Dakota Johnson on Her October Cover, Trolling Friends, and Navigating The Press

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0:52I want to hire a private investigator. Some folks say I'm the best. ABC Tuesdays, TV's hottest PI is back. You sure you're ready to take on a serial killer? It's like a dozen more likely explanations other than serial killer. All right, maybe not a dozen. In Florida, crime has no off-season. I just heard you were shot at today with a rocket launcher. Well missed. R.J. Decker, Tuesdays, 10, 9 central on ABC, next day on Hulu. This is The Run-Through. I'm Chloe Mao, and today I'm speaking with one of Vogue's October cover stars, Dakota Johnson. Dakota, welcome to the show. We were just saying that you arrived a full week ago, and you've been doing back-to-back press, which is really relaxing.

1:37I want to know how this cover shoot was, because I was really, I was talking to Tani about it, and it's fun that Tani did your first cover in 2015, right? What was different about the experience then and now? I felt very calm and I think the set was very calm the first time I was just so nervous and it was so like you know it was very it was it was even doing it now is a huge deal for me but it felt like Tani wanted to access my authenticity and wanted my input and wanted me to be a part of it and I felt like valued and recognized as an artist rather than you know 11 years ago I was like I don't know what I'm doing or who I am.

2:24And Larissa was so calm and quick. Johnny Goodman was the stylist, the legendary, not only legendary Vogue editor, but as we recently calculated, has styled over 200 Vogue covers, which is remarkable. And Larissa Hoffman is a great youngish photographer who I was really excited to work with on this. Yeah. She was so, her energy is so great and she moves really fast, which I appreciate. And it just felt nice that they wanted to, like, I really didn't wear much makeup. I was like in clothes that I felt really good in. I didn't feel like I was trying to be a model because I'm not a model. And that can often feel so awkward and inauthentic for me, but it was just great.

3:11And it was also my makeup artist's birthday that day. Oh, fun. Georgie. And so we, like, celebrated her all day long, and I had her kids come and surprise her. Oh, how fun. Her two daughters, and then I pushed them in the pool. And they had the time of their lives. What cake did you bring for Georgie? I got—what cake did I get for her? I got her champagne, for sure. Flowers. What a delightful celebration. Yeah. I love celebrating people's birthdays. What's a recent birthday gift you've gotten someone that was unexpected?

3:57My best friend Blake turned 42 or something recently, and we had a party at my house, but I called it his 50th. So I had balloons saying Blake's 50th. And mostly my gifts for him are jokes. And I just try to ruin his life all the time. But and sometimes I do get him good gifts. But this year I made him a bust of myself. Oh, wow. I mean, I had it made. I didn't make it. How did you have that made? Is that like an Etsy Google? Yeah. Wow. Yeah. Got that Etsy seller must have been like, huh, didn't see this one coming. Yeah. But it's also like just not my name, but it's just a bust of me. it's really funny and then i i also made like pins of him making stupid face like i just have horrible photos of him in my phone so i made t-shirts i made pins there was good march just trying to like humiliate him to high heaven what's a recent gift you've gotten that you've loved um or that knocked your socks off i recently did a movie in italy with alice roar walker She directed it.

5:05And it was me and Jesse Buckley and Saoirse Ronan. And she gave us these like painted, these little paintings by this really special artist from an island that were like representative of our characters in the movie. And it's just my favorite thing. Oh, that's lovely. That was Three Incestuous Sisters. Yeah. You filmed it in Rome? In Rome and Stromboli. Oh, my God. Yeah. I remember interviewing Jesse Buckley after The Lost Daughter, and she told me how much fun you guys all had after hours. And now there's a lot of singing and rosé. Yes. Was that the case with this movie also? Yeah. There was not a lot of rosé.

5:51We were kind of on like a martini kick on this movie. Yeah, Stromboli's not really saying rosé in the same way. It's more like a, like, well, there is a lot of natural wine involved. And then there's like, it would be like a martini night or a Negroni night. Okay, so there would be cocktail directive. Yeah. Was there any singing? Jessie's always singing, and it's the best thing in the world. And it's like, no one else would dare sing around her because she's so brilliant, you know? so so she was just singing sometimes sometimes we'd like bust out into but it wasn't like after the lost daughter nights on set it would because that would be like someone had a guitar and it'd be like a sing song but this was more just sort of impromptu broadway moments when does that movie come out do we know yet next year okay sometime you would go over to dinner at Alessandro Michele's house when you were filming in Rome, and you guys have been friends for a long time.

6:55What is your favorite thing he cooks for you? I don't eat fish. Okay. And fish is a thing everywhere. People love it, and I just don't. And so it's always like this really yummy kind of breaded chicken and then like roast potatoes and green beans and, you know, just like simple, healthy, homemade Italian. I remember when we published his house in Rome, and it was just the entire Vogue team like gasped at the same time when they saw those pictures. What did you guys first connect over? How did you first meet? We met, I think, at the Gucci show like during Fashion Week one year. I think I must have been 24 maybe.

7:41Okay. Or 25. And he was still obviously designer at Gucci. He was just starting. Okay. He was just starting. So then we just, like, became friends and started spending more time together. And then I had a contract with them for, like, 10 years. And then he went to Valentino and I followed. I love to see when people follow. I will be with him for the rest of my life. He's, like, truly one of the closest people in my life. Aw, that's so nice. Yeah. Yeah. There's like, I think there's people that you meet that you have a working relationship with and a collaborative relationship. But when you have the gift and the magic of really seeing each other, and it is a genuine safe space where you can have real conversations, you can talk about the worries and the pain and the magic and the secrets, you know, and you know that that person can keep them for you.

8:36And then you also know that you can like collaborate and work together. It's so rare. It's so rare. What? Are you going to the Valentina show in Paris? I'm not. I can't go because I'm hosting SNL. Oh, my God. Right. Which is right around your birthday. It is literally my birthday. Oh, it's actually on your birthday. It is my birthday. Well, I'm hosting on the 3rd and my birthday is the 4th. Okay. So in the middle of the show, it'll turn into my birthday. Oh, my God. To turn your birthday on SNL is really the way to maximize. I'm so excited. That's the best gift I've been given. Oh, my gosh. I love SNL more than anything.

9:15Yes, I know. I remember when you hosted SNL, but then I was reading how much you love SNL. Did you grow up watching SNL? Is there like a beloved era that you think back to or skits in particular? I mean, I've watched since I was allowed to, well, I was, I was allowed to, I watched when my brothers were watching, which was like, you know, Chris Farley and Adam Sandler. And I there's but there's eras because I fell in love with it. So I'd go back and I've watched everything. So this will be your second time hosting or third? Third. So you're over halfway to the half. What's it called? Five timer club.

9:52I'm on my way. That's very exciting. Fingers crossed. My mother's like one of the only five timers who is always available. And so they're always bringing her in. But they're very protective of those jackets. Yes. They cannot leave the studio. I know. It's really sad. Yeah. Wait, who is your mom? Candice Bergen. What the fuck? We talked about this because I have spent a funeral with your mother recently. And you guys had like the best time. Yeah, we had a really good time together. Oh my God. She was wearing like great black gloves and yes. Wait, we did talk about this. Yeah. Okay, that all makes sense.

10:34Damn cool mom. She is the most available five-timer. Yeah. I mean, I would be, too, if I were her. Yeah, she's like, I never have anything happening at 10 p.m. on a Saturday. Maybe she'll come on my show. Oh, my God. How cool. Yeah. And actually, my mother was reminding me that when I was little, because you're a bit younger than me, your dad lived on our street on Hazen off Coldwater. Oh, on, like, Heather Road. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I remember that house. Wow. But you didn't really grow up going to school in L.A. You were sort of a peripatetic youth. Not until I was like 11. I went to school in L.A.

11:15when I was 11 for the first time. Would you if you had kids and you were moving around, would you move them in that way or like did you enjoy that experience or do you feel like that's an argument for sticking post in the ground? I think it's kind of, it depends on the family, depends on who your parents are and how they raise you. Because I'm so grateful for everywhere I lived, and I'm so grateful for all the different kinds of people I met. And like, I, you know, made friends all over the world. And we traveled with a tutor, and then we'd go to museums. So it was kind of a very immersive way of learning.

11:53But then when I went to a real school, my first real year of school was 10 years old, fourth grade in San Francisco because my dad lived there. And then I did really well because I had like structure for the first time. And then I moved back to L.A. to live with my mom. And I, everything just, I like couldn't take tests. I didn't understand standardized testing and like testing in and out of schools. Like I never learned the, I didn't have the foundational skills of time management and testing and like ABC or whatever. And I just. You had other skills. I had other skills. And I, and I value them so much more.

12:34Yeah. So I think if for me, like, yeah, I'd bring my kids around if I knew they were getting a rounded education and also, like, felt extremely loved and supportive and also respectful of all of humankind and curious. And you I actually I find now because I used to go to the set of Murphy Brown all the time and I loved it. And now when my kids come to work with me, it's so exciting for them. And also it's it's very helpful because then when I'm always leaving to go to work, they have a reference for what it is. Yeah. But I wonder, was there ever outings on set that were more exciting than others?

13:19Like, were there sets you went to when you were a kid that stand out in your memory? I think we visited the Spy Kids set. Oh, that's fun. When my sister was really little and she was obsessed with Spy Kids and I was a little bit, like, too cool at that time. But she was— I actually watched Spy Kids for the first time this summer. It's a great movie. It's a classic. Yeah. It's a great movie. So fun. I was a little shaken, though, because I watched it with our babysitter who's in her early 20s. And she was like, yeah, this is what Antonio Banderas is famous for. I was like, oh, wow. Hello? For 25-year-olds, this may be the case.

13:53Excuse me? I mean, if you grew up watching Spy Kids, she was like, this is how I first learned who he was. This is what makes him important to me. I mean, I do hear people all the time who are like, oh, your mom's Cansperian. Miss Congeniality. I'm like, oh. Dagger to her heart. It's not. Oh, my God. It's not like it's not Zorro. It's not Desperado, obviously. No. Or Evita. Or Evita. Or Shrek. Oh, that's so true. Forgot about Shrek. Yeah. Shrek was a fun one. Also, my sister was obsessed with Shrek. I was really into the set of Desperado. Your sister is your half-sister. With my mom and Antonio.

14:30Yes. Yeah. But I was really into the Desperado set. And we were living in Mexico City at the time. Or, like, just outside of Mexico City. and I would like dye my hair in the makeup trailer, in the hair and makeup trailer. Oh, wow. I would dye it pink. It was like temporary, but that's... At what age? I loved it. I think I was 12. Oh, wow. Yeah.

14:57I'm very interested in the fact that you are a natural blonde who tends to go brunette, which is typically not the direction people take. Do people treat you differently if you're blonde or brunette? I treat myself differently. Interesting. It's so weird. I don't identify as a blonde. Okay. And I was like a toehead. I was like blonde, blonde, blonde as a kid. White blonde hair. And then it kind of got like dirty blonde. And I feel like you come from a line of two of the most famous blondes we know. Yeah. So. I don't know if they're my real parents. Well, I meant Tippi Hedren. Oh, right. Yeah, she's definitely my grandma.

15:37Yeah. She is. But, yeah, I don't, I just don't, I can do it. Like, I can pull it off, but I don't feel like that's me. Do you, what's the bang management situation? Well, I don't know if you can tell right now, but I recently cut them myself. Much to Mark's chagrin. Wow. Yeah. That's impressive. Did I do a good job? You did do a good job. They're a little lopsided. One side's a bit longer. But we'll fix it later. Yeah, it's true. How often does that happen? Sometimes if I've had a cocktail, I'm like, this is a good idea. And then other times it's telling of having some sort of existential crisis.

16:24Like I have to do something tactile to myself that's like cutting my bangs normally. But it was before I was going on this press tour and I was kind of like, I haven't been very public and I'm a little like, it's hard to be under a microscope and scrutinized and like everything is watched and now everyone is a spy and everyone is the press. Oh my God. And I just was like. I mean, I was, I, it was fashion week this week. It was also the beginning of school. I was, I was frenetic this week. I was racing around. usually fashion shows start 20 to 30 minutes late as you know the Carolina Herrera show they said in small letters on the bottom will start promptly at 6 I got there at 6 07 they were texting me we're starting the show the security guard wouldn't let me cut through into Lincoln Center so I climbed underneath a barricade yeah and of course someone filmed that and it got served to a lot of people's algorithms and it was a reminder that I think that's rad people are people are always looking around.

17:29And I wonder, does that affect your calculus when you like go out to dinner with someone? Can you ever go out to dinner with any gentleman and people not write about it? No. But do you still do it? Do you not care? Or you're like, why don't we have dinner somewhere there? I don't know. I'll go out. Even if I go to like dinner with my manager or my lawyer, it's like seen with mystery. It's just like, I don't. Yeah. I also don't care. Well, that's good. Sure. Yeah. Do you ever feel the desire to want to correct something that people are saying? I think it's just kind of futile. People are going to believe what they want to believe.

18:06And I don't have the energy to fight for that. I would much rather focus on other things in my life. And I don't, I don't, I just kind of, every day there's something on the internet that's ridiculous and true or not true. And I don't care. Like, get a life. People are very online and very don't have a life. I wonder, our other cover star, one of our other cover stars, Mikey Madison, who's in The Social Reckoning. Have you seen it yet? I haven't. One of your first adult role was very memorable, Justin Timberlake's girlfriend in Social Network. How has your relationship to social media changed since that movie?

18:53Or since I feel like that was the beginning of people using. That was. It was the beginning of people using. People using drugs. Are you using the internet? Maybe when I was in my younger 20s had like a moment of being on social media just for fun and laughs. Because I love a clever thing. Anything clever. I'm like, yeah, cool. um but i i don't i just don't fuck with it and like i don't i'll i'll sometimes look at like because with the book our book club is on instagram right now we might have a new update with that recently i mean coming up but i i so there's some things that i have to do and for work where i like have to do whatever but i don't really i feel really uncomfortable with the like constant documenting of people's lives.

19:50Yeah. Well, so you can't comment. It's not a safe space. Anything you comment, people are taking. I did comment on Jen Lawrence's post recently. Did you see that? I saw that you called her a slut, which I love for both of you. But also, do you see the same thing happen to her? That she made a joke about, someone said about Emma Stone, or about Jen, who is this person? And she said, someone with one less Oscar than Emma Stone. Yeah. People were upset about that. I think Jen and I could be the ultimate internet trolls if, like, we, A, had the time and B, the interest. But I was—it was only because she was—her video was so earnest about, like, people being nice to her.

20:35Oh, right. It was her return to Instagram. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I guess you're going back. I have a really amazing video of her walking down the street and she was like, oh, I'm walking by her house. And it was I was living in New York filming a movie. And so I like opened the top floor window and just was like, slut. And I filmed it and it was so funny. She was just like.

21:05Hopefully that'll end up on the Internet one day. How else have you trolled someone recently? My little brother. trolled him what does that look like i told him to stop wearing flip-flops that's that's that's a public service it really is gentlemen shouldn't be wearing flip-flops ever especially these like i'm sorry but like gen z college dudes your feet are gross yeah your toes are gross. You're smelly. You're like always clammy. Put your feet away. Yeah. Wear some shoes. Be a man. There you go. Come on. I don't want to see rainbow flip-flops. I know. Deacon. Did he take your advice? No. Well, he might now.

21:53No. And then I saw him and like a bunch of his friends. I was visiting my dad and a bunch of them walked in and they're all wearing rainbow flip-flops oh wow and i was just like get out get right on out of here out of the house wow okay what's your stance on flip-flops in new york city i don't know for some reason it's chic on women yeah the row helped out because i think also you know that all of those women are walking right into their house and taking them off and washing their feet it's so true Deacon's not doing that. Antibacterial soap. It's true. I do in the summer, if I'm wearing flip-flops, put my feet right in the bath.

22:33Yeah. You must. Yeah. Although, I mean, Lloyd is coming in after doing God knows what in the park. Yeah, what do you do about that? Nothing. And it's gross. He's like on my pillow. It's disgusting. That would freak me out. I know. But what? I mean, I do wash his feet when it's muddy or snowy, but. But what about all the like urine? Oh, no, it's gross. Also, he's like peeing on himself. And then he's just like. Chloe, this is not good. This is not good. You got to get those. When I lived here and I had my dog Zeppelin, I would have those like disinfecting paw wipes. So I know, I know. We should do that more.

23:09Because I was so freaked out about it. We have this little contraption that my mother-in-law sent me from Shark Tank, which looks like a little mini blender. But you put their foot in and like shake it around and it cleans off. Because the salt really hurts their paws, but Lloyd won't wear the booties. And so I always feel bad when he's sort of limping after the snow. What's Tokyo up to? Tokyo. Well, I actually also adopted another dog. And now his name's Bruce. Oh, my mother's dog's name is Bruce. Really? Yes. Yes, he's Lloyd's brother. Like this. Bruce is a nightmare. My Bruce is a sweet angel.

23:48He was tied up in a trailer park. I don't really know what breed he is. He looks kind of like a bear and a terrier. How big is he? He's medium-sized. He has a big head. Wow. How do him and Tokyo get along? They are obsessed with each other. Wow. Who's the boss? Tokyo. Okay. Yeah. She's so chic, and she's so, like, she'll just, like, swat him in the face. She has real flair. Yeah. She's a supermodel. Yeah. She's really special. I know. I would love her to be in Dogue. Oh, yeah. Her and Bruce. Okay.

24:29I want to hear if you have any clothes from your mom or your grandmother that you wear. I have clothes from my mom. I have a pair of Chanel pants that she, they're probably from the 90s, that she cut the bottoms off. Oh, wow. And so they're like a little bit frayed on the bottoms. And my sister and I just like try to get them from each other all the time. and my sister Stella. Wow, that's a very chic sisterhood of the traveling Chanel pants. Yeah, they're so great. They're black. They're like, have these frayed sort of seams at the top. Wow. And then the bottoms she cut. And they're so good. They're just like the perfect weird black trouser.

25:11Is there any like Hitchcock era? I wish. My grandma's body is like unbelievably tiny. Interesting. And she is extremely tiny. Interesting. We have the, like, Hitchcock green suit, but it's kind of on display in her, like, little, there's this funny museum area of her preserve where it's, like, the birds memorabilia and Marnie memorabilia. Wow. Mm-hmm. Interesting. Did Edith Head do both of those? Okay. Wow. That's fun. Yeah. Yeah, it's beautiful. I mean, she has, there's like a theater trailer of loads of her stuff. And she still, like, she wears the most wild outfits right now. I love that for her.

25:55She loves to get dressed and get ready every day. I think that's very important. And it takes like four and a half hours. Oh, wow. And then she just hangs out at home. I respect that. I liked when people really would dress up during COVID lockdown and just like committed to it. That was not me. No, nor I. but respectful to others who it was. Respect, yeah. I want to know about how when your mom found you smoking cigarettes, she gave you an ashtray. Because actually my mom and I were talking about this recently because my son is just a sort of creepo provocateur and just wants to mess with me. And so anything...

26:40How old is he? He's six. I was like, surely he's 17. I mean, I'm waiting for that period. But anything I tell him not to do, it's a green light. And my mom was reminding me that when I was in high school, I would invite people over. And she sort of knew we were drinking, but she was happier we were in her apartment than, you know, at some creepy bar on Second Avenue where we also were. Yeah. What was the parental approach? It was that. It was that. It was like better that you're at the house. I would have people over a lot as a teen. But she smokes. She still smokes. Oh, interesting. So I think she was just like, it's hypocritical.

27:21It's a harder like stand-on. Yeah, if I'm like, you can't smoke. We would like smoke cigarettes together. Oh, that's nice. Yeah, it was a different time. Do you still do that together? I don't smoke cigarettes. Oh, okay. Yeah. Was it hard to quit cigarettes? I quit when I was 26. So I realize quit cigarettes makes me sound very old. Quit smoking. Did I say quit cigarettes as well? And then did I repeat that? Yeah, I quit cigarettes when I was 26.

28:00Were you hypnotized? No, I just kind of like went off it. I really don't like smelling like cigarettes. This is my problem. I'm a scent-oriented person, and I like to be clean and feel clean, and it gets stuck in my hair, and I hate it. I am not a very clean-oriented person. I like to wash my hair as little as possible, and so if I'm somewhere where people are smoking, I cannot get it out of my hair. On Saturday night, I was at a party, and I would have loved to stay, but everyone was smoking. I was like, this is not for me. Yeah, it's tough. And then, like, in the morning, you smell that. Yes, your whole bed smells.