Mark Cavendish: An Intimate Conversation With The Greatest Sprinter In Cycling History

36:45But the difference between your sport and a lot of other sports is you're not training with these guys day in, day out. Yeah, it's a mad sport like that. Yeah. And even that, there's only one guy crosses the line. And you've got to be simpatico with your lead out. So I'm smaller than most of the guys as well. So I have to trust where we're there going. And that's built on a lot more than just being on the bike. And I'm fortunate to have some of the best, most helpless people in the sport during my career. I'm very, very fortunate for that. it is such a weird thing though because most of the training you're probably doing alone right but that's nothing like the racing and nothing like the teamwork required to you know for you to be successful and your teammates to be successful you come together for these camps and then you see each other at races it's mad and can you imagine it doesn't make sense actually can you imagine being a lead out guy where you know you've got a train you've got to make yourself vomiting training by going hard so that you could go and make somebody else cross the finish line first okay the team's winning there's only one rider has their name on the yeah for me that's incredibly special for guys that know their job is to sacrifice themselves for somebody else and they'll go out and hurt themselves at home just so they can hurt more to support you in the race like it blows my mind yeah there really isn't any other sport like that nah it's what's so beautiful about this sport there's so many little things about this sport that make it just beautiful you know when you look at the layout for this year's tour like where's your head at in terms of it's a different kind of race this year it's not ending in Paris with the Champs -Élysées you're in Italy for part of it it's a very challenging course yeah for all riders but for a sprinter like you don't choose whether you're a climber or a sprinter it's a physiological makeup that defines if you can go uphill fast or not it doesn't matter how much i trained if i only trained on hills i'd still be last up a hill or one of the last i just wouldn't be very fast in a sprint yeah next year's tour de France is very hard for anybody that can't go uphill decent.

39:13Like it's always hard, you know, it's never easy. It's never easy to make a time court to finish. It's never easy to put into perspective. The last group on the road on a mountain day, which is normally my group, we would finish a stage in a faster time than the winner of what's called like tap to tour, which is a grand fond or massive amateur event. that does one stage of the Tour de France. Yeah. You get ringer amateurs out for that. Yeah. But it's a whole different tier. Yeah. It's not just a level above. It's a complete other level above. And then there's the gap between you being in that final group coming over the hill versus whoever's taking that stage.

39:59That's a huge time gap too. Yeah. Look, sometimes it's like we're never going easy. and talking you're never doing that but sometimes it's not as close as it might see say we're likely to lose 38 minutes in that one stage on the on the winner but the time limit is 45 minutes we're idiots if we only finish at 38 minutes and not right 44 yeah yeah yeah because you're not it doesn't matter yeah it's really quite done it's calculated now you can work out what the winner will do and then you work out how many watts per kilo you have to do on each climb how much time you lose on each climb and then you can work out the overall time you'd lose so you can you can kind of ride to a yeah you still have to be able to do that and it's it's a lot higher than even your average amateur cyclist would be able to do.

41:04It's quite calculated. It's just, it's... It's a math equation, you know, for you. You know exactly, yeah, and you've got, it's about efficiency because you're looking at, you know, the whole event and where you're going to make your mark. It's not going to be on the hill. Exactly, I might be taking the show away from the commentators. You know, they have to make a story about how to make it exciting, but it's not that exciting. How much he's hurting at the back, right? You're just like, no, I'm doing this on purpose because I got, you know, in three days, I got this other stage that I'm thinking about.

41:30There's times when we're fighting to make the limit. There is. I can't deny that. But it's not that often. Yeah. But it's still fucking hard every single day. Right. The grind of like doing that day in and day out and having done it for 20 years. Like I can't imagine. And it's a loneliness to be fair. Yeah. Like even though you're not talking, you're not riding, if you're in a big bunch, there's so much going on that you're thinking about that. Because any little thing and you go down. When you're on your own, all you're thinking about is the pain in your legs. And that's actually hard. It becomes a mental thing rather than a physical thing, if that makes sense.

42:08Because it's all you have to concentrate on. You have nothing else to concentrate on. And it's that day in, day out of loneliness when you think everybody else is. For me, that's always the hardest thing to overcome. If you go on social media and kind of scroll through, you know, the sort of fitness influencer ecosystem, you see a lot of people talking about gadgets or some kind of supplement or this new recovery modality or that. My sense, though, of all the kind of super elite performers at the highest level of their sport do very little or any of that whatsoever. It's like you train hard, you eat what you need to eat, you go to bed early, you're with your family, you try to see your friends when you can.

42:56And that's basically it. Is that your approach? It's a very old school approach, but my sense is that that's how you kind of do it. Yeah. Obviously, there's big sacrifices, but it's pretty straightforward life. It's harder for somebody that, like I said, it's my job. I get to do what I love as my job. That's all I have to do as a job is ride my bike. But at the same time, in fairness, it's another year of having to get out there in the freezing cold and the rain, like ride by yourself and all of that, like to maintain kind of the level of motivation that you need to keep doing that. It's like it's not an easy life, even at your level.

43:39No, but still get to ride my bike. Yeah, that's true. you know like okay you would like the choice to not go out if you didn't want to go out but quite like going out there will obviously be times when i'm not going to be loving it but i still every day know i'm lucky to do what i do every single day at the end of of this year so there's no pronouncement about whether you're going to keep going or not no like are you playing that year by year i don't know really but i'm old now like i'm racing with you'll be 39 i'm racing right yeah and i'm racing with lads who whose dad i race with yeah i race with their dads you know there's a few of them that they're only a year older than my eldest boy you know it's it's like how do they treat you in the peloton like what is their relationship with you as the old guard i don't know really like i'd only be looking at from my perspective but i'm asking like today pagaccia like he's won the twitter friends two times my five-year-old is like his biggest fan and he like signed jerseys and stuff for him so i'm asking him for a signed jersey and stuff like that so it's kind of a bit 25 right he's like 25 years old yeah he's a good kid like brilliant kid that lad just i don't know they're still my competitor if and when you you decide to you know call it a day for good what does life look like like would you have a sense of what you would do where you would invest your energy i don't i stay in the sport that's yeah that's for sure i'm quite happy with my team stana kazakhstan so manager maybe in the future i hope so something like that yeah we'll see i just love it i love teaching i love camaraderie being with my teammates you know what the only one thing that i don't like about my job having to get dressed to go for breakfast i thought you were gonna say coming and doing podcasts like this hotels like if you go away on holiday it's nice to be in a hotel you don't have to do your washing make your bed make your breakfast or dinner and it put when you spend 78 percent of your year in a hotel room honestly like it's so nice to be at home and not have to get dressed at breakfast.

46:12Just go down in my underwear and just make a coffee. You still have to share a room at races? Yeah, it depends what team you're in, really. But I like to share a room. I always have. I climb the walls if I'm on my own. I like to chat, joke, talk about the day, talk about other stuff. I like company in the room. It means a single bed instead of a double bed, but yeah, I like that company really. Yeah. The other crazy thing that happened to you is this situation where your house was robbed and these people broke into your house. And from what I read, what I understand, like a guy like held you at night, had like a knife to your neck.

46:56Wasn't anything I wish on anybody. I can't. I mean, I can't imagine. Three of them have been convicted. Right. But there's still one guy who's at large. They can't track him down. Yeah, but you just did a good job, really, you know. It wasn't the nicest night, that's for sure. I mean, I can't even wrap my head around that, you know, what that must have been like. Yeah, not nice. Like, especially it stays with you a long time after. Especially when my boy was three at the time in the room in bed. I'd had a crash a few days before. I had a collapsed lung. so I'd been in intensive care a day or so a few days later my wife had come to pick me up she drove me home and yeah so I was in bed a bit a bit bad middle of the night they came in and they beat me pretty bad but I'm pretty happy I was there you know like I had a friend who was away and they tied his wife and kid up, you know, and went in his house.

48:06The same guys? I don't know. I don't think so. I don't know. But I count myself lucky. Yeah, that's... Do you know what I mean? Sorry that that happened. I can't say how to mess.

48:26I own a bunch of spectacles. And I made the grave error the other day of donning a normal non-Roka pair on my indoor trainer when I was riding my bike indoors. And I got to tell you, it was a disaster. Every three to five seconds, I had to take my hands off the handlebars and push my glasses back up my nose until I got so frustrated I just tossed them aside. This is the dilemma of every active but optically impaired person I know. And as someone who has relied upon eyewear every single day since I was five years old, it is also the source of endless aggravation. thankfully now eradicated thanks to Broca, the stylish performance eyewear company founded by two former Stanford swimming teammates of mine who have gifted everyone like me and quite frankly, the world with their fashionable line of super lightweight prescription glasses and sunglasses with patented no-slip nose and temple pads that are just impervious to sweat and no matter what you do, remain locked on your mug no matter how intense your workout.

49:35Without the dork factor, these things go everywhere with me from the trail to the dinner party. Put them on, feel the difference, and wear without limits. Unlock 20 % off your order with the code RICHROLL at ROKA.COM. That's R-O-K-A dot com.

50:00With all that you've kind of accomplished and all the growth that you've experienced. How do you think about like the young Mark? There's a couple of things, but I think I'd say something, but then would that affect, you don't know which way you go with it. One, don't trust people like I was just completely trusting. And that leaves yourself quite open to be, you know, really burnt, you know. Like be a bit more, don't open yourself too quickly with people. That's something. but yeah stay humble I think I know when I was younger could have been a little bit more humble at times and I wish I had been I seem like talking about before like when I like smack talk using somebody's what I perceived as mental weakness against him yeah but I didn't know you know yeah it's not an excuse but at least i also you're you're winning everything right so what does that do to a young mind when when you trust people that aren't going to tell you right someone needs to hit you around the head and say stop that right you know who's giving you the honest feedback you didn't have that when you needed it early no not really when i was pro you know why it's quite common in professional sports it's like that you know you're a product the end of the day like it's entertainment you're a product you know like as a person you're human but as a sports person you're a commodity you know yeah we could see this person you know what i mean i was so happy with how they did that like it wasn't my film i didn't have editing rights and that on the on the film you know and i really believe the director alex the producers pitch Netflix I'm so happy they didn't make it look all shiny and like they really showed flaws and how shit I can be as a person but also how vulnerable I can be as a person you know they really showed showed that I was quite humbled that they did that really do you know well I think that's why it works you know and I think that's why it's meaningful and I think that you know I I mean, first of all, I commend you for opening yourself up to be available for that type of narrative and conversation.

52:25You could have easily said, I'll revisit this when I'm done with cycling. You know what I mean? I did. No, it was quite hard to film some of it. And Alex, the director, was super patient, like really, really, really patient. And I think... he was incredible to be able to open up to like that and how he stayed like that and just let me do it because it's hard to talk about as well like trying to analyze struggles you have can kind of put you in a dark place again you know and you don't mind if you can share your experiences and maybe somebody relates to it it's worth doing then you know When you do too much and you can talk negatively, it can spiral you down, you know?

53:22Well, I think it's also an important piece in a larger conversation around, like, elite athletics and mental health. It kind of pulls the veil on this idea that somebody like yourself or, you know, high performer X, Y, or Z, they're immune from these sorts of conditions and they operate differently than normal people when in fact, like the pressures are very real and you're human just like everyone else. And you giving voice to this gives other athletes permission to do that. Because as you know, like everyone is in this situation where they feel like if they're vulnerable, like that's gonna really harm their career.

54:06Like if they let anybody know that they're actually hurting, that's a chink in the armor that they don't want their coach to know, they don't want their competitors to know. It might not bode well for them getting re-signed or whatever it is. Unfortunately, even if it's not just them thinking that, it is detrimental because there's a lot of people that don't understand. Right. Unfortunately, it's like that. It can be hard for an athlete or a non-athlete to deal with their demons or deal with what's going on or know there's something wrong be able to do something about it that's one that's the struggle in itself but when there's other people making decisions based on the perception of you that you you can't it's actually more detrimental like if you're trying to fight against something like exactly what i was doing it wasn't like i was trying to fight against what was going on with me i was having a battle against It's obstacles we're putting away.

55:11And that's the problem that unfortunately you're facing when it's universally misunderstood, like mental health. And it's not to feel sorry for someone. I never want anyone to feel sorry for me. Why would you feel sorry? It's not something that's good or bad. It just is. But it's an understanding that you don't need to put obstacles in the way making it harder than it already is to come out and talk about these things and I think the uninformed view of what happened to you when you were in your lower moments is listen he had a good career but it's not happening anymore the train is moving on and Mark will figure it out and do something else with his life but the people who thought that have never done anything that I've done so how could they put themselves in a position to think that that was always my thought process how can they say if i can do it or not because they've never done anything that i've done do you know no i understand and but they were the ones stopping me showing them right that makes sense i'm not showing them doing it it was like you try and go forward and you for every step you do and you have to push the door is being shut like we don't want we don't want to hear about it and your your whole thing was like you don't go from being the best in the world to suddenly like being shit and not being able to do it like something's wrong you can decrease But they were saying, listen, you're old, whatever, like blah, blah, blah.

56:39Like we're done with you as opposed to, well, let's try to understand what Mark is saying here. And the fact that, you know, good people came into your life who honored that and you went on this journey with them, came out the other side and proved like indeed there was something wrong with you. addressed it with the physical stuff, the Epstein-Barr, but also the mental stuff and came out counterintuitively having to deal with vulnerability and mental health and all these things that you probably thought were weaknesses coming out, not just stronger, but a more fully actualized person who's happier in their life and more grounded and can connect with gratitude and all these sorts of things that you put blinders on as an athlete to perform and realizing that, oh, that's a more sustainable source of strength for me that can power me through many more years and great successes is a really powerful contribution to how people understand not just mental health, but like athletic performance.

57:39And I think you've also sidestepped whatever kind of existential crisis you might have had in the wake of retirement thinking, well, what am I going to do now? I'm used to this like super, you know, exciting, high level, rare kind of life that nobody gets to experience, I'm probably not going to be able to have those kinds of peak experiences. Like, how do I make sense of my life? Whether you're Michael Phelps or somebody else who's coming out of a career where their identity and their whole like kind of way that they operate is based on that to suddenly being a civilian, you know, precipitates more than a few, you know, mental health crises in like high performing athletes.

58:20Yeah, but in all fairness, I've had an idea and got into like plans in motion of what i'm doing after i never want to just stop and like it is always you think your dream is to stop i've worked i've been doing this since i was a kid i'm enjoying my life now or like athletes are driven that's why they're athletes you know it's not just athletes are driven yeah many many people are driven i need something a goal It doesn't matter what it is. I need that. I just need one that allows me more time with my kids, really. Cycling takes up a lot of time. The other weird thing about cycling is that in other sports, especially really grueling ones, when an athlete finally retires, they're like, I'm done with that.

59:09I don't need to do that. Cyclists always continue to ride. They stay connected to the sport. Their love affair with the bike doesn't go away, which I think is unique and interesting. It's so dynamic cycling. Like you can do it competitively as a sport. You can do it to keep fit on any level, spinning or ultra riding or part of a triathlon. You can use it as a mode of transport. You can do it with your family. Kids go out and play in the street and just riding a bike is just so dynamic. you got no you can go at what speed you want to go at you know social too exactly yeah you can go out on your own or with people like you said like socially you can go for as far you want as fast you want healy flat it's so you're free i always felt free on a bike right that's why i did i still feel free now like i think if i'm not doing vaz's efforts like interval sessions i'm just thinking on my bike if you run too slow you're walking no do you know what i mean like bite like okay you fall off you can choose the speed you do like it's brilliant like you know you'll always ride yeah yeah i'll always ride i'm not doing a triathlon though i'd like to see you swim though no mate no like i was at the world ironman champs in neeson oh you were i was like blown away it's impressive it's incredible but it's so stupid it's so stupid putting your body through that it's like says the guy who's in the Tour de France 20 times I'm just one thing I'm just riding a bike yeah well that thing's over in a day though you know do you know well actually more than the pros it's the people that are coming in at midnight like being like yeah that's special like however many hours 16 hours whatever like it's easy to push through physical barriers and mental barriers like even before i had all the problems and that it's how far you can push yourself mentally and like doing that much time like that being out there with just you and your body so impressive yeah like it's life-changing i mean it's one thing to be sam laid low or christian blumenfeld or what these guys you know on the rivet for eight hours.

1:01:37But the people who are coming in at 12, it's like they're out there so many more. They're suffering longer, right? It was impressive. Yeah, so I don't know. Maybe you're going to. Not a chance. My team boss, Vino, he was world champion. Yeah. He won the world championships there. Like age group. Right. That was a while back. I think you should design kits with Paul Smith. Yeah. He's your guy, right? Yeah, he just loved cycling. I know. He raced when he was young. I'm the nicest person you'll ever meet. He's still coming up with designs for cyclists too. Yeah. If there's one thing that you're kind of focused on and working on for this year, what is the hurdle you're still trying to overcome to unlock that next level of performance for yourself?

1:02:25Or what comes up? This is what I really need to work on. This is my weakness that I'm focused on right now. I don't know, really. Like I look at like last year and I have a lot more things in place for next year than I did even last year. But say the Tour de France is a lot, lot, lot harder. I have to adapt to that. When they unveil the course, how does that impact? Do you have to tweak and sort of dial in your training to customize it? Not right now, but yeah. yeah and any things that you have to do like you know it's now at 39 that you didn't have to do when you were 26 i kind of continued to ride actually taking a block of time or something off season at the minute and uh when i was younger it would be five six weeks off the bike then you start again after i hit 30 it got short and short the amount of time i could kind of have off the bike without it taking a long time to get back yeah your base fitness is always there you can't let it go for too long anymore yeah you feel a lot more lethargic don't you is there any training that you do off the bike that's different like what does the gym workout look like the other the sort of dry land other things no i i probably do less off-bike work now than i used to all my stuff is quite on bike based that's vaz's thing a lot of my strength training there's no gym or anything like that the strength work's done on the bike it's all on the bike and when you're hitting peak training how many hours a week are we looking at 30 35 hours yeah there's some weeks you do 15 hours but very high intensity 15 hours you know it varies um the workload would probably always be relatively the same you might do just less hours with higher intensity i don't really know i don't i should ride my bike yeah which is just riding my bike i'm trying to make it more complicated than it is yeah you know it's actually refreshing honestly i'm measuring wins really out well for me i want to win you know like at the times when i have to try and get in the team to go the tour then all that stuff kind of matters but it's for other people you know yeah if i know i could just be left to my own thing own devices to be the best i could be to go the tour yeah i know what i need to do to win it's basically getting fit enough you know exactly what your power to weight ratio needs to be you know what the number and you know how to get there and you want to show up at the tour healthy fresh and be able to strike when the opportunity arises and efficiently ride through the rest of it so that you can basically be in the best position you possibly can for those sprint opportunities exactly yeah it's 21 days so and you can't control it there's so many variables right like you know everything you do on the first and second day even though you will have a knock-on effect on the 18th and 19th day you know So for instance, if it was a really flat first 10 days, you'd probably go in with a little bit more weight.

1:05:47You'd lose a weight in the first 10 days before you got in the mountains, but you'd have a more powerful sprint, whereas at the beginning you need to be able to get to the sprints as well. So you'd change your body shape and that by different training. Dependent on the course. Yeah. I'm going too complicated now. I'm getting bored talking about it. I'm going to let you go in a few minutes Don't worry about it Two more things I want to ask you One is, was anything left out of the documentary that you wish had been in there or is there any aspect of who you are that you think gets misconstrued in the press or that people kind of don't understand about the real Mark?

1:06:27I don't know really I don't know if it really matters if someone who doesn't know you who's never met you will never met you has a opinion on your personality like they could be right but most probably they're wrong about your personality you know for good or bad I don't know you know unless you know someone someone I know or meet if I make them happy that's good if I upset them then that's a problem with me and I should sort that out. If you're affecting somebody's life or how they are now, their day, then that's something you've got to address. My kids, they pretend to be their favorite sports person or pop star.

1:07:24That's when you understand your job as a cyclist, really. It can be a kid or it can be even an adult. like you know when you go out don't say you haven't done it you imagine that person you're seeing on tv you've done it for sure you've done it you might have been a kid when you imagine you someone that's our job you know to be that person when you meet those people yeah oh no when you don't meet them so it's not your personality it's what you do but when you meet them then it's important to be the person you want them to believe you are if you're a good person you bring them joy if you're not you affect them negatively that's so interesting though because you're thinking about this not just in terms of how you perform as an athlete but how you're perceived as a public person and the responsibility yeah i'm not talking about how i'm perceived i'm talking about how i am you want you want to acquit yourself the way that yeah yeah i understand You should do it for, especially in the world now with social media and the like, that you can manipulate who you are.

1:08:33Sure. Don't be perceived to be a good person. Be a good person, do you know? It's like you shouldn't even have to say that. You know what I mean? You do. I have heard things about, I met him myself. Met him 15 years ago. He was a dick. I was a dick. I was I'm not a dick now I realize I'm a dick right based on a 10 second encounter exactly that you had where that person was probably really excited to meet you and you were in a bad mood or whatever and now his whole view of who you are is based on that there's someone over at another team bus with another rider you sign 100 autographs for those 100 people when you're down to the last three who've been waiting there for two hours that person has finished getting that one from there and comes and waits there, but you're done, you have to go, the bus is going, it's not, the bus has to go, and you leave, you're not being a dick.

1:09:32Right. Do you see what I mean? No, I understand. Yeah. You can't fulfill that expectation all the time for everybody. You can't. But there was times in the past when I could have signed 50 autographs and I didn't. I wish I knew before I had kids how much that means to sign autographs. Do you know? Kids is the reason I know, but probably I was a dick for not realizing that before do you know yeah do you know what I mean yeah I understand but it's also you know viewing that charitably like you know you're probably younger and my job is to race a bike like I'll sign as many as I can but I have other things to do too like I can't just be available I could make people perceive me as being nice but it wasn't that I was just a dick.

1:10:18Yeah, okay. You know what I mean? I have to be true for her. I didn't really care. Right, I get it. But I don't see a dick sitting across from me right now. I see like a pretty nice grounded dude. And I guess like that leads to the final kind of question that I want to ask you, which is, you know, this podcast thing that I do, if there is like one overarching theme, it's really about growth and evolution and change. Like how can we become better people? How can we be more fulfilled, you know, live more purposeful, meaningful lives be a little bit more compassionate and self-actualized. And when I look at kind of the changes that you've gone through and your own personal transformation and growth as not just an athlete, but as a human being in this kind of mental health journey that you went on, like I see somebody who's earned their transformation, like you've grown up in a lot of ways, right?

1:11:09And I just wanna leave the audience with some thoughts about that process. If somebody's thinking about like, how can I kind of level up who I am as a person or how can I welcome a little bit more discomfort into my life to to grow and challenge myself like as somebody who's on the other side of one chapter of that like what do you tell that person or what can you impart from what you've learned in the experiences that you've had right for me of course you can have negatives but find a solution to any negative or look for a solution to turn it into a positive like negativity drags you down and that's not to say just don't be negative that's like saying before don't be depressed that's not you know it's if you can find solutions to whatever negative thing is going on it doesn't have to be negative thoughts you don't have to just just anything that there should never be a problem you should look at the solution the problem just i can't do it because it's a problem or i can't it's you might not be able to do it but it turns into a positive rather than a negative and it's a massive weight lifted like the glass is always half full it's not half empty if you can look at life like that you can do what you want to do you know just take it from experience because i never thought like that before and it's been an absolute game changer to me not harboring negativity finding a positive way to look at things that's a great way to go into this season man i'm happy for you dude you know it's cool it's it's really cool to you know you're you're so clearly in in this really good place in your life like emotionally and it's one thing to be in that place and it's another thing to recognize it like you really recognize like this cool life that you have opportunities that you have thanks and i'm lucky like how i have an incredible wife that's still buying me through everything and i realize what i have got an incredible beautiful family i get to do what i love is a job there's nothing to yeah things are perfect you know that's a good way to end it man things are perfect right thanks man that was great you're an inspiration you know I've been a fan for a long time but now you know knowing you a little bit and getting to know you through the documentary like I really appreciate you know the journey that you are on and what you're trying to do man thank you I'm really excited for this season to come for you Thanks, Rich.

1:13:54Thank you. Cheers. Thanks for doing this. Thank you. Peace.

1:14:03That's it for today. Thank you for listening. I truly hope you enjoyed the conversation. To learn more about today's guest, including links and resources related to everything discussed today, visit the episode page at richroll.com where you can find the entire podcast archive as well as podcast merch my books finding ultra voice of change in the plant power way as well as the plant power meal planner at meals.richroll.com if you'd like to support the podcast the easiest and most impactful thing you can do is to subscribe to the show on apple podcasts on Spotify and on YouTube and leave a review and or comment.

1:14:48Supporting the sponsors who support the show is also important and appreciated. And sharing the show or your favorite episode with friends or on social media is, of course, awesome and very helpful. And finally, for podcast updates, special offers on books, the meal planner, and other subjects, please subscribe to our newsletter, which you can find on the footer of any page at richroll.com. Today's show was produced and engineered by Jason Camiolo with additional audio engineering by Cale Curtis. The video edition of the podcast was created by Blake Curtis with assistance by our creative director, Dan Drake.

1:15:25Portraits by Davey Greenberg, graphic and social media assets courtesy of Daniel Solis. Thank you, Georgia Whaley, for copywriting and website management. and of course our theme music was created by Tyler Pyatt, Trapper Pyatt, and Harry Mathis. Appreciate the love, love the support. See you back here soon. Peace. Plants. Namaste.

1:16:07Because you plan now you know there has been a requirement of this high temperature Lease So I'm going to call back to eat 3