Anok Yai On Facing Her Mortality and Looking At Life Through New Eyes

0:00Chioma, your trip looked amazing. Oh my God, it was. You were a Pelicano? It was so needed. Like Dua and Callum? I know, I miss them by a hair. And then someone was like saying that Spider-Man was there. And I was like, wait, did I miss Tom Holland? Is he here? Like, what's going on? And was he? No, I don't think so. I didn't see him. A different Spider-Man? The real Spider-Man? Fake news. The real Spider-Man potentially, but not that I saw. but just so nice to be horizontal and swim in the ocean. And the view's fantastic. The food's fantastic. And it feels like a bit of a step back in time to an idea of a different hotel.

0:37You feel like you're in the 70s. It really feels like old school Italian glamour. Oh, my God. 100%. It's so that. And I love all the Lisa Corti linens and cushion covers. It totally inspired me. That's like all of the tablecloths I use now. Oh, my God. everything you pick up the the cutlery the plates you just photograph everything yeah even the pillows i was like literally like trying to order the italian pillows because it's the most luxurious sleep experience i've had in a long time and i swiftly switched up all of my i'm so happy for you yeah this is the run through i'm chloe mel and i'm chomanadi and on today's episode i'm bringing you this wonderful conversation with Anok Yoi who I interviewed a while ago in 2020 when she was just starting out and she really had something back then Chloe like she just you know when you interview someone and you know they're going to be a star interesting yeah yeah yeah I felt that way when I interviewed Taylor Swift in 2011 oh my god girl you I didn't realize you interviewed Taylor Swift oh my god talk about a wedding that's coming up but more of that later are you yeah yeah keep going Like I interrupted.

1:49It's so true. You just kind of get that feeling. And anyway, I got that feeling when I interviewed her. She's like one of 16 models I had to interview. So she was pretty like she just stood out and she was at the beginning of her career. And it's been so wonderful to see her grow into the supermodel that she is. Like she loves fashion. She's just so committed to making fantastic images and turning a look on the red carpet. And this year has been a particularly emotional one for her since she had that awful health situation. I won't give away too much, but she kind of talks about that in the interview.

2:26And it was quite emotional. And the shoot was quite emotional because her mom and dad were on set. And I think everything that's happened to her in the last year kind of came, was compounded. and working with someone that she was so close with, with like Raph Pavarotti, who's worked with her since the beginning of her career. And there are some amazing images that she shot with Grace Coddington, actually, at the beginning of her career that Raph and her did together. Oh, I have to pull that up. I bet that was a great shoot. Yeah, they're fab. They're really good. So it's a really fun interview.

2:58It's quite a moving interview. And she touches on what's coming next. So buckle up. I'm so excited. And I love seeing her walk. And so I hope that she is a couture stalwart. Well, I have a suspicion, a hunch that she may be walking a few important shows next week. So well, there's only a few. Oh, my God. Don't you love that about couture? That is like literally the slowest schedule ever. It's a completely different vibe. It's the best. It's the best. What are you packing? Because it's going to be 45 degrees, girly. Get ready. I know. I mean, I wish it was 45 degrees Fahrenheit, but you mean Celsius.

3:35I mean, sorry, I mean Celsius. 100 degrees. 100 degrees. Well, it's also 100 degrees here. So you're used to it. It's going from one to the other. But I mean, I always find dressing for summer so much easier than dressing in the winter because it's just less things to think about and coordinate. And so I don't mind just wearing a dress. Well, the sweat situation. But the sweat is not great. It is making me think about like, is this silk going to hold up well? Is this going to be a flop, floppy silk situation? No, no. There's a lot of things to consider. I thought Julian's men's show was so beautiful.

4:11I thought all the men's shows felt like such a bigger cultural moment. I think that men's week is gaining such steam. I love to see it. And it's actually like a much chiller experience as an attendee. I haven't been in a while, but I love going to the men's shows because everyone's much more laid back. and the vibe is just a little bit less tense. Sometimes these shows can be a little bit tense, as we know. Yes, I think that's true. And I loved hearing our recap on the run-through earlier this week. So everyone should listen to Nicole and Max and Luke. So weren't you recently out of town too? Yes, I had a similar little mini break.

4:55My family rented a house, a beach house in South Carolina. We tried to do a sort of southern vacation because it's closer to where my in-laws live in Virginia. And we went to South Carolina and we're on one of the islands off of Charleston. And it was so much fun and so beautiful. We went on this incredible eco tour on a boat where we went to a sort of deserted island and found the most amazing conch shells and crabs. And we saw dolphins there were jumping around like squirrels. whirls. It was Arthur and I were swimming with a dolphin, although I did get corrected by the eco tour guide. He said, swimming with the dolphin, that's a felony.

5:36I was like, no, no, we didn't touch it. We just it was just in front of us. He was like, you can't interact with the dolphins. I was like, we didn't. I promise. But the water was so warm. And Charleston has such excellent food. We ate at this restaurant, Vern's, which was one of the best meals I've had in several years. It was delicious. What did you eat? What was on the menu? There was this amazing like hand cut tagliatelle with mushroom and truffle breadcrumbs and sort of a raw egg yolk in the center. So it's kind of tasted like a cachet pepe, but was really fantastic. There was this pole bean dish that was unusually delicious.

6:12Everything just felt like a party in your mouth. Wow. OK. OK, Charleston, maybe I need to go and take a detour to Charleston on my next trip to New York. and there's uh the most amazing ice cream i've ever had which is this trompe l 'oeil fried chicken ice cream which is stop stop trompe l 'oeil fried chicken ice cream like we've had a lot of you took me there with the mint flavor now we're going trompe l 'oeil i know this is now an ice cream pod this is taking me places i wasn't expecting to go it comes in a bucket like a bucket of fried chicken and you take out these drumsticks and they look exactly like a fried chicken drumstick, but it's actually cornflakes surrounding it.

6:58And then inside is vanilla ice cream. And then the drumstick itself is a chocolate covered pretzel. And it is just a spectacular combination of textures and tastes. And I cannot recommend it highly enough. Oh, I actually love the sound of that. It was really good. Worth your breaking your sugar streak. Oh, God, I broke my sugar streak. Oh, did you? Don't worry. Oh, I had a tiramisu that changed my life. Oh, good. I mean, if you're at the Pelicano. I mean, I was just like, we're in the Roman countryside. I was like, just eat it, God. Eat it. We also, Alice and I got a sticker book at the airport, which was Taylor and Travis are getting married.

7:41Oh, stop it. They already have merch. There's already pre-children's merch. and that brings us to the wedding of the weekend, which is really... I mean, maybe the wedding of the decade. I don't know. Choma, there's so many crazy rumors and TikToks going around of like pictures. So what's she going to wear? Well, apparently she's like had six dresses custom made, but some of them are red herrings and we don't know what they're going to be. She's not going to decide until the last minute. All these different small brands have been giving, you know, dozens of dresses called in in mysterious ways.

8:15There have been videos of all these trucks unloading at Madison Square Garden and signs on it that says like Garden Scene 1 and Castle 2. And they're like building different parts of the set, apparently. So wait, she's getting married at Madison Square Garden? I'm so glad I get to be the one to share this news with you. Oh, my God. I would love to unpack this because I am curious as to why. First of all, isn't it a place where she has worked in the past? Wouldn't you be triggered? Isn't it like getting married in the office for her? I don't know. Has she played Madison Square Garden? Yes, she definitely has.

8:54I mean, look, I think that if you want to get married in New York City, it's a very big wedding. Apparently, it's between 500 to 1 ,000 people, which I think is absolutely insane. Wow. I know that some of the people that we've been going after on the guest list for Wimbledon are going there. Interesting. So it's if you're having a wedding of that scale and you want it to be New York City, the I mean, I remember hearing about this during the U.N. General Assembly, like there's very few hotels and venues that are security and privacy approved for that kind of thing. Madison Square Garden is one of them.

9:27I am confused, though, because there's been videos of them like setting up a Met gala style red carpet for the steps going into Madison Square Garden. And so part of me is like if you're doing MSG, have people come in through the garage so they don't get seen. But this way you might as well do it at the Plaza or the Waldorf because they're going to have to walk in anyway. I don't know. Unexpectedly, Graham Albert is like very pro this. He thinks he's like, you've been to so many fancy weddings. Think about how they just transform. I love it when Graham's take makes it so far. We love Graham! But it's true.

10:03He's like, there's so many weddings that are just enormous, like empty venues that are transformed into their own magical creations through tents. Like what if it's, you're not even going to know you're in Madison Square Garden. And I'm like, but you are. You're going to walk through those steps. You're going to know. You're going to think, am I at a Knicks game? Nope. I'm at a wedding that's apparently castle themed. It's very hard to unpack. Whoa. I mean, listen, I'm hoping for it. So let's just see, shall we? Let's just see. And apparently everyone's individual, the rumors that everyone's individual invite has been watermarked.

10:38So if anyone shares an invite, you know which guest shared it. Oh, my goodness. Well, I mean, it's going to be spectacular. It's going to be the wedding of the decade. I can't wait to see what she wears. You know, I'm sure there'll be several outfit changes. Hopefully she doesn't have to perform our own wedding. But hey, let's see what happens. Well, and then there was a rumor that the Princess of Wales was coming to the U.S. for Fourth of July. But I don't know that that's happening. So we really we had a princess and castle themed wedding. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know if she'd make it for both. And we may, to be honest, listeners, we may never know.

11:18What goes in Madison Square Garden may stay in Madison Square Garden. Choma, segue to Wimbledon. Have you gone yet? Has it been fabulous? I haven't gone yet. I'm still, we're still wrapping up for our event on Saturday. So it's okay. The guest list is looking up. I won't give it all away, but the guest list is shaping up to be fabulous. Anna and Adam Badawi are both co-hosting with Mari Clark and I, who's the new head of editorial content of British GQ. And he's so fun. Oh, fun. and Wimbledon's just always such a it's just like such a big moment here in the UK and the way people get dressed for it is quite different to the US Open and having been to the French Open now too I still think that like we kind of rule when it comes to the style stakes are a bit higher now and I'm also glad to see that the players have gotten that memo because I think Naomi Osaka's look the one that she yeah that was amazing yeah it was gorgeous I love that she nodded to her her Japanese heritage.

12:20And it was just, you know, I love how she embraces the fashion side of what she does with such gusto. But it's been wonderful to have like Serena back on call and at Wimbledon this week. So fun. Yeah. How was Mark Jacobs? I know that was earlier this week. That was Monday night. Mark is amazing. He's the only person I feel like who can get away with calling a show for 7.30 and at 7.34 the show is over. Oh my God, really? It was crazy. But it was great. It was like inspired by Bob Fosse. It was very jazz forward, sort of bright tights and sheer. Models look great. It was also he just relaunched Mark Beauty.

13:02And so people were very excited about that. But I like when he shows off calendar because I think it's a fun, it feels different. And everyone is always happy to sort of be having a little run-in reunion. It looked really fab from afar. Fab from afar. Fab from afar. Is that a name of a newsletter?

13:27The run through will be back with Anokyo. Bye, Choma. Bye. See you later.

13:44Hi, this is Bella Freud. Each week on Fashion Neurosis, I interview highly creative people in the world of fashion, film, art, sport, literature, and music. The format of the show is that my guest lies on the couch and I sit in a chair like an analyst. I know. I ask questions, quite simple things that revolve around how we reveal or hide things through what we wear, how we do or don't draw attention to ourselves. Find Fashion Neurosis on YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts.

14:31Anok, Gilma Hey, sister Hi

14:40I remember the first time we met, do you? Do you remember when I interviewed you for that cover story for American Vogue back in 2020? I think, was it the denim? Yeah. Do you remember? I remember being, like, terrified. And I was like, what is she going to ask me? Is it going to be, like, really hard questions? And then when we started doing it, I was like, oh, she's really nice. Okay. You were such a star back then, even. You could tell. You were so engaged by modeling. You loved fashion. And you had this spark that was, like, so quality even back then. Thank you so much. Yeah, it's been so wonderful to see you go from strength to strength in the last seven years.

15:23I was just reflecting back on that interview and I was looking at the issue, the June issue, which Anok is the cover star for. And it's absolutely one of my favorite covers. It's absolutely beautiful. And I was just thinking back on that moment. And it's just so nice to see someone grow and come into their own. And I think you've really done that. So we're recording this ahead of Couture Fashion Week. I always have to ask models what makes Couture different because I know how it's different for us as editors. But I think walking those shows is also a special experience and fitting for those shows is a special experience.

16:03Can you tell us how you prepare and what it's like? The preparation for Fashion Week and Couture is kind of the same for me. like I like to I like to prep by like working out making sure my body and my mind is ready um doing like grounding um grounding work journaling a lot and then like I'm just like preparing my body to like be on the go go go go go 24 7 and then um like during a normal fashion week it's it's a full month of just like non-stop fit fit show fit show another thing another thing another fitting and it's like multiple fittings in one day and multiple shows in one day and um it goes like that and um for couture it's maybe one show a day or one fitting a day and the fittings last they can last up to like two three hours and um i remember the first what was the first couture that i did was it the valentino one in 2019 it was one of the early ones but that might have been the first one what was the first one that's kind of sticks out of your mind yeah i remember distinctly uh i it was for alexander mcqueen and i was in this rose dress and um they made the bustier and then like the rose is coming up and then coming from around me and i remember that the fitting lasted uh the fitting lasted quite a while because the thing is the couture pieces they're so intricate and the attention to detail is like nothing that i've ever seen before and then i remember like when we were doing the fitting and um the tares would come and and work their magic and then i would look at the dress and i'm just like i can't believe a human being made this and i just think about all the hours that they put in because like realistically like the hours that are put into the fitting versus the hours that's put into making the garments is like vastly different and yeah i'm just really excited for to do couture this season because i haven't done i haven't done couture in a while yeah i mean i i always love the couture shows and it'll be great to see you it's always a joy to see you on the runway your walk is incredible thank you so you were our june cover star it was truly stunning i think it was a really special story thank you so much it's a shoot that happened in paris also the site of the shows um the photographs were shot by rafael pefferotti who is a longtime collaborator of yours styled by kate phelan and hair of course by joara another longtime collaborator of yours what was it like to be on set with your mom and dad because that was an element that i think i really loved um and I think it's something that added a new dimension to the way that we see you because we've seen you take on every amazing fashion character possible in your career but that felt different yeah and the change is like very noticeably different because usually when I go on onto sets I go in as a knocky eye and i am i try to keep it as professional as possible and i am just like dead focused on like how do we how to do this hair the best how to do the makeup the best how do i do figure out this pose and then i'm just like focused 100 on like creating like amazing images and i was while we were shooting british vogue but the second my parents walked in i just flipped into acting like a little girl and I was just running around being like oh let's try this mom oh my god and I was just like a tornado running around the room and then um and then my dad was like in the corner drinking tea like making sure that I was behaving and it was like really weird like when you're like you know like when you're when you're around your friends you're different person when you're at work you're different person then when you're with your parents like you turn into a little kid and then honestly too I went to Manchester a few days ago and I went to go visit my mom and then my mom goes you need to be home by 8 30.

20:27I'm like what and then my friends are just like and then um it's nine o 'clock and then it's 10 o 'clock and then it's and then it's 11 and then my mom starts texting me where are you what's going on where are you and I'm like mom can I stay out till midnight please and then um one 1 a.m comes by and then she goes I'm going to bed tired of waiting for you see you tomorrow and I'm just like I'm gonna get torn up tomorrow and then the next day I I like gathered all of my friends to come into to come to my mom's house with me to protect me from her but yeah she don't play like it doesn't Like, no matter how old I am, my mom still, I'm still her little girl.

21:15And then I remember, like, when I was, like, arguing with her about the curfew, I was like, when I was in middle school, the curfew is later than it is now. I'm in my 20s. Why are you telling me to go home at 8.30? When I was on set with her, it was just really exciting. And then it was their first time in Paris. and they were just like, I could see like the pride in their eyes and they were so shocked about like what goes on behind the scenes of a photo shoot. And then I remember like when I started shooting, doing the shots with my mom, the first shot, she was like nervous, but she was like getting into it.

21:56By the second shot, she's like, Anak, turn your head like this, pose like this. Wow. I said, sister, you got a little bit too much dip in your chip.

22:07and she was like no stop posting like that don't like that and i'm just like girl this is my domain i know what i'm doing trust me but yeah it was so much fun so your dad i think he looks so dapper in his suit was that his own suit i think that was okay so it was originally me and my mom and then my dad he always every time we i invite him anywhere to any events or anything with me he always comes in a suit if i could invite him to the pool that's like my dad it's like my dad it's the african bad thing don't you think my dad only wears suits even on the plane now he wears a suit yeah he wore a suit on the plane of course he goes i'm i wouldn't be surprised if he takes uh showers and suits and yeah so my dad pulled up in his suit and then he was just sitting in the corner um watching me and my mom and then rafael turns around and he's just like fab you want to get in the shot so then he throws him in the track classic raf

23:09and then my dad was like doing the african thing like no no no but i knew he wanted to get in it of course yeah but then once he got in it like uh yeah i was i was really excited was fly yeah he was aura farming like crazy like like being cool like standing like uh people were like saying that he was standing around like my security guard. So, so sweet. I mean, tell me about your relationship with Raph, because I can read out some of the things that he sent to me after the shoot, and it really touched me, and I want you to hear what he said about you. This cover to me is about rebirth. As you know, Nott went through a very delicate health moment.

23:50It was a very hard time for her. And glory to the gods, after a few months, she came back with a very strong energy for life. It was beautiful to see her and very emotional to me. Life is fragile, just like the layer that covers planet Earth. It's a thin, transparent layer that sustains life. When she arrived to shoot, there was a different awareness in her body. Something had transformed there. She's more in tune with her body, with her strength, with her sensitivity. I did not want to create an obvious image of overcoming I did not want to dramatize her pain I wanted to celebrate her return to life the breath of life celebrate her and everything she gives to us as an artist the birds on our head represent that movement, breathing, imagination, freedom they are signs of life returning to the body to the mind, to the spirit and the fact that they are resting in balance shows that there is serenity after the storm the sun has returned to shine They found solid ground where they can sing softly and solid ground is a healthy body and a peaceful mind.

24:48There is something very beautiful when someone goes through such a delicate experience and comes back more connected to themselves, more present, more alive. This image speaks about that, about fragility transforming into strength, about the body beginning to pulse again, about life starting anew again. To me, this is an image of rebirth. Oh. Right? It's powerful. It makes me like, I literally choked up.

25:17Yeah, Raph is, he's really special to me.

25:27When we first started working, it was the beginning of both of our careers. And I remember whenever we were on set, it was just like us playing around and doing whatever we could to have fun. And then I remember we would bounce off each other and have these crazy moments. And I remember there was this one shoot where he was like, get on my back, get on my back, get on my back. So basically we were shooting. It was me, Grace Coddington, and Raf. And while we were shooting, I was like, Like, we should have the, one of the makeup artists was Anna. She was doing my makeup. And then Raph was, like, jokingly, like, taking photos of her, taking photos of her doing my makeup.

26:17And then I was like, we should put them in the, put everyone in the shoot. So then we did that. And then it was, like, a photo of me and Grace holding hands. And then a photo of her doing makeup. And then a photo of Eugene doing my hair. And we just have this relationship where we protect our artistry and we protect ourselves and we protect each other as human beings. And we're humans first. And whenever we are on photo shoots together, he'll do prayers with everyone on set. and then um I just remember like I I grew up with him basically like in the fashion in terms of fashion space not literally but in terms of fashion like we grew up together and like he's seen me like start out my career and then start now and he's really really good at like reading my energy and then like and he's really good at helping me tap into myself spiritually and I remember um when i first came in he was like uh you're different he's like you're the light is back because i remember when after the um after the surgery and like being so close to death i i like fell into like a depression for a bit

27:38and uh sorry it's okay take your time like you've been through a lot in the last year and a half

27:48yeah i like fell into like a depression and the while i was in the hospital because i like realized like how fragile how fragile like my mortality was and i even i remember like like i was like being a kid like being a teenager like you never think like anything like bad can really happen like to to you and um you almost feel like invincible and then so when I was like that close to death and then um like being in the hospital for for that long and then like going through like all the pain and then losing all the weight um because I remember I I lost I think 12 pounds in the hospital gosh and then I remember my mom just staring at me well everyone in the room was staring at me um like on the ninth day and I was like really frail but I didn't notice but I just remember like everyone in the room just being like is she gonna make it out of this and um once I like fully recovered I it took a while for me to like find an understanding of like or the why and then I realized that um God saved me for a reason and I hold life so precious now and I keep every moment with me and I like approach life with like with new colors like like like Raf said and um every little thing that like that I experience I like it's it's 10 times more precious and like I'm I'm like I won't say I'm glad but like I I am I respect what I was put through and I look at life would hold new eyes.

29:39And Raph saw that immediately. And I think that's how the concept of that came. Chow, I thought this was going to be a funny interview. Sorry, sorry. I don't know. I just saw that there's this beautiful innocence about you. There is like a childlike playfulness about you, which I loved in that. And like it is like a rebirth, like you're coming back to life and you're seeing the world differently. And I love that Raf captured that about you. And I think it's that quality about the photos that I think has resonated with people around the world. I saw so many reactions to those images. And you're such a fantastic model.

30:24And there isn't a story that you've done that isn't great. But this felt more personal, more vulnerable. yeah um and um and my colleague Fumi Feta who interviewed you her story reading it I know she's so fabulous she and she holds people you know she's when I have a when I ever have any kind of issue I go to her and she just kind of holds me she holds space for me and and it was such a gut punch reading the story because we knew a little bit about what was going on with you you know I'd seen the Instagram posts I knew that was that you were going for a really difficult time but reading the details hearing your voice was quite was quite powerful and I hadn't known quite how much you were going through yeah it was it was a lot because I remember when it happened because I went into the surgery right after I had won the the model of the year award I I think I went to surgery like the next week or something and I was planning the the surgery was the way it me and the surgeon planned it to go was I do the surgery and then I was supposed to be able to go home after like a day or two and then the recovery was supposed to be two weeks so I go home after two days and then I do the recovery and that was what I posted but then what happened after that was when like it all like kind of like went to shit almost because I remember when I was recovering for the two weeks that was going by, I just remember my chest just getting tighter and tighter and tighter and tighter as the days went by.