World Champion John John Florence On The Mindset of Elite Sport, Walking Away At His Peak & Why True Mastery Begins With Surrender

26:02So like having the wherewithal, the presence of mind to say like, I need to stay in love with this thing. And how do I do that? Yeah. Yeah. And so then I kind of went into this space of where I was actually, I was competing good, but pretty inconsistently. I was having fun doing it. But like I said, inconsistently. And then I got into another phase where I was like, okay, now I really want to take competition a little more seriously. And I mixed in a little bit more structure and a little more mindset stuff, just kind of into pinpointing into the competition side, but allowing my surfing to still be kind of a little bit free in what I was doing.

26:41And the thing that I noticed, which started to become really fun, was like I made the practice pretty structured and pretty rigid on what I was practicing. Mindfulness practice or a mindset practice? Like what was it? Mindset practice and surfing practice. Like certain maneuvers or certain just things on a wave to carry speed through. I got really specific about what I was practicing. And then when I would get to a heat, the whole goal was to be able to let go and know that I had practiced it and just kind of let myself do it. And I found that was like a really good structure for me. It kind of had the mix of both of this like structured practice.

27:19And then I was still able to let go and surf how I want to surf. I mean, that's like a theater actor who rehearses, you know, the script a thousand times so that they can, you know, show up on opening night and be off book and just, you don't have to think about anything. What are some of the tools along the way that you've discovered that have been helpful from like a mindfulness and mindset perspective? so some of like there's a lot of breathing stuff that I like to do um just during before after several different types of breathing I guess and then visualization for me has been a really big one and I remember when I was getting into visualizing at first I was visualizing like myself on a wave doing a turn or surfing and it never really worked for me so then I started visualizing how I wanted to feel before the heat started.

28:14And that was a lot easier. And so for me, like if I feel this just relaxed kind of letting go, like I'm going into the heat like this. And so that's when I do my best. And so that's why I started visualizing. I started visualizing like the walk down from the contest, the getting there, the like, Oh, like the waves look so fun. Like, and just that kind of really relaxed, uh, feel to it. That's when I, things really started clicking for me on the mindset side. I was able to like do that over whatever, a hundred, a thousand times visualizing it. And then when the moment would come, I would just kind of let it happen.

28:48And I'd be entering into these heats, just feeling like so relaxed and so good. And just like, oh, here we go. Like it was. That's super interesting to me. Of course I've heard and I've practiced like visualization, like you visualize every tiny detail of the event and you walk through like the best case scenario, but then you do worst case scenario so that you can be prepared when things don't go your way, et cetera. But that's all like practicalities, right? Like, but the idea of approaching visualization from an emotional perspective, like how do I wanna feel? I think is very cool. I've never heard anyone talk about that.

29:29For surfing, I think it makes a lot of sense because surfing, like I can imagine visualizing specifics of what you're doing and say like track and field or something that's very like you're on a, it's. There's only so many variables. There's only so many variables. Exactly. Where surfing, it's like, you can be like, okay, imagine yourself on a wave. You're like, what kind of wave? It's never going to be the wave that you imagine. Yeah. There's like, there's a million different versions of the same wave that it could happen. And so that's what I was struggling with. I was like, well, I could take off and there could be a ramp or I could take off and I could do this or that.

30:06And so that's when I was like, that doesn't work for me. Just the emotional side. But I think that goes to my core of like who I am when I surf is like this relaxed feeling of like I'm having fun and that's when I surf my best. So just kind of getting myself to that state.

30:29I've been drinking AG1 for 10 years now, a decade, which is so wild. And I bring it up because it affirms a rule that is the secret to every success I've enjoyed. And that rule is the little things are the big things. And by that, I mean the tiny little positive actions that you take consistently daily are the very thing that move the needle the most when it comes to turning who you are today into that better version of tomorrow. And one of those small daily habits just happens to be AG1, a very easy and delicious way to simply sidestep any nutritional gaps that helps personally my energy stay high and my focus keen.

31:10AG1 is one supplement that just works and therefore a foundational part of how I start my day every day. One scoop, some water, that's it. Simple. I don't even think about it. and I know I'm covering my bases in a way that supports my immune health and keeps my gut healthy. And now AG1 has leveled up even more with their AG1 Next Gen. This upgraded formula has been clinically shown to increase healthy gut bacteria by 10x, all for the same price of less than$3 a day. Now clinically backed with an advanced formula, this is the perfect time to try AG1 if you haven't yet. I've been drinking AG1 for years now, as I mentioned, and I'm just so happy to be partnering with them.

31:55So subscribe today to try the next gen of AG1 for less than$3 a day. If you use my link, you'll also get a free AG1 morning person hat. Exciting. A welcome kit and more goodies included. Check out drinkag1.com slash richroll to get started yourself. That's drinkag1.com slash richroll. This podcast is sponsored by Squarespace. Look, everybody's got a story to tell. Experience earned on the field of life. Gifts that are worth sharing, which is something I am consistently encouraging people to do because when we do it, it turns strangers into friends and creates community where before there was none.

32:40To do this effectively, though, you need an online presence. It's just a fact. But even if you're building one from scratch or have an allergy to technology, there's really nothing to fear because Squarespace's all-in-one platform makes the process incredibly simple with everything you need from claiming a domain to building a super pro website, or even when you're ready to scale to a supersonic level, all in one place. The newest feature is their Blueprint AI, which basically creates a custom website for you in just a few steps. You tell it about your industry, your goals, your personality, and it generates content and design recommendations that actually fit who you are.

33:22But here's the thing that really matters, the real juice. They make it ridiculously easy to offer services and get paid. Consultations, coaching, workshops, whatever. You can showcase your offerings, handle scheduling, send invoices, take payments, and it's all integrated because the world needs what you have to offer. But if people can't find you or easily work with you, it doesn't matter how good you are. So head on over to squarespace.com slash richroll for a free trial. And when you're ready to launch, use code richroll to save 10 % off your first purchase of a website or domain.

34:01I had Kai Lenny in here a while back and, you know, he was kind of walking through, walked me through like his fitness regime and like his diet and nutrition and all of his recovery, like how he trains. And it was, I was really impressed with just the professionalism of it all. And, you know, I know that you have a version of that yourself. Yeah. But this is like a new evolution in surfing. Even from, you know, your younger years, there probably weren't that many people who were approaching the sport with that degree of intentionality. No, I definitely think it's in the last like generation that it's really come on to be like, you know, you're training, you're doing the mindfulness stuff.

34:42if you're kind of doing everything you can to win where before it was a little more of a party on the road and then you go surf some heats too. And if you were taking it seriously, you know, maybe you'd be like some weird outlier, right? Like you wouldn't be part of that. Like you wouldn't, you would be kind of ostracized. Yeah, well like Kelly Slater, you know, he's like, he was doing everything differently and he was just winning everything and on top and on top's lonely. And so like, he was kind of this outlier, I feel like of what was happening. And then, you know, you have like a Mick Fanning come in and he starts taking things really seriously also and he starts winning.

35:17And then now today, like every kid is doing everything they can on the tour to win. It's fun though because it's made the whole level of everything go way up. So what is a day in the life when you're super focused? Not now because you're just sailing, like, you know, like spending time with your family. A day in a life when I'm super focused is relatively structured. So if I'm getting ready for an event, it's, so this, I'll just kind of take into this last year is like, I had a trainer, a nutritionist, meal plans, kind of schedules of surfing somewhat of like, hey, tomorrow I want to work on these boards, this boards and kind of keeping the session somewhat short.

36:03And are you making those decisions or do you have a coach? Like, how does it work? I have a coach, but I'm definitely making decisions on how it works for me. And then on top of that, just recovery stuff. So it's definitely like a structured, but kind of like a loose structure almost on depending on waves and how I'm feeling. If I wake up and I'm like, I don't feel like I'm not feeling good today, then, you know, I'll be like, okay, my body's saying I need to rest. I'll rest more. I just know my, for myself, like I will overwork rather than underwork. And so I know I'm not lazy. So if I need a day of rest, I know I'm not being lazy because I tend to do the opposite.

36:43If I don't set like a point for myself to come in, my sessions will go from an hour to four hours. I'll still be in the water going, okay, I'm gonna get one more. I think I'll get it on this next one. And then you get injured and you wonder why. Yeah. What is the out of the ocean physical training regimen? What does that look like? So for me, my out of the ocean regimen has changed so much over the years, just through injuries and figuring out what works for me. This last year I did, I worked with a guy named Chris Prosser from Australia and he does kind of like a mix of DNS stuff mixed with movement and a lot of body weight stuff.

37:20And so. That's dynamic neuromuscular stimulation. What does that stand for? I think so. Yeah, something like that. Stabilization. Yeah, it's based on like foundational movements of like the human body from when we're like a baby to, you know, where we are now. And so I worked a lot doing that and I found that was the best for, that felt the best on my knees, that felt the best on my back, like everything. And I didn't add any extra load because I'm pretty physical outside of the water. I love riding my bike. I love surfing. I love downwind foiling. I love all these different things and it's hard to keep me out of the water.

37:57And so instead of like, like limiting myself too much on those, like I definitely limited my sessions a little bit, but I also like, um, Kelly Stewart was one that was helped me. He was like, Hey, let's not stop everything you're doing. Let's just do everything you need to do in order to keep doing what you're doing. And so it's like eating more rest, more sleep, recovery stuff, more movement stuff. Um, and I did a lot of Kelly's movement stuff as well. And so it was this balance of like kind of limiting my sessions a little bit and then, but then also like adding in. So I'm still enjoying it and having fun so that I can keep doing what I wanna do.

38:36And is it basically like the entire day is devoted to training in one form or another, whether it's like recovery, nutrition, training. I know you've got like a hyperbaric chamber and you have a float tank and you've got like the cold plant. You got like all the toys. I have everything you can imagine. It's just kind of like one thing to the next. Yeah, so I kind of would, in my mind, I would set up a loose schedule of like, okay, I wanna try to do hyperbaric every day or every other day for the next two months while I'm home. I wanna try to do the float tank three times a week. I wanna do, and I wanna work on these things while I'm in the float tank.

39:15Like what? Like what are you working on when you're in the float tank? When I'm in the float tank, I do a lot of like, uh like the first bit of it's like uh kind of relaxing kind of like letting the thoughts work go through because you end up sorry it says everything's dark and you start thinking a lot and so I try to get through that and just breathing and just relaxing relaxing and just thinking of myself just like relaxing every muscle and then from there once I kind of feel a little more clear I'll go into visualization stuff and that's where I start to visualize like an event and like I said the kind of leading up to it and how I want to feel um and I feel like I get a lot out of that um and so I did that quite a bit in there is that in addition to a formal meditation practice or is that your sort of some sort of your version of a meditation uh it's just part of it like so last year I probably meditated every single morning um it'd be the first thing I do when I wake up I'd wake up and even if I'm just still in bed I'd just sit there and I would kind of start like a, some sort of 20 minute thing before I get up.

40:19I found for me that worked the best because I would just, I would do it. And so if I got up and got moving and started surfing and stuff, it's hard for, it's hard to stop. If you don't do it right away. Yeah, I know that well. So yeah, I found a good mixture of that. Like I would do it in the mornings and then when I was at home, I would use the float tank. Uh-huh, yeah. and now that you're you're on this sort of sabbatical I mean you're still surfing all the time yeah but you're just not training training no but I like I said like I'm pretty physical like with what I do in my day life I love like getting to that point at the end of the day where like I can't move anymore I'm so tired like pushing myself to that point so I still do a lot of the stuff I would do like when I'm at home I ride my bike every day I surf I do movement stuff I still do a lot of it just because I wanna feel good and I wanna feel like I can wake up and serve the best I can.

41:16Has it been helpful to see like Kelly Slater kind of step back and dip back in and have this incredible longevity in his career? Does that like instill a little bit more confidence in you to that, yeah, I can take this break and come back and I have a long career ahead of me still? Yeah, I think just seeing him win events at 50 years old was like, for me, was just like, I want to be able to do that. Even if I choose not to compete at that point, I would love to be able to still be surfing like that. You know, I love surfing and pushing myself. So it's, it's been more of an inspiration than anything to be like, Oh, I want to, I want to do everything I'm doing during competition.

41:59Cause I just feel better in that way. I think clear, I surf better, everything. And so, but just maybe in a slightly more family-oriented way, you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I'm still doing a lot of it, but it's just a little bit different. What do people not understand about the behind the scenes of kind of keeping this machine running? Like with who you are and at the level that you're at, you have all these relationships with brands and sponsors. There's duties that, you know, you have to fulfill for them. You have to be a content creator. You have to be kind of an online, You have to be online in a certain way.

42:40And you're also like an entrepreneur. You've got your Florence brand. And, you know, that's a lot. Like, do you have a team of people that help you manage that? Like, what is the kind of daily, you know, kind of routine around just like the business side of being John John? Yeah, the business side for me has become bigger than I ever kind of thought it would be, I guess. I think when I was growing up, you'd just think like, oh, just surf. and I get a sponsorship and I go to surf events and I make little movies and stuff. But now it's just cool where I feel like I've really enjoyed where my life has kind of gone and I've been able to start my own brand and get to learn the back end of the business of that and growing that as well.

43:25Growing a brand has been one of the most fun things that I feel like I've done in my career. And now I have my brothers on board with me and the product side of it is something that I've just been so interested in learning more about materials and just different things that we can do to make our life better and what we're doing in and around the water. I never even thought about how much I would enjoy that. That's interesting. And it looks like it's going really well. Yeah, it's been going really well. And like the products are like very like dialed and high end. Yeah, it just - Like you're not screwing around.

44:00No, we're not screwing around. But like you said, on the bag end, it takes a lot of work. And I think I'm still figuring out what the balance of that is. And now we have a one-year-old. And so I'm like, okay, family life, okay, that takes up 80 % of the time. And then you have this other 10%. There's no more time anymore. There's no more time just sitting there going like, oh, I'm bored right now. What am I going to do? But it focuses you. It focuses me for sure. Yeah. How do you think about balance? I feel like balance for me is just, it's like dynamic. It's always moving. It's always something that's flowing and changing.

44:35And I kind of feel like I'm always trying to figure out what the right balance is. And I don't know, kind of like knobs, you know, you're like dialing one thing up, dialing one thing down, seeing how it feels. Okay, no, that went a little bit too much that direction. Okay, let's go back this direction a little bit and figuring out what the right kind of path is for it. I feel like I've done that through my competing too, with training and everything. It's just kind of thinking of it like knobs, like, okay. And being okay if something doesn't feel right for a week, you know, and then being like, okay, that was a weird week.

45:07Let's go back the other way a little bit. Yeah. Not all the knobs are gonna be perfectly aligned on any given day. I think it puts a lot of pressure on people, this notion that you're supposed to be in balance all the time. And certainly if you're going to, you know, excel at the highest level at something, your life is fundamentally by definition going to be out of balance. Like you're not achieving these goals without it being out of balance. but I think of it as like a pendulum that's swinging. Totally. And I think that's where I like, I've learned to like try to be okay with like there being a bad week, you know?

45:36Like there's gonna be bad weeks. There's gonna be bad days. And you're like, okay, that was, how did I like that? Was that bad because of this? Or was that bad because that actually didn't make me feel good at who I am or follow my values. And so kind of following that as my guide, I guess, has been kind of what I've been learning to do. And do you have dudes in your life that like check you, you know, like, hey bro, like you're a little off here, like maybe reel it in or, you know, like who give you the hard feedback and that you trust. My family is probably the closest to that. Your brothers?

46:10Yeah, not out afraid of saying like, that was weird. Like, what are you doing there? Like, and I'm like, oh, you're right. That doesn't feel like me. That didn't feel right. I'm glad you said something. I'm curious around your relationship with your mom. Like she seems like a pretty large figure in your life. Definitely, yeah. My mom's been a huge figure in my life, just raising us on the North Shore. And like, we didn't have tons of money by any means. So like figuring out how to get us to go like to all these amazing places in the world when we were young and going to Bali for three months and then picking up all our stuff and going to Europe for three months.

46:49And just kind of felt like that was a huge part of like single mom with three kids. Yeah. Like how do you manage that? We were going to Bali when we were really young and my brother was like four, had broken leg with a cast up to his hip. My mom's pushing him on the cart and then me and my other brother are six and eight and we're just terrorizing. And I have my one-year-old now and I'm like, I don't know how you did that. So what was it? Like what was motivating her? Like what was her commitment? I think my mom just loves being in and around the ocean, you know? I think she loves surfing. She loves the beach and she wanted to share that with us.

47:30And so, yeah, she just took us on the adventures with her. And she's still around, right? Yeah, my mom surfs every day. She loves skateboarding. She goes to the skate park every day and she still paddles out to Pipeline on her longboard. And so it's pretty fun to see that. Is the North Shore basically the same as it was when you were a kid and you're just running around barefoot, you know, to school and to surfing. And I mean, it's sort of like free range childhood. Definitely. I mean, it's changed a little bit for sure, but it's still pretty much the same. It's a super small community. The elementary school I went to is still there.

48:07The kids are still going to school and going to the beach after, like with the bike path that runs up and down and the kids are riding their bikes to go surf every day. And so it's pretty much the same as when I grew up. That kind of experience is, you know i grew i grew up in the 70s like that it was sort of normal you know but like you see that as like quickly disappearing from most modern society and and you know hawaii is pretty unique in that regard yeah it's a really special place just because of i mean if you've ever been there it's a like i said a really small community we have one bike path that runs across the whole thing or the highway that runs across it and then the elementary school there and pipelines across the street, which for surfing is like the, one of the epicenters of surfing, I feel like.

48:51And so for me growing up there and being a surfer and getting to watch my idols win world championships there, it was pretty incredible. And so, yeah, it's like - It's sort of like Bill Gates, like growing up proximate to some kind of supercomputer at the right time, you know, like all of the, you know, like all of the elements were there, You know, it was like this perfect cocktail to like create you. I mean, you had this mom who was enthusiastic about surfing. You literally live, you know, on the beach where the greatest waves in the world and all the greatest surfers were. You start surfing when you're like six months old, she's taking you out and you're surfing on your own at five.

49:27Yeah, so yeah, it was definitely like a good mixture of, like a good chain of events to get me where I am today. Of course you want your son to be a surfer, right? But like, to my experience, like the universe sometimes wires it. Like, what if he's like, I don't like the beach? To be honest, like, I don't care. Well, I would really love if he likes being in the ocean because I think we'll be able to share a lot of moments like that. I don't think he really has a choice though, right? Yeah, I don't think he has a choice. We're literally living on the water right now. Yeah. In similar ways and in different ways, like you're a waterman in the way that Kai Lenny is.

50:07Like you love the water. and you like doing all different kinds of things in addition to surfing, but a little bit different from Kai in that like sailing is your big thing. So talk to me about the whole sailing thing. Yeah, so like just in and around the ocean, I love doing everything. Like Kai, like I'm inspired by Kai all the time. He does a million different things and he does them all really well. So for me, I like sailing a lot for some, whatever reason, like, I don't know, 10 or 15, 10 or 12 years ago, I got on like a little boat with my friend in front of our house. And I was like, this is pretty cool.

50:42And we like went to this, to Waimea Bay, which is down the beach. And I was like, wow, we sailed down here. That was pretty fun. And then I was like, I'm going to get my own little boat. And then we were just like up and down the North Shore. And then eventually I was like, I want to be able to go to the other islands. And it just kind of became this like, it like opened up my whole world of this like self-adventure I felt like. And then mixed in with being able to like be on the ocean and read the ocean in a whole different and new way. Like the open ocean is so different from like being by the reefs.

51:13You know, the waves do different things. The swells look different. And I just really enjoyed to kind of, and I'm still enjoying like learning that side of it. And you've done some pretty big sails, right? Like, didn't you sail from Hawaii to Fiji? And you did this New Zealand sail recently? Yeah, we sailed from a couple of years ago, we did Hawaii to Fiji and that was 3000 miles of just and just like there's not much between but that was really cool and then um you know that trip was especially cool because it's so long um you can't actually see the weather forecast for the second half you know of the trip and so you're looking at the weather forecast for the leaving pretty much and you're like okay it looks like a good time to leave i have no idea what's going to happen on the second half and then it turns into these just like you're just looking of the weather where you are as you're going and trying to avoid like any systems or anything like that where we just did a trip from New Zealand to Fiji and it was actually the weather was a lot scarier, a lot more unstable than that trip was.

52:12But you can kind of get an idea of what the trip is going to be like the whole trip before you leave. You know, you're not guessing what the second half is going to be like. Like it's a six day trip and the weather forecast is relatively good for the six days. So it was just different, but definitely the weather was. But when you're like out there and you just can't see land and you're, I mean, no one's coming to save you. Like there's a high degree of like vulnerability. Yeah. This last trip was the first time I've been, I was really like, I had a couple of nights where I was like really scared.

52:47The most scared I've been on the boat probably just with these moments of like, there's a current with 30 to 40 knot winds and it just makes these really steep waves that are breaking and they're really close together. And the boat is just getting hit and you're in the middle of the night and you're sailing and you don't see the waves. You just hear them break. And then they hit the boat and you're just like, it's that scary sinking feeling of like, Oh, what's the next one I'm going to do? How many more of these do I have to deal with until it gets light out? Like, uh, so for me, like I'm still learning a lot and, um, I wouldn't say I'm like nearly as experienced as a lot of the captains or boat captains in the world.

53:25But so that was a moment for me. I was like, whoa, this is, this is scary. I don't, I don't know what's going to happen here. And what is the perspective that you glean from that? Like, what does it give you? Like, cause it's, it's just not an experience that that many people have. The perspective, I guess, was just like going through the experience. It's, it was pretty interesting how relative things are like so before that trip like 20 to 30 knots feels like a lot of wind you know and I'm like whoa this is windy this is like I try to avoid that and then after this trip it was blowing like I felt like we I mean just since we left New Zealand we saw 50 knots a couple times we saw 30 to 40 knots of wind and then it makes that 20 to 30 knots feel really calm and you're like oh this is pretty easy you know and so it's pretty interesting when you like expose yourself to these like more extreme situations, how the situations that you thought were extreme before aren't as bad anymore and they feel much more manageable.

54:25And I feel like that's kind of with life in general, like surfing, big waves, and then you go to a little bit smaller and you're like, oh, I was in that situation and now this situation feels pretty manageable. Yeah. Nobody just drops in on an 80 foot wave if they're working up to it so gradually, you know, over a long period of time. It seems like there's so much energy in surfing around the big waves, right? And that 100-foot wave, like, you know, it's like, if you're not surfing the big waves, like, you're nowheresville, right? Like, does that hold an allure for you? Or is that just, that's not for me?

55:00Like, I mean, I've heard you talk about, like, how much you love surfing small waves. Yeah, no, I love surfing big waves. I think growing up in Hawaii, just you're kind of like that experience thing. Like, you just are naturally, like, put into those situations where you're experiencing it and so it becomes kind of like part of your surfing kind of circle my brother is that's all he does he chases big waves and so for me it's not something I'm like oh I want to go get the biggest wave ever at Nazarene in Portugal or anything like that like I just like every once in a while going and having that experience whether it's in Maui or it's in on Oahu it's like being able to experience those sessions with your friends there's this feeling of like after the day finishes that you're like it's like this like come down of the session and you're like that was like that was intense and that was fun like this whole huge adrenaline build up and um it's just it's amazing being out there with waves when the waves are that big.

56:00Like you come over a wave before a set and you just see the next one and how much water and how big it is. And that sinking feeling you get of just like, I don't want to be here. It doesn't matter how many videos I watch or, you know, I can watch a hundred foot wave and look at these Nazare waves and think that I know what that's like, but I know like there's just no way that I can even come close to grasping what it must be like when you're actually out there, or you're being towed in? Nazare, I haven't served Nazare big. So that I can't say. But like just from my experiences at home and just, we do a lot of paddling.

56:37We try to paddle big waves a lot. And so that in itself is just scary because you always get put in situations where like you'll paddle for the first wave and then you'll miss it and you'll turn around and you're like, I don't even wanna know what's behind me right now. And you turn around and the next one's breaking and you're like, okay, I'm good. This is gonna be okay. Everything's good. That's amazing. Have you had any close calls with sharks or some gnarly, scary wipeouts? Wipeouts, I've had a couple. Well, like nothing that I've been like really close to death. I've had, you know, moments where I've been like, ooh, that was, could have been bad.

57:19But a lot where I've seen friends that are really close to us and been in the water when friends are unconscious and being resuscitated on the beach. And I think when you're that close to it and you see it happen that much, it definitely builds this little like internal fear and causes you to be a little more calculated with what you're doing. But it's just crazy because it could happen at any point. it happens to the best of us and surfing's unpredictable. So yeah. But it connects you with your own mortality in a way that I think is helpful as a life lesson. Oh, it definitely does. It definitely makes you realize.

57:53And I've noticed even like since I've had my son, like I kind of second guess things sometimes now when I'm in the water and I'm like, gone to like another level more calculated of like, I'm gonna wait for a good wave. I'm not gonna force myself on a weird one that I don't know what it's gonna do. do you think that that if and when you return to competitive surfing that that little thing in the back of your head of having a son could interfere with performance no because i've kind of already gone through like gone through a half of the year last year you know we had our tahiti event after my son like i my son was born and then i went to tahiti eight days later like it was right then and we had a pretty good size swell for that and i kind of was thinking about it but then And it's crazy, like just from competing for so long, the heat starts and I just click into this like mode where I'm just like, I'm winning, I'm gonna win.

58:44I'm gonna try to win, whatever it takes. Yeah, I don't really care about winning and this shouldn't really be a competition, but I'm definitely gonna win. Yeah, exactly, that's what it is. Like you're like, before you're like, oh, like this is cool, like I'm here. And then the horn rings and then you're just like, yeah. Have you watched that HBO comedy, The Studio? You seen this TV show? No, I haven't watched it. There's a really funny episode where they're at like the Golden Globes and Zoe Kravitz is like up for an award. And then all the press, she's like, I don't understand why art has to compete with each other.

59:20I'm just happy to be here. She's putting on a whole show about like how it doesn't matter. And I haven't prepared a speech and like, I'm not gonna win anyway. And then behind the scenes, she's like, oh, I'm definitely winning. Like I've been campaigning for this. So there's no way I'm not gonna win. It's like, it's that same thing in a nutshell. It's totally that same thing. Yeah, it's just like, there's something just in us that I feel like is competitive. And when you're competing, you just click in and you're like, I'm gonna win. Like, that's what I'm here for. What are some of the other lessons that you've learned from surfing, being in the ocean that you think are applicable to life?

59:55Like, I think there's so much wisdom in the kind of relationship that you have to have to not just sport, but like you're dealing with the ocean, you know, the unpredictability of it. Like how do you manage something that's unmanageable and how that spills over into other aspects of your life? For me, a lot of it has come from the competitive side. Like I said, like I feel like there's so many, it's so many like emotional moments in such a short amount of time. And over time I've built up these like tools and stuff. And I've been able to like start seeing like, whoa, these apply to my whole life in a sense.

1:00:30Like I can use these anywhere I am. Like when I was talking about when I was scared on the boat, like I all of a sudden I was like, oh my gosh, I've been nervous. I've been under pressure like this before. Like I'm going to do this breathing and I'm going to kind of like relax into this mode. And then I'm able to like click into a gear where I'm like, oh, I can make clear decisions on what we're doing now. And so it's been pretty amazing for me to like be able to compete and then learn all this stuff in this like compressed format and then be able to take it to the rest of my life, whether it's business or being on a podcast and being like overly nervous of talking in front of people.

1:01:06But nothing is made better by, you know, nerves and anxiety, right? Like you're gonna make your best decisions when you're present and you're calm. And now you have these tools that allow you to inhabit that more, you know, fluidly and frequently. Yeah, and that's all come from my like competing and being in the ocean and the unpredictability of the ocean within competing where you're being like judged and scored and have to perform your best, but perform your best on something you don't know if it's going to come or not. And so, and being okay with that. So I think I've learned a lot in that sense.

1:01:39Yeah. Adaptability. Yeah. You can't control the ocean. You can't control what the press is going to say about you. you can't control what the competitors are gonna say or what the next wave is going to be. Exactly. And like my career has been, I've had a lot of injuries back to back to back. And expectations and attachments. Yeah. You know, like you're expected to be this person. You probably put a lot of pressure on yourself. Things don't always work out. Like how do you move forward? And you go through, and like over time I've just learned that like I'll go into these deep kind of hard places where I'm just like, oh, like I feel like I'm not getting out of this hole.

1:02:16Like, I mean, like in this deep hole of like, I can't compete. I'm not doing what I want to do. I don't want to be here. I don't want to be doing this. And then, but just realizing that like, it's just, it's like, it just, not to be a cliche, but it comes in waves, you know, like it, it just is like, you go, you go to this dark place and then you kind of come through it and then you come out of it and you're like, okay, I see that I went through that. And what, if that happens again, I'll go through it again. And I know it won't be forever, you know? What would you tell that young 13, 15 year old John John?

1:02:51Like, what do you wish he knew that you now know? Don't fight it, just enjoy it. Like, I guess just let go to the process of it because what's gonna happen is gonna happen. And I don't know, like it's hard because I wouldn't wanna change anything that's happened. You know, everything I feel like that has happened to me or everything that I've gone through has been because it's been this learning. It's like a life learning lesson of, because I didn't know this, I was able to learn this. And so I don't think I would wanna know everything that I know now because it wouldn't have been as fun, I guess.

1:03:26Yeah, I mean, that's a super healthy way to look at it. Of course, you wouldn't be the person that you are had you not gone. You have to go through those trials and tribulations to learn these lessons. This is what we're here to do. Yeah, exactly. You go through these darker moments, these harder moments and whatever it is. And then you learn so much from that. Like I went through back-to-back ACL surgeries, um, one after another, like, and you know, the first one happened when I was on one of the best runs of my career. Like I had one, two events, got a second, like, and I was like so far in the lead going for my third world title at the time.

1:03:59And then I tore my ACL and had, had to go for an ACL reconstruction. Never had surgery before it done anything like that. and just, I mean, the surgeries are not fun. They're hard to recover from, you know? And so going through that made me realize like, oh, like, I'm kind of on this like, yeah, like I'm competing and trying to be my best for sure. But I'm also, it's like the bigger picture of like my life, I feel like has been on the mental side of it on this like, it doesn't matter if I'm competing or if I'm recovering from an injury or if I'm trying to be a dad or whatever I'm doing. I think the process is still the same and the things that I'm trying to learn are still the same.

1:04:39So it doesn't matter what I'm doing. It's just, I'm still trying to accomplish the same things within my mind, if that makes sense. But writ large, it's basically like, how do I show up as the best version of John John, you know, in the moment to be the most present and available and, you know, that you possibly can for whatever you're experiencing. So it's just pivoting from one thing to the next, like, oh, I'm all into competing now. Now I'm gonna go all into recovering and learning how to heal myself and what are the best things to heal myself and how can I be the best healer that I can be.

1:05:16This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. And today I wanna help you better by talking about workplace stress, which is something that is real and also something that's getting worse. In fact, 61 % of people globally are dealing with higher than normal stress levels, which, when you understand the very real connection between chronically elevated stress levels and chronic lifestyle disease, is concerning. While we can't walk away from our jobs this summer, we can change our relationship with what we do, because while a vacation is great, that is not a long-term solution. A long-term solution requires we take steps towards reducing the negative emotions that we associate with our occupation.

1:05:59And those steps include learning how to navigate daily challenges, set boundaries, develop coping skills, all of which are very difficult. I say this from personal experience to do alone, which is where therapy comes in. I'm a huge advocate for therapy. I have been for years. And this is something that really isn't just for crisis moments. It's mental maintenance, learning tools to handle whatever the workday throws at you. And BetterHelp really has done a great job of making this accessible. Over 30 ,000 therapists or 5 million people worldwide, 4.9 out of 5 stars from 1.7 million reviews. As the largest online therapy provider in the world, BetterHelp offers access to a diverse range of mental health professionals with various areas of expertise.

1:06:53Unwind from work with BetterHelp. All of you can get 10 % off your first month at betterhelp.com slash richroll. That's betterhelp, H-E-L-P dot com slash richroll. If there's one thing, one thing that I believe in, it is the power of movement, which is why I've proudly partnered with On since 2023. They're a premium sportswear brand. And what really sets them apart is their relentless dedication to innovation and performance and truly supporting athletes at every level. So last summer, I had the unique honor to join ON in Paris to support their Olympic athletes and host a few panels at the ON Labs Paris.

1:07:39And I got to spend time with the engineers responsible for creating ON's next generation gear. And what I walked away with is a real appreciation for the level of attention and intention and innovation that ON puts into every tiny detail of every single thing they create, from materials to construction to sustainability. And I just can't overestimate how inspiring this was to experience firsthand. And what I can tell you, based on my personal experience and that of many On athletes, some of the world's best, is that when you wear their gear, you can feel the difference. It's remarkably lightweight, yet also tough enough to handle whatever your training throws at it.

1:08:24And there's that balance between performance and comfort that is rare. And it's what makes On gear so versatile, whether you're deep in a training cycle or just moving through your day. So head on over to on.com slash richroll to explore the latest innovations in performance wear. And don't forget to sign up for the newsletter to claim a 10 % discount.

1:08:51Along the way, whether it's like recovery, healing, mindset, mindfulness, breath work, like who have been your influences? Like have there been books or people? You mentioned Kelly Starrett, shout out Kelly. he's been helpful to me in my recovery from back surgery. You know, we both know like what a gem of a human being that guy is, but who are some of the other people that you've turned to or the practices that you've adopted that have been most helpful? There's been a bunch of people that I've been able to work with. Like, you know, I mentioned Chris Prosser from Australia. Like he was pretty big in helping me like learn a lot about myself last year.

1:09:29And then Tim Brown, he's actually here. He's a chiropractor, does a lot of really good work and just healing and stuff. the list goes on. Mike Gervais was another one that - Yeah, I was like, I was wondering, you guys must know each other, right? Like that guy's gotta be your sensei. Yeah, yeah. You know, you guys are made for each other. Yeah, so Mike - I love that guy. Yeah, he's amazing at what he does and he kind of helped me get on this, like almost like clarifying my thoughts on the competitive side of things and like putting a structure to it almost to be able to like, okay, this isn't, like I'm not working on something random here.

1:10:01This is like something that I can like build and perfect, not perfect, but like just build on, you know? He has so much clarity and his ability to kind of communicate these ideas that are hard to get your head around, to get your mind right. I mean, he's incredibly gifted at that. And he's a surfer. Yeah, exactly. And so he understands it and he gets it. And so there's just been a ton of people like that that I've been able to work with through my career and just all different sorts of things, whether it's physical recovery, mental recovery, whatever it is and learn a lot from it and then take it and go do my own thing with it and remold it into my own thing and be like, okay, now this works for me, you know?

1:10:42So if I was Mike Gervais, I would ask you like, what is mastery look like for you? Like, how would you define mastery? I don't think, yeah. Do you think in that context? I kind of do, but I kind of don't. Like, I don't think there's, you can ever really become a master of anything. I feel like it's just endless. And I feel like mastery for me is like, I'm really into the internal thinking in the mind, you know? Because I feel like once you get a handle on that, you'll never have it perfectly, but you'll be able to apply it to anything that you do. And so I think that's mastery within itself is just being able to get a handle on your internal self.

1:11:21Mastering the self is the key to mastering anything else. Anything you apply yourself to. Well, you're not gonna master anything if you're not a master of your own mind. Exactly. Yeah. If you're just kind of completely acting at random, then I feel like the things you do are going to be at random. How do you define success? Has that evolved over time? Yeah, definitely. Like it's funny when I was competing and going for my first world title, I was like, okay, world title, that's it. That's what I want. That's like the, once I do that, that's, I've done it, you know, like I'll feel good. And then it's, it's just the craziest thing.

1:11:59Cause you hear it from other athletes and stuff. They accomplish these huge goals, but when you like accomplish with that and then I finished and you wake up the next day and everything resets. You're like, why am I the same guy? You're like, I'm the same. Nothing's changed. Like, and so you kind of just keep going on about your day. And that actually was like pretty hard for me. Cause I was like, I just chased this whole life thing, thinking that this would like I guess like solve all my issues and then you win and then you finish it and you're like everything's exactly the same okay now how do I cope with that and so like figuring out how to cope with that and then like come back again and might be like okay now why am I competing what's the point you know because you could go into that mode of just like I accomplished it I'm done like there's no there's no reason for me to do this anymore and I think that's where I really started getting into that mode of like oh no I'm kind of going on this bigger picture longer full life.

1:12:51It'll take my whole life and I'll probably never accomplish like really getting to know myself and master myself and the decisions that I make. So success then is a commitment to self-mastery. Yeah, I guess so. Yeah, commitment. I guess it's a commitment. I think that's a really good way of saying it. What's really funny is every single person who's achieved some, you know, audacious goal has the same story. Like, you know, this is like the, cause you have to be sort of insane, you know, to chase these things and to achieve them and, and driven in part by thinking that this is going to fix whatever broken part you have, you know what I mean?

1:13:29And every single person will say, and then I did it. And then I was the same guy and it was so disappointing. And I was like, I don't, you could listen to a thousand versions of that story on a thousand podcasts and read a million books, but, but we all sort of think that we're going to be the exception. Like, yeah, but not for me. Like you don't understand it's going to be different because like this really will fix me or then. But it sounds like where the maturity is and what you learned was you learned from that and thought, well, winning a second one isn't gonna fix it. Like a lot of people just get on that hedonic treadmill.

1:14:02Like, oh, well, it didn't fix me, but that's because there's this other thing. Like when I get that and it's your whole life, you know, but to like learn at a young age, like that's not the solution. It's an inside job. and there's another focus of my attention and energy that's going to be required if I want to solve that dilemma. Yeah, and I think that's where it really helps me through like, or bring up the injuries because I just felt like that was such a big part of my road to this last world championship. But like, it allowed me to go into those and be like, okay, like I said before, I'm just kind of changing what I'm doing, but I'm still going after my same life goal, and it allowed me to do that really well.

1:14:41And then I healed and then I'm like, okay now I'm competing again and I'm gonna put my mindset back into this again and you're always building this one thing no matter what you're doing in your life right process over outcome yeah yeah well it's good that you love surfing yeah right yeah it makes the process part a lot easier yeah it does you know has there been any thought of thinking like do I need to return to WSL and do the competitive thing? Like you could go and be a Kai Lenny type guy who's like, I don't, or like a layer, like they don't do competitions. Like they have a life around surfing and they can support themselves and, you know, have these beautiful lives, but they've opted out of that paradigm.

1:15:24Yeah, I definitely see that, you know, and I really love like sailing and exploration. I think that's probably where I would go if I wasn't good to go back to competing. I'll just continue like going and trying to surf new waves and go try to go around the world or something. But there's such a big part of me that loves the competitive side because of that, like, just you learn so much so quickly about yourself, I feel like. And, and I really, really enjoy that. And I still am deeply competitive at heart. Yeah. So are you going to race your boat also, or you just want to use it for adventures or do you feel like you have to get into that world?

1:16:02I don't feel like I have to get into racing. I feel like the learning of like exploring and going to these really remote places is enough of a challenge. It's, yeah, there's just so much to learn from it. It feels kind of endless. But, and that's what I'm enjoying right now. But that's, I really do. I go year by year. I'm like, this year, this is what I'm doing. Next year, I might be doing the same thing, but I also might be doing something completely different. It is unusual for surfers to be sailing. like you hear about foiling and all these different other kinds of like, you know, like paddling and all that, but like, it doesn't seem like there's that many who are committed to sailing like at a, at a higher level.

1:16:42Yeah. I think there was an era like early on, earlier in surfing, you know, with Hobie Alter and Joey Cabell and these earlier guys, these guys that were amazing surfers and what they were doing, but they were also building their own boats and sailing from Hawaii to Tahiti and doing all these other things. Like it's, so I really like am inspired by that like generation of just these like complete watermen and no matter what they were doing like it didn't have to be coastal didn't have to be around only waves like it was just the ocean in general and so and the outdoors like a lot of them did so much stuff in the mountains and it just they weren't like tied to like one category of it do you are Are you a fan of, is it World Cup sailing?

1:17:26Like with those super yachts and what is that called again? America's Cup. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I'm a fan of it. Like Oracle and like these like crazy, is it like the Rolex series or something like that? Like those insane boats. It's like the Formula One of sailing. Yeah, I'm a fan of it. Like the guys that do it are very athletic and very like that mental focus is there, you know? And so I have a few friends that do it. And so they kind of think on those same wavelengths, I feel like. And then on the other side is the technical side of it. The things that they're building to make these boats go, like, I mean, those boats are, it can be 10 knots, 10 miles an hour of wind and they're doing 45 miles an hour.

1:18:07So that's like pretty crazy to be able to create something that's just going that quickly off the wind. Just from an engineering perspective. Just from an engineering perspective. Like, yeah, the engineering part of that for me is really interesting. That's an expensive world. Boats, man. Yeah, like, I don't know. What kind of boat is your boat? I have a gunboat 48, it's called. It's a catamaran. It's 48 feet and it's super lightweight, carbon, everything, strong and fast. It's a lot of fun to sail. And to be able to take it and surf weird places that no one has ever surfed before, probably, right?

1:18:45Yeah. Is that part of the allure? That's definitely part of the allure. Or like, just like, even it could be a one foot wave this big or a 10 foot wave. It all feels like pretty similar. Like you come around the corner and like, look at that little wave. Like, I wonder if someone surfed that. I'm going to go surf it. So that's a pretty fun feeling. What is your forecast for the next generation of surfers? The young crop that's coming up right now. You talked about the professional level that athletes are kind of unanimously taking right now. Like what can we expect to see like a bump in performance?

1:19:20That's a hard one to say. Like as for the performance side of things, I don't really know where surfing will go. I think it's at such a hard level. It's hard to think of what's gonna happen. The wave pools are becoming a pretty big thing. And so there's a lot of tricks being done in that. Right, because you can just train consistently. Consistently on the same exact thing every time, which is so new to surfing. So it's hard to say what that will look like in 10 or 15 years. and more and more of those are cropping up right yeah it'd be more ubiquitous and just imagine some kid who was your age when you first started surfing but they're like in that thing every single day with just you know being able to perfect moves on the exact same wave so and who knows how big the how big the waves get to in those pools and how good they get in the future and maybe all the events end up being run in those pools and i think that would shift surfing so much to like a way more performance orientated thing where it's like, it goes back to that visualization thing where you're like, you can actually like visualize the same thing over and over again and work on something.

1:20:23And you know, probably go like in the direction of like snowboarding, I guess it seems like, like with more spins and flips and things like that. And then on the other side, I think that people are gonna just keep taking it more and more seriously. And yeah, I don't know, maybe at some point everyone has like a physical therapist. They have a whole team with them, you know, like everyone's going to every event right now. I think there's only a few guys that travel with like a full team, but like at some point everyone will have their own team and it becomes this like performance level that's like across the board up here.

1:20:57What was your experience surfing in the Olympics? So two-time Olympian, Tokyo and Paris. Was that different from WSL? yeah it's definitely different just because there's a lot of hype around the olympics and you do a lot of talking before and like and so like it's like this slow pressure build up to it and then the realization that you only have uh one chance at it you know and i think like it was funny when i went to tokyo it was like during covid so it was a really weird olympics there was like not a lot going on you'd go down and you'd surf your heat there's no one around and then you'd come in and that it was funny because that one I had built it up in my head.

1:21:39I'm like, this is the Olympics. And everyone's like telling me, oh, I had some friends that had done the Olympics. They're like, Hey, it's, it's a big deal. Like, don't, don't discount that, that it is a big deal and don't go into it thinking like it's smaller than it is. And so I went into it and then I was like, what are they talking about? Like, like no one's around. This feels like a normal event. Like, and so when I left like that, that Olympics, I kind of was like, I wished I would have thought more like, no, this is like a normal surf contest. Like, and so when I went into the next one, I was kind of like in the more in that mindset, like I'm going to treat it like a normal event, how it approach a normal event, everything.

1:22:15The thing I didn't realize that was going to be so different was the, you're, you're very controlled on the lead up to the heat. And so you, like, so you have to sit on a certain boat with your coach and you get the certain amount of time to watch. And then at a certain time, because it's broadcasted, everything has to happen at a certain time. So then at a specific time, you have to go to this next boat and then you're standing there with your jersey with the other competitor for five minutes or something. And then you're sitting there for five minutes and then the heat before ends and you have 45 seconds to get in the water and go.

1:22:53And so it's like this like kind of stepped schedule that happens before the heat that was way different than I'm used to. So for people that don't know, normally you would just be, you know, out with your heat in the water for a certain period of time and you just get the waves that you get. Yeah, well, normally like the lead up to your heat starting, like so I have my routine, you know? So my routine, I show up usually an hour before my heat. I watch the heat, the two heats before, or the heat before, then I get ready and the heat just before mine. do my warm-up grab my jersey go down the beach find a little space by myself kind of like get into my own little zone get in the water and then like kind of feel my thing there and then then I'm kind of heading out into my heat and I've like been allowed to like do my own little thing to get out there where the Olympics is like it was like very like hey you have to be here then you have to be here then you have to be here and you're like looking at the time for each thing and you're like okay now I got to get over there and then you're standing next to the competitor you're about to surf against and the waves are big.

1:23:59And then there's just like, he's trying to do his thing and you're trying to do your thing. And it's just like, it was way different than what I'm normally used to. Yeah, it's all very regimented and controlled and you're sort of corralled from place to place. Yes, exactly. That's ubiquitous for whatever sport you're in, I think at the Olympics, but you guys were in a really unique situation because obviously Paris Olympics, but you're in TV. And I'm watching this on TV. I was actually with Gervais. I was in Paris. Oh yeah. And we were talking about the surfing. And I was like, it looks like those guys have it pretty good.

1:24:35Like you were like, your dorms were on a cruise ship, right? Yeah, it was like - You were staying on a boat. It depended on your team. We were actually staying on land. Oh, you were? Yeah, Team USA had it. Like we had an incredible setup. Like, yeah. I was just looking at the cruise ship and I was like, this looks a lot better than like what all the athletes in Paris are having to deal with and having to get on buses and all that. But Gervais told me that actually it was quite challenging because that cruise ship was so far from where the surf points were and they would have to get up early and take these other boats and then go to land and then take other boats out.

1:25:10Like there was a lot of like logistical issues. If you're on the cruise ship, it was a mission to get to your heat. Like even more so than I was saying, like, yeah, you got to get on a boat to the land site. Then you're on the land site waiting for another boat to get out to the wave. And then you go through the whole thing I just explained. Yeah. And we kind of had it. Where I live, I walk out my front door and go right to pipeline. Yeah, yeah. Why can't it be like that? Yeah, so it was just definitely different in that sense. And I wish - Adaptability. Yeah, and I just didn't, I don't know. I underplayed it in my mind leading up to it.

1:25:47And so when it came to that moment, for me, I was like, oh, this is like way different than I was expecting. Also, not to mention the week leading up, you have set practice times. So, hey, you're going to go practice from 9.30 to 10 tomorrow with these two other teams, where normally it's like, I'm going to wake up and I'm going to go surf when I think my first, around the same time my first heat is and I'm going to play it like that, where this was just like, it was scheduled all the way through. Yeah, so you don't have that ability to control your routine. Yeah, it was really interesting though because it caught me off guard a little bit.

1:26:24And when I got caught off guard, I got so nervous. And then it was really hard to come back from that nervousness of like, oh, okay, like, wait, this is not what I was expecting. And it was just one of those moments where you like realize you're like, I'm so far from being like totally a master at doing this. So do you feel the pull to go back? Like, is there unfinished business there? Yeah, for sure. I think the Olympics is such a fun challenge just because it is pretty different and it's such a just a big event. So LA 28, where are they gonna do the surfing? They're having it down South at lower trestles.

1:26:57Yeah. You know it well. Yeah. You've done well there. A little separated, but it'd be pretty cool to be a part of that. Well, it's a little more approximate than Tahiti and Paris. Yeah, yeah, yeah. LA 28 is gonna be interesting. Yeah. I hope the city can be ready for it. I know. But it's pretty exciting that it's gonna be here. It's so exciting. I hope I can be a part of it. In terms of, I wanna get back to like the life lessons. that you learn from the ocean. It is a very, not necessarily Buddhist, but kind of like a Eastern philosophical kind of spiritual relationship that you have to have with nature in order to perform.

1:27:38And I feel like that gives surfers a really interesting perspective on life. Like we talked about adaptability and presence and mindfulness. Like, are there other ripples or aspects of what you do that you think are interesting for the average person to hear about that they could glean something interesting for their own life? It's hard to say whether it's just from the ocean or not, like just purely from the ocean, but I guess the one thing is just like that connection to nature. You're out there, you're surfing, there's wildlife, there's waves, you're reading the ocean and you're kind of in this space.

1:28:13And I guess the one thing I've learned is like, I don't know how good it is for you to be out in nature, or to be out in that kind of like, just whether it's in the mountains or in the water or whatever it is, I think it's like, yeah, like deeply innately good for the human body and mind and everything. And I know for myself, especially like, if I go surf for 20 minutes and I'm just by myself in the water, like I come out like a different person, you know? If I go for a hike in the mountains by myself, like you come out like a different person and just that feeling of being outside and just kind of like, like we talked about that before of that feeling of like letting go.

1:28:49I think that's what happens kind of in nature. It allows you to have that feeling of just like, ah, okay, I'm letting, I'm kind of letting go to just everything. Everything's just kind of happening, you know? And a humility. Yeah, the humility, like you can't control it. It's just, it is what it is. And I think being okay with that, not being able to control it. You live a pretty holistic lifestyle overall. Yeah. I would say in the grand scheme of, you know, modern society, you know, most of the time barefoot. Yeah. salt water drenched exactly like it's just every day at the beach every day in the water and the mountains are just where i feel the best is it strange when you travel and suddenly you're in some huge city i think california has always been the like i spend a lot of time here um our we have our main offices for our business here and stuff and every time i fly into california i don't know like when you fly in at night and it's just this like to los angeles gridlock of lights you know It's like, you're looking at it and you're just like, oh my gosh, to me, it's surreal every time.

1:29:51It feels like a different world. And then you get here and it's just like, life is so fast. Everything's moving so quick. It feels like everyone's in a rush to get somewhere. No, it's just that you guys are going too slow. Yeah, exactly. Like we traveled to Hawaii and you're like, come on with the coffee line, you know? Everyone's just like, oh, it's all good. Like we're doing our thing. Are you still a beekeeper? Yeah, we have our beehives still. What is that all about? Just another thing that I, I don't know, I get into all these different little hobbies. I see it and then I get really obsessed about it.

1:30:26And then I'm just like, oh, I got to know, I got to try, I got to see what that's about. But you've been doing that for a while. Yeah, we've had the beehives for a while. We have a couple of friends that help us with it a lot because we travel so much. But just getting to learn it and understand it a little bit, like it's such a complex little system. I don't know. It's so interesting to me. Every time we open up the hives, just the system that the bees have and how they work, it's pretty incredible. And do you keep the honey or sell it at the farmer's market? We don't sell it, we hoard it. That's a lot of honey.

1:31:01Yeah, no. So we have the hives, we lose some hives sometimes. Sometimes we get more. So we've caught a few swarms and then you gain two more hives. And so sometimes we've had up to like six hives and then I think right now we have four. So it depends like, and which ones are like producing. It's pretty amazing. Like all the hives are within a couple of feet of each other, you know, like standing right next to each other. And one hive could have found like nectar and flowers at one spot, but the hive next to it could be totally suffering and not have found it. It's so crazy how that works like that.

1:31:38And so it's always a balance of like getting honey out of the right ones and leaving the other ones, not touching them. So it's not always as much honey as you would think. Yeah, I would have thought it's just cranking out honey all the time. No, we definitely get like gallons of honey each time we harvest like once a year, but yeah. And where does the photography enter the picture? Like you're a big Leica guy, right? Yeah, so photography - People who are into Leica are like, they're super into Leica. yeah i i like the leicas a lot um i have two leicas but uh i got into it like my mom was always shooting photos when we were on the road and then i kind of just got into it at one point and then i it was random because i was like uh i was on a trip and a friend had a rangefinder camera it's like that's pretty cool type of camera and then i just looked i was like what's the best type of rangefinder and then everyone was like talking about like leicas and i was like oh i'm gonna get one of these and that first leica that i bought at that time i think it was like 17 or 18 or something.

1:32:34I still have it. I still use it all the time. And it's just such a solid little camera. It's fun to shoot. It makes you think about the photo more, but also I just think there's, it's a little bit of a novel, like it's kind of a novelty of a camera. It is. And when you see a, like a, you know it, like there's something distinctive, like you can't quite put your finger on it, but you can tell. I think through the lenses, you know, they have their colors that come through the lenses, the colors that come through on their sensors, also on their new cameras. Like it's pretty distinctive to Leica. Have you been to the Leica gallery here in LA?

1:33:11No, I haven't. You would dig it. It's pretty cool. It's awesome. Yeah. So you take that when you travel and you've just been chronicling your life. Yeah. Like I saw some videos where you're showing somebody some black and whites. I don't know what to do with my photos. and I'm like too lazy to like really actually do anything with them. So I just kind of like keep storing them and keep organizing them. But I love taking the photos at all these places we go. I have a Leica M10 and an M7 that shoots film. And the M7 was the first one I bought. And then for the longest time, I just shot black and white and developed my own black and white at my house.

1:33:46And that was really fun to learn that process. It's just a whole different side to it. So many variables that you can like change and adjust. and on the back end of shooting a photo. Do you enjoy the content aspect of your job? Like the idea that you have to be putting out these videos all the time. Like there seems to be like an endless appetite for surf videos. Like people love it. But I would imagine like there's, you seem like kind of a, you don't seem like somebody who's like seeking the spotlight or who's like getting off on that kind of thing. No, it's funny for me because I'm torn between the whole thing.

1:34:24Like my brother is really good at, he has like a YouTube and he's like kind of a big personality in that way. And he gets it all out there every minute, like Instagram and YouTube and all this stuff. And for me, it's a lot harder because I don't want really anything to do with that treadmill. But I love the art side of putting together projects and film and videos. videos and it's getting to a funny point because everyone just craves these really short youtube or instagram things and they're like liking the more raw just low edited kind of side of it and for me i'm like i don't want to do that i want to put together these like really nice things but they take so long but by the time they come out it's like old news for everyone well this is the this is the tension between art and commerce right it's like what i like and what's cool versus what what the algorithm likes or what people wanna see.

1:35:15And I think the algorithm just wants that raw, quick, short in your face, like in the moment. And I'm bad at that. Did you, you grew up with Koa Smith, right? Yeah. So he's like making YouTube videos all the time. I've watched a bunch of his videos. He seems like he enjoys it. Like he's more of a natural making that kind of vloggy stuff. Yeah, I think Koa enjoys it a lot. And that's interesting to me because like he's, a, yeah, kind of natural, like really into mindfulness and breathing and stuff. And so I'd be, I actually haven't asked him, but I want to now, but like how he balances that, you know, because it is, they're kind of counterintuitive in a way.

1:35:54Yeah. Right. If you're, if you're talking about being present and mindful, but you're, you know, making content out of it. Yeah.

1:36:06So it's this sabbatical year, like your sponsors are cool. You like, you've got buy-in and support to do this. Is that a challenge too? Like back to the kind of like economics and business side of like how you make everything work. Really see it as a sabbatical. Like, it's like more of like, just putting my energy into a different place, you know? And so like a lot of my partnerships, I've been fortunate enough to be able to partner with people that I'm really aligned with, like, and that their values align with my values. And so when I said, I was like, oh, I want to go sailing and adventure with my family and do projects around that everyone's like great that sounds awesome you know and so I think that's the benefit of like one having my own brand that I just do that and then the other ones are just like everyone's in line with that and everyone is like all about getting outdoors and the outdoor life and that's kind of become part of my inspiration behind my own brand and just what I kind of represent I guess is that trying to inspire people to get outdoors is a big one for me because I like I'm all I've spent so much time in and around the ocean that you just want to protect it and you want to do all these things to protect it and then I kind of came to a realization that like it's really hard to tell someone that hasn't spent much time in the ocean or around it hey you should protect this is pretty important they have to have their own connection point they have to have their own experience with that to want to do that and so I figured out I figured the best way is to get is to inspire people to go outside and find their own connection to it, you know?

1:37:35It would be hard to, if you're somebody who's in the ocean all the time or you're in the mountains all the time, it would be difficult to not be an environmentalist, right? Like you're in it every day, you're seeing things other people aren't. Like what is it, what is the message that you want to impart around sustainability and environmental awareness without bludgeoning people over the head? No, but it's a hard one, you know because like if like I said like if you're not out there and seeing it and feeling it and like have those amazing moments in it and then see the changes that happen like it's really yeah or be in the Philippines or somewhere and see all the garbage or you know like you see the changes to someone who's never seen that or been a part of that so uh like I just have gone more to the side of like I just want to get people like excited to go outside you know and so on that side of it is like, yeah, I think once they get excited, then it's a lot easier to have that conversation and be like, oh, like check out this.

1:38:31This is pretty interesting. You know? Where do you see yourself in five years? Like, do you think about that or are you just, you're so present and mindful? Like you're in your moment, dude. Five years is really hard to say. I could still be on my boat. I mean, you have, you have, you have goals, you have dreams, you have things you want to accomplish. Yeah. Yeah. My brand has become a really big one, like growing that and growing that in the right way and doing things responsible and making things that are really great. Like, I think that's a big part of my five-year goal. I have these competitive dreams still that I would love to do the Olympics, another world title, um, things like that.

1:39:07But then I also like want to go sailing around the world and that takes a couple of years and experience all these different cultures and places way out there and surf amazing waves. So I don't know if I can do that all in five years. So I Kind of got to like take it year by year and be like, okay, this year I'm doing this. I'm going all in on this. And that pendulum swings. Yes, exactly. The balance meter. The balance, yeah. And each year you're like, okay, how am I gonna balance this? If I'm sailing around the world, is my life in balance? Yeah. I don't know. You know, it depends on how you define that, I guess.

1:39:36Yeah. What would your advice be to a young up and coming surfer with dreams of glory and a commitment to excellence? Like what have you learned that you would want to impart to the younger generation? I think what I've learned is like, it's really important to find your own way and kind of let that process happen. Because you see a lot of kids now and they're being coached from such a young age to become whatever they are. But I think like, it's so important to kind of go down your own path and feel those mistakes yourself, learn things yourself. Because then it's just ingrained in you and you find your own path that's going to make you your best.

1:40:18Like me and you, for example, like we're going to have totally different approaches to something to be our best. And so that's what I would try to explain is like really let it happen for yourself and make your own mistakes. Yeah, it's self-understanding. Yeah. I mean, when you're young, you need guidance and you need externality, like somebody else to like guide you, right? But at some point, how do you have to take ownership of that? Yeah. And being able to take it, like, I like that a lot. Like being able to take ownership of the mistakes or of your failures or of your losses, not going, I lost because my coach told me to do this.

1:40:53Like, no, you lost because you made that decision to do that, you know? And so taking ownership of that, that's when you really start to learn. And that's when things just start to like steamroll. I feel like is when you're able to come in from a heat and you've lost and you go, yep, I didn't surf that wave well. I didn't go on that wave or whatever it is. It's no one else's decision making but your own. But there are like all the young kids have coaches now, right? Yeah, it's a crazy thing. And I think I don't want to discount that at all. Like having a coach is so important. And like, I worked with Ross Williams for the last eight years now, like through my three world titles.

1:41:38And it was so fun to be able to have someone to be able to like, but the way we worked was like, I would, he's always there as my sounding board to be able to like, hey, I'm, I want to start going in this direction. This is what I'm looking to do. And then he, he would kind of give a little bit of like, oh, that looked really good when you did that, you know? And then I would come in and look at the footage and go, oh, you're right. That did look really good. Like that didn't feel good. when I was out there, but that actually looks good. I'm gonna keep working on that. And so just someone to kind of help pull you back to reality sometimes, because it's really easy to get caught up in your own mess of mental stuff.

1:42:15You need an outside perspective who's objective, right? And that relationship should be collaborative. Yeah, exactly. And so like Ross has like always been there and really good at helping me get to like, feeling my best, feeling confident and feeling like, okay, like I'm in my space, you know? My whole team has been that. We've kind of worked on this relationship of this. When I got to heats, I feel confident. I feel good. I feel like I'm doing the right stuff. I've had so many sessions where I've come in before a contest like the day before. And I'm like, that board felt terrible. I didn't feel good.

1:42:51I felt slow, sluggish. And he's like, what are you talking about? You look totally normal. You look fast. And just that day in my head, I was not feeling like I thought I should be feeling, but then I come in and I talk to him and then I watched the clips and I'm like, you're right. That's in my head. Short of that, like without that external feedback, when you get into that negative mindset or you start to spiral, like how do you pull yourself out of that? Or how do you kind of maintain a positive mental attitude? I think breathing has been a lot of that. Like you and self-realization, like in that like oh I see that I'm starting to spiral okay I'm gonna take a couple deep breaths I have these tools that kind of like help me get like just kind of get yourself out of that mindset for a second and then for me it's like it's like a breathing a couple thoughts to like reminders to like get myself jump started out of that and then a couple small things that I can do really easily like I said earlier like I'm gonna take off my wave and do a turn and then see what happens after that.

1:43:55And so for me, that's like my steps that like I go through during a heat. If I get into that, like really negative space. What is the specific breathwork practice? Is there one, or you have a, like a battery of different ones that you do? I have like a bunch of different ones. Like there's like a, I found like, like a Wim Hof type breathing, like maybe not exact, but similar, like before competition, I always like doing it. Like really helps me if If I'm nervous, get like just all the nerves and stuff out. And I feel really like confident after. So that's like one during, it can be more of like a really deep breath to like holding it.

1:44:32And then like, it's like kind of one I learned from Mike, but like deep breath and then like a little more and just feeling the tension and then just relaxing and letting everything relax with that. And I, sometimes I'll do that during heats or during heats, I'll do like a quick, like in and out, like through the nose only. And just kind of getting that focus and counting that. And just little ones that like kind of help you just like get you out of whatever you're in. Yeah, calm your nervous system down. Like it's incredibly reliable and effective. It is, you're doing it all day. You might as well.

1:45:04So you are flying out tonight, you're going to Fiji. Like you're basically living on a boat in Fiji right now, right? And so, so what, you know, what is the, what's the plan for this year? or just follow your muse and be with your family? Yeah, so there's kind of like a few things. Like I really want to learn that aspect about the ocean. I want to learn more about navigating and weather and all that stuff. I want to learn about going to these remote areas and being able to surf. I want to learn to do it with my family on board and spend every moment with my son, watching him grow. And then it's great because my brand is like built around being outdoors in these like environments.

1:45:43It's all in service to the brand. Yeah. So I get to like test all this amazing gear and be like, this works, this doesn't work at all. And so I feel like it's like a really good, fun, just everything's kind of flowing together with it. Yeah, that's beautiful, man. Where can people buy your Florence gear? Is it in retail stores? Yeah, we're in a bunch of retail stuff. And then we're online too, which is probably the easiest for most people. What's the website for that? It's FlorenceMarineX.com. I think you should create a new website just for your photos. Yeah. As a creative project. I've been thinking about it like something.

1:46:26Yeah, it's on my mind. Because there's some beautiful stuff just in some of the stuff that I saw. Like it's really nice. I think people would enjoy that. Thanks, yeah. It's definitely on my mind. I just have to get around it. I always love athletes that are also artists or who aren't afraid to also pursue their creative whimsy. I grew up in a time where it's like, you can't be both. Like you're an athlete or pick your lane. You know what I mean? And it's always really cool to see athletes who don't buy into that and are like, no, I'm doing both of these things. Yeah, I think it's just fun to be able to pursue whatever you wanna pursue.

1:47:06Life's pretty free. Like you can just like, okay, I like taking photos. I'm gonna start taking some photos. and being okay with that, that's how you surf or that's how your photos look or that's who you are. Yeah, all right, man. Well, last thing, let's wrap it up. What is the one nugget of wisdom you wanna leave people with about your unique life experience, this path that you've taken, the high highs, the low lows that you wanna go out with here? No pressure. I might say - Do you wanna take a brew? We'll do some breath work first. Yeah, exactly. I might say something completely different next year or the year after that, because I feel like it's - Well, no, this is where, this is a snapshot of your life.

1:47:46This is where you're at in your life. Like, I feel like you're in a really good place with your life right now. You would have to be to make the decisions that you're making right now. Yeah, I think a snapshot of where I am right now is like just knowing a direction, knowing a direction you want to go, having that goal set, but then just enjoying the process to that, whatever that might be. So it's not overthinking of like, I got to get this job or I got to win this goal, but like going like, okay, that's the direction I want to go. And I'm going to start here. And then I'm just going to take it step-by-step and enjoy whatever that process is.

1:48:19And I think you can apply that to kind of like anything you're doing and being okay, whether you fail or maybe you end up doing something completely different, but just having a direction and a starting point and taking a step to do it. I think that's solid advice, man. Great to meet you. Thanks for doing this, man. I really appreciate it. This was super special and super fun for me. Yeah, fun conversation. Come back anytime. Thank you. And you are an inspiration, dude. Like I'd love watching you do your thing. It's, you're touched in many ways and I'm a fan and wish you well and can't wait to see, you know, what the next chapter of your life looks like.

1:48:56Awesome. Thanks for having me. Cheers.

1:49:08that's it for today thank you for listening i truly hope you enjoyed the conversation to learn more about today's guests including links and resources related to everything discussed today visit the episode page at richroll.com where you can find the entire podcast archive, my books, Finding Ultra, Voicing Change, and The Plant Power Way. If you'd like to support the podcast, the easiest and most impactful thing you can do is to subscribe to the show on Apple Podcasts, on Spotify, and on YouTube, and leave a review and or comment. And sharing the show or your favorite episode with friends or on social media is, of course, awesome and very helpful.

1:49:48This show just wouldn't be possible without the help of our amazing sponsors who keep this podcast running wild and free. To check out all their amazing offers, head to richroll.com slash sponsors. And finally, for podcast updates, special offers on books and other subjects, please subscribe to our newsletter, which you can find on the footer of any page at richroll.com. Today's show was produced and engineered by Jason Camiolo. The video edition of the podcast was created by Blake Curtis and Morgan McRae with assistance from our creative director, Dan Drake. Content management by Shana Savoy, copywriting by Ben Pryor.

1:50:28And of course, our theme music was created all the way back in 2012 by Tyler Pyatt, Trapper Pyatt, and Harry Mathis. Appreciate the love, love the support. See you back here soon. Peace. Plants. Namaste.

1:50:52Thank you.