Aurora James on the Future of DEI in Fashion

0:05This is The Run-Thru. I'm Nicole Phelps. Today, I'm joined by Aurora James, the founder of the 15 % Pledge, a nonprofit launched in 2020 with the goal to have retailers commit 15 % of their shelf space to Black-owned businesses. We talked about the 15 % Pledge origin story, its wins, and the challenges she's facing as many companies continue their rollbacks on diversity, equity, and inclusion. We also discussed her work as the creative director and founder of luxury accessories brand Brother Vellies and her obsession with vintage shopping. Here's my conversation with Aurora.

0:43Well, thank you very much for being here. Oh, thank you for having me. I'm excited to chat with you today. We are here to talk about DEI rollbacks in the fashion industry. This is something you have spent a lot of time thinking about and working on. How, in your experience, has the fashion industry done when it comes to diversity, equity, inclusion? I can't even imagine a bigger question. Right. I mean, I think first we'd have to define what diversity, equity, and inclusion means, right? Because it means a lot of different things to a lot of different people, which I read about a lot in my comment section.

1:18But I think for me, it's about this idea of creating a diverse meritocracy, right? Making sure there are a lot of different voices that are represented in a room, in a company, in the world, in seats of power, and in, like, cultural archives. That's kind of what I think about a lot. And I think historically fashion's done a pretty bad job, especially at, like, first-person narration from people of color. And so five years ago, you launched the 15 % pledge to begin addressing some of these issues. There are people who are listening to this podcast, regular listeners who may not know what the 15 % pledge is.

1:58Can you tell us? Yeah, sure. So, you know, obviously, I'm an accessories designer. I've had a company called Brother Bellies, and I've always been very outspoken about different political issues. And in the wake of George Floyd's murder, I was getting a lot of calls and texts from different people in the industry, and not just fashion, just major retailers sort of across America. and I think for me, Nicole, my mom always taught me that people should do the thing that they do best in service of those who've been historically excluded. Also, if we take ourselves back, small business in America was getting annihilated during the pandemic, right?

2:37They were expecting 44 % of Black-owned businesses were going to close, which was basically double the national average. 90 % of Black-owned businesses didn't get access to the first round of PPP money, so they really needed help. So when I thought about that as it not related to a major retailer. I thought, okay, they're really good at selling product. And so I said, look, Black people are almost 15 % of the population. Major retailers should consider committing 15 % of their shelf space to Black-owned businesses. And the woman I was talking to was like, this is never going to happen. And I was like, okay, cool.

3:09Let's get off the phone. And I sat down afterwards and I thought about it. And I thought about the impact it would have on the American economic landscape, you know, if major retailers started committing in that way and how it would change things even in private equity and venture capital and with big banks, right? Because they would be looking at businesses of color and actually see growth opportunity for the very first time instead of seeing someone that was non-recognizable as a successful founder because they haven't necessarily seen that. And so I, you know, sat down and wrote out the idea in the notes section of my phone, which is probably where your most brilliant ideas live as well.

3:45and then I screenshot it and I posted it to Instagram an hour later and I tagged a bunch of retailers which for me is just a horrendous thing to do because I don't I'm not really someone who likes to be that confrontational on social media even though maybe people think otherwise but you don't really do that you don't like tag people and so take us back to that moment what was the immediate reaction to it and then what was some of the what were the earliest impacts well for me By the way, I was just like, this is a fantastic idea because not only is it the right thing to do, it's going to be good business.

4:19And what I know about corporations is if they can't track it, they can't do it. Right. So we're taking a really emotionally fraught situation and putting metrics to it. So I think that's why people understood the pledge because it was something they could take to their board. Right. And so I posted it on a Saturday. Monday at noon, we launched a petition. I think like Tuesday we had maybe 100 ,000 signatures. On Wednesday, I started working to make it a nonprofit. And by day 10, Sephora became the first major corporation to commit to the 15 % pledge. So it moved fast. It moved really fast. I think in the first like 24 months, we had like 25 pledge takers.

5:00They all signed multi-year contracts. Nordstrom, for example, signed a 10-year contract with us. It's signed by Pete Nordstrom. So it really kind of has to start at the top. Everyone has to be bought in. And it's about not just like checking a box and, you know, putting businesses of color on the shelves and being done. It's like, OK, how do we really make sure that we're casting a super broad lens and looking at all the brands that could make sense, not just the brands that like come across our desk because, you know, they're already owned by Estee Lauder or they are someone that worked there or whatever.

5:35So you have all these huge corporations or a significant number of corporations signing on. What are some of the first things or the most meaningful things you heard from these small business owners once they had been, you know, signed up to Nordstrom or signed up to Sephora? Do you remember what that was like? No, of course. I mean, one of the first things we did with Sephora was we worked with them on changing their accelerator program. So we really focused on women of color. and, you know, Danessa Myricks is a really wonderful example. She, you know, had this business for a decade and she was sold at all the beauty supply shops, you know, across the country.

6:12And then when she went through the accelerator program, Sephora decided to put her onto the shelves and the business just blew up. I mean, customers were so excited. It's always sold out. Her business has grown exponentially. Her whole entire life has changed. And I don't think there's anyone out there that can look at Danessa or look at her products or talk to professional makeup artists who would think that she isn't one of the most brilliant product designers and makeup artists of our time. So I think it's been really fantastic. We put over 800 black-owned brands onto the shelves of our pledge takers.

6:43I think what I'd love for you to dig into is the work of the organization. You said you worked with Sephora on this accelerator. So, you know, coming up with this concept, it's not like the concept is, you know, comes to you and you get people to sign up and the work is done. Yeah. I mean, there is like a lot of. There's real hell in between. Yes. Yeah. I mean, to be completely frank with you, like summer of 2020, at the end of the night I was puking mostly because it's really hard. It's a lot of emotional labor. It's like a 24-hour day. Yeah. 2020 was really hard. 2021 was really hard. The end of 2024 was really disappointing.

7:21And 2025 has been a shit show. And, you know, look, it's I've had to take a huge portion of my life and change how I spend my time. You know, I think I've felt lucky to do that because I've had enough privilege that's allowed me to because I've been successful with Brother Valleys. And now I feel like I need to use that privilege and try to open the door for other people whenever I have the opportunity to. You know, I started Brother Valley's with$3 ,500 at the Hester Street flea market. So, you know, I know what it's like to be a founder and just put all of your dreams on the line and get a shot, you know.

7:59And this year we're also giving out over a million dollars in grants, which is great, you know. But there's still so much more work to be done. And to be honest, it's really taxing work. You know, I'm lucky because I think there's about 12 other people that work at the Pledge now. So that's been great. Do you ever sort of sit back and feel like, gosh, we've come a long way? It's been five years? Or is it all still so much I want to do? I mean, ideas are great, but execution is everything, you know? And I think, like, I feel a tremendous amount of responsibility to see through this thesis, right?

8:38Because if it were to fail, then the narrative becomes, oh, actually, you know, DEI was a horrible thing. giving founders of color opportunities isn't necessary. We shouldn't go out of our way. Like all of these things that a lot of Republicans are saying right now, right? But for me, it's did these and do these opportunities to give everyone sort of a more equal starting line in the race. Like, does it bear fruit? And I think, you know, it's hard to see that instantly, right? It takes time to prove that out. I really do believe that we're proving that out. And that part I feel really good about.

9:21Can you give us some more examples of how it's being proven out? Are there other success stories that stand out to you? Yeah, sure. I mean, Topicals is a great one, right? Like she was also in the first Accelerator class. It's a beauty brand for those who don't know. And she went on and got onto the shelves of Sephora pretty quickly. She ended up being one of the top five fastest growing skincare brands at Sephora. she raised her series a at a 95 million dollar valuation she's 26 years old you know prior to 2017 only 36 black women had ever raised more than a million dollars in venture capital and i think you know that's the other thing that we don't talk about we don't talk about access to capital that much in fashion either it's sort of like this taboo thing like people they like to talk about the art they don't necessarily like to talk about the money.

10:13But the two, unfortunately, are really intertwined. And so access to capital has been a big issue with what we do as well. I mean, both of us are on the CFDA Vogue Fashion Fund, and we sort of get that at the ground level, right? That creativity, if you don't have the capital, just doesn't work. Yeah. I mean, look, and sometimes it's like trial by fire, right? Like, I remember when I was younger, I'd be sitting in a workshop in Kenya, and it's like, okay, I have beads, I have leather, I have like what else is in the neighborhood? How can I put something together? And sometimes you get things that are really brilliant, but that doesn't take into consideration like, you know, the fact that like I got an eviction letter in my apartment when I was in the fashion fund, right?

10:59And so that kind of stress when you're competing is also very real. So it's not just about what you're able to do creatively. It's about what you're able to do in your life, your headspace, all of that jazz. And then can you seize an opportunity? You know, like I wrote in my book about what happened when I, you know, was growing the business after I won. And I had gotten this purchase order from Net-A-Porter actually that was Net 30. And it was the very first Net 30 when we got. And I ended up, you know, taking a loan from someone that ended up being like really horrible, horrible, horrible, horrible.

11:33Tell us what Net 30 is for the not business types here. Yeah, that means, so if I recall correctly, I think our purchase order was maybe like$200 ,000, right? And so they gave me an order of$200 ,000 worth of shoes, and then I have to make$200 ,000 worth of shoes and deliver it to them, and then I only get paid 30 days after they've received it. So there's a big gap. It's like, how do you pay for that? And when we talk about lack of access to capital for entrepreneurs, right, it's like if you get a purchase order from someone, How do you pay for it? Because the stores aren't doing that anymore.

12:07They're not giving you deposits so much anymore. So. Right. And I mean, that is like a backdrop that is really making it challenging for emerging designers in fashion right now. So it would make the 15 percent pledge even more important. But coupled with that, there are new headwinds, right? The current administration, the current U.S. administration really has turned DEI, this term, and these efforts into a bad word, sort of. How are you facing that with your colleagues at the 15 % pledge? I think we've been really lucky that none of the businesses that we work with at the pledge have backed out, which is great because I know, you know, Target, like Home Depot, all these people.

12:59are making their announcements. They're not doing it anymore. And I think with Target, we've really seen how badly they've been impacted financially, right? I think, you know, look, we're a nonprofit. So I think the fundraising climate's really hard because I think what this administration has done really well is sort of attack everything all at once. So traditionally, you know, there's certain philanthropists that you might go to or the public, but it's like, look, when everything is being attacked, even as individual consumers, we don't even know what to do. It's like we become paralyzed, right?

13:32So we don't know who to give to. We don't know really what to do at all. So I think that part's been really hard because as hard as it is to fundraise for, you know, an LLC, fundraising for a nonprofit where someone gets really nothing in return, you know, is really challenging. And then also we try to give out so much money in grants as well because I think for me having gone through the CFDA Vogue Fashion Fund I know how important it was when I got that$300 ,000 you know I really wouldn't be here today I don't think if it weren't for that you know and I think it's a responsibility to pay it forward as well and oftentimes when we see women empowered I think we also see that they pay it forward as well but it's hard, Nicole.

14:16It's been hell. When you have individuals who come to you and ask you how, I want to do better. How can I do better? I need to be educated. Where do you point them? What do you tell them to do? I just tell them to really shop in alignment with what their own value set is and with the world that they want to see, right? And if it's not shopping, maybe it's even scrolling, right? It's like, are you just scrolling a bunch of like weird Kardashian content and then talking about how much you hate the Kardashians. Well, if you're scrolling the content, like you're empowering the Kardashians, you know?

14:50So it's whatever, pick your poison, but just like be thorough with, okay, am I not doing this, right? Or am I doing this? And if you are doing this, then you have to acknowledge that you're part of the problem. So just like try to be the best version of yourself. Like, are you gonna mess up? Sometimes probably, you know, I mess up all the time. I've been adding a lot of national parks and - Oh, that's nice. Okay. This new account called Galaxies. It's not a new account. New to me called Galaxies. And I'm learning about space. And it's just like a good reprieve from the hellscape. So that's new.

15:25It's a new thing for you. That's like me with my harp playing. I've been playing the harp for the past year. Wow. And are you having lessons or are you teaching yourself? No, I have to have lessons. Wow, that's incredible. Yeah, twice a week. It's a beautiful instrument. I agree. More with Aurora James after the break.

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16:24Okay, so some companies have rebranded their DEI efforts in an attempt to be less controversial. They are calling DEI inclusion and belonging. What are your thoughts on this idea of DEI being for everyone as opposed to serving historically disadvantaged groups? being for everyone? Like, they're literally just saying it's for everyone? Okay, cute. I mean, whatever you want, whatever you want to, whatever. You know what I mean? Like, look, I, and I mean this from the bottom of my heart, I'm a huge believer in small business in America, okay? Not just, like, as a political slogan, but because I believe that that is how people can access generational wealth, break out of the cycle of poverty, support their community.

17:15If certain people or organizations are more primed to help certain groups of people, I think that's fantastic. We all have to bind together to help each other to support small business. So if you want to call it whatever you want to call it, as long as you're doing your part to support people, everyday people being able to support themselves and follow their dreams, then I'm all for it. You're sort of saying this, that there is a strong business case for DEI. And you've mentioned this over the years, but a diverse workplace is a major positive factor in a company's success. Statistically. Explain why.

17:55How do the statistics bear that out? Why? I mean, it's sort of like, would you trust four guys in a room to, like, choose the best tampons? You know? So it's just like, no. Right. So it's you need diverse points of view in the room. When people see campaigns, sometimes they'll be like, how did this happen? It's like, no, it happened exactly how you think it happened. Right. Right. And there's so many different consumers in the room. We just need representation. It just makes things better. Have you ever seen like, you know, and we say it sometimes like, oh, that designer maybe needs a different stylist.

18:34Right? There's a lot of things like, oh, who curated that? You know, these are different ways to say like we need more diversity in the room. Also, because sometimes without it, it's really boring. A few years ago, there was a huge support for diversity in the industry. We had Virgil getting the big job at Vuitton. we have just come through a humongous new raft of designer appointments, and it feels as if efforts towards diversity are rolling back a little. You know, we've lost women creative directors. Men have gotten those jobs, for instance. When you look at the fashion industry now, Do you see, like, red lights flashing?

19:22I mean, I'll say for my part, I mean, we just sat through a couple of hours of judging of the CFDA Vogue Fashion Fund. And to me, it feels like possibly the most diverse and inclusive group of designers we've ever chosen. I think it's extremely diverse. I think, though, that the majority of those designers, like, are not represented in the closets of anyone in that room. so i think sometimes read oftentimes diversity can be this like sort of novel thing that we feel like is important to have but it's not necessarily what we're investing in you know and and and that that then ends up being what we see in some of these appointments and stuff as well right i think Like, yeah, fashion has a long way to go.

20:21I mean, what I worry about is just, because I love fashion so much, I truly do from the bottom of my heart, and I don't mean just clothes. I mean fashion. I worry that it's losing out in relevancy in general. You mean that people want to spend their money on other things, like travel or experiences or— People are spending their money on TikTok shops and Shein, you know? because they're being communicated to so well by TikTok or... Yeah, so well just by the amount of content that's out there, right? It's like when I was producing four collections a year for Brother Bellies, that's maybe like 120 SKUs a year.

21:06Zara, for example, was doing 35 ,000 SKUs a year. Shan does over 1 million SKUs a year. They're just cranking shit out. Right. You know, and I don't know that the younger generations really see that much of a value in fashion. It's hard. I mean. Well, they're very hungry, right? Yes. They like that sort of the acquisition buzz that you get. I mean, my son, for example, shops vintage all the time. Yes. And he's going every weekend and he likes that, the sensation of getting something new. But vintage is what? I mean, that has a story, right? And I'm like a very ferocious vintage shopper as well.

21:55I pretty much go every Sunday to a different flea market. And yeah, I mean, to me, look, my mom raised me with this Nigerian proverb, until the lion has a historian, the hunter will always be the hero. And my mom was adopted at birth and she didn't know her ethnic background. And so we would spend a lot of time learning about different ethnicities through fashion and learning about different cultures through fashion. And she would say, a lot of women's stories are kept in unexpected archives. And a lot of the time that means fashion. and I think for me the preservation of our individual stories and humanities as it's expressed through fashion is really important and I think similarly with Brother Vellies that's part of the reason why I've struggled so much in the past few years with designing new collections all the time because I just can't do it I'm so hung up on like the original desert boot the original Vellie and I think I'm so fraught with the appetite of consumer culture and fast fashion, right?

23:10And generally our, like, celebration of it, that to me, like, adding more things into the world right now that aren't historically significant feels challenging.

23:30We'll be back after a quick break.

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24:24So you are shopping a lot of vintage at the moment. Is that a fair? Yeah, yeah. Like, how do you know you want something when you see it? Are you interested in specific eras or specific designers, or it's just a feeling you get? It's just a feeling. But, you know, I'm really, I love furniture. Clothes are hard at a flea market. There's certain vendors that, like, appreciate silk, but you're really going to find a lot of polyester. You know? Yes. But you just got to keep looking. You got to keep searching for those gems. Yeah. And I always find them. Do you think people are buying more vintage in order to start divesting from the traditional fashion ecosystem?

25:01Yes, I do. I don't know if they're consciously trying to divest, but I think that people maybe are interested in things with stories. I do think that that will continue. And I think that people are starting to feel icky sometimes by just consuming all the time. Even my stepson has been, like, kind of interested and vintage in a way that, like, maybe it wasn't always. Uh-huh. All right. Taking it back to the beginning of our conversation, it's the five-year-ish anniversary of the 15 % pledge. Where do you want to take it from here? What is your vision for the future? Well, Nicole, I was really hoping we would be in a totally different place slash administration, you know.

25:48So there was a world where I was like, maybe 2025, like, you know, we will just like be irrelevant because everyone will be at 15%.