Orlando Bloom on The Spirituality of Extremes: Chasing Fear, Embracing Risk & Navigating Fame

27:13Because we're all like on this journey, right? We're all, I believe interconnected and having this experience and we're little satellites going around with little, if you broke us all ourselves down, wouldn't we be about the same as a galaxy anyway, right? So I see us as little galaxies running in and out. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it's like, I don't know, I just was like, well, maybe anything I do here pushing my lead edge will be something where somebody goes, well, I ain't doing that, that's crazy. Okay, don't, don't jump out of a plane. I'm not suggesting you do that, but what is that edge for you?

27:48Find that edge and do that so that maybe you can come back to center. I'm not saying live in that space. And I'm also not suggesting that I wasn't blessed enough to have amazing teachers as we've just said, help guide me through it. But I do like the idea of taking myself out of my comfort zone. And like, that's kind of why I'm sitting here, honestly, because in a way it's the last thing I wanna do is being vulnerable on a camera. And that's why I haven't done podcasts. You're new to podcasting. Exactly. Well, you're here right now. I'm gonna push you out to the edge of your comfort zone because there's always growth there, dude.

28:22You are a seeker, let's seek together. Okay. What are we gonna discover? Listen, you've got a lot more interesting people who've been seeking a lot more interesting subjects on this. I think to your point of we all are imprinted on some level at a very young age based upon how we were parented and how we kind of just came in genetically into the world. I mean, there's truth in that. And I share that desire for approval and then also like never quite feeling like I was getting it, which fuels more and more and more and more extreme behavior. So then you feel like the imposter. Well, oh yeah. It's like Rumi says, right?

29:00Orlando, they're gonna come in here and drag me out of here before this podcast is over. Trust me. They'll get me first, don't worry. Just people - I'll say, take me. People pleasing, being a chameleon, and who do you need me to be? I had a whole kind of dark exploration and substances, anything to check out and extreme sports can be a version of that. But I do think that you've leveraged this for growth. So where did the impulse to be on this journey towards growth come from? Like it's one thing to be an extreme sport athlete and be attracted to that, like a moth to the flame. It's another thing to say, I wanna grow, I wanna evolve and I'm game for anything that's gonna help me expand.

29:47Like, I feel like that is a default setting that you have. Yeah, I think that started a long time before the show though, right? Sure, I mean, yeah, this dates back. I don't know when that began. Do you have a sense of when that kind of came online for you and why? Probably surprisingly young. I think I just, I wanted to be not where I was in some ways or I wanted to be like, I had this, it's so funny. Like I grew up with a lot of watching a lot of American style TV and shows and stuff like that in England, but, and I think like there's aspects of, you know, my childhood that were, would challenge me in different ways.

30:32And I had a very happy childhood in many ways, like a really solid middle-class upbringing, really beautiful home, lots of, but there was, there's something that I, that meant I wanted to be away. I wanted to get somewhere else. Like I remember envisioning in this, I was in the gym at school and I imagined myself flying in as Superman to grab my girl. And then this girl who had a crush on when I was nine years old, I was gonna fly out with her or something. So I had all these, I think in some weird ways because of the backstory of my father, which is very complex and has been talked about a lot, but I didn't, you know, I had this idea of who my father was because my mother had told me that my father was Harry Bloom.

31:11And then I - Who was a civil rights activist in South Africa, like an anti-apartheid activist, right? Yeah, like a hero in my mind. He'd written a book and called Transvaal Episode and who was in prison with Nelson Mandela, who was like this hero in my mind. So until I'm 13, I've like got this heroic view of a man that like my mom has given me a little bit, but my imagination is just, you know, I have no idea who that guy was, you know what I mean? Right, he passed away when you were four, right? And he was gone even before that, right? So you never really had a relationship with them. He was present, but he was in the house, but I have one memory of that.

31:45So I think I had this idea, I had created, my imagination had created an idea of a man, right? That was based on the framework of who Harry Bloom was. And then my father who was in my life, but I didn't know he was my father. He was my legal guardian who is like, I have just a wonderful relationship with still and continue to. He was in business with my mother, but he was also like, he was younger. He was 10 years younger than my mother. And he was in an office in the bottom of the house, like trying to build this business out of foreign language school. And I'd sort of see him at weekends and we'd go and like walk and build like huts.

32:26And then I'd stay with him for weekends. But I think he was struggling as well. His own masculinity was struggling at that time with trying to build a business, not being with my mom probably, or being confused about whatever that was. He was 24 when he, you know. And it was a consensual thing that he would father you. Like it's a complicated, weird thing, right? I have no straight answer for you on any of all that. You still don't know the answer. There's my mother's story. and then there's, you know, and then there's his story. There's a lot of ambiguity. Yeah, ambiguity, but that created a lot of uncertainty, I would imagine, being a young kid, trying to figure out, you know, where you feel safe.

33:10Yeah, yeah, yeah. But also like this incredibly eclectic household. I mean, it sounds like your mom was really supportive and she was able to see that you had this imagination and this artistic sensibility. And she really fueled that, like she really supported that. and she was like fully throwing everything. My mom was the one who got me to do Bible classes, Bible reading and like, sorry, there was the Kent festival, which was a Canterbury festival where you do poetry, prose, Bible reading. And I did all of them and I won all the competitions. And I was a kid and like basically got the cups. And I was like, yay, I did it.

33:44I mean, I did it. She was the one who was like, took me to, drove me to teachers who were like, this is how you recite this poem. This is how you say this piece of text. This is how you read this piece from the Bible. And then you would like sit in front of like teachers or not teachers, but judges. And then you'd see if you came first, second or third. Yeah, and you were naturally good at that or you got good at it pretty quick. I was probably good and I also worked at it and it was something that kind of gave me, that was a really strong foundation. Although I will say that I had terror when it came to stage fright.

34:21And if you like just before this, I've been wrecked coming down here in the car, bro. You know what I mean? I've been like. And if I have to say anything publicly, you know, which is random because here we are without a script, I'm like, I'm just gonna put my foot in my mouth. Oh God, my humor doesn't work. You're very charming though. You should, it's not rational that you feel that way. You know that. Well, there you go. There's nothing very rational about who I am, but I live it, you know. But it's like, I don't know that, But I think that's part of what it is as well, was looking at like the emotion versus the rationale, right?

34:58And then if you think, I mean, I can unpack all of this, but it's not really a therapy session, is it? I don't know. I don't know, maybe it is. But it's like - But I think there's instructive aspects - I've unpacked a lot of this. There's a lot that's instructive about this. I mean, I think - Is it helpful? I think understanding that your mom was so supportive and saw this in you and realized like, this is what needs to be nurtured in this kid. And to see you kind of thrive and ascend in that world, so much so that you end up leaving school or leaving home at like 16, right? So you're in London, you're just a kid.

35:34Well, I went to boarding school at 11 actually. Oh, 11, so you were out of the house. 11, I was out of the house. You were having to take care of yourself at a very early age. So, I mean, that seems to me to be related to the question of like, what instigated this desire to be on this growth journey? Like you had to figure things out for yourself. Yeah, that's true. That's true. I've had to, I definitely went on a, I've been on a long journey of self-discovery. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.

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39:35As much as we try to learn about ourselves through peak experiences and extreme sports and the like, the hardest lift and the most courageous act is to understand that the real answers that you're searching for are really not gonna be found there. and they're gonna be found only by going inward. And none of us really wanna do that. That's a very challenging, inconvenient thing to do. It's kind of lonely. It can be quite lonely, that process. Well, cause it's on you and you alone. And there's nobody telling you that you have to. I know I listened to your podcast with Trevor Noah and you said something along the lines of how Katie, your partner is sort of demanding your evolution or not.

40:22that's the wrong word, demanding, but like is pushing you, right? To always be growing. And that's, Julie's here, like that's something that I think we share. And that is a fantastic thing to have in your life. Somebody who sees you for who you are, who holds a vision for the better aspects of you and can see how you can be better and is not willing to just accept you for who you are, but is expecting you to grow in lockstep. but it also makes it difficult, you know, it's hard. Who wants to do that? It's a choice, right? Nobody's saying you have to do that. You have a great life. And so it would be easy to coast, right?

41:02It's all good. I don't have to do all this other shit. Yeah, no, I can't do that. The balance of life is for me in, you know, putting myself in other positions. I feel, I mean, one of the things that I'm most grateful for really is the opportunity to work with UNICEF, which I've had for 20 years now. And I think the first thing I said to UNICEF basically was, I said, I'll go anywhere nobody else wants to go. I was like, you can send me there. You know, if they don't like, you know, the worst places I'll go there. Cause I'm like, that's where, and so, you know, like I was in Liberia, the tail end of Ebola, and that was so terrifyingly shocking.

41:43And I was in, you know, pretty unique places with them that, and I remember when I first went, I went to Nepal for my first trip and it was like a soft touch. It was like, here, do this. I even went to a tiger sanctuary or something. You know what I mean? It was like introducing him to this. And I remember - You'd wanna go to Nepal anyway. Right, exactly. And I remember sitting at the top of this village in this village and I was like, wow, this is like a billion dollar view by the way. Like it's, I mean, it's like, you just look and all around me are these like, is a community that was really struggling because they didn't have a tap, tap, right?

42:22So the kids, the daughter, this young woman was walking two and a half miles up a hill to collect water that was contaminated, right? And this is 20 years ago. So they were putting water in plastic bottles on a corrugated iron roof. So the sun would go through, it would kill all the, but then they're getting all the plastic too, right? Which we know now, but like that was, at least they weren't getting sick from drinking the water. And it was basically the women in this community who had done a map and they were like, so this is the little lake and this is the woods and this is the houses and the huts that people live in.

42:58And this is the one, they don't have an outhouse. So we're trying to get them to put a little outhouse so that they're not defecating anywhere because basically kids are dying from, you know, the disease of, you know, diarrhea. It's like, we'll kill a kid under two and like this, you know what I mean? and in these communities. And I was like sitting there thinking, what do I have to do? What do I have to do to be able to have an impact in a big way for this community, for the things that go there. And I think that part of doing the show is, and all of this is that sometimes I just don't wanna keep pushing myself out there.

43:34Cause it's just a lot. Cause I think when you're trying to do something good in the world, you just get swung with the negative. You know what I mean? like the backlash is just, do you ever feel that? That when you're trying to message really good things, you get the yin and yang of life, right? It just comes with it. And I'm super aware of that. Not nearly on the level that someone like you must have to experience that. Well, I'm super aware of it. So I'm like, I'm gonna do this now and I'm gonna get this then, you know what I mean? And it's like, so I like literally have to go, okay, I'm gonna do this podcast now and try and put a lot of positivity and messaging out.

44:08And I guarantee you, I'm gonna get a slap on the pack from the universe at some point. But you know what I mean? It's like a setup. It's literally like, it is a set. I feel like sometimes I'm like, is it a setup? Is this a simulation? Are we like literally, is that, you know what I mean? But my Buddhist practice would have me go, that works too, whatever. It just pour more love on it. Yeah. Well, what it demands of you is to really look at your relationship with the opinions of other people, right? And this is like a huge thing for me. Okay, you can take that out now. You can take that out right now.

44:43Yeah, but you can't be you without having to contend with that though, you know? But I'm sure there's an emotional, you know, still cost to that. That's the one. That is the one for everyone, right? That's the one. So you have a choice. You can be a shut in and do nothing, or you can do what it is that you're here to do and share your gifts and try to do good. and let the chips fall as they may. That's right. Yeah. Give less fuck. But it's gotta be tough. I mean, you're known all around the world and your partner is known all around the world. Like this is like a Wonder Twins powers activate situation where I'm sure you guys can't go anywhere.

45:24Like how do you - We do, we do, we do. You do? Yeah, yeah, we do, we do. She's, we're very good at that. She's very good at that. She was always good at that. Yeah, we get on with it. This isn't 2006. I remember what it felt like to be Justin Bieber with Hailey Bieber. I remember what that felt like. It's a different time. And thankfully, gratefully, and we're good at it. We're good at, she's always been good at it. And I've always been, I got good at hiding, which wasn't good actually. Like hiding from the world or hiding from yourself? Like just like, I'm just hiding so that I didn't, I think it played out in a lot of ways, but there was a period where I just couldn't go So I used to ride motorbikes to get from A to B.

46:06I wore a baseball hat or I had a hat. I had a hundred different hats. You mean like peak Lord of the Rings time? It was not, it was pirates really. Yeah. Lord of the Rings I was in a blonde wig, didn't, it was hard to, but it was pirates, through pirates and all this stuff, 2006 on, you know, my mom had this article. I always talk about this because I must, it must play into my ego. My ego loves this story, so I'll tell you. But my mom kept this article from the New York Times saying that I was the most, she was like, darling, You're the most Google person on the planet for four years now, it's in the article.

46:35You know, and it was like - That's a lot. Above Britney Spears. That's a lot though. So - How do you even like mentally process that? I was freaked out, freaked out. She was like, we've gotta do something with the internet to do, you know, I'm like freaked out. No, we're not doing anything, I'm hiding. I'm going under this shell and I'm just gonna come out and be on set and I'll do my best to, you know. Yeah, no, that was a lot. It all happened really fast. I mean, you booked and landed Lord of the Rings, like right as you graduated from drama school, right? You've done other things. It wasn't your first thing necessarily.

47:12I mean, I'd moved to London when I was 16 and I'd asked with like a crazy person to get anything. Yeah, it was a lot. And you were what, 20? 20, yeah. Yeah. That's pretty, you know, that would be enough to derail anybody. Yeah. Drugs and alcohol was never a thing for you though, was it? but you never, you didn't get into big trouble with that or anything, did you? I had more, I think, you know, cause I was on my own at 16 in London. I had more, I did a lot of drugs and had a lot of alcohol, but I had that Buddhist practice. And I remember that David who had shakabuked me, which means introduced me, had sort of, I'd said to him, I was like, I even remember saying like, so you saying I could like chant for like more of this, more of that and more of this.

48:01And I was like really into this girl and whatever it may be. And he was like, yeah, do what, chant for all of that. Chant for your self-serving needs and desires. Because it was, because there's this phrase which earthly desires lead to enlightenment. So the earthly desires of me seeking these things, these negative parts, I would wake up in these crazy situations where I shouldn't be at that age. And I'd be like, I shouldn't be here. Okay, where should you be? Not here for starters. Okay, well, let's step out of this. And then it was like, David also, you know, shared the teachings of Dao Sakawakei, who's my mentor.

48:42So I would be reading little bits and I'd be like words like integrity or wisdom or courage or compassion was starting to filter through my, which I was finding through reading. Nobody had told me to. So it was like a part of this self-education tool thing. But with my probably undiagnosed ADHD and dyslexia and like a lot of things, I was like, everything had to be experienced to be understood. So, you know, it's been a very interesting learning curve over the years. And I think that I was disciplined enough, self-regulated enough to know that I didn't wanna, I didn't wanna live in Canterbury.

49:20You know, I'm born in 77. So there was a period where, you know there was a thing of like, go out and be your own. You know, there was a statue, go out and be your own hero and build your own, you know, all of that. So I think, you know, in a way it was like, I was just, I was, I wanted to build and I had a taste for really good things and I could mix with people from the estate and the estate means like an area where it was like, you know, low income housing or whatever, Public housing. Public housing situation. And then I'd have like a boarding school that I was going to where there were like kids who were like, you know, and so, and I just kind of, I don't know, I never felt like I was one thing or another.

50:03You know what I mean? Yeah, no, I get it, I get it, I get it. I mean, this idea, you're not gonna go home to Canterbury, you're gonna continue to pursue this thing, but you're touching up against like some crazy experiences and you know well enough, like, hey, that flame's too hot. But I've gotta figure out a way. I've gotta figure out a way of living for myself that's gonna work. I'm still going there. And you have this Buddhist practice that is as philosophical as it is faith-based. Like it is this roadmap, this sort of art of living kind of philosophy. That's right, art of living. How did that come in?

50:37Explain how that originated for you? So I was 16 and I was 17, sorry, 17 probably. So I did sculpture photography and theater studies knowing that I wanted to be an actor school knowing that I needed art and creativity from my imagination and knowing that like education had been a real challenge up until that point and I'd taken a ton of extra classes to get it any of it but I got it all of it but like it was hard so but for my sculpture exam I had I was really good at just sitting and like you could just put something in front of me and I'd be like and I'd be like whoa cool but I had no I hadn't done a a piece of drawing and I had to have drawings to back up every piece of sculpture that I made.

51:19And I had to have, to show the thought process that went into it. And then I had a 15 hour still life drawing exam, a 15 hour oil painting exam, along with my 15 hour sculpture exam. And my teacher sort of told me this like three months before the exams and all that. And I was like, wait, what? It's like an endurance event. And I was like, my brain just like, cause I was hanging, like I needed those grades for drama school, whatever. I just like, you know. So my best friend, Mark, who's like my brother who I've known since I'm 13 has, and is like literally, you know, saved my life in many ways was like the reason I moved to, helped me get to London and stuff.

52:01Introduced me yet again, coming in to save my life to this artist, David. And David lived in the hometown next to me. And every weekend for about four, or every weekend leading up to the exams, I went down to Folkestone and I, and he would set me up on the knees or when he go here, just look at them yourself in the mirror and paint this and use these. And I'd hear him in the other room and he'd go,

52:25So one day I go, what are you doing? He goes, I'm chanting that you're gonna be really successful in your life and that you're gonna have this like great, you're gonna do amazing your exams. I go, oh cool. Well, will it help? He goes, yeah, I go, cool. So I get down on my knees and I'm just like, I start chanting, right? And then I'm trying to the moon. i'm in this like exam for sculpture and there's a whale bone and a and a and a grapefruit or something i'm painting and i'm like i'd be looking at it i go to the bathroom now i'm yawning you go now i'm yawning come back out and i'm like okay fine carry on anyway got the highest exam got the highest grade in the in i believe they asked to keep my work because i think they were I'm like, this is the grade that we want following year to has to hit.

53:09So we'd like to keep your work and the highest grade in the country kind of thing. I got whatever I was like, and I was like, oh, well, this is working out. Yeah, and you're like, this changing thing. What else did I jump for? That was enough proof for you to look more deeply into whatever this tradition is. Earthly desires leads to enlightenment was a big one for me because I think I, in my young life, in my 20s, I achieved more in my 20s than I thought I ever would. And I realized that most of those things that I thought was gonna make me happy didn't make me happy. You know, like making a lot of money, making more money than I probably ever would need to have made, you know, just meant I wanted to need to make more money to keep up the things that I was buying that I didn't need that I was, you know, there's a whole slew of it, you know, it's like, we're all just over consuming, right?

53:56We all just think we need that. And I'm still doing it, trust me, still doing it. But I'm so much more aware, but I'm like, let go, let go, let go, let go, let go. And the show was just like, oh, so you need to be near death for you to understand that. And that would work if you look at the framework of like probably nearly dying many times. So it's like, so force yourself into that so that you springboard into growth for me. Yeah, interesting, yeah. The experience of falling off the building and breaking, falling out of trees and all that kind of stuff on some level, like, oh, the universe is trying to get your attention.

54:38Maybe this isn't the best way to go about things. I know what we can do. Let's give him everything he wants. And then maybe he'll discover something about himself in that process. Like all the earthly desires satisfied. Now, who are you? Yeah. Now, what are you gonna do? Right. Where are you gonna find meaning? Right. What is purposeful about your life? That's right. What is your, you know, where are you calibrating your compass? To have that lesson at an early age, it could have, look, that experience buries a lot of people, but for you to be able to extract that kind of wisdom out of it to reconfigure your priorities, I think there's something inspirational about that.

55:19Oh, thanks, man. To be gifted with that experience of not only, you were presented with this Buddhist idea as a young person, a lot of young people would have just said that's weird and have no interest, but there was something inside of you that was like, I'm gonna move towards that. Like that seeker thing, I think that is inherent in who you are. I actually got to meet my mentor, which is a huge deal. You were saying before we met that you met the Dalai Lama and I've met the Dalai Lama a couple of times, amazing human, amazing to be in his presence, right? Daisaku Akeda was not somebody anyone could meet really.

55:55And it was very like, he's a unique, He's no longer with us, he passed recently. But I was in Japan with this friend of mine from LA, this really powerful, strong Buddhist woman, was like, he's gonna meet Sensei, I'm making this happen. So she put out a call to say I was there in a way, because I'd been there countless times actually for publicity for movies. And she got a response to say, okay, that Daisaku Ikeda wanted to meet me. And I think there were a lot of really, there's a lot of amazing members in my organization for across the world. And one of them is this therapist from London, friend of mine, married to Sandy Shaw, amazing guy.

56:39He was saying, I couldn't understand why he would meet you. And then I realized he must've been wanting to suss you out. He wanted to see, because I had at that time, a huge following and I couldn't go anywhere following, which was not harnessed by platforms on the internet it was just you know it was just out there and I think he probably wanted to size me up so I remember meeting him I had to get up on stage at this rock festival and say the environment I was just doing something like you know it was like crazy and all these Japanese because I had a big following there went crazy and then I got taken in a car and I got on a train and I went with these amazing buddhas who just like had a sandwich for me and a bottle of water and then were talking to me about what I was about to do which was to meet my mentor I was like okay then I was like and I remember getting off this bus and um seeing him and I literally kid you not I was like oh I've done this before in that moment I was like, oh, we've this other lifetimes, what?

57:49That was, it was, I've got goosebumps going through me as I remember that. Wow. And I got off the bus and I went over and I gave him this massive heart and he pulled me back and he went boom, boom. He smacked you? Like this, he was like, but it was like, it was so, it was like, and then he held me and looked at me and he went, Because I think, first of all, culturally, you don't run up to a Japanese. You don't. Yeah. You know what I mean? He was constantly teaching. And I looked at him. And then we went on this journey through the Nagano Training Center. And I just remember he was, we were in this golf cart and there were people and it was felt like I was on this roller coaster.

58:32I felt like I was on a flying carpet, honestly. And then, you know, he was, he, I had actually, David was with me and my best friend from the show. Chris was there as well. I think you remember the blonde Gibbo and my sister. And he said, I'm giving you this award. I wanna give this medal to your mother. I want you to take this home to your mother. And I was like, you know, and, and I was like, wow. So what's coming up for you right now? What is that? I don't know, dude.

59:13my mom, so I gave her this, I just feel very, yeah I don't know, it was the moment, remembering that because my mom is somebody that I'm constantly learning to evolve and grow the relationship with a boundary that I can navigate and feel safe. We were talking before the podcast about the experience of visiting with the Dalai Lama and his recurring message around the mother's love for the child as a pathway towards compassion and forgiveness and understanding that how we think of ourselves as individuals is an illusion. You were talking about like the, like we're all one, we are all connected and a vehicle or like a portal for really embracing that is being able to connect with that mother's love.

1:00:22And there's something about him deciding that the award should go to your mother that feels related to that in the sense of, it's him recognizing that like his mother's love for you, like what she nurtured in you allowed you to become the person you are. And I think that it's all mothers. I think that when he refers to the mother, or when you're talking to the Dalai Lama, it's the mother, all mothers. He wrote this amazing piece of dialogue, which he said to, and I would love to, there's just the one line in it is that I would love to share briefly because I think it's something that you might appreciate is he talks about a great future lies ahead of you.

1:01:13We will see a transformation of history from the revolution of the external environment to that of the inner self, the human revolution, it will be an age in which the action of leaders will naturally be based on the guidelines of making all mothers happy. And I don't think that, you know, we can always understand that. the depth of that. You know, there's this interesting time we're living in, but it's, and it's constantly for me, it's this constant, like, like the love relationship with my mother is such a unique thing. And it forces me to grow in such an amazing way. You know, and it's the reason why I'm here.

1:02:10I remember when I was in doing Lord of the Rings, I wrote this fax, because we're only faxes, there's no emails. And I wrote this fax to my mom and I just said, cause I was having probably, that was like Nirvana of an experience, you know, of a time in my life. I was the age wise playing Legolas, you know, this theory or being that was like, you know, so just like an imbuing that. Cause I'm a hundred percent committed. I'm not a method actor, but like, I really try to shift my makeup when I go into a character. But I wrote this letter to my mother and I said, I just want you to keep this facts mom because I'm just so grateful for everything.

1:02:50You know, all of it. Cause actually like that was, it was, I wouldn't be here. I wouldn't be on this set with these people if whatever you had done hadn't worked. And even if you knew it or not, do you know what I mean? And all of it, you know, because I think, I think we're all, you know, I don't know, like are we all coming back lifetimes? Are there different? Do you feel like you met people who've like, oh, they've done this a million times. I feel like there are people who just go, So, oh, there's an ancient wisdom there. How many times have we done this podcast together? So I'm like, but like, I would say my mother, I would say, I would say perhaps I've been here.

1:03:22I would say in some ways, I don't know, but like there are aspects of my mother, which I'm like, wait, wait, what? This is the, wait, and then come back to, no. Okay, this is the lesson. This is the lesson. So what am I gonna do with it? But the gratitude seems like a consistent thing with you. Has to be. Yeah, has to. Does that come easy? Or do you have to work on that? I think when you say Nam-myo-renge-kyo, you're just basically saying, I'm grateful, I'm grateful, I'm grateful, I'm grateful, I'm grateful, I'm grateful, I'm grateful. So no, I work on it all the time. No, are you kidding me? My head is like, I mean, it's untethered.

1:04:03You saw the show. Throughout the show, there's a kind of recurring motif of you chanting the mantra. and there's something funny about it too. Like there's a comic, I mean, if anything's gonna get memed out of the show, prepare yourself for that, you know what I mean? Meme away. However we can get the messaging out there, you know what I mean? Listen, it would have been an easier and safer choice to just leave that part out, you know what I mean? Let's just make a show, you're jumping out of planes, you're doing all this stuff, and clearly you were like, no, this is central to what I wanna say.

1:04:37to my life. It's my life. And what do you want people to take from that? That I was always looking for a roadmap. I was confirmed in the Cathedral of Canterbury by the Archbishop of Canterbury. That is no - Yeah, that's some real shit. That's a big deal. Yeah. You can't not Jesus. And you have like 10 names. What's your full name? Orlando Jonathan Blanchard Copeland Bloom. It's a mess. Yeah. It's a mess. You just need like a Duke or Lord or whatever attached to that. You can't, so you can't knock Jesus, right? But I used to see him on the cross. I'd sing hymns and Psalms in chapel every morning and I'd be looking at him, I'd be like, I feel so bad.

1:05:23But I didn't put you there. I'm so sorry you're there. And it was maybe through the teachings as well. And I had an amazing school chaplain, by the way, who was just like basically love, you know, like, but for whatever reason so but I was like so I met the practice at 16 because I hadn't you know I hadn't found a church or something but I knew I needed a philosophy or a practice because it's I think I'm just inherently also quite spiritual um so everything is is dialed slightly that way whether it's journeying with medicine or whatever it may be it's always got that element to it. But I think that, you know, I saw, I think it's just Nam-myo-renge-kyo was my journey, my path to understanding that we are all connected.

1:06:15We are, you know, what you do to somebody else will come back to you, whether that be good or bad. And that unless we're all happy, none of us are happy, not really. so I can get all of these things we can go out and I can keep accumulating and I can have all these things but did it make me happy that like the process of like yeah of course like when I'm driving really fast in my Porsche I'm like but I can enjoy that moment but what makes me most happy is when I'm standing on the edge of the the village that actually had a tap and that there there were prayer flags and there were classrooms and they were just living like with just being able to have water, right?

1:07:04But like, so I don't know, like, yeah, I mean, I'm a big hippie at heart probably. I'm like a big old - The hippie from Canterbury grown in the church of England. Yeah, yeah, exactly. I'm a mess of experience. Yeah, it's just, it's interesting to be raised in the church in that way. And then connecting with a different faith tradition and having that resonate with you and with staying power, like from 16 on, it wasn't a flirtation. There've been times in my life where I haven't chanted as consistently, but the fundamental practice and that thing, and I'm always saying it, even when I'm not, if I don't sit in front of my Gohonzon every morning, but I do now more and more.

1:07:45And actually through these conversations, I've realized how much I need to get my study up. So there are three parts of my practice, practice, study, and sharing. and it's like, I need study so bad. You're doing a lot of sharing right now. And I need the study. And it's like, oh, come on. What makes this tradition different from Zen Buddhism, Tibetan, other variations of Buddhism? For me, it's very user friendly. It's very taking action. I do meditate by the way, I do TM, but I find that yoga for the mind. But this is like, my eyes are open and I'm about taking action in this moment. it's very accessible there is amazing wisdom by Daisaku Akeda that I can I can get very easily little snippets I can go as deep as I want if I want to deep go like study the ghost show and go deep into what you know the thinking of Nishra and Daishonin was that brought this this teaching to the world I can go back to Shaka Muni I can it kind of encompasses everything and there's a a mystical aspect, which is completely unfathomable, which plays into the part of my magical thinking, which is how am I even here?

1:08:58So for me, it's the perfect package. It's the art of living. And, you know, I'd encourage anybody who wanted to chant Nam Myoho Renge Kyo. You say it after me, will you? Will you say Nam? Nam. Myoho. Myoho. Renge. Renge. Kyo. I can't say it as fast as you. I don't know how you. Myoho Renge Kyo. Nam, myoho, myoho, Renge Kyo. So now like I believe, and I said this to Jay, you never have to say that again, but my practice, my faith has taught me that you've just protected seven generations in your past and seven generations in your future. I believe that for you. So you have, and that's my faith.

1:09:39That sounds wild, but I believe that. Now, if you imagine, let's take that forward. this lifetime is just the is is just in preparation for the next lifetime right i'm an eternal buddha i'm going to keep coming back if i maybe that gives me a certain it's like my it's like my cape it's like superman's cape i've gone flying you know what i mean it's like my protection maybe that thinking because of my upbringing is what helps me right like i respect people all people of faith i do think that faith has led to some catastrophes around the world but like my My parents-in-law, I mean, Katie's parents, pastors, and always praying.

1:10:21And when they pray for me, I feel that and I respect it and I feel it deeply. And I know that they're protecting me. That's beautiful, man. But I know also that for me, like access to is what works. So, check out the SGI.org. and they don't want money from you. That was the crazy thing. I never got asked for a cent. I've never been asked for a cent, not one cent. And look at your blessed life. Yeah, I mean, I've given a lot, but only because I chose to, not because nobody's ever asked me for a thing. It's so interesting. Isn't that interesting? I always think that's a, there's a really interesting tell there, isn't it?

1:11:04You can tell something whether they want money from you. When you recite the mantra though, you do it. is there something about the speed, the cadence? Cause you do it so quickly and it takes on this tone. It's sort of like Oming, you know, in that tradition, like the sound of the universe, like there's a throat singing kind of vibe that you get. I also recite by the way, two chapters from the Lotus Sutra as part of my practice. It's very Japanese because Nishwun Daishonin took it through the silver pass, landed in Japan, right? And this is so, there's a very Japanese aspect to it when I love Japanese culture.

1:11:40I don't know how much time he spent in Japan, but like, oh, love Japanese culture. And so I recite two chapters, the lifespan and the expedience mean chapter as well. And like, just, it's like,

1:11:56and it goes on for five minutes. And that's in me now because I've been reciting that, but it just, and it comes very naturally. And then, you know, and that's, and I chant to a scroll and I have like a little incense and light a candle and there's a little bit of greenery and some fruit. It's very beautiful and it just is like centering, that's it. Is this something that your partner and your kids practice as well? Like how does that go down in the household? So my partner definitely has, I said, as I've said, has had a history of being raised in a church. So she has her own relationship with all things that are of the world and not, right?

1:12:40And it's really, really beautiful actually and interesting. But she fully is on board and respects and wants me and loves and appreciates me doing that. And we'll say like, when she really is in moments, she'll say that. And Daisy, I say every morning and night and she says, whenever I hang up the phone, I'm like, if I'm away, if I was timing. And Flynn had the same every Nam-Yot. But the way that I was Shakabuku by David, again, being introduced, he was a very hands, he was very aware, like he didn't force anything. And I feel that that's something that's really important. People will, they need to make it their own, right?

1:13:27It needs to be your own. You need to feel good about it. You need to want something or there has to be a reason for it. And it resonates, it definitely resonated for me. So that's why I'm doing it. And maybe it doesn't for everyone, but then, you know, whatever works for you, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So when you're doing your TM and you're reciting your mantra, do you feel like you're cheating? Do you feel like you're cheating on your first true love? Oh my God, that's such a good question. I literally came out here this morning and I told you my brain was like going, why am I doing a rich roll cop?

1:13:54What have I got to say? What is there? There's nothing, this is insane. What are you doing? You know, you're like, you just have, you know, you just dribbled on with Jay. I mean, well, he tried like, Like those are the stories that the intruder in my head would have me believe, right? So I'm literally meditating for 10 minutes. I'm like, charm, bro. Like the 20 minute time is on my phone and I stopped. And then I'm like. When you're meditating, you feel like you should be chanting. When you're chanting, you're thinking I should meditate. So TM is not a religious practice. And I find it to be really helpful to me.

1:14:27Just like if I'm on set and I'm just like, my body and brain are tapped. because I'm like redlining, because that's how I am. Then I just go, and it's like, it just shuts everything off. But when I wake up in the morning and I chant, it's like starting the engine. And when I go to bed and I chant, it's like saying, thank you. And it's just saying, thank you. I'm just saying thank you all the time, basically. Those two practices are compatible. For me. Yeah, absolutely. And I think they are, yeah. And by the way, don't you think every religious practice, every spiritual thinker comes at a certain point, and it's all like, don't you think they all?

1:15:03Well, we get caught up in the trappings. I mean, you can get caught up in the words and the mantras and the costuming of all of these things and lose sight of the core truths. And I think that's really at the root of all the strife that we have when it comes to the institutionalization of these various strains of thought, which at their core are all beautiful in their essence, I think, and share more than they disagree on. Yes. Yes. Agreed.

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1:17:13So what is it that like is the thing that you're working on now? Like where's the piece where you don't really wanna grow, but you know you need to? Like where's that edge with the inside job work? Like study, I think it's always study. It's always for me is like just, you know, So going back to, I think I can always learn more, reading, studying, listening, like not getting distracted by other things or choosing like time, navigating time. And it's always, it's pretty much like constantly trying to come back to studying and learning and educating and myself so that I'm just like a more, keep being a more fully formed human.

1:18:01And so what does that look like now? Like, what are you reading? What are you looking at? What are you exploring? It's kind of like Edge was an opportunity for me to physically push that boundary and go out. I think a lot of stuff that I've been reading of late has been around relationships. So just because I didn't have a frame of reference for a relationship. So a lot, I've done a lot of stuff around relationships, reading a lot around relationships. You did Hoffman too. Hoffman was a great reveal. Yeah. The possibly one of the greatest reveals, yeah. What did it show you? That, you know, if I leash in my intellect, you know, which is that voice in my head that can be super judgmental and negative, and or is the one that is able to analyze a paper and take things on, you know?

1:18:56Yeah. Which is super necessary. and if I leash in my inner child, which is the one that is like, I just need a hug or is the one that is like, let's play, be creative, is the creative genius in me. And if I pay attention to my body so that my body is functioning and I'm taking care of it, then my highest self, the best version of myself will be the operating programming that I'm working from. And that's the best version, right? because there are five things that I was once told there were five things, you know, that you're just to keep check of, which is like, and I'll probably forget them now, but like don't do drugs, right?

1:19:39Alcohol, drugs, whatever, don't like spiritual practice, physicality, movement, relationship. This is in no particular order by the way, relationship. And I'm not gonna remember the last one, sorry. But I have these touchstones that I keep, But for me, it's like, I'm constantly trying to navigate the inside of my brain and focus. So I'm like drawing things down. So it's constantly condensing, condensing, condensing, condensing down to presence. So that formula for accessing your higher self. I'm really frustrated that I can't remember the thing. It's probably something around service or work, right?

1:20:15Yeah, service, exactly. Work, career. Work, career, service. But this idea - They're all the same, everyone's got the same. What's the flip side of that, you know, way to access the best version of yourself? Like what comes up when you're not conscious of taking care of yourself in that way? That maybe Hoffman, you know, kind of put a mirror up to. Frustration. You mean the flip, the negative? Yeah. The thing that I'm... The inverse. The inverse is, you know, it's like frustration, I would say from a very early age, because sometimes I feel like if there's a window to my brain, I have to move the window.

1:20:54Other people have just like, they can just go, but I'm like going, and that's really frustrating. But what's the upside to that? In moving it, I'm seeing other things. You know what I mean? I'm always trying to find the positive, but. And so where does the fear land for you now? I think it was like the show was about me and my practice about taking responsibility, right? Like if I get so good at taking responsibility for myself, then you can start taking responsibility for all those other people and people that just don't have the possibility, don't have either, they just don't have this lifetime, in this lifetime, haven't been given the opportunities, right?

1:21:38Or, and so I think responsibility, you know, being taught to be super capable, being physically, you know, and then trusting that and just letting go and just, you know, not caring, less caring about what other people think and say and just like, let's go, bro. And so the fear is around what would happen if you really did let go in that way? Yeah, the fear is like, yeah, it's like, they're just, you know, it's just, it's the usual things. It's all the usual both slings and arrows, right? People are gonna throw at you for this, that, and the other, you know trip you up along the way because you're not you know you're not you haven't articulated that correctly you haven't you know you've rambled on you haven't like i think there's nuance right the amazing thing about a podcast the amazing thing about sitting here is that there's subtlety and nuance to this level of communication and if somebody actually bothers to take the time and watch this whole thing they'll see the way your heart and communication and intellect has has has probed questions in me to allow my heart intellect and to do a dance, right?

1:22:43And hopefully they'll appreciate where my heart is coming from, right? But when things are put in writing, they get lost. So often things get put in writing and the nuance and subtlety of what's being communicated at the time, I can say with all my hand and my heart, I just want this to be a loving and it'll be taken out of context. And he said this about her, right? He did this, you know, it's like just so that you can, and that's what I mean about stepping out of your comfort zone, being brave, because you know, that's what's gonna come around. And that's a control, like, that's a control. And trying to control that.

1:23:18You have no, you can't control that. No. You can control what comes out of your mouth. And it doesn't matter. You can't control how people are gonna interpret that or what they're gonna do with that. And I think the other thing is that it doesn't matter. And actually like, if somebody had said to me, if I'd had anyone to say to me, bro, you're good. early on, like when I was in some of that period of time where I was like, wait, super visible and it's okay, bro, you're gonna make a mistake, but it's all right. Like in the great scheme of things - You didn't have a mentor or some older person in your life who could - Only Daisaku would cater in that.

1:23:51I didn't have like, I didn't have, I didn't necessarily have a mentor who was going, no, no, I don't think I could, I don't think, I didn't have anyone, no, I don't, so by the way, it was a super unique circumstance. I mean, like how many other people like, you know, I think not many people could even relate to what I was going. I mean, I was like, you know, I think when I got out of the car in Leicester Square, like Keira Knightley, when we were doing Pirates of the Caribbean and Johnny wasn't there at that time. So I guess I was the, it was like, she was like, he's like a one man boy band. It was crazy, bro.

1:24:21It was crazy at that time. It was bonkers. What do people not understand about what that experience is like? That it creates a pattern of thinking or it creates an earwig or a, that you just, you're overwhelmed the whole time. You're just overwhelmed the whole time. So when you're like, like just when you see somebody come at you and all they want to do is for you to go, Hey, can I get a photo? And you're like, but you're in this feeling of just like, you're just trying to get from A to B. You just want to get from A to B. You just want to, you've got to swim across this, this field of sharks to get to this island so you can have lunch because at, because you're overwhelmed, the feeling of being super overwhelmed by the visibility, by the self-worth aspects, right?

1:25:07I think it comes back, am I enough? Right. And you see it play out with all of these wonderful artists in the world who were just trying to do their thing. You know what I mean? All of these artists in the world, you know, my partner, people in the world, they're all just like trying to put this messaging out because they've been born with it, right? They've been born into it and they don't quite know how to navigate all of it. And there's a whole thing and there's a whole programming going, yeah, but you gotta have this, you gotta, and it's like, no, no, no, no. But just pull more love on it, pull more love on it.

1:25:36And that's what they're really trying to do at their essence. But at times I think they're just so overwhelmed, you know? It's just like, it's like abrasive on the skin. Yeah, and at that age, the brain isn't developed and it's too much attention, too much money. I mean, you talked about the world being a simulation. Isn't it more interesting watching a car crash? You have to imagine like, it is a simulation. why is everybody in the world responding to me in this way? Of course, that's gonna fuck with you and make you crazy. And your ego and your... And unless you're lucky enough to have some, be surrounded, not with yes people who are financially invested in whatever you're doing, but like objective people who have your best interest at heart and aren't afraid to tell you what's what, like, you know, you're gonna go sideways.

1:26:19I had a great, my manager was always so wonderful. and in a way like I didn't, you know, I stopped working there recently, not because I didn't love her and I do love her and I miss her and I kind of like, but because I needed to like fly, I needed to let go of, I needed to build something out because she had been this protector in some ways as well. She was amazing. So, but I think, yeah, I think the real, it's an interesting little pool to navigate. And I think my, I do have a great therapist and he gives me this analogy. It's like getting into a burning juggernaut, right? It's like, you get it.

1:27:03And everyone goes, oh my God, the juggernaut, it's on fire, it's gonna explode. And everyone's like, wow. And then you just gotta, you gotta be able to go, okay, getting out now guys. Douse me down, get me back. Okay. Am I good? Yeah, we're good, bro. You had the suit on, you're good, you can get out and then but I think for some people they just think the burning juggernaut is the thing but it's not you gotta be outside of that right like the burning juggernaut is the thing that you get paid to do for that 15 minutes or whatever that may be but you're gonna be in that but then you got to get out and then you got to go okay what are the things that I can do in my daily life that helped me to navigate it now I was 16 when I was learning how to cook pasta for myself and that and survive so I know I know how to do that but like you have to keep learning those things.

1:27:48Because by the way, when you get older and you've got somebody who's making food or whatever, you put yourself in a position where, but it's like, so what are the things that keep bringing you back? The walk in nature, the bike, what are the things that just keep bringing you back to doing the work? Because if you're not doing the work, whatever that means for you, then it's gonna come and bite you. Yeah. And the work is the thing. The work is. The work is the thing, but how does that mesh with somebody who's so prone to these heightened peak experiences, who experienced them to an extraordinary degree as a young person, right?

1:28:25Like you can't, as somebody who's gonna always chase, like what's the next exciting thing, it's impossible to match like Pirates and Lord of the Rings, but to remember that, it's about the work, you know what I mean? And like, you're still doing the work and the work is the thing and you're really good at it and you're sharing your art and your craft and all of it, but it's a different thing now. I think it's like a canvas. And I think the canvas in this lifetime will come to an end when I drop this flesh sack. You know what I mean? But until then I'm painting a picture and I'm just gonna keep going.

1:29:07And if it's a dark purple because I've F something up or if it's a bright pink, cause I did the right thing, at the end of my life I'll look at the canvas and go cool bro nice one and then back yeah you know but the colors of my canvas I don't want to be just a whole bunch of pinks and pale yellows and pale blues I want the rich colors I want that stuff even if I don't mentally want it because I'm like I don't want to deal with it I actually do I know I do history has taught me that I do circumstances have taught me that I do. So if I just keep, and then just keep shouting, just keep doing it, just keep painting it.

1:29:48So, okay, this too shall pass, all of it. All those old adages, right? All those idle hands, there's a devil's playground. You wonder like this simulation? Yeah, somebody went like, throw this one in. Well, and the Buddhist idea of impermanence also. Yes. It's all a sand mandala that's blowing in the wind. And we're here like this, right? But the canvas that you're painting with Edge, this TV show is different in that it's you. Is this the first thing you've done where it wasn't a character, you're on screen being yourself? Totally. So it's not surprising that you have a heightened sense of like vulnerability.

1:30:28Yeah, I'm feeling. Doing the show and now talking about the show and being out there and being who you are. Yeah, yeah, it's really like a lot. and I'm grateful, but it's a lot. It's been a lot in my head, yeah. Who are the people that inspire you? Like who do you look to for guidance, counsel, in art, in life, in lifestyle and wellbeing? So Daisaku Akato is at the top of the artist just cause that's been part of it. I have a core group of like Buddha brothers who I just like refer to when I'm like, and I like David who introduced me, I love how he lives. Celeste, who's this remarkable artist, founded the Trevor Project, amazing.

1:31:19Celeste Lucene, my best friend, Mark White, who's like kept me centered and Gibbo who you see on the show. Like we have this little, so those are the people that I'd kind of like look at. It says a lot that your closest friends are the people that you grew up with that you've known for such a long time. I think I needed to choose family and I think I was fortunate and I feel like it's very mystical. I definitely feel it's very mystical. The same way that I still, Daisaku Wakeda was like, oh, I feel like these guys, we've just found each other again in a way. That's how my brain works. So I'm sorry if that doesn't work for you, but that's how it works for me.

1:31:55And I definitely feel that way. Those boys, that team, then. I think education was always a real challenge up until I went to drama school where I felt like I got my first dose of real education because like I was like, metaphysiology was like the writings of, you know, the metaphysical poets like John Donne or Milton and that language helped me to understand what I was reading and, you know, helped me to key into my imagination. because otherwise I think I was just really like, so yeah, like, you know, and then I'm amalgamation of all my own, you know, there are books that I've read that like had an impact like at different times, but like, I think I tried to keep coming back to that, like the Dos Akiwakeda Capsules, because it's also like bite size and I can swallow it and it really resonates for me.

1:32:57But, you know, like I remember reading Perfume by Patrick Siskind and it was like, wow, that was like, what a, you know, the journey that that character went on and the, or, you know, I don't know, like, I know it's Anne Rand, but the Fountainhead was like, you know, that was not, she's like some of the thinking in there, but, you know, or, but there were, there was just lots of different, at different times, but because reading was such a struggle for me as well, you know, it's like listening is much easier. So now I get much more, like listening to your podcast, audio really hard. And like, you know, like there are so many experts on your show.

1:33:31It's like, I was like, that's, there's a whole, that gives hope. Doesn't that give hope? Don't you sit in front of people and go, oh, there's hope. You know what gives me hope? The young people. Like, I feel like - Elaborate. Well, my son's 13 and I'm like, he doesn't want the things that, he's like, I bought him a pair of Travis Scott sneakers and he's like, great, but he's not really attached to them. He left them behind. He didn't take them home with him. Do you know what I mean? or they hopefully there's they're not so driven by the need to consume but experiencing the world and what's the best way to experience the world nature life right so what are we doing it we're ruining it for them so they're going you we want to go and swim in that lake without having to wear like a wetsuit because the sun's gonna but or whatever like maybe the young people once this old, hopefully, you know, not speaking to anyone or anything, but like, you know, there's a lot of like, hopefully those young people are just gonna be like, and you know, Sensei Takakata always refers to the young people.

1:34:39There is something to that. There's certainly a level of empathy and a kind of more purposeful, meaning-driven sensibility to Gen Z. Yeah, like it's not about like, I don't get the sense that they're all gunning to go work at Goldman Sachs. You know what I mean? Like it's more important to have experiences and to find something that is giving back and gives them a sense of meaning. You know what I mean? I don't know. No, I think it's a reaction. Yeah, exactly. It's a reactionary impulse. You know what I mean? But to your point of like earthly desires will be your teacher, like our example, good or bad is creating that, right?

1:35:23Whether it's reactive or influenced by, matters less than the fact that it is happening. And I take comfort and hope in that as well. I think that is interesting. And the young people, historically, always they get grief, they're, what are they doing, blah, blah, blah. But I see a lot of hope in the younger generation. So your son's 13, right? So he's just sort of coming online with what he's into and what he wants to be and what he wants to do, which is an exciting time. Yeah, yeah, that's interesting. We've barely even talked about like acting at all. And this is really about you and the show, but what is it about acting that gives your life meaning?

1:36:05Like what is it that you're channeling that feels resonant and important to you that keeps you coming back to it? The opportunity to portray a character and hopefully shine a light on, with compassion on the experience of that character. And if you're doing it well, which I don't know that I've done, sometimes it's a bit hidden, but like, which is why I love doing it because I'm trying to get better all the time is that you're shining a light. You know, Lear is a great one, right? You watch Ian McKellen do Lear and it's like, oh. You suddenly understand she's good. When you see him do it. The compassion of a broken human, because we're all broken.

1:36:53We're all, you know, we're all lost looking for it, right? So the opportunity in performing a character is like, oh, I'm gonna get to shine a light on the psyche of this person, you know? And my job is just not to F that up and to really understand what the psyche of that character is. And sometimes you get an amazing character to do that with. then sometimes it's like, character, well, I'll try and create something and fill in the blanks for that character. But, you know, but I just keep throwing myself at everything and into it because so long as it's like resonates, you know, I feel like I'm gonna learn something.

1:37:34And like, you know, my cousin used to say when we go to see movies, like there isn't a bad movie. You learn something from all movies, you know, even the worst movies, you learn something from, like that's, don't do that, you know. But like, I don't think anyone endeavors on an artistic exhibition, like creating a movie with the intention of making it bad. It's just, there's just levels of - It's amazing any movie even gets made and then an absolute miracle when a movie is good. And by the way, with the event of AI, I mean, what's it all gonna look like 10 years from now? I don't know. I don't know.

1:38:08I think the movie industry is very much in question right now. and it's trying to figure out a way forward. Like, what does it mean? Where is its place in a culture that is not - And yet, a movie like Oppenheimer and Barbie can make - Sure, they break out. They break out and they're incredible, but by and large, like it isn't, we don't, you know, it's a good thing that we're not in a monoculture anymore, but there's something lost also when we don't all come together as a collective to enjoy a piece of art in the way that we did when we were kids that I have some nostalgia for, I think. I agree.

1:38:42And it's not a judgment, like I don't know that any of this is good or bad, but I just think it's changed and it's continuing to change. And I think that change is gonna accelerate. I don't see AI upending movies per se for quite some time. It's really hard to imagine that as good as the technology could be. I think the humanity - There's a first move in AI, which is yet to be, which we're still, and I keep trying to think, what's that first move? What is that gonna be? And whether, what do I, how much of that? because it'll be interesting, but I'm like, what is it gonna look like? Because at some point, that it's...

1:39:20I was fortunate to hear Sam Altman speak on some of these issues at a conference. And he just said, and it was so interesting. So Flynn has not known a world without the internet. I grew up without the internet, I didn't have any of it. Didn't have a mobile phone. So we, as we didn't have. My daughter is never going to understand a world without super intelligence, super intelligence. And what does that do? What does that mean? What does that look like? What does that mean? How do you combat that? And he actually said something, which is what I said, it's gonna be about the inner revolution. And I think it's gonna be about discipline because I think it's gonna be the people that learn how to say no to their spending 10 hours swiping or whatever you need to do on your phone, which I, or buying, or the people who have the discipline to simplify, right?

1:40:15To come back to the basics, right? Perhaps those are the people that aren't the NPCs, as they're called, right? Who are gonna be the ones that move forward and actually have an impact. Because I think everybody's got the opportunity to have an impact. It's just whether you know it or whether you were raised with the opportunity to understand that or whether, you know, your makeup has given you that, has posed that possibility for you. That's an interesting idea. It makes me think of, you know, how one comes up with a new idea. Like you have to sort of step outside the matrix and not be influenced or part of a certain kind of machine in order to see things differently and take a stand for a new idea.

1:40:58Right. And when super intelligence and the internet is sort of commandeering all of our attention all of the time. And the algorithms are dictating what we see and what we read and what we hear. I love my algorithm, by the way. Those algorithms start to program us, right? And then it becomes harder and harder to have an original idea. That's right, that's right. Is part of what Sam or maybe you are saying. Yeah, that's right. And there are people that just are uniquely gifted at having a unique idea, by the way. Not everybody, we're all, you know, some people, I do think some people are born lucky.

1:41:30than others you know there's not I mean certainly you can make a certain amount of your luck but it depends how much work you're willing to do and I think that like we are being conditioned into thinking less work is more but I think you know like that old adage like we said about the idle hands make for the devil's playground because actually I think just getting up and moving some dirt or planting something or doing like doing something physical whatever it may be there's such there's such benefit to that, you know? And so what does that daily routine look like for you? I don't know that there's a routine, but it's like, there is, there's something, I mean, it's, you know, if there's definitely a chanting, there's definitely, you know, a moving my body, trying to sweat, there's definitely, you know, getting into the sun and moving into nature.

1:42:20There is definitely, if I have the opportunity, you know, different times, and then I'm trying to vary it all up, you know, trying to mix it up, like so that my body doesn't expect the same things or my mind or my experience isn't the same. So like, but I'm not much of, I'm not one for sitting down and around much, you know, I'm more like, you know, moving so I could keep learning to sit down and around more and maybe read, study more would be good to add to my - What about the fitness piece? I mean, you're incredibly fit in the show. Thanks. You're pretty fit right now. I'm all right. What does that break down?

1:42:57Because of my back injury, a lot of it is like, you know. Does that cause you pain to this day? What is the, it does. To a certain, not massively to be fair, actually not massively, but it just requires stabilizing my spine, right? Cause the spine is a weird thing, right? Isn't this a little funny, you know, anyway. So yeah, just functional work now. Like I think I just did this movie, which I'm really proud of called The Cut that I produced and it's gonna come out, but I had to drop, it's a boxing movie, but the fight is making weight, like they call it cutting weight. And I dropped from 185 pounds to 185, I'm about 180 right now, just in front of you.

1:43:40I went to a 151. That's legit. Over how much, how long of a period of time? Two months, something like that. And it was, what was going on in my brain the dehydration, because I was cutting water. I was like, I did, I threw everything at it to get to it. And the final thing, right? I was sitting at 160-ish, 160 something for like weeks to the end. And then this wonderful nutritionist, Philip Golley, who like had helped some great actors do their thing as well. He's in Santa Monica. He said, all right, he timed everything out, but he was like, now's the Epsom salt bath. So I get into an Epsom salt bath with 25 pounds of Epsom salt in the bath.

1:44:26And I get into it, boiling hot up to my neck. And I'm like, I have videos of me just like, which is what the fighters do actually. And I have, that's what we do in the movie as well. So it's kind of - The movie is about cutting weight as a boxer. As a boxer. It's called The Cut. It's about making weight. Sean Ellis directs it, John Turturro, Katrina Balfe and myself. And then a wonderful cast, supporting Axis. and we shot it for no money in London, just like last summer. And it was, anyway, so I get out of this bath. He said, chug two bottles of water. I'm like, really, I had people help me get into the bed.

1:45:01Cause I, again, no barrier, no gatekeeper, push it super far, drink the water, get it, get it. I woke up in the morning and I don't know, it's osmosis, but I dropped 10 pounds overnight. Wow. 10 pounds of water weight. So it's just seeping out of your skin. It was wild. We have the video, we have the photos and I'm like on the - The sodium in the - Yeah, it was wild. 10 pounds overnight. Yeah. And that took me to one. And then I was like, then I was living in this space, just eating cucumber and tuna, cans of tins of like, cause basically and like hardly any water for like, until I got, so we started the movie, we filmed the end, the final scene is him like standing on the scales going.

1:45:42Making weight. Making weight. And there's a part to it, which is it's a slightly crazy thing that he does to get there finally. Cause anyway, I won't spoil it, but it was wild anyway. And I get, and he's like, so we started the movie at that point and then I had to put on weight as we went through. So the crazy thing was, there's me going, wow, at different points of like, well, 169 looks pretty good, bro. Or one, you know, and it's all really about male, you know, the male body dysmorphia. I mean, you can, you, you know, I mean, you can speak to this too, right? It's like, we're so over, overly aware of what we look like and stuff.

1:46:15So part of it, part of the movie, we're all like that by the way. And I realized that everybody's got a DC disorder. You know what I mean? It's like the movie is about that. Male, the look at all of that stuff. Like, why do we do this to ourselves, right? I like to say it's because I wanna improve the way I think and feel. So I'm eating for my brain now, right? Right. Which I think is - That's convenient. Being convenient later, yeah. I like to do that. That's my ego. What did it feel like when you were 151? Like there is a weird euphoria with that, right? It was the weird, I mean, I was like paranoid.

1:46:51I was having paranoid attacks. I was totally like, like the dehydration and everything. I was like, I had a real, I was really struggling and I was open and vulnerable. I was like, I couldn't, I like, I literally sometimes was holding people to move around because I was so dehydrated as well. Cause I'd like, you know, I'd taken things to help with the dehydration. So I was like out and my bones, like, so bone, you know, like that was where my body was like, okay. Were you having blood work done? And you were medically supervised doing that. Some, somewhat, not when I got to England. I mean, that's like machinist territory.

1:47:28Here I was, here I was doing it. That movie, The Machinist. Yeah, well, a guy who I worked with, yeah, he's worked with Christian Bell. I'm not sure on that one, but he's worked with him, bailed on some stuff. I love Christian. Actually, you know, part of a really great performance when you actually put your body through that, that's what will come of it. Sure, because you're actually doing it. You're living it. You're living it. So obviously that's gonna translate onto the screen. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Every aspect of it. Yeah, that's very method though too. I guess you kind of have to. You're not gonna be able to costume your way through that.

1:47:58I mean, no. And also like, you know, I wanted to burn the barn down on this one. You know, it's like I kind of had been developing it for years with this producer. and, you know, getting to make it, like we said, is lightning in a bottle. And, you know, who knows? How do you choose your parts? It's not like I get like, to be honest, I know what, like there was a period where it was just all top drawer material and I'm getting sent. And it's like, I don't know. I had a really great manager and a lot of it was like, can't see the wood for the trees. There were things I look back and I go, how did I miss on that?

1:48:34Because I remember that being on my path, but I didn't do that. Yeah. And I didn't do that. Why? What? Oh, I did this. Okay. But that's, and you, so letting go, letting go. Like everything is, so now it's like, I don't want to leave my family too much, but there's nowhere I'd rather be than on set. So I'm like, and I've, and of late, you know, I would say in the last few years, a lot of it has just been like, let's roll the dice, see what happens. I don't know. There's variables here that don't add up ordinarily, you know, like. And of course there's a very kind of low hanging fruit joke with your show, right?

1:49:12Like, is this not just a big, you know sort of mission impossible audition? Like is there some one up, upsmanship for Cruz to feast his eyes on here? 100%, who knows? Like, I don't know if he's done Wingsu. Yes, I don't think he has. He's done a lot of shit, but I don't know if he's done Wingsu. Somebody told me that. And by the way, he is, I consider him to be the head of the arrow. He has been a movie star. Well, the stuff he's doing is wild. He has been the fun of the movies. He has, and he is like, so like nothing but hats off. He produced a movie I did with Cameron Crowe called Elizabeth Town and I have the utmost respect for that man.

1:49:48But it is interesting because he does it all and he just does it all. He just keeps showing up and doing all of it. And I'm like. He's got no time for anybody one upping him though. No. You know what I mean? Isn't that interesting? I don't think he's interested in having anyone come in and take over the Mission Impossible franchise. I think somebody told me actually. He's gonna do it. Yeah, he's gonna do it. He's gonna wingsuit into a car in the next Mission Impossible. That's how he's gonna go out in life. I think somebody told me that if he hadn't done it, which I think maybe, I don't know if he's done it, but I can't, I wouldn't.

1:50:22But I think part of it was like, you don't see it on film in the same way. Like wingsuiting, it's hard to see, but it's the fastest, you're moving faster than anything. it's the fastest we can possibly move on a, by without, you know, and you're, you know, you're cutting through the sky, but it doesn't, it doesn't, it's hard. I don't know if you saw in the show because we went over water, so maybe you see it, but it's hard. But you have that long lens shot where you can see the water moving beneath you really quickly, which gives you a sense of. And there's some other shots, but it's hard to capture.

1:50:54Whereas skydiving there's, you know, you can get like a bunch of guys with, who really know what they're doing in the air to catch you like that, you know, which he's done epically, you know, and made a remarkable, you know, and, you know, the jumping and the, with the bike, it was, I mean, I'd love to do that. I mean, imagine you're getting painted and he loves it, he, for sure, he loves it. But he's a, he, now, now, now there's a guy who's like an expert at everything. He's been doing it for a very long time. Yeah, and he surrounded himself with an incredible team of people that facilitate and train him.

1:51:29to be that guy. But you know, he fucking doesn't fuck. I mean, he goes all the way, dude. He does. He's speaking your language on some level. Oh yeah, we definitely had, I definitely, yeah. But as you said, the low hanging fruit is, is this just a massive commercial for my next franchise that I'm, by the way. It's just one big audition tape, right? I mean, there is that aspect to it. In Hollywood. There is that aspect to it, but and probably in the back of my brain, and there's a part of me which is like, what have I got left to prove, you know? And what else do I, you know? But hopefully people will keep come back to just the humanity of it.

1:52:08Because I think it's more about humanity. And I try to have that play throughout all the characters. Sure, there's a sense of like, what am I, you know, I'm trying to prove to myself that I can do these things, that I can do hard things, be on the edge, learn something about myself. But fundamentally, the greater lesson that you're also trying to embrace is that you're already enough, dude. Right, yeah. You deserve to be loved for exactly who you are right now. You don't have to go out and accomplish anything in order to be entitled to that. Well, I really hope that's the takeaway for everyone.

1:52:43They all go, I'm enough, you know what I mean? Because that's really, that's where it, that lands. And that's the, you know, and that's, but you know, that's also life, that's the trajectory. and I and I love it it's not like I'm not having a great time I'm not not you know it's not like I meant it when I said I'd never feel so alive when I'm that close to death it wasn't you know I wasn't it was all these things these thoughts and feelings as I blur but they all came out because I was like you know under these pressure cooker of feelings and emotions I remember my I, you know, I had this assistant, Lindsay, who became a producing partner because I worked with her so long.

1:53:26And this is all she ever wanted to do, work in this space. She's actually doing that with her husband. And she, but I was like, I'd be screaming, what am I, why am I wearing this T-shirt? I was like trying to control, like the only thing I control was what I was, this T-shirt that I'm wearing. Why am I wearing this T-shirt? What's this, is this the right one? You know, because there was like continuity to the show. I was overly focused on all these little things. You know what I mean? So that is, that's an aspect of my other brain, which is like - That's just your fear, like trying to hold onto something.

1:53:54Something, something, you know, like - In a situation in which you have no control. It's not you, it's me. It's not me, it's you. You know, it's that. Well, you did a great job. You know, maybe before we shut this down, any last thoughts about what you want people to take away from the experience that you had, that you're sharing in the show or just in life from your path, this kind of extraordinary journey that you've been on? I think sometimes just pouring more love on it because loving is the hardest thing. Sometimes the most scary thing, the most vulnerable thing, it's just to keep loving, just keep giving more love to self first so that you can give to others, but just pour more love on it.

1:54:43I think that's a pretty good way to end it. Cool, thanks man. Good job, man. We did it. We did it. Feel all right? Yeah, I'm like, I feel like I've just gone through the ringer and I've like been, I've overexposed myself and I'm gonna just, you know. You're in a supportive, loving environment. Yeah, I know, I feel that. We're here for you. I feel that and thank you so much. Yeah, it was great. I loved it, man. I love getting to know you a little bit. It was really cool. Thanks man. I appreciate it. Well, I love what you're doing and the messaging you're putting out there. And I feel honored that like my little conversation will be up amongst some of those remarkable conversations that I've been listening to.

1:55:21There is an education in your show for everyone to have. Trying to. Mate, come on, it's brilliant. I'm like, that's the school a lot. And you, I mean, I mean it when I said, I'm really grateful for the call because you curate some remarkable thinkers. Thanks man. It's been cool to, I'm like, Like I'm going back now because I had to, you know. I got 800 and some odd number of them for you. I know. Keep you busy for a while. Keep your dyslexic brain. Engaged, exactly. Maybe that's my new school, the school of Rick Roll. All right. We'll come back whenever you feel like sharing a little bit more.

1:55:58Thanks, man. I appreciate you. I think you've rung me dry for a while. Right on. Peace. Bye.

1:56:11That's it for today. Thank you for listening. I truly hope you enjoyed the conversation. To learn more about today's guest, including links and resources related to everything discussed today, visit the episode page at richroll.com where you can find the entire podcast archive, my books, Finding Ultra, Voicing Change and the Plant Power Way, as well as the Plant Power Meal Planner at meals.richroll.com. If you'd like to support the podcast, the easiest and most impactful thing you can do is to subscribe to the show on Apple Podcasts, on Spotify, and on YouTube, and leave a review and or comment.

1:56:50This show just wouldn't be possible without the help of our amazing sponsors who keep this podcast running wild and free. To check out all their amazing offers, head to richroll.com slash sponsors. And sharing the show or your favorite episode with friends or on social media is, of course, awesome and very helpful. And finally, for podcast updates, special offers on books, The Meal Planner, and other subjects, please subscribe to our newsletter, which you can find on the footer of any page at richroll.com. Today's show was produced and engineered by Jason Camillolo. The video edition of the podcast was created by Blake Curtis with assistance by our creative director, Dan Drake.

1:57:31Portraits by Davey Greenberg, graphic and social media assets courtesy of Daniel Solis. And thank you, Georgia Whaley, for copywriting and website management. And of course, our theme music was created by Tyler Pyatt, Trapper Pyatt, and Harry Mathis. Appreciate the love. Love the support. See you back here soon. Peace. Plants. Namaste.

1:58:07Thank you.