Colman Domingo on Co-Chairing the Met Gala, Fashion, and Falling in Love

0:05Happy Monday, everyone. We have a very special episode to kick off your week with the one, the only Coleman Domingo. Chama, have you gotten to spend any time with Coleman? Very briefly crossed him on the dance floor at the BAFTA. Oh! Excuse me? Kind of film and fashion party in London for the BAFTAs. Yeah. Well, he couldn't have been more charming. He was wearing this cerulean blue Jacquemus blouse that was unbuttoned down past his sternum and he just twinkled and charmed us. his spread in the magazine and cover is so beautiful, photographed by I.K. Uday and styled by Max Ortega. Leah Faye Cooper, Vogue Style Director, and I got to chat with him about what it was like to work with I.K.

0:55and channel menswear of the past and celebration of this year's theme, superfine, tailoring Black style. It felt like a very reflective fashion spread because there were a lot of historical references, but also very modern, and the theme of it was the details make the man and you really see such beautiful attention to detail throughout. We also got to hear about his recent night at the theater with Anna Wintour, which I loved, and his beautiful love story, which truly our producers in the control room had tears in their eyes. Oh my God. So enjoy everyone. We'll be back tomorrow with another episode.

1:42Congratulations on being a Met Gala co-chair and for your cover, which will be released when this comes out. Yeah, we're so, so, so excited. So I actually had the pleasure of interviewing A$AP Rocky for this, and his grandmother was part of it. And she has quite a crush on you. Really? Yes. Oh, yeah? How old is his grandmother? That came up. Because I have, like, that's my jam right there. Okay. The ladies of a certain age, I'm in. She is of a certain age, and your name came up several times. So she is very excited that her grandson is going to be co-chairing alongside you. That's so great. That makes me feel great.

2:32Yes. So, okay, the theme this year is tailored for you, which is inspired by, of course, the Costume Institute's exhibit, Superfine, Tailoring Black Style, based on a book by guest curator Monica Miller. We are all obsessed with your fashion and really cannot think of a more perfect person to be a part of this. Can you tell us, when did these conversations initially start taking place? the conversations for the met gala co-chair happened in the fall of last year and i know that because i was in upstate new york and i was minding my business shooting uh this new series called the four seasons and um my publicist called and she says and this was it was a strange call to me she says hey do you have any time today because anna wentor would like to talk to you Oh.

3:24And we had a great conversation. It was the most beautiful invitation because she first prefaced it by saying, I'm not sure if you're interested in something like this or have time. And I thought, you have no idea who you're talking. Anything for Anna Wintour because of how she's been with the culture and how she's been really, you know, been such a champion of the Costume Institute. I can't wait to get on board. So we had this beautiful conversation and the beautiful invitations told me to think about it. Of course, I didn't have to think about it. I just thought, oh, no, no, no, I'm going to clear anything that I have going on the first Monday of May, and I'm going to do it.

4:01So that's where it came about. And then I didn't know, really, I really didn't know how much engagement that I would have. And I'm really happy to say it's more than just sort of a title that she's asked my opinion on, whether it's guest list, whether it's music, whether it's, you know, going through the Costume Institute boards with Monica, I feel like I've really been engaged and really been a part of it. So much so that I got a text last night and I got so giddy because, and I'll share this with you. Anna sent me a text and she says, checking, you know, how's filming going and how's your Met look?

4:39Question, question. I mean, what we all want to know. And it was time for me to reveal. I thought I was like, I need to reveal my Met look to her now. I think that's what the question marks are. and did you did you get a screenshot oh i hope we did i was like hello my friend blah blah blah want to see question mark the only thing missing is this and that and that the other and i sent her the look and i died with the response because i was just waiting and i was waiting for hours actually so i'm assuming she was somewhere and finally right before 9 47 before i went to bed had to go to bed early last night to get ready for you guys.

5:20I got, because I couldn't sleep, I was like, I'm not going to sleep until she texts me back. She says, work of art. Ah! I'm good, you guys. I'm going to be all right. Nailed it. I mean, yes. I said, okay, I'll take any notes from you, any notes. And we've been working, you know, me and Valentino, Alessandra and Michele have been working on this look with my stylist, Wayman and Micah, and we arrived at something that we think is really special and really fitting and really tailored just for me. Oh, we are so excited. I have to tell you, our entire team, when there's sort of a rite of passage at Vogue that even in a digital era, like when a shoot comes in, the art department prints it and Anna comes and looks at it on a high top table.

6:05And it's sort of like, what is everyone's reaction? And sometimes our reaction is different than Anna's reaction. The art department's reaction is different from the editorial team's reaction. And these photos came in and truly everyone who went and looked over them, it was just this. The reaction was swoon, swoon. I mean, but it's a gas. And you get a lot of credit for that. But I have to say, Ike Uday gets a lot because they are works of art. They are so beautiful. And our beloved Max Ortega was the fashion editor who is so talented. And I just am curious what that shoot day was like for you and sort of if you could, you know, set the scene.

6:43It was really awesome because we had to, I think I didn't understand at first the way IK would shoot me. It's wild because I work with all the zoom photographers and I thought, and especially I thought fashion. And so I know that I sort of lean into the clothes or how to sort of like sell clothes in a way as I've been doing campaigns and such. But I thought Vogue. And I think that the closest to Vogue shoot that I think I remember was Cedric Parker, you know, shooting her Vogue shoot in Second City. So I was doing way too much. I was like, this is that moment. I didn't realize he was doing more portraiture.

7:21And so our first run of shots, he was being very meticulous about where I moved my hands, how I was posed and things like that. And I'm an actor. I'm not a model. So I almost didn't understand the story by just being moved and manipulated in such ways. I didn't know what story I was in. And so we ran off the first shots But I know I had to do some rethinking. And I went back and we were changing clothes. And I think, oh, this is what it is. How do I find the life in me and the story in me by just standing somewhere and pose? And I talked to him. I said, OK, is there anything we could do? I said, because I said, I'm an actor.

8:01And I said, I just don't know. I don't feel as relaxed and as open. And as a storyteller, is there something we could just be playful? And then you find your lens as well. He says, oh, cool. That's interesting. Let's try that. Let's try that. I said, because I think you're going to get the best out of me if we work in that way just a little bit. And I'm trying to work within his constraints as well. And I also said, what is the story in this moment? What story am I telling? Actors, we just need to know that so we can really give something in our eyes. And what was the story? What did he say? I think the story was, he says, you're a gentleman, just breathe.

8:44This is, you know, we would talk about the story of like, you know, ancestors and family and how we're representing. And this is a moment here. And then I would help to define my own story as well. And I thought to bring in, I thought to bring in really my whole legacy and why I'm here and all the people who helped me get here and standing strong or standing in a pose for them. So once we started to do that, he started to light up. I started to light up. And then we did some when I was playful and free. And then even when we got to the cover shoot and we're setting up for that, and I thought, this is my cover shoot.

9:17What is it going to look like? And I was frustrated with the angle. I remember that much because we were going straight on. And I thought, oh, I don't know. Because I thought, if I'm walking by a news staff, how do I want to look at people? am I naturally like straight up looking at a person face to face I'm like nah I'm a little sly I love looking a little side eye or from the side in some way and so I said is okay if we if you go over here he said sure so we were we were playing together and then when we started to do they says oh I see I see because I know it would bring a sparkle out of me so it was really we really collaborated in a beautiful way and and I think we sort of like really have such a uh an artistic crush on each other that day.

10:01We were really digging how we were telling each other stories and we felt like we were cupped in the same cloth. And he would share some of his writing with me. And I'm like, who is this man? And the way he thinks about clothes and he is the epitome of a black dandy. And I just felt so inspired by him. And I feel like we could create universes together. Beautiful. So there's this through line of dandyism in the shoot, but there's also a really eclectic mix of fashion. You know, one of the looks looks kind of like an 18th century painting. Another one looks matador inspired. Can you tell us a bit about, you know, the fitting process and landing on the looks with Max, who styled?

10:43Yeah, when I went in there, I really, I was just, I met, it took my breath away. And I thought, I thought, whoa, are all the guys being dressed this way? I said, no, no, no, everyone's very specific. You're sort of the storyteller when it comes to period and costume. And I was like, oh, that makes sense because I'm an actor. And I said, I can lean into that. And I'm willing. I said, give me the biggest, boldest prints. Give me stockings. Give me tiny shoes. Whatever. I'm like, I will go restoration comedy. I will go, yeah, just something I did when I was there in the 1920s. So we leaned into that.

11:20And I don't know, everyone just got very excited about all the elements to relate that to all the accessories and the hats and the canes. I love that because, I don't know, I really felt like, you know, there's those moments when you feel like, and I felt that that day, I felt like, oh, this is, it's more than me. I'm representing so many different men throughout time. It's true, actually. When you mentioned the accessories and the canes, there was a member of our team who said that one of the driving mantras of the shoot was the details make the man. And And there's so many beautiful close-ups of a pocket watch, a ring, a bejeweled tie clip.

11:58And I have to say, on our team, we are always so excited when we're doing red carpet coverage for award shows. We can rely on Coleman for a great accessory, a wonderful brooch, an excellent detail. What's your personal philosophy on accessorizing? Oh, man, that's funny. I went out the other night somewhere and went to the Fashion Trust Awards. And we chose a couple of beautiful pieces, a necklace and some earrings. And they're gorgeous. But when we were leaving, I realized I didn't have a ring. And I don't know why. I feel like I felt naked for the first time. I thought, is that enough? Just the gorgeous statement jewels and all?

12:40And really, I didn't feel because I used my hands a lot. And I really felt naked. We got on the carpet. And honestly, I think that's why my hands are in my pockets. Oh, wow. because I felt like I had nothing to adorn my hands. And it was the first time I did that. And so I really, really, I started to still think about why, why am I uncomfortable with just my hands being bare? Maybe that's okay sometimes. And I really started to talk myself through it. I'm like, I don't know what that is, that I feel like I need to have something. But I do know that I know I like when someone's looking at you or the clothes or the story, that there's something to look at in every sort of frame in a way you know from when you turn around from behind i love the detail from behind i love when like i love it and like if i wear a mirror he always has a little a a gold a or something in the back which is kind of cool i feel like it's all these small details even the socks i look at everything my stylists know this we've collaborated on so many things women and micah and i'm very clear about like oh great great said that's wonderful now what about the socks yeah you know i stand your black socks the sock because when i cross my legs someone's going to see that yeah you know i'm like so i want to be clear about every single thing we're doing and in that um i i love that vogue shoot so much because it really was all these different beautiful accessories especially like a watch and i love to know i'm that person that wants to know the story behind the watch why was it done that way how much does it weigh, how many jewels are in that.

14:14Because I feel like I'm learning as well. I love talking to artisans in every single way. Because I think I'm fascinated with them and how do they make stuff like that? Because I feel like that's not a skill that I have. So I'm very interested in how people make hats or, you know, glasses or why. Yeah. You spoke with our colleague Marlee Marius for your cover story and talked a bit about getting to see Superfine, the exhibit and noticing a Black mannequin and said, I had never seen images like that. I always had to look for vision outside of myself. Can you speak a bit about that? When we went through the Costume Institute and we went through, first we went through the boards and just that part of the storytelling of understanding how throughout history, we've had to define ourselves with clothing and style.

15:07that that is just something, you know, like from whether when we were, you know, enslaved people and then eventually, you know, coming out of that and how we had to define ourselves in the world. I was, we were taking on a jargon throughout that. And I was just thinking, doing a deep dive. And then when we went out to see the clothing, I got really emotional and I, and I was trying to figure out why, because I wasn't in some emotional state or anything. I just saw these really dark, beautiful mannequins with wide noses and shiny, dark skin, lean and beautiful. And I think it's because of the mannequins.

15:47I thought there was something I'm like, have I? My brain was like, I haven't seen that before. And it was so many of them. And I thought, and they were all staring at me and their beauty, their aesthetics that may not be Eurocentric and they were so gorgeous. And I, and I got a little emotional. And so I asked him like, are these mannequins something that like, is it a thing? Oh no, these were made. These were created for us. And I thought, oh yeah, because I never, you know, I, I'm, I'm not like a avid shopper, but you know, I'm like, yeah, I go to Nordstrom's and Naaman's and yeah, I don't see that.

16:25I don't see me wearing something that I want to buy. I always have to look outside of myself and imagine myself. And maybe that's also been key to our survival and us as people of color to imagine ourselves in a situation. But the idea to actually imprint it and say, oh, that's me. That's a representation of me. I do wear those clothes. I can't afford that. I can have that style. It is accessible to me. It was very emotional. And I thought when I left there and I thought I just got the first sampling of what this costume institute exhibit's going to be. It's going to surprise people in ways that's unimaginable.

17:09It's not just about clothes. It's about how do we imagine and reimagine ourselves. And that's for all of us. I think, you know, when it comes to men, women, people of color, you know, because we have to sort through the world to find images of ourselves to say that we exist. and we exist in spaces that are not necessarily usually available to us. I mean, I think that's so powerful. And we had similar experiences when we all went to talk to Monica about the exhibit. And she's done such a wonderful job of making this. So, I mean, she's made her book come to life in a way that I think we're all really excited about.

17:52The Run-Through will be back in just a moment. Thank you.

18:24well-informed colleagues at The New Yorker. So join us every week on The New Yorker Radio Hour, wherever you listen to podcasts.

18:41And we're back. What was your parents' relationship to dressing and style? Did your, we're actually doing a really fun piece with sort of looking at family photos of Vogue staffers, the dandies in their lives. And it's been really fun to see pictures of people's grandfathers and uncles and sort of the dandies in our own world. And I'm curious if your parents sort of had a flair for fashion. Well, my mother and my stepfather definitely had a flair for fashion. Very different. My mother would have a very strong wig game. In my job as a kid, I remember I would like watch my mother putting on her makeup sitting in front of her mirror i can imagine her right now and she had that powder puff that was kind of like burnt orange or something or just piled with fashion for makeup and it was like a color that was not matching her skin fully because they didn't have all the ranges then you know black women were doing the best they could yes so my mother i could just imagine my of putting on her makeup and she would ask me to go choose her wig and so i would choose wow yes you told marley that you really loved one that had an afro braids and bangs imagine that okay imagine this big i still remember i'm trying to okay get this it was like it was like a curly beautiful afro like big afro right here and then had cornrows down to here from the afro.

20:15Okay. And then a bang. All right, Mom. Woo! Mom was killing me. When she wore that, I thought she looked like, you know, those velvet posters of Queen Sheba and things like that. Yes. With a panther and she's naked and you're whatever. My mother looked like that. She looked so beautiful. I thought, oh, I want her little back coming to my school. Mom was stepping out. Mom was stepping out. So Mom had a great sense of style and my stepfather that had a really good sense of style. I didn't realize it until actually like I got older because he loved a nice pinky ring, which I now have a beautiful turquoise pinky ring.

20:52He kept his nails manicured and long more than my mother. My mother had, you know, worker's fingers. She just didn't play with nails or anything that she wasn't a girly girl in that way. But my dad had beautiful manicured fingernails, pinky ring. He would always wear, because he was a kind of a big guy, you know, the guys who, you know, carried their bellies as their strength, you know? So he's just like, you know, he wore really beautiful suiting, trousers, always high-waisted, a really good shoe, like a floor-sharing shoe, and a nice watch. And they always told me, something about like, I think that's why I always wear a watch, even at this age where most guys just, you know, have a phone.

21:33I think I wear watches because my dad wore watches. And I feel like that's a gentleman. And I always have a ring because I watched my dad do that. I thought that's what men do. And I was gifted before my stepfather passed away. He had a beautiful long black trench coat. And I don't remember him actually wearing it, but it was so beautiful and refined and very slim. And I don't remember him ever being slim, but he kept that in his closet, I think. And I remember he gave it to me before he passed away. I always have to have a long black trench and I think it's because of my stepfather. Wow. Wow.

22:06You've said that you and Alessandro are cut from the same cloth. What about him and his sensibilities and Valentino really resonates with you? I love how maximalistic he is. I love that he has a sense of play and a sense of romance. um when i went to the haute couture show last year i feel like he really shared a bit of his soul because it was actually a very emotional show how he works with textures and history and also his models i love that his models were of every age and every hue and i thought i'm this is he loves women and also he loves men and um he loves for you to sort of be in your own in a dream in a way and a great story.

22:53And I feel like, especially maybe that's what I look for when I go out and when I dress and I'm on red carpets is I think we need to have some pomp and circumstance to counterbalance this world that we live in. I think we need some romance. We need some fantasy. I think the bigger, the better. And it's funny, the moment, even the other night at the fashion trust, I realized I was drawn to anyone who was stepping outside I'm wearing a really huge hat, really dramatic makeup, really bold print. I'm like, yes, more of that, more of that. We need more of that. We have to live in the dream in order for the world to respond to that, to have some flights of fancy.

23:35So I'm drawn to that. Yeah, and you can definitely see that duality of loving fashion, loving beautiful clothes, but also really honoring one's own culture and authenticity. And like you said, Alessandro is a maximalist, but also very Italian and all those like romantic influences. You know, he loves bows. He loves ruffles. He loves, you know, he loves beautiful colors. And even more so, when we went to, when we were designing for the Oscars this year, I remember the first designs came in and I wasn't completely thrilled yet because there was very, it was black and white. It was very austere. I think they were the team.

24:22We're trying to make sure that I sort of fit in with the Oscars. I was like, now you know I'm a house ambassador for Valentino. I want what Valentino does. I said, I think I like, I love a classic Valentino red. And I said, I want, that red for me is the color of love. It is a big heart. I said, I want to be a big heart in the room. Then it came back with designs and sketches for the Oscars. and once we settled on that red blazer and we played with it, it was either going to be a big red bow here or a sash and then Alessandro, you know, sort of like pared it down. But I love it, they edit, you know, they go big first.

25:02There was bows and ruffles and everything. And then they were like, okay, but this is the Oscars. They pared it down. I didn't have to give notes or anything. Pared it down. By the time we got to the final look, I'm like, that's exactly the way I wanted to look. You know, I felt like It was a little bit of it was a little bit of both. It was classic tailoring. It was strong shoulders. It was maximalistic and minimalistic at the same time. How do you do it? I was going to meet you. He's a magician. Yeah, he really is. Yeah. Coleman, I know you've talked about this before, but we I have to hear your story of meeting your husband outside of Walgreens and the meet cute that ensued.

25:44I mean, I've heard this story before, too. It never gets old. Okay, here's this old chestnut. And I'll tell you, I'll preface it by this. I'm realizing more and more why that story keeps resonating and coming back. Because at first, we told that story first in an issue of GQ years ago. And then Graham Norton got wind of it and we told it on Graham Norton. And then suddenly the story has now recirculated again. And I think it's just because it's a tremendous story of hope. Yeah. I think we're really reaching for it because in this digital age, it's tough. And I hear that it's, you know, people are like, oh, it's ghetto out in these streets.

26:26It's rough out in these big streets. I'm like, oh, I've been locked. I've been in something for 20 years. Thank God I'm not out in the street. But it's because, you know, we had this beautiful, I think I'm just a very open person. And I was walking down the street on a Sunday night. it was um my last day of rehearsal before i was going into tech and i thought i wanted to go get i needed a mask i needed to you know get these pores together so again this is 20 years ago 2005 and i'm walking into a walgreens on shattuck avenue in berkeley minding my whole business and out of walgreens comes this beautiful i mean i just know it was a face i've never seen before i've never seen it was like the first time you see it to picasso you're like i don't even know what that is.

27:09Yeah. Why the eye over here? You know, anyway, but you know, but really it was his cheekbones, his skin, his hair, his hair was down his shoulder. And I was like, he had a lip piercing and I was like, who is this? Oh my God. We looked at each other and we walked by and we just like, it was like things slowed down. Really. I was on the phone. I was like, oh my God, what is that? And then I was so stunned. I can't imagine that I actually went all the way in Walgreens. I walked back out. He was standing nearby talking to this girlfriend of his. She was very animated and pissed off about something.

27:43And he was like, uh-huh, uh-huh, and looking over at me. And I was looking over at him, and I was on the phone. I'm like, I need to get off this phone. And so they finished talking. I finally got off the phone, but by the time I get off the phone, they already are walking down Shattuck Avenue. And he keeps turning around, that beautiful long brown hair, and turning around looking at me. And my hand goes up. It just instinctively goes up and does this. It waves to come back. He doesn't come back. They walk off because she's dragging them down the street. I'm stunned. And maybe three days later, I'm online trying to buy a used computer on Craigslist because I had a grant to help out with my writing.

28:18And I could not stop thinking about this interaction for three whole days. I thought, what if I place one of those Craigslist misconnections ads? I wonder if they even work. So I'm reading them. I'm reading all these silly ones. And when I get to the second page, and I remember it's the third from the top, and it says, saw you outside of Walgreens, Berkeley. And I literally jumped up out of my chair. I said, oh, my God, that's him. That's him. And I clicked him like I was scared. I reached out my long finger and clicked on it. And I read the whole caption and said, I'm sorry. I hope this finds you.