April Cover Star Doja Cat on Taxidermy, Touring, and Therapy

0:00I'm Chloe Mel, and I am so excited to tell you all about the spring issue of Vogue, my first as head of editorial content. It is full of so many examples of what Vogue does best. There is a spectacularly romantic cover shoot with Rosalia, a beautiful and moving remembrance of Valentino Garavani by Hamish Bowles, the quest for the perfect pillow with a beautiful oil painting illustration inspired by the Simone Rocha runway show, a tribute to shoes that pack a punch, starring some of our favorite staff doggs. It's an issue I'm so proud of. I'm so excited for everyone to see it and to touch it and hold it and keep it.

0:41And if you're not already a subscriber, this is the moment to join. You can get unlimited access at Vogue.com slash spring issue. My goals for my closet are classic, timeless items I know I can come back to year after year. I want my items to be well-made and stylish, but also comfortable and well-priced. And no, that's not too much to ask. It's why I love Quince. Quince has versatile quality pieces that make getting dressed a pleasure. Everything Quince makes is built to last, from the stitching to the fit to the fabrics. Because there's nothing worse than discovering your favorite tee is faded or flimsy.

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2:26This is The Run Through. I'm Chloe Mao. And I'm Liam Hess, Senior Lifestyle Editor here at Vogue. Today we have our incredible cover star, a true superstar among us, Doja Cat. She is Vogue's April cover, and she is touring for her album V right now. She's heading to Rwanda this week. And she's also on the Met Gala Host Committee this year and co-hosting our upcoming Vogue Vintage Market. And we got to speak to Doja about her mental health journey. She does therapy twice a week. Very exciting. What she's watching. Oh, it was such a thrill to meet her beautiful Maine Coon cat, Axel. Very handsome boy.

3:09So I hope everyone enjoys our conversation with the incredibly talented Doja cat.

3:18Doja Cat:Oh my God, I'm on a podcast. Yay. Hello. Hi, podcast. Wait, hold on. I have to close. Where are you? I love the forsythia behind you. I am in my kitchen, in my dining room. Excellent. What are these cool chairs? Yeah, that's super cool. I forgot the name of the guy, but I found them on First Sibs, and they're, like, super rare, and I had to have them because I'm a hoarder. Wow. How many do you have? One, two, three, four. I think eight. Okay. Tell us the rest of your, like, house decoration process. Like, are you doing this yourself late at night on first dibs? Are you, do you enjoy it? Are you doing it piece by piece?

3:58Doja Cat:Yeah, I go piece by piece, but I'm also very impatient. And I think like when I first got in here, I just wanted like it to feel like home. And so there was a point where I got stuff and then I had to resell a lot of stuff and it wasn't right. And so I went with the house because the house has a lot of black iron on it already, like the door trimmings and everything. And so I just went with like this kind of weird, eclectic, French, gothic, black iron thing. And I have a lot of old stuff in here. Lots of taxidermy and things like that. Oh, yeah. I've heard about this today for the first time. I also love taxidermy.

4:37I want to know what's your most recent taxidermic purchase? My most recent taxidermic purchase.

4:45Doja Cat:Or acquisition. it was it's people aren't gonna like this i think i i need to learn to not really care what the internet thinks at this moment um but i got the butt of oh i care too much i care too much what people think i got the ass of a of a bovine oh why does one acquire that ass of a bovine um yeah uh i actually don't know it was at a place with asses of bovines wow it doesn't sound like it's de roll in paris uh yeah no it's it's kind of almost safari a little bit too and i have a lot of like uh cowhide rugs in like you know zebra tiger you know things like that wow that's a lots of animals here.

5:39Well, Doja, welcome to the run through, by the way. We are so excited to have you. And I'm also delighted by your Zoom name, which is Nasty Wench. Can you tell us about that? Well, I'm a nasty wench.

5:56Doja Cat:I think a lot of people would agree. I'm a horrible witch and just a nasty little wench. We are very excited because when this episode airs, your Vogue cover will have just been released. We are recording this a few days beforehand, but it will be Wednesday, March 18th. And it is so fantastic. I love this cover and the whole shoot so much. I want to hear about your experience of the shoot, but it was shot in New York City with Carlos Nazario styling it and Willie Vanderpier photographing it. And it's this very glamorous sort of old icon vibe that I just think that they did such a great job with.

6:38But tell me, what was the most surprising thing about the shoot for you? What was the most fun part of the shoot? Most surprising and fun part? I think, like, I think it was just working with new people. I think I'm always really curious as to, like, how different people work together. And it's fun to just get to know new people and get to know them in an environment that they thrive in. That they kind of, you know what I mean? Like that's, everybody was just in their own element that day. And I think it was beautiful to see and be part of. And Carlos was fabulous. He's very easy to work with.

7:24I think we just got along very quickly.

7:28Doja Cat:And I mean, right off the bat, I mean. What was your favorite look that you wore? My favorite look? I wish I could tell you because the thing is you take these pictures and then you leave the set and then it's months later and you don't remember it. Well, I'll tell you my favorite look, which was the vermilion satin Givenchy trench coat that you did. Okay. Okay. It's like this beautiful blood red color. And you did it two versions, one with like a Marilyn wig and one without. And we all gasped when we saw those photos come in. I love that one. That one was really, really stunning. And that was different because we shot off the set, essentially.

8:14Doja Cat:Like it was kind of just in the corner of the room. And I thought that felt really nice. It like juxtaposed with the very formal look and then the sort of dinginess of the room. And I thought that was really cool. And of course, this isn't the first time we're meeting. I was very honored to be asked by Chloe to write this story. And also very lucky to head down, down under in December and spend a couple of days with Dojo and her team as she was touring there in Sydney. I went to see the first night. Well, I went both nights to see the show, but the first night it was, the energy was just crazy.

8:56It was sold out. and I can't believe that you're still going. To me, it feels like eons ago, but that was just the beginning for you. You're touring all the way through till this December. How are you feeling right now at this stage of the V World Tour? I'm burnt out. I'm tired. I have gotten some time to myself at home and it's been really, really nice. But I think the leading up to

9:25Doja Cat:is one of the hardest parts because it's, I think that's just anxiety in a nutshell is sort of thinking about the future, overthinking the future. So it's nerve wracking and I'm tired and I can't wait to be out on the stage, but it's just the process getting to, right? So I'm trying to, you know, take it easy and it's not, it's not going to be, the thing is, It's not going to be too much because my management and everyone, my team just understands that I need that time in between shows. So it's not so back to back and relentless as maybe one would think. What does the downtime look like for you?

10:10Like, are you on the couch watching Real Housewives?

10:14Doja Cat:Downtime for me is I kind of just put on a heating blanket and play Fortnite or I watch Judy Justice. Ooh, I don't know about Judy Justice. It's the new Judge Judy. Oh, my God. I didn't know there was a new Judge Judy. Yeah, it's so good. Oh, my God. No, I love Judge Judy. So I'm extremely excited about this. She's fabulous. She's so sharp. every time i've spoken to you at home as well you've been you've been with your cats you've been tending to your kittens i think last time one of them was sick is he doing any better now yeah he so oh who was sick i think he ate a cookie you said he was like a real cookie feed okay yeah so so i have a baby and he um he's a main coon polydactyl and he had a bite, maybe half actually of a brownie.

11:10Doja Cat:Wow. The chocolate thankfully was good quality. This was at night. So I was like, Oh my God, what vet is going to answer the phone? Like, there's just no way. But there was an instant like response from this online sort of vet thing. You can like call someone, they'll pick up the phone at like 11. I honestly, I don't know if it's legit, but it felt legit enough for me to have a peace of mind. I think it was, I think that it was legit but i called them they were like what kind of chocolate was it and because it wasn't like super processed it was like eggs flour and chocolate that was fascinating that chocolate quality makes a difference yeah like if it's fake chocolate like really crappy candy like that's usually what can make the cats really and dogs really sick but thankfully he didn't have enough to get sick.

12:01Doja Cat:And he's just also, here he comes. What a handsome boy. Do you see him? I see his beautiful tail. Gorgeous. Can you go through your cat names? Yeah, so his name's Axel. He's named after my last cat who passed away in July of last year. His name's Alex. So I swapped the letters And then I have an adult named Ray. Oh, excellent. My aunt's name was Ray who passed away, but he just looks like a Ray to me. I don't know what made me. Is he also a Maine Coon? I love Maine Coons. He is an oriental shorthair. The Run-Thru will be back with Doja Cat after the break.

12:58In a time when the United States military is being sent into American cities, when civilians and soldiers are being pitted against each other, it's strange that we've never dressed more alike. We all wear performance clothes. We all wear outdoor clothes, whether or not we're outside, civilians and soldiers. I'm Avery Truffleman. I make a podcast about clothing called Articles of Interest. And in this new season, I trace the interwoven histories of the military and the outdoor industry and how they built each other. Find articles of interest wherever you get your podcasts. And the season is called Gear.

13:36Okay, guys, it's finally spring. I'm so excited. I've been wearing my Penny Lane coat all winter. And while I do love it, I am so ready to be wearing layers and more fun outfits this season. I think Macy's is the perfect place to find all of my spring wardrobe essentials. They have great brands from Steve Madden and BCBG, where I can probably find some of those fun sheer layers I'm looking for. And I've really been into loose-fitting jeans, so I'm going to definitely take a look at what Macy's has in store there too. I know a lot of people are into barrel cut. I'm more into a relaxed fit jean.

14:17So I definitely will check that out at Macy's. I'm so ready to make the switch to spring and so glad that Macy's is here for it.

14:32I want to know about what you're wearing on your V Tour, because I thought it was very interesting that you're wearing one look per evening. Was that a decision from the beginning? Was that something that was about like making a statement every night or was it more logistics based? I think it's it's logistics based, but it's also like. I mean, people are there to see me and I don't want to get so lost in the I love bits and things that are, you know, like little cute, fun, gimmicky little things and stunts and things like

15:08Doja Cat:that. But I think for this, I mostly just wanted to own the stage and I wanted to know what it felt like to own a stage and be kind of more at one and not have to be caught up in the fashion of it all. So we went really hard with just one outfit. And, you know, it's fun every night. We don't really know what we're going to do. Really? Yeah. Yeah, I mean, some stuff is custom, but I love to take the custom and then like scramble it with the other things. And we have lots of crates, lots of underwear, lots of bras, lots of gloves, hats and silly things to play with. And so that's usually it was like a mania that I wanted to touch on in my in my mind.

15:53So do you already know what you're going to be wearing next week?

15:57Doja Cat:No, I have no idea. But you know what? I have somewhat of an idea just because there's custom that I love through and through, but I'm looking at sketches at the moment and it's not, it's like I don't know exactly what it looks like. I just see the sketches and I go, I want to wear that head to toe. I'm not changing anything, but we'll see once I see it. Is there a favorite look of the tour so far? My favorite look of the tour? I mean, I love Japan. I think that when it comes to makeup, like I'm really, really into makeup, maybe even into makeup more than fashion. But I think, yeah, the makeup for that was just, it was another world for me.

16:42I feel like a door opened that night when it came to something about Tokyo makes me just want to discover different parts of myself.

16:52Doja Cat:And that night was definitely one of those moments. And speaking of owning the stage, yeah, as I mentioned, I was lucky enough to see you two nights in a row and it was pretty extraordinary. I mean, you barely paused to breathe. It was like you were just going song after song after song. and you're such a powerful performer and you know and so present and it it was really astonishing to witness but i mean are there any what what kind of like headspace are you in when you're on stage are there any kind of performers you'd like to channel like especially on this tour given all of the sort of 80s references yeah i think that i think about certain things that i've seen that i don't i don't know i know nina hagan is like a massive inspiration to me and tell if someone's not familiar with nina hagan how would you sort of give them a quick debrief she's the queen of punk i think like when i think punk i think vivian westwood i think nina hagan and i think a little bit joan jet a little bit of joan jet just a little bit like i just think i think um yeah that that was a really nina was a huge inspiration for me for this tour she's otherworldly and has just given a lot to to music and and a lot to my mind and tell us a little bit more about v as a record as well because obviously it came sort of hot on the heels of scarlet which was a much more sort of rap focused album.

18:32It maybe had more of an aggressive sound. And then with V, you know, it's more pop leaning. And I know we spoke a little bit about Scarlett almost being something that you had to get out of your system a little bit. And yeah, I mean, and V, it seems like an album that was made with, it's an album about romance. It feels like you were in a much sort of happier, a more grounded place while you were making it um and yeah just give us the backstory i suppose

19:03Doja Cat:on how the album came to be sure um i i remember i was doing a lot of different r &b songs before i got into the whole the spiel like i i didn't really know what i wanted to do at first but i knew that I wanted to talk about love and my relationships and I was in a relationship that I I think I learned a lot from about myself and also just how people work and that was the baseline was the was the meaning of it but the the music aspect only came in about like man it took like months to get to a point of being like this is I want to do something that feels 80s because I know really nothing of the 80s there's things I know about it but I'm a 90s baby I was born in 95 And I like wanted this feeling of nostalgia that isn't even honestly based in the 80s.

20:15It's based in like my childhood. But when I describe this, I'm usually talking about like how when we were kids in the 90s, you saw a lot of like of the entail, like the trail off of like 80s architecture, 80s fashion. um you know 80s music because we were going into a new era in in the 90s it's different from the 80s obviously but there's a lot of things like when I was in school I would you know play with old toys that were probably from the 80s things that you know things like that and seeing adults and how the way adults dressed like I was really inspired by that and also the music like the music was still huge from the 80s in the 90s um artists from the 80s had their kind of like they had their their glow up in the 90s in a way it's like they were figuring out who they were in the 80s and then they they adapted to the 90s in a different way so it's it's weird because the album does feel super 80s but it really is kind of this you know wanting to understand the beginning of where I came from and there's this sort of like the kids like calling it a core but there's like a a core like it's like um man what is it sort of it's kind of related to dream core it's kind of related what is dream core dream core is uh it's like a sub-genre of aesthetic that is rooted in our dreams as children oh wow that we don't really remember till we see it in an image in reality it's like a they'll show you like a um a grainy or a kind of washed out image of like a house on a hill that's alone and it's like there's a there's something very lonely about it and i i touched on this a little bit it's like liminal so liminal space is like this sort of sub category of an aesthetic and it it that's kind of what it is it's like that what we remember as maybe millennials or maybe um I think some gen z maybe kind of kind of feel that way too but it's I wanted to sort of touch that in a way in pockets in my album and then there's some moments that are super on the nose 80s like really but I I know a lot of artists have done the 80s in different ways but the way I wanted to do it was sort of um in a tacky way like I wanted to I wanted that 80s tack I wanted that 80s like sex and the 80s cocaine and the 80s like just everything that felt felt kind of whimsical and silly in a way because the 80s was all about discovery of of different scents and people were making you know synthesizers that were like i'm rambling a little bit but people were making you know new equipment and and discovering new ways to do makeup like makeup was crazy in the 80s.

23:44You compare it to the 50s. It's just like bizarre. It really is. And so I wanted to really touch that. I wanted to be there. What was your favorite song to perform on tour? Was is there like one that every night you're like, oh, yes. My favorite song. It's so weird. I think about, you know, I love doing all mine because it's so different from everything else. um it's like an accent song in a way off the project and I think I yeah that's probably one of my favorite but take me dancing is another one that I'm like I just I love to be able to get out all my energy on that but there's so many that I love that I love doing amen there's a section of Amen.

24:29And I'm doing a cover of I'm a Man. I want to ask you, Doja, about your recent video where you talked about having lipoedema. How did you decide to share that? Yeah. So I cannot sleep at the moment because of all of the buildup to tour. It's so weird because I'm tired, but I'm not.

24:55Doja Cat:I don't know. I just can't sleep. So I'm up at 1 a.m. having thoughts. Okay, what's your sleep hygiene process? Like, what helps you sleep? I'll take two Benadryl if I'm panicking. Okay. If I need to be up tomorrow, I need to go to sleep. I'll take like two Benadryl or one. And you don't have a Benadryl hangover? I do. I do. Okay. I end up having it. But the thing is, when we start, like usually if I have to be up, it'll be, I just deal with it. Okay. But I have like a show at night. So like I don't mind having the hangover in the morning. Got it. You know what I mean? So what was the, oh yeah, the lipedema thing.

25:35So I was just up and I was like, I saw a surgeon. I got recommended something on YouTube about lipedema. And a surgeon was talking about it. Can you tell people what it is for those who don't know? So, Lipidema is a disease that is usually caused by hereditary stuff. It's passed down and it occurs mostly in women. And it happens on the lower half of the body typically, but a lot of people get it in their arms as well. but it's a stubborn fat that with any type of working out or eating, it doesn't matter what you do. That fat is going to stay there. And there are different stages where the fat can sort of migrate and grow and take this form that's kind of like a column-like shape in the legs.

26:31So instead of having sort of the normal curve to the leg, the fat will take on a look of almost like you have the legs of a baby. Wow. So you can have really like big knees with like kind of a baby face knees, what I call it. Like I have little, my, I used to have, or I still kind of have like little baby's faces in my knees, but it was pretty bad in my early, in my early twenties. and um it it can be a problem because there's other social things that come into play with with lipedema like when I was much younger I had a lot of people like unwanted attention because I had a really big butt and so my butt was so big that it was just like kind of like every morning going to middle school going to school it would be like oh her butt is like Like people just like pointing and walking and, and, and people would be like, wow, your body's so crazy.

27:28You're, this is incredible. Like, how is your waist so small and your butt so big? And meanwhile, I'm like, why is my waist so small and my butt is so big? Like I, I couldn't, like, I just didn't want that attention on me and it made me extremely uncomfortable and self-conscious. and I just wasn't comfortable with it for a long time. And so I saw those pictures of different people with different stages of lipoedema and I came to a conclusion, I self-diagnosed. We love that. That I am stage two.