Cindy Crawford and Kaia Gerber on Co-Modeling, Style-Inspo, and Mother’s Day Plans

27:26And that really inspired me. And then when I was starting out, all the girls that I started out with, all these women that I was surrounded by had the most incredible work ethic and came from very different scenarios than I did and very different upbringings than I did and didn't have the foundation that I did, just like my mom didn't have that kind of foundation. So I was surrounded by women with like the most incredible ambition and work ethic. And I just, you know, really like in trying to honor them and learning from them, had the utmost respect for them. And like, really, I feel like any ambition that I had was like through these women that I was surrounded by, because I obviously came from a very different upbringing and very different circumstances as a lot of the women that I was working with.

28:12Was that Versace kids moment, the moment, Cindy, when you thought, oh, Kaya might be headed in this direction? Or was there a different moment in her childhood. The thing about Kaya is she's, like, we always, we called Kaya, like, almost like, in world peace. Because even when she was five years old, you would ask, like, you know, how families talk at dinner tables, and we'd ask some questions, and Kaya would always be, like, the most perfect, politically correct, beautiful, well-thought-out answer. I'm like, if nothing else, she's going to be a pageant queen. And then when she did do that shoot and it was with, you know, obviously Donatella and Matt and Marcus.

28:52And, you know, I think every mother thinks their own kid is beautiful. But then, you know, seeing your child through someone else's eyes, especially, you know, look, fashion people, they tell it like it is and they can be a little snobby. and they were like oohing and aahing over her and and you you felt comfortable like you you brought it in front of the camera and then I think you didn't do anything for a while yeah I mean I was still in school I was 10 when I did that and um and then it was just fun like it was just fun jobs here and there for until I was 16 it was not a full-time job in any kind of way um it wasn't until I was old enough to do shows at 16 that it was more of a full-time job but um no it was it It was always fun.

29:36You know, I think that's I feel so appreciative. Like I didn't have a mother who was living vicariously through me because she'd done it all. And so there was never any pressure. And like I have so much empathy for people who either had, you know, a family member that was living vicariously through them or who they were supporting a family that they were supporting. so I just didn't have that pressure and like therefore it was able to be fun for me in a way that I don't think it was for some of the other women and so like I'm very very grateful for that opportunity yeah I think I think though that you not that you put pressure on yourself but the way that I see you is whatever you do you give it 110 you're not sloppy you know you show up you only in the fun ways no but you want to do a good job you want you know you knew exactly what you wanted to do, which photographers you wanted to work with.

30:26I mean, it was such a different world. Like when I started modeling, there was no internet, right? So you didn't, I didn't know. I barely knew. I knew Teen Vogue. I knew Phoebe Cates, you know, like that was my, the model that I knew. And, you know, she'd been in Fast Times at Ridgemont High or whatever. Like I didn't have the references. I had to learn. I didn't even know designers really until I started modeling. And the thing that's great about this generation is if they're told they're going to work with Stephen Meisel, they can go online and they can look at Stephen's work and they can show up ready and to understand Stephen's aesthetic and his vocabulary or whatever.

31:05And I think Kai is the type of model that did that. Like she knew, oh, if you're working with a Peter Lindbergh, it can be a little more moody or whatever. I'm probably saying all the photographers are my generation. No, but these are all people I've worked with, which is very cool. But yeah, I feel like you're a great student. Like I honestly see my mother as a student forever, an internal student of life. And I very much think I get that curiosity and that sort of like scholar mindset from you. And so if it wasn't my schoolwork, then I made it modeling or acting or whatever it might be reading.

31:42Like, I just love being a student. And so when it came to working with these people, like, I got to learn so much about all of these people, not just, you know, photographers, but designers. And there's so much media out there on the fashion world. And we're really, I feel like it's so inclusive now of everyone that there's, like, endless information about all of these people that I got to work with, which was, it's just been really fun learning people in that way. Yeah. Hi, I'm Rebecca Ford, senior awards correspondent at Vanity Fair and co-host of Little Gold Men. Oscar season is upon us. Little Gold Men takes you behind the scenes of the race for the biggest prize in Hollywood.

32:22There's a hundred wrestlers in the room, but only one can be Oscar nominated. Whether you're a movie lover or an industry buff, Little Gold Men from Vanity Fair has everything you need to know about this year's Oscar race. Follow and listen to Little Gold Men wherever you get your podcasts.

32:43I did want to ask you about fashion. I loved recently, Kaya, you wore sort of like a recreation of a dress that Cindy, you wore to the 93 Oscars. It was an Hervé Legere. Very fab. So what's kind of your viewpoint on fashion? Is there a lot of sharing going on in the wardrobe? Do you guys get inspired by each other? I'm probably more inspired than you are. I mean, I'm inspired by you more than you probably are for me. No, I think, like, I trust Kaya's opinion because I also don't want to be one of those moms that, like, gets stuck in, like, well, this was what's in style in the 90s, so I better still, you know.

33:20But you also are good about not being one of those moms who's, like, trying to be too, you know, trendy. No, I don't want to try too hard. I would never want to be like, I'm trying to compete with my 23-year-old daughter. But at the same time, I want to reimagine fashion. I mean, I think obviously, I mean, we have different but similar, I guess. Yeah. I don't know. I think I didn't see you go through phases. You've had your style pretty dialed in for a while. Well, yeah. You saw me go through phases that some wish I hadn't gone through. but I do think like the older I get the more I go into kind of your territory which is just like classic and you know the nice thing about like looking quite similar to a parent is if I want to know if like a hair makeup look will look good on me I literally will look up pictures of my mom and be like like because I'm like if it if I think it looks good on her like most times it I can pull it off as well well don't you use it for references sometimes yeah and by the way like hair and makeup people love that because they're like oh we can see what it will look like basically on your face so i oftentimes do use you as references and i i i take stuff from your closet like yeah well recently like we had an event or it was a it was a private event but but kaya found an old alaya dress that i had which she was i mean hiding from me like she was really hiding but i actually have everything photographed and in a book um now the book is hidden No, just kidding.

34:52For a good reason, because have you seen that Aliyah dress? Yeah. But I, you know, I love, nothing makes me happier. Like if she wants to wear something that I wore 30 years ago, like what bigger compliment is that? Is there anything off limits, Cindy, that you would never have her? No. Absolutely not. No. Wedding dress, maybe. No. Really? I would love for you to wear my wedding dress. It's so cute. It's a little John Galliano off the rack. Very cute. The coolest wedding dress ever. I had that one for a while. So, yeah, you could have that for the night before or something. I love that. Yeah. Yeah.

35:26No, I would be – I mean, what am I doing with – I actually was not – there's a lot more that I should have saved. But, you know, I was young. I was Kaya's age in a small apartment in New York. Like, I got rid of stuff that I – like, kicking myself. But at a certain point, I realized, like, I should archive some of this stuff and save it. And I'm happy I did. And I would love for Kaya to wear anything she wants. But I also was like I just had a T-shirt that I was able to do for the Vogue auction. I had a Christian Dior T-shirt. Oh, yes. And one of my Oscar dresses was amazing. Well, don't auction off too much.

36:03I know. I should have bought the dress. I should have actually just donated it and then bought it back. No, I am. But I do like her archives are so good. And I actually feel quite guilty for should I have children in the future? Like so much of what the way that it works now is like a lot of it is borrowed. And you're not really like I don't have an archive like yours. I'm starting to build it. I have a lot of Sarah Burton because Sarah is so lovely and gives you everything that you wear, which is pretty rare, I will say, from a designer. And so I have an archive of like really incredible pieces that she's made and now Givenchy pieces.

36:41But yeah, it's like I hope that I have incredible pieces too. And I actually like I bought a vintage Alaya coat the other day, which I'm sure my mom has basically a similar one. Well, you wore mine that first fashion season. And then you took it back and I haven't seen it since. But yes, I'm trying to build out something of an archive. Is there any – Cindy, you said regrets of giving. Is there anything in your mind that you still think about today, the one that got away? Well, yes, my red Oscar dress is one. Who has it? I don't know. Someone bought it, and it did raise a lot of money. And then I – two dresses – well, I had my very first designer dress that I bought.

37:25I started modeling, and I saw in the back of a magazine – or in a magazine, there was a shot of a Calvin Klein dress from the back. It was backless dress, black sheath dress, backless. And I remember Arthur Elgort took the pictures. I didn't know Arthur at the time. And you know how you look in the back of the magazine and it says where to buy? And I tracked it down and I wore that to my prom. And it was the most inappropriate prom dress for where I went. Everyone else was wearing like frilly gunny sacks dresses. And I had like this Calvin Klein black sheath dress. And I just remember one of my teachers, like he didn't realize my back was open.

38:02And he put his arm on my back. And then he felt so uncomfortable. Like, you know, it was like he felt like he was being creepy or something. That dress, I don't know where it is. And then I had a Mugler dress, like a black, almost like a strapless, almost like a Marilyn Monroe dress. But it had like the little curly cues up here that I wore to the first kind of cocktail event I went to as a model in Chicago. And I haven't been able to – like it got lost in a mood. You're gutting me right now. I know. So those are two that I – they just went missing. yeah um that's tough and i wish i had them yeah and i had like a lot of alaya like but the leggings and stuff that they would just kind of get stretched out at a certain point like but it did it did hurt me to yeah well i mean kaya it's kind of incredible that you have your mom icon super model as a resource to really like ask for advice or tips it's ridiculous what would you say is sort of like the biggest lesson she's passed down to you about being in this crazy amazing industry it's so hard to choose just one um well one thing i will say about my mom is she's not like an advice giver she's not a yay i'm successful that's so you're not a let me tell you you know the way of the world kind of woman you're a lead by example kind of person so i think a lot of what i've attained from you is more so just through your actions and through watching the way that you navigate the worlds in a way that like makes me so proud to be your daughter and respect you so much and the amazing thing about having been in a career that like my mother has been in for so long I get to hear just like she talked about seeing me through other people's eyes like I get to hear stories about her from other people and they're always so positive about how kind she like from the moment I started working in this industry it's always how kind she was how smart she was, how well she navigated it, how funny you are, how on time she always was.

40:04And, uh, and so like that, I think was the most impactful was hearing how other people just told me how much, how adored you are. And like, I, I always adored you personally, but then to be in this world and hear about everyone and how much they respected you, I just had a whole new level of respect. So I think it was like, Oh, this is what I mean for the transcription. Her Mother's Day cards are like this, honestly. And they're so great. But it's, oh, thank you. It's really like, that's what it is. It's like, and I think a lot of her lessons were like, she's very, the one thing she's really a stickler on is being punctual.

40:39But I'm so grateful that she instilled that in me because I am now someone who values that so much. And especially if I'm meeting you somewhere, I am not late. I was going to say, like, even, you know, like kind of your, the advice that a parent would give a kid, my son, who's two years older than Kaya Presley. And he started a job. His very first job was working at a smoothie shop in Malibu. And I gave him the same advice that I gave Kaya when she started working, which is be on time, be prepared, and stay off your phone. And, like, get to – Crucially. And we – you're – I was going to say you're not.

41:16You are worse than I am on the phone, Missy. No, like doing hair and makeup is what I mean. I'm not on my phone doing hair and makeup. I'm actually – I don't know. I'm teasing you. That was kind of like a joke. But we can run the tapes back about who's on their phone during hair and makeup, Missy. Really? Oh, maybe I don't even know. But the thing is, what I was trying to tell both my kids is like, you might meet your you don't know your best friend might be might be the person, you know, that's doing your makeup or doing your hair. I mean, because I have found that in the fashion industry, I've met so many of my friends.

41:47Not and it's not necessarily the people who think it's a lot of time. It's the hair and makeup people because you spend the most quality time with them. And, you know, sometimes, and I wrote about this in my book, like, you know, you kind of come in and not every day do you feel like Kaia Gerber or Cindy Crawford, right? And so sometimes you like slink into the studio with your sunglasses on. You're trying to just like get in that makeup chair. And then the hair and makeup job, their team is, you know, to transform you into whatever version of you that, you know, the photographer and everybody wants.

42:20and part of that is yes their skills doing hair and makeup it makeup but part of it is also them emotionally helping you become that thing so like you know you might have had a fight with your boyfriend or uh you know whatever you might have a pimple and you feel really self-conscious of it they like talk you through it and they help you if you let them yeah if you let them in and if and and you know and if they're also like open and I think that we both pick up on that and And yeah, so many of the people I'm the closest to are those people, the hair and the makeup. And a lot of them like were assisting when I was starting out.

42:57And I've now gotten to see, you know, become the main hair and makeup person on a job. And that's like so much fun for me because you really do grow with people in this industry if you're open to that. And like it can be all about human connection if you let it. And I think I saw you do that and all your close friends were people you knew from this job. And, yeah, I've tried to kind of do the same, I guess. You guys have such a lovely, close, clearly loving relationship. Cindy, I'm also a mom, and I always want to ask other moms who have good relationships with their daughters what makes it work and how do you foster the closeness?

43:34What are your guiding principles on that front? That actually might be a more interesting question for Kaya because she would be able to tell you what works and what doesn't work. But I, my mother is fortunately still with us. I'm very close to her. I'm one of three girls. And I think, like Kaya said, that I'm not a big one to give advice. And I think I would just refine that to say I'm not one to give unasked advice, especially. I try. And I got that from my own mother. She's like, I really try not to give advice unless you ask. But if you ask, I'm going to tell you the truth. And I think that both my kids know if they ask or if I say, do you want to hear my opinion?

44:18They know if, you know, they know they're going to, well, first of all, if I ask, they probably know it's not going to be, the opinion is probably going to be contrary to what you're thinking, right? But I try to at least be invited to give my opinion. And my mother has another great phrase that I think is genius. She says, show up, shut up, and wear beige. Yeah. She's like, sometimes that's your role as a mother, especially as your children are blossoming and coming into themselves. You have to take a step back and let them blossom, and you just show up, shut up, and wear beige. By the way, you in beige, you're still Cindy Crawford, even if you're wearing beige.

45:01Cindy Crawford in beige. I like that. I'm going to take that to heart. Yeah, me too. I always have felt like I could come to you without judgment. Like even if it was advice or an opinion that I didn't want to hear, it was never infected with judgment. It was always from a place of love. So I think like having a relationship where I really felt like there wasn't anything I could tell you that would make you think differently of me as a human being. and then I also think like you let me you still let me make mistakes and I can imagine I mean I feel it with my friends like it's so hard to watch someone you love do something that you know is going to hurt them or that you know is destructive to them or that you know is not you know quote unquote the right thing their highest yeah but you have to let them do it and like I think so much of it is it's not about breaking the fall.

45:59It's about being there after the fall to just like scraping it up. Yeah. Scraping you off the floor kind of thing. And, or just like sit on the floor and cry with me, you know? And I think like, like I remember my first like massive heartbreak breakup was like, it was during the pandemic and you were there and you didn't like sit me down and be like, let's talk about heartbreak. Like we watched Terms of Endearment and we just both sobbed on the couch and like we didn't, I don't even think we really talked about the breakup. It was just like, there's someone going through it with me. And I think like that's such a great example of the way that you mother is like, I'm not, just because I've gone through it doesn't make me above you.

46:43It's like, I'll go through it again with you. That's beautiful. Humility is underappreciated maternal virtue, I'm realizing. Yeah. But a good one. Well, I think about like this generation, like, you know, because I grew up, you know, I graduated from high school in 84. I didn't have a cell phone. My mom let me go to Japan for two months while I was 17 years old. I talked to her one time. And I think she was parenting from a place of no news is good news. And I think that's flipped now. And like we're so tethered to our children through their phones. And, oh, my gosh, she didn't text me back in five minutes.

47:20She must be in an accident. And I really try to remember, wait, my mother let me, like, we had a curfew. And as long as we were home by curfew, no questions asked. You know, it was like, okay, now if you were late, that's another story. You got grounded. One week, every minute you were late. You never grounded us, I don't think. Yeah, I was, like, you guys didn't really, we didn't have those kind of rules. And also you guys were pretty good at the time where I think grounding would have been effective. you know if I could have grounded you at other times but you were an adult she'd ground me today if she could love that yeah well speaking of other famous mother-daughter duos um Lisa Rinna recently said that she cried when she saw her daughter Amelia Gray walking for Goatier um she's saying it was a dream come true for both her and her like for both of them um so has there been any pinch me moments for you that sort of stand out as Kaya's mom and maybe for you kaya personally i've ever cried seeing me no but by the way that wouldn't be the thing like what the things like i'm proud of her for her book club because she started a book club out of boredom during the pandemic and has turned it into something that's getting well not just young people but especially young people excited about reading books and talking about books but also oh, you're a smart businesswoman, like figured out how to monetize it and create opportunity for yourself with it.

48:52So I think the things where I'm most proud of Kaya, not that I'm not proud of her for modeling. Of course I am and how she handles herself. And I'm probably most proud when I get good feedback like, oh, we worked with Kaya and she was on time and she's so polite. And I'm like, thank you. You know, I know she can do – I know that you can do the work as a model. So it's more about who she is as a person. I think that I'm most proud of. Like one of the best actual and some of the only actual modeling advice that you ever gave me was just try to have a thought or a feeling behind whatever the look is.

49:27And I still do that. So it's like if I am supposed to be smiling, like I genuinely think of something that makes me smile. And it's like it's a secret with myself. I don't tell anyone what it is. Sometimes it's like something that's making me laugh and I don't have to share it. But I do appreciate that advice, and it's been very valuable. You guys both split your time between New York City and Malibu. Do you have a perfect New York City afternoon together that you can share with us? Ooh. You took me bra shopping that one time, and it's still the only bras that I have. I took her to, like, a proper bra fit.

50:00You know, like— Yeah. There's some old institutions. But they sort of just, like, cup and— I think it's mandatory that they do that. Yeah. Yeah. They fill you up and they give you welcome to adulthood, honey. I think I would say more, this is what my perfect day would be, to go to theater and then to go for dinner afterwards. Or we'll go to a workout class together. I think we're both, when we're in New York, we're usually working or at least me. I spend less time there now than Kaeda, so I'm usually in and out. But to do something like cultural, like something New York-y that I can do in Malibu, that's what I really, you know, there's so many great restaurants.

50:42So it's always seeing people and trying to do like go to a museum or walk through Central Park when, you know, the trees are blooming or see some theater. Yeah. Well, the weather is glorious here right now. So you guys should come and have a New York day. Okay. And a lot of good plays. A lot of good plays right now. There's so much good theater. I was looking at the announcements of the nominations yesterday, and it was like, there's so much I haven't seen that I really, I want to get back while everything's still there. Because, I mean, every trip to New York that I go to, I see as much as I possibly can.

51:16I think I saw like three plays when I was there for four days. I was going to say, you were only there four days. So, yes, there's so much good stuff. So, I hope I get back in May to see a lot of it. Yeah. We're good theater partners. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you took me to Wicked so many times, and I thank you for that. Kaya, you're such a huge reader. We've talked about the book club already. I always look at it to see what you recommend because you have such excellent taste. Thank you. Do you guys share recommendations? Do you have the same book, similar tastes? We have different tastes at this moment in our lives, but I credit my mom so much to my love of reading.

51:55Like she reads just as much as I do, if not more, and probably the same amount. Yeah, probably. And like growing up, you know, she was reading Of Mice and Men to me when I was seven or something. Wow. And I remember doing my book report on that in second grade and the teachers were all like, what's wrong with you? And I was like so much. I feel like Presley might have had it as an assignment. Because I think my brother, who's two years older, had it as an assignment, and I was just interested in it. And so I think my love of literature, like, really was sparked by you. And we share recommendations sometimes, but I feel like the way you explain it is, like, when you were my age, you were also into the more kind of heady, philosophical things.

52:42Questioning, you know, definitely I did that in my 20s. And now you're more into the, like, escapism stuff a little more. I mean, not full, and I never know if I'm— Jodi Picoult. I like Kristen Hanna. I like a lot of women authors. I like historical fiction. You know, actually, I just read Christy Brinkley's autobiography, and it was fun. And I actually, you know, she's one generation before me, but I still learned, and I knew her, obviously, and watched her, but I learned so much. So I do like biographies. There's a lot of intersection. Like, I'm glad my mom died, the Jeanette McCurdy book. Like, you loved that.

53:23I read that and I knew she would love that. In Memoriam, the Alice Wynn about World War I. I read, like, yeah, so there's a lot of intersection. And then there's sometimes ones where I'm like, this is a little crazy to recommend her. But she always reads my recommendations, which like to me, that is a love language. And like I show my love by curating book lists for people or giving them books. And when they read them, that is like a sign of like I love you too for me. I can't tell you like if someone never did anything else to show me love, like that would be enough. And every time I recommend you a book, you read it.

53:59And so even like Milk Fed, which was a pretty intense one and like a queer novel you read and like queer kind of erotic novel. And you read it. I would say. And did you? I think you enjoyed it. Love it. Well, thank you so much for joining us. This was so fun chatting with you guys. Happy early Mother's Day, Sydney. Thank you. Thanks. I'm going to start planning something. Thanks for reminding me. Just replay this. You got to just pull some clips out of this interview. Send me the inscription so I can write a card. Highlight's real. Thank you both very much. Thank you so much.

54:38And that's it for the show.

54:50The Runthrough is produced by Chelsea Daniel, Alex De Palma, and Joanna Solitaroff. It's engineered by Jake Loomis and James Yost. It is mixed by Mike Kutchman. Stephanie Karaoke is our executive producer, and Chris Bannon is Condé Nast's head of Global Audio.