. But I didn't really take any of that. I just kind of followed what people told me. So for me, it was a tough time, you know. I did movies that I did fairly well. A couple of, four, I'd say three or four movies after Rocky IV.

1:11:35And then it kind of started petering out because I didn't have Stallone to look out for me. I didn't have MGM. I didn't have a good director as a good script. So I think it became more of a struggle, like early 90s. From there on, it sort of became more of a struggle. My trauma started to kind of come up and make itself, you know, announce itself in my private life. uh i started to kind of you know partying a little harder and doing crazier stuff on the stunt front and training and and yeah so i kind of it was it was um yeah the sort of initial allure of fame was kind of given away to sort of a day-to-day kind of a more of a harder existence You have these guys like Arnold and Sly.

1:12:34They're on a mission. They came to Hollywood with a dream and a purpose. They've been imagining a cake they've been baking for a very long time, and they will not be denied. You show up like, oh, maybe I'll take some acting class. This is all kind of happening to you. You didn't arrive with that degree of intention that you've been thinking about for a long time. So there's that piece. Then you have Arnold, who's just, have you ever met anyone with more self-confidence and charisma? He had this self-belief. He was going to manifest this no matter what, and he could just see it happening. Then we have you.

1:13:14Not only are you kind of new to town and like, yeah, you're getting some acting chops and you're getting a bunch of attention, but you're sort of a deer in headlights in this situation. You hadn't really thought it through. You have this amazing break with Rocky IV, but was there even a plan about how to build upon that afterwards? Not to mention this insecure kind of anxiety riddled inner child. you said the trauma started to create some negative behaviors in the aftermath of this, not the least of which I would imagine was just a sense of undeservedness. Like, hey, I'm lucky. I don't know that I really, I'm not Arnold or I'm not this guy.

1:14:01And maybe that manifested as a little self-sabotage or just a lack of self-belief. I don't want to project upon you but i'm curious around like how you think about it in that context like the relationship to your childhood and and how you you know what your inner monologue was at that time when all that was happening um you know having a lack of a vision and a plan from the beginning you know makes you a little less uh focused you know because you don't really know what you're looking for. Obviously, fame was great. I was single. I'm meeting a lot of young, pretty girls, a lot of new friends. I could work out.

1:14:41I could travel around the world. I could enjoy fame, make money I didn't have before. There was a lot of new aspects to it that were quite seductive you know I think also I kind of knew on a deep level that I did have this problem this trauma that kind of addictive personality could be addictive to stunts or training or could be addictive to drugs or alcohol or yeah you call them escape behavior escape behavior yeah I heard about that you you know you have I talk about it in the book where you you know you're trying to escape something that's inside you. It's like a soldier drinking or being involved in violence or sexual affairs, but you have to deal with what's there.

1:15:32Or body perfection, like the training. Or that too. I had all of those escape behavior. And I think what happened was early in the 90s, my mother passed away in 92. She was quite young, only 60. And yeah, she didn't protect me, but I loved her and she was a very gentle, very loving, sweet person. Never heard her raise her voice or do anything negative once, I think, in her life. She was one of those people, just very giving. And it was a bit of a shock to me. She passed away very suddenly. And I met this Swedish girl in New York and I got engaged to her and I wanted to replace my mom, I think.

1:16:19And this girl, she was great at that time. She hated LA, didn't like Hollywood at all. So we ended up moving to New York first and then eventually we moved back to Europe. And I think part of that was to satisfy her. And the other part was maybe I had a feeling that I didn't have the strength to survive maybe in Hollywood with my trauma and I would have self-destructed perhaps like I started when I was a kid before my dad got me up to my grandparents. So I went back to Europe and kind of removed myself from Hollywood scene a little bit. And so I think that affected my career, you know, because once you're gone, once you even go to Miami, you know, it's not the same thing as being in LA.

1:17:07but going to Marbella, Spain 7 ,000 kilometers from here 5 ,000 miles from here that impacted my career quite substantially I wanted to have a family with her and I think I wanted to have a normal life somehow and I felt that I wasn't cut out for Hollywood maybe at that time I was doing movies but I wanted a bit of a she wanted the distance And I think I didn't mind either. I was kind of led along there. I don't know if it would have been better to stay smack in the middle of Hollywood or if that would have been a very negative thing for me. I could have gotten in trouble in all kinds of ways.

1:17:54Yeah, I mean, it sounds like self-preservation to get out of there, to spare yourself the pain of your inevitable demise if you kind of stayed here. If we had a People magazine from 1989 and took a look and see who was still around, there'd be a lot of people who would never be dead or gone. Yeah, of course. A lot of casualties. And also, as much as I romanticize Studio 54 of it all, a lot of those people died. Yeah, they did. This was not for the weak of heart at all. And it just, everything is preying on your baser instincts to behave badly. And if you're already prone to that kind of behavior because of your past, it's not gonna go well.

1:18:45So I think it was a survival mechanism to get out of town. Um, also not for nothing, like the chaos of how your relationship with grace ended. I mean, when the power dynamic shifted and you are no longer the arm piece and now you're the center of attention, like that relationship becomes dysfunctional. Uh, she is challenged by that. And, you know, there's a lot of insane behavior. There's throwing bricks and voodoo dolls and like burning your pictures and your clothes and, you know, guns and all kinds of stuff. Right. And this sort of codependency aspect to that relationship that you have to extract yourself out of that.

1:19:25And you find a net and it's like, oh, this feels like home. This feels stable. Your mom has passed away. I can build a life with this person. This is a way of saving myself. I think you're right. Yeah, I did. I think my last picture that went on the big screen, it was Universal Soldier, was 1992, around the time I met Annette. And then I think we had one more Johnny Mnemonic with John Keanu Reeves. But after that, I wasn't on the big screen until 2010. So that's, what is that, 17 years later. This Johnny Mnemonic movie provided you with the opportunity to return to Sweden and do some press. Yeah, and also later I did this thing called Summer.

1:20:13I was a summer host. It was a radio show where you play music and you talk about your life. This is quite a bit later, and I did that. My oldest daughter was quite young, and I decided the producer, the female producer, had told me when I told her my story, oh, the thing about your dad is really good. You should talk about that. So I did the summer, this radio show, when I spoke about my relationship to my dad. And it starts with me being a kid, sitting on his shoulders, and we're watching the changing of the guards, and they play some Swedish famous march. And it starts there, and then it goes, everything that happens between that moment and the moment Rocky IV opened.

1:20:59So that's the whole thing that the Swedes did not know about me. And when I did that and I got very emotional speaking about it, that changed everything in Sweden. And after that, they kind of took me to heart. They embraced you. You went from pariah to hero in one interview. More or less. What's interesting about that to me is it demonstrates the power of vulnerability as a vehicle for connection. Like by you having the courage to like share that very, you know, intimate story about your upbringing. And I don't know what the culture was like in Sweden at that time around talking about this kind of stuff, but obviously that really connected with people and they were able to see your humanity and that allowed them to, you know, form a new story around like who you, who you are.

1:21:51And perhaps that's the first time that you had that kind of direct encounter with being honest and open as this stoic person who's always armored up and thinking that's the way to connect with people and realizing, no, it's this other way. Yeah, you're right. It was true then and it's true now, I think, that people, you know, especially in our world, I mean, there's so much that's manufactured and that is, you know, either AI or CGI or, you know, planned by, no offense to anybody here, publicists. You know, everything is like, it's a story that's been rehearsed. But if you're honest about things, it can be quite powerful, I think.

1:22:39Did you clock that at that time? Like, were you consciously aware? I didn't know it was going to be like that, but I had a feeling that I wanted to be honest about it. because I also, my kids never knew what was, what's wrong with our dad. Like, why is he like that? Like, why does he go out drinking? Why is he, why doesn't he connect sometimes? And they weren't sure, they didn't know what had happened to me. But my daughter was there and, you know, kids are very, she was little, but, you know, kids are very emotional. So she started crying too towards the end because I was getting emotional and they just pick it up, right?

1:23:24And I think, you know, I told them the story after that too about my dad. I had never told them what had happened to me. So it sort of opened up a whole other world for me where I realized, well, this can actually be a positive thing for me. It doesn't have to be a secret that makes me feel bad. It's almost the opposite. it as somebody who was so used to or acclimated to like cutting a certain pose and making sure that you were protected behind this mask of you know ultimate masculinity um i would imagine there was a sense of like fear or risk about like sharing that publicly for the first time and thinking like how are people going to they're going to think about me differently now now i'm vulnerable like i'm supposed to be the ultimate warrior you know yeah i mean i've been through it a few times and lately with the cancer and then you know at that time it was the first time that i was that i opened up and it felt really good and it made me feel better than what i felt when i was acting or better than i felt you know almost any time in my life to share things and to share my story and my pain was making me feel better.

1:24:44And I also think because I wasn't using, I wasn't really getting dramatic roles where I could express it that much. Like it wasn't like, you know, family dramas or anything. It was like, you know, an action guy. Yeah, he gets upset, you know, when his buddy dies or something. But it's, you know, kind of - Goes a killing spree. Yeah, exactly. So I couldn't use my work either to express it. But I think, yeah, it was a great feeling. And I wish I would have done more of it. But over the years, I've shifted more, I think, into that space of trying to share some wisdom, I guess, or some emotions that maybe other people can relate to.

1:25:32Yeah. You're in Marbella. You're making movies. you're doing your thing, you're raising your kids, maybe drinking a little bit too much. Yeah. Marriage maybe not going so great, but it's a life. Then 2010 rolls around, your brother Sly gives you a call and you're kind of back in the game again with this Expendables movie, which you build upon and you're kind of back doing interesting things again. There is this second or third act where you're doing larger projects than you have in a long time. And 2015 rolls around. Yeah, well, what happened was first I knew I had to move back to the States for my finances, for my career.

1:26:27It was basically I took a 90 % salary cut between, say, 1993 when I moved to like 2000 and whatever, 2005. And my wife didn't want to move. And we ended up having a lot of problems. And I got divorced in 2010. Moved back to LA. Sly had called me for Expendables. That was a hit. and now I'm sort of on the path to doing other things. And I am getting more, I'm getting into therapy. I'm doing meditation. I started working with my - What prompted that? I was in another relationship with another woman, a Swedish girl actually, and she, and I knew I was going to screw it up. I knew I was going to, I have to do something.

1:27:21I was still drinking too much. I was flirting with other women and I figured, and she was the one who told me about the meditation. And then another - Vipassana, it was Vipassana, right? Yeah, Vipassana. That you started practicing, yeah. Vipassana and also I, somebody said, you know, you should try therapy because I was my, an actor, a friend of mine. And I, so I got into both and it started changing my life and I started feeling much better, You know, less anxious, you know, less escape behavior. And then 2015 rolls around, like you said, and I'm in Sweden doing some karate training. I thought I had got kicked in the kidney or something because I had blood in the urine, but it turned out to be kidney cancer.

1:28:10So, you know, this is, I didn't tell anybody. And I still ended up doing another Expendables. I ended up doing Aquaman. I did Creed II. I went to, had surgery. But five years later, I was supposed to be cancer-free, 2020. So that was a period of personal growth, I guess, back in LA, career, picked up again. And then in 2020, the cancer came back. Hmm. 2015, kidney cancer diagnosis. You treat it, it goes into remission. You don't really tell anyone what's going on. Is that because you're afraid that it will cost you roles or is it just this protective armor of trying to maintain this aura of invincibility?

1:29:06Is it a trauma response, Like you don't want to show weakness or you don't want the people around you, your children, to have to suffer. So you're going to suffer in silence? I think it had more to do with my career. I was afraid that it would change my image or people weren't going to offer me any work. I mean, I kids knew about it. I told them. I had a vacation in Europe and we were on the yacht, I remember. and I told both my daughters. It was in Italy. And they both were crying, of course. I told them that I had a tumor in my kidney and we're going to take it out. So they knew about it, but not a lot of other people did.

1:29:51I think it was just, I didn't know where to start. I was scared. I didn't want people to, you know, think that I was going to die and not offer me any movies. I think a combination, and also not to bother other people, you know, like to feel sorry for me, friends. And, you know, my kids knew and some of my close friends, but, you know, the rest of the world. I didn't want them to have to worry about me, I guess. And work becomes an easy and accessible escape behavior. Yes, work became even more accessible. I did a lot of roles. I did my own stunts, a lot of stuff in Aquaman 2, Aquaman 1. I did Creed 2.

1:30:47I did a bunch of action movies, kept training. Also, I was taking steroids. I was taking HGH, stuff that can enhance tumor growth. I was just on a kind of like in a testosterone kick. That was like a 10-year period of that. Yeah. My movies, all my movies, because of my movies and also because of sports and some things I was doing, fighting and other things I was doing. But I think it was also not knowing how to slow down. I didn't know how to stay home and read a book or anything like that or stay on the couch. And I couldn't even think about doing that. So now I can, but I couldn't. So chemical engineer, advanced degrees in chemical engineering gets his hands on steroids.

1:31:43Yeah. Like what is that? Like that had to be you being some kind of mad scientist at that point, experimenting on yourself. and well yeah the experimentation started earlier in the 80s but i think it was more like a guy who was really into his body and um and you know wanting to see you know how far can i take it and hear oh this stuff's supposed to be good no i don't i recover faster i get bigger muscles and a lot of other guys are doing it and you know when you're 30 years old you don't think of I don't think of any repercussions or anything negative. So I did it on and off when I was younger.

1:32:27And then I was off it for a while and I would do it a little bit and keep doing it. And I think after the cancer, the first cancer scare, I think I was afraid of feeling weak. So I went back. You did it after. Wow, that's interesting. Yeah. Yeah. Listen, muscles aren't the only thing that these things grow. No. You know? No. Really, that's like high risk behavior. Yes. To do that. It is. And even now, actually, I was talking to my oncologist about it. You know, a lot of these new wellness, longevity medications. The peptides and all. Yeah. Yeah. People haven't taken them long enough for there to be enough evidence or scientific evidence to what it really does.

1:33:18You know? So who knows what it's gonna look like 20 years from now. Yeah. So you survived that first bout with cancer. You go into remission. 2020 rolling around, peak COVID. Everyone's shut down. Everything's shut down. I was doing a movie in Alabama and it gets shut down because, actually I was directing, and it got shut down because of COVID. And somebody says, hey, don't come back to LA. It's even worse. Alabama is a little more open. So we stay there, me and my wife, Emma, my new wife. I was not married to her yet. I was seeing her. And then somebody said, well, Sweden is really open. You should go to Sweden.

1:34:10So I went to Sweden. And same thing happened. Like the first time I was training. and I started feeling a bit ill. I went for a CAT scan and there was another tumor. There was like six tumors in that same area where they'd taken the one out. So I wasn't an expert, but I knew enough about cancer where you have six more tumors in that area. It's not a good sign. And it was the week that I'd planned to ask Emma to marry me. And it wasn't very easy to plan that because it was during COVID. I had special permission to use this roof terrace and I had hired violinists and my friends were going to show up.

1:34:53And this was like on Thursday and on Tuesday I found out. So I was like, oh, shit, you know, what am I going to do? I bought the ring and everything. So I just, I'm just, I'll go ahead and do it anyway. So I went ahead and did it. And we got engaged. But obviously there was kind of a. And then by the way. By the way, yeah. I mean, it had like spread all over. Well. It wasn't just. No, it hadn't spread yet. It was there around the kidney. And what happened was I went back to America. I had surgery again, the same hospital. And then I went back and finished that picture, the one that was put on hold because of COVID.

1:35:37And then they realized, oh, it spread a little bit. And I was going to get rid of that. And then they couldn't do it. The tumor had gotten too big. So they gave me immunotherapy, which is when you take drugs, IV drugs, and they help you boost your own immune system. But they have bad side effects, like you get sores on your feet and your mouth. You can get blood cloths in your lungs, which I did. So you have to take blood thinners, et cetera. Lose weight, you know. So I did that, you know, for about six months. And it did turn out, I found out later, that those were the wrong drugs. I was misdiagnosed.

1:36:17They weren't going to help no matter how much of it I took because the type of cancer I had was another mutation that you have to really look at the cells to determine what it is, and they hadn't done that. At that point, before getting the second opinion, you were under the impression that this was the end of the road, essentially. You weren't going to beat it this time. I don't know if I – I don't think I gave up, but I was told – I mean, I did another – I did two pictures in London, Aquaman and Expendables 4 I shot in London while I was doing all this. Wow. And I was fairly good mood for some weird reason.

1:37:05I think it was some Viking part of me kicked in where it was like, oh, fuck it. You know, it's like, oh, we're going to hell anyway. We're going to Valhalla. Valhalla. You're just going to fucking enjoy it. You're just going to go out like a Viking. Go out in a blast of glory here. So I wasn't feeling that depressed. And the doctor in London, he was the one who told me, you know, that, you know, I said, well, I had a man-to-man talk to him. And when, not with Emma, but he said, yeah, you probably have about three years left. But I thought he probably meant less because he didn't want to tell me the truth.

1:37:42So I, it was tough. I mean, I was working on my own will, changing that around. And this is the end of, this is the end of 2019, 2020, 2021, actually. so uh yeah and it started to kind of dawn upon me that maybe this is the end but you know somebody had told me there's another doctor at ucla who's really good uh you should want you to get a second opinion so i was after come home from i came back from the set i'd be and i had to gather all my stuff together on my charts and send it to this woman and I thought, well, this is not going to lead to anything, but I'll do it anyway. Well, you know, I just had a feeling I got to explore all options.

1:38:30A little bit like with Stallone and Rocky IV, like, okay, well, you know, this guy says it's over, but what about, let me try this person. So I did that. And that's when we came back to America and went to see her at UCLA. She, you know, immediately said there's something that isn't right here. It doesn't make sense. I've looked at your biopsy and it's a very, very unusual type of kidney cancer that this medication you've been getting has no effect on this. But there's another five medications you can take that works against this. She was able to identify a genetic marker that made you a candidate for a very targeted treatment.

1:39:19Yes. that ultimately proved to be unbelievably effective. Yes. And completely changes the entire thing. I mean, you go from like, well, this is my eminent demise to suddenly like a completely different picture of what your future could look like. And this doctor, like this is another synchronicity kind of thing. Her dad's a huge fan of yours. Her husband, I think, worked out at the same gym as you. Yeah. You fall into the lap of absolutely the right person who's going to help you out here, and you're given this second chance at life. I know. And the dizzying whiplash effect of it's going to be this way to now it's this way.

1:40:05What was that like? Hearing you talk about it, it's just amazing what happened. I still can't really believe it, you know. I can't believe that I was that close to dying, and I can't believe that this other person could just turn it around in like four weeks because I started taking the other drug, and within four weeks, everything was shrinking. And I was in another movie. Actually, I was directing another picture because I wanted to keep working, you know. Yeah, because God forbid you sit still for a minute. Yes. Dolph. No, I can't. So, yeah, I mean, look, I guess somehow I felt that, yeah, I may not have been, you know, as successful as Arnold or Sly, but I've always tried to be nice to people and be a good person.

1:41:01And maybe it came back to me, you know, from the universe. And that's why I was given the second chance. Yeah. And, you know. You're given this gift. Yeah. And now in the aftermath of that, with the benefit of time and perspective, like what have you extracted from that experience and a lifetime of all of these unbelievable experiences that you've had, a very unique life, has it taught you about what's important and what's meaningful in life? well, it's not an easy question to answer because there's so many parts to it, you know? All the people you love, how quickly the whole thing goes, you know, the good energy coming back to you, all these circumstances in my case.

1:42:07But I think that I am well I think there is some meaning there's some meaning with our lives you know I think everybody there's a reason we're here and I think my reason had to do with sharing experiences with other people and I think that's why I switched from engineering to this when I'm sitting here with you instead of shaking a test tube somewhere maybe that is some of the meaning on one level, there's that connection to everybody else on this planet, all the other people, because we're all in the same journey like how we started. There's the monomyth. We're all going through it, whether you're American or Russian or Iranian or Ukrainian, it doesn't matter, right?

1:42:59And I've always felt the kinship to everybody. I don't feel, I'm not a political person. I feel everybody has a value and I can connect to everybody. And I think my life has been some kind of message, I guess. Like there's that, you know, Gandy who said, you know, when they said, give us a message and he said, my life is my message. You know, I read this other quote by, I think it was by Louise Hay who said, who I listened to her, I listened to her affirmations almost every night. And she said one thing she has when she says, I am the treasure I've been seeking.

1:43:47That's the nugget. That's the centerpiece in this whole healing journey of you returning home. because I think that the impact of the trauma that you suffered powered you through this astonishing life. But so much of it was driven by pain, unresolved pain. At the core of which is this sense of not maybe self-loathing, but like a refusal to accept yourself as you are. To love yourself. And in the aftermath of the cancer journey and all the therapy that you've done, and Louise Hay plays a large role in this, it's really about coming to this place where you can accept yourself and have self-love and compassion for yourself.

1:44:39You talk about looking into the mirror and rehearsing a mantra to yourself. Yeah. Yeah. when you look in the mirror like it you say i love you you know you look yourself in the eye i mean that's hard for most people to do yeah and mean it because when you first start you don't mean it and you realize why don't i mean it because is this something i did or is this somebody told me that a long time ago especially if you're the ultimate alpha male yeah you know Yeah, then it's even more difficult. Yeah, like this is beta behavior. You know what I mean? From a cultural perspective. Yeah. We're in this moment right now where there's a lot of young men who are suffering and they're looking for meaning.

1:45:30this loneliness epidemic, a lack of opportunity. And we have a digital social media landscape that's populated by people who are influencing this generation of young men who are looking for guidance, looking for father figures and mentors. And you being kind of like the ultimate at GigaChad who could outmog anyone. What is your message to that young man who is suffering and prone to the influence of somebody who might not be giving them the best guidance?

1:46:16Well, what we were talking about is you have to love yourself first before you can love others. And that's what's hard in life. And it takes a long, it's easier said than done. Because if you don't love yourself, then strength doesn't mean anything. And strength can be used for negative purposes. And it is a lot in the world. Because you can take these young men and you can feed them some kind of false messaging and use their aggressiveness to a negative purpose. And it's done every day. We just turn on the TV, you see it. But I think it's up to each individual to try to find themselves and find the treasure in themselves, you know, because then maybe your notice is susceptible to that language, to that indoctrination.

1:47:07You do things for yourself, you know, because what you believe in, not what people tell you to believe in, you know. A lot of that misguided messaging is around the material aspects of success. The right car, the right suit, the right watch, the right haircut, the right physique, the right job and salary. And you're somebody who has lived all of those lives. You've lived them on screen, but you've lived them in real life. You've had extreme fame. You've had more external validation than almost like 0.001 % of people who've ever lived. You've had money, you've lost money, you've had the most beautiful women in the world on your arm.

1:48:00All of these things that like the Andrew Tates of the world are telling you, like if you have this, you'll be happy and this is how the world will perceive you. And you've come out the other side having one lost, suffered, experienced awe and wonder, survived cancer, parented children, been married, gotten divorced, all of it, like the full spectrum of life, right? And so what can you report back about these ambitions that a young person might have around the material possession or celebrity or fame or status or movie stardom or the appearance of your partner? All of those things that seem to capture quite a bit of mindshare in terms of where we should be placing our ambitions.

1:48:52Well, you know, I don't know if I'm the person who... Not to put you in a position of being a spokesperson, but I'm talking about you and your life and speaking from your own direct experience. Well, I think all of those things are fine. You know, ambition is fine. Material things are okay. I mean, it's interesting to experience things in life. We only hear once as far as I know and as far as we know. You know, it's nice to drive a cool car. is nice to have a Ferrari or a good suit or beautiful woman or family. I mean, all those things are good. I mean, I think it is okay to achieve those things.

1:49:31It's more about not losing yourself. I mean, I think it is, I think one also has to remember that, you know, you know the russian um author solstin you know he said um nobel price winner he said the the line between good and evil cuts through the heart of every man so you have to remember that and it's we're we have both the good and the evil he put it very bluntly but you know we have I think it's a bit of a struggle within all the time, all of us. It's a fight to try to do the right thing, you know, to put it simple. But I think if you feel you do the right thing, if you really believe that you're doing the right thing, then you're always going to be okay.

1:50:24You're always going to feel good about yourself. And I think that's how I want to be remembering. People, you know, the Vikings said that cattle die, kinsmen die, you yourself once shall die. But I know one thing that never dies is the judgment over the dead man. How do people speak about you when you're gone? And I think that's where it's at. as a man on the deep level. That's where I think we all want to be. And that's the kind of, I think if we can remember that, and I think you're going to make the right decisions. Have you lived your life with integrity? Are you basing your decisions on self-aggrandizement or the betterment and welfare of other people?

1:51:20How generous are you of spirit and heart? all of these things are what matters and i think you're correct in saying like the nice car and all the trappings of success are fine but if you're seeking them as a way of you know filling that hole in your spirit uh it's not going to get you there and somebody also said you know your job as a man is to be um to be in the red to give more than you were given to love more than you were loved, to protect more people than you were protected, like to have a positive net, you know, then it's okay. And I think it wasn't for, then your life meant something, you know.

1:52:06And I think it's in there somewhere that, you know, it comes down to, and I don't make all the right decisions all the time, but I think on the whole, I would say, looking back on my life, I could kind of stand behind that, I would say, that I feel like I've I think I've fulfilled those things. Still a warrior, but a peaceful warrior. Yes. The older, wiser warrior. Yeah. The guy who comes back from the battles and can maybe teach the young warrior something. Yeah. The man who can return like Russell Crowe at the end of Gladiator home, having vanquished his enemies, but also can look in the mirror and say, Dolph, I really, really love you.

1:52:59Yeah. And not feel like that's cringy. Yeah. Like to mean it. Yeah, to mean it. Yeah, and to do it as a practice of self-nurturing and honoring. Like you mentioned like being in the red, like always giving more than you're seeking to receive, but doing it with a bright spirit, not because you feel like your worth or your deservedness is contingent upon other people seeing you doing those things, but out of like a self-honoring practice. Like I deserve to love the people that I love to the best of my ability. And the way that I do that is by showing up for them, not running away in escape behaviors or freezing, your freeze response.

1:53:50Yeah. And there's also the other side of it, which now when I listen to you, it's that you're learning by yourself till the day you die. I feel like I want to learn stuff. I mean, it's a process. The work is never done. No, the work is never done. Somebody said, I'm a river, I'm learning how to cross. And you're navigating that river and it's like the current's going this way, you have to steer the boat that way, and then it goes that way, and then you keep going. And I think that's the exciting part of it. It never stops. Life will continue to be uncertain. There is pain in your future. Yes. And the work is never done.

1:54:33No. But along the way, you've made peace with your past, with your father and your mother and your upbringing. Yes. And that has allowed you to make peace with yourself and to love yourself. And the reason to love yourself is so that you can give more of yourself to the things that you care about and the people that matter in your life. Yeah. Is that a fair? Like this is Odysseus finally arriving on the shores of Ithaca after his very long journey. You're right. And some people, Jesus Christ may have reached that when he was 30. Some people reach it when they're 65. It's a journey when you get to that state.

1:55:18And right now, health-wise, I mean, you look good. You feel good? Yeah, I feel good. Yeah. I feel good. I feel like the old warrior is kind of coming back. It took me about two years to get back in shape, but I feel pretty good now. Every week, I'm actually getting stronger again. So I'm sort of back to where I was even before this started because when I was doing the steroids and stuff after 2015, I wasn't feeling 100%. I was never really feeling good because it wasn't natural. So I would say it goes back like more than 10 years. I feel better now than I did. Probably the same I felt like 20 years ago or something.

1:56:01I think it's a really exciting time for you. You have so much earned wisdom from all of these experiences and you're kind of back. You got this book coming out. You've got the documentary about a month later. The book comes out September 22nd, I think, and then the documentary comes out in October. where this documentary, I mean, this is a journey unto itself. Like that was something that began a long time ago prior to all the cancer and all that. And then, you know, all kinds of ups and downs, but, you know, is really a firsthand account, you know, shot on iPhones by, you know, your wife and you, a lot of that aspect of it that now, you know, tells like this more full story.

1:56:45And I think these two pieces together and just how kind of like comfortable you are in your own skin, I mean, that really comes across. I think this is going to be a really golden era for you. I'm excited to see what comes of all of this. And really for wider audiences to really know who you are. You know, like your life is really – you've lived such a remarkable life. And when you look back on it, there must be gratitude and awe and wonder, but maybe we can end with what you would say to young Hans, who's getting kind of knocked about by his dad, this little kid. Like, what is the message you wanna give to him now?

1:57:32I would say, no, don't worry. It's gonna be fine. Come here, I'll give you a hug. Yeah. Because you can be your own parent, you know, to that inner child now. Yeah. Give him some warmth and compassion and, you know, he still has to suffer through everything, but at least he would feel like, oh, this big guy really loves me and cares about me, you know. so that would have been nice but I do that almost every day when I do my affirmations I try to remind myself of those things that's beautiful man it was a real honor to have you here today it really was I feel a kinship with you you're an old soul you really are an artist that was very meaningful to me I really appreciate the openness and the candor that you brought to this experience.

1:58:37Thank you. It was a great interview, very unusual and special. And I understand that we share a few things in our past, what you've told me. I hope people will maybe walk away with maybe some nuggets that they can apply in their own lives. I'm not worried about that at all. I think they got more than they bargained for. And there's even more in your book, Fights Worth Fighting, available everywhere September 22nd. Yeah. And the documentary, October 6th. And also the book, you could pre-order it on Amazon. Yeah, please pre-order it now. We'll have links up in the show notes and in the description below the YouTube video.

1:59:23Thanks. And I wish you well, man. Best of luck. I think this is all going to be a big success for you, man. Thank you. Yeah, I appreciate it. Pleasure. Hope we'll do it again. Yeah. I'd love to. Anytime. Yeah. Thanks.